Re: Volley

#71
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:57 pm
If only you could equip a shield or RUN UNDER A ROOF.... if only....

Funny, some of the other counters you mentioned are far more complicated or require specific class abilities. My Merc has had ZERO issues dealing with volley. I just run back under cover and walk around with my shield equipped. Problem solved, problem staying solved.
What roof are you saying keep attackers run under while the gate is closed? You understand what a locked keep is right? Additionally the fact you're still running for cover with a shield equipped is proof enough it does not solve volleys from CY issue

The counters to other abilities I listed are shared among multuple classes which is why those RA's are balanced.
In volley's case the only realistic counter is unrealistic ability to follow the CY archer with GT's to keep him rupted wih your own volley, which demands an archer specifically with a certain RA. That is not balanced

"but there are gtaoe casters too!" not with 3k range there aren't

Re: Volley

#72
easytoremember wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:33 pm
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:35 pm
Stopping an unnecessary whine thread in its tracks however, is totally worth it.
Keep trying to write it off as whining as you like

When someone MoC's you can Amnesia to rupt and make use of mez/stun, NS cuts range (30 seconds, 15 minute RuT)
MoC spell effect plays
The caster needs range of spell he's using and LOS

When someone juggernauts their pet you CC it or keep it out of melee range (60 seconds, 15 minute RuT)
The pet turns huge
The caster initially needs 500 or 1000 range with his pet, forget which, and inside 2000 to heal. The soruce of the RA's effect, the pet, is an immediately present target/killable thing

Someone drops TWF/NM you crawl out of it or break LOS with center (15 minute RuT)
The affected area has a graphical marker
The caster needs 1500 range and LOS of GT, due to this the caster is vulnerable before and after cast

Catapults once you locate can be catapulted in return or GT'd down because they're IMMOBILE
The affected area has the rubble smoke cloud effect

A Volley from keep CY has no counter because they're MOBILE (15 second RuT)
You can't stun because they're not in LOS
You can't mez because they're not in LOS
You can't NS because they're not in LOS
You can't amnesia because they're not in LOS
You can't target because they're not in LOS

The best you can do is try to GTAoE or Volley them, but they move a bit and resume Volley because they aren't bound to any given spot, their range is huge, and they do not need LOS
Wall climbers are all melee, putting aside that defenders and guards will ruin their day, only minstrels have a range rupt/cc with access to a spot to potentially harass CY archers, but they too are melee; they're not going to kill an archer with 2 ranged dd's and dropping into CY is suicide. More important than the minstrel being ineffective as a counter is that only Albion has them

Pets entering closed keep to chase an archer is ineffective as a counter and is a bug to begin with
Wearing a shield (presuming it's anywhere near as effective as you claim) is not a counter to volley, you're just taking it

'Just move out of they volley' Rams and catapults are static things, they can't be moved
The volley itself has no marker
If you're hugging keepwall and the volley is set 300 units behind you, you retreat through 650 units of volley, not 350
Again, the duration component of the volley is one of he largest problems with it; otherwise being a sort of
skillshot as GTAoE, it is instead a tempoary area with no damage falloff

Volley is an RA. It's overpowered in closed keep scenarios similar to TWF and NM having been overpowered in CK/Tower scenariois, only TWF/NM were op in offensive, volley is so in that the archer is impervious to their targets outside the keep before, during, and after cast

In the first place, response to a volley begins with discerning if there is even a volley occurring or if it's a sniper thanks to targeting of normal archer attacker not occurring until the 2nd arrow hits, lest you spam LT and grab the target midway to 2nd arrow landing
Less classes can counter moc than those that can counter volley

Re: Volley

#73
gotwqqd wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:34 am
easytoremember wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:33 pm
Keep trying to write it off as whining as you like

When someone MoC's you can Amnesia to rupt and make use of mez/stun, NS cuts range (30 seconds, 15 minute RuT)
MoC spell effect plays
The caster needs range of spell he's using and LOS

When someone juggernauts their pet you CC it or keep it out of melee range (60 seconds, 15 minute RuT)
The pet turns huge
The caster initially needs 500 or 1000 range with his pet, forget which, and inside 2000 to heal. The soruce of the RA's effect, the pet, is an immediately present target/killable thing

Someone drops TWF/NM you crawl out of it or break LOS with center (15 minute RuT)
The affected area has a graphical marker
The caster needs 1500 range and LOS of GT, due to this the caster is vulnerable before and after cast

