Re: Nerf to volley?

#281
Isavyr wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:27 am
Sepplord wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:35 am
No offense please, but that example is now that 3archers coordinating are killing solos...and we still don't know attacking force and defending force.
It's irrelevant, in my opinion, for the reasons already stated: That volley's "counter" is using the same ability in response--in other words, there is no actual counter.
Sepplord wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:35 am
Is the range REALLY the problem here? If those archers were positioned closer, inside the keep....would the defending force suddenly charge out to kill them? They could coordinate that, but can't coordinate to have people go onto the roof with shield guards and/or healers ready below?
Yes, yes the range is exactly the problem. Basically if an enemy can attack with impunity, people will flee a certain area. This isn't reasonable. Archers need to be included in the DAOC range framework. If you're dealing damage, you should be within nearsight/amnesia range. If the archers were forced to enter the keep, it's certain that they will not be able to volley with impunity; they'd have to deal with assassins, CC, damage, gtae, so forth.
Whats next on the chopping block? I play and hunter and i won't disagree completely with the notion that volley may need an adjustment, but there are 9,000 opinions on what should happen. Then the ball is rolling. Whats next. The next spell or RA that someone dislikes has a thread started so we can devolve it as well? Your last paragraph you mention that archers need to be included in the DAOC range framework. That may be the case, but "then" you could also make the case that GTAoEr's shouldnt be able to hit targets in an enclosed envrionment , like the lord room of a defended keep? Thats how this goes. One thing lead to another, and another, and as i stated in a previous thread, we can all carry sticks to the battlefield and hit each other with those. Same range mechanics, same damage table, same (insert next) and let ROG decide the outcome for us.

DAoC has always been rock/paper/scissors. I love plying my Zerk more than any class, but this patch level with custom changes without New RA charge basically makes me a stun-locked mezzed out knot on a log for an extended amount of time. I'm not calling for a stun nerf, or a mez nerf, or even a nerf between melee stuns and magical stuns (which are on a different timer). I'm not calling for a nerf between constant lock down mode on any of my melee classes. I adapt or i log. Those who havent been banned, or havent quit are doing the same. For the moment i would prefer reasonable conversations with legitimate ideas rather than just saying "swing the nerf hammer" (not suggesting thats what you're saying). Im just offering up the juice for the next round of , " ok you nerfed that..... Next....." :-)

Re: Nerf to volley?

#282
Druth wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:57 am
Last weeks most popular class was rangers.

My guess is that the nerf will hit pretty hard suddenly, destroying archers like with animists, because the discussion dissolves into trench warfare, instead of being constructive.
The current state of the game is attractive for archers. BG vs BG keep attack/defense allows non-melee archers to actually have something to do. Volley is part of that because it is just an attractive RA for the current state of the game. Quite frankly, non melee spec archers are not viable in any other situation. You take the ability to be viable in large scale keep attacks/defense and there is no reason to play one any longer.

Re: Nerf to volley?

#283
Sepplord wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:48 am

I don't think the people that can't coordinate defensives against volley now will be able to do that when the archers are sitting in a sidetower of the keepwall, but you might have a point. I just don't think that it would actually change much about the problem that some percieve in volley currently. But it could give assassins something to do in the siege meta, which would be a good thing.

To get a better grasp about that problem scenario: At how many keeps is this possible at all? At the keeps where it works, what towerlevel is required for it to be possible?
I think the question should be asked the other way around--in what situations do they need 3k+ range? I can't think of one. There is no reason for the ability to be designed around this range, and it doesn't fit into DAOC's framework. Damage range should never exceed amnesia/nearsight, regardless of whether towers or keeps exist.

Also, your reply seems a little silly. Are you telling me casters never get smacked down in keep situations? I see it all day long. An enemy that has to be in range of other enemies is inherently vulnerable. Volley doesn't suffer from any vulnerabilities.

Re: Nerf to volley?

