Volley, Rapid Fire, "Flank Shot" Stealth and Critshot.

I've already posted this in the planned Archery changes but to be sure it did not drown in the pages I'm posting it here aswell.

wrote: So we had the damage buffed a bit and nerfed a little again... So instead of looking at the damage, we could have a look at utilities and mechanics...

1. Volley: Bring back the old Volley where you could move ground-target around after each shot. IMO it made it much more interesting. Where you actually had to aim at the ground and predict where people were moving.

2. Rapid Fire: In addition to the current effect add 1.5-2.0 sec snare effect to it... This will give Archers a tool to slow down their enemies so they can't run away that easy and keep the damage low since they have to fire at cap or almost cap speed in order to keep up the effect on their target.

3. "Flank Shot": An alternative to the Rapid Fire change could making a new shot that would only be useable from behind/side target and give a snare effect when they try to run off.

4. Stealth: Some hate it and some love it. Perhaps a mechanic that makes it more interesting to not be in stealth could make folks happier(wishful thinking). A percentage increase in damage increase for each minute not being in stealth. This would ofc. have to be monitored very closely and carefully perhaps a nerf of the regular damage to regulate and justify the buff from this. But what I had in mind was something like being out of stealth for 10-15 min would give you 10-15% damage increase. If you then choose to stealth you will lose the damage buff and have to start over... This will make Archers have to choose between damage or taking cover. I hope this could make Archer a more likable character to invite to a group. At big fights making the Archer not re-stealth all the time only to see them pop out a sec after and run again.

5. Critical Shot: I see people complain about this "ZOMG ONE HIT THIS MUCH DMG - OP SH*T" etc. Though I don't really agree. But to justify one or more of the above changes. Perhaps make it only useable from stealth... nerf the damage bonus or simply remove it.

Oh and please give Scouts an ability to give themselves 75 Dex/Qui... The realm skill points the have to spend to catch up to the other Archers accumulate more than two realm ranks.

I hope some of this could be an inspiration for some more interesting suggested changes for Archers. Thanks for reading <3
Halt - Ranger

Re: Volley, Rapid Fire, "Flank Shot" Stealth and Critshot.

Archer buff then nerf 2x. I say leave everything as it is. Currently at 65 composite bow and aug dex 8 i hit the dummies for 690 on crit and 345 regular shot. That by no means is overpowered considering debuff stun nuke or earth wiz 50% debuff then get hit with their spec bolt. To hit that hard on a scout I literally hit for 20 weapon dmg per swing melee as the Spec line is 50 bow, 45 shield, 9 thrust and 37 stealth. Yes the thrust will be slightly raised after rr5 but I prefer 52 composite stealth for DF mobs and keep guards, might not make a difference but it sure seems like it to me.

Re: Volley, Rapid Fire, "Flank Shot" Stealth and Critshot.

Ashenspire wrote:
Thu 21 May 2020 6:57 PM
Just a big ole yikes to all of this.

Archers were fine. They didn't need the buffs they got, people just felt they should be able to kill any target all the time every time.

These changes are in the same vein as that thought process, which is just ridiculous.

So before these changes:

People would tell you in all 3 realms that playing an archer was a waste of time & not viable.

That you don't bother going high bow because its not viable.

Only viable ranger/hunter was melee. (if you were lucky, most people would just refer to a hunter as trash)

Yet they were also 'fine'?

Re: Volley, Rapid Fire, "Flank Shot" Stealth and Critshot.

From day one archers was a headache for Mythic. Archers were hiding in trees from where they could shoot and kill enemies without them ever knowing the direction.
A long the way Mythic added arrows that indicated from where you got shot, and /face and all kind of patches.

The main problem remain, they are not very group friendly (doesn't bring much to a group), and are either to week or overpowered. The last being a very thin line, be course lining up a crit shot from stealth is not that hard. If your arrows cant do the job, archers are now week melee (unless like some rangers).

