Nerf to volley

#271
Maybe the OP meant to nerf them 20 more than the HA already does?

There should be an easy way for Riot to code in that Teammate-Healing abilities basically ranged or aura-healing abilities could be nerfed without nerfing Self-Healing in the process. It would be along the same lines as having Melee-only abilities or items vs. Ranged-only abilities or items.

Even if the OP didnt mean this, it would help even out the Sustain vs. Non-Sustain team comps that usually appear in ARAM. Along with this, I also feel that Shields are too strong in ARAM as they can often make or break a Team Fight depending on the team comp. Ive often seen Team Comps with Orianna, Karma, and Janna all on the same team. Breaking through those shields alone normally results in a 3v5 for the non-shield oriented team.

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Re: Nerf to volley?

#272
"Hitting the same target three or even two times in a row is very rare"
"Shield makes you almost immune to volley"
"If you move away immediately you won't get hit" (I moved away immediately).

Here's the example you've been asking for so long, a solo ranger putting me to less than 50% in 2 seconds. Yes, it was with volley. No, I can't prove it.

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Re: Nerf to volley?

#273
bm01 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:39 am
"Hitting the same target three or even two times in a row is very rare"
"Shield makes you almost immune to volley"
"If you move away immediately you won't get hit" (I moved away immediately).

Here's the example you've been asking for so long, a solo ranger putting me to less than 50% in 2 seconds. Yes, it was with volley. No, I can't prove it.

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So each shot is 1second between?
Seems like you lived because you weren’t afk
Was anyone else in area?

Re: Nerf to volley?

#274
gotwqqd wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:38 am

So each shot is 1second between?
Seems like you lived because you weren’t afk
Was anyone else in area?
Does it matter? Why is there an ability that shoots at 3k+ range, when no other ability in the game has this capability? Why is there an ability that bypasses the range mechanics completely? (1500 normal range, 1875 timed damage, special ~2k for archers, 2300 for non-damaging control spells--amnesia + nearsight). It seems simply gross that anything would bypass 2300 range.

Re: Nerf to volley?

#275
Well i can understand the range and the damage, not the ability to use it constantly or almost so.

Although, while a timer nerf seems the best option to me, maybe a lower in damages could be nice. After all, high trajectory shots shouldn't deal the same damages than straight to target shots to target, as someone mentionned IRL earlier. :')

Re: Nerf to volley?

#276
Isavyr wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:02 pm
Sepplord wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:37 pm

i am asking for people to describe a specific scenario and so far not a single one has delivered.
I was defending Nottmoor Faste (iirc) and the enemy had broken the outer doors, but not the inner doors. 3+ enemy archers were posted on the nearest tower @ some 3k range, and were using volley on people on top of the keep. Assassins nor light-tanks can climb to the very top of the tower, and nobody can reach it with bolts or nearsight. This creates two problems:
1) There wasn't any known counter except volley (only nuclear weapons counter nuclear weapons--not good design)
2) The damage was sufficient to kill solo casters instantly, and enough to deter anybody from being outside of the keep

I think good arguments were already made about why the ability is stupid, whether it's strong or not. It exists outside the DAOC framework with its 3k+ range. It's untenable.
No offense please, but that example is now that 3archers coordinating are killing solos...and we still don't know attacking force and defending force.
3Archers perfectly timing their shots together is 3arrows every second, with 1second between each arrow and then a 10second pause. That is not impossible to outplay.
Is the range REALLY the problem here? If those archers were positioned closer, inside the keep....would the defending force suddenly charge out to kill them? They could coordinate that, but can't coordinate to have people go onto the roof with shield guards and/or healers ready below?

bm01 wrote: "Hitting the same target three or even two times in a row is very rare"
"Shield makes you almost immune to volley"
"If you move away immediately you won't get hit" (I moved away immediately).

Here's the example you've been asking for so long, a solo ranger putting me to less than 50% in 2 seconds. Yes, it was with volley. No, I can't prove it.

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No need to prove it, i believe you...though it still doesn't show much. What it DOES Show though, is that you were able to move out before getting killed, despite being solo. With example i didn't neccessarily mean proof of an incident happening. Just someone calculating it through, naming size of attacking force, size iof defending force, amount of archer...etc... would be fine too. No need for proof as the mechanics themselves are not really questioned here, it should be possible to paperDAoC a problematic situation if there is an actual problem.

Where are those quotes from btw. because i don't think i wrote that (hopefully i didn'T fuck up earlier :P) but they don't make sense to me. It sounds though as if you are adressing me directly when you mention someone asking for an example, because i actually have done that quite a few times. Hitting the same target two times in a row if it is the sole target in the area is a 25% chance, i wouldn't say that is very rare. And how could someone move away immediatly (after what?) without getting hit. Getting hit, would be the reasonable trigger to know you are getting vollyed, THEN you can move away. So moving away kind of means that you got hit already.

Re: Nerf to volley?

#277
Sepplord wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:35 am
No offense please, but that example is now that 3archers coordinating are killing solos...and we still don't know attacking force and defending force.
It's irrelevant, in my opinion, for the reasons already stated: That volley's "counter" is using the same ability in response--in other words, there is no actual counter.
Sepplord wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:35 am
Is the range REALLY the problem here? If those archers were positioned closer, inside the keep....would the defending force suddenly charge out to kill them? They could coordinate that, but can't coordinate to have people go onto the roof with shield guards and/or healers ready below?
Yes, yes the range is exactly the problem. Basically if an enemy can attack with impunity, people will flee a certain area. This isn't reasonable. Archers need to be included in the DAOC range framework. If you're dealing damage, you should be within nearsight/amnesia range. If the archers were forced to enter the keep, it's certain that they will not be able to volley with impunity; they'd have to deal with assassins, CC, damage, gtae, so forth.

Re: Nerf to volley?

#278
Isavyr wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:27 am
It's irrelevant, in my opinion, for the reasons already stated: That volley's "counter" is using the same ability in response--in other words, there is no actual counter.
I never claimed that volley is the only counter, just because one person made that claim (and he even cleared up that he didn't mean to say it was the ONLY counter) it is now parroted around like the messias of the volley-nerf movement. Seriously, the argument itself is bullshit and using it as counterpoint is equally bullshit.

Isavyr wrote: Yes, yes the range is exactly the problem. Basically if an enemy can attack with impunity, people will flee a certain area. This isn't reasonable. Archers need to be included in the DAOC range framework. If you're dealing damage, you should be within nearsight/amnesia range. If the archers were forced to enter the keep, it's certain that they will not be able to volley with impunity; they'd have to deal with assassins, CC, damage, gtae, so forth.
I don't think the people that can't coordinate defensives against volley now will be able to do that when the archers are sitting in a sidetower of the keepwall, but you might have a point. I just don't think that it would actually change much about the problem that some percieve in volley currently. But it could give assassins something to do in the siege meta, which would be a good thing.

To get a better grasp about that problem scenario: At how many keeps is this possible at all? At the keeps where it works, what towerlevel is required for it to be possible?

Re: Nerf to volley?

#279
Last weeks most popular class was rangers.

My guess is that the nerf will hit pretty hard suddenly, destroying archers like with animists, because the discussion dissolves into trench warfare, instead of being constructive.

Re: Nerf to volley?

#280
Druth wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:57 am
Last weeks most popular class was rangers.

My guess is that the nerf will hit pretty hard suddenly, destroying archers like with animists, because the discussion dissolves into trench warfare, instead of being constructive.
I hope for them that it doesn't happen like that, no class deserves such treatment.
Is it only Hibs/rangers doing it so excessively?