Lots of changes all at once.

Started 22 Mar 2019
by relvinian
in Tavern
When the changes came in, monsterparty formed a keep take bg and we took keeps to get our -30 rps to 0.

Then we ran around taking keeps and real life came along and we had to go.

Now as i look it is alb 0, mid +30 rps, hib-30 rps.

alb has 729, mid has 866, and hib has 660.

Does anyone see an issue here?

Let's check the herald.

We know hib dominated at first so they have lots of high rr toons. We see Flump has the most rps.

We see healer skald shaman and bonedancer are the four most populated on server. (serverinfo)

Does anyone see an issue here?

What if you are a hib right now and you see you're outnumbered and mid is getting +30 rps and you are getting -30 rps?

What are you going to do?

I think maybe 10% plus or minus. 30 is too much.

Also, does this stack with the score?

And one last thought, not everyone wants to keep take all the time. Sometimes you want to just screw around and solo or small man or whatever. But you don't want to do that with -30 rps while the realm ganking the crap out of you not only wins all the time they get bonus rps to do it, easy mode.

Bottom line of this post?

Please monitor this extremely closely. Thanks.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 7:40 PM by Dagerin
If Mid is actually getting bonus RPs for anything then I'm speechless. They have the same nightly RvR pop as Hib and Alb combined it feels like.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 8:24 PM by moe_Jiller
<Staff>: "We know we did a major Change, please wait a Bit, we will monitor closely."

<Player, several hours later>: "YO, YOU DID A MAJOR CHANGE, PLEASE MONITOR CLOSELY!"

Eh....
Fri 22 Mar 2019 8:36 PM by relvinian
It's feedback.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 8:45 PM by Maincercam
mids getting to -15 now ... how about that ? ^^

its been only like 2h sience the change .... how about we wait and see what is happening instead of qqing all around ?

im sure they are monitoring this closely ....

HINT: Its a free game ...
Fri 22 Mar 2019 9:49 PM by Loki
First day I actually don't feel like playing ... I can't understand the thought process behind these changes . Gonna watch movies and stuff, heard Into The Spider-Verse is great.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 10:08 PM by Spewy
crazy change.... -15% RP its insane. should be lower decrease / increase
Fri 22 Mar 2019 11:12 PM by relvinian
How does under population bonus work with this?
Sat 23 Mar 2019 1:29 AM by Stoertebecker
Spewy wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 10:08 PM
crazy change.... -15% RP its insane. should be lower decrease / increase

If you want more...go and raid keeps or defend them.
Sat 23 Mar 2019 1:43 AM by sebbo
Kinda funny.

Those who zerg the most get even more rp´s now, those who are outnumbered get even less. The gap between high rr and low rr groups will rise. I mean, its just simple maths:

The realm with the highest population will ofc raid more keeps, and actively raid them more often. This results in more rp´s and stuff. Right after the patch was introduced, Midgard simply gatheres 50+ players to raid the sh*t out of hib. From one minute to another, the guards spammed "*** was just killed with 54 enemy players in the area". Some hours later, the guard messages went up to 72 players. Seriously, thats 9 FG´s. Then, suddenly, an albzerg came up as well, while hib didnt even have enough groups around to compete with one of both zergs. And by "around" i dont mean there wasnt many groups in the counterzerg, no, there wasnt even an equal number of groups in all FZ´s combined.

The current RvR situation is as follows: Stealthers everywhere, camping the borderkeeps and porterkeeps, or small zergs. You dont even need a full hand to count the equal fights. Ofc, theres no official 8vs8 zones, or 1vs1 zones and stuff, but most of the time, there is zergs already.

In the current state, its all about going to the fz to die as fast as possible, so you dont miss a single rvr task tick, or go zerg and leech whatever you can. Im not sure how such a change would encourage players to zerg less, and to spread across all zones. It just encourages more zerging imho.
Remembers me a bit of the last months of RvR on Genesis. Or like on Lethantis, where everyone was just sticking a single player, just waiting for him to be worth rp´s again.


Stoertebecker wrote:
Sat 23 Mar 2019 1:29 AM
Spewy wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 10:08 PM
crazy change.... -15% RP its insane. should be lower decrease / increase

If you want more...go and raid keeps or defend them.

