Re: Phoenix killed the Paladin class

#21
stinsfire wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:42 pm
Paladins? Worse than thanes or friars ever were. No damage, bad peel, no utility that your group doesnt have anyway. No buffs.
The buffed paladins prior to launch, increased skill points and jumped up the damage a bit. Like people have said it's the end pots that have made paladins so unlikable.
Totally agree on your cleric point and I don't think there's a soul out there that would argue against smite being made 1500 range.
" the self licking ice cream cone of ablative invincibility like a shades of mist cloak"

Re: Phoenix killed the Paladin class

#22
Lollie wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:49 pm
stinsfire wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:42 pm
Paladins? Worse than thanes or friars ever were. No damage, bad peel, no utility that your group doesnt have anyway. No buffs.
The buffed paladins prior to launch, increased skill points and jumped up the damage a bit. Like people have said it's the end pots that have made paladins so unlikable.
Totally agree on your cleric point and I don't think there's a soul out there that would argue against smite being made 1500 range.
The thing is... paladins were meant to be on the lower end of dps for melees but provide good utility for the group, just like Wardens.
But increasing paladin damage didn't help with the problem at all. Now you have the choice between an armsman who does a fuckton of damage and misses less, gets stoicism etc. and a Paladin who does mediocre damage and provides no more utility than armsman. So I almost forgot they buffed pala dmg.
Endu pots als fuck over Archers btw. In SI solos had to manage their endu if they werent an Endu class like friar or warden. So you could kite people and when they wanted to catch up to you they had to fight you with barely any endurance. Here everyone sprints around like a marathon runner and is in your face instantly or simply sprints away.

Devs here might have good technical skills but they have no grasp on how their changes fuck up things.
Guild: Midnight Sun
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Re: Phoenix killed the Paladin class

#23
stinsfire wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 3:09 pm
Lollie wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:49 pm
stinsfire wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:42 pm
Paladins? Worse than thanes or friars ever were. No damage, bad peel, no utility that your group doesnt have anyway. No buffs.
The thing is... paladins were meant to be on the lower end of dps for melees but provide good utility for the group, just like Wardens.
But increasing paladin damage didn't help with the problem at all. Now you have the choice between an armsman who does a fuckton of damage and misses less, gets stoicism etc. and a Paladin who does mediocre damage and provides no more utility than armsman.
And here it lies in a nutshell. There is nothing that a Paladin brings to a group now since they all got replaced by pots which in turn allows other classes to do the palas role better. One could argue AOTG, but that would require tank groups which would mean people play the likes of Merc and Pala, which they dont due to everyone rolling caster groups with a friar peeler, and if no friar available an armsman.

Melee on alb just needs to be looked at, starting with the Paladin as no class should be left out of the game in this way.
I for one would love to see Celerity chant (like live added to compensate the class) so paladin actually has something which outperforms pots. You would soon see more people wanting to play Mercs etc with a pala, and it would not tip the scale in rvr at all because caster groups would still be more powerful. But at least there WOULD be melee groups, and palas/mercs would have something to do in the rvr game other than suiciding out of apk for realm task ticks. Hell even necros would get groups for abs debuff too. Theres just no downside to this.

Re: Phoenix killed the Paladin class

#29
Paladins are quite good now - but they do suffer from being overlooked and not having a defined role. Chants is actually a good line: Endo is not rendered useless by pots, the +2 per tick helps you style and and sprint at the same time. Even over red Cleric spec AF, a red Pally armor chant is a big deal - the excess over Cleric spec AF results in 10-15% less damage alone. Tri-resists are also excellent as are the resist chants, although twisting is a big hassle without AHK.

Celerity (which is anywhere from +30-60% DPS) would be too strong in on Alb in combination with Necro ABS buff, and since it's a chant on a 2.5x spec class it'll end up having more uptime than an Aug Healer's which is not really fair. Likewise as said above, it will definitely open up the "why do only Hibs not have Celerity" conversation, when Hib is already the only realm without a major "melee assist" type of buffer.

What I'd go with is this:

Remove power cost on End Chant
Increase heal chant by 60% (74 at last level, for 18.4 double-tapped H/PS), and fixed to work on pets
Improve 2h a bit:
Raise GR on Bone Bruiser to around .50, to-hit on Bone-Splitter and Bone Breaker to 10. Increase Bone Splitter snare to 15s.
Doubler: Snare 12->18s, Endo from 15->10.
Sun and Moon: Stun 7s->9s, Hit Bonus 5->10, Defense Bonus 0->10
Onslaught: Snare 14-15s

Possible others if not enough
Taunt CD reduced to 20s (same for Friars)

Re: Phoenix killed the Paladin class

#30
Redattack wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:37 am
While we're discussing Pallies, can we talk about ending twisting, and making the endo chant not cost power? Seriously, everyone twists and has all the chants up at all times anyway, what purpose does it serve beyond giving players carpal tunnel? Just let all chants be running at once and be done with it. My hands hurt from all this twisting. And regarding the endo chant, perma sprint without pots is one of the nice things about the class when you're solo, but I have to keep spamming the chant to avoid using power and it's obnoxious, both visually and audibly.

As for making pallies more useful in groups, my suggestion would be, beyond the QoL changes above, to remove the resist chants entirely since nobody uses them, give them a somewhat low-value melee resist chant instead, and castable heals roughly equivalent to Friar unspecced base heals. The melee resist chant would provide the pally with a much needed niche to fill, while also compensating for the fact that all realms now have spec AF, thus giving Albs their unique "thing" back again. Castable heals would give pallies an additional role to fill as backup heals, as well as provide general utility in a group context beyond just serving as a chant bot.

Just my two cents.
If a paladin is not twisting resists, the effectiveness of the class is being limited. It's the same thing as a minstrel not using a pet..