Gamemasters.

Started 9 Jul 2019
by Clartiex
in Tavern
So you guys wanna ban people for making accounts on the same computer, due to their being a limited amount of computers in one house hold for a time being. Going off of what I posted in the phoenix discord before I was banned from the discord, and my post was deleted, the Gamemasters here are biased as fuck. There is no rule stating: "You must create an account on the computer you wish to play on.", or "You can only create one account on one computer."
Example: 1.1 Multiple Phoenix accounts are not permitted.
There may only be one account per person. Measures are incorporated to detect multiple user accounts. This includes creating an additional Phoenix account when banned or suspended.

This is coming from YOUR RULES. It's okay tho. Enjoy the population decrease as you start pissing more and more of your players off. Eventually there will be less that 300 total. -Toodles.
Tue 9 Jul 2019 10:25 PM by florin
It’s a flawed system that Uthred should address publicly.
Tue 9 Jul 2019 10:26 PM by Clartiex
Please. Trying to explain this to the Gm's is like talking to a brick wall. They just go with what they say is right, and we as the players have 0 say so even tho they can't correct a mistake they made. They just ban you for it and expect you to come back. A lot of people are fed up and leaving the game. Myself included.
Tue 9 Jul 2019 10:28 PM by boundy
ohh.. *grabs popcorn*
Tue 9 Jul 2019 10:37 PM by florin
It’s obvious they are reading IP address and hardware info like the hard drive serial number (hello GDPR). Now the next step is where the process fails - accounts created on shared computers are flagged as mutiple accounts. Hence why PK was banned and un banned. So let’s talk about this Uthred/Vivien.

Ashok as the lead GM: is your team properly trained and handling this?
Tue 9 Jul 2019 10:44 PM by Pops999
Did the dog eat your homework too kid?

From the tone of your original post, I bet you were courteous and diplomatic in discord about your issue. Communist??? LOL.
Tue 9 Jul 2019 10:46 PM by Grumpy74
7 COMPS ..ONE HOUSE.
But im banned because i made my account on a comp and then bought a new one and my son made his on the old Comp as well...
Tue 9 Jul 2019 11:03 PM by FailSause
I'm not normally one to chime in on posts like this but in all seriousness you can ask probably more than half of midgard for proof that grumpys family plays all the time together from the same house.
Tue 9 Jul 2019 11:10 PM by LedriTheThane
A communism comparison, really? But I do agree with pretty much everything else you've mentioned. I've seen a lot of people getting banned for multiple accounts, and sure I get why if they're playing them both at the same time, but some of these rules and how they're enforced is so flawed. You can't really prove someone is actually running two accounts together just because they both logged in on that computer, or were made on that computer. Hell, my dad made his own and my account because I wasn't originally interested in the server, but he went and made me one anyways. Both on his own PC. Did we get banned? No. Did I ever touch his characters? Nope. Pretty sure his highest level is 15 because he doesn't care to come back. So my point is that these people here dealt with the same issues and they aren't breaking any legitimate rules.

I once played on a vanilla WoW private server a couple years back. It was originally Nostalrius, revived under the Elysium staff, and soon transferred into the Light's Hope project. I recall seeing this dude on their forums complain his and his young sons accounts were banned because he made them both at the same time. He had played vanilla WoW way back in the day, and wanted to show his son what the game was like since I'd guess he was pretty young, like 8-9 years old. He complained, and what happened? GM's said "Okay, we trust you" and unbanned both accounts within the hour. Not saying we need within an hour feedback, but that's the attitude any MMO staff should have.

On another note, I think one of the biggest flaws of the server rules is allowing people to share accounts, but banning someone for having multiple accounts. Sharing accounts has a MUCH worse result than someone running a buffbot to help them level up. Sharing accounts allows for people to inflate the realm rank of their toons much faster than someone having a buffbot inside a keep alongside someone with a very broken twf5. You know why? Because their toons become so overly powerful compared to the rest of the population that it fucks everyone else over.

No, I'm not saying allow multiple accounts. No, I'm not saying that's going to be every result because people will create second accounts to play on different realms, thus bypassing the realm timers. I'd argue you can still crack down on that exploit through your current means. It's just really disappointing seeing the server population drop so significantly after a couple of horrid changes, and those changes never reverting back to what they originally were. The staff seemingly don't care, and now seeing numerous people banned for bogus reasons is adding another one to the list. I do believe some people were wrongfully banned, and terminations of accounts shouldn't happen so easily.
Tue 9 Jul 2019 11:50 PM by Andryah
I don't play the server anymore... for other reasons.... but this thread deserves the following three comments:

1) Their game, their server, their rules. You agreed to said rules as condition of access to play on the server. If you don't like them... don't play on their server. They wrote the rules... and they apply the rules. Said rules are not subject to negotiation-by-rant, or by calling the GMs names, or any other anti-social misfit behavior common on today's internet.

2) If you want the server rules your way... then go make your own server and do the heavy lifting that has been done already on numerous DAOC freeservers. Put up or shut up, in my view.

3) It has ALWAYS been a thing in DAOC to multi-box and buff-bot. It is effectively ingrained in veteran DAOC player culture. Not to mention hacking and radar and other nonsense has always been a thing as well. NOT to mention the ever popular tactic of dual logging on two PCs, on different accounts.. using one to cross realm spy. These are all real challenges and need methods to largely squelch them from use. So I can see how a freeserver team has to draw some hard lines on the floor with instructions to NOT CROSS THE LINE... or else. It's a small team so they are going to rely on automation to detect possible multi-account play and violations.

And.. clearly they can and do make some mistakes since they are relying on automated detection and there are many different home user setup accessing the game.... but they also are willing to correct their errors... so get off their back about it.

/2-cents + an extra nickel for all the whining.
Tue 9 Jul 2019 11:55 PM by Clartiex
Andryah wrote:
Tue 9 Jul 2019 11:50 PM
I don't play the server anymore... for other reasons.... but this thread deserves the following three comments:

1) Their game, their server, their rules. You agreed to said rules as condition of access to play on the server. If you don't like them... don't play on their server. They wrote the rules... and they apply the rules. Said rules are not subject to negotiation-by-rant, or by calling the GMs names, or any other anti-social misfit behavior common on today's internet.