I dont know if it is outside the scope of a free shard to mend the archers problem, and to what extend pheonix can makes changes (how much are client side and what can be done server side).

The 45 shield for scouts was a decent attempt of bringing a group friendly ability. However using shield for a ranged class is a last resort, and do feel a little counter intuitive having to sprint after people trying to snare them (think of a 8 man group setup).

Here is my take on what could be done;

Add some utility shot, being utility they should do less than normal bow damage (30 seconds after leaving stealth).

1) silence shot, 5-6 second where target cant cast spell/shout, followed by an emunity timer of 15-30 seconds.
2) snare shot, 4-5 seconds, which can be reapplied. This will be an alternative to a peel bot (with much longer snare timer). Maube it should do less damage, (so you trade range for damage).
3) Bleed shot, makes all existing bleeding tick for 50-200.
4) 10-20% Resist debuf shot, with a short timer.

If we have to go the added bow damage way, maybe crit shot shouldn't do 100% extra damage, but be reduced to 50% if shot from stealth.

Re: Volley, Rapid Fire, "Flank Shot" Stealth and Critshot.

Archers don’t need any of these. Started soloing on my scout at rr1 and was #1 on solo kills within two days for scouts that week. People just need to play better and use what tools they have. None of this is needed whatsoever ever for a change. Numb baiting and a root style is already broken af but people are just bad and need more handicaps.

Re: Volley, Rapid Fire, "Flank Shot" Stealth and Critshot.

Tanakeo wrote:
Sat 23 May 2020 8:59 AM
all people see are the big numbers

that's because the archers are in stealth and can't be seen before the big numbers happen...which is something often forgotten by people claiming the DPS is low. The DPS of a single archer shooting you is lower than the dps a caster can put out in the same time.
How much DPS is a caster doing that you interrupt when you see him? (Hint...it's zero)
How much DPS is an archer doing that you interrupt when you see him? Definitely more than zero, since the arrow is already flying befor you have a chance to see them.


Comparing casters to archers is a tedious task and i haven't seen a single comment going for that comparison to even try taking all different circumstances into consideration.

Re: Volley, Rapid Fire, "Flank Shot" Stealth and Critshot.

Sepplord wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020 11:39 AM
Tanakeo wrote:
Sat 23 May 2020 8:59 AM
all people see are the big numbers

that's because the archers are in stealth and can't be seen before the big numbers happen...which is something often forgotten by people claiming the DPS is low. The DPS of a single archer shooting you is lower than the dps a caster can put out in the same time.
How much DPS is a caster doing that you interrupt when you see him? (Hint...it's zero)
How much DPS is an archer doing that you interrupt when you see him? Definitely more than zero, since the arrow is already flying befor you have a chance to see them.


Comparing casters to archers is a tedious task and i haven't seen a single comment going for that comparison to even try taking all different circumstances into consideration.

You do realize what DPS is? The point here is that over a longer period archer still do pretty lousy DPS but they have a pretty high frontload damage. Especially vs. Casters but also vs. Leather classes this frontload can be pretty impressive, not so much vs. studded and chain.

However, once you talk about DPS then it really depends on the time frame to look at

3 seconds
archer (moa5 needed + 250 quickness), preloaded crit shot (otherwise he needs 6,5 seconds to do the same): 700 damage crit + 350 damage regular shot (that's what you can expect vs. studded with bonus arrows) = 1050 damage in 3 seconds
Now a caster could get about 3x casts out in this time, at least debuff + 2 nukes probably hitting around 900-1100 damage

So in this short timeframe they have comparable DPS, but only if the crit shot was already preloaded. What happens if the target isn't dead and we look at ...

6 seconds
Archer: 700 + 2x 350 (regular shot takes 3 seconds each) = 1400 damage
Casters can easily cast debuff + 5 nukes or 5-6 regular nukes = A LOT MORE!

And I don't really want to talk about your interrupt DPS comment, you disregard quickcast, cc, bubble, moc, ichor, life tap reprocs and so on.