Evenom on other people's weapons @everyone

Started 17 Aug 2019
by kciztranzlucent
in RvR
So I think it's kinda a joke that certain people aka nesrenik is now running envenomed weapons. So not only is it pathetic how to rangers are in melee with ip and everything but now hes just running envenom weapons. And it's so easy with the account vault people can do it them selves so what advantage is it to be playing an assassin when you can put envenom on other people's weapons such as your self or what not. Should there not be some sort of envenom skill to be able to use them ???? @gm
Sat 17 Aug 2019 6:10 PM by Irkeno
The fact that there isn't a skill check when the poison attempts to go off blows my mind.
Sat 17 Aug 2019 7:02 PM by Mavella
I thought this was already changed where you can't envenom others weapons? Maybe something got inadvertently reverted after the client kerfuffle a few months back?

2018-8-27 Monday
initial work on falling damage
some reskin model fixes (sb champ 2h, battler 2h)
automated shutdown announcement for restarts
market explorer delving fixes
housing repo fixes
market search fixes
only assassin classes can use poisoned weapons
market explorer markup is no longer included in consignment logs
consignment log shows the last 3 days
minstrel charming for high level mobs changed
basic rp pool for keep takes
collection tasks can no longer be turned in when xp gain is turned off
potential fix for stealther not becoming visible after stealth opener
wild arcana support for snare dd
celerity delve fix


File a bug report.
Sat 17 Aug 2019 7:07 PM by Freedomcall
I've also seen a scout using diseased weapon for kiting.
Sat 17 Aug 2019 7:10 PM by Clartiex
Mavella wrote:
Sat 17 Aug 2019 7:02 PM
I thought this was already changed where you can't envenom others weapons? Maybe something got inadvertently reverted after the client kerfuffle a few months back?

2018-8-27 Monday
initial work on falling damage
some reskin model fixes (sb champ 2h, battler 2h)
automated shutdown announcement for restarts
market explorer delving fixes
housing repo fixes
market search fixes
only assassin classes can use poisoned weapons
market explorer markup is no longer included in consignment logs
consignment log shows the last 3 days
minstrel charming for high level mobs changed
basic rp pool for keep takes
collection tasks can no longer be turned in when xp gain is turned off
potential fix for stealther not becoming visible after stealth opener
wild arcana support for snare dd
celerity delve fix


File a bug report.

Theres also a rr4 thrust Paladin that is using disease, str/con, and lifebane weapons.
Sat 17 Aug 2019 7:12 PM by kciztranzlucent
Yeah its definitely not fixed because home boy already is playing a r9 lulranger but hes so garb he has to envenom his weapons too lolololol dirty dirty
Sat 17 Aug 2019 7:18 PM by Tigerforce
So it wasn't my imagination
Sat 17 Aug 2019 7:24 PM by FiltyTrator
It's due to the way they implemented the fix. Unprocced weapons can be envenomed, and then used by another player. Poisons on weapons that have their own procs will not work for non-shade classes. This is obviously an exploit, you should report anybody who does it.
Sat 17 Aug 2019 7:36 PM by Campjr
Elno, the Saracen pally is using these in every fight he’s in. Confirmed by numerous players I know.
Sat 17 Aug 2019 11:08 PM by gotwqqd
Not only should envenom get removed when weapon traded, the assassin should be required to have the correct skill when wielding and hitting. No +10(or whatever) on a cap to apply.

I actually would like to see envenom work by spec, no + added
Sat 17 Aug 2019 11:35 PM by florin
I’ve created a ticket
Sat 17 Aug 2019 11:44 PM by Campjr
gotwqqd wrote:
Sat 17 Aug 2019 11:08 PM
Not only should envenom get removed when weapon traded, the assassin should be required to have the correct skill when wielding and hitting. No +10(or whatever) on a cap to apply.

I actually would like to see envenom work by spec, no + added

Just stop...

Care to share what classes you play?
Sun 18 Aug 2019 2:11 AM by trawetsnivek
gotwqqd wrote:
Sat 17 Aug 2019 11:08 PM
Not only should envenom get removed when weapon traded, the assassin should be required to have the correct skill when wielding and hitting. No +10(or whatever) on a cap to apply.

I actually would like to see envenom work by spec, no + added

I find this idea absurd and I don't even play an assassin.
Sun 18 Aug 2019 4:35 AM by gruenesschaf
Looks like that was broken back in march when the level requirement was supposed to be changed to the actual poison level instead of the default spell level + 5.

