Charge Item / Toy Evaluation

Started 13 Apr 2021
by gruenesschaf
in Planned Changes
The idea is to add a couple toys, these would be items usable from your inventory like potions and hence don't require template changes.

These toys are intended to be impactful, comparable to active RAs.

There are 2 categories of toys
1) 10min duration self buffs, usually defensive procs or offensive procs. Only one of them can be active at the same time. Only usable outside of combat, like the combo buff potions. These share a 1 minute reuse that is separate from the combo potion.
2) Active / Combat usage utilities, all of them share the same 5 minute cooldown which is entirely separate from other charge cooldowns

The initial evaluation phase would make 10 charge variants available for 100g from a vendor. This phase will last about 2 - 3 weeks, near the end of it we'll decide to scrap the feature, move forward with it or let a vote decide that, all depending on player sentiment after about 2ish weeks.
Expect toy changes, additions and removals during this phase. Hoarding is inadvisable as a removal would include the removal of the already purchased items as well.

Given that many of these toys are mechanics / spells that didn't exist here previously, some bugs and/or weird interactions are to be expected initially.

The starting set of toys is listed below. Non percentage values are omitted for now as those are expected to change somewhat frequently in the first couple days.

Category 1 / Self Buffs: These do not stack, you can only have one of them active at the same time
defensive proc: apply hot on self and apply dot on enemy
caster + support only: cast stun & mez block aka cere bracer
melee classes only: defensive proc: 100% absorb mhb
melee classes only: offensive proc: increase melee damage to doors for 6 seconds
melee classes only: offensive proc: spawn gray fnf add that leeches life for the player, aka traitors dagger

Category 2 / Actives: These share the same 5 minute cooldown and do not trigger the normal charge item cooldown
spawn 3 green fnf adds, aka zoarkat
self mana / endu / health hot 10% every 5 sec for 30 sec
5s 100% damage taken reduction followed by 5s +100% damage taken
6s silence & disarm pbae
support only: pbae rezz
support only: pbae 1k range 33% heal
caster + support only: group 25% mana return
self 50% mana return

---
Edit:

The category 1 / self buff items have been removed.
The offensive category 2 / active items have been removed.

The remaining category 2 / active items are:
self mana / endu / health hot 10% every 5 sec for 30 sec
5s 100% damage taken reduction followed by 5s +100% damage taken
support only: pbae rezz
support only: pbae 1k range 33% heal
caster + support only: group 25% mana return
self 50% mana return
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:02 AM by DJ2000
... say hello to not-Artifacts ...

gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:55 AM
The idea is to add a couple toys, these would be items usable from your inventory like potions and hence don't require template changes.
Commendable, but the more you try to keep the players safe from any temp changes, the harder it gets each time. Making temp changes more tolerable, would maybe give you more freeway in handling other stuff.

gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:55 AM
These toys are intended to be impactful, comparable to active RAs.
Unless they are forbidden in RvR-zones, they will always have an impact, no matter what it is or what they do.
But i guess you mean that these will be "Game changing", which i am 50/50 if i like it or not.


gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:55 AM
There are 2 categories of toys
1) 10min duration self buffs, usually defensive procs or offensive procs. Only one of them can be active at the same time. Only usable outside of combat, like the combo buff potions. These share a 1 minute reuse that is separate from the combo potion.
2) Active / Combat usage utilities, all of them share the same 5 minute cooldown which is entirely separate from other charge cooldowns
More timers, upon timers. Manage your timers, boys.
A trend i don't really like, but there will be plenty that ache for a change like this and will take this in a heartbeat.

gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:55 AM
The initial evaluation phase would make 10 charge variants available for 100g from a vendor. This phase will last about 2 - 3 weeks, near the end of it we'll decide to scrap the feature, move forward with it or let a vote decide that, all depending on player sentiment after about 2ish weeks.
Expect toy changes, additions and removals during this phase. Hoarding is inadvisable as a removal would include the removal of the already purchased items as well.
And if no removal happens everybody keeps their toys for 100g? Just wipe regardless after the test period before including them again.

gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:55 AM
Given that many of these toys are mechanics / spells that didn't exist here previously, some bugs and/or weird interactions are to be expected initially.
Thumps up. Thats what the evaluation period is for.

gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:55 AM
The starting set of toys is listed below. Non percentage values are omitted for now as those are expected to change somewhat frequently in the first couple days.

Category 1 / Self Buffs: These do not stack, you can only have one of them active at the same time
1. defensive proc: apply hot on self and apply dot on enemy
2. caster + support only: cast stun & mez block aka cere bracer
3. melee classes only: defensive proc: 100% absorb mhb
4. melee classes only: offensive proc: increase melee damage to doors for 6 seconds
5. melee classes only: offensive proc: spawn gray fnf add that leeches life for the player, aka traitors dagger
1. imho, get rid of this. no evaluation needed. solo 1v1 no point if both have it. vs archer the archer will qq. vs RA5. Does this transfer to necro pet?
2. Must have obv. Money sink? Does this transfer to necro pet?
3. seems fine,i guess. More RNG in melee battles if you like it or not.
4. oh, hello Midgard BG.
5. why not, adding more variety to solo i guess. 8man? gg or qq

Where is the hastener/speed chant buff?
Where is the Magic Health buffer?
Anti Siege buff?
CC dampener/reduction buff?

Let these buffs be able to override each other (1min reuse) if you want to switch tactics/setup vs varied enemies.

gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:55 AM
Category 2 / Actives: These share the same 5 minute cooldown and do not trigger the normal charge item cooldown
1. spawn 3 green fnf adds, aka zoarkat
2. self mana / endu / health hot 10% every 5 sec for 30 sec
3. 5s 100% damage taken reduction followed by 5s +100% damage taken
4. 6s silence & disarm pbae
5. support only: pbae rezz
6. support only: pbae 1k range 33% heal
7. caster + support only: group 25% mana return
8. self 50% mana return
1. more pets, just what we needed.
2. even if watered down, this is still a no from me.
3. more tools for organized play, huh. qq soon
4. first comes, first wins. (SoS)
5. ...sure why not. Mana management is for scrubs anyway.
6. see 5. Also Druid/Bard/Warden - Cleric/Friar - Healer/Sham i assume.
7. grp mana return 25% ? are you serious? see 5.
8. some form of mana regen will be in no matter what, so this seems to be the most reasonable one.

iam sitting this one out.

You know, you dont have to start big. just do some small stuff like speed/disease cures and such, and add some stuff later in, after a first evaluation.
w/e
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:08 AM by Lundarian
Respectfully, adding artifact charges to a non-ToA server is a terrible idea :/
The main gripe people had with ToA was the powercreep, and balance issues.
i'd be fine with some of these toys IF they were PvE-benefit only.

My 2 coppers.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:09 AM by Noashakra
First of all, thank you for tying new ideas. But I can't say I am a huge fan of the abilities.
It's a bit too "I win". You moc ? Sorry ! 6s silence & disarm pbae.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:12 AM by giz0r
I'm not a fan of the actives. Even though you're limited to one every 5 mintues, it's still sounds like too big of an impact in my opinion.

The self buffs I can live with, as a bit more procs could be fun.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:12 AM by borodino1812
I much appreciate this server, but adding these abilities is not a good idea. This will be too much of an "I win" button. Please reconsider.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:12 AM by Ceen
Just no
I like the classic play, please don't look for ideas on live / ToA thx.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:13 AM by Teisiphone
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:09 AM
First of all, thank you for tying new ideas. But I can't say I am a huge fan of the abilities.
It's a bit too "I win". You moc ? Sorry ! 6s silence & disarm pbae.

That would be a direct counter to "I win"
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:13 AM by Runental
Yes please!

Some of those actives a really needed to counter allready owerpowered stuff. Do it!
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:14 AM by ulf
error to do that !x
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:15 AM by evert
while I'm not against adding something like this, please consider 1vX balance as well. In particular, as with the RR5s you were going to add, these are really defensive and will further increase ttk in a 1vX scenario, meaning more chance for adds/stun timer running out/mezz wearing off, etc. Artis were balanced in the context of toa dmg bonuses, so you can't just add this on a "normal" base.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:17 AM by Yap
Hummm bad idea .... Don't do that
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:19 AM by Ceen
Btw you stole charge buffs with the argument to even out the battlefield.
Now you add toys for the same price which needs to be used every fight + a charge buff.
Hmm
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:20 AM by Serenish
One question:

Why?
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:23 AM by Babajaga
Thanks.






But no.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:32 AM by Irkeno
Teisiphone wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:13 AM
That would be a direct counter to "I win"

Agree with this. Lets try it.

Current combat is a bit stale. Happy to trial it.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:33 AM by Lynee
Hmm, interesting, would definitely need some testing though.
Opinion atm: some things will probably need a number restriction like pbae rezz, number of fnf pets spawned etc. While having an extra MCL would certainly be nice I'm not sure that loosening the power clamp is going to the best idea.
As said before, can only be tested.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:33 AM by Serenish
If you want to bring something new, bring the RR5 abilities...
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:35 AM by Spids
I dont like :/
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:49 AM by Cymosxl
No need for this,thx but not
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:52 AM by evert
where are the offensive abilities? malice, battler just to start?
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:55 AM by Noashakra
Teisiphone wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:13 AM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:09 AM
First of all, thank you for tying new ideas. But I can't say I am a huge fan of the abilities.
It's a bit too "I win". You moc ? Sorry ! 6s silence & disarm pbae.

That would be a direct counter to "I win"

In a group, I don't think moc is too OP. The only problem with MoC is when it's coupled with LT in solo.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:57 AM by eiche
NN that Stuff !!!

Pls bring RR 5 abilities


Ty
Tue 13 Apr 2021 12:02 PM by Raecyn
Changes seem great. A good first step to new things.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 12:04 PM by Lail
Tinkering with the meta is fine, adding ToA toys to a non ToA ruleset is not. Please don't. It will mess up everything and will increase the knowledge threshold for new(er) players even more.

Stop this before it has begun please.

addition: hib caster will be even less playable with this
Tue 13 Apr 2021 12:08 PM by Bohu
I prefer RR5 ability. No need for news toys.

You can try it in an event if you want.

And maybe immune cc with the light tank charge
Tue 13 Apr 2021 12:08 PM by SaintRon
Too much power creep here. Can't say I like this.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 12:14 PM by Blitze
1. Adding toys that cost money just makes each RvR run more expensive (with no real impact as everyone has access to the same ones). In a similar way to buffpots/charges already do.

2. RvR costing more money means more time farming, less time RvRing.

3. If you die more it costs you more, as you need to rebuff more.

4. This change would make play styles that die a lot (e.g. visi solo) even more unpopular than they already are.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 12:16 PM by Succi
Unneccessary
Tue 13 Apr 2021 12:22 PM by Ceen
Blitze wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 12:14 PM
1. Adding toys that cost money just makes each RvR run more expensive (with no real impact as everyone has access to the same ones). In a similar way to buffpots/charges already do.

2. RvR costing more money means more time farming, less time RvRing.

3. If you die more it costs you more, as you need to rebuff more.

4. This change would make play styles that die a lot (e.g. visi solo) even more unpopular than they already are.
If you are a dedicated visi solo you most likely play a hybrid char like champ / thane whatever and already spent 100p on your template.
They are used to an expensive lifestyle and get more toys, I don't think they are bothered too much by it.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 12:25 PM by evert
Ceen wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 12:22 PM
Blitze wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 12:14 PM
1. Adding toys that cost money just makes each RvR run more expensive (with no real impact as everyone has access to the same ones). In a similar way to buffpots/charges already do.

2. RvR costing more money means more time farming, less time RvRing.

3. If you die more it costs you more, as you need to rebuff more.

4. This change would make play styles that die a lot (e.g. visi solo) even more unpopular than they already are.
If you are a dedicated visi solo you most likely play a hybrid char like champ / thane whatever and already spent 100p on your template.
They are used to an expensive lifestyle and get more toys, I don't think they are bothered too much by it.

lol
Tue 13 Apr 2021 12:27 PM by byron
uhmm personally don't like the idea so much. I don't feel like realms/classes are yet balanced and, adding new toys, it can get worse. Then now, after infinite sprint thanks to potions, casters will have also infinite mana : mana pot, chunck of legion, mana regen, mcl and now also new charges plus other heals.
90% of alb/hib groups are casters and these ablities seem to push caster setup always more and more.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 12:39 PM by Sepplord
So after a bunch of huge balancing changes now you want to add a huge bunch of passive and active abilities that will turn everything upside down?
Not to forget, chargebuffs were removed because it was deemed too expensive and waiting for timers was too limiting. How do these thing factor into that


Overall it looks mostly like defensive tools and o shit buttons. Killing stuff gets harder, and the people who have huge issues with dieing more than two times per night can now roam the lands even safer. Even when they get caught of guard, support doesn't get CCed, the squishie can make themselves immune

But keep in mind, this is all just my personal bias and conservative anti-change talk


EDIT: lol, just saw that mezzimmu isn't support only but for casters too....wow...so the whole castergroup will now resist first CC? Where are spellshields instead of giving melees procs against themselves?
Tue 13 Apr 2021 12:40 PM by Moondragon
Thank you for all your hard work trying to improve the game. Many things that you have added have been fresh and helpful. However, these changes sound too much like ToA and I don't want to go down that path. I don't even want to think about going down that path.

Please, please, please do not add stuff like this to this wonderful game and server.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 12:42 PM by FUINY7
borodino1812 wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:12 AM
I much appreciate this server, but adding these abilities is not a good idea. This will be too much of an "I win" button. Please reconsider.
the opposite, it will just add counter measure to "I WIN" RA and increase game complexity, so it's a win for the balance.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 12:44 PM by Teisiphone
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:55 AM
Teisiphone wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:13 AM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:09 AM
First of all, thank you for tying new ideas. But I can't say I am a huge fan of the abilities.
It's a bit too "I win". You moc ? Sorry ! 6s silence & disarm pbae.

That would be a direct counter to "I win"

In a group, I don't think moc is too OP. The only problem with MoC is when it's coupled with LT in solo.

Right, MoCing zoo groups were never a barely counterable issue on this server neither in 8v8 nor in the recent 4v4 events.
Do you mind to tell me who you run with in any group versus group related RvR?
Tue 13 Apr 2021 12:45 PM by EuinaR
Big No!
Keep out of ToA pls.

Rather have 20 min duration pots and a hastener pot!
Tue 13 Apr 2021 1:17 PM by Taln
I think some of these are too powerful anyway looking forward to try them out and see how they will impact the game, as long as you will do a vote at the end of the test to keep/change/get rid of them
Tue 13 Apr 2021 1:20 PM by Centenario
gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:55 AM
Cat 1: caster + support only: cast stun & mez block aka cere bracer
I don't understand this, please can somebody explain?
gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:55 AM
melee classes only: defensive proc: 100% absorb mhb
We already have mhb charges.
gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:55 AM
melee classes only: offensive proc: increase melee damage to doors for 6 seconds
Why not active one here? have to wait 1 minute to be able to increase damage for 6 seconds?

Category 2 / Actives: These share the same 5 minute cooldown and do not trigger the normal charge item cooldown
gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:55 AM
spawn 3 green fnf adds, aka zoarkat
No clutter please, avoid more entities.
gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:55 AM
self mana / endu / health hot 10% every 5 sec for 30 sec
This seems a little OP for high health pool chars.
gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:55 AM
5s 100% damage taken reduction followed by 5s +100% damage taken
OP, would need a color the player in flashy red when in invincible state and in flashy green when in vulnerable state.
gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:55 AM
6s silence & disarm pbae
Really OP, assist train prevention. after PA get immunity during stun. MoC nullify. Maybe just replace MoC with what it should be: 50% chance to interrupt instead of 0%.
gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:55 AM
[...]
all suggestions seem either too impactful or too OP

It really feels like an late april's fool joke.
Please can you tell what you are really trying to counteract instead of being evasive?
We don't have infinite buttons near our fingers, we are lazy to set up good macros.
Maybe having the /event pet instead of always having to go look for a pet in the RvR zone would be good.
Maybe having horse be better in RvR would be good.