Yeah, too funny to go raid keeps with 70+ enemies around. Enjoyed the zerg on Uthgard, enjoying it here as well, it seems.
Sat 23 Mar 2019 3:28 AM by relvinian
I think this is trying to focus the players even more on keep takes.

Honestly I thought keeps were fine before this patch.

The whole thing. I thought things were pretty well balanced with the tasks and superior to this.
Sat 23 Mar 2019 6:45 AM by Stoertebecker
sebbo wrote:
Sat 23 Mar 2019 1:43 AM
Kinda funny.

Those who zerg the most get even more rp´s now, those who are outnumbered get even less. The gap between high rr and low rr groups will rise. I mean, its just simple maths:

The realm with the highest population will ofc raid more keeps, and actively raid them more often. This results in more rp´s and stuff. Right after the patch was introduced, Midgard simply gatheres 50+ players to raid the sh*t out of hib. From one minute to another, the guards spammed "*** was just killed with 54 enemy players in the area". Some hours later, the guard messages went up to 72 players. Seriously, thats 9 FG´s. Then, suddenly, an albzerg came up as well, while hib didnt even have enough groups around to compete with one of both zergs. And by "around" i dont mean there wasnt many groups in the counterzerg, no, there wasnt even an equal number of groups in all FZ´s combined.

The current RvR situation is as follows: Stealthers everywhere, camping the borderkeeps and porterkeeps, or small zergs. You dont even need a full hand to count the equal fights. Ofc, theres no official 8vs8 zones, or 1vs1 zones and stuff, but most of the time, there is zergs already.

In the current state, its all about going to the fz to die as fast as possible, so you dont miss a single rvr task tick, or go zerg and leech whatever you can. Im not sure how such a change would encourage players to zerg less, and to spread across all zones. It just encourages more zerging imho.
Remembers me a bit of the last months of RvR on Genesis. Or like on Lethantis, where everyone was just sticking a single player, just waiting for him to be worth rp´s again.


Stoertebecker wrote:
Sat 23 Mar 2019 1:29 AM
Spewy wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 10:08 PM
crazy change.... -15% RP its insane. should be lower decrease / increase

If you want more...go and raid keeps or defend them.

Yeah, too funny to go raid keeps with 70+ enemies around. Enjoyed the zerg on Uthgard, enjoying it here as well, it seems.

Then go and raid keep with a fg or solo if you enjoy running as 8 or solo. You can`t? Welcome to DAoC.
Or play on Uthgard, there is no zerg atm.
Sat 23 Mar 2019 9:29 AM by Estat
I can confirm that xp gain from suiciding in RvR is not affected, you still get full xp per task.
Sat 23 Mar 2019 10:21 AM by relvinian
OK, seems they changed bonuses so its only positive but not negative. This is a change in the right direction.

Right now i log in at 5 am hibs have 42 taking keeps and +50% rps.

Everyone else 0.
Sat 23 Mar 2019 5:20 PM by waffel
relvinian wrote:
Sat 23 Mar 2019 10:21 AM
OK, seems they changed bonuses so its only positive but not negative. This is a change in the right direction.

Right now i log in at 5 am hibs have 42 taking keeps and +50% rps.

Everyone else 0.

How in the world did Alb/Mid not make a BG and go around taking the keeps back? What were they doing the entire time???
Sat 23 Mar 2019 6:32 PM by Shadowblade1
Of all the keeps you personally took. How many were defended?
Sat 23 Mar 2019 8:38 PM by Frigzy
waffel wrote:
Sat 23 Mar 2019 5:20 PM
How in the world did Alb/Mid not make a BG and go around taking the keeps back? What were they doing the entire time???

Because people don't want to spend their time off bashing wood.
Sat 23 Mar 2019 9:18 PM by Stoertebecker
Frigzy wrote:
Sat 23 Mar 2019 8:38 PM
waffel wrote:
Sat 23 Mar 2019 5:20 PM
How in the world did Alb/Mid not make a BG and go around taking the keeps back? What were they doing the entire time???