2) If you want the server rules your way... then go make your own server and do the heavy lifting that has been done already on numerous DAOC freeservers. Put up or shut up, in my view.

3) It has ALWAYS been a thing in DAOC to multi-box and buff-bot. It is effectively ingrained in veteran DAOC player culture. Not to mention hacking and radar and other nonsense has always been a thing as well. NOT to mention the ever popular tactic of dual logging on two PCs, on different accounts.. using one to cross realm spy. These are all real challenges and need methods to largely squelch them from use. So I can see how a freeserver team has to draw some hard lines on the floor with instructions to NOT CROSS THE LINE... or else. It's a small team so they are going to rely on automation to detect possible multi-account play and violations.

And.. clearly they can and do make some mistakes since they are relying on automated detection and there are many different home user setup accessing the game.... but they also are willing to correct their errors... so get off their back about it.

1st, you aren't even playing the game anymore, so your arguement is invalid. 2nd, I'm just going by what THEIR rule says. So I am following, their server, their rules. 3rd. No one is even talking about hacking, multiboxing, or buffbots. so please, reread the following comments before trying to make another point. Clearly you didn't read any comments.
Wed 10 Jul 2019 2:03 AM by LedriTheThane
Andryah wrote:
Tue 9 Jul 2019 11:50 PM
I don't play the server anymore... for other reasons.... but this thread deserves the following three comments:

1) Their game, their server, their rules. You agreed to said rules as condition of access to play on the server. If you don't like them... don't play on their server. They wrote the rules... and they apply the rules. Said rules are not subject to negotiation-by-rant, or by calling the GMs names, or any other anti-social misfit behavior common on today's internet.

2) If you want the server rules your way... then go make your own server and do the heavy lifting that has been done already on numerous DAOC freeservers. Put up or shut up, in my view.

3) It has ALWAYS been a thing in DAOC to multi-box and buff-bot. It is effectively ingrained in veteran DAOC player culture. Not to mention hacking and radar and other nonsense has always been a thing as well. NOT to mention the ever popular tactic of dual logging on two PCs, on different accounts.. using one to cross realm spy. These are all real challenges and need methods to largely squelch them from use. So I can see how a freeserver team has to draw some hard lines on the floor with instructions to NOT CROSS THE LINE... or else. It's a small team so they are going to rely on automation to detect possible multi-account play and violations.

And.. clearly they can and do make some mistakes since they are relying on automated detection and there are many different home user setup accessing the game.... but they also are willing to correct their errors... so get off their back about it.

/2-cents + an extra nickel for all the whining.

"Their game, their server, their rules."

worst mentality to have
Wed 10 Jul 2019 6:36 AM by Druth
I don't think this post will work as intended (unless it's to vent steam), it feels like giving the umpire the finger. He might have made a bad call, but it's just not productive.

But... I have 3 kids, and if what happened, did happen, then it might as well have been me. Well, apart from them playing Fortnite and Roblox instead, and not wanting to play this game.
I've made accounts for both of them, and we've played together, and I've mixed up accounts/laptops a few times.

So hope it has a happy ending, and that your kids get to play with you
Wed 10 Jul 2019 7:11 AM by Stoertebecker
Just curious, why don`t you ask a GM before creating multiple acounts?
Wed 10 Jul 2019 7:12 AM by Sepplord
12.2 Public discussions about already enforced punishments are strictly forbidden in game, on forums and on discord.

Just throwing that in here, to show how rule-savy you all seem to be.

That said, i am sure the tone has a lot to do how staff reacts when contacted privately about punishments and their willingness to invest time/work into investigating if there is a mistake or not.
The misconception that going public and causing an uproar somehow helps your case seems to be popular nowadays, but in my experience it just makes the person that is dealing with the problem annoyed and stressed out. When they get payed to deal with it, they still will but less effective. If it's their freetime and hobby they will down the priority or completely "forget" about it.

I get how frustrating it is to not being able to game the game you want to play. It can feel like it's the end of the world to a kid today...but in the end if everyone acts mature and stays respectful i am sure they solve it and a few days later all can play again. Unless you escalate it, annoy the staff while they are dealing with your problem or even break additional rules while the whole process is running.
Wed 10 Jul 2019 7:22 AM by Ceen
Does someone actually believe in the kids / cousin / nephew fairy tails? Those kind of stories may have worked in the 90s.
Wed 10 Jul 2019 7:54 AM by Uthred
First of all, we dont discuss bans in public for a good reason. Because as you can see here, those discussions arent reasonable but mostly insults towards the staff.

If you have multi accs, that is one offense = 3 day ban.
If you are cross realming (circumventing the realm timer), that is one offense = 3 day ban.
If you do both, that is one ban for 7 days as it is two offenses. It has always been like that since day 1.

Ok, so I will make an exception and name some facts in this case:

We told the "family" why they got banned and after reviewing the case we even lowered some of the bans. And this is how you "thank" us for believing you?

- In total your family has 6 accs, you only told us about 5 accs.
- 3 accounts were made from one computer, 2 from another and one from a third one.
- Your "daughter" didnt play since march 3rd, but instantly logged in several times after your account got banned. Nice coincidence.
- The cross realming acc was "only a mistake by our son", we even believed that.
- "But im banned because i made my account on a comp and then bought a new one and my son made his on the old Comp as well..." --> your acc was created on July 8th 2018, your sons acc was created on July 24th 2018. The new computer was used the first time on March 2nd 2019.

Besides all those facts, we discussed and believed that several people are playing from one household. We were nice to you and only closed those accounts that werent played anymore. And your reaction? This post that was already edited by the OP and reading what the others wrote in here, I can easily imagine what was written there.

