Re: Vanish

#161
Sepplord wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:29 pm
dirtyblade wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:57 am
How was I complaining... it was a suggestion...
Ok, I play a stealther and I am really, really starting to hate Vanish...

Hardly anyone specced Vanish on live servers, not even in the old days. But here, almost 90% of assassins spec it and its starting to get fecking frustrating.
Sounded like a complaint to me. If that was a misinterpretation i am sorry, but it didn't sound as if you were making a simple suggestion that was not based on a complaint.

I completely agree on vanish being frustrating....just as almost killing a sorc to die moc-lifetapping, almost killing a minstrel to get SOSed on (sometimes even getting kitekilled then instead of simply running away), stunning a friar just to die on RA-proccs, having a good fight and getting added, etc...
I can't think of a really satisfying way to lose a fight in DAoC (outside of 15minute long 8vs8s that just leave everyone sweating and with a DAMN THAT WAS FUN grin, no matter the otucome). An enemy using an RA is never satisfying unless they misplayed...and a misplayed vanish is one of the most satisfying thing there is. Beating up an assassin that is disarmed and silenced? Doesn't get much better than that for most people...

What separates Vanish from several I-Win RAs is that it doesn't kill your opponent, it helps ZERO concerning fighting power. And to top it off people can use a potion to counter it's effectivity. Which other RA can be countered by simply throwing gold at it?
Counter it??? you have 250 units range to detect the Assassin on a speed thats close to caster speed and its not until after the initial 3 seconds where they got the imba stealth
they should atleast have to spec for second Vanish to get the imba stealth first 3 seconds. Like they scaled Purge

Re: Vanish

#162
Lillebror wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:34 pm
Tillbeast wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:03 pm
Easy replace vanish with SoS. Assassins need an escape tool. If forcing assassins to spend 15 points on vanish then force other to spend 15 points on there escape tools too.

Vanish is fine as it is, it does exactly what it was designed to do. Yes even being a spiteful git is also in the abilities description, the amount of times I whacked a passing high rr solo visible tank with a diseased weapon and then vanishing.

Assassins need a way of getting out of an area as they lack the sustained dps of a visible dpser nor have the survivability of any armour beyond leather.
If any tool at all, it should be an speed burst like Hunter and Ranger could use points to spec for.
Yes but the hunter/ranger speed burst is not great and its not an escape tool, its a tool to chase down fleeing prey. Also you are just going to get CC'd. Seriosly give assassins a solo non group version of SoS at less cost than what the full SoS costs so at least range dps classes have a chance of killing them.

Also Lillebror I don't know what class you play but I bet it has a 5 point ra that is designed for that class. More chances are is that RA will have a bigger effect on a battle, will earn both you and your realm mates (even ones not in your group) more rps than what vanish does and all for the cost of a 5 point ra...all vanish does is save an assassins ass and prevents someone getting rp...which is the whine about vanish....not get my rp!!!
Last edited by Tillbeast on Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Vanish

#163
Tillbeast wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:47 pm
Lillebror wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:34 pm
Tillbeast wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:03 pm
Easy replace vanish with SoS. Assassins need an escape tool. If forcing assassins to spend 15 points on vanish then force other to spend 15 points on there escape tools too.

Vanish is fine as it is, it does exactly what it was designed to do. Yes even being a spiteful git is also in the abilities description, the amount of times I whacked a passing high rr solo visible tank with a diseased weapon and then vanishing.

Assassins need a way of getting out of an area as they lack the sustained dps of a visible dpser nor have the survivability of any armour beyond leather.
If any tool at all, it should be an speed burst like Hunter and Ranger could use points to spec for.
Yes but the hunter/ranger speed burst is not great and its not an escape tool, its a tool to chase down fleeing prey. Also you are just going to get CC'd. Seriosly give assassins and archers a solo non group version of SoS at less cost than what the full SoS costs so at least range dps classes have a chance of killing them.
Keep your Vanish, but Vanish 1 should not have the IMBA super stealth first 3 seconds. If your willing to invest 10 points to not run back or not give opponents rps. Im fine with that

Re: Vanish

#164
Lillebror wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:56 pm
Tillbeast wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:47 pm
Lillebror wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:34 pm


If any tool at all, it should be an speed burst like Hunter and Ranger could use points to spec for.
Yes but the hunter/ranger speed burst is not great and its not an escape tool, its a tool to chase down fleeing prey. Also you are just going to get CC'd. Seriosly give assassins and archers a solo non group version of SoS at less cost than what the full SoS costs so at least range dps classes have a chance of killing them.
Keep your Vanish, but Vanish 1 should not have the IMBA super stealth first 3 seconds. If your willing to invest 10 points to not run back or not give opponents rps. Im fine with that
Then all other 5 points speciality points should cost 10....far worse and more effective 5 pt ras than vanish...if that bd wants to earn shed load of rps make twf only snare at 5 points...if he wants damage make him pay 10...you could do this for every other class

