Re: Archers need love

#171
Sepplord wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:00 am
sounds like archers could use stealthlore pots to easily avoid assassins
Why on earth should they have to. (i tested it, was 400g for 10pcs for a while on cm) and you will go broke fast since its short duration ofc and should be.

If i as a minstrel uses one, an Assassin will still see the minstrel at close to the doble range.

Re: Archers need love

#172
Lillebror wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:38 am
Sepplord wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:00 am
sounds like archers could use stealthlore pots to easily avoid assassins
Why on earth should they have to. (i tested it, was 400g for 10pcs for a while on cm) and you will go broke fast since its short duration ofc and should be.

If i as a minstrel uses one, an Assassin still see the minstrel at close to the doble range.
because the sologame and especially the stealthgame is an armsrace about pots/charges...
you also don't need to have it permanently active, but at hotspots or when you were visible shooting enemies it would be smart to pop one if you don't want to change your position.
Many claim that there are just no options to avoid PAs from assassins, which is just not true. Archers here have reported that they often turn/avoid PA, and those who can't do that fast enough could use stealthlore pots.
Someone must be using them, otherwise they wouldn't be expensive. YOU chose to not pay the price others are paying. So live with the downsides.


I am not saying that archers are fine btw. there are problems. (mainly no reason to specc in bow, pathfinding and especially beastcraft lacking, just to name 2) But i disagree that they should be on even footing VS assassins in melee when they are a ranged class.
Afaik you can preload a critshot and then chose your target afterwards (which wasn't possible on live), with higher stealth detection archers would get free critshots on assassins, without a positional requirement...so not every custom change on phoenix is a nerf.

Re: Archers need love

#173
Just give archers the same stealth as Assassins.
Make it so anyone with stealth cant use SL potions.
Make hunters pets do something/give hunters something to help them slightly. Hunters are basically fodder atm unless they catch you running.

I mean you cant ever make it so archers are on par with assassins in melee. But at least if your not eating a PA every single fight and you got your big Ras up. It should be a closer fight. RNG on evades will always cuck someone though etc.
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https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?t=5481

Re: Archers need love

#174
I dont care about dps, you guys out dps every stealther in melee.
I just dont find it fair that you spot everything long before archers and minstrels.

With Archers camo+true sight and Assassins see hidden , Archers atleast had there moment of glory every 30min.

I know also all other stealth classes should see Minstrels easy but the range Assassins sees both Archers and Minstrels now is straight unfair.

Re: Archers need love

#175
Stimmed wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:55 am
Just give archers the same stealth as Assassins.
Make it so anyone with stealth cant use SL potions.
Make hunters pets do something/give hunters something to help them slightly. Hunters are basically fodder atm unless they catch you running.

I mean you cant ever make it so archers are on par with assassins in melee. But at least if your not eating a PA every single fight and you got your big Ras up. It should be a closer fight. RNG on evades will always cuck someone though etc.

Holy ^%$# Meggle's.
Get ready to be the outcast in the SB/Inf/NS community. What you just said may get you banned from the cliche!

"Just give archers the same stealth as Assassins."
"Make it so anyone with stealth cant use SL potions."

Someone give this man/woman a medal!

edited to be inclusive.
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Re: Archers need love

#176
Assassins should always see an Archer/Minstrel first. There is zero logical reason why either should be on par with assassins.

Beastcraft does give you an advantage in a duel it cuts chance to evade in half. It has a decent buff line which is the main reason aside from pet to use it.

Archery is fine if you spec into it you get damage, though I do agree they should add a little flare to it just so it's interesting.

Re: Archers need love

#177
Kappu wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:04 pm
Assassins should always see an Archer/Minstrel first. There is zero logical reason why either should be on par with assassins.

Beastcraft does give you an advantage in a duel it cuts chance to evade in half. It has a decent buff line which is the main reason aside from pet to use it.

Archery is fine if you spec into it you get damage, though I do agree they should add a little flare to it just so it's interesting.
Archers should always see Assassins first. There is zero logical reason why they should be on par with Archers.

See that? Cool that we can both throw garbage and have it mean the same thing.

Can you tell me exactly when stealth detection range was like this on live? What date/year....I'm sorry to inform you that you won't find it anywhere because archer's never had 150 stealth detection range.....ever.

Beastcraft is fine? Yeah so is pathfinding right? How about assassins get no buffs and archers keep pathfinding/bc. I'd be good with that. How about you?
Ceremon - 50 Luri Ranger - Shelved
Cerebeboned - 50 BD Farm
Cereberunnin - Skald - On hold
Cerebeblades - 50 Shar Ranger
Cerebeblind - Scout - made you use purge! HA!