Because people don't want to spend their time off bashing wood.

Where is the difference in bashing wood for 5 mins or spending 5 mins writing a posting, complaining about the rp bonus?

*hint
first would be a bit constructive
Sun 24 Mar 2019 3:57 AM by relvinian
There is no way that player feedback on such large scale changes is wrong.

It is feedback. It is useful for sure and they are listening to it.
Sun 24 Mar 2019 6:39 AM by Zeh
logging in this morning to see the realm (mid), who pretty much always just runs around outside Alb PK in emain with 3-4fg farming uncoordinated albs outside of eu prime, having a 50% rp bonus feels amazing.
Sun 24 Mar 2019 7:09 AM by Frigzy
Stoertebecker wrote:
Sat 23 Mar 2019 9:18 PM
Where is the difference in bashing wood for 5 mins or spending 5 mins writing a posting, complaining about the rp bonus?

*hint
first would be a bit constructive
No, just bashing wood is not 'constructive' at all.

The problem is twofold;

1. Some players just hate taking keeps. This will not change. People really don't understand how personal preference works it seems. "Just go take a keeps" is probably the dumbest comeback out there. It's like saying to people in a flowershop with only red roses; "just love red roses and buy them". That's not how it works, people who don't want red roses will just think WTF? and leave to find their taste. Trust me, there's plenty of competition for a few hours of playing DAoC.

2. They RvR in their own way, which should be equally valuable to the realm and thus so portrayed in the rewards. It is not. Unfortunately not all playstyles are given equal thought and we are even further away from a system that considers all those playstyles and incentivizes them to mesh together in a way that is functional for realm defense. (You wanna roam and kill inc? Great. Killing inc in the broader area surrounding an ongoing keeptake will also grant you credit for the keep pool for instance.)

I hope we can work towards a system that incorporates all RvR efforts in a similar fashion in the future.
Sun 24 Mar 2019 10:07 AM by Kampfar
Bashing wood is destructive.
Sun 24 Mar 2019 11:31 AM by Stoertebecker
Frigzy wrote:
Sun 24 Mar 2019 7:09 AM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Sat 23 Mar 2019 9:18 PM
Where is the difference in bashing wood for 5 mins or spending 5 mins writing a posting, complaining about the rp bonus?

*hint
first would be a bit constructive
No, just bashing wood is not 'constructive' at all.

The problem is twofold;

1. Some players just hate taking keeps. This will not change. People really don't understand how personal preference works it seems. "Just go take a keeps" is probably the dumbest comeback out there. It's like saying to people in a flowershop with only red roses; "just love red roses and buy them". That's not how it works, people who don't want red roses will just think WTF? and leave to find their taste. Trust me, there's plenty of competition for a few hours of playing DAoC.

2. They RvR in their own way, which should be equally valuable to the realm and thus so portrayed in the rewards. It is not. Unfortunately not all playstyles are given equal thought and we are even further away from a system that considers all those playstyles and incentivizes them to mesh together in a way that is functional for realm defense. (You wanna roam and kill inc? Great. Killing inc in the broader area surrounding an ongoing keeptake will also grant you credit for the keep pool for instance.)

I hope we can work towards a system that incorporates all RvR efforts in a similar fashion in the future.

Join the staff then and do it better, if you think you`ve found the holy daoc grail

On 1000 ppl that think they know it better comes 1 that can do it better, are you the one? I know from me that i`m not the one.
It´s an easy thing to criticize in a non responsible position, like always.

If you wanna play DAoC there are exactly 3 options, not more not less. And there is no competition to DAoC`s 3 way rvr system, not yet.
If you think you`ll have more fun on Uthgard or live...go on.
Sun 24 Mar 2019 5:31 PM by Brymmi
So I get penalized for my realm not zerging the most keeps. When in the history of gaming has penalizing the customers ever properly induced the customers to do what the devs want. This is just one more horrific idea that is being repeated. You just lost one customer. I will keep an eye out and when I see you have taken your head out of your ass and reversed this decision I may come back. I realize this is a pet project and you are running this out of your own pocket but do you really want to repeat the steps of the other failed private server or follow the derailed train called Mythic?