"AJ Today at 10:32 PM
Wow.. I'm sorry Cell_maley. You're a good dude. these GM's are communist and what they seem unfit, people get a ban for. Oh btw. Have fun losing more and more of your population as you guys tend to be really dumbass dictators on what is right and what isn't. Especially since if you make a mistake you don't know how to apologize and fix it. Phoenix was short lived, but now it's gotten dumb. Have fun with the population drop when Classic WoW comes out. -toodles."

Sidenote: This "good dude" Cell_maley was scripting/auto-firing a trebuchet at bledmer and got banned for using 3rd party tools.

"Now i have to tell my daughter that she cant play anymore because some idiot in Germany cant do their damn job. Not to mention the damage you idiots have done to my /AS and my guild."

To sum things up:
Our rule says one account per person, our general assumption is that one computer means one person. Unless it's a clear cut case of buff botting / multi boxing or circumventing the realm timer, these bans are manually reviewed once we are contacted and if it turns out that it's actually just a family / household these bans are reverted. However, these are the exceptions, the vast majority of cases are clear cut buff bots or other realm accounts. This particular case is a mixture of both, we believe them that this is a family, however, there were cases of realm timer circumvention and most likely at least one of the accounts is an additional account.

In a perfect world, we would not have to ban anyone and running this server would be much more fun. Our goal is surely not to ban as many players as we can, but to PROTECT as many as we can from cheaters and people who hurt this community. And yes, we can make mistakes, but 99% of the time we catch people who try to harm the server/community and you don’t read in forums or on discord about all the solved issues as those honest players contacted us in a friendly and professional manner instead of calling us names and worse.

Nothing more to say.
Wed 10 Jul 2019 1:33 PM by chryso
Ceen wrote:
Wed 10 Jul 2019 7:22 AM
Does someone actually believe in the kids / cousin / nephew fairy tails? Those kind of stories may have worked in the 90s.

Just because nobody wants to have kids with you doesn't mean that is true for everyone.
Wed 10 Jul 2019 6:32 PM by LedriTheThane
Druth wrote:
Wed 10 Jul 2019 6:36 AM
I don't think this post will work as intended (unless it's to vent steam), it feels like giving the umpire the finger. He might have made a bad call, but it's just not productive.

But... I have 3 kids, and if what happened, did happen, then it might as well have been me. Well, apart from them playing Fortnite and Roblox instead, and not wanting to play this game.
I've made accounts for both of them, and we've played together, and I've mixed up accounts/laptops a few times.

So hope it has a happy ending, and that your kids get to play with you

Umpires are making a good argument to go full computerized strike/ball counts, if we're gonna point that out lol.
Wed 10 Jul 2019 11:53 PM by paqdizzle
Uthred wrote:
Wed 10 Jul 2019 7:54 AM
First of all, we dont discuss bans in public for a good reason. Because as you can see here, those discussions arent reasonable but mostly insults towards the staff.

If you have multi accs, that is one offense = 3 day ban.
If you are cross realming (circumventing the realm timer), that is one offense = 3 day ban.
If you do both, that is one ban for 7 days as it is two offenses. It has always been like that since day 1.

Ok, so I will make an exception and name some facts in this case:

We told the "family" why they got banned and after reviewing the case we even lowered some of the bans. And this is how you "thank" us for believing you?

- In total your family has 6 accs, you only told us about 5 accs.
- 3 accounts were made from one computer, 2 from another and one from a third one.
- Your "daughter" didnt play since march 3rd, but instantly logged in several times after your account got banned. Nice coincidence.
- The cross realming acc was "only a mistake by our son", we even believed that.
- "But im banned because i made my account on a comp and then bought a new one and my son made his on the old Comp as well..." --> your acc was created on July 8th 2018, your sons acc was created on July 24th 2018. The new computer was used the first time on March 2nd 2019.

Besides all those facts, we discussed and believed that several people are playing from one household. We were nice to you and only closed those accounts that werent played anymore. And your reaction? This post that was already edited by the OP and reading what the others wrote in here, I can easily imagine what was written there.

"AJ Today at 10:32 PM
Wow.. I'm sorry Cell_maley. You're a good dude. these GM's are communist and what they seem unfit, people get a ban for. Oh btw. Have fun losing more and more of your population as you guys tend to be really dumbass dictators on what is right and what isn't. Especially since if you make a mistake you don't know how to apologize and fix it. Phoenix was short lived, but now it's gotten dumb. Have fun with the population drop when Classic WoW comes out. -toodles."

Sidenote: This "good dude" Cell_maley was scripting/auto-firing a trebuchet at bledmer and got banned for using 3rd party tools.

"Now i have to tell my daughter that she cant play anymore because some idiot in Germany cant do their damn job. Not to mention the damage you idiots have done to my /AS and my guild."

To sum things up:
Our rule says one account per person, our general assumption is that one computer means one person. Unless it's a clear cut case of buff botting / multi boxing or circumventing the realm timer, these bans are manually reviewed once we are contacted and if it turns out that it's actually just a family / household these bans are reverted. However, these are the exceptions, the vast majority of cases are clear cut buff bots or other realm accounts. This particular case is a mixture of both, we believe them that this is a family, however, there were cases of realm timer circumvention and most likely at least one of the accounts is an additional account.

In a perfect world, we would not have to ban anyone and running this server would be much more fun. Our goal is surely not to ban as many players as we can, but to PROTECT as many as we can from cheaters and people who hurt this community. And yes, we can make mistakes, but 99% of the time we catch people who try to harm the server/community and you don’t read in forums or on discord about all the solved issues as those honest players contacted us in a friendly and professional manner instead of calling us names and worse.

Nothing more to say.

I think they are more upset about the fact that most if not all bans posted on the **Banned** list, are for violations such as Xrealming or Multiaccounts. instead of actual hackers/cheaters.. Radar is a big thing for a LOT of users here... as a stealther you can clearly see who has radar and who does not.
I've seen several big guilds bot aim towards me or I would watch them engage another group in rvr from out of clipping range, just B-lining right at them... that's literally impossible.. you cannot see further than clipping range and I see it wayyyy too often.