Re: Archers need love

#178
Kappu wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:04 pm
Assassins should always see an Archer/Minstrel first. There is zero logical reason why either should be on par with assassins.

Beastcraft does give you an advantage in a duel it cuts chance to evade in half. It has a decent buff line which is the main reason aside from pet to use it.

Archery is fine if you spec into it you get damage, though I do agree they should add a little flare to it just so it's interesting.
This really is a clueless post. Charges and pots give better buffs then a spec line. The pet is useless. There is no reason to spec high in either archery or BS for an archer with a pet....LOL

And the stealth detection is a joke. There is zero logic that sins have better detection then archers.

Re: Archers need love

#179
AngelRose wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:28 pm
Kappu wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:04 pm
Assassins should always see an Archer/Minstrel first. There is zero logical reason why either should be on par with assassins.

Beastcraft does give you an advantage in a duel it cuts chance to evade in half. It has a decent buff line which is the main reason aside from pet to use it.

Archery is fine if you spec into it you get damage, though I do agree they should add a little flare to it just so it's interesting.
This really is a clueless post. Charges and pots give better buffs then a spec line. The pet is useless. There is no reason to spec high in either archery or BS for an archer with a pet....LOL

And the stealth detection is a joke. There is zero logic that sins have better detection then archers.
Charges do give better than beastcraft/pathfinding. But the pots are worse depending on spec. For a hunter getting 32 BC for their insta puppy, the dex/qui buff is better than the pot. Their lvl 30 dex/qui buff should give 42 dex/qui vs the pots 39 dex/qui. (only 3 points at that point but still better and lasts twice as long) Speccing for buffs gives the buff delve value a 1.25 times modifier. If the hunter goes 40 BC for whatever reason they will get 52 dex/qui from their buff.

The same applies to Ranger Pathfinding buffs. The only thing I am uncertain on, is if the spec AF buff delve also gets the 1.25 multiplier or not. If it does, it might better than an af charge. (I forget the values on spec af atm)
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Re: Archers need love

#180
Auranyte wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:57 pm
AngelRose wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:28 pm
Kappu wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:04 pm
Assassins should always see an Archer/Minstrel first. There is zero logical reason why either should be on par with assassins.

Beastcraft does give you an advantage in a duel it cuts chance to evade in half. It has a decent buff line which is the main reason aside from pet to use it.

Archery is fine if you spec into it you get damage, though I do agree they should add a little flare to it just so it's interesting.
This really is a clueless post. Charges and pots give better buffs then a spec line. The pet is useless. There is no reason to spec high in either archery or BS for an archer with a pet....LOL

And the stealth detection is a joke. There is zero logic that sins have better detection then archers.
Charges do give better than beastcraft/pathfinding. But the pots are worse depending on spec. For a hunter getting 32 BC for their insta puppy, the dex/qui buff is better than the pot. Their lvl 30 dex/qui buff should give 42 dex/qui vs the pots 39 dex/qui. (only 3 points at that point but still better and lasts twice as long) Speccing for buffs gives the buff delve value a 1.25 times modifier. If the hunter goes 40 BC for whatever reason they will get 52 dex/qui from their buff.

The same applies to Ranger Pathfinding buffs. The only thing I am uncertain on, is if the spec AF buff delve also gets the 1.25 multiplier or not. If it does, it might better than an af charge. (I forget the values on spec af atm)
The AF buff does get the modifier, and the red AF is better than the charge by 5 points. Definitely not worth the spec points, especially when you consider everyone out there is running buff pots at a base level, so even if you do spec low 30s to get the technically 'better' buffs (in PF, the spec dex/qui at 29 gets you 2 more dex/qui than the pot buffs), you have to consider that you are spending all those points to have zero effect on the fight. If you do spec higher, you have to spend a far greater amount of spec points for what amounts to a marginal stat advantage.

The buffs in BC and PF, from a spec perspective, only make sense in a world where everyone else who doesn't have the ability to buff themselves isn't buffed (or is grouped, and that's a different scenario altogether). Right now it makes far more sense to even just use base buff pots (not even counting charges, which surpass the spec line buffs), and then put your spec points in the actual ability spec lines to get your value and advantage.

If they changed high level BC and PF to include full lines of buffs which far surpassed pots/charges, then we'd be looking at a scenario that was more like the original crafted design of the classes.