JFC, will you at least think about and discuss these ideas before you alienate a huge portion of your player base?

... flame on trolls.
Sun 24 Mar 2019 5:38 PM by astean
Brymmi wrote:
Sun 24 Mar 2019 5:31 PM
So I get penalized for my realm not zerging the most keeps. When in the history of gaming has penalizing the customers ever properly induced the customers to do what the devs want. This is just one more horrific idea that is being repeated. You just lost one customer. I will keep an eye out and when I see you have taken your head out of your ass and reversed this decision I may come back. I realize this is a pet project and you are running this out of your own pocket but do you really want to repeat the steps of the other failed private server or follow the derailed train called Mythic?

JFC, will you at least think about and discuss these ideas before you alienate a huge portion of your player base?

... flame on trolls.

So yeah I normally customers have to pay for a product or service which then you can understand why they have some sense of entitlement. However that's not the case here and you should be thankful you're even allowed to play on this free server.
Sun 24 Mar 2019 5:52 PM by defiasbandit
Brymmi wrote:
Sun 24 Mar 2019 5:31 PM
So I get penalized for my realm not zerging the most keeps. When in the history of gaming has penalizing the customers ever properly induced the customers to do what the devs want. This is just one more horrific idea that is being repeated. You just lost one customer. I will keep an eye out and when I see you have taken your head out of your ass and reversed this decision I may come back. I realize this is a pet project and you are running this out of your own pocket but do you really want to repeat the steps of the other failed private server or follow the derailed train called Mythic?

JFC, will you at least think about and discuss these ideas before you alienate a huge portion of your player base?

... flame on trolls.

There's no penalty. What do you mean?
Sun 24 Mar 2019 6:47 PM by SaintRon
All things equal Mid should have highest # on classes. There's less classes to choose from.

If Mid has more players then those classes look even more popular.
Sun 24 Mar 2019 6:49 PM by SaintRon
Brymmi wrote:
Sun 24 Mar 2019 5:31 PM
So I get penalized for my realm not zerging the most keeps. When in the history of gaming has penalizing the customers ever properly induced the customers to do what the devs want. This is just one more horrific idea that is being repeated. You just lost one customer. I will keep an eye out and when I see you have taken your head out of your ass and reversed this decision I may come back. I realize this is a pet project and you are running this out of your own pocket but do you really want to repeat the steps of the other failed private server or follow the derailed train called Mythic?

JFC, will you at least think about and discuss these ideas before you alienate a huge portion of your player base?

... flame on trolls.

I wasn't aware you were paying. or they were making money off of you.

Maybe you shouldn't be a moron? You're not a "customer".
Mon 25 Mar 2019 9:23 AM by jg777
SaintRon wrote:
Sun 24 Mar 2019 6:49 PM
Brymmi wrote:
Sun 24 Mar 2019 5:31 PM
So I get penalized for my realm not zerging the most keeps. When in the history of gaming has penalizing the customers ever properly induced the customers to do what the devs want. This is just one more horrific idea that is being repeated. You just lost one customer. I will keep an eye out and when I see you have taken your head out of your ass and reversed this decision I may come back. I realize this is a pet project and you are running this out of your own pocket but do you really want to repeat the steps of the other failed private server or follow the derailed train called Mythic?

JFC, will you at least think about and discuss these ideas before you alienate a huge portion of your player base?

... flame on trolls.

I wasn't aware you were paying. or they were making money off of you.

Maybe you shouldn't be a moron? You're not a "customer".

A customer is a user or consumer of a product/service, regardless of whether a fee is attached to it. However, not paying for the service/product does release quite a lot of their entitlement to “have it there way”. Phoenix staff can offer whatever they’d like and people can use it as they will, but somewhere I sense a need to balance between customer demands and their vision of the product/service. Ultimately if an MMORPG doesn’t have many users, it loses its value considerably, and I doubt Phoenix staff want to waste their time ultimately creating a product/service fee use.

In my opinion they are doing a decent job balancing their vision and customer demands, implementing ideas, making changes, sometimes reverting changes, and I’m presently confident they’ll provide a good product/service. They won’t make everybody happy, but the goal is many not all.
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