Re: 2021 Balance Changes #1

Still waiting on a response about BD.

Are the pets in the dark line going to get a 10% boost to their Body damage as well? Lets face it BDs are a shell of their old selves and that was before this latest nerf.

If the other casters get a boost to their lifetap, isn't the pet of the BD getting hurt with out the added damage, unfairly?

Re: 2021 Balance Changes #1

These changes are poorly thought out garbage. Now we are setting up groups created by the Devs. You should have just implemented the style changes before making strange changes to a select couple of classes. The styles changes were the majority of the vote and obviously the people who didn't vote for it were the loudest complainers, really for no good reason. So many people are trying to come over from live and can't deal with these old styles. I know personally there are over 4 classes in the game I don't play because of how ancient the styles are.

It's funny you think Dashing Defense is a great equal gift to all 3 realms - the entire Hib and Mid BG over the last couple days were joking about how useless this ability is/was and it still will be. There's a reason "they" got rid of this RA long ago.

This is really disappointing given how much praise and support I've given Devs in the past, this still won't make/help me play my Thane, Friar, Champion, Merc.

Re: 2021 Balance Changes #1

First of all, great changes!

- A spirit nuke in the midgard suppression line of bd /rm / sm
- An energy nuke in the hibernia mana line of eld / ench / menta
- A matter nuke in the albion matter line of sorc / cab

Yes! Now the way i understand those will all be baseline nukes, so they will be very power expencive?!

If so we need to urgently address the power pool problems of baseline assist castergroups.
The only ways i see it working is to increase the powerpool of all mana users by 25% (healer classes have asked for this too, a lot since the HP buffs) or to reduce manacost of baseline nukes by 25% = healertypes and other mana users don't get the benefit (i personally prefer option1 but both would help the problem).

This is a serious problem, currently a castergroup relying on baseline nukes has roughly enough power to kill 10 enemies if none of them gets a single heal!!!!

So in a clean 8v8 going hugely in favor of the castergroup you end up with power problems at the end of it, every single time.

This problem so far has been addressed by many baseline nukers going heavily into the power RAs (mcl2 acuity4 etheral bond4, raging power 1-2) denying them passive dps/castspeed/baod/moc etc. And by 8men by opting to group more mentas or elds and enchanters debuffing heat and cold so the eld would not go oom // by grouping body sorcs or cabbas // by simply not running caster setups in Mid - there were castergroups and they disappeared with the HP change for exactly this reason.
Also casters don't have a choice to use healpots/interrupt charges etc. simply because they are forced to use powerpot/chunk on cooldown to be able to finish a clean 8v8.

------------------------------------
Regarding Mid caster i have 2 suggestions on top of the changes:

1) spirit master pet could be running at hunter pet speed (= sprint speed) - this would make spirit master pets a menace and give it offensive potential - currently sm pets are almost completely useless on the offense because you can outsprint them. - On top of this they could become lvl51 so they interrupt moc, if you want to give Midgard their own "Minstrel/Menta option" (i play mid 8 the least of the 3 realms and would find this fair).

2) Runemaster Runecarving line needs buffs, because RM is the weakest of the 3 nearsight casters and simply lacks utility - RC being his weakest specline is the best option to put utility in - imo it could be single and aoe cast amnesia fitting the Midgard amnesia theme. So Dark/Supp and Supp/Dark RMs would get access to single amnesia but not the aoe, only available at higher RC levels.
Optional or alternative RC could have a single mezz or stun and i strongly recommend RMs having access to RA: Ichor of the Deep.


One problem here regarding realm equality:
The current Friar self endurance consumption reduction buff will become a group pulse without mana cost.

So will Warden get his endu reduction buff be a group pulse or buff too?
Right now Mid has 100% endu while shaman is alive - Alb has 100% endu while pally is alive, Hib needs to group 2 Bards to have endu reliably, else it will be down in most fights because a solo Bard has no time to twist in interruptable endusong.
Xpovoc, Jukaron, Nephamael, Mauril, Lareya, Aideen, Njoro

Re: 2021 Balance Changes #1

Hib caster meta changes (buff suggestions) December 2020 DAOC Phoenix
There is a distinct problem with the Hib caster meta. The Hib caster meta isn’t competitive for a variety of reasons. These suggestions are made when comparing Hib, Alb, and Mid caster or caster hybrid comps.