On top of the frustration, the balance for this servers realms are all out of sync...
I think we should get back to the basics of balancing RvR and classes per realm..
Thu 11 Jul 2019 9:29 AM by Leandrys
Looks like "everybody lies" ? Another case of pathologic lying from users.
Thu 11 Jul 2019 9:48 AM by relvinian
This specific case should not be discussed in this forum.

The issue of people sharing computers. might be a real issue.

That issue could probably be handled by telling the staff exactly what is going on.
Thu 11 Jul 2019 1:01 PM by Roto23
Me and my girl friend live together and she is in a different guild. So we don't play together often, plus she plays War Hammer more. But we both know the rule that we both have to play the same realm. If by mistake one of us jumps on a different realm and we get banned, that would be 100% our fault.
Thu 11 Jul 2019 4:54 PM by Estat
I feel really bad for the staff for having to put up with this kind of crap from players. Having to deal with lies, denial and wishful thinking (sadly that's human nature) is bad enough if you do it for a living, feels horrible if you have to do it in your free time.

That said I'm really impressed at how much time and effort staff put into trying to be fair and as lenient as possible in this case. Big respect for that, I surely wouldn't have had the patience for that.
Thu 11 Jul 2019 5:02 PM by Sleepwell
Roto23 wrote:
Thu 11 Jul 2019 1:01 PM
Me and my girl friend live together and she is in a different guild. So we don't play together often, plus she plays War Hammer more. But we both know the rule that we both have to play the same realm. If by mistake one of us jumps on a different realm and we get banned, that would be 100% our fault.


That isnt so much the problem. The problem would be if you logged into your account on your gf computer, and/or your gf logs into her account on your computer. At that point they could potentially see that as multi - accounts. There is really no way for you to disprove that. They have to take your word on it. They are also within their bounds as defined by their rules to ban you for doing that. The assumption that is made now is that 1 pc = 1 mac address = 1 person. If you log into a pc that is already tagged via ip/mac/account, then it appears that you are using multi accounts.
Thu 11 Jul 2019 5:15 PM by Boric
I do not think what you are saying is true.
I think it is if you create an account on a computer with another account already created which is causing some concern / issues.

Sharing accounts are allowed, so it should not matter which computer (once accounts are created) you log into.

I know I share my account with a few friends and vis versa, and as long as we make sure no one logs into a different realm on any of the accounts we are good.
Thu 11 Jul 2019 5:24 PM by Sleepwell
Uthred wrote:
Wed 10 Jul 2019 7:54 AM
To sum things up:
Our rule says one account per person, our general assumption is that one computer means one person. Unless it's a clear cut case of buff botting / multi boxing or circumventing the realm timer, these bans are manually reviewed once we are contacted and if it turns out that it's actually just a family / household these bans are reverted. However, these are the exceptions, the vast majority of cases are clear cut buff bots or other realm accounts. This particular case is a mixture of both, we believe them that this is a family, however, there were cases of realm timer circumvention and most likely at least one of the accounts is an additional account.

In a perfect world, we would not have to ban anyone and running this server would be much more fun. Our goal is surely not to ban as many players as we can, but to PROTECT as many as we can from cheaters and people who hurt this community. And yes, we can make mistakes, but 99% of the time we catch people who try to harm the server/community and you don’t read in forums or on discord about all the solved issues as those honest players contacted us in a friendly and professional manner instead of calling us names and worse.

Nothing more to say.

If everything is done by the book, then multiple accounts on a single computer could potentially be expected. Say you have a family that all plays mid, but plays at different times on different accounts. That is "multiple accounts" as per the rules. The rules are vague and can be interpreted by you or the gms however they want. If a gm wants to ban you for playing one realm on multiple computers because that computer is also used to log into 4 other accounts (even if only one realm is played by all accounts), by the rule as written, they are well within their rights (even if they didnt use the "our server our rules " statement),
Thu 11 Jul 2019 9:40 PM by Stoertebecker
Sleepwell wrote:
Thu 11 Jul 2019 5:24 PM
Uthred wrote:
Wed 10 Jul 2019 7:54 AM
To sum things up:
Our rule says one account per person, our general assumption is that one computer means one person. Unless it's a clear cut case of buff botting / multi boxing or circumventing the realm timer, these bans are manually reviewed once we are contacted and if it turns out that it's actually just a family / household these bans are reverted. However, these are the exceptions, the vast majority of cases are clear cut buff bots or other realm accounts. This particular case is a mixture of both, we believe them that this is a family, however, there were cases of realm timer circumvention and most likely at least one of the accounts is an additional account.

In a perfect world, we would not have to ban anyone and running this server would be much more fun. Our goal is surely not to ban as many players as we can, but to PROTECT as many as we can from cheaters and people who hurt this community. And yes, we can make mistakes, but 99% of the time we catch people who try to harm the server/community and you don’t read in forums or on discord about all the solved issues as those honest players contacted us in a friendly and professional manner instead of calling us names and worse.

Nothing more to say.

If everything is done by the book, then multiple accounts on a single computer could potentially be expected. Say you have a family that all plays mid, but plays at different times on different accounts. That is "multiple accounts" as per the rules. The rules are vague and can be interpreted by you or the gms however they want. If a gm wants to ban you for playing one realm on multiple computers because that computer is also used to log into 4 other accounts (even if only one realm is played by all accounts), by the rule as written, they are well within their rights (even if they didnt use the "our server our rules " statement),

If you have a family or a household with 2-x ppl playing daoc and not everyone has his own computer i would think that there is at least 1 person that knows this forum and it`s ban-section, and maybe there is at least one person that knows about the rules on this server and how strict the gm`s are if it comes to multiple accounts.
Wouldn`t it be common sense to ask them before creating multiple accounts or before start playing with multiple accounts?

I`m pretty sure that the gm`s know all details from account creation to system details like mac adress, ip etc and the logins from the last 2-8 weeks.
And there are still ppl thinking they are smarter.....