#284
Sleepwell wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:25 pm
Whats next on the chopping block? I play and hunter and i won't disagree completely with the notion that volley may need an adjustment, but there are 9,000 opinions on what should happen. Then the ball is rolling. Whats next. The next spell or RA that someone dislikes has a thread started so we can devolve it as well? Your last paragraph you mention that archers need to be included in the DAOC range framework. That may be the case, but "then" you could also make the case that GTAoEr's shouldnt be able to hit targets in an enclosed envrionment , like the lord room of a defended keep? Thats how this goes. One thing lead to another, and another, and as i stated in a previous thread, we can all carry sticks to the battlefield and hit each other with those. Same range mechanics, same damage table, same (insert next) and let ROG decide the outcome for us.
Volley wasn't there from the beginning, nor designed within DAOC's framework, as GTAE is. So it's illogical to attack GTAE. Which, by the way, is the point of these discussions--to tease out arguments that are logical vs ones that aren't. So I disagree with your "slippery slope" idea that it's somehow dangerous to nerf volley because it's unpopular, when the reasons for its nerf have nothing to do with its popularity.
Sleepwell wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:25 pm
DAoC has always been rock/paper/scissors. I love plying my Zerk more than any class, but this patch level with custom changes without New RA charge basically makes me a stun-locked mezzed out knot on a log for an extended amount of time. I'm not calling for a stun nerf, or a mez nerf, or even a nerf between melee stuns and magical stuns (which are on a different timer). I'm not calling for a nerf between constant lock down mode on any of my melee classes. I adapt or i log. Those who havent been banned, or havent quit are doing the same. For the moment i would prefer reasonable conversations with legitimate ideas rather than just saying "swing the nerf hammer" (not suggesting thats what you're saying). Im just offering up the juice for the next round of , " ok you nerfed that..... Next....." :-)
Your zerk has stoicism + presumably det 9 (your choice), meaning you have the least CC duration in the game. What are you even talking about regarding being CC'd out? If this is happening to your zerker, do you think it might be happening to others even more so? In addition, zerkers have been given climbing walls, which is an advantage to where they were in classic. Your point is a red herring.

Re: Nerf to volley?

#285
Thats your perspective. Red herring? I didnt ask for climb. I'd gladly give up climbing a wall for NF charge which does meet the RA standards. I understand that this is a completely customized server and accept that though. If i choose to play.....

Melee stuns not affected by Det. Yes i pressume that others are affected by cc as much or more than my zerk. Thats why i see so many more sneaks now vs charge tanks for any realm.

Just like any custom change (the whole server for that matter). The question becomes is it worth it? I'm all for accepting the changes that you prescribe. I'm old and wise enough to not care anymore. Ill adapt, or move on :-). It is going to happen with each new change now though. You see the NF voters doing the same thing a month after they moved from NF to OF. I'm totally willing to accept those changes as long as the people who suggest them arent the ones in a month saying... "wtf happned? we lost another 20% of the population.. i just dont understand it...."
Last edited by Sleepwell on Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Nerf to volley?

#286
Horus wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:50 pm
The current state of the game is attractive for archers. BG vs BG keep attack/defense allows non-melee archers to actually have something to do. Volley is part of that because it is just an attractive RA for the current state of the game. Quite frankly, non melee spec archers are not viable in any other situation. You take the ability to be viable in large scale keep attacks/defense and there is no reason to play one any longer.
It isn't one vs the other. Archers were useful in keep situations before volley. And they can continue to be so using volley, even with a shorter range.

Re: Nerf to volley?

#287
Isavyr wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:15 pm
Horus wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:50 pm
The current state of the game is attractive for archers. BG vs BG keep attack/defense allows non-melee archers to actually have something to do. Volley is part of that because it is just an attractive RA for the current state of the game. Quite frankly, non melee spec archers are not viable in any other situation. You take the ability to be viable in large scale keep attacks/defense and there is no reason to play one any longer.
It isn't one vs the other. Archers were useful in keep situations before volley. And they can continue to be so using volley, even with a shorter range.
I was just replying to the quote of why there are more archers playing now...

I would not necessarily be against a shorter range. Right now I can't volley rams on D2 or many places in the CY from inside the center keep because of the "too close" volley rules. Sure, shorten the range a bit. Then we can GA death on those attacking D2 from the safety of the inner keep. I'm sure no one would whine about that.

Re: Nerf to volley?

#288
Shields work just fine against volley in Thidranki. 50-60% block rate and 2-3 of 5 shots from every volley are blocked. 1 shot might hit the catapult and 1 usually misses. When we do hit a tank it's for 80 dmg and they laugh at us. Much of the time volley gets borked after the first or second shot and that's the only thing really broken with it.

Re: Nerf to volley?

#290
bm01 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:03 pm
That's odd. I block around 35% with 42+15 in shield and MoB3.
That does seem odd. Now I wish I had taken some screenshots. We just switched targets and waited for reinforcements to rush him. Next time I will definitely get some screenshots!

I don't remember his name, but he was a big, smelly Mid! :P