Just for the curious, exactly how it was broken technically:

As part of the level requirement change some cleanup was done on the code, among other things this here was changed:
if (this is GamePlayer pl && spellLine.KeyName.Equals("Mundane Poisons")
to
if (spellLine == SkillBase.KnownSpellLines.MundanePoisons)

One would assume that seems sensible, however, for insane legacy reasons on each proc a new spell line instance is used (one of the bigger projects in the future to make all spell casting stuff sane and actually only use a single spell line instance per spell line and same for spells globally), making this equality check fail as it is an actual object instance equality check and not a value / name based one. The fix now was to actually use the single poison spell line instance as this particular usage does not (well, should not :p) have the insane legacy reason why a new instance is required.
Changing the spell line equality behavior would also have been an option and likely fix a couple minor cases around item spells / effects but given the insanity around it (the reason for using a new instance in the first place) it would probably lead to unexpected behavior in some weird corner case.
Sun 18 Aug 2019 11:08 AM by Nehm
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 18 Aug 2019 4:35 AM
Looks like that was broken back in march when the level requirement was supposed to be changed to the actual poison level instead of the default spell level + 5.

Just for the curious, exactly how it was broken technically:

As part of the level requirement change some cleanup was done on the code, among other things this here was changed:
if (this is GamePlayer pl && spellLine.KeyName.Equals("Mundane Poisons")
to
if (spellLine == SkillBase.KnownSpellLines.MundanePoisons)

One would assume that seems sensible, however, for insane legacy reasons on each proc a new spell line instance is used (one of the bigger projects in the future to make all spell casting stuff sane and actually only use a single spell line instance per spell line and same for spells globally), making this equality check fail as it is an actual object instance equality check and not a value / name based one. The fix now was to actually use the single poison spell line instance as this particular usage does not (well, should not :p) have the insane legacy reason why a new instance is required.
Changing the spell line equality behavior would also have been an option and likely fix a couple minor cases around item spells / effects but given the insanity around it (the reason for using a new instance in the first place) it would probably lead to unexpected behavior in some weird corner case.

I think you need to simplify this a bit So is this major gamechanging bug going to be fixed asap, or is it free for us to keep using it? If it's not fixed very soon I need to start stacking up on weapons and lvl my Inf.
Sun 18 Aug 2019 12:20 PM by ddelmarle
from my memory when i was playing on live if you disconnect your character, the poison would be cleared. so that wasnt possible
Sun 18 Aug 2019 12:41 PM by keen
ddelmarle wrote:
Sun 18 Aug 2019 12:20 PM
from my memory when i was playing on live if you disconnect your character, the poison would be cleared. so that wasnt possible
was possible on live.
Sun 18 Aug 2019 12:47 PM by ddelmarle
keen wrote:
Sun 18 Aug 2019 12:41 PM
ddelmarle wrote:
Sun 18 Aug 2019 12:20 PM
from my memory when i was playing on live if you disconnect your character, the poison would be cleared. so that wasnt possible
was possible on live.

i remember clearly on my inf before toa era anytime i reconnected, poisons would be reset on weapons. maybe you remember from an later period, that i dont know
Sun 18 Aug 2019 4:46 PM by Turano
poisons did stick on weapons on live, even after logout. With toa you could put mezz poison or sun belt weapons in your vault and they would not disappear over logout there
Sun 18 Aug 2019 10:50 PM by relvinian
Weapon swapping should not work either.
Mon 19 Aug 2019 1:29 AM by gotwqqd
relvinian wrote:
Sun 18 Aug 2019 10:50 PM
Weapon swapping should not work either.

Agree with this too
I’d Change the whole in venom set up and compensate by getting some initial damage and offhand buffed
Mon 19 Aug 2019 4:30 AM by Torye
Strange but something I'll have to double check, I've actually had to re-apply poisons when I've logged in. I hadn't had to do that till just recently.



Snik
Mon 19 Aug 2019 4:46 AM by sabyrtuth
The poisons only clear after a server restart.
Mon 19 Aug 2019 6:48 AM by Elvis
relvinian wrote:
Sun 18 Aug 2019 10:50 PM
Weapon swapping should not work either.

Believe me. You do not want to open Pandora's box.

