Re: Style Changes

Arthoras wrote:
Fri 16 Oct 2020 2:42 PM
I mean ... I'll take my class as an example now. I play hero as a counter class solo. I love the reactive styles that build on the opponent's parry and block. You have removed these styles completely and without replacement. These are normal After Parry styles now. The whole LW line is now a normal, boring weapon line with no unique selling points. The part why I played the class is gone. So why should I still want to play this?


I wanna add to that from a friar perspective. As most people might think its a huge and mostly positive change for friars, which it is not. Here are some available speccs
once the changes arrived: 50/ 43/ 2
50/ 42/ 7/ 6
44/ 45/ 19/ 4 (u can add the spellines to whatever number u like, it wont make any sense)

Non of these speccs is viable in groups or BG´s, as u eigther have no buffs (red self-dex is 45 enhance), or no heal at all. Same problem on side chain as VW´s have, breaking all CC. And grps is the only chance to apply that side chain (they take the already weak 3s after-evade stun off friars). And heal procs only heal the friar himself.
So it is a solo specc?! No, it isnt that eigther. Only chance to apply sidechain is by abusing client lagg, which affects people with weak connection the most. After parry 8s stun seems huge thing tho, right? No, it isnt. Even as of now, if u end up with 12 parry specced that is alot already, with rr10 combined thats 32 parry which translates to 15% parry chance if u are incredibly lucky, and only then. So u might never apply that one in PvP.

If they increase the multiplier on specc points to 1.8 like suggested it wont make most ppl specc into a useless 50staff, when u can have a full healspecc combined with a good melee specc the same time, making you basically OP. The only thing u really win is the celerity proc then, but u loose your only cc except for the backsnare. (side-stun not counted, for already mentioned reasons)

All that while friars are the only healers, except clerics, which u are now luring into a useless melee-specc destryoing their very grp nature.
I just dont see how they wanna fix/ balance that afterwards. It feels like they didnt really think about possbile speccs to those fancy changes.

PS: I might doubleposted this, as the first attempted failed for some reason.

Re: Style Changes

kpax wrote:
Fri 16 Oct 2020 3:11 PM
great changes.

But u still keep reaver too strong. Its way too op to have still that kind of style on backstyle without any follow up. first advance is that reaver has way better chance to spam it casue in reality ppll run away so their back free. Vw needs stand front or side and its a follow up, which means he only can do it in stun only. Thane has is as follow up back style.

solution = make leviathan for reaver a follow up backstyle and its balanced out imo.

Great change for thane, which is a great balancing idea imo. Makes him now more interesting for grp rvr.

Ofc there will be always flames casue noone like give up advance, but overall its a good decision.

Solution = don’t present your back to a reaver that hasn’t been peeled/cc’d.

Re: Style Changes

Couma1990 wrote:
Fri 16 Oct 2020 3:52 PM
I wanna add to that from a friar perspective. As most people might think its a huge and mostly positive change for friars, which it is not. Here are some available speccs
once the changes arrived: 50/ 43/ 2
50/ 42/ 7/ 6
44/ 45/ 19/ 4 (u can add the spellines to whatever number u like, it wont make any sense)

You could go 34 or 39 staves. But 1.8 is prob needed to privde real benefits... atm its probably a bit of a damage buff and a nerf as a peeler. Reaver wasn't helped (when that change went in on live their LT could be buffed via gear) and nor was pala kinda a dark day for alb.

Re: Style Changes

Amarath wrote:
Fri 16 Oct 2020 4:05 PM
Couma1990 wrote:
Fri 16 Oct 2020 3:52 PM
I wanna add to that from a friar perspective. As most people might think its a huge and mostly positive change for friars, which it is not. Here are some available speccs
once the changes arrived: 50/ 43/ 2
50/ 42/ 7/ 6
44/ 45/ 19/ 4 (u can add the spellines to whatever number u like, it wont make any sense)

You could go 34 or 39 staves. But 1.8 is prob needed to privde real benefits... atm its probably a bit of a damage buff and a nerf as a peeler.

It's definitely a buff for rejuv friars imo, 15 staff five second stun and they still have a snare at 18 staff. Can still go the same spec as before but with an additional tool.
Hib: Imadoctor//Hypospray//Batleth

Alb: Redshirts//Philipjfry//Shieldsup

Mid: Aielman//Mahstuls//Smallsoldier

Re: Style Changes

Tubby wrote:
Fri 16 Oct 2020 3:40 PM
Bradekes wrote:
Fri 16 Oct 2020 2:25 PM
I'm thinking they went with this idea because coming up with and manually adjusting 1300 potential styles was too much for them...