Re: Vanish

#165
as a reminder, stealthlore pots do not give you 250detection range, they give you ADDITIONAL detection range...otherwise they wouldn't be used by assassins at all

My other points have been layed out by tillbeast pretty well

Re: Vanish

#166
Sepplord wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:05 pm
as a reminder, stealthlore pots do not give you 250detection range, they give you ADDITIONAL detection range...otherwise they wouldn't be used by assassins at all

My other points have been layed out by tillbeast pretty well
There is only 2 classes that will manage to find you on a regular basis even with additional detection range. An Archers see you tiny bit better than a visual

3 seconds with 144% speed (opponent still on max sprint speed)

Your either a Assassin or a lucky visual if you find the vanished guy

Re: Vanish

#167
Lillebror wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:13 pm
Sepplord wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:05 pm
as a reminder, stealthlore pots do not give you 250detection range, they give you ADDITIONAL detection range...otherwise they wouldn't be used by assassins at all

My other points have been layed out by tillbeast pretty well
There is only 2 classes that will manage to find you on a regular basis even with additional detection range. An Archers see you tiny bit better than a visual

3 seconds with 144% speed (opponent still on max sprint speed)

Your either a Assassin or a lucky visual if you find the vanished guy
why would there be a single class at all that not only reliably nullifies my 5point realmability but only nullfies the beneficial parts (i stay disarmed when someone attacks me after vanishing) simply by throwing gold into the fight?
Which other RA is reliably nullifying by using a potion on a specific class (and semi-reliably on all other classes)?

Re: Vanish

#168
Sepplord wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:22 pm
Lillebror wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:13 pm
Sepplord wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:05 pm
as a reminder, stealthlore pots do not give you 250detection range, they give you ADDITIONAL detection range...otherwise they wouldn't be used by assassins at all

My other points have been layed out by tillbeast pretty well
There is only 2 classes that will manage to find you on a regular basis even with additional detection range. An Archers see you tiny bit better than a visual

3 seconds with 144% speed (opponent still on max sprint speed)

Your either a Assassin or a lucky visual if you find the vanished guy
why would there be a single class at all that not only reliably nullifies my 5point realmability but only nullfies the beneficial parts (i stay disarmed when someone attacks me after vanishing) simply by throwing gold into the fight?
Which other RA is reliably nullifying by using a potion on a specific class (and semi-reliably on all other classes)?
He cant find you the first 3 seconds even with stealthlore you move with 144% speed if not health snared. (its like Red October sub movie, he gotta be lucky to find you, he need to guess correct direction to have a chance. But you should be forced to spec into Vanish 2 to get that stealth pretection imo.
But Its even worse. for all stealth classes you can use coin to nullify a whole skill three...

Killing a Vanished Assassin feels like killing a Champion, BD, Thane XX insert hard target. I can be stealth zerged for a while if i manage to get thouse kills ^^

Re: Vanish

#169
You said that 2classes can regularly find a vanished target....i commented on it and now you backpedal again...

repeating that you think assassins should have to pay10 for the current effect doesn't add weight to statement. Lay out why exactly it is a problem at 5points but not at 10points? Compare it to others 5/10points RAs and how they benefit the user and change the outcomes of a fight


Would people be happier if, instead of vanishing, the assassin just wins the fight and kills its target if it was a 1vs1?
It would not let assassins escape adds anymore, and necros/friars/etc... would get attacked far less just to be vanished on.


So far i am convinced that the only problem with vanish is a psychological one. When an assassin vanishes you immediatly think "i was winning, i got cheated out of my win" while someone using ST/TWF/SOS/AM/whatever and turns around the fight "won legit". If people would go "wooh, good that assassins only have a RA that lets them run instead of turning the fight around and killing me" there wouldn't be a discussion about vanish at all

Re: Vanish

#170
Sepplord wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:22 pm
Lillebror wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:13 pm
Sepplord wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:05 pm
as a reminder, stealthlore pots do not give you 250detection range, they give you ADDITIONAL detection range...otherwise they wouldn't be used by assassins at all

My other points have been layed out by tillbeast pretty well
There is only 2 classes that will manage to find you on a regular basis even with additional detection range. An Archers see you tiny bit better than a visual

3 seconds with 144% speed (opponent still on max sprint speed)

Your either a Assassin or a lucky visual if you find the vanished guy
why would there be a single class at all that not only reliably nullifies my 5point realmability but only nullfies the beneficial parts (i stay disarmed when someone attacks me after vanishing) simply by throwing gold into the fight?
Which other RA is reliably nullifying by using a potion on a specific class (and semi-reliably on all other classes)?
vanish exactly. everytime you hit some active ras, assassins vanish. which nullifies far more than 5 point vanish for assassins that get cought.
its still kind of unfair since these pots cost alot of money if you dont farm claws... which is not possible as a solo player.