If you`re running more than 1 account per comp, tell the gm`s why.
Thu 11 Jul 2019 11:16 PM by ExcretusMaximus
Based on the account names and his insistence on running private BGs, anyone who believes Grumpy was doing anything other than cross-realming is either willfully ignorant, or too gullible for words.
Fri 12 Jul 2019 1:27 AM by gotwqqd
Sleepwell wrote:
Thu 11 Jul 2019 5:24 PM
Uthred wrote:
Wed 10 Jul 2019 7:54 AM
To sum things up:
Our rule says one account per person, our general assumption is that one computer means one person. Unless it's a clear cut case of buff botting / multi boxing or circumventing the realm timer, these bans are manually reviewed once we are contacted and if it turns out that it's actually just a family / household these bans are reverted. However, these are the exceptions, the vast majority of cases are clear cut buff bots or other realm accounts. This particular case is a mixture of both, we believe them that this is a family, however, there were cases of realm timer circumvention and most likely at least one of the accounts is an additional account.

In a perfect world, we would not have to ban anyone and running this server would be much more fun. Our goal is surely not to ban as many players as we can, but to PROTECT as many as we can from cheaters and people who hurt this community. And yes, we can make mistakes, but 99% of the time we catch people who try to harm the server/community and you don’t read in forums or on discord about all the solved issues as those honest players contacted us in a friendly and professional manner instead of calling us names and worse.

Nothing more to say.

If everything is done by the book, then multiple accounts on a single computer could potentially be expected. Say you have a family that all plays mid, but plays at different times on different accounts. That is "multiple accounts" as per the rules. The rules are vague and can be interpreted by you or the gms however they want. If a gm wants to ban you for playing one realm on multiple computers because that computer is also used to log into 4 other accounts (even if only one realm is played by all accounts), by the rule as written, they are well within their rights (even if they didnt use the "our server our rules " statement),
Seems to me this is about two instances of the game running on one computer

I find it hard to believe that you couldn’t have more than one login on a game install on one computer
Fri 12 Jul 2019 2:17 AM by florin
gotwqqd wrote:
Fri 12 Jul 2019 1:27 AM
Sleepwell wrote:
Thu 11 Jul 2019 5:24 PM
Uthred wrote:
Wed 10 Jul 2019 7:54 AM
To sum things up:
Our rule says one account per person, our general assumption is that one computer means one person. Unless it's a clear cut case of buff botting / multi boxing or circumventing the realm timer, these bans are manually reviewed once we are contacted and if it turns out that it's actually just a family / household these bans are reverted. However, these are the exceptions, the vast majority of cases are clear cut buff bots or other realm accounts. This particular case is a mixture of both, we believe them that this is a family, however, there were cases of realm timer circumvention and most likely at least one of the accounts is an additional account.

In a perfect world, we would not have to ban anyone and running this server would be much more fun. Our goal is surely not to ban as many players as we can, but to PROTECT as many as we can from cheaters and people who hurt this community. And yes, we can make mistakes, but 99% of the time we catch people who try to harm the server/community and you don’t read in forums or on discord about all the solved issues as those honest players contacted us in a friendly and professional manner instead of calling us names and worse.

Nothing more to say.

If everything is done by the book, then multiple accounts on a single computer could potentially be expected. Say you have a family that all plays mid, but plays at different times on different accounts. That is "multiple accounts" as per the rules. The rules are vague and can be interpreted by you or the gms however they want. If a gm wants to ban you for playing one realm on multiple computers because that computer is also used to log into 4 other accounts (even if only one realm is played by all accounts), by the rule as written, they are well within their rights (even if they didnt use the "our server our rules " statement),
Seems to me this is about two instances of the game running on one computer

I find it hard to believe that you couldn’t have more than one login on a game install on one computer

It’s a even more basic than that - it’s multiple accounts created on the same computer that causes the issue. This was stated in discord by the gms. So there will be false positives triggered by the low quality check and then manual work to be done to review the facts which can take days and then you get situations like this. Let’s have a little imagination here and think about how this plays out. One person installs the game and creates the account on one computer. He then shows the game to significant other or kid. The wife / kid is interested, wants to try it out. They create a unique account ( but on the same computer) cause they read the rules. But then they want to play together so they install the game on other computer and now are flagged and banned for multiple accounts. Who thinks this is ok? Nothing more to be said indeed.
Fri 12 Jul 2019 2:46 AM by gotwqqd
florin wrote:
Fri 12 Jul 2019 2:17 AM
gotwqqd wrote:
Fri 12 Jul 2019 1:27 AM
Sleepwell wrote:
Thu 11 Jul 2019 5:24 PM
If everything is done by the book, then multiple accounts on a single computer could potentially be expected. Say you have a family that all plays mid, but plays at different times on different accounts. That is "multiple accounts" as per the rules. The rules are vague and can be interpreted by you or the gms however they want. If a gm wants to ban you for playing one realm on multiple computers because that computer is also used to log into 4 other accounts (even if only one realm is played by all accounts), by the rule as written, they are well within their rights (even if they didnt use the "our server our rules " statement),
Seems to me this is about two instances of the game running on one computer

I find it hard to believe that you couldn’t have more than one login on a game install on one computer

It’s a even more basic than that - it’s multiple accounts created on the same computer that causes the issue. This was stated in discord by the gms. So there will be false positives triggered by the low quality check and then manual work to be done to review the facts which can take days and then you get situations like this. Let’s have a little imagination here and think about how this plays out. One person installs the game and creates the account on one computer. He then shows the game to significant other or kid. The wife / kid is interested, wants to try it out. They create a unique account ( but on the same computer) cause they read the rules. But then they want to play together so they install the game on other computer and now are flagged and banned for multiple accounts. Who thinks this is ok? Nothing more to be said indeed.

But has anyone been banned for this type of thing?
Where in all regards they are playing by the rules.