Maybe y'all need to calm down and give them a break

please dont give us give them a break... we voted on things that we thought were one thing but instead something completely different which breaks the final straw for this server being anything like classic tbh. and bringing in new styles for hybrids without the hybrid spell lines being changend also just craps on the hybrids.

Do you pay them to run this server? Would you like to come up with a brand new line of styles for every style line that doesn't get used? So yeah, give the devs a break this is a starting point that evens out styles across the realms better than the current state. It also addresses their desire to eliminate 3-4part chains. I don't think we need all these high delve dd styles but maybe those can be adjusted down to make it balanced.

I don't see the big deal. I also don't see how you expect them to do different

Re: Style Changes

DJ2000 wrote:
Fri 16 Oct 2020 1:52 PM
From a Hib perspective:

So for a Warden its
34 Blunt - 45 Nurture - 33 Regrowth for the OP "Heal Eff. Debuff" (which will be nerfed, 100% sure on this)
or
40 Blades - 45/47/48 Nurture - 26/22/20 Regrowth

For a Valewalker its
39 Scythe - 50/43 Arbo - 18/31 Parry (Playstyle Changes for the VW thanks to this change)

For a Champion its
Unchanged mostly. Less Back-Stun duration, but side snare added. Front-Dps went up, stuns mostly with afterfollow-parry in 1v1.

For a Blademaster its
CD mostly unchanged. Blunt Anytimer with 10 toHit and 10sec Stun at 50...wtf

For a Bard its
Unchanged. Blunt still has after parry Styles on a class with no Parry...

For a Hero its
LW back-Stun is now a followup to a Back-Snare. Side snare added and better Frontal-Dps. No after Evade.
CS BAck chain is cut off to Back-Snare only. Side chain at 44-50 still highest/best Dps chain. Another side chain added at 18+25 with a afterfollow stun. Frontal seems useless.
Solo LW > CS. Grp CS > LW

For a Nightshade its
CS has now: non-stealth backside Stun, non-stealth Side Stun chain with good Dps. Garrote snare gone, is now Anytimer (no effect) chain into Armor debuff with -10 Def Malus on both. All the Dps is now in After Evade 3-chain.
CD has now: apart from the back-Snare at 21 the entire CD-Styles are rather useless now when compared to CS styles. CD is the only means for a Back-Snare as a Nightshade. Envenom (disease+snare) makes this line almost useless. So its only for the swing chance now + Back snare.
Pierce vs Blades:
After Evade-> 20-Bleed on afterevade at 25 and a Snare-Stun(8sec) chain at 29-44 with Pierce is inferior to 20-Bleed on afterevade at 21 and snare-Stun(6sec) chain at 25-29 with Blades.
Anytimer -> 10 ToHit/10 Def bonus on Anytimer at 34 (followup at 50 with 15 toHit/5 Def) with Pierce is superior to 10 toHit/0 Def Anytimer at 44 with Blades.
Back -> rather useless medium Damage chain at 12-18 with Pierce is inferior to 32-bleed stack on followup chain with good Dps at 34-50 with Blades.
Side -> Snare into 26-Bleed stack at 21-39 with Pierce is superior to snare into slowed at 10-15, but not by much (depends on CD and CS)
Frontal -> pierce has a frontal chain but its less usefull than the pierce anytimer(chain), blades has no frontal.

If you go pierce, go high pierce as the after evade is at 44. But u will get more usability as Pierce complements the CS line better than Blades, Style-wise.
If you go Blades, even lower levels is fine as u get the after evade at 29, which frees up skill points for other lines. The rather late back-chain is more PvE than RvR, as a fleeing target should get snared (CD 21) if not already poisoned. It also remains to be the better Damage type.
Another Note: Assassins now rule the Melee-Snare-Kite Game thanks to lowered snare value of 40% and the use of Poisons.

For a Ranger its
Archer Build
CD -> Evade only offers Stun as a followup at high lvls 33+, Anytimers offer nothing usefull, Side offers Stun at 18(5sec), Back offers snare at 21, Frontal offers a snare at 35
Blades -> Evade offers snare at 25 with a stun(6sec.) at 29 as followup, anytime offers nothing, back offer snare at 34, side offers snare at 10
Pierce -> Evade offers snare at 29 with a stun(6sec.) at 44 as followup, anytime offers nothing, back offer snare at 12, side offers snare at 21
Basically unchanged. Side stun 18 CD into Side Snare 10 Blades.