Alb advanatages: Albs have superior range with sorc 1875 range mez spam and 2000 range earth pet spam. Albs also have superior interrupts. Minstrels are perhaps the best interrupt class due to 4 insta interrupts, flute spammable mez, and a pet. Reavers also have access to pbaoe pulsing interrupts, insta dd and dot of which 2 levels can be cast on each. Also, most Alb groups have 3-4 pets (sorc, cab, minstrel) plus a theurg. Body damage type. A Hib caster or Hib hybrid cannot practically run a Warden due to the extreme lack of utility a warden provides.

Mid advantages: Mids have an insta interrupt advantage with skalds and Bonedancers (the Body debuff still interrupts). Between the Bonedancer pets, the Bonedancer spamming insta lifetap and insta body debuff, the skald interupting, a mid group has a natural pushing advantage that is difficult to deal with as a Hib caster or Hib hybrid group. A good Pac Healer will start an 8v8 by insta stunning the bard. Every mid caster has root. Hammer is very popular due to conquer. A rooted or Conquere snared hib target will be left behind and assisted down on as the hib group is pushed.

Hib deficiencies: The Hib caster or Hib hybrid isn’t played because the Hib melee 4/4 group deals with these problems much more efficiently. A few problems that outline the struggle of the Hib caster group are listed below. These problems are outlined for a Hib Hybrid or Hib caster group running the following comp: (Bard, Nature Druid, Nurture Druid, Light Ment, Mana Enchanter, split spec Light/Mana Eld, Hero, Valewalker. The Valewalker could be swapped for another split spec Light/Mana Eld or another Light Ment). Wardens do not bring enough utility for a Hib caster group to be viable. The aoe root from the Nature druid is necessary for pulling as a caster comp. The damage provided by the Valewalker or Eld/Ment option for the 4th dps is necessary. Without 4 dps, the comp does not function well. Running a Bard/Warden/2 Druids for a caster group is not competitive.

A few problems or deficiencies in class spec and baseline spells are outlined below which contribute to the overall poor performance of the hib caster or hybrid comp:
1) Problem: Power consumption for base nukes.
Hibs rely mostly on base nukes, except for the Mentalist which has a level 45 Light 209 delve heat nuke. The Enchanter can only spec 22 in Light due to the requirement of having the level 49 Mana line heat debuff. The base nuke from Light costs a large amount of power since it is such a low spec, which is mandatory. When speced for 22 Light, only 20 baseline heat nukes can be cast. When speced higher in Light, about 30 baseline nukes can be cast.
Solution: Power efficiency should incorporate the +11 skill from spellcrafting and +skill from realm rank. This would allow for increased power efficiency. This is a quality of life change that can be applied across the board with little impact for large changes in the meta.

2) Problem: Lack of caster damage. Hibs do not have access to a 219 delve nuke (Runemaster and Wizard both have a 219 spec nuke).
Animists get a 225 delve bomber, but Animists are not viable due to the lack of Void Elds (bad spec) and the primary train is heat. The big damage caster is a Mentalist with a 209 heat nuke. Light Elds have a 209 cold nuke, which isn’t even used since it is so inefficient to debuff for two damage types. No other realm needs to debuff 2 damage types.
Albs have faster baseline nukes (2.5s body lifetap vs hib 2.6s heat and mid 2.6s cold). Albs also can spec higher into their baseline nuke, Cabalist at level 25 body and Sorcerers can spec level 28+ in Body. Some sorcs can split spec and have no variation with their baseline lifetap. Mids will have a Darkness Spiritmaster and a Darkness Bonedancer with no variation, but the bd has pets that do a considerable amount of damage on their own. Very few mids run a RC RM with a Dark RM assisting, but it is possible. They prefer the BD for interupts and dps over a Dark RM.
Solution: Move the eld spec light nuke to level 47 and change the damage type to heat. This would eliminate the need to debuff 2 damage types and would make sense as all other light spec nukes (Enchanter and Mentalist) are heat.

