Archers - Phoenix Freeshard

I've seen you have added many features from live servers to the characters on Phoenix. But I would like to know what was your thoughts on Archers when your made the settings.

What was the reason for removing Camouflage?

What was the reason for adding Physical Defense to all the classes that has it on live except for the Archers here?

From the rock paper scissors perspective, what is paper to my scissors with the increased block values, non penetrative caster Bladeturn and Assassins increased stealth detection without counters?

What was the reason for not just implementing the new Archery system?

These question are not meant to be snide. To get a better understanding of your thoughts on the matter. I would like to hear from you.

Mon 6 May 2019 3:59 PM by cere2

These guys can't even fix a broken ass stealth detection range in 3 months.
Don't expect much as an archer other than to leech rps from other fights or donate.
Or, join alb scout/inf/mini stealth zerg groups and profit.
No one saw that one coming....

Mon 6 May 2019 4:21 PM by vxr

Once upon a time I was dropped by an archer. Was like "whoaa, archers aren't that bad". I scrolled up to look through the damage and noticed I was getting shot by 4 different archers. Archers are definitely at the bottom of the food chain.

Mon 6 May 2019 5:09 PM by stinsfire

I just leveled my hunter to 50 and the only time I am having fun is when I group up with 3 three other hunters from my guild and we position well and shoot targets from different directions.

Devs just don't care about archers, especially hunters.

Sry my post is unproductive here, but I have written numerous pages on hunters and archers and what I think should be changed without ever getting a reaction from any dev. If you add up all the hunter threads there is probably 120 pages of complaints, whining, analysis and ideas for fixing them.

Devs have ignored these topics for 3 months now. They were kinda active in one archer thread, said they are looking into changes, stopped responding to hunter threads and never gave an update, even if directly asked.

Tue 7 May 2019 5:29 AM by dbeattie71

cere2 wrote: ↑
Mon 6 May 2019 3:59 PM
These guys can't even fix a broken ass stealth detection range in 3 months.
Don't expect much as an archer other than to leech rps from other fights or donate.
Or, join alb scout/inf/mini stealth zerg groups and profit.
No one saw that one coming....

You should cancel your subscription and don’t give them another dime.

Tue 7 May 2019 5:50 AM by Quathan

Please keep the negative comments on the down low.. Really want developers to answer these questions, so I/we later can make a suggestion thread that could give us all a solution.

Tue 7 May 2019 8:01 AM by Druth

The trick is boosting archers, without increasing the stealth population.

Which kinda means a boost to archers can only come at the cost of assassins (and to some extend minstrels...).
And that would enrage that part of the population.

Tue 7 May 2019 8:48 AM by Druth

One major issue though, is permasprint.
This hits archers more than any other class, because targets are running out of range to fast.

When I played hunter (was around ToA early NF), my solo targets had 2 choices, fight me or find cover. In open area they were dead if they tried to run.

Imo the game should have blue endo pots max (as it has), no Long Wind, and Tireless should only work on reducing style endo usage (and make enable it to lvl 5).
That way permasprint would stop being the norm, which to my knowledge was only the norm in very few groups in classic daoc.

Tue 7 May 2019 12:49 PM by dbeattie71

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 8:48 AM
One major issue though, is permasprint.
This hits archers more than any other class, because targets are running out of range to fast.

When I played hunter (was around ToA early NF), my solo targets had 2 choices, fight me or find cover. In open area they were dead if they tried to run.

Imo the game should have blue endo pots max (as it has), no Long Wind, and Tireless should only work on reducing style endo usage (and make enable it to lvl 5).
That way permasprint would stop being the norm, which to my knowledge was only the norm in very few groups in classic daoc.

That would put a dagger in the hib population.

Tue 7 May 2019 12:56 PM by Druth

dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 12:49 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 8:48 AM
One major issue though, is permasprint.
This hits archers more than any other class, because targets are running out of range to fast.

When I played hunter (was around ToA early NF), my solo targets had 2 choices, fight me or find cover. In open area they were dead if they tried to run.

Imo the game should have blue endo pots max (as it has), no Long Wind, and Tireless should only work on reducing style endo usage (and make enable it to lvl 5).
That way permasprint would stop being the norm, which to my knowledge was only the norm in very few groups in classic daoc.

That would put a dagger in the hib population.

42 regrowth and bards provide permasprint, albs would suffer the most, as they'd have to bring a paladin which currently doesn't have a spot in normal groups.
But you have a valid point, you'd have to look at realm balance before making such a change.

I was theorizing... and permasprint as the norm really baffles me. Imo, sprint should be a combat thing, not an automated response when moving.

Tue 7 May 2019 12:59 PM by dbeattie71

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 12:56 PM
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 12:49 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 8:48 AM
One major issue though, is permasprint.
This hits archers more than any other class, because targets are running out of range to fast.