Or have all the bans been to one person trying to play on multiple accounts and couldn’t pass it off
Fri 12 Jul 2019 5:28 AM by florin
gotwqqd wrote:
Fri 12 Jul 2019 2:46 AM
florin wrote:
Fri 12 Jul 2019 2:17 AM
gotwqqd wrote:
Fri 12 Jul 2019 1:27 AM
Seems to me this is about two instances of the game running on one computer

I find it hard to believe that you couldn’t have more than one login on a game install on one computer

It’s a even more basic than that - it’s multiple accounts created on the same computer that causes the issue. This was stated in discord by the gms. So there will be false positives triggered by the low quality check and then manual work to be done to review the facts which can take days and then you get situations like this. Let’s have a little imagination here and think about how this plays out. One person installs the game and creates the account on one computer. He then shows the game to significant other or kid. The wife / kid is interested, wants to try it out. They create a unique account ( but on the same computer) cause they read the rules. But then they want to play together so they install the game on other computer and now are flagged and banned for multiple accounts. Who thinks this is ok? Nothing more to be said indeed.

But has anyone been banned for this type of thing?
Where in all regards they are playing by the rules.

Or have all the bans been to one person trying to play on multiple accounts and couldn’t pass it off
Hard to tell - the manually reviewed and reverted bans “should not” make it to the ban board. They do make it to discord where every few days someone is pleading their case.
Fri 12 Jul 2019 1:34 PM by PingGuy
I would be curious to know if they would ban someone for making multiple accounts from the same computer. That seems a little out of scope of what they tell us to do or not do. As long as you never have two accounts logged in from the same computer, never violate the realm timer across any of the accounts created on the same computer (or that are played from the same ip), and follow the 10 min afk rule (able to pass the test), then I would think you would be fine.

I'm guessing that while it may be true that the OP created multiple accounts from one PC, that is probably not what ended up getting them in trouble.
Fri 12 Jul 2019 3:33 PM by Sayuri
PingGuy wrote:
Fri 12 Jul 2019 1:34 PM
I would be curious to know if they would ban someone for making multiple accounts from the same computer. That seems a little out of scope of what they tell us to do or not do. As long as you never have two accounts logged in from the same computer, never violate the realm timer across any of the accounts created on the same computer (or that are played from the same ip), and follow the 10 min afk rule (able to pass the test), then I would think you would be fine.

I'm guessing that while it may be true that the OP created multiple accounts from one PC, that is probably not what ended up getting them in trouble.

actually you can get banned for nothing take my example : i get banned 3 days for nothing, i did nothing wrong and played by the book at 100% it took me 3 days and 1 harassement to uthred to get my name cleared and unban, it was a perma ban at start so actually after experiencing it i cant tell if a ban is legit or not anymore
Fri 12 Jul 2019 5:07 PM by PingGuy
Sayuri wrote:
Fri 12 Jul 2019 3:33 PM
actually you can get banned for nothing take my example : i get banned 3 days for nothing, i did nothing wrong and played by the book at 100% it took me 3 days and 1 harassement to uthred to get my name cleared and unban, it was a perma ban at start so actually after experiencing it i cant tell if a ban is legit or not anymore

Let's be clear here. Getting banned for nothing would require a GM to just randomly pick someone and ban them. Chances are that isn't what happened with you or anyone else. These things always start with something. An action, a message, or something weird in the logs. There is always a chance for a misunderstanding, but chances are the action was taken based on something they saw, not a randomly selected victim.
Fri 12 Jul 2019 5:26 PM by Sayuri
PingGuy wrote:
Fri 12 Jul 2019 5:07 PM
Sayuri wrote:
Fri 12 Jul 2019 3:33 PM
actually you can get banned for nothing take my example : i get banned 3 days for nothing, i did nothing wrong and played by the book at 100% it took me 3 days and 1 harassement to uthred to get my name cleared and unban, it was a perma ban at start so actually after experiencing it i cant tell if a ban is legit or not anymore

Let's be clear here. Getting banned for nothing would require a GM to just randomly pick someone and ban them. Chances are that isn't what happened with you or anyone else. These things always start with something. An action, a message, or something weird in the logs. There is always a chance for a misunderstanding, but chances are the action was taken based on something they saw, not a randomly selected victim.

so i ask for 3 days to check again cause i did nothing and when they did they unban me, so yeah i was randomly selected
Fri 12 Jul 2019 5:44 PM by Matricus
Sayuri wrote:
Fri 12 Jul 2019 5:26 PM
PingGuy wrote:
Fri 12 Jul 2019 5:07 PM
Sayuri wrote:
Fri 12 Jul 2019 3:33 PM
actually you can get banned for nothing take my example : i get banned 3 days for nothing, i did nothing wrong and played by the book at 100% it took me 3 days and 1 harassement to uthred to get my name cleared and unban, it was a perma ban at start so actually after experiencing it i cant tell if a ban is legit or not anymore

Let's be clear here. Getting banned for nothing would require a GM to just randomly pick someone and ban them. Chances are that isn't what happened with you or anyone else. These things always start with something. An action, a message, or something weird in the logs. There is always a chance for a misunderstanding, but chances are the action was taken based on something they saw, not a randomly selected victim.

so i ask for 3 days to check again cause i did nothing and when they did they unban me, so yeah i was randomly selected

Yeah, sure.

I remember the thread; it was about a month ago. Your name was mentioned in that "gold seller" ban thread.
Meaning you did something that did look like gold selling in logs (or however they do it), which was revoked on a second review.
Fri 12 Jul 2019 6:19 PM by Sayuri
Matricus wrote:
Fri 12 Jul 2019 5:44 PM
Sayuri wrote:
Fri 12 Jul 2019 5:26 PM
PingGuy wrote:
Fri 12 Jul 2019 5:07 PM
Let's be clear here. Getting banned for nothing would require a GM to just randomly pick someone and ban them. Chances are that isn't what happened with you or anyone else. These things always start with something. An action, a message, or something weird in the logs. There is always a chance for a misunderstanding, but chances are the action was taken based on something they saw, not a randomly selected victim.

so i ask for 3 days to check again cause i did nothing and when they did they unban me, so yeah i was randomly selected

Yeah, sure.