3) Problem: Lack of utility.
Enchanters are a debuff and nuke bot. Enchanter brings very little to the table outside of a debuff, stun, pet, and a spec light melee debuff and dehaste debuff which will never be higher than level 22. Pbaoe does happen in 8v8s to clear pets, but it isn’t a primary focus by any means. This means, the bulk of the utility comes from the level 49 heat debuff in the mana line. An entire spec is used just for a debuff. Runecarving Runemasters and Spirit Cabalists both bring stat debuffs (baseline dex and baseline str), nearsight, and root. Cabalists have a pet and runemasters have damage add and pbt. I am not accounting for speed as both alb and hib and mid have equal caster speed in a group when comparing caster comps or caster hybrid comps.
Mentalists have a decent amount of utility with a low spec level single target mez (high resist rate, even with Mastery of Focus), a modest spec heal, demez (which is critical to have a 2nd demez in the group), and a charmed pet. Mentalism is arguably the worst spec in the game, but a Mentalist is required to have 28 Mentalism for a demez.
Bard confuse is a 3.5s cast. Sorcerer confuse is a 2.5s cast.
Solutions:
Enchanters need another form of crowd control, such as a root, a mez, or nearsight. Enchanters are the only class in the game without a root or a mez. This needs to be added to the mana spec line. Damage add should be moved to baseline in Enchantments as Enchantments is arguably one of the worst speclines in the game.
Mentalists need to have demez moved lower in mentalism to allow for higher spec in light to charm a higher level pet. Mentalists need another utility (non damage) spell, such as amnesia.
Bard confuse needs to be a 2.5s cast. This was changed on the Live Server ages ago. A 3.5s confusion cannot keep up with 3.0s speed6 earth pets. The earth pets will reach the bard by the 2nd one and interrupt, even if the bard begins casting confusion on earth pets as soon as they come in range.


The Alb caster and Alb hybrid are currently overperforming in relation to the other realms. This is noticible with the amount of listed 8mans that run on Alb and the Alb overpopulation for the past several weeks.

In light of all this, we have more alb buffs. An Alb-only, yet another Friar buff, group wide endo reduction buff. Mercs get a rear snare, and Paladins get DD.

Mids get a massive thane buff with giving DD and an option for running a debuff for a thane.

Hibs get left in the dirt again. DD on a champ is helpful for the hib tank meta, which is already primary since Hib casters are so incredibly weak. The baseline energy nuke for Hib casters does litterally nothing to address the inherent weakness for Hib caster and Hib Hybrid groups.

If you are going to add a game breaking mechanic like group endo reduction, do it for all 3 realms or don't do it all.

Re: 2021 Balance Changes #1

Basically no change for the Friar then. This is something, but far from exciting or really that relevant. There were lots of great suggestions in the forums and near consensus that a way forward was to at least improve the HoT. It's unclear to me why you even opened it up for discussion to be honest.

More importantly, who is one the player council? Given this weak and pretty irrelevant friar change, it does strike me that you should think about having somebody who has actually played each of the classes that you are trying to fix.

The other stuff your proposing here for casters is actually more exciting.

Re: 2021 Balance Changes #1

Centenario wrote:
Thu 31 Dec 2020 3:37 PM
Paladin/etc... dashing defense: <5% of what needs to be done, what use is this RA when your friar/cleric can die if he isn’t close to you, or if you are CCed. Since paladin has no good peel style, he will not replace the armsman 90% of the time as well.

Yeah, back snare, two side snares (or an anytime chain), and stuns ... no good peel ability on Paladins at all.
7,881,878 | 4,708,489 | 3,049,781

Re: 2021 Balance Changes #1

Illusionist wrote:
Thu 31 Dec 2020 4:46 PM
It's funny you think Dashing Defense is a great equal gift to all 3 realms - the entire Hib and Mid BG over the last couple days were joking about how useless this ability is/was and it still will be. There's a reason "they" got rid of this RA long ago.

You know who thinks DD is bad? Bad players and zergers (notice I didn't say zergers are bad players, so don't get your panties in a bunch).

DD is a must-have staple of every 8-man group, so much so that not having it is not an option for any composition but Alb's 5-body 6-pet groups.
7,881,878 | 4,708,489 | 3,049,781

Re: 2021 Balance Changes #1

I have zero issues with any of the changes and also wanted to say Thank You for continuing to try and develop this game further, I can’t believe we’ve come this far. So great job and thanks for posting for us to read ahead of time.

One question tho.... why can’t we just give all 3 realms celerity to drift further away from the caster meta? I play a sorc 9/10 times I play and would not be opposed to this. Just curious why this keeps being avoided. As for who would get it : paladin and warden. Having played mid for years and running hard push groups this is something Phoenix needs more of.