Melee Build
CD -> Evade offers a good Dps Af debuff into Stun(4sec) chain at 25-33, a mediocre anytimer at 34, a very strong and high DPs Back Snare-Snare chain at 21-50. Frontal has also good Dps Snare-Slowed chain at 34-39 with no def malus attached, side offers the side stun(5sec) with 20-Bleeding stack.
Pierce and Blades get mostly outclassed by the CD styles. Pick for Damage type or go for Pierce anytime chain at 34-50 that still has lower dps than the CD frontal.

I never Played these style changes on live DaoC as i was mostly gone at that point.

Long story short: My takeaway from this is
VW ++
Warden +
NS (Assassins in general) +
BM +
Ranger (melee) +
Hero and Champ +/-
Bard 0

Very nicely written.

I'm looking forward to trying the assassin changes... especially 50 CS for ripper.
Blindgaze rr7 sb
Zamara rr6 ns

Re: Style Changes

There really is no point for me to continue with the negativity towards all changes and accusing us of being deceptive with the vote, what the fuck did you expect when you voted yes on a vote that explicitly mentioned all weapon lines? That we just plop a backsnare to Ragnarok and call it a day? Oh wait, people actually accuse us of being deceptive with the crit variance vote because we then only changed the crit variance.

Last November we internally decided to announce some major change regarding the future of the server once the eu pt population drops below a certain threshold on a non holiday Sunday. Aside from bug fixes there won't be anymore gameplay changes until then.

gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 27 Sep 2020 10:10 PM
Frigzy wrote:
Sun 27 Sep 2020 7:26 PM
Classic was definitely part of the original advertisement. Now it has become clear the Classic part was nothing more than a marketing trick. It's become a full-blown progression server.

At some point the players who started here because of the initial charm will play here only because there's no viable alternative around. That's the beginning of a fragile and dwindling playerbase.

Most official messaging was rather careful to say 1.65 as the base and changes from there and maybe something like classic inspired thrown in. However, there is no denying that since launch the stance of some more classic leaning staff members has shifted to be more open.

The problem with patch level authentic servers, regardless of the chosen patch level, is twofold, each and every patch level has issues, lots and lots of issues, many of which will have been fixed in later versions and the other part is that it just becomes stale.
For older games as the server life goes on there is a general downward trend as new players are rare when compared to current titles, that means it's important to get as many people as possible in the launch to be left with a healthy population 3 months down the line after the typical new mmo exodus.
Pure patch level following shards in pretty much any game have just the downward trend inherent to older games.
Shards that follow a strict patch progression as done by the original game (ie most wow vanilla shards, many everquest shards, wow classic) have rather big upticks at every new content release followed by a quick player loss again, pretty much the same as on launch although with obviously a less pronouncend spike and loss, and coupled with the general downward trend, however, depending on the specific content patch it can mean you can retain more returning players than you lost between the last content phase and this one.
Custom changes can go either way

Things that go against the general downward trend are events and changes, events help make it less stale but especially to get people to return, usually it's just for the event though. Changes are less so for getting players back and more to prevent people from leaving due the normal decay from it just becoming stale.
Both are somewhat dangerous though, you can't have constant events as then it just becomes nothing special anymore and it then would also disrupt the normal gameplay potentially to the point that people who prefer the normal gameplay leave. Changes can also be dangerous in that people that _really_ don't like them will leave, here it is a balance act if you think the change will keep more people who would have left due to staleness versus those leaving because of the change.
A combination of both is kind of our approach, the thinking being people who left due to staleness return for a fun event and see that some things have changed since they left which might make them stay longer than just the event.

The only lasting but at least for older games incredibly risky way to keep a population is seasons as the launch of each season is pretty much a new server launch with the corresponding launch phase that is just entirely unlike the normal day to day action a month or two after launch, even people who don't like a particular game will most likely enjoy the launch phase of such a game.
Current titles / progression servers can do it in a more subtle way: expansions, the prime example here would be wow where every expansions is pretty much a complete reset although you get to carry over cosmetics and some achievements, daoc kind of tried that with SI / spellcrafting and later mostly did it with toa / mls but due to RR a big part of player power / progression was not reset.
For most older games most freeshard players usually are already effectively playing seasons by jumping to new servers as they are released.