When they changed envenom on live to be some kind of offensive proc at first this was really cool. No need to buy 16+ weapons anymore. Way cheaper! But before the Change only the better Players used envenom at its full potential. Post change every fucking zerg sin ist giving you the full poison load. That makes it only more difficult to win 1vsX assassins.
Tue 20 Aug 2019 7:08 AM by Sepplord
so, did anyone get a warning ban for exploiting this, or are things like this free to exploit as hard and as much as possible until they are fixed?
Tue 20 Aug 2019 8:57 AM by inoeth
Sepplord wrote:
Tue 20 Aug 2019 7:08 AM
so, did anyone get a warning ban for exploiting this, or are things like this free to exploit as hard and as much as possible until they are fixed?

met nesretnik yesterday after patch... seems nothing happened to the exploiters, like always
its a feature until it gets changed
Tue 20 Aug 2019 10:32 AM by Lillebror
relvinian wrote:
Sun 18 Aug 2019 10:50 PM
Weapon swapping should not work either.

Im very up for this IF we get back our restart lifebane tick every manual swap
Tue 20 Aug 2019 12:58 PM by inoeth
Lillebror wrote:
Tue 20 Aug 2019 10:32 AM
relvinian wrote:
Sun 18 Aug 2019 10:50 PM
Weapon swapping should not work either.

Im very up for this IF we get back our restart lifebane tick every manual swap

read again... if weapon swap does not work, how can you swap weapons then?
Tue 20 Aug 2019 1:07 PM by Turano
no more weapon swapping? Archers having to choose if using bow OR meele weapons for a fight beforehand sounds fun
Tue 20 Aug 2019 1:26 PM by ExcretusMaximus
Turano wrote:
Tue 20 Aug 2019 1:07 PM
no more weapon swapping? Archers having to choose if using bow OR meele weapons for a fight beforehand sounds fun


They already have a bow and melee equipped; these guys are suggesting that they remove the ability to take a weapon from your inventory and equip it mid-fight.
Tue 20 Aug 2019 1:49 PM by Chopsticks
Wouldn't that stop anyone who swaps their weps to get + dmg on targets though ?
Tue 20 Aug 2019 2:09 PM by ExcretusMaximus
Chopsticks wrote:
Tue 20 Aug 2019 1:49 PM
Wouldn't that stop anyone who swaps their weps to get + dmg on targets though ?


Sure would.

I'm not saying I agree with them, just what they're talking about.
Tue 20 Aug 2019 2:46 PM by Chopsticks
Fair enough, don't get me wrong I play infil and I dislike those who swap wep every swing. More of a old school purist about this stuff, but to remove it, can of worms i'm not helping open
Tue 20 Aug 2019 3:41 PM by gotwqqd
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Tue 20 Aug 2019 1:26 PM
Turano wrote:
Tue 20 Aug 2019 1:07 PM
no more weapon swapping? Archers having to choose if using bow OR meele weapons for a fight beforehand sounds fun


They already have a bow and melee equipped; these guys are suggesting that they remove the ability to take a weapon from your inventory and equip it mid-fight.
No I think the point would be poison can only be applied to equipped weapons
You put in bags poison is removed
So two poisons available
Tue 20 Aug 2019 3:47 PM by Campjr
gotwqqd wrote:
Tue 20 Aug 2019 3:41 PM
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Tue 20 Aug 2019 1:26 PM
Turano wrote:
Tue 20 Aug 2019 1:07 PM
no more weapon swapping? Archers having to choose if using bow OR meele weapons for a fight beforehand sounds fun


They already have a bow and melee equipped; these guys are suggesting that they remove the ability to take a weapon from your inventory and equip it mid-fight.
No I think the point would be poison can only be applied to equipped weapons
You put in bags poison is removed
So two poisons available

you are clearly biased for whatever reason and bring no logic to the convo.
Tue 20 Aug 2019 9:02 PM by gotwqqd
Campjr wrote:
Tue 20 Aug 2019 3:47 PM
gotwqqd wrote:
Tue 20 Aug 2019 3:41 PM
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Tue 20 Aug 2019 1:26 PM
They already have a bow and melee equipped; these guys are suggesting that they remove the ability to take a weapon from your inventory and equip it mid-fight.
No I think the point would be poison can only be applied to equipped weapons
You put in bags poison is removed
So two poisons available

you are clearly biased for whatever reason and bring no logic to the convo.
Bows right hand left hand and two hander are all slotted in person
Not in bags
And what does logic have to do with it
Thu 22 Aug 2019 6:49 AM by Lillebror
inoeth wrote:
Tue 20 Aug 2019 12:58 PM
Lillebror wrote:
Tue 20 Aug 2019 10:32 AM
relvinian wrote:
Sun 18 Aug 2019 10:50 PM
Weapon swapping should not work either.