When I played hunter (was around ToA early NF), my solo targets had 2 choices, fight me or find cover. In open area they were dead if they tried to run.

Imo the game should have blue endo pots max (as it has), no Long Wind, and Tireless should only work on reducing style endo usage (and make enable it to lvl 5).
That way permasprint would stop being the norm, which to my knowledge was only the norm in very few groups in classic daoc.

That would put a dagger in the hib population.

42 regrowth and bards provide permasprint, albs would suffer the most, as they'd have to bring a paladin which currently doesn't have a spot in normal groups.
But you have a valid point, you'd have to look at realm balance before making such a change.

I was theorizing... and permasprint as the norm really baffles me. Imo, sprint should be a combat thing, not an automated response when moving.

You’re correct though, everyone can easily perma sprint out of range usually.

Tue 7 May 2019 1:51 PM by cere2

dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 5:29 AM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Mon 6 May 2019 3:59 PM
These guys can't even fix a broken ass stealth detection range in 3 months.
Don't expect much as an archer other than to leech rps from other fights or donate.
Or, join alb scout/inf/mini stealth zerg groups and profit.
No one saw that one coming....

You should cancel your subscription and don’t give them another dime.

Truth hurts right? I haven't played them in quite some time. I know it's a free-shard.
But free-shards die too, Uthgard pretty good example I would say.
Should we all just lick the crumbs off the floor and hold hands and say all is well?
I mean great you found some fun on a melee ranger.
Let's see how well you do on a hunter or scout solo?

Tue 7 May 2019 1:53 PM by Horus

Also if they decide to sprint to you to fight they have full endo...

Back in the day at least you could make up for your melee disadvantage by fighting someone who was more or less out of endo by the time they sprinted to you to attack.

Endurance management means zero here and it used to be a big part of the game...

To me the best change option is:

1. Normalize stealth detection range between assassins and archers.
2. Rework the archery spec dmg formula so there is higher DPS at higher specs >35

Give it a try, see what happens. If it seems incorrect, roll it back.

Tue 7 May 2019 2:01 PM by dbeattie71

cere2 wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 1:51 PM
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 5:29 AM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Mon 6 May 2019 3:59 PM
These guys can't even fix a broken ass stealth detection range in 3 months.
Don't expect much as an archer other than to leech rps from other fights or donate.
Or, join alb scout/inf/mini stealth zerg groups and profit.
No one saw that one coming....

You should cancel your subscription and don’t give them another dime.

Truth hurts right? I haven't played them in quite some time. I know it's a free-shard.
But free-shards die too, Uthgard pretty good example I would say.
Should we all just lick the crumbs off the floor and hold hands and say all is well?
I mean great you found some fun on a melee ranger.
Let's see how well you do on a hunter or scout solo?

But I play hib.

Tue 7 May 2019 2:49 PM by AngelRose

dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 2:01 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 1:51 PM
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 5:29 AM
You should cancel your subscription and don’t give them another dime.

Truth hurts right? I haven't played them in quite some time. I know it's a free-shard.
But free-shards die too, Uthgard pretty good example I would say.
Should we all just lick the crumbs off the floor and hold hands and say all is well?
I mean great you found some fun on a melee ranger.
Let's see how well you do on a hunter or scout solo?

But I play hib.

You don't play an archer. You play a melee ranger with no experience on the other archery class. Why do you feel the need to chime in on every thread, about something you don' t play?

Tue 7 May 2019 2:52 PM by AngelRose

I have said this before, but it gets ignored. Trying again, because I think archer could be a lot of fun on this shard...with a couple of minor adjustments.

Just from hunter perspective, the bow damage is fine. Equalize out the stealth detection between sin and archer, and give the pet a minor boost. Something like speed or a simple cc. Nothing OP. Pet is the worst pet in all three realms.

I hope the devs answer this thread. Even if it is not an answer I want to hear, it would be better then the current dead silence.

Tue 7 May 2019 4:30 PM by dbeattie71

AngelRose wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 2:49 PM
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 2:01 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 1:51 PM
Truth hurts right? I haven't played them in quite some time. I know it's a free-shard.
But free-shards die too, Uthgard pretty good example I would say.
Should we all just lick the crumbs off the floor and hold hands and say all is well?
I mean great you found some fun on a melee ranger.
Let's see how well you do on a hunter or scout solo?

But I play hib.

You don't play an archer. You play a melee ranger with no experience on the other archery class. Why do you feel the need to chime in on every thread, about something you don' t play?

How do you k ow what my experience is with an archery class?

I chime is when people bash on devs or say they don’t care. If bashers knew how much time some of them have spent on this project and projects outside of Phoenix, (DOLSharp) , they’d change their tune. The simple fact a developer isn’t getting paid to work on something speaks volumes.