Catapults once you locate can be catapulted in return or GT'd down because they're IMMOBILE
The affected area has the rubble smoke cloud effect

A Volley from keep CY has no counter because they're MOBILE (15 second RuT)
You can't stun because they're not in LOS
You can't mez because they're not in LOS
You can't NS because they're not in LOS
You can't amnesia because they're not in LOS
You can't target because they're not in LOS

The best you can do is try to GTAoE or Volley them, but they move a bit and resume Volley because they aren't bound to any given spot, their range is huge, and they do not need LOS
Wall climbers are all melee, putting aside that defenders and guards will ruin their day, only minstrels have a range rupt/cc with access to a spot to potentially harass CY archers, but they too are melee; they're not going to kill an archer with 2 ranged dd's and dropping into CY is suicide. More important than the minstrel being ineffective as a counter is that only Albion has them

Pets entering closed keep to chase an archer is ineffective as a counter and is a bug to begin with
Wearing a shield (presuming it's anywhere near as effective as you claim) is not a counter to volley, you're just taking it

'Just move out of they volley' Rams and catapults are static things, they can't be moved
The volley itself has no marker
If you're hugging keepwall and the volley is set 300 units behind you, you retreat through 650 units of volley, not 350
Again, the duration component of the volley is one of he largest problems with it; otherwise being a sort of
skillshot as GTAoE, it is instead a tempoary area with no damage falloff

Volley is an RA. It's overpowered in closed keep scenarios similar to TWF and NM having been overpowered in CK/Tower scenariois, only TWF/NM were op in offensive, volley is so in that the archer is impervious to their targets outside the keep before, during, and after cast

In the first place, response to a volley begins with discerning if there is even a volley occurring or if it's a sniper thanks to targeting of normal archer attacker not occurring until the 2nd arrow hits, lest you spam LT and grab the target midway to 2nd arrow landing
Less classes can counter moc than those that can counter volley
Which classes are you saying counter CY volley?

Re: Volley

#74
easytoremember wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:19 am
gotwqqd wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:34 am
easytoremember wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:33 pm
Keep trying to write it off as whining as you like

When someone MoC's you can Amnesia to rupt and make use of mez/stun, NS cuts range (30 seconds, 15 minute RuT)
MoC spell effect plays
The caster needs range of spell he's using and LOS

When someone juggernauts their pet you CC it or keep it out of melee range (60 seconds, 15 minute RuT)
The pet turns huge
The caster initially needs 500 or 1000 range with his pet, forget which, and inside 2000 to heal. The soruce of the RA's effect, the pet, is an immediately present target/killable thing

Someone drops TWF/NM you crawl out of it or break LOS with center (15 minute RuT)
The affected area has a graphical marker
The caster needs 1500 range and LOS of GT, due to this the caster is vulnerable before and after cast

Catapults once you locate can be catapulted in return or GT'd down because they're IMMOBILE
The affected area has the rubble smoke cloud effect

A Volley from keep CY has no counter because they're MOBILE (15 second RuT)
You can't stun because they're not in LOS
You can't mez because they're not in LOS
You can't NS because they're not in LOS
You can't amnesia because they're not in LOS
You can't target because they're not in LOS

The best you can do is try to GTAoE or Volley them, but they move a bit and resume Volley because they aren't bound to any given spot, their range is huge, and they do not need LOS
Wall climbers are all melee, putting aside that defenders and guards will ruin their day, only minstrels have a range rupt/cc with access to a spot to potentially harass CY archers, but they too are melee; they're not going to kill an archer with 2 ranged dd's and dropping into CY is suicide. More important than the minstrel being ineffective as a counter is that only Albion has them

Pets entering closed keep to chase an archer is ineffective as a counter and is a bug to begin with
Wearing a shield (presuming it's anywhere near as effective as you claim) is not a counter to volley, you're just taking it

'Just move out of they volley' Rams and catapults are static things, they can't be moved
The volley itself has no marker
If you're hugging keepwall and the volley is set 300 units behind you, you retreat through 650 units of volley, not 350
Again, the duration component of the volley is one of he largest problems with it; otherwise being a sort of
skillshot as GTAoE, it is instead a tempoary area with no damage falloff

Volley is an RA. It's overpowered in closed keep scenarios similar to TWF and NM having been overpowered in CK/Tower scenariois, only TWF/NM were op in offensive, volley is so in that the archer is impervious to their targets outside the keep before, during, and after cast