Tuning classes ability would be the best:
All classes make interrupt time be standard 3seconds.
Make casting a spell remove the speed.

Healer:
Have MoC only active for defensive spells (heal/cure/celerity) instead of having healer MoC aoe stun/mezz/root...

Bard:
Have Instant Amnesia single share a cooldown with Instant Amnesia AoE
Remove Root spell (Mezz - > purge -> root) or give purge a 10sec immunity to all CC.

Friar:
Give Speed or Root or Cure Mezz or Pulsing Bubble
Tue 13 Apr 2021 1:22 PM by Pappons
Not a big fan.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 1:37 PM by chewchew
I like that you dont want people to re-template. But as I understand one could have all of these buffs/artifacts in inventory and chose which one to use based on the given situation in combat?
I think this will increase the gap between pugs and setgroups even more than it is already. Because the margin of managing which of the X number of new toys to use in which kind of situation in fight will be bigger than if its only 1 or 2 things you are able to use.
Adding rr5 abilities would be a better solution to give players 1 additional tool to counter certain things in fights and would fit the server-setting much better than artifacts imho.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 1:38 PM by ExcretusMaximus
Not gonna bother going through and reading all the crying responses I know the haters of change are making, but just wanted to say that you might want to be careful with too many FnF interrupts. I know that's what the trial period is for, and I'm not playing Chicken Little, it's just something to keep an eye on.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 1:44 PM by boho
Just add ToA instead. Artifacts are already better balanced and more interesting. Class changes and RR5s shake up a stale meta. Plus you get a bunch of PvE content.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 1:45 PM by hemlockrogue
Don't do this.

Stop trying to ruin this game.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 1:57 PM by lurker
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:09 AM
First of all, thank you for tying new ideas. But I can't say I am a huge fan of the abilities.
It's a bit too "I win". You moc ? Sorry ! 6s silence & disarm pbae.

wait, your complaint is that an existing iWin button will get a counter? that lasts only for the first 20% of its duration.

???
Tue 13 Apr 2021 2:13 PM by Muse
The idea itself is Totally Fine, But a Limit to use only one item at all via „choose the one item“ would bei needed.

Havin access to all uses depending on the Situation Might be over the top.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 2:23 PM by Sepplord
Muse wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 2:13 PM
The idea itself is Totally Fine, But a Limit to use only one item at all via „choose the one item“ would bei needed.

Havin access to all uses depending on the Situation Might be over the top.

Would surely also help with inventory management...i really don't have any desire to keep another page full of different charge items on every character
Tue 13 Apr 2021 2:41 PM by boomber
I will give it a try I guess but will most likely stop playing until the vote happens where this idea is inevitably scrapped
Tue 13 Apr 2021 2:45 PM by Simon73
Please no
Tue 13 Apr 2021 2:49 PM by Shamissa
Since people are crying thinking this is TOA @Uthred which has nothing to do with, why dont you add ToA its a lot more fun man.
I bet you the would be a lot more happier.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 3:41 PM by Svekt
There is already such a skill gap on this server when considering the organized and vetted 8mans vs those that casually zerg etc and everything in between.

Adding these mechanics aka 'toys' will only further separate these brackets with a wider gap.

A majority of this gaming population already doesn't understand how to layer the mechanics here and adding more layers to the mix will only allow the min/max players a bigger I WIN window of opportunity.

You are going to have a small percentage of the population that will truly understand how to apply these toys... and they will probably enjoy putting their knowledge to use
Then you are going to have some players who are going to start losing fights they normally win and there win/loss ration will begin to change.

Understand that this patch has a pre-requisite of two things:
1- Players actually want something like this
2- Playerbase needs to be one that actually desires change and regularly wants self improvement

I could be very wrong but it would seem that this is not a favorable looking change as far as most feedback is concerned and I also know that people tend to leave when you make it harder for them to win. You still have a player base that largely doesn't even understand how to play their own classes to the fullest potential and you want to make it more complicated or intricate now.

While I could see myself enjoying these changes if I still played in organized 8mans and had the same time window to carve out every night to keep getting better ... but I don't and these are certainly not changes that I am looking forward to dealing with at this stage of the game.

This patch is only going to allow the groups that already wipe zergs to do it more efficiently and in larger batches now... and honestly speaking as a player who used to do this... its not healthy

Just my 2 cents... love it or hate it whatever im used to the thumbs down...
Tue 13 Apr 2021 3:41 PM by Raecyn
Please add TOA, but instead of the grind for artifacts and scrolls set up new raids where they drop and make the buyable with feathers. This might make crafting worth something more other then one and done suits.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 3:57 PM by CLamoRR
silence is a bit too harsh for this server; there's a reason it didn't last on ywain and it will just be worse here where no counters exist.

i'd remove that and replace it with the cast speed increase charge from Gem of the Harbinger for tanks and the zo bracer fumble for casters.

the idea in general is great though
Tue 13 Apr 2021 4:02 PM by Lail
Svekt wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 3:41 PM
There is already such a skill gap on this server when considering the organized and vetted 8mans vs those that casually zerg etc and everything in between.

Adding these mechanics aka 'toys' will only further separate these brackets with a wider gap.

A majority of this gaming population already doesn't understand how to layer the mechanics here and adding more layers to the mix will only allow the min/max players a bigger I WIN window of opportunity.

You are going to have a small percentage of the population that will truly understand how to apply these toys... and they will probably enjoy putting their knowledge to use
Then you are going to have some players who are going to start losing fights they normally win and there win/loss ration will begin to change.

Understand that this patch has a pre-requisite of two things:
1- Players actually want something like this
2- Playerbase needs to be one that actually desires change and regularly wants self improvement

I could be very wrong but it would seem that this is not a favorable looking change as far as most feedback is concerned and I also know that people tend to leave when you make it harder for them to win. You still have a player base that largely doesn't even understand how to play their own classes to the fullest potential and you want to make it more complicated or intricate now.

While I could see myself enjoying these changes if I still played in organized 8mans and had the same time window to carve out every night to keep getting better ... but I don't and these are certainly not changes that I am looking forward to dealing with at this stage of the game.

This patch is only going to allow the groups that already wipe zergs to do it more efficiently and in larger batches now... and honestly speaking as a player who used to do this... its not healthy

Just my 2 cents... love it or hate it whatever im used to the thumbs down...

This is exactly how it is.
Ty!
Tue 13 Apr 2021 4:11 PM by Talsh
This is a bad idea.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 4:12 PM by Astaa
A bit leftfield!

Will check them out.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 4:14 PM by Boo
Dear DEVs,

thank you for your work and the uncountable hours of work. You´ve created a great server which can be used for free!

In the past you have proven that implemented changes have been corrected and adjusted when they didn´t worked the way it
was intended.
So there´s no reason why I should not trust you this time.

Bring up the changes, do the weeks of testing an let´s see how it works. I´m pretty sure that all those who´re yelling "the end is near"
will still be here and we´ll all have a loooong time of fun together.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 4:20 PM by mamesjoore
Serenish wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:33 AM
If you want to bring something new, bring the RR5 abilities...

Yes they are far more interesting: https://forums.freddyshouse.com/threads/rr5-abilities-listing-useful-info.183503/
Tue 13 Apr 2021 4:25 PM by Jeninii
I agree.... Bad idea...;(
Tue 13 Apr 2021 4:27 PM by soremir
One TOA thing I do really miss is the shape changing, especially Dream Sphere. Would love to see some of the more fun stuff brought in in this way, although maybe not so much the pure combat-orientated stuff.

Something to consider could be that instead of just buying them, it could be fun if there was a way you had to win them or something. We will have to farm PVE to afford these anyway, so maybe having something we have to do instead of just killing loads of goblins would make it more fun. If they will be in the game, I would personally prefer to see them be rarer, instead of just everyone dropping silence every 5 minutes ad nauseum in every fight.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 4:28 PM by finyan
Log out now, stay off until this has been removed. Best wishes
Tue 13 Apr 2021 4:33 PM by Astaa
Ok, from reading through the descriptions

Damage increase/reduction gem. needs to go, yet another boost for CC'ers (mincers/skalds/any caster) 100% boost to viper damage and cheeky vanish, anyone?
Damage immunity gem. 5 seconds will have a massive effect on keep takes, to the point of making defending postern or doors a complete waste of time.
Helpers. Actually a small nerf for mincers/skalds if it keeps speed from ticking, but there would be better options. Annoying for casters too, which I'm cool with
The rest of them, handy I guess, heals and mana heals etc but just not necessary really. Just one of those things that everyone has that just prolongs fights rather than benefit them much.

Nice to see new things, but I don't think this is that great, personally.

I'll give them an honest test while they are around but from the looks of it, they are a bit much. I would rather see more drops or something, or at least some sort of real choice in equipping, It's so easy to template and cap everything with very little variety, on any class.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 4:35 PM by EscapeArtist
People asked for toa zones...

...and got toa abilities:-(
Tue 13 Apr 2021 4:39 PM by Lawdawg
rvr variety, without destroying templates, and without adding a grind. I'm optimistic.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 4:39 PM by Peppar
disappointing don't do it
Tue 13 Apr 2021 4:41 PM by Uthred
The new toys are ingame now. You can get them from this friendly fellow (picture below) who can be found in your local relic village or in the <Banished> camp. Each item will cost 100g and will have 10 charges. Enjoy.

Tue 13 Apr 2021 4:42 PM by Noashakra
Great, it's already live. So now I need to pay hundreads of golds and have plenty of different OP potions to use depending on the situation.
Alb is buffed because we can't imez the sorc anymore and it's impossible to beat a sorc at the mez war.

Can't wait for them to be removed tbh, no motivation to log.

rvr variety, without destroying templates, and without adding a grind. I'm optimistic.

Yeah 10g every 2mn of fighting + all the other charges you usually use, so cheap.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 4:46 PM by Astaa
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 4:42 PM
Great, it's already live. So now I need to pay hundreads of golds and have plenty of different OP potions to use depending on the situation.
Alb is buffed because we can't imez the sorc anymore and it's impossible to beat a sorc at the mez war.

Can't wait for them to be removed tbh, no motivation to log.

rvr variety, without destroying templates, and without adding a grind. I'm optimistic.

Yeah 10g every 2mn of fighting + all the othercharges you usually use, so cheap.

I imagine that is the money sink aspect to remove gold from the economy. Forcing people with very little gold to buy stuff to compete is not the way of doing it.

The best way to get money out of the economy would be to allow reskins with gold/plat
Tue 13 Apr 2021 4:47 PM by Wakanidoo
like a disguised perfume from TOA...
Tue 13 Apr 2021 4:54 PM by Geckomor
Wow already live... Why not make a pool and ask people before?

Devs do whatever they want, not wondering anymore why people leaving this server
Tue 13 Apr 2021 5:03 PM by Peppar
Geckomor wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 4:54 PM
Wow already live... Why not make a pool and ask people before?

Devs do whatever they want, not wondering anymore why people leaving this server

well yeh i loged out as soon i read it went live i wont even tests it , i already know this is not what i want,
dont want to sound ungrateful i know they working hard trying to make it a fun etc , and enjoyed phoenix allot luve it here
but if this changes stayes im out


meatslice
Tue 13 Apr 2021 5:06 PM by Midostone
And why not a reset of the server?
Tue 13 Apr 2021 5:11 PM by komgol
Whether or not this is a good idea (I don't think it's a good idea), forcing this on the entire server in all zones for a full week is a ridiculous 'test' strategy that will alienate tons of players.

A huge percent of the player base does not / will not want this. I logged in and dealt with ridiculous crap in a few fights for 15 minutes. This is clearly something I'm not interested. In fact, this kind of crap is why I quit live DAoC originally 15+ years ago. I will not be logging in again until this test is terminated.

Thomgol
Tue 13 Apr 2021 5:14 PM by lourock
These changes were un needed and will probably bleed more people off in the long run.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 5:15 PM by thomyg
And what about sumit a vote before adding this new things?

As i can say, in my player comunity on this server, they really dislike all this things from TOA, ... not really a good new for us.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 5:20 PM by jbwooten89
Definitely interested in where this goes. Someone mentioned earlier in thread that combat was getting kind of stale. Absolutely agree.

So.... Impactful, but not game changing, should be the standard. I do see a lot of things here that are going to fundamentally change how the server is played... heavy caps and restrictions should apply.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 5:21 PM by Dunga
I hope the voting is directly available and you can vote against this unnecessary and completely overpowered story and not have to live with the madness for 2 weeks! looks like a forced break...
Tue 13 Apr 2021 5:24 PM by MacesB
I always like the addition of new things, keeps it fresh.

Regardless of balancing issues, this addition brings massive changes to both solo and smallman play. It should have been communicated a week in advance.

Additionally and speaking only for myself, I think the proc should be removed, maybe added later in a reworked form.

Gems Id like to see improved upon, make way more choices and make them interesting. E.g. Cure disease/poison on use. Strong against stealthers, useless against most other stuff. Maybe slot em in the mythic item slot with a cooldown attached to switching. So people dont just carry 10 different around and use w/e is best against their particular enemy. Make it an interesting choice!
Tue 13 Apr 2021 5:25 PM by Acay
Either go full ToA or let it be as it is.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 5:25 PM by Galmish
big mistake on your part it smells like the end of the server
Toa zones yes
artifact no
Tue 13 Apr 2021 5:27 PM by Corou
What are you guys thinking about? This is by far the worst change. Dunno what else to say.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 5:31 PM by chois
well well...I just wanted a revamp of weapon styles, but there are never any half-measures always in excess, aka the up and nerf scout:p
Tue 13 Apr 2021 5:34 PM by Corou
People will have infinite power and infinite heals.......Why not remove the health and power bar completely?
Tue 13 Apr 2021 5:35 PM by Irkeno
Quite enjoying it.

Will give a bigger evaluation later on but.

1. Timer feels too short. 5min = use every fight. maybe 30min or 20min timer on the uses, otherwise every inc = dumpfest.

2. Silence is OP. especially in sin fights. Needs a nerf.

Overall though seems pretty fun.

Oh and side note nerf BDs, or ban them from the 1v1 event
Tue 13 Apr 2021 5:35 PM by raghh
Dear Phoenix staff,

Is this an late aprils fool joke? because it sure seems like it......
Tue 13 Apr 2021 5:44 PM by soremir
Hahaha Dark Age of Cheesealot
Tue 13 Apr 2021 5:49 PM by Voso
gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:55 AM
The idea is to add a couple toys, these would be items usable from your inventory like potions and hence don't require template changes.

These toys are intended to be impactful, comparable to active RAs.

There are 2 categories of toys
1) 10min duration self buffs, usually defensive procs or offensive procs. Only one of them can be active at the same time. Only usable outside of combat, like the combo buff potions. These share a 1 minute reuse that is separate from the combo potion.
2) Active / Combat usage utilities, all of them share the same 5 minute cooldown which is entirely separate from other charge cooldowns

The initial evaluation phase would make 10 charge variants available for 100g from a vendor. This phase will last about 2 - 3 weeks, near the end of it we'll decide to scrap the feature, move forward with it or let a vote decide that, all depending on player sentiment after about 2ish weeks.
Expect toy changes, additions and removals during this phase. Hoarding is inadvisable as a removal would include the removal of the already purchased items as well.

Given that many of these toys are mechanics / spells that didn't exist here previously, some bugs and/or weird interactions are to be expected initially.

The starting set of toys is listed below. Non percentage values are omitted for now as those are expected to change somewhat frequently in the first couple days.