I remember the thread; it was about a month ago. Your name was mentioned in that "gold seller" ban thread.
Meaning you did something that did look like gold selling in logs (or however they do it), which was revoked on a second review.

and like i said i did nothing at all xD
Fri 12 Jul 2019 7:34 PM by gotwqqd
Sayuri wrote:
Fri 12 Jul 2019 6:19 PM
Matricus wrote:
Fri 12 Jul 2019 5:44 PM
Sayuri wrote:
Fri 12 Jul 2019 5:26 PM
so i ask for 3 days to check again cause i did nothing and when they did they unban me, so yeah i was randomly selected

Yeah, sure.

I remember the thread; it was about a month ago. Your name was mentioned in that "gold seller" ban thread.
Meaning you did something that did look like gold selling in logs (or however they do it), which was revoked on a second review.

and like i said i did nothing at all xD
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

Sounds like OJ
Sat 13 Jul 2019 12:49 PM by gruenesschaf
The issue with that ban that e.g. affected Sayuri was an internal communication failure, it was due to suspicious behavior that automatically flagged the account, the ban was to investigate it. It should however not have been posted as a ban at that time, only once the investigation confirmed the flagging which it did not in that case.
Sat 13 Jul 2019 2:05 PM by Sayuri
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sat 13 Jul 2019 12:49 PM
The issue with that ban that e.g. affected Sayuri was an internal communication failure, it was due to suspicious behavior that automatically flagged the account, the ban was to investigate it. It should however not have been posted as a ban at that time, only once the investigation confirmed the flagging which it did not in that case.

good to know first time someone explain it to me
Sat 13 Jul 2019 10:21 PM by Halcyon702
They banned me from discord for saying NF was a way for them to slow down people's progress in RvR.

Most of the population is just bored with unnecessary changes and having their friends banned for nonsense, the numbers reflect that.
Sun 14 Jul 2019 5:52 PM by Sepplord
Halcyon702 wrote:
Sat 13 Jul 2019 10:21 PM
They banned me from discord for saying NF was a way for them to slow down people's progress in RvR.

Most of the population is just bored with unnecessary changes and having their friends banned for nonsense, the numbers reflect that.

If i could bet money on this being a lie, i would
Sun 14 Jul 2019 11:56 PM by chryso
Halcyon702 wrote:
Sat 13 Jul 2019 10:21 PM
Most of the population is just bored with unnecessary changes and having their friends banned for nonsense, the numbers reflect that.

I can't believe how many people are continually banned for multi accounts. Why is it soooo hard for these people to follow the rules?
Mon 15 Jul 2019 5:45 AM by Sepplord
chryso wrote:
Sun 14 Jul 2019 11:56 PM
Halcyon702 wrote:
Sat 13 Jul 2019 10:21 PM
Most of the population is just bored with unnecessary changes and having their friends banned for nonsense, the numbers reflect that.

I can't believe how many people are continually banned for multi accounts. Why is it soooo hard for these people to follow the rules?

Many just don't know the rules (evident with some of the bans not even trying to use different accountnames) but that doesn't make it better. Mindboggling why you wouldn't do a 30sec research when going somewhere about the local customs and rules
Mon 15 Jul 2019 6:20 AM by gotwqqd
Sepplord wrote:
Mon 15 Jul 2019 5:45 AM
chryso wrote:
Sun 14 Jul 2019 11:56 PM
Halcyon702 wrote:
Sat 13 Jul 2019 10:21 PM
Most of the population is just bored with unnecessary changes and having their friends banned for nonsense, the numbers reflect that.

I can't believe how many people are continually banned for multi accounts. Why is it soooo hard for these people to follow the rules?

Many just don't know the rules (evident with some of the bans not even trying to use different accountnames) but that doesn't make it better. Mindboggling why you wouldn't do a 30sec research when going somewhere about the local customs and rules
Considering the page for the custom patcher , https://playphoenix.online/, has READ THE RULES at/near the top there is no excuse
Mon 15 Jul 2019 6:23 AM by Sepplord
gotwqqd wrote:
Mon 15 Jul 2019 6:20 AM
Sepplord wrote:
Mon 15 Jul 2019 5:45 AM
chryso wrote:
Sun 14 Jul 2019 11:56 PM
I can't believe how many people are continually banned for multi accounts. Why is it soooo hard for these people to follow the rules?

Many just don't know the rules (evident with some of the bans not even trying to use different accountnames) but that doesn't make it better. Mindboggling why you wouldn't do a 30sec research when going somewhere about the local customs and rules
Considering the page for the custom patcher , https://playphoenix.online/, has READ THE RULES at/near the top there is no excuse
i wasn't trying to excuse them...i am not even sure if not reading the rules at all is worse than deciding to try and break one after informing oneself
Mon 15 Jul 2019 12:51 PM by Sleepwell
gotwqqd wrote:
Mon 15 Jul 2019 6:20 AM
Sepplord wrote:
Mon 15 Jul 2019 5:45 AM
chryso wrote:
Sun 14 Jul 2019 11:56 PM
I can't believe how many people are continually banned for multi accounts. Why is it soooo hard for these people to follow the rules?

Many just don't know the rules (evident with some of the bans not even trying to use different accountnames) but that doesn't make it better. Mindboggling why you wouldn't do a 30sec research when going somewhere about the local customs and rules
Considering the page for the custom patcher , https://playphoenix.online/, has READ THE RULES at/near the top there is no excuse

Not trying to justify anything, but there is an excuse. The rules are still too vague.

1. One account per person.

Up until recently they did not make it clear that they assumed 1 person = 1 pc (therefore tied to a mac address + an ip address).

Uthred wrote:
Wed 10 Jul 2019 7:54 AM
To sum things up:
Our rule says one account per person, our general assumption is that one computer means one person.


That could lead to potential problems.

