Going Slash Briton instead of Thrust Saracen on an Infil just gimps you when fighting other assassins

Started 22 Apr 2021
by Yokahu
in Albion
Other than for the looks, there is no reason to be a Slash Briton. The Armor Resist Table nerf (from +/-10% to +/-5%) made the Slash Briton obsolete in assassins fights. The advantages of slash become non-existent when you get diseased by another assassin... and even without disease, the advantage is questionable.

Assumptions for the analysis:
Item stats: +75
Buff Pot Dex/stre: +83
Buff Pot Qui: +50
Disease Poison De-buff: -35 Stre
Starting Points for Saracen: +10 Dex / +15 Qui
Starting Points for Briton: +10 Stre / +15 Qui

Saracen Thrust:
Stre: 223
Dex: 293
Base Weapon Dmg: 258 (no disease)
Base Weapon Dmg: 241 (diseased)

Briton Slash:
Stre: 243
Dex: 263
Base Weapon Dmg: 243 (no disease)
Base Weapon Dmg: 208 (diseased)

Before the resist nerf, fighting a SB as a Slash Briton would net you 35 more base weapon damage in comparison to a Thrust Saracen. In the other hand, fighting a NS as a Thrust Saracen would net you 39 more base weapon damage in comparison to a Slash Briton.

After the resist nerf, as a Slash Briton you only get a +10 base weapon damage vs SB when comparted to a Saracen Thrust. A Saracen Thrust would get +27 base weapon damage against NS when compared to a Slash Briton. The difference is starting to show, right?

Now, when another assassin diseases you (which they will), you lose 35 strength. Hmm, now instead of +10/-27 (on a Slash Briton vs SB/NS), you get -10/-43. when compared to a Thrust Saracen. In other words, a Thrust Saracen has more Weapon Base Damage against a SB when diseased than a Slash Briton (BTW -a SB is resistant to Thrust and Vulnerable against Slash). HMM!

Before the nerf, you would still get an advantage against SB as a Slash Briton even while diseased. Now is just not the case.
So, other than "for the cool factor" what reason is there to go Briton/Slash on an infil when most of the time you fight other assassins. Even when fighting other classes without disease, there is no clear advantage going slash Briton over thrust Saracen with the Armor Resist Table nerf.
Thu 22 Apr 2021 10:41 PM by Irkeno
Briton slash still does better vs Sbs.

But honesty it doesnt matter, although seemingly the top tier all went Briton.

Dandare Briton Slash and thrust intermittently.

Bellelle went Briton thrust.

Savrun Briton Slash / Thrust

Mcnasty too. He also made a few comparison vids they might help you.

Go figure 😄
Thu 22 Apr 2021 10:51 PM by gotwqqd
What are primary/secondary/tertiary stats for a infil?
If strength is primary you are minimizing the benefits or this stat increasing more than dex by picking thrust which halves its impact.

Well I guess it’s dex/quick/str
So forget about above

I would think Saracen would be better thrust
Although you lose dex you gain some defense and 25 points in stats toward weapon type
Fri 23 Apr 2021 12:37 AM by Yokahu
Irkeno wrote:
Thu 22 Apr 2021 10:41 PM
Briton slash still does better vs Sbs.

But honesty it doesnt matter, although seemingly the top tier all went Briton.

Dandare Briton Slash and thrust intermittently.

Bellelle went Briton thrust.

Savrun Briton Slash / Thrust

Mcnasty too. He also made a few comparison vids they might help you.

Go figure 😄

A Briton Slash infil will not perform better than a Thrust Saracen against a SB as long as the SB use disease poison and it doesn’t get purged. Oh, and all sins use disease.
I did the math... it’s because disease debuff strength and +5% from the table resist table is not high enough to make up for it.

It doesn’t matter if the top tier wants to play with a handicap against other assassins... if they change to Saracen thrust they will perform better.
Fri 23 Apr 2021 6:36 AM by inoeth
therabbin is sara/thrust for the 2s stun

savrun top tier? lol
mcnasty top tier? lol
Fri 23 Apr 2021 9:40 AM by Hangel
Breton or Saracen for me is indifferent if you choose to go thrust, I made it Breton because I can always change to slash if need w/o a race respec.
I'm not play slash from 1 year and half but I always found slash better vs sb, and better damage than thrust. But I prefer thrust for the style utility and for direct stun.
I think Inconnu and saracen are nice too if you choose thrust, but Breton work good anyway
Sat 24 Apr 2021 4:39 AM by Yokahu
Hangel wrote:
Fri 23 Apr 2021 9:40 AM
I'm not play slash from 1 year and half but I always found slash better vs sb, and better damage than thrust.
That was probably before the armor resist table nerf. Currently, a thrust Saracen infil will do more dmg to a SB than a Slash Briton as long as the SB diseases you. So there is no reason to go Briton if you are min/max’ing.