Category 1 / Self Buffs: These do not stack, you can only have one of them active at the same time
defensive proc: apply hot on self and apply dot on enemy
caster + support only: cast stun & mez block aka cere bracer
melee classes only: defensive proc: 100% absorb mhb
melee classes only: offensive proc: increase melee damage to doors for 6 seconds
melee classes only: offensive proc: spawn gray fnf add that leeches life for the player, aka traitors dagger

Category 2 / Actives: These share the same 5 minute cooldown and do not trigger the normal charge item cooldown
spawn 3 green fnf adds, aka zoarkat
self mana / endu / health hot 10% every 5 sec for 30 sec
5s 100% damage taken reduction followed by 5s +100% damage taken
6s silence & disarm pbae
support only: pbae rezz
support only: pbae 1k range 33% heal
caster + support only: group 25% mana return
self 50% mana return

Why are we adding these items and who is asking for it? I thought we were playing a more classic based server.. I don't agree with these changes and hopefully they're removed.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 5:50 PM by Elesdee
Why.. just why?!

I mean this sounds again like a creative team trying to implement something exciting for the people., which is nice..

.. but honestly. Do you guys in staff actually think about the impact of this change on the whlole gameplay?
And do you guys still remmber, why people left the live servers, and, why theres more and more people craving for classic settings?
There might be some ppl that will welcome these changes, but i think the majority doesnt want artifacts. And thats basically what you are coming up with here.

I value your creative activity and engagement for the server, but isn't there a alot of stuff to do, lots of bugs that have to be fixed (e.g. bd-pet splitting etc.) that you could concentrate your energy on? I can't expect anything here, since this is all your free time and you dont charge anybody for it, but i think solving existing problems would serve the people more than changing the whole gameplay and rvr dynamics.

Kind regards
Tue 13 Apr 2021 5:52 PM by byron
we need necros and animits in Mid to farm money. Allow these classes in PvE And I agree about that this stuff will increase the gap of competitiveness between pugs and fixed 8men (guild/gvg). Pugs are often done with different players and classes so it will be hard to use these "potions" well if you are not coordinate with the team.
I support the GMs that re trying to bring fresh air on the server with some changes (for example I was agree to give a chance on the styles changes) but I don't like this specific one, I'm thinking too to take a break on 50rvr. As I wrore before imho it is like adding new stuff on something not completely fixed (I think there is room to balance more the realms and the classes)
Tue 13 Apr 2021 5:57 PM by Rov
Having the toa item charges on an actual item was cool, having it on a potion with 10 charges isn't.
For a solo perspective the fights will last way too long because of all the defensive procs and you'll end up getting added on.
Also as already mentioned, it makes alb hybrid super powerful having both theurgist pets and mist procs on tanks, and tanks groups in general.
I dont think this is the way things should be done to be fair, hopefully it'll be taken out again ASAP!
Tue 13 Apr 2021 6:08 PM by Runental
Good stuff, thank you !! makes the game much more enjoyable with soem more utility..
Tue 13 Apr 2021 6:08 PM by Centenario
My friends are already on edge about having the RvR Event, for quick RR5. Were about to go back to uthgard. Or get a /classic mode on phoenix.
ToA is why most people left the game in the first place (artifact powers/morphs/ML thingies on the ground/underwater fights)

Less is more, changes should be more subtle like constructing a new dungeon or expansion, its art.

I bet the GM argued and like in Uthgard, you had Abydos/Gnome who were pushing for RvR/lowcostMMO style changes, while Blue was protecting the classic style server.
I think its like this:
Classic |--Blue---Grueneschaff--------Uthred-Gnome-------Abydos-----------These Toys------| lowcostmodernMMORPG
don't know about the other GMs
Tue 13 Apr 2021 6:13 PM by ExcretusMaximus
Centenario wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 6:08 PM
Were about to go back to uthgard.

Bye.

Don't let the door hit you.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 6:18 PM by Ahashver
Dear Phoenix team,

thx for your work and the really good Phoenix DaoC experience. -------- But my opinion to the toys --------- It ´s not funny and not helpfull. Why ?

1. At the live-server u dont have the original DaoC feeling anymore:
to many things to activate, the class-difference (style-difference) is to less and newcomers have no chance to understand all that stuff
2. If u want new things in the game:
dont make it necessary to push 10 buttons beside styles and magic, hold the difference between classes and realms, 1 new abillity like rr5 for each archetype (may be with special phoenix-adjustment) is enough
3. dont forget the newbies and lows (yes I found some ...):
I.m.o it would be f.i. helpful to give purge 3 ore 5 free for all .... so the elders dont lose anything (because they get the points back) and the newbies are a bit more competitive, but that is off topic
4. In general: overcomplexity is not the way and not to balance.

Sry for my "eingerostetes" english and have fun
(first post here ....)
Tue 13 Apr 2021 6:21 PM by tiarna
its a good chance to close phoenyx and revive uthgard.. if this "toa" patch go live..

in any case doesnt expect to see more people play in these days..

i take a 15 days break.. until this change is deleted.. if not.. goodbye all.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 6:22 PM by Bokkz
Detrimental, like most of the custom balance changes.
Imo revert this change asap.
Revert the last caster unbalance.
Instead give the Mentalist castable amnesia so that Hib isn't the only realm without it.
And while we're on the topic of charges I would rather have you make the stats buff charge items useful again.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 6:34 PM by Lewk
After playing with this today it is a bad change. It is a serious case of haves and have nots, and it just throws off the established flow of fights. You said you wanted these to have a big impact on fights, well guess what, they DO, and it sucks when so much is based on RNG. Nothing like a 1v1 when suddenly there are 3+ LT pets hitting you in the back, and all you can think is "wtf is this crap?"

I am glad you were able to find the ToA assets and introduce them in the form of charges/potions, but there is a reason people wanted classic servers. We don't want these items!

Bad change. No one wanted this, and it doesn't add anything positive to the game.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 6:37 PM by Northztorm
Why don't you start making some more balance on the server instead of this nonsense? ? I think it's really good that you're coming forward with some new initiatives for the server, but still remember that this is a classic server. I thought it would be much better if you looked a second time at the different classes again, there are still some classes that are broken, and possibly looking at rr5 abilities. And even though you have said that you will not do so much more to the solo people in here, I thought anyway you should reconsider.. for it sucks so much right now, most solo's are being run over by other smallman's and groups as it is right now... You're doing a really good job, no doubt about it, but there's just the last thing missing...
Tue 13 Apr 2021 6:43 PM by Cherahim
In case these planned ! changes will be kept --> see you on Uthgard
Tue 13 Apr 2021 6:48 PM by bodol
absolutely to remove.
I will be the first to leave in case of these new ideas
Tue 13 Apr 2021 6:49 PM by OGCFTW
Welp, see you again once these toys are removed. I greatly appreciate all of the hard work the devs put in to the server, but this is not for me.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 6:56 PM by neeky
same here.. really appreciate the work, but that kills it for me.

*first post for quite some time, just because it really matters to me! <3
Tue 13 Apr 2021 7:11 PM by Eckso
Played for an hour and half with a variety of new potions and charge gems.

Not a fan here guys. Part of the reason I quit live so long ago, was they introduced too much content, and added so much utility, that the game became more about luck, rng, and how fast you can click all of your icons, and little about skill.

I dont see how this makes the game better.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 7:15 PM by Validric
Spent years on live and left because of TOA. I will be back in 2 weeks to see what the outcome is. If the changes stay It will be the end of another great season playing Classic/Custom DAOC and the end of my SB on Phoenix.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 7:16 PM by Hypno
Tue 13 Apr 2021 7:25 PM by Cymosxl
Let's make Uthgard great again
Tue 13 Apr 2021 7:28 PM by Dis
Is that a joke? Not playable at all, we played against hib fulltanker, everybody is using zoarkat / petproc weapons / our casters can do a shit against these kinds of setups.

Absolutly dump to build something like that, even valewalker with scythes running around petprocing everything. Are you guys for real and even think about some changes you are doing ???

this is a joke, no fun at all.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 7:30 PM by Morghane
Where do these changes stem from? Is this server a personal playground to do things in a sandbox you as devs/world builders enjoy or is it to empower a community of passionate DAOC players. Because if it's not the latter, your appeal diminishes daily.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 7:34 PM by Kaiawin
Horrible. Give us RR 5 abilities and fix broken classes please. Do not kill that wonderful server.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 7:39 PM by Cruella
Official classic server by broadsword inc soon.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 7:39 PM by Dunga
till this crap gets complete removed i take a break. sorry, but this stuff is realy big nonsense.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 7:40 PM by Lynee
Yeah, well, after testing this I do have to say there needs to be lots of tradeoffs or they need to be toned down, probably both.
At the moment it boils down to who uses his first, a whole zerg got annihilated because 6s disarm/silence gave them zero chance to even recover to scramble away. Bomb groups will have a field day with this, I guess? Vampiric mists have a pretty high proc rate and won't just be meleed down in one or two hits by support or casters. Purge won't work on the silence. And you can just have a wide selection of things in your backpack with no other tradeoff other than that you need to be able to afford it.
I do have to say while I appreciate the idea I want a patch to either remove them or to introduce feasible (and harsh) restrictions.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 7:55 PM by Stoertebecker
As far away from classic as the live server, and that is more fun to play atm.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:00 PM by borodino1812
Tried this out, but I am sorry, this is totally gamebreaking for me. I don't understand why you did this.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:01 PM by bculpepper
Playing as solo is already hard enough. Now I get disarmed in a 2v1 while my opponent runs off while doing a /rofl and his partner kills me? Tons o FUN!!
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:02 PM by Cymosxl
Insane changes,all broken
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:08 PM by soremir
Yeah, I just cheesed the hell out of a 2v1 I had no business winning earlier, just to see how wild it could be. Turns out, it's the leaning tower of Cheesa.

Sorry to the Zerk who was there if you see this!
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:10 PM by Serenish
Again...

WHY?¿?
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:17 PM by evert
tried it out, just stupid both 8v8 and solo. Won't be anyone around to vote in 2 weeks if it continues like this.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:18 PM by Lewk
8v8 fights... zo pet spam and vampir essences everywhere...

It is one thing to test for a day, but if you keep this in for 2 weeks you are going to do real harm to the player base.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:19 PM by Ceen
Well TheGruenesSchaf is just too good in coding to be stuck on a running server without new problems to solve, that's good and as we see bad for us =)
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:21 PM by Rov
Off to play some other game until things turn back to normal (hopefully)
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:23 PM by beliard84240
first thanks to you guys to continue enjoying us with this game. But i think you made a big mistake with this add it will kill the origines styles of this game. this afternoon unbuff a stealth tried to killed me i used silence and bim he's done !! no enjoying to easy for the stealther you gonna kill the game.maybe keep this only for PVE not for the RVR
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:26 PM by nono31
Thanks for all you do , but....what ....the ..fuck you have done ? lol !

Will make a break on phoenix waiting to patch back ( i really hope cause this server is the best i have known )

Regards
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:27 PM by Sagz
gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:55 AM
The idea is to add a couple toys, these would be items usable from your inventory like potions and hence don't require template changes.

These toys are intended to be impactful, comparable to active RAs.

There are 2 categories of toys
1) 10min duration self buffs, usually defensive procs or offensive procs. Only one of them can be active at the same time. Only usable outside of combat, like the combo buff potions. These share a 1 minute reuse that is separate from the combo potion.
2) Active / Combat usage utilities, all of them share the same 5 minute cooldown which is entirely separate from other charge cooldowns

The initial evaluation phase would make 10 charge variants available for 100g from a vendor. This phase will last about 2 - 3 weeks, near the end of it we'll decide to scrap the feature, move forward with it or let a vote decide that, all depending on player sentiment after about 2ish weeks.
Expect toy changes, additions and removals during this phase. Hoarding is inadvisable as a removal would include the removal of the already purchased items as well.

Given that many of these toys are mechanics / spells that didn't exist here previously, some bugs and/or weird interactions are to be expected initially.

The starting set of toys is listed below. Non percentage values are omitted for now as those are expected to change somewhat frequently in the first couple days.

Category 1 / Self Buffs: These do not stack, you can only have one of them active at the same time
defensive proc: apply hot on self and apply dot on enemy
caster + support only: cast stun & mez block aka cere bracer
melee classes only: defensive proc: 100% absorb mhb
melee classes only: offensive proc: increase melee damage to doors for 6 seconds
melee classes only: offensive proc: spawn gray fnf add that leeches life for the player, aka traitors dagger

Category 2 / Actives: These share the same 5 minute cooldown and do not trigger the normal charge item cooldown
spawn 3 green fnf adds, aka zoarkat
self mana / endu / health hot 10% every 5 sec for 30 sec
5s 100% damage taken reduction followed by 5s +100% damage taken
6s silence & disarm pbae
support only: pbae rezz
support only: pbae 1k range 33% heal
caster + support only: group 25% mana return
self 50% mana return

Really? So basically adding ToA stuff. Ok Ok, Personally if you are going to do that, why not add a speedwarp charge, phaseshift charge etc....

But being serious here for a second, why not just add some of the ToA abilities as RAs, ex. Speedwarp 15pts., 15 min timer Phaseshift 15 pts, 15 min timer vampiric mist 10 pts 15 min timer, Bracer of Zo 10 pts 15 min timer, That would at least be a little more tolerable. There are a few abilities that would be fun to have here, but of course it would have to be at a large cost to other RAs imho.

And if you are going to do all that bring back shears!!!!! and uninterruptible rebuffing as a counter, that was always fun to do
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:30 PM by tiarna
ranger / caster point.. is already hard to find a target without ranged interrupt or a pet.. give him an unpurgable 6 sec. silence/disarm istant from 1500 loc.. yeah.. good job.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:33 PM by nono31
Hey guys:
instant pbae disarm + silence.
seriously ?!

For the traitor dagger mists on live , you need to hit with weapon , 15dps , crappy speed . proc rate not on command . Just for exemple .
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:36 PM by Hartan
I do not need Toa Part 2!
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:37 PM by Ceen
tiarna wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:30 PM
ranger / caster point.. is already hard to find a target without ranged interrupt or a pet.. give him an unpurgable 6 sec. silence/disarm istant from 1500 loc.. yeah.. good job.
Every post those abilities are getting better and better.
Schaf made it a pbae but it mutated to 1500 range on the forums fairly quickly.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:45 PM by nono31
Ceen wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:37 PM
tiarna wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:30 PM
ranger / caster point.. is already hard to find a target without ranged interrupt or a pet.. give him an unpurgable 6 sec. silence/disarm istant from 1500 loc.. yeah.. good job.
Every post those abilities are getting better and better.
Schaf made it a pbae but it mutated to 1500 range on the forums fairly quickly.

yea you'r right , but it is shit btw
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:59 PM by Horic
Take the toys away please or make them only PvE
Tue 13 Apr 2021 9:02 PM by Uthred
Made some changes to the toys:

New toys changes:
- all proc chances have been reduced by 1/3rd except for Phoenix Flask of Vandalism
- Phoenix Flask of Life Stealing
-- the hp of the vampiric essence got reduced
- Phoenix Flask of Absorption
-- the value got reduced to 150
- Phoenix Gem of Helpers
-- the hp of the winged demons got reduced
-- only caster & support classes are now able to use the item


--> https://forum.playphoenix.online/server/news/29145-2021-04-13-tuesday
Tue 13 Apr 2021 9:04 PM by Trolldejardin
Install TOA or delete this shit toys
Tue 13 Apr 2021 9:05 PM by beliard84240
just listen your players they don't want it
Tue 13 Apr 2021 9:06 PM by lurker
I personally think there is a little bit of an overreaction in the response here.

Probably not helped by the lack of consultation and quick announcement -> implementation timeline. Seeing how large these changes are, I'm surprised this wasn't pitched in a different way...

The Concept of having a discrete set of easily obtainable, non template-impacting, abilities to give characters more utility is a great one. It would be a fantastic platform to use for balancing the game and opening up options that players would not have had before. With the right amount of care/balance it could be used to resolve the existing problems that we all know exist.