In the first place, response to a volley begins with discerning if there is even a volley occurring or if it's a sniper thanks to targeting of normal archer attacker not occurring until the 2nd arrow hits, lest you spam LT and grab the target midway to 2nd arrow landing
Less classes can counter moc than those that can counter volley
Which classes are you saying counter CY volley?
For starters, other Archers with Volley lol. Also, any class that can man a gtaoe siege weapon.
The Drunken Ranger!-keeping Devs honest since 2012
Also playing a dual-wielding Saracen
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsY42S ... 7koW7oFZug

The Drunken Ranger’s Guide to Drunken Rangery
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewto ... =23&t=2902

Re: Volley

#75
Let me summarize 9 pages of this thread:

This one class that makes up about .5% of the RvR population (in Albion anyway) has an ability that they spend 8 RP to gain. This ability is useless in all scenarios except keep and tower attack/defense. Well folks...it killed a guy once. So now we must nerf it to the point where it is useless without 6 assisting friends coordinating their attack so that never happens again.

The end.

P.S. In the words of our creator Mark Jacobs. "Working as Intended"

Re: Volley

#76
Cadebrennus wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:45 am
For starters, other Archers with Volley lol. Also, any class that can man a gtaoe siege weapon.
From the post you quoted:
"The best you can do is try to GTAoE or Volley them, but they move a bit and resume Volley because they aren't bound to any given spot, their range is huge, and they do not need LOS"

From the post above it:
"In volley's case the only realistic counter is unrealistic ability to follow the CY archer with GT's to keep him rupted wih your own volley, which demands an archer specifically with a certain RA. That is not balanced

'but there are gtaoe casters too!' not with 3k range there aren't"


As for siege weapons, you can't target them directly without targeting them first, and in the case you somehow do they just enter stealth for a second to break your target, or even better leave your catapult's range and continue
volleying you from 3k
Makrist wrote: This ability is useless in all scenarios except keep and tower attack/defense.
'An ability that permits to you to completely conceal your location using an obstruction between you and your target is useless in all scenariois outside keep/tower defense'
if your iq is potato

Re: Volley

#77
easytoremember wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:57 pm
Cadebrennus wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:45 am
For starters, other Archers with Volley lol. Also, any class that can man a gtaoe siege weapon.
From the post you quoted:
"The best you can do is try to GTAoE or Volley them, but they move a bit and resume Volley because they aren't bound to any given spot, their range is huge, and they do not need LOS"

From the post above it:
"In volley's case the only realistic counter is unrealistic ability to follow the CY archer with GT's to keep him rupted wih your own volley, which demands an archer specifically with a certain RA. That is not balanced

'but there are gtaoe casters too!' not with 3k range there aren't"


As for siege weapons, you can't target them directly without targeting them first, and in the case you somehow do they just enter stealth for a second to break your target, or even better leave your catapult's range and continue
volleying you from 3k
Makrist wrote: This ability is useless in all scenarios except keep and tower attack/defense.
'An ability that permits to you to completely conceal your location using an obstruction between you and your target is useless in all scenariois outside keep/tower defense'
if your iq is potato
.
.
Image
The Drunken Ranger!-keeping Devs honest since 2012
Also playing a dual-wielding Saracen
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsY42S ... 7koW7oFZug

The Drunken Ranger’s Guide to Drunken Rangery
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewto ... =23&t=2902

Re: Volley

#79
easytoremember wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:55 pm
Cadebrennus wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:54 pm
Image
Are you just too intelligent to put your reasoning into words?
Most of the time your responses are too dumb to even waste words on.
The Drunken Ranger!-keeping Devs honest since 2012
Also playing a dual-wielding Saracen
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsY42S ... 7koW7oFZug

The Drunken Ranger’s Guide to Drunken Rangery
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewto ... =23&t=2902

Re: Volley

#80
Nah...i totally remember the last time in a 1v1 encounter i was able to line up a GT on a toon standing in one spot and get off an attack that took 5 seconds to execute before they moved. Of course once they moved i was out of LOS for regular shots and out of bow range unstealthed in the frontiers....no issue there if you like camping greys xping.

Oh...what about the time we attacked with an 8man...oh wait. Scouts arent invited to 8man runs. Nevermind

But this one time...at scout camp...see we were in a zerg and we met another zerg...i was able to ground target their bard...yeah, thats it. See then he moved and i had to sprint to catch up as one zerg drew the other in.

Volley is useless in 99% of all open field encounters. The pace of RvR is too fast to allow its setup requirements to be effective. It's almost like you have never RvR'd as a scout and have no idea what in the hell you are talking about. Potato indeed.