Two of the devs I’m familiar with could easily bill out in the 100-150/hr range. I’d also guess they’ve spent a thousands of hours on Phoenix already. On top of that, they’re working with a client they don’t have the source for or any control of for the most part. Just something to consider, when people think they don’t care.

Tue 7 May 2019 4:49 PM by waffel

The devs have pretty much gone AFK for at least a month. Looks like they got burned out, too. The terrible, terrible buff change idea that got shot down by basically everyone was probably the last big change they were going to attempt.

Tue 7 May 2019 4:53 PM by PingGuy

waffel wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 4:49 PM
The devs have pretty much gone AFK for at least a month. Looks like they got burned out, too. The terrible, terrible buff change idea that got shot down by basically everyone was probably the last big change they were going to attempt.

Don't be so dramatic, they just posted a revised idea today. The last thing they are is AFK, they are always on Discord and handling bans and so forth. It's ok if you don't like the changes, but don't make up ridiculous stuff just to be a jerk.

Tue 7 May 2019 5:41 PM by Amp_Phetamine

waffel wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 4:49 PM
The devs have pretty much gone AFK for at least a month. Looks like they got burned out, too. The terrible, terrible buff change idea that got shot down by basically everyone was probably the last big change they were going to attempt.

Here you go Waffel:

Tue 7 May 2019 9:20 PM by AngelRose

dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 4:30 PM
AngelRose wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 2:49 PM
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 2:01 PM
But I play hib.

You don't play an archer. You play a melee ranger with no experience on the other archery class. Why do you feel the need to chime in on every thread, about something you don' t play?

How do you k ow what my experience is with an archery class?

I chime is when people bash on devs or say they don’t care. If bashers knew how much time some of them have spent on this project and projects outside of Phoenix, (DOLSharp) , they’d change their tune. The simple fact a developer isn’t getting paid to work on something speaks volumes.

Two of the devs I’m familiar with could easily bill out in the 100-150/hr range. I’d also guess they’ve spent a thousands of hours on Phoenix already. On top of that, they’re working with a client they don’t have the source for or any control of for the most part. Just something to consider, when people think they don’t care.

You said you play a melee ranger and you don't play other realms. Is that wrong? And, I really couldn't care less that you know the devs. I appreciate this shard even exists, and realize they have dedicated many hours to this.....and, overall, they have done an amazing job. But, that doesn't mean they are perfect and that there is not room to make improvements.

Archers are broken. That is a fact. Dev's have been silent on this. That is a fact.

Another fact - this is basically their hobby, and if they want archers to stay broken, that is their choice. Though disappointed, overall I am fine with that. But...I still would appreciate some open dialogue about the broken class, so we can set our expectations. This is not bashing. People have been posting real questions for months now.

Tue 7 May 2019 9:31 PM by dbeattie71

AngelRose wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 9:20 PM
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 4:30 PM
AngelRose wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 2:49 PM
You don't play an archer. You play a melee ranger with no experience on the other archery class. Why do you feel the need to chime in on every thread, about something you don' t play?

How do you k ow what my experience is with an archery class?

I chime is when people bash on devs or say they don’t care. If bashers knew how much time some of them have spent on this project and projects outside of Phoenix, (DOLSharp) , they’d change their tune. The simple fact a developer isn’t getting paid to work on something speaks volumes.

Two of the devs I’m familiar with could easily bill out in the 100-150/hr range. I’d also guess they’ve spent a thousands of hours on Phoenix already. On top of that, they’re working with a client they don’t have the source for or any control of for the most part. Just something to consider, when people think they don’t care.

You said you play a melee ranger and you don't play other realms. Is that wrong? And, I really couldn't care less that you know the devs. I appreciate this shard even exists, and realize they have dedicated many hours to this.....and, overall, they have done an amazing job. But, that doesn't mean they are perfect and that there is not room to make improvements.

Archers are broken. That is a fact. Dev's have been silent on this. That is a fact.

Another fact - this is basically their hobby, and if they want archers to stay broken, that is their choice. Though disappointed, overall I am fine with that. But...I still would appreciate some open dialogue about the broken class, so we can set our expectations. This is not bashing. People have been posting real questions.

I had a hunter on live so if you only mean Phoenix, yeah I’ve only played a ranger. I had 35 bow at one point and threw it in the trash with all the misses, blocks, evades, bubble and crits, procs interrupting (really lame).

I don’t know the devs but know their work and it’s also what I do for a living so I defend them because I know what a time sink what they do is. And they’re not getting paid for it.

I never said they weren’t broken, I said in another thread that if the strongest spec for a ranger includes 13 bow, there’s probably an issue. But I found an alternative. If I played mid I’d try the same experiment. I’d make a Norse sword hunter with 15str, 10con because it sounds fun.

Sat 11 May 2019 10:00 PM by Quathan

Bump - Hoping for developer reply