As to how abilities are currently implemented & balanced, ill have to leave to other people to work out. I think people right now are reacting to the current implementation of the abilities more than they might had the Concept been pitched. Unfairly, perhaps, since not many will have tested it all thoroughly. But then it is an immediate, unexpected, impacting, compulsory and significant change to the *meta* so of course people will be reactionary. It also comes with an extra cost. Yay.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 9:06 PM by Hattrick
Please don't do this. I already tire of fighting other stealthers that I never encounter without damage adds, damage shields or both active. I feel like I almost have to do the same to be competitive. I don't want to see any new charge items. The day I start having to farm plat every day just to pay to recharge all my "toys" from the night before is the day I find something else to do with my spare time. I hate pve farming for coin. I'm here for pvp.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 9:15 PM by Thorvi
This will Kill RvR action and also will kill every Class that has to Kite! Server already lost so many daily RvR players with later patches..... and u didnt learn anything it seems :-(
Tue 13 Apr 2021 9:16 PM by Fraq
This is unnecessary and is just going to further the tank dominant server you've already made.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 9:19 PM by Noashakra
Fraq wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 9:16 PM
This is unnecessary and is just going to further the tank dominant server you've already made.
What?
I agree it's unecessary, but tank server?
Tue 13 Apr 2021 9:59 PM by SlowMo
Hattrick wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 9:06 PM
Please don't do this. I already tire of fighting other stealthers that I never encounter without damage adds, damage shields or both active. I feel like I almost have to do the same to be competitive. I don't want to see any new charge items. The day I start having to farm plat every day just to pay to recharge all my "toys" from the night before is the day I find something else to do with my spare time. I hate pve farming for coin. I'm here for pvp.

He is 100% right, you know?
Farming gold to be competitive in rvr can´t be the way to go.

Debuffs like disarm without counter is and was just bad game design. WTF? who ever wanted a dumb pot/charges/abilites fest?
(it even disabeld you to charge a heal or pot a heal. )

So CL pots next?
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:10 PM by Darkrene
Thx for the Idea.
But why?
i vote for :NO!
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:15 PM by TheProdigy
First thanks for the good last changes. Esp the caster multi debuff allowed alot more setups which is fun in 8v8.

This time alot went wrong.
No communication before which scares away players.
This should be a classic server. With these chances that is not the fact anymore.
Not well thought out chances. This server already before was very tank heavy... this changes make any caster setup unplayable and takes away a big part of the fun. Hib tanker is totally op now.

There are now way to much abilities to use. Nobody want live servers.. thats why we are here.
Maybe make some small changes as RAs for balancing but please dont scare away the players such a big gamebreaking (destroying) change.

Hope this will be completely removed or im not sure i will continue playing.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:35 PM by gotwqqd
Unnecessary bloat
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:39 PM by spiders
Nix these changes asap
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:46 PM by Meff
nononono only one answer dont play toys play daoc
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:50 PM by Eoril
Big no for me
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:54 PM by aaron
I've never logged in to comment here before today, and I do so only to say that these are terrible changes, and you should not implement them.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:57 PM by Jingo NZ
There have been some great server additions recently (Level Playing Field, triple debuff…) but these toy abilities aren’t one of them.

We don’t need more area CC, power creep or timed i-win dumps.

If you’re looking to add more variety you should go down the path of class and archetype abilities (ie RR5s). That way you can include minor balance changes at the same time.

I’d favour low impact active abilities on a 30 or 60 sec timer. Things that add utility or address certain class frustrations (not generally adding more dmg).
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:00 PM by Nephamael
Early feedback after 1 day, from an exclusively 8v8 perspective:

[i played as hero and bard]

Category 1 / Self Buffs: These do not stack, you can only have one of them active at the same time
defensive proc: apply hot on self and apply dot on enemy

Seems like a solo proc, didn't test it yet.

caster + support only: cast stun & mez block aka cere bracer

I tested it and played against it, i am very much against adding this to the game in 2 weeks, as it renders bard and healer inst cc useless/harmful giving tanks cc immunity while not hitting enemy backliners with it.

melee classes only: defensive proc: 100% absorb mhb

Its far too strong, it already got reduced to 150 abla, i think it could be reduced to 150 abla 50% absorb, to be just another extra 15% abla chance per hit, that's already very powerful.

melee classes only: offensive proc: increase melee damage to doors for 6 seconds

seems like a nice proc for midgard, no objections, didn't test it

melee classes only: offensive proc: spawn gray fnf add that leeches life for the player, aka traitors dagger

this one will be the most difficult to balance, it was extremely oppressive early on, now the HP got reduced, but the impact of 1 proc is still a complete 100% rupt vs enemy backliners unless dealt with. - Confusion doesn't work on them, i think confusion has to instakill them like theurg pets. - Also i suggest reducing their movement speed, at least so you kite them with disease or snares ( = hunter pet sprint speed). Even if all i suggested will be done this would still be the outstanding and easily strongest tool of all the new abilities.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Category 2 / Actives: These share the same 5 minute cooldown and do not trigger the normal charge item cooldown
spawn 3 green fnf adds, aka zoarkat

Seen it a few times, should be ok after the HP changes and the restriction to support only.

self mana / endu / health hot 10% every 5 sec for 30 sec

Didn't use it yet, seems ok for 8v8. Might be a problem for 1v1.

5s 100% damage taken reduction followed by 5s +100% damage taken

Very fun idea, gives you counterplay to being focused, needs to be monitored, today i only used it once, but could have used it a few more times to save my skin. So far it seems fine, might need a duration tweak to 3s dmg immunity vs 5 or 6 sec extra dmg.

6s silence & disarm pbae

By far the most fun to use of the new abilities. I used this one a lot, so did most of my grp. - I think reducing the silence/disarm to 3 or 4s would be more fair.
It might affect zerg a lot stronger than all other content, a duration reduction or a immunity might solve this tho for zerg.
I rly hope this one stays after the 2 weeks, its super fun and can be used offensive and defensive.

support only: pbae rezz

I bought this one but didn't find an opportunity to use it with my hybrid/caster setups of today - i fought a mid tanker that used it well, didn't bring them back into the fight, but in a closer fight it might be powerful.

support only: pbae 1k range 33% heal

Another instantheal, why not, didn't use that one yet, seems ok.

caster + support only: group 25% mana return

Very nice in a prolonged fight, especially 8vx, we used it a few times, felt nice and not 2 op.

self 50% mana return

Very nice, i hope it stays after the 2 weeks.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:00 PM by Runental
No idea about the 8v8 impact, but personally i like the changes because it adds alot more survivability to many situations where you simply get outnumbered from all this coastgarding GvG fake crap... cant understand all this QQ as if the worlds end.
Glad this forum whines do not represent the whole server opinions.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:04 PM by Magesty
Why would you do this?

I'm at a loss for words.

Instead of adding RR5s.

Instead of adding variety to the game via fixing weak spec lines and classes.

It's feeling more and more like there isn't a coherent design strategy for the server. Why were charges nerfed into the ground if you are just going to add something like this? How much does this mechanic actually differ in core design outside of being significantly more impactful?

If you're concerned about inflation (the only logical reason I can see to nurture the proliferation of buff pots in the first place) there are non game breaking ways to go about creating gold sinks.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:18 PM by Astaa
Can we think about fixing existing broken aspects of the game before we start adding new ones?

You have given casters a lot of attention (its essentially dark age of castalot atm and has been for some time) stealthers already have everything they need and then some.

How about having a look at tanks? Not everyone wants to just mash 3 or 4 buttons, you just keep adding stuff that makes the game less fun for those that aren't interested in casters /stealthers.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:30 PM by msitruk
I like the idea to disrupt the meta we just need to figure how to tweak it fine !

I dont like paying 100 golds for each toy I dont like PVE I dont want to do some, for now only doing rvr is enough to get featherd and goldd to pay regular pot I m not sure it will be ok to sustain with all these toys.

Finally please consider to make toy refillable with recharger npc for same price than buy so we dont need to think about restock and rearrange inventory/macro each time.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:34 PM by Tholz
Blitze wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 12:14 PM
1. Adding toys that cost money just makes each RvR run more expensive (with no real impact as everyone has access to the same ones). In a similar way to buffpots/charges already do.

2. RvR costing more money means more time farming, less time RvRing.

3. If you die more it costs you more, as you need to rebuff more.

4. This change would make play styles that die a lot (e.g. visi solo) even more unpopular than they already are.

I think this is a really valid point. The problem with ToA items was that they were hard to get and if you weren't willing to put in the PvE time you were at a disadvantage. These are just the opposite -- since they are available to everyone for gold, it really means that everyone must have them. The playing field hasn't really changed much, play styles will adapt, and RvR just got more expensive. Not sure how this makes the game better.
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:41 PM by Hattrick
Tholz wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:34 PM
Blitze wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 12:14 PM
1. Adding toys that cost money just makes each RvR run more expensive (with no real impact as everyone has access to the same ones). In a similar way to buffpots/charges already do.

2. RvR costing more money means more time farming, less time RvRing.

3. If you die more it costs you more, as you need to rebuff more.

4. This change would make play styles that die a lot (e.g. visi solo) even more unpopular than they already are.

I think this is a really valid point. The problem with ToA items was that they were hard to get and if you weren't willing to put in the PvE time you were at a disadvantage. These are just the opposite -- since they are available to everyone for gold, it really means that everyone must have them. The playing field hasn't really changed much, play styles will adapt, and RvR just got more expensive. Not sure how this makes the game better.

It doesn't, unless you're the type of person that spends about every waking hour playing DAoC and as such, the extra gold farming isn't a big deal to you. Personally, I know when I get home from work, I'm not all, "Alright! Can't wait to get out there and start farming some gold so I can go recharge my 20 items and go rvr!"
Wed 14 Apr 2021 12:16 AM by Sathariel
Just give me ToA already - just with more bearable grind.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 12:19 AM by krisn189
Not a fan, will lose alot of players if this is implemented. On top of the every 3 week event that kills rvr... not just during event but for weeks after while everyone is farming and temping toons. Paying for these items will require even more farming... nope nope nope
Wed 14 Apr 2021 12:29 AM by Turantulasaurus
Absolutely horrible idea. If someone wants to play ToA go play some damn live. Us real DAoC Vets joined phoenix for NO ToA. ToA in a bottle does not give the excuse to take that away and add such a deepening blow to the phoenix daoc community. I disagree with the fact that you guys took time to implement these horrible changes after knowing peoples opinions, - why do people play phoenix? Not for ToA, Not for ToA in a bottle. And mid only gets 2 AoE (EGG OF YOUTH) classes, while us hib/alb get 3? Come on. Delete and reset this stuff seriously or lose many people.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 12:49 AM by Griigus
I don't know if this will be visible or not, but overall: I don't like this. I hope you don't include these invisible items with more charges and timers.

Some simple things I kind of like: increase door damage, a little power heal, one grey life tap pet - ok fine. Fun, not super impactful at first glance (though stacking the door damage one could be rough if coordinated?).

Are these things directly related to the RR5 abilities? I don't remember any of them tbh, It could be cool if you brought in RR5s and restricted them to each class, maybe balance them as needed. How about epic weapons? (Even just the skins?) I'd rather see something along those lines than inventory gadgets to mess with the RvR / PvP.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 12:55 AM by Eleven
Seems kind of evident where this will go if put to a vote.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 1:10 AM by fletcher89
Please don’t do this ! I do like some of them... but way too many at once. Consider PVE only ? But just plain no.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 1:16 AM by OGCFTW
Runental wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:00 PM
No idea about the 8v8 impact, but personally i like the changes because it adds alot more survivability to many situations where you simply get outnumbered from all this coastgarding GvG fake crap... cant understand all this QQ as if the worlds end.
Glad this forum whines do not represent the whole server opinions.

So far you're the only person posting that they enjoy it. You've posted 3 times already. Probably no need to continue your praise.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 1:22 AM by Nephamael
I forgot to mention, it would be nice if you bring the final items as draughts with 100 charges or make the initial item rechargable with 10 charges.
Also after the needed tweaks are done, you could consider a 2 min cooldown for the actives, as they will otherwise force cooldown waiting.

Also consider making the cost 1 gold per charge instead of 10 gold, to make those fun tools more easily accessible for new players.

(You can't drain the hundreds of plats long term players like me have hoarded anyway, might as well keep the game open and welcoming to new players!)
Wed 14 Apr 2021 1:43 AM by Pingyongyang
My vote is hard no, there is already enough charge crap to have and recharge and learn when to use what in different situations.

1) Make all spec lines useful for end game RvR. Mid sword axe, SM summoning, BD bone army etc. Add more utility or specialized ability to spec lines to make classes more unique.

2) Focus on creating as many incentives as possible to have big 3 way fights. This benefits everyone with the surrounding chaos.

An easy idea for this is a rotating keep area task and double the RPs earned in the area around that keep for 30 minutes every other hour and rotate the keep RP bonus. Huge RP bonus for taking that keep.

Another idea is an NPC invasion on a keep with a timer where everyone knows it will happen. Defenders get good RPs/feathers for defending. Attackers get big bonus RPs as well in that invasion area.

Many ideas like this that completely freshen the game without shifting so many core game mechanics.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 2:04 AM by necrolove1
I would love this in the form of artifacts, one per person something you have to earn. Give us more to do in PvE without making old PvE worthless
Wed 14 Apr 2021 2:24 AM by Hattrick
necrolove1 wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 2:04 AM
I would love this in the form of artifacts, one per person something you have to earn. Give us more to do in PvE without making old PvE worthless

That would just make it a game of haves and have nots. That's not better than what they have currently, it's actually worse. Keep in mind that if these items make it into the game in any form, they will become must haves to stay competitive. I remember when people first started fully unlocking artis in ToA and their relative power level just went up by leaps and bounds above people that didn't have any artifacts. At least with what they have currently implemented, anyone can get the items, it's just going to mean you have to spend more time farming coin to buy them. Both suck, but putting a barrier to entry on them sucks worse.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 2:29 AM by Voso
Lewk wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 8:18 PM
8v8 fights... zo pet spam and vampir essences everywhere...

It is one thing to test for a day, but if you keep this in for 2 weeks you are going to do real harm to the player base.

Exactly what I was thinking. Why are they testing on the population for an extended period of time... You're already running "tests" in arenas which would be better suited for this kind of outrageous idea. Minor QOL changes over time keep the population healthy when you continue to make major edits to the game more users stop playing which slowly kills the community.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 3:18 AM by bculpepper
I've been playing all night as a solo shadowblade.

The 10 minute buff abilities seem ok to me. I'm not crazy about them but each is about the same in terms of utility.
The HoT is crazy strong. It is unaffected by disease so basically its adding 60% to my health pool if I use it early.

The disarm MUST be removed from the game. I don't mean to be dramatic but its probably a game ender for me personally. One of the biggest complaints about DAOC has always been having to sit out fights. Root/Mez/Stun is annoying. Now giving a 6 second disarm to everybody on a 5 minute timer? Adding the ability to purge it is not a solution at all. It would take 30 realm points to get a 5 minute purge that I have to waste just to be stunned once i purge? I'm RR11 and should have no issue at all with open field solo casters. On 2 different encounters tonight the caster disarmed me. A cabalist disarmed and then put a chain-stunning pet on me. AOE disease - run off and then nuke me down. No counter at all to that. A RR1 Avalonian disarmed me next to the keep and just ran back in with a /rofl. It hasn't happened yet but I would imagine any hib caster could just disarm and stun nuke nuke me down. Way too many opportunities for cheese/abuse with this ability IMO.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 3:32 AM by cau83nc
While I appreciate the effort to keep players interested and add additional content/features, this whole testing process could have been handled better. The limited notification and broad (and lengthy) test does more damage than good. I didn't even realize there was a change until I had vampiric mists sucking the life from me.....very quickly.