Im very up for this IF we get back our restart lifebane tick every manual swap

read again... if weapon swap does not work, how can you swap weapons then?

Its a huge huge diffrence if You swap with macroes or scripts or if You manually swap weapons from inventory. Its a trade off, You can move like an idiot and melee your possisionals and Get ppl out of view or You swap weapons from inventory manually. And som insane sick ppl managed to do both

Edit: nerf to only equiped and you would have to compensate with way better damage and that would fuck off balanse for sure
Thu 22 Aug 2019 3:43 PM by chryso
Lillebror wrote:
Thu 22 Aug 2019 6:49 AM
nerf to only equiped and you would have to compensate with way better damage and that would fuck off balanse for sure

No you wouldn't. Assassins primarily fight other assassins anyway. No damage change needed.
Thu 22 Aug 2019 9:37 PM by Lillebror
chryso wrote:
Thu 22 Aug 2019 3:43 PM
Lillebror wrote:
Thu 22 Aug 2019 6:49 AM
nerf to only equiped and you would have to compensate with way better damage and that would fuck off balanse for sure

No you wouldn't. Assassins primarily fight other assassins anyway. No damage change needed.

It might be what i fight and have a fair chance to win vs, but its not all i fight, but then again i never Learn and jump champs, Sm`s and what ever insane «solo» char. Some day i might be lucky and he is on the phone or wc while i jump them and win. You never know =)
Thu 22 Aug 2019 9:43 PM by Sepplord
chryso wrote:
Thu 22 Aug 2019 3:43 PM
Lillebror wrote:
Thu 22 Aug 2019 6:49 AM
nerf to only equiped and you would have to compensate with way better damage and that would fuck off balanse for sure

No you wouldn't. Assassins primarily fight other assassins anyway. No damage change needed.

That must be one of the dumbest arguments made on this forum.

I don't even understand why lille even cared to seriously reply to that, as it can't possibly be meant seriously. And if it is all hope for a reasonable discussion is lost anyways
Fri 23 Aug 2019 9:48 AM by Lux.Thoras
Lillebror wrote:
Thu 22 Aug 2019 6:49 AM
Its a huge huge diffrence if You swap with macroes or scripts or if You manually swap weapons from inventory. Its a trade off, You can move like an idiot and melee your possisionals and Get ppl out of view or You swap weapons from inventory manually. And som insane sick ppl managed to do both

Edit: nerf to only equiped and you would have to compensate with way better damage and that would fuck off balanse for sure

I already thought about that and wrote it in the Weapon skill DeBuff Thread and I think there should be a possibility to increase this.
For example if the assassin is skilling also Viper as RA, then he gets with each level access to an additional weapon in the inventory he can put poison on.
In the end, Viper will not only increase the poison damage, it will also increase the number of weapons which can be poisoned at one same time.

Because then the assassin can decide either he can live with 3 poisoned weapons without spending RA points into Viper or if he wants to specialize on this poison stuff.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 9:53 AM by Turano
How about casters are only allowed to use 3 spells per spell line per fight? And with mastery of focus they can up that number so with mastery of focus 9 a firewizz could use up to 12 fire spells per fight!!

I can't take you guys serious anymore
Fri 23 Aug 2019 9:59 AM by Lux.Thoras
Turano wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 9:53 AM
How about casters are only allowed to use 3 spells per spell line per fight? And with mastery of focus they can up that number so with mastery of focus 9 a firewizz could use up to 12 fire spells per fight!!

I can't take you guys serious anymore

This is a stupid comparison. A caster can be hindered to cast. Poisoned Weapon switching not. So please stay objective. A caster has to skill MOC to be not interrupted and then he is losing 25% of his damage.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 10:23 AM by Sepplord
Lux.Thoras wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 9:59 AM
Turano wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 9:53 AM
How about casters are only allowed to use 3 spells per spell line per fight? And with mastery of focus they can up that number so with mastery of focus 9 a firewizz could use up to 12 fire spells per fight!!

I can't take you guys serious anymore

This is a stupid comparison. A caster can be hindered to cast. Poisoned Weapon switching not. So please stay objective. A caster has to skill MOC to be not interrupted and then he is losing 25% of his damage.

a caster also can do it at range


but i agree that these comaprisons are ridiculous, but turano even said he can't take such an argument seriously, so i doubt his reply is serious.