If they remove the strength debuff portion of the disease poison, then the slash Briton will become relevant again.
Sat 24 Apr 2021 7:27 AM by Centenario
The debuff applies to weapon skill, not to strength.
So it would also debuff equally a thrust infi.
I also see some people starting fight with charge debuff d/q on top.
Sat 24 Apr 2021 7:50 AM by DJ2000
They are talking about the -Str of the Disease.
Mon 26 Apr 2021 12:05 PM by SlowMo
I am not playing on a regular basis atm, but I do from time to time.

Dind´t know about about the armor resist table nerf, when did this hit the server?
What was the reason behind this? Any notes about it?

Sad to see, as I am playing Briton slash inf :-(
Thu 29 Apr 2021 2:19 AM by Yokahu
SlowMo wrote:
Mon 26 Apr 2021 12:05 PM
I am not playing on a regular basis atm, but I do from time to time.

Dind´t know about about the armor resist table nerf, when did this hit the server?
What was the reason behind this? Any notes about it?

Sad to see, as I am playing Briton slash inf :-(

Just respec to Thrust. The difference between a Thrust Briton and a Thrust Saracen is pretty small... like 5 less weapon dmg, but a few more hit points hehe. The problem is Slash and the Strength debuff on the disease poison.
Thu 29 Apr 2021 11:11 AM by SlowMo
No time and plats/feathers for new sc.

I just wnat to understnad the reason behind this - juts looks like a nerf out of nowhere.
Thu 29 Apr 2021 12:39 PM by Saroi
Yokahu wrote:
Sat 24 Apr 2021 4:39 AM
Hangel wrote:
Fri 23 Apr 2021 9:40 AM
I'm not play slash from 1 year and half but I always found slash better vs sb, and better damage than thrust.
That was probably before the armor resist table nerf. Currently, a thrust Saracen infil will do more dmg to a SB than a Slash Briton as long as the SB diseases you. So there is no reason to go Briton if you are min/max’ing.

If they remove the strength debuff portion of the disease poison, then the slash Briton will become relevant again.

A Thrust Saracen Inf will not do more damage than a Briton slash. Disease reduces strength by 7.5% With 243 str, that is around 18-19 str. and that str. has a very low effect on your damage. I was Aug Str. 9 a long time in OF and those extra 34 str, were about 10-13 Mainhand damage. 19 Str would be something around 5-6 less damage. And if you consider half of the str is calculated for Thrust, you also lose a bit damage as thrust so the difference to slash is again, very small. 2-3 damage.

If you compare this to the 15% damage difference given from slash(vulnerable +5%) to thrust(resistant -10%), I really don't know how someone can say that the disease part has such a big impact that it neglects this kind of bonus. Even if you calculate disease and the lv 17 str. debuff, which has a value of 44, it will still not make up for the 15% damage difference of the armor.

Besides all that, Thrust Mainhand slowest is 3.9, while Slash can be 4.2 or 4.3(if you consider the endu drain). This also gives about 10-15 extra damage just from the speed on hit. This makes it impossible for Thrust to deal the same damage as slash.

There is a reason why for a long time, most Inf were slash. It did more damage to SB's and you could still take on NS. While being Thrust made it almost impossible vs. SB's. Thrust really began to shine with several changes like the HP buff, ws/con debuff making the ws con part having a bigger effect on damage reduction. So you had longer fights and this is needed as Thrust since the biggest strength are the direct evade stun, Ratfang bait and the 34% asr from the lv 39 side style.
Thu 29 Apr 2021 12:42 PM by Saroi
SlowMo wrote:
Mon 26 Apr 2021 12:05 PM
I am not playing on a regular basis atm, but I do from time to time.

Dind´t know about about the armor resist table nerf, when did this hit the server?
What was the reason behind this? Any notes about it?

Sad to see, as I am playing Briton slash inf :-(

2019-11-08 Friday
- armor vulnerability has been decreased from 10 to 5%

The biggest reason was because of the complains from Midgard stealthers. They were facing a 20% difference against Hib stealthers. (Hib being resistant to slash, having them get 10% less damage, while all rangers/NS are blade spec, having them do 10% more damage to SB's/Hunters).
Thu 29 Apr 2021 1:42 PM by Yokahu
Saroi wrote:
Thu 29 Apr 2021 12:39 PM
Disease reduces strength by 7.5%
[...]
slash(vulnerable +5%) to thrust(resistant -10%),
[...]
Thanks for the comment, I was erroneously assuming the resistance was nerfed as well to -5%, but it seems it kept the same -10% as before.
Also, assuming your 7.5% strength debuff from the disease poison is correct, you are right: a Slash Briton will do more damage to a SB than a Thrust Saracen... about 11 more weapon damage than a Thrust Saracen when you are diseased.

My main argument was debunked, but I still want to point out the big disadvantage of going Slash instead of Thrust when fighting NS's... approx 47 more weapon damage with Thrust. I respec'd my Briton to Thrust and in average I'm doing better than with my Slash spec... I go against about the same number of SB as NS, and let me tell you NS are so much easier now, and I barely see the difference when fighting SBs. The damage disparity between Slash and Thrust is real (benefiting Thrust).
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