I have a lengthy DAOC history, played a bit on Uthgard and on the initial Phoenix beta, but I didn't get my first 50 on Live Phoenix until the recent Proving grounds event. While I chose a difficult path of a primarily visible solo char, I've been slowly building out a template, gaining cash reserves and gaining realm ranks. It's hard enough to enter into RVR with most of your opponents being RR9+, but tonight I got to deal with being disarmed and leeched down via mists. It creates even more of an arms race, which is what TOA began back in the day and also what kills most MMO's. It makes the cost of entry into competitive play much higher as there are more things you MUST do or just become fodder. No one wants to have to waste tons of time farming plat just to stay alive for more than 5 seconds.

Please revert these changes. I can't help but feel disheartened after spending time getting invested in the game again, wanting to regain that feeling of nostalgia, only to feel like the rug has been pulled out from under me.

As a note, I loved the magnitude of the world of TOA and it was extremely entertaining at the time farming scrolls, pursuing encounters and getting all sorts of neat new tricks. However I was in college at the time with tons of time on my hands and when I look back I feel like that PVE "arms race" ultimately led to a reduction in RVR and a dissatisfaction with the game. I'd guess most players now don't have the luxury of a ton of time to invest. If we do implement any further additions, please communicate with your player base and test appropriately. I do not want to see this server fail as it is the last representation of what real DAOC was to me.

/ramble off
Wed 14 Apr 2021 4:11 AM by Aslimir
Hi,
Please remove new toys.
20 years of playing, I don't want this, keep SI serv up...
Wed 14 Apr 2021 4:27 AM by Irkeno
Nephamael wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:00 PM
Early feedback after 1 day, from an exclusively 8v8 perspective:

Best post by far. Interesting to see POV from 8v8.

Lots of tests 1v1 too but youre right, Disarm is pretty OP/abusable 1v1

Overall enjoying it. More tests needed for sure
Wed 14 Apr 2021 5:36 AM by Morann
Appreciate the effort to keep the server fresh.
I really like the Alternative base line nukes and triple debuff. Shaking up the meta a little and making new setups viable. Also leveling events are great fun.

But I think this change/idea is absolutely terrible.
-why not test it in arena before. you are just scaring away loyal player base with an almost unannounced test for 2!! Weeks.
-if there is a need for balance mb add some well tested (in arena) rr5 abilities
- this changes favours tank gameplay so heavily again. This server is already so tank favoured (hp changes)
- hib Tanker benefits by far most from the additional 33% 1k range instas. They already have so much heal and improved di, vr.
- this pet spawn and silence is just ridiculous

Please move the test to arena OR let us vote now and end this. Definitely gonna stop playing if that stays in.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 5:56 AM by Ceen
krisn189 wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 12:19 AM
Not a fan, will lose alot of players if this is implemented. On top of the every 3 week event that kills rvr... not just during event but for weeks after while everyone is farming and temping toons. Paying for these items will require even more farming... nope nope nope
Every 6 weeks like everyone knows.
krisn189 wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 12:19 AM
And mid only gets 2 AoE (EGG OF YOUTH) classes, while us hib/alb get 3? Come on. Delete and reset this stuff seriously or lose many people.
Does it really matter? In 8vs8 not gonna save you in zerg fight there are more than enough people with this flask probably enough for a 1:1 rezz ratio
Nephamael wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 1:22 AM
I forgot to mention, it would be nice if you bring the final items as draughts with 100 charges or make the initial item rechargable with 10 charges.
Also after the needed tweaks are done, you could consider a 2 min cooldown for the actives, as they will otherwise force cooldown waiting.

Also consider making the cost 1 gold per charge instead of 10 gold, to make those fun tools more easily accessible for new players.

(You can't drain the hundreds of plats long term players like me have hoarded anyway, might as well keep the game open and welcoming to new players!)
It's easily changed to permanent items without any recharging if that's the main complain from everyone.

Still RR5 instead of those tools would be better.
Those toys are too many buttons for the average forum warrior.
Disarm, the hot and most other effects are well balanced nothing to see here
Wed 14 Apr 2021 6:43 AM by Romeo
Hello,

Appreciate the effort to keep the server fresh, really huge thx for that and the team who work on it !
But this... sorry, in my opinion and my gameplay I totally dislike this.

I prefer events with "fun" or "boost (like event xp)" than features..

Event will regrp players to play together .. Features will just make disagreements

+1 Events
- 1 for features
Wed 14 Apr 2021 7:52 AM by byron
Tried yesterday and guys it is expensive.... yesterday in Mid there was a lot of zerg around and it was hard to survive too long, every /release a new flask charge to use. Sincerely I don't want to comment in the balancing area, for a lot of us is just too expensive but you must to use them to be at the same level of the others.
Maybe in this test period make them class specific (arsman, hero and warrior can use only disarm for example. zerk,bm and merc only flask/gem of something, etc...) and every class can use just one object (flask or gem), not both as now.

PS: I love to read some comments where they says that this server is already too "tanky" where the only tank groups are in Mid and a couple in Hib while you see sorcs, cabbies, mentas, animists, etc... in almost every group
Wed 14 Apr 2021 7:53 AM by Yap
The best way to kill your server.

Remove those toys please.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 8:01 AM by Rillifane
ToA in a bottle on a classic Server... When this stays i'm out...
In my opinion this has a too big impact on the balance - f.e. the Bowusers have no chance against the vampiric mist etc etc etc ...
You are forced to use this stuff or you have no Chance, so NO CHOICE if you like it or not...
Wed 14 Apr 2021 8:06 AM by borodino1812
I hope this will be put to a vote, like other major changes have been in the past. That will allow the playerbase to give their verdict on this change.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 8:26 AM by KotBogomot
Hello, I would like to see the opposite changes. Removing instead of adding.. I've been playing here for 2 months, nice and stable server. PvE/leveling is very fast, easy, trivial but ok. PvP ( solo, small) is imbalancing thx to various potions. My wish - removing  ALL stats buff potion Heal, special potions common 1 min timer. Same for charges - only 1 active for 1 min , 1 min rut. Buffs only for group members, + ranged. Result - more tactical battles, viable new solo/small enemy - battle duid, smith cleric, cave shaman, harder friars, wardens etc.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 8:52 AM by Succi
> Appoint Council with better understanding of game to advise on changes
> Implement massive changes without telling Council
> Forced to patch big changes on the same night as content released (nice testing)
> 19 pages of complaints on forum


nice rollout guys, definitely have your finger on the pulse of player opinion
Wed 14 Apr 2021 8:53 AM by skipari
So we tried that last evening and it was decent fun overall, but basically just one of the 8 would want to keep it. As expected it was quite chaotic, some groups blew their 5min timer load within seconds, some totally forgot. The pet proc thing was somewhat insanity, but it got during the run adjusted to proc less at least. Until then our savage was giggling all the time which was hilarious on its own.
It also seemed that most groups just put out their melee groups for this, which combined with the changes ended in nice and long fights with several moments where someone nearly died, but silence/disarm basically snoozed that alarm.
As fulltank i had some good time to be fair, as soon as our support/caster got pets on them i could easily snare off anything on them, if we screwed up and accidentally petted the enemy peeler the whole thing turn into a solid loss in most cases. So i still doubt that offtanks will run with that proc for long, because of the obvious downsides, especially since procrate and health of those got reduced, not either/or. While most people say this is a tanker buff, i actually assume the exactly opposite as soon as people get used to it and adapt their procs/charges accordingly.

As an event i somewhat liked it, mostly because of the chaotic element, as a permanent feature not that much.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 9:21 AM by lurker
KotBogomot wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 8:26 AM
Hello, I would like to see the opposite changes. Removing instead of adding.. I've been playing here for 2 months, nice and stable server. PvE/leveling is very fast, easy, trivial but ok. PvP ( solo, small) is imbalancing thx to various potions. My wish - removing  ALL stats buff potion Heal, special potions common 1 min timer. Same for charges - only 1 active for 1 min , 1 min rut. Buffs only for group members, + ranged. Result - more tactical battles, viable new solo/small enemy - battle duid, smith cleric, cave shaman, harder friars, wardens etc.

This would be worse than the current changes
Wed 14 Apr 2021 9:27 AM by Uthred
Update on the new toys:

- the category 1 / self buff toys have been removed
- the offensive category 2 / active toys have been removed
-- removed: pet spawn item
-- removed: pbae silence & disarm item
- purge can now be used while silenced

these items will stay in (for further testing):

- self mana / endu / health hot 10% every 5 sec for 30 sec
- 5s 100% damage taken reduction followed by 5s +100% damage taken
- support only: pbae rezz
- support only: pbae 1k range 33% heal
- caster + support only: group 25% mana return
- self 50% mana return
Wed 14 Apr 2021 9:35 AM by ulf
gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:55 AM
---
Edit:

The category 1 / self buff items have been removed.
The offensive category 2 / active items have been removed.

The remaining category 2 / active items are:
self mana / endu / health hot 10% every 5 sec for 30 sec
5s 100% damage taken reduction followed by 5s +100% damage taken
support only: pbae rezz
support only: pbae 1k range 33% heal
caster + support only: group 25% mana return
self 50% mana return

remove all
Wed 14 Apr 2021 9:48 AM by byron
so basically now we have just more toys for casters (another way to have more mana) and also more endurance for groups that don't run with a class that provides it (essentially alb groups). Maybe I'm wrong (and I hope to be) but I feel that this is another step for dark age of cast-a-lot
Wed 14 Apr 2021 9:50 AM by evert
So casters don’t run out of power anymore and every 1v1 fight lasts 60% longer. Who exactly was asking for these changes? Just remove them and back to the drawing board (or not).
Wed 14 Apr 2021 9:50 AM by gotwqqd
beano® products work to prevent ability bloat naturally before it occurs. The natural enzymes found in beano® work to prevent ability bloat by breaking down the complex mechanics found in many skills such as silences, disarms and multiple forms of heals making playing the game you love more enjoyable.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 10:05 AM by Morann
Like hib tanker need 4-5 more insta heals with DI/VR allready buffed. And hot's on everyone also.
Just remove the whole thing.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 10:10 AM by Hattrick
Uthred wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 9:27 AM
Update on the new toys:

- the category 1 / self buff toys have been removed
- the offensive category 2 / active toys have been removed
-- removed: pet spawn item
-- removed: pbae silence & disarm item
- purge can now be used while silenced
- mana/endu/health hot when applied to a necromancer now applies to the pet as well
- the damage taken reduction / increase ability when applied to a necromancer now applies to the pet as well

these items will stay in (for further testing):

- self mana / endu / health hot 10% every 5 sec for 30 sec
- 5s 100% damage taken reduction followed by 5s +100% damage taken
- support only: pbae rezz
- support only: pbae 1k range 33% heal
- caster + support only: group 25% mana return
- self 50% mana return

Man you guys are brazen. All this negative feedback and you soldier on anyway. Either very ballsy or very obtuse, jury is still out on that I guess.

I play a hunter, mostly solo and I'm melee spec. My life is challenging, playing what most would consider a weak class/spec but I like it that way. I'm already at a disadvantage in a lot of fights because of relatively low RR and I don't have a Heart of Legion yet. Now if I don't buy that HoT charge at the very least, I'm not going to have a chance in a solo fight. That really does not make me want to play more. Just sayin'.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 10:25 AM by tiarna
Hattrick wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 10:10 AM
Uthred wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 9:27 AM
cut

Man you guys are brazen. All this negative feedback and you soldier on anyway. Either very ballsy or very obtuse, jury is still out on that I guess.

I play a hunter, mostly solo and I'm melee spec. My life is challenging, playing what most would consider a weak class/spec but I like it that way. I'm already at a disadvantage in a lot of fights because of relatively low RR and I don't have a Heart of Legion yet. Now if I don't buy that HoT charge at the very least, I'm not going to have a chance in a solo fight. That really does not make me want to play more. Just sayin'.

from an hunter / ranger point of view.. You find a target, arrow him 1 2 or 3 times, then 5s immunity and out of range (the 5s dmg boost is useless because u cant reach it) , or click the hot charge and run out of range and refull.

there are some classes that are already more enjoyable than other.. work to make alla classes enjoyable.. and the gameplay balanced.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 10:36 AM by DJ2000
gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:55 AM
Edit:

The category 1 / self buff items have been removed.
The offensive category 2 / active items have been removed.

The remaining category 2 / active items are:
1. self mana / endu / health hot 10% every 5 sec for 30 sec
2. 5s 100% damage taken reduction followed by 5s +100% damage taken
3. support only: pbae rezz
4. support only: pbae 1k range 33% heal
5. caster + support only: group 25% mana return
6. self 50% mana return

1. 60% hp/endu/mana. Not affected by disease. Useable by every class. This does not bring variety to gameplay. In fact, it narrows it further down. This should never exceed 30% imho. I get it that there has to be some kind of competition among this timer, as to which one to use. But the competition should not be around over tuned stuff.

2. Useable by every class. So instead of the pbaoe silence/disarm, now rush in with moc-bomb and this. Why AoM? why PD? Why SB? Why EmptyMind? Why dazzAura? Is it for solo only? 8man only? bg only? Does this bring variety? Well, it actually it does, as it is a double-edged ability and shares the timer with the others. This was already reduced from 6s to 5 sec. I would rather see it further reduced to 3sec. even, to make it more situational and a boon to skillful play and usage; and not an expected fotm go-to play/usage. (1v1, 8v8 etc.)

3. Make this applicable to your own Grp only. This is obv. a BG toy, mass rezz for everyone, less decision-making, more head to the wall. Apparently it overrides PR and grants no Rps? w/e

4. the only reason that this is not as bad or worse as the others are, is the fact that it shares a timer with them. so its one or the other. At least in small scale fights, in BG vs BG it may be a different matter. I mean, this is basically a better Vehemant Reneawal in a bottle, as its pbaoe for all realm mates in range. But it does get affected by disease.

5. mana management is for scrubs.....really. this should be support only, and even further limit it to warden/sham/friar imho.

6. Useable by every class. This is basically Raging power 3 (10 min + 15 RP) on a 5 min timer. Paladin is support now apparently (aoe rezz+25% mana), so its great to have his new spells balanced by being "mana-gated", just to implement gazillion ways to replenish his mana (or Theu) in various ways (ontop of a necro). This should be caster only.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 10:39 AM by Tau
I love the fact that you're trying stuff; having that said. This feels.... pushed. What is the idea behind this?

(ps; fop/foh and buff shearing would be nice )
Wed 14 Apr 2021 10:43 AM by Astaa
Most of it binned now so we can all relax

I still have reservations on the damage add/reduction toy though, which is hugely beneficial to some classes and largely useless for others, especially in a 1v1 setting, it's a straight up mincer/skald boost.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 11:07 AM by nicolas
It is impressive that all goods things that improve game playstyle and bring fun to the game are criticize directly, how people always ask for a balance classes copy/paste from other realms sorry but it makes daoc unique and enjoyable even more weird when everyone got access without any efforts for only 10gold by charges purchase to an NPC without farming a single mob just learn to manage those ability timers, you have always someone to cry maybe 40 people one thread on forum over 2000 more daily players.

Why crying on something that everyone got access by clicking BUY on a NPC vendor, it is absolutely stupid.

suggestion : why not making all classes playable on all realms ? (irony inside).

Thanks staff for trying but with them it is lost cause as always.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 11:34 AM by Boborg
agree with the 20 comment's pages :

not for me
Wed 14 Apr 2021 11:40 AM by evert
Played some solo just now. As expected every single solo is running the HoT. If both have it up it just prolongs the fight for no particular reason (and shifts the meta a bit), if one is down it's just another i-win button. I could live with it at 30% but what is the point really, no one asked for this.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 11:41 AM by Tommylad
OMG Phoenix, you are really losing it now.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 11:49 AM by finyan
nicolas wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 11:07 AM
Why crying on something that everyone got access by clicking BUY on a NPC vendor, it is absolutely stupid.

because its not a "nice to have" it is "have it or die".
Wed 14 Apr 2021 11:53 AM by Bowspine
Everyone that I've hear in game, their response to this is either just extremely negative, or I'll leave game if they don't take it out.