My 10 year old had slight interest in the game. He wanted to make a toon and try it out, so i helped him setup his account. His account was to be played from our family laptop and not my PC. Ultimately, the game wasnt fast paced enough for him. He wanted something closer to fortnite. He might have made it to level 5. That account is still sitting there at level 5, and will rot there. So where the vagueness of the rules come into play. Now i want to play my character (crafting, mainly) from my laptop while i sit in my recliner (instead of at my pc desk where i typically play). Mind you, the other account has not been logged into in 3 + months, and will not be, again... he has no desire to play. The recent events have brought to light that when GMs monitor, they take into account IP + MAC address. You are potentially flagged as multi-boxing. Excuse?, no , not an excuse... but it is grey. I feel like they should solidify that, if thats how it is handled and say, 1 account per computer, period.
Mon 15 Jul 2019 2:21 PM by Sepplord
Sleepwell wrote:
Mon 15 Jul 2019 12:51 PM
That could lead to potential problems.

My 10 year old had slight interest in the game. He wanted to make a toon and try it out, so i helped him setup his account. His account was to be played from our family laptop and not my PC. Ultimately, the game wasnt fast paced enough for him. He wanted something closer to fortnite. He might have made it to level 5. That account is still sitting there at level 5, and will rot there. So where the vagueness of the rules come into play. Now i want to play my character (crafting, mainly) from my laptop while i sit in my recliner (instead of at my pc desk where i typically play). Mind you, the other account has not been logged into in 3 + months, and will not be, again... he has no desire to play. The recent events have brought to light that when GMs monitor, they take into account IP + MAC address. You are potentially flagged as multi-boxing. Excuse?, no , not an excuse... but it is grey. I feel like they should solidify that, if thats how it is handled and say, 1 account per computer, period.

That's not the rules being grey...it's that the control-method isn't failsafe.
just because you would get flagged, doesn't mean you would get punished. Even if you got falsely flagged and punished, it can be sorted out with the staff. No matter what kind of automation you have, there will always be false flags.
The rules (in this regard) are very clear, it's just that they aren't 100% transparent on how their control-mechanism function...which makes sense and is standard.
Mon 15 Jul 2019 2:46 PM by Sleepwell
We just have different interpretations then. Ultimately it does not affect me anymore, since i have one account and can play it from my pc or my laptop.

1.1 Multiple Phoenix accounts are not permitted.

There may only be one account per person. Measures are incorporated to detect multiple user accounts. This includes creating an additional Phoenix account when banned or suspended.

Were there multiple accounts in my household? Yes, mine, and my sons. My son played it for a day and reached level 5. I'm not worried about it, but the narcissist in me :-) wants clarity. I want the population to at least sustain and hopefully grow. Are there two accounts that could have potentially be flagged as multiple accounts on my laptop? Yes, thats where my sons account was created (mac address bound), and i have since crafted while netflixing on the laptop. Maybe i am misinterpreting the rules as they are written.

The aknowledgement from Uthred recently is the only thing that should cause concern. Their understanding that one account means one pc. So my interpretation is this if i try to follow their rules :

1. One account per person
2. One person = one computer

I hope its really that simple. If so, then yes, there is no room for error.
Mon 15 Jul 2019 5:14 PM by gotwqqd
Did they say account used on same pc?
My guess is it means one client running on one pc at a time
Tue 16 Jul 2019 3:11 AM by Sleepwell
Yes, its on page 2, post #17 of this very thread. Abreviated quote from Uthred.

I don't think its that big a deal. it's been discussed enough at this point that if you're banned due to something of the sort , then you either claim ignorance (which probably wont fly), or you just dont care :-). From the looks of the ban page (run the rough numbers.. its @ 2000 accounts), people just dont care.

Uthred wrote:
Wed 10 Jul 2019 7:54 AM
To sum things up:
Our rule says one account per person, our general assumption is that one computer means one person.

Tue 16 Jul 2019 6:01 AM by Sepplord
Sleepwell wrote:
Tue 16 Jul 2019 3:11 AM
Yes, its on page 2, post #17 of this very thread. Abreviated quote from Uthred.

I don't think its that big a deal. it's been discussed enough at this point that if you're banned due to something of the sort , then you either claim ignorance (which probably wont fly), or you just dont care :-). From the looks of the ban page (run the rough numbers.. its @ 2000 accounts), people just dont care.

Uthred wrote:
Wed 10 Jul 2019 7:54 AM
To sum things up:
Our rule says one account per person, our general assumption is that one computer means one person.


The excerpt that you quote is out of context of the whole comment though. I do not interprete it as if they would just ban a household for making multiple accounts from one PC. In that comment he lists a load of snippets/evidences to paint a bigger picture of the situation that lead to the bans.
Tue 16 Jul 2019 12:42 PM by Sleepwell
While it is just a part of the quote. I don't feel like it is out of context. There is nothing else in his complete quote that contradicts the statement i quoted.

Bottom line. It isnt going to affect me. I am merely pointing it out so that hopefully in the future if these bans become commonplace, people will have this discussion and this thread to go back on and say.. damn... it was there all along. At that point, ignorance should not be allowed as an excuse.... laziness possibly... but not ignorance.

Second bottom line. From the looks of things, giving people the information they need to avoid a ban doesnt seem to work anyway. Rules are documented and still ignored. As my previous post says... @2000 accounts banned = low population. Bans are not the only reason, but damn thats a lot of accounts.
Tue 16 Jul 2019 12:50 PM by Dominus
you guys should really just get an outdoor hobby and let this go... seriously.. you're what 30, 40+ years old crying about a video game.
Tue 16 Jul 2019 1:13 PM by Sleepwell
1. No one is "crying" , or at least i dont think they are?

2. I appreciate Sepps opinion and perspective. While we may not agree, i feel like i can have decent debate with him.

3. We got your attention :-). Even if you think we're crying.

4. Maybe if you hit the ban list one day for the reason we are discussing, we can either call you lazy or ignorant.

5. Posting at work is awesome. It's nice to bust ass and complete projects so i have time for myself, my hobbies, etc. :-)

This is all entertainment. Even the rants and raves are entertaining.
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