[Q2 2020] Minstrel / Pet Charm

#1
This change is part of a series of changes: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewto ... =2&p=99782

The exact details are still up in the air on this one and it's likely that this will see a couple tests. The goal is to remove the macro requirement, thereby lowering the bar to entry, and also to lower the ceiling as well.

The only thing so far that is definitely happening is that charm will be able to run concurrently with all other pulse spells. This will remove the need for macros.

As for the other part of the change, we're still discussing it and are not entirely sure yet on how exactly to best achieve the goal. Possible options include making charm have a cast time and be uninterruptible, adding a cooldown and similar things.
In general, our goal here for lowering the ceiling would be that high level pets should have some downside (or be straight up impossible) and that there should also be some counter to the CC removal, not an easy counter but some actual counter with coordination.


EDIT: Exact changes below

1) Charm pulses can now run concurrently with other pulse spells, in practice this means minstrels can run speed or ablative or flute mezz while having an active pet without having to spam charm in-between
2) Minstrel charm spells will receive a 6 second cooldown
3) Manually releasing a pulse charmed pet (e. g. via the Release button on the pet window) will now also cancel the charm pulse. This also applies to mentalists.

While working on 3, the way pulse charmed pet releasing works, a bug was found that could sometimes lead to inconsistent behavior of the pet afterwards. Technically the pet release for pulse charmed pets is now only done via expiring the charm effect and no longer via expiring the charm effect as well as also explicitly releasing it, due to some timing issues the latter could sometimes lead to unexpected behavior.

Re: [Q2 2020] Minstrel / Pet Charm

#3
Have it co-exist like sorc charm?

Have the mechanics work like menta charm?
(This also lowers the max pet level, doesn't entirely remove the cc breaks, but there should not be a situation where menta is better then minst in this regard.)

There is already a counter to the CC removal, it just needs co-ordination to pull of,
but if the minst got purge up, the counter is nullified.

Re: [Q2 2020] Minstrel / Pet Charm

#6
joy wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:04 pm
There is already a counter to the CC removal, it just needs co-ordination to pull of,
but if the minst got purge up, the counter is nullified.
Exactly. It requires a high amount of coordination for an effect that's easily countered by 1-button. There's no upside to this bad system.

Pets simply shouldn't lose CC when they're released, minstrel or otherwise. They ought to be CCable, and groupmates work with you in breaking the effect (drop pet, groupmate must attack, OR groupmate must cast demezz). The mechanics of these released pets is good otherwise. It introduces a desirable element to both minstrels and mentalists being able to break their own and groupmates mezzes and roots.

I also favor the idea of the minstrel charm being like mentalists (largely fire and forget). This will greatly increase the classes playability both from a competitive and enjoyment perspective. I like them both having access to unique, high level pets, too.

Re: [Q2 2020] Minstrel / Pet Charm

#7
I agree. Mentalist and Minstrels should not lose their ability to break CC. Fire and forget seems like a nice approach, and limiting high high of a mob they can charm would be useful.

I fear devs may be breaking a very important class that has been out since the launch of DAOC if minstrels lose their ability to break charm.

Do minstrels need a nerf? Sure. Nerf how high of a pet they can get. Leave the class as is however. The mechanics. They also dont need to be easier to play. Let player skill determine how GOOD a minstrel is, as opposed to making things easier for a majority, while nerfing those who are exceptionally skilled.
- Skreemz <Federation of Albion> RR8L1 Non-SOS Tankstrel Minstrel -

Re: [Q2 2020] Minstrel / Pet Charm

#9
Arkiluth wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:21 pm
I agree. Mentalist and Minstrels should not lose their ability to break CC. Fire and forget seems like a nice approach, and limiting high high of a mob they can charm would be useful.

I fear devs may be breaking a very important class that has been out since the launch of DAOC if minstrels lose their ability to break charm.

Do minstrels need a nerf? Sure. Nerf how high of a pet they can get. Leave the class as is however. The mechanics. They also dont need to be easier to play. Let player skill determine how GOOD a minstrel is, as opposed to making things easier for a majority, while nerfing those who are exceptionally skilled.
Which do you mean? There are two break-CC mechanics in place, and they are separate.

1) Release pet--loses all CC automatically (requires no ability, timing, etc. No downside)
2) Release pet--attack owner and break owner's CC. Has a downside (must be close to you, will hurt you)

I'm all for #2. But I think #1 needs to be overhauled. Could introduce cast timer, charm immunity, or simply eliminate it losing CC on itself automatically.

Re: [Q2 2020] Minstrel / Pet Charm

#10
Having the freedom to alt tab or walk away from the computer as a Minstrel is a really nice idea but DO NOT touch the pet mechanics. It already does not function as it does on live, on live you can charm even if you are stunned or mezzed and here you cannot. If Minstrel's cannot release their pet to cleanse cc from themselves or have some other wonky mechanic you may as well buff sorc speed instead as the 2nd best alb class just became Reaver tier.

Red pets are an essential part of the minstrel class, the others die way too easy and there's no way to fully buff it since you nerfed charges. Purple pets are dumb, no debate needed there.