That work for you?
Wed 14 Apr 2021 11:58 AM by borodino1812
Could we please just remove all of this?
Wed 14 Apr 2021 12:00 PM by Hattrick
nicolas wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 11:07 AM
It is impressive that all goods things that improve game playstyle and bring fun to the game are criticize directly,

Fun is subjective to each individual. I don't see anything fun about a bunch of charge items with unique abilities that you are forced to use because everyone else is. That doesn't introduce variety to the game, it introduces more homogenization.

you have always someone to cry maybe 40 people one thread on forum over 2000 more daily players.

If you think this is a vocal minority, you're crazy.

Why crying on something that everyone got access by clicking BUY on a NPC vendor, it is absolutely stupid.

There are many reasons. Here are a few of mine:
  • It costs money. Sure, 100g is not a lot but you won't just spend it once. The more you die, the more you buy so it's more punishing to people who have a playstyle where they die a lot (ie: soloers). I'm a relatively new arrival here on Phoenix and I don't have 2 years of plat ratholed away to make this expense trivial. I also didn't come here to pve farm.
  • Hotkey bloat. I already have almost all of my 3 main bars filled and I also have several custom hotkeys set up for stuff like weapon swaps and what not. I don't need any more crap to manage.
  • This is supposed to be a Classic server. Classic is generally considered the original game and SI expansion. This stuff they added is from ToA and not considered Classic by most.
  • Nobody asked for this. I don't read this forum every day, but I read it a couple times a week. I don't remember seeing any (recent) threads asking for anything from ToA.

You tried to paint the picture that people only oppose this because it's new, but I would flip the script on you. I think you only like it because it's new and you've grown bored with the status quo because as I said above, these items don't bring variety, they just bring more sameness because everyone will have them.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 12:46 PM by DJ2000
borodino1812 wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 11:58 AM
Could we please just remove all of this?

The idea itself is fine, but it needs to be adjusted. That is most important.
More Toys can be implemented later on, if the first ones are beneficial to the overall Gameplay, and not detrimental.

The goal should be to ask yourself which of these toys to blow your 5min timer during a fight or situation ; and not see all involved use that single toy, over and over again.

Variety of toys, forcing decisions according to the situation. That is what needs to be achieved.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 12:51 PM by aaron
aaron wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 10:54 PM
I've never logged in to comment here before today, and I do so only to say that these are terrible changes, and you should not implement them.

regarding the updated changes, same applies, terrible and should not be implemented.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 12:52 PM by Irkeno
I think with tuning a few more of these could stay/come back.

It was a wild 24h for sure, but removing most and going back to original is I'm sure not what the GM's want nor the intention.

Not saying the implementation was perfect but it was a testing period.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 1:13 PM by nAAs
Tani ask me to post this. Credit Nephamael for the original.

Nephamael wrote:
Tue 13 Apr 2021 11:00 PM
Early feedback after 1 day, from an exclusively 8v8 perspective:

Played Inf+Visi tank solo

Category 1 / Self Buffs: These do not stack, you can only have one of them active at the same time
defensive proc: apply hot on self and apply dot on enemy

Nice proc, fun addition, DOT was definitely heavily overtuned, hitting for up to 160-170 occasionally vs templated enemies, not sure if the dot was stacking, but downtuning advised, the HOT element was nice. I'm on both sides of the fence as to if that HOT should be affected by disease or not.

caster + support only: cast stun & mez block aka cere bracer

Not a caster/support, couldn't test, but did sound like it gave HEAVY utility vs instas

melee classes only: defensive proc: 100% absorb mhb

I didn't think this was that strong, since it didnt stack with Ablatives on your armour as far as i could tell. Could open up new avenues for templates, but hard to test in the 24hr period. The idea seemed fun.

melee classes only: offensive proc: increase melee damage to doors for 6 seconds

Swinging at doors doesn't excite me but I understand the utility of this for keeptakes. Small but beneficial tool.

melee classes only: offensive proc: spawn gray fnf add that leeches life for the player, aka traitors dagger

Again, a fun one, once downtuned the mists died quickly and it was beneficial to kill them which added a dynamic element to them. Perhaps like Theurg's in DS or Animists the number of them could be limited, or limited to a certain number of procs in a 1min period as I can picture this being overwhelming in some scenarios for 8v8.

Solo this was quite a good proc when 1 vs X.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Category 2 / Actives: These share the same 5 minute cooldown and do not trigger the normal charge item cooldown
spawn 3 green fnf adds, aka zoarkat

Actually enjoyed having it on tank for the first hour, appreciate it was probably OP in grp, but solo it gave tanks a way to combat disease/snare casters perma kiting. Currently there is 0 answer to a caster who snare/disease kites on a lot of classes, this offered a bit of an opportunity for counterplay, but not strictly an 'i win'

self mana / endu / health hot 10% every 5 sec for 30 sec

Makes fights last longer 1v1. Made for some mad Tank on Tank battles, but when you need to kill quick and leave, this is another bit of mud. Especially bad on a bonedancer as it increases their survivability even more. Perhaps remove from BDs for this purpose or even casters in general as they have access to their own power regen, and often lifetaps anyway.

5s 100% damage taken reduction followed by 5s +100% damage taken

Idea was fun, didn't see any reason to use it over the other actives. Can appreciate it being a very nice tool to use in 8v8 if used when being trained.

6s silence & disarm pbae

I think this has potential to be amazing with some tuning, and whilst I personally would love Assassin mezz poisons, i get that that is unlikely.
I wonder if the effect could be a targetted PBAOE (100 range) but not affect the enemy you're targetting.
This would mean 1v1 it's dud, as the only solution when 1 person uses this tool would be to counter use, just leaving you both standing there looking dumb for 6sec (not fun and just encourages adds or annoying playstyles even further)
If it didnt affect the target, you could CC/Disable additional targets for that time period giving you a good potential kill window if any adds came along, or an opportunity to escape.

The video of the assassin using this vs the Zerg was hilarious.


support only: pbae rezz

Not tested, was also unclear if it was Egg of Youth that can be used when dead, or the support needed to be alive.

support only: pbae 1k range 33% heal

Sure, not for me, but good intention

caster + support only: group 25% mana return

Good, heard lots of manapool complaints in extended fights, nice tool for the group to have access to.

self 50% mana return

Again nice, potential to make theurg's more powerful with continued spam in a group scene, i'd find it hard to believe this would be a solo tool really but nice nonetheless.

Oh and finally.

The 5min timer feels very short. It's basically guaranteed to have this used every fight, which is a shame. Imo it should feel more like a careful choice. Again two sides to that coin.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 2:22 PM by soremir
It would be nice if we had to work for them, as opposed to just buying them. It feels kind of cheap? More toys for nothing but gold farming to afford them.

Also, glad to see the most egregious ones are gone.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 2:56 PM by TheProdigy
For 8man giving hib tanker 4-5 more insta heals with DI/VR allready buffed doesn't make any sense on an already tank favorite server. Hib tanker will we way to strong. I felt quite balanced before alb or mid caster vs hib tanker, so why such a great shift.

Also the 50 % instant mana on theu seems op.

I am pretty disappointed of the council tbh. I expected more understanding of the current 8v8 balance.

Honestly just remove the whole thing .. nobody wants it.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 3:02 PM by Greenangel
I wanted destroyble walls on keeps for more tactics in realm vs realm war on keeps more variety in keep takes.

Albion has 14 classes.

Hibenina 13

Midgard 12

Give midgard Valkyrie class it's only fair thing needed and to give midgard a boost.

Only thing ever needed from Toa.

Shape change gems which effect appearance maybe for fun. From. New pve zone event.

Reduce the price of horse appearances.

Look into biggist problems why rvr and realm war is getting boreing.

Realm ability Twf static tempist maelstrom spam in every tower every fight every moment of high level RVR.

Give light tanks charge that works its only fair vs instant stun instant mezz.

None these gems solve the current realm ability spam.

This classic server is amazing but given all realms same realm ability to spam in every single fight is ZZZZZZ.

Realm abilitys should be looked at again and in realm vs Realm prospective not 8 man vs 8 man.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 3:19 PM by borodino1812
In the past the devs have done an excellent job with allowing the playerbase a vote on various changes. I hope we will see the same this time.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 3:31 PM by Sepplord
Uthred wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 9:27 AM
Update on the new toys:

- the category 1 / self buff toys have been removed
- the offensive category 2 / active toys have been removed
-- removed: pet spawn item
-- removed: pbae silence & disarm item
- purge can now be used while silenced

these items will stay in (for further testing):

- self mana / endu / health hot 10% every 5 sec for 30 sec
- 5s 100% damage taken reduction followed by 5s +100% damage taken
- support only: pbae rezz
- support only: pbae 1k range 33% heal
- caster + support only: group 25% mana return
- self 50% mana return

While i approve of removing a ton of the really crazy effects...at this point i am wondering even more about the "why"
Before i was against the stuff, but i could at least imagine that there are people who will love the crazy and new stuff. I just disagreed with those people.
Now (at least in smallscale fights) everyone gets a 60%-Hot probably every fight. What that will do to balance remains to be seen.

I know this must sound like a "whatever we do, they are still upset" scenario...but that's really not my intention.
But i am really much more confused about the vision of this change now, than before (but i think this version will still be far better than the initial proposal....it just makes less sense to me)
Wed 14 Apr 2021 3:38 PM by Sepplord
nicolas wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 11:07 AM
Why crying on something that everyone got access by clicking BUY on a NPC vendor, it is absolutely stupid.
So you think ANYTHING is good for a game, no matter how far out or OP if just everyone has easy acces to it?
Because thats what you are saying with that argument.
Your actual reasoning might be different, but that argument is really short sighted and not thought through at all.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 3:58 PM by mattymc
This is what happens when there is a loss of focus --- is this an RvR game or not -- most recent actions make me wonder.
Throw tons of crap at the player base and they will stay focused on other things while the core game, much like it ahs on live, crumbles. While I appreciate the responsiveness of the team, it seems they have made tons of changes to effect 8 v 8 without any MOE's, they have thrown tons of PvE enhancements, and now random dumping of OP stuff that they are adjusting based on ---- what? <Granted, it is obviously OP silliness in need of deletion , but...it adds to the WTH are we doing too the game feeling>.

Hopefully, we get back to balancing and making RvR fun --- all forms of play are better when RvR is healthy and fun -- something live NEVER got.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 4:08 PM by borodino1812
mattymc wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 3:58 PM
Hopefully, we get back to balancing and making RvR fun --- all forms of play are better when RvR is healthy and fun -- something live NEVER got.

This is very much the core of the game. While it is fashionable to deride "the zerg", the basis of this game was RvR. Realm vs Realm. This part of the game has a low skill ceiling, and it demands little in terms of time invested. It is essentially open to all. This is evidenced in what you can hear in all realms when a BG is announced: "So and so has the RvR BG, all are welcome".

I know that the BGs are looked down upon by those who have all the time in the world to play this game, but it is the lifeblood of the server. This core part of the game is what should command attention. I am concerned by the direction I feel the server has taken as of late. The key success of Phoenix has been a nod to the classic server, while adding QoL changes.

I hope the devs will hold fast to this vision, as it has delivered a free shard that is the most successful in the history of this game.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 4:17 PM by Adudich
Thank you DEVs for taking the time to add new items for us! I personally don't mind the Artis from TOA, the MLs however no way!

I feel that if adding some Artis in the mix it would be better to open the encounters for several reasons. 1. to give more content 2. more farming opportunities 3. get credit for the encounters and instead of receiving the Artifact perhaps get that effect which could be added to your ROGS. Egg of Youth added to your Gem, Cloudsong added to your cloak etc..

Who wants to spend 100 gold for 10 uses? nah not me. The problem with adding these items is that, now EVERYONE needs them to be competitive in RVR.

My two cents.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 5:23 PM by Babajaga
bculpepper wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 3:18 AM
I've been playing all night as a solo shadowblade.

I'm RR11 and should have no issue at all with open field solo casters.

A RR1 Avalonian disarmed me next to the keep and just ran back in with a /rofl.

Lol.
Respect yourself.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 6:27 PM by Atreri
bculpepper wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 3:18 AM
A RR1 Avalonian disarmed me next to the keep and just ran back in with a /rofl.

We all would absolutely understand if you took a break from the game for a while.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 6:38 PM by Hattrick
Adudich wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 4:17 PM
Thank you DEVs for taking the time to add new items for us! I personally don't mind the Artis from TOA, the MLs however no way!

I feel that if adding some Artis in the mix it would be better to open the encounters for several reasons. 1. to give more content 2. more farming opportunities 3. get credit for the encounters and instead of receiving the Artifact perhaps get that effect which could be added to your ROGS. Egg of Youth added to your Gem, Cloudsong added to your cloak etc..

Who wants to spend 100 gold for 10 uses? nah not me. The problem with adding these items is that, now EVERYONE needs them to be competitive in RVR.

My two cents.

Screw farming opportunities, I want no part of that. I'm not here for pve. If I want pve, there are other MMOs that do it better than DAoC, like...well almost all of them actually. I'm here for rvr/pvp only and I don't want to be forced to pve to do it. Wow, I just had a serious deja vu moment. I feel like I've heard exactly that same statement about this same exact game before
Wed 14 Apr 2021 7:08 PM by jonny290
Interesting experiment. I'm not sure I love it yet.

get credit for the encounters and instead of receiving the Artifact perhaps get that effect which could be added to your ROGS. Egg of Youth added to your Gem, Cloudsong added to your cloak etc..

I like this idea. I'm personally opposed to more /use-from-inventory charges that can squeeze out a win. That was one of the checks on TOA's power and I'm not sure between /switch and how /use works here that I like the idea of whoever's got more items in their bags is the victor.

Proud of the admins to be willing to experiment though, makes me feel like somebody Cares.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 10:10 PM by Runental
bculpepper wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 3:18 AM
I've been playing all night as a solo shadowblade.

The 10 minute buff abilities seem ok to me. I'm not crazy about them but each is about the same in terms of utility.
The HoT is crazy strong. It is unaffected by disease so basically its adding 60% to my health pool if I use it early.

The disarm MUST be removed from the game. I don't mean to be dramatic but its probably a game ender for me personally. One of the biggest complaints about DAOC has always been having to sit out fights. Root/Mez/Stun is annoying. Now giving a 6 second disarm to everybody on a 5 minute timer? Adding the ability to purge it is not a solution at all. It would take 30 realm points to get a 5 minute purge that I have to waste just to be stunned once i purge? I'm RR11 and should have no issue at all with open field solo casters. On 2 different encounters tonight the caster disarmed me. A cabalist disarmed and then put a chain-stunning pet on me. AOE disease - run off and then nuke me down. No counter at all to that. A RR1 Avalonian disarmed me next to the keep and just ran back in with a /rofl. It hasn't happened yet but I would imagine any hib caster could just disarm and stun nuke nuke me down. Way too many opportunities for cheese/abuse with this ability IMO.


Yeah thats why those charges are gone.. All those sneaks whined alot here in forum/disc because they cant roflpewpew every target anymore. >GJ Gratz
Wed 14 Apr 2021 11:42 PM by gotwqqd
These changes simply increase the divide between the high ranks that play often and have the time to get every “toy” available.
Leaving casual players even further behind and more likely to leave.
Wed 14 Apr 2021 11:56 PM by jonny290
Be interesting to set them up like inverse RR5 abilities. Once you're 5L0, they turn into paperweights.

It would give newer players and those of us with alt-itis a bit more power to have fun without making rr10's even more unkillable
Thu 15 Apr 2021 4:14 AM by whitewolf253
Many, if not most of us choose to play on Phoenix specifically because it focused on the time pre ToA. Many of us, myself included hated what ToA and many of the further additions to the game brought (I played live from classic to catacombs and vastly preferred classic to the rest). Please don't bring these changes to the game, the fundamental here is fun and the fights are good as that stands.
Thu 15 Apr 2021 5:10 AM by evert
Just to reiterate, I’m not against the idea in principle but the initial implementation wasn’t good (unbalanced, way overpowered, swept away any existing meta in favour of mist-spawning). But what’s now left is even worse since it’s just a random list of stuff with no seeming strategy or vision.