But he has a point, suddenly advocating for an assassin change to disallow repoisoning (or requiring a heavy realmpoint investment) has no basis at all. What is the reasoning for this? It really is similar to making Casters get an RA to cast multiple spells. Because both proposals are outrageously retarded
Fri 23 Aug 2019 10:50 AM by Lux.Thoras
I think no one said that the Idea shall be the 100% final solution, but I think it is a good starting point to think about that.
If we talk about "Spells" from a caster, we have to compare it with the styles of an melee and with nothing else. As far as I know, no one was talking about changing something on the styles for melees / assassins or ?

The original discussion was why it is still possible to put poison on weapons from “NON” assassins, right ? Out of that discussion the idea was that it is also somehow crazy that it is possible to have 10-20 weapons poisoned in the inventory and there is no real limitation to it.

I compare now what was done already, also if I do not want such a compare but I use it for an example:

If a caster is casting a DOT or a Disease, I can run to him, hit him and prevent him from recast it. If the Caster wants to cast further, he can decide to spent many RA points into MOC, then he can do it for 30 seconds and he is also losing around 25% of his damage.
Also I can decide to purge the DOT or the Disease or to use the purge for a CC I want to purge.

For poison usage there is no limitation as the size of your bag and the amount of weapons you can put into. So to say the usage of poison can be somehow abused to increase the damage and debuff of every enemy without the possibility to have something against.


I know that this example is not the best one but I wanted to show the thinking behind the proposals, at least coming from my side. Every better idea or proposal or any better argument against for this a change I am open for. I think a fair discussion about that brings more than unrealistic personal untopic stuff.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 11:16 AM by Taniquetil
Lux.Thoras wrote: I think no one said that the Idea shall be the 100% final solution, but I think it is a good starting point to think about that.


I wasnt being serious i was making a sarcastic point because your point is entirely ridiculous given the game context. Weapon swaps are essential to sins as we're given an entire line of poisons to spend points in, yet your suggestion restricts you to using 1 or 2 of those poisons maximum. Its a nonsense argument.

Your Paladin can and should win vs sins if you play to your class strengths.

Either way, I dont think the GMs will take any comments too seriously on this. The QOL is there for all, most sins dont even utilise it that well at all tbh and complaining that someone was smart enough to reapply poisons to you after you purge is, ridiculous.

Sins fighting sins know that its a fools errand to do that, you have to accept that you're going to be debuffed, just like you have to accept it fighting vs a champion. You wouldnt debuff a chanters heat debuff... same rules apply.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 12:25 PM by Lillebror
For giggles and flavor, if you used a weapon that had envenom on it, and you didn t have the proper skill, it could backfire ^^
Fri 23 Aug 2019 12:42 PM by Lux.Thoras
Taniquetil wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 11:16 AM
I wasnt being serious i was making a sarcastic point because your point is entirely ridiculous given the game context. Weapon swaps are essential to sins as we're given an entire line of poisons to spend points in, yet your suggestion restricts you to using 1 or 2 of those poisons maximum. Its a nonsense argument.
...

Again, I cannot see anyone who said, restrict it to 1 or 2. In my suggestion it would be between 3 and 8 and this is far away from beeing nonsense and rediculous. This is a way of constructive input into an discussion without pointing to another persons opinion with "rediculous" or "nonsense".

I accept yout point as your opinion, but i also think this discussion affects much nore than only 2 of us and there are much more smarter guys, than me, which could have a better / smarter idea how to improve.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 2:45 PM by Taniquetil
Lux.Thoras wrote: I accept yout point as your opinion, but i also think this discussion affects much nore than only 2 of us and there are much more smarter guys, than me, which could have a better / smarter idea how to improve.

Just FYI again the devs have solved the non assassins having access to envenom weaps. Pretty sure you knew but just to be sure.

Anyway, lets put it this way. I'm 99% certain that there will be no intention ever for the Devs to change this to anything like what you're suggesting. What you're suggesting would be restricting a class from using a large part of its arsenal (they wouldnt do this). Lets say the 1% happens... for a class that only has access to 1 aggressive active RA what you're asking is hugely debilitating. Wait until all debuffs are applied. Purge. Win.

I made comparisons to point out the somewhat ridiculous nature of the request. You purge against a Champ, or a sorc, or any caster with insta debuffs, you get insta re-debuffed again if they're half way decent. All the re-use timers are suitably short (5sec re use for most insta debuffs, many of which are AOE debuffs). But you're not purging the debuffs.. you're purging the CC, at least I hope. If it was intended to prevent reapplication of poisons you'd get an immunity timer. Which you dont, for any debuffs in the game, period, including spammable disease from eldritch and shaman etc.