Now that you took out the interesting ones, the pots that are left are a mishmash that kind of implies you set out to address some specific issues (rather than offer a new dimension). Namely:

- not enough I-win timers in 1v1
- 1v1 fights too short
- casters run out of power sometimes
- hib groups need more heals

Since I strongly doubt you identified these as issues that needed addressing, please remove the rest of the abilities until you can either present a revised, coherent, overall vision, or a different approach. Thanks.
Thu 15 Apr 2021 5:45 AM by EscapeArtist
Just fought someone with the hot. It's ridiculous. You have it or loose.

You already need heal pots and legion charge cause everyone has and now those new ones too...
Thu 15 Apr 2021 5:53 AM by Lollie
So decide to play on my bard last night, bought the 50% power charge an the pbaoe Rez one as wel.
The mana one came in handy and I forget I had the Rez one until it was too late.
I don't mind the current revised gems and can't see them being an issue with the exception of the heal gems. They could make all of the gems reset the timers of legion or mana pots or something so you had to choose which one to pop in a fight rather than just spamming the lot in one fight, or increase the resuse timer to 30mins.

As for the people complaining about the cost, it's no more expensive than legion charges, and I don't see people complaining about them.
Thu 15 Apr 2021 6:23 AM by finyan
Runental wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 10:10 PM
Yeah thats why those charges are gone.. All those sneaks whined alot here in forum/disc because they cant roflpewpew every target anymore. >GJ Gratz

I am Not one of those. I have to say I did not even try this new Content because I didnt log in since their release. I simply know that I dont want to play with or against such mechanics.
No need to insult those who criticise...
Thu 15 Apr 2021 8:03 AM by Sepplord
Lollie wrote:
Thu 15 Apr 2021 5:53 AM
So decide to play on my bard last night, bought the 50% power charge an the pbaoe Rez one as wel.
The mana one came in handy and I forget I had the Rez one until it was too late.

why not just use the 60% mana/health/endu hot over the mana charge?
10% more mana, and health/endu on top
Thu 15 Apr 2021 8:21 AM by Lollie
Becuase it's instant and needed the mana in a pinch
Thu 15 Apr 2021 8:34 AM by Furrow
Regarding the HoT, it is affecting by disease like heal pots and legion charge?
Thu 15 Apr 2021 8:39 AM by Centenario
We need an indicator to know when somebody is popping the pots, maybe color them in red/green for the vulnerability pot.
red=invincibility =>stop
green=vulnerability =>go

If a person has the regen pot active color them in blue, also play a chicken or pork sound when they get hit.
Thu 15 Apr 2021 9:30 AM by Irkeno
Centenario wrote:
Thu 15 Apr 2021 8:39 AM
We need an indicator to know when somebody is popping the pots, maybe color them in red/green for the vulnerability pot.
red=invincibility =>stop
green=vulnerability =>go

If a person has the regen pot active color them in blue, also play a chicken or pork sound when they get hit.

They exist pop em in relic town to see what to look for
Thu 15 Apr 2021 10:21 AM by Irkeno
Runental wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 10:10 PM
Yeah thats why those charges are gone.. All those sneaks whined alot here in forum/disc because they cant roflpewpew every target anymore. >GJ Gratz

I guess you didnt notice how it wasn’t sneaks that dominated the 1v1 arena?



Id also bet it was the 8mans/group scene that was complaining most heavily about these changes. Lots of these items really helped sneaks.
Thu 15 Apr 2021 10:24 AM by Ceen
Irkeno wrote:
Thu 15 Apr 2021 10:21 AM
Runental wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 10:10 PM
Yeah thats why those charges are gone.. All those sneaks whined alot here in forum/disc because they cant roflpewpew every target anymore. >GJ Gratz

I guess you didnt notice how it wasn’t sneaks that dominated the 1v1 arena?

Id also bet it was the 8mans/group scene that was complaining most heavily about these changes. Lots of these items really helped sneaks.

1vs1 Arena has nothing to do with RvR out there.
Thu 15 Apr 2021 10:26 AM by Hattrick
Lollie wrote:
Thu 15 Apr 2021 5:53 AM
As for the people complaining about the cost, it's no more expensive than legion charges, and I don't see people complaining about them.

That's just it. I don't have a Heart yet, but I have 2 charged items plus CF pot and Invig pot. I'm a melee hunter and I mostly solo. I'm an underdog in most of my 1v1s and I accept that, but it means I die a lot which in turn means I 'waste' a lot of CF and Invig charges because I drop well before they expire. Still, I'm able to keep up with the costs without having to resort to pve farming to do so. Adding in another couple of pots and a proc pot (per the original items) that need recharging would probably mean I wouldn't be able to do that without going and farming gold, something I loathe doing.

My biggest problems other than the additional gold sink are these:

  • Nobody asked for this. I haven't seen any threads where people were clamoring for ToA effects in charged item form.
  • It was implemented without any prior announcement. If they had simply said, "Hey guys, we are considering blahblahblah" and allowed for prior discussion on it, it probably would have revealed how wildly unpopular it would be (of course maybe they knew that and that's why they didn't announce it beforehand.)
  • It was put into the regular game instead of a test bed like the Arena, giving those of us that want no part of it the choice of rvring at a big disadvantage, not rvring at all until this is over or wasting our money on charged crap we don't want.

I spent last night on an alt in Thidranki, but there is not enough regular activity there for me to do that every night. I'm not rvring until these items are gone, and if by some chance the server votes them to stay, I will just go find something else to do with my free time. This isn't what I signed up for and I refuse to just grin and bear it.
Thu 15 Apr 2021 11:03 AM by Noashakra
Ceen wrote:
Thu 15 Apr 2021 10:24 AM
1vs1 Arena has nothing to do with RvR out there.

Exactly, because in RVR, players expect to be competitive and kill everything in solo with RA and spec made for groups.
HoT is way too strong for 1vs1, and makes fights longer. It should be removed.
Thu 15 Apr 2021 11:05 AM by Raecyn
Wish they would have tested longer instead of listening to the people crying about change as usual.
Thu 15 Apr 2021 11:09 AM by Noashakra
Raecyn wrote:
Thu 15 Apr 2021 11:05 AM
Wish they would have tested longer instead of listening to the people crying about change as usual.

Did you see people react the same way to the triple debuff?
It's the classic strawman, "you don't want change". No people don't want game breaking changes. If they implemented an item with a chage that instant kill someone, would you say the same ? "WiSh It WaS TeStEd LoNgeR".
Being silenced 6s is not fun on top of being broken. You don't have to test it to know that.
Thu 15 Apr 2021 11:20 AM by Runental
Irkeno wrote:
Thu 15 Apr 2021 10:21 AM
Runental wrote:
Wed 14 Apr 2021 10:10 PM
Yeah thats why those charges are gone.. All those sneaks whined alot here in forum/disc because they cant roflpewpew every target anymore. >GJ Gratz

I guess you didnt notice how it wasn’t sneaks that dominated the 1v1 arena?



Id also bet it was the 8mans/group scene that was complaining most heavily about these changes. Lots of these items really helped sneaks.

Dude, this is far from representive,- i was in the arena aswell,- dont compare 1v1 arena vs real rvr.
Thu 15 Apr 2021 11:33 AM by Hattrick
Noashakra wrote:
Thu 15 Apr 2021 11:09 AM
Raecyn wrote:
Thu 15 Apr 2021 11:05 AM
Wish they would have tested longer instead of listening to the people crying about change as usual.

Did you see people react the same way to the triple debuff?
It's the classic strawman, "you don't want change". No people don't want game breaking changes. If they implemented an item with a chage that instant kill someone, would you say the same ? "WiSh It WaS TeStEd LoNgeR".
Being silenced 6s is not fun on top of being broken. You don't have to test it to know that.

100% correct. Same goes for that HoT charge. I don't even need to test it to know that a charged item that gives you (up to) 60% more effective health is a 'use or you lose' item in 1v1.
Thu 15 Apr 2021 1:03 PM by SlowMo
Hattrick wrote:
Thu 15 Apr 2021 11:33 AM
Same goes for that HoT charge. I don't even need to test it to know that a charged item that gives you (up to) 60% more effective health is a 'use or you lose' item in 1v1.


totally agree.

win or loose now prettymuch comes down to 1 click.

To be fair it is almost comparable with legion and heal pot, both combined heal around 500 hp, whcih already is heavily decisive for the outcome of a fight. Win or loose in most cases came down to who has the timer on cooldown.
Thu 15 Apr 2021 1:10 PM by Noashakra
SlowMo wrote:
Thu 15 Apr 2021 1:03 PM
Hattrick wrote:
Thu 15 Apr 2021 11:33 AM
Same goes for that HoT charge. I don't even need to test it to know that a charged item that gives you (up to) 60% more effective health is a 'use or you lose' item in 1v1.


totally agree.

win or loose now prettymuch comes down to 1 click.

To be fair it is almost comparable with legion and heal pot, both combined heal around 500 hp, whcih already is heavily decisive for the outcome of a fight. Win or loose in most cases came down to who has the timer on cooldown.

Both on 2mn timer, so it's usually up in every fight. For balance purpose, it's usually better to have a smaller effect avaible more often.
Thu 15 Apr 2021 1:49 PM by tiarna
regarding the gem of recovery.. absolutely no sense in the current status, because every class have a different gain and more benefit than other.. hidden class and tank have the major benefit in my opinion.. probably the only sense for this gem is "cast out of combat" or with a fix value for all like 150 hp tick.
Thu 15 Apr 2021 3:54 PM by Uthred
Update:

The test of the remaining items will end tomorrow after the next reboot. Until the reboot you will have the possibility to buy or sell the items. During the reboot all existing items will be deleted.

After reading all of the reactions on the forum, ingame and on Discord, I guess everyone will agree on that a voting about the new toys is not needed and therefor we wont start one. Thx everyone who helped testing and who gave reasonable feedback.
Thu 15 Apr 2021 4:14 PM by Runental
Naysayers won.
Thu 15 Apr 2021 4:28 PM by Raecyn
They always seem to do
Thu 15 Apr 2021 4:29 PM by Noashakra
Runental wrote:
Thu 15 Apr 2021 4:14 PM
Naysayers won.

Why did they remove something that pleased only 5% of the players and made a lot of fight imbalanced. I wonder...
I guess you would call people who oppose an item that would one shot other ennemies on a 5mn timer naysayers too at this point.
Thu 15 Apr 2021 4:44 PM by Runental
Noashakra wrote:
Thu 15 Apr 2021 4:29 PM
Runental wrote:
Thu 15 Apr 2021 4:14 PM
Naysayers won.
only 5%

Please provide a link to the statistics you have written, thx in advance.
Thu 15 Apr 2021 7:00 PM by seren
While I was not sad to see the potions removed, I'm bummed the support gems are going too (in fact, I was hoping for a croc ring addition to them). Even if only allowed in pve or reduced usage/or perhaps longer timers in pvp - I was hoping they'd stay, and hope they are revisited in the future.
Thu 15 Apr 2021 7:24 PM by Hattrick
Uthred wrote:
Thu 15 Apr 2021 3:54 PM
Update:

The test of the remaining items will end tomorrow after the next reboot. Until the reboot you will have the possibility to buy or sell the items. During the reboot all existing items will be deleted.

After reading all of the reactions on the forum, ingame and on Discord, I guess everyone will agree on that a voting about the new toys is not needed and therefor we wont start one. Thx everyone who helped testing and who gave reasonable feedback.

I have been one of the more vocal critics in this thread I'm guessing, but that said, I thank you for making this decision. With the obvious exception of these items, I love what you all have done with this server and appreciate your efforts to provide fun for the rest of us. /salute
Thu 15 Apr 2021 7:28 PM by ExcretusMaximus
Uthred wrote:
Thu 15 Apr 2021 3:54 PM
Update:

The test of the remaining items will end tomorrow after the next reboot. Until the reboot you will have the possibility to buy or sell the items. During the reboot all existing items will be deleted.

After reading all of the reactions on the forum, ingame and on Discord, I guess everyone will agree on that a voting about the new toys is not needed and therefor we wont start one. Thx everyone who helped testing and who gave reasonable feedback.

Why do you guys bother trying to change anything when you buckle as soon as the vocal minority starts to bitch and moan? Have a vote, like you said you might, instead of assuming the lovely players /Edited by Uthred on these forums speak for everyone.
Thu 15 Apr 2021 7:57 PM by nAAs
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Thu 15 Apr 2021 7:28 PM
Uthred wrote:
Thu 15 Apr 2021 3:54 PM
Update:

The test of the remaining items will end tomorrow after the next reboot. Until the reboot you will have the possibility to buy or sell the items. During the reboot all existing items will be deleted.

After reading all of the reactions on the forum, ingame and on Discord, I guess everyone will agree on that a voting about the new toys is not needed and therefor we wont start one. Thx everyone who helped testing and who gave reasonable feedback.

Why do you guys bother trying to change anything when you buckle as soon as the vocal minority starts to bitch and moan? Have a vote, like you said you might, instead of assuming the lovely players /Edited by Uthred on these forums speak for everyone.

I agree for a vote, or at least further testing
Thu 15 Apr 2021 8:13 PM by Noashakra
Yeah let's vote and see the "minority" win by a landslide
Thu 15 Apr 2021 10:38 PM by Frogger
I am posting from a Mid only perspective. I love my brothers and sisters in Alb and Hib I just don't play your realms.

Please keep the current items in for PVE only. The help so much in PVE raids, TG, DR DS etc. There is no impact to the other realms or to RvR if you keep them in for PVE. There should be NO impact tp the game if all 3 realms gain the same advantage in PVE only by having the new items/toys. I personally find it has made it easier to help new people learn the harder areas of PVE such as DS and harder raids. Please consider keeping them for PVE only.
Fri 16 Apr 2021 12:20 AM by lurker
I think a surprising amount of people would vote for the current setup with tweaks, the hot, mana heal, rezzes, etc.
Fri 16 Apr 2021 1:45 AM by jonny290
Frogger wrote:
Thu 15 Apr 2021 10:38 PM
I am posting from a Mid only perspective. I love my brothers and sisters in Alb and Hib I just don't play your realms.

Please keep the current items in for PVE only.

I wouldn't mind this at all to be honest
Fri 16 Apr 2021 1:53 AM by protege
I've enjoyed the changes, tbh.

I read a comment earlier where they suggested some sort of old-world PvE quest type thing to get an artifact with these abilities and I think that would be a good idea!

A couple of things:

-> Perhaps make the item /use 10,15 or 30 minutes so it isn't up every fight and it is long enough where people will be less likely to camp the timer?

-> Let the artifact be used from the bag so people do not have to redo their templates?

Disclaimer:

I like that fights aren't completely one-sided anymore. If my HoT and purge are down it allows low ranks to compete... Hell, I was killed by a rank 4 infiltrator after I had gotten perf off on him because my HoT/purge were down and his were up. I think these items are allowing the low ranks to compete with the higher ones -- good change, imo.
Fri 16 Apr 2021 4:52 AM by Fyric
I think it is a mistake at least not having the vote on this.

I personally am all for making combat more intricate and complicated, i loved what ToA brought to RvR, the grind to get all that stuff was ridicoulous however.

It'd probably not be a close vote to get rid of the items but at least with a vote we could see where we were really at, it's quite common that people that like changes aren't vocal about how awesome it is and people that dislike change are VERY vocal.
Fri 16 Apr 2021 6:35 AM by SlowMo
Let´s have a vote plz, so we can finally close this file.
Fri 16 Apr 2021 7:42 AM by byron
SlowMo wrote:
Fri 16 Apr 2021 6:35 AM
Let´s have a vote plz, so we can finally close this file.