Immunities, limitations, timer restrictions etc are strictly limited to effects that make your character unable to function, like crowd control that can totally disable a character, or nearsight which can render a ranged class unable to perform its intended function. Poison however does not render you unable to do anything, except for the mez poison - and guess what, theres an immunity to that one.

In that same manner assassins are resitricted to being able to reapply poisons based on their swing speed and wether or not they hit the target. So putting a limitation on how many times this can be done, or how many weapons can be poisoned is a fools errand.

In an attempt to help you change your playstyle, i'll say it again, if you're purging debuffs vs an assassin you need to adjust your playstyle first and foremost as your approach is flawed. Just as i'd very much hope you wouldnt purge debuffs vs a champion, or a snare from a skald hoping for them not to slam /mezz you straight after.

Last i'll say on it. Good luck. Come see me in the frontiers to get your debuffs some time

Oh, and dont hold out hope for any changes of this nature.

Tani.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 8:11 PM by Campjr
why are you guys debating with a mid RR pally with 25 solo kills... the guy clearly has zero experience in the balance issues hes talking about.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 8:33 PM by Turano
because I like him, he's an old Lyo/alb buddy
Sat 24 Aug 2019 9:51 AM by Sindralor
Logres / Hib had the best cookies
Sat 24 Aug 2019 9:39 PM by Iqupl
I will tell you how to fix this with a two step solution. Both must be implemented to fix this unintended feature.
1. Put a timer on the charge application. I suggest ten minutes, but it could be less and still be worthwhile. After the timer the poison charge would dissipate.
2. Chance to poison self (unresistable) on use, whether resisted by the target or not, would be: POISON_LEVEL - ENVENOM_LEVEL.

So, not only would the time limit of the poison become burdensome to those who try to poison a slew of weapons for their alternate characters, but there would be a small chance of the poisoned weapon user poisoning themself although the target resists.

The reason this is a preferable solution is because you do not want to remove the ability of an assassin from poisoning others' weapons during a super difficult keep defense. However, The weapon ought to pass a slash or pierce check (no crush for future proofing), and this tactic could definitely backfire if the whole keep defense is riding on the success of this attempt.

Other options after this solution is implemented:
1. It would be possible to remove any other on-use check with the chance of poisoning self provision. A level 35 assassin could use a 50 level poison added by a guildmate, but the level 35 assassin would incur a 15% chance to poison self if envenom was also 35. This does have some backstory support, since assassins (notably nightshades) have developed partial immunity to poison they use by having received less than maximum doses through their life.
2. In association with #1, a nondescript damage type POISON could be added with a resist equal to envenom spec. This would give a reason to spec envenom with extra points or gear bonuses, even if the spec line is not part of the character master plan.
Sat 24 Aug 2019 10:23 PM by Bicstor
Iqupl wrote:
Sat 24 Aug 2019 9:39 PM
I will tell you how to fix this with a two step solution. Both must be implemented to fix this unintended feature.
1. Put a timer on the charge application. I suggest ten minutes, but it could be less and still be worthwhile. After the timer the poison charge would dissipate.
2. Chance to poison self (unresistable) on use, whether resisted by the target or not, would be: POISON_LEVEL - ENVENOM_LEVEL.

So, not only would the time limit of the poison become burdensome to those who try to poison a slew of weapons for their alternate characters, but there would be a small chance of the poisoned weapon user poisoning themself although the target resists.

The reason this is a preferable solution is because you do not want to remove the ability of an assassin from poisoning others' weapons during a super difficult keep defense. However, The weapon ought to pass a slash or pierce check (no crush for future proofing), and this tactic could definitely backfire if the whole keep defense is riding on the success of this attempt.

Other options after this solution is implemented:
1. It would be possible to remove any other on-use check with the chance of poisoning self provision. A level 35 assassin could use a 50 level poison added by a guildmate, but the level 35 assassin would incur a 15% chance to poison self if envenom was also 35. This does have some backstory support, since assassins (notably nightshades) have developed partial immunity to poison they use by having received less than maximum doses through their life.
2. In association with #1, a nondescript damage type POISON could be added with a resist equal to envenom spec. This would give a reason to spec envenom with extra points or gear bonuses, even if the spec line is not part of the character master plan.

Or they could just stop players without envenom skill being able to use poisons on weapons. Far simpler, which is what they have done
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