Yes but a vote for the starting version of toys ? The second version ? Or the third ? The only good thing about the toys (first version) was that finally there was something that made life harder for caster groups thanks to the pets (the easy life of debuff+cast+cast+cast+ dead was less easy...). But it was the first thing that was removed indeed
Fri 16 Apr 2021 7:50 AM by gotwqqd
byron wrote:
Fri 16 Apr 2021 7:42 AM
SlowMo wrote:
Fri 16 Apr 2021 6:35 AM
Let´s have a vote plz, so we can finally close this file.

Yes but a vote for the starting version of toys ? The second version ? Or the third ? The only good thing about the toys (first version) was that finally there was something that made life harder for caster groups thanks to the pets (the easy life of debuff+cast+cast+cast+ dead was less easy...). But it was the first thing that was removed indeed
How about simply...
“Does anyone want ANY of the new items and/or toys?”
Fri 16 Apr 2021 8:12 AM by Noashakra
Actually, pets are much more manageable by a caster comp than a tank comp. Tanks have to come back to deal with the pets and let their target free.
Hib tanker is less affected because of the 4/5 ovates, but for a mid group, it really hard to deal with.

I think most people would not be against those kind of items but their impact needs to be diminished :
- An item with timers, not a gold sink
- Items should be low impact but still usefull and timers should be shorter (example, 2/3mn for 10/15% instant mana, the HoT should maybe be endo only and give 25% endo/mana but not heal)
Fri 16 Apr 2021 9:44 AM by DJ2000
Might as well throw my own spin into the fray.

There are 2 categories of toys
1) Cat1 20min duration self buffs, usually defensive procs or offensive procs. Only one of them can be active at the same time.
Only usable outside of combat. These share a 1 minute reuse
2) Cat2 Active / Combat usage utilities, all of them share the same 10 minute cooldown.
3) Both share their own common timer = both trigger a timer for the other, separate from all other timers.
4) all procs 15% chance

Category 1 / Self Buffs: all transfer to necro pet
Caster only:
defensive Buff: Magic CC reduction 35%
defensive Proc: increases resistance to damage type Crush 10%, 20s
defensive Proc: increases resistance to damage type Slash 10%, 20s
defensive Proc: increases resistance to damage type Pierce 10%, 20s
defensive Proc: debuff enemy +Gear +RR to his skills, 20s

Support only:
defensive Buff: Magic CC reduction 35%
defensive Proc: Stun enemy Pet, ignoring immu, 5s
defensive Proc: recharges mana 25%

Melee Only:
defensive Buff: Melee CC reduction 15%
defensive Proc: 50% MagicHB, value 200
defensive Proc: 50% MeleeHB, value 200
offensive Proc: increase casting time of enemy by 50%, 20s
offensive Proc: reduces targets resistance to damage type Crush 10%, 20s
offensive Proc: reduces targets resistance to damage type Slash 10%, 20s
offensive Proc: reduces targets resistance to damage type Pierce 10%, 20s
offensive Proc: recharges 30% Endurance

Category 2 / Actives:
Caster only:
pbae 1k range 10% heal
self 50% mana return
pbae increases enemy fatigue by 50%, 15s
Next single spell cant get interrupted, 5sec
self 60% max mana to 30% HP

Support only:
pbae rezz (15%) for Group members only
group 20% mana return (only Warden/Friar/Shaman)
self remove resurrection sickness
grp cure disease and DoT
self purge for Root only

Melee only:
spawn 3 gray fnf pets, they die after 15sec
reduces damage of enemy melee attacks by 25%, 5sec
increase group spell levels by 15 for spell resistance, 15s
pbae sends realm enemy pets running(/or killed shrooms), 15sec (does not affect class specific pets Ani main/Ench/SM/BD main/Cab/Necro)
reduces incoming damage while operating a ram by 25%, 5min

All:
self mana / endu / health HoT 10% every 5 sec for but also un-breakable/un-purgable self root, 15 sec
3s 100% damage taken reduction followed by 3s +100% damage taken
Hastener Speed chant, 10min (non-effective during fights, is not canceled by fights)
self cure Disease
10% faster load times deploying/operating a siege weapon, 5min


spent on this low-effort version barely 10min.
pretty sure can be made better with more time.
Fri 16 Apr 2021 10:21 AM by Hattrick
DJ2000 wrote:
Fri 16 Apr 2021 9:44 AM
Might as well throw my own spin into the fray.

There are 2 categories of toys
1) Cat1 20min duration self buffs, usually defensive procs or offensive procs. Only one of them can be active at the same time.
Only usable outside of combat. These share a 1 minute reuse
2) Cat2 Active / Combat usage utilities, all of them share the same 10 minute cooldown.
3) Both share their own common timer = both trigger a timer for the other, separate from all other timers.
4) all procs 15% chance

Category 1 / Self Buffs: all transfer to necro pet
Caster only:
defensive Buff: Magic CC reduction 35%
defensive Proc: increases resistance to damage type Crush 10%, 20s
defensive Proc: increases resistance to damage type Slash 10%, 20s
defensive Proc: increases resistance to damage type Pierce 10%, 20s
defensive Proc: debuff enemy +Gear +RR to his skills, 20s

Support only:
defensive Buff: Magic CC reduction 35%
defensive Proc: Stun enemy Pet, ignoring immu, 5s
defensive Proc: recharges mana 25%

Melee Only:
defensive Buff: Melee CC reduction 15%
defensive Proc: 50% MagicHB, value 200
defensive Proc: 50% MeleeHB, value 200
offensive Proc: increase casting time of enemy by 50%, 20s
offensive Proc: reduces targets resistance to damage type Crush 10%, 20s
offensive Proc: reduces targets resistance to damage type Slash 10%, 20s
offensive Proc: reduces targets resistance to damage type Pierce 10%, 20s
offensive Proc: recharges 30% Endurance

Category 2 / Actives:
Caster only:
pbae 1k range 10% heal
self 50% mana return
pbae increases enemy fatigue by 50%, 15s
Next single spell cant get interrupted, 5sec
self 60% max mana to 30% HP

Support only:
pbae rezz (15%) for Group members only
group 20% mana return (only Warden/Friar/Shaman)
self remove resurrection sickness
grp cure disease and DoT
self purge for Root only

Melee only:
spawn 3 gray fnf pets, they die after 15sec
reduces damage of enemy melee attacks by 25%, 5sec
increase group spell levels by 15 for spell resistance, 15s
pbae sends realm enemy pets running(/or killed shrooms), 15sec (does not affect class specific pets Ani main/Ench/SM/BD main/Cab/Necro)
reduces incoming damage while operating a ram by 25%, 5min

All:
self mana / endu / health HoT 10% every 5 sec for 15 sec
3s 100% damage taken reduction followed by 3s +100% damage taken
Hastener Speed chant, 10min (non-effective during fights, is not canceled by fights)
self cure Disease
10% faster load times deploying/operating a siege weapon, 5min


spent on this low-effort version barely 10min.
pretty sure can be made better with more time.

There's still some stuff here I would be against. I'm against any HoT or any additional ways for non-healers to heal in combat for instance, but most of this stuff is far less game changing than what we were handed. Good job, although I still don't want the additional gold sink that would come with these. I see a lot of things here that would be useful but not 100% must haves.

I'd still prefer that the effort spent on this be spent on making something class specific like rr5 abilities to improve class balance.
Fri 16 Apr 2021 10:58 AM by Noashakra
Too many broken effects in your list tbh
25% damage reduction as an example is completly OP in 1vs1.

Purge is kid of different, you can bait a purge with a numb, ratfang, a mez with the skald to allow for the parry stun, etc.
This kind of effect is more like "I have it, I use it, you don't? I win" and there is no counterplay.
Fri 16 Apr 2021 11:19 AM by DJ2000
Noashakra wrote:
Fri 16 Apr 2021 10:58 AM
Too many broken effects in your list tbh
25% damage reduction as an example is completly OP in 1vs1.
Might be.
It lasts for 5sec, which means ~3 hit (+offhand) and has a 10 min timer, which also means no Hot, Hastener, cure, rupt pets etc. for the next 10 min.
Feel free to adjust.

Hattrick wrote:
Fri 16 Apr 2021 10:21 AM
1. There's still some stuff here I would be against. I'm against any HoT or any additional ways for non-healers to heal in combat for instance, ...
2. ...although I still don't want the additional gold sink that would come with these.
3. I'd still prefer that the effort spent on this be spent on making something class specific like rr5 abilities to improve class balance.
1.
might be true, some of it is there to contest for the 10 min timer, to make the decision harder as to what to blow the timer for.

2.
I am sure they just wanted to test the effects as such. The fact that it was avail. per gold was to make it accessible to everyone from the get-go.
I doubt that they really wanted to implement them the same way as they tried to test them.

3.
you can tell they are trying to get the best angle as to how to implement stuff. (choosable RR5 <-> choosable pot effects) Or in other words: This was a RR5 undercover test.
We'll have to wait and see.
Fri 16 Apr 2021 12:03 PM by Hattrick
DJ2000 wrote:
Fri 16 Apr 2021 11:19 AM
1. might be true, some of it is there to contest for the 10 min timer, to make the decision harder as to what to blow the timer for.

If you look at it from a solo (or even small man) point of view, the HoT, even at reduced duration is still a no-brainer. 30% more effective health > anything else on that list. It rivals IP2 which costs 10 realm points. Sure it's not instant, but you know that going in and just pop it at the beginning of the fight. Thus it becomes the must use charge out of all of these. Any fight you don't have it up and the opponent does, you can probably chalk up as a loss and that is not good game design.

There's a reason why giving classes without heals the ability to heal themselves is a bad thing. Those classes were originally balanced with the idea in mind that they couldn't heal themselves. That's why classes that can heal (not lifetap) do insignificant damage for the most part, because if they could do great damage as well as heal well (looking at you OG smite cleric), it would be OP. So when you keep piling on healing abilities to classes that don't have them innately, you make them OP too. There is a reason assassins don't have IP in their realm abilities and this charge basically gives it to them. Making it available to everyone doesn't help, it just makes its use mandatory unless you like to lose.
Fri 16 Apr 2021 12:07 PM by Noashakra
that's why minimal effects you can use more often are more balanced
Fri 16 Apr 2021 12:16 PM by DJ2000
Effects that can be used more often (low cooldown) will result in a dump fest every fight/inc. the time they are up again.
Not a fan of that.
I like/prefer decision-making and choosing what to use and when to use, not head banging the keyboard.
Obviously i can only speak for myself.

@Hattrick
i know.
On the other hand, everything can be balanced. Here is an example:
Hot has a un-breakable/un-purgable selfroot for the entire duration 15sec.
Do you feel an ability is to strong? Turn it into a double-edged sword.
Everything can be adjusted. which is why you dont put simply a couple of minutes (like i did) into these game changing stuff.
So why did they test the HoT the way it was? Because the RR5 Shaman, this was based on, work like this.
Back then when they first announced their planned introduction of the choosable RR5, they didnt have a chance to test the stuff; and the impact it could have.
Fri 16 Apr 2021 12:58 PM by Noashakra
So you mean a HoT 30% in 1vs1 is not head banging the keyboard?
You would use that in a no brain way as soon as it's up at the start of a fight.

Yes up and down are nice, I kind of liked the 100% dmg abs followed by a 100% damage bonus (one of the only use that felt balanced). It was interesting for group fights. Maybe 5s was too long though.

HoT on a shaman is not broken, it's not a tank, not a high DPS class. Low impact for solo and low impact for groups (a HoT is not going to save you from an assist, but the endo/mana is nice for a caster).
Fri 16 Apr 2021 1:11 PM by DJ2000
Noashakra wrote:
Fri 16 Apr 2021 12:58 PM
So you mean a HoT 30% in 1vs1 is not head banging the keyboard?
You would use that in a no brain way as soon as it's up at the start of a fight.

Yes up and down are nice, I kind of liked the 100% dmg abs followed by a 100% damage bonus. It was interesting for group fights. Maybe 5s was too long though.
Typical noashakra.
Tell me when did i say this?
Your argument was:
"that's why minimal effects you can use more often are more balanced"
which i responded with:
"Effects that can be used more often (low cooldown) will result in a dump fest every fight/inc"

1. 10min cd reuse timer is not ready every fight
2. putting in "too positive" effects 30%/60% HoT into the game, that every class can use without a drawback, is not a meaningful decision. Its braindead. I said this right from the start (look 2nd post).
Why did they put it in anyway? Because the RR5 sham originally was like this, and they wanted to test it like that. If more classes have acces to it, the more data they can collect to get a clear picture.
For what reasons they wanted to test something so obvious so vehemently, i can only guess.
3. Abilities like the one you mentioned are also stuff that i like a lot. If you want to balance the Hot, put some drawback on it. Because changing the values only reduces effectivity, but not the problem.
Fri 16 Apr 2021 1:19 PM by Irkeno
Honestly, agree with what Beaver said. It was nice to potentially “level the playing field” a bit. Rr4 fighting RR11 and having a chance

This gave some variety and potential. But make it a longer timer so its a real ‘choice’ to use it.

I had plenty of fights where my opponent popped it and I didnt need to use it myself, because I’m intentionally managing my timers for when I REALLY need them so it wasnt an absolute must, which was also good. Sure maybe tune down a bit further, so its a smaller HOT over time for example.

This also gave nice options in 1vX situations, giving you a shred of hope. Currently most adds just = instant death and release. And with the insane red is dead mentality on the server it’s pretty much a given to get adds.

Big caveat, the first implementation of this was MENTAL in terms of the power of some combos. I just chose to go along and enjoy the ride a bit and have fun. It’s a game after all, even if it was nuts for 2 days just try n make the best of it 🤷‍♂️

That said with some tuning they could add a more fun and dynamic element to the game. ToA abilites overall were put in to provide more tools and toys to utilise and counterplay. Without them the game does become quite forumlaic after a while.

Bit OTT implementation, super fast tuning, good listening from gms. Shame the toxicity of the pop didnt let the gms have the 2 weeks to test and fine tune things. Appreciate the effort @gruenes/@uthred
Fri 16 Apr 2021 3:02 PM by Tenny
Why fix what isn't broken? This is the kind of change that will chase me from the server. These charges will be necessary to win. I already live "paycheck-to-paycheck" paying for my buff pots and HOL charges. Only way for me to compete in this new system is...PVE. Feels like the beginnings of TOA all over again.

Also, we don't need anything to prolong fights on this server. Prolonged fights mean more adds, more frustration, more like live.

PLEASE reconsider this change. Or - if you want artifacts just add artifacts that require a one-time acquisition. Don't make us PVE to survive charge debt
Fri 16 Apr 2021 4:59 PM by Bry
I liked the power toys. The interupt/pet toys were obnoxious.
Fri 16 Apr 2021 4:59 PM by Noashakra
DJ2000 wrote:
Fri 16 Apr 2021 1:11 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Fri 16 Apr 2021 12:58 PM
So you mean a HoT 30% in 1vs1 is not head banging the keyboard?
You would use that in a no brain way as soon as it's up at the start of a fight.

Yes up and down are nice, I kind of liked the 100% dmg abs followed by a 100% damage bonus. It was interesting for group fights. Maybe 5s was too long though.
Typical noashakra.
Tell me when did i say this?

"I like/prefer decision-making and choosing what to use and when to use, not head banging the keyboard."

My rethorical question in other words was > Do you really think having a HoT on a 10/15mn timer is not head banging? > the implied answer was YES it's a no brain choice.

Because if it's up in 1vs1, there is NO decision making, you will head bang the keyboard and use the effect... A HoT make sense if you can use the whole effect, so you dump it on inc, no decision making here. And it will just usually decide who will win or not in one click because the effect is too strong = bad mechanic.

People will just camp the relic town and wait for the timers to be up, great! Some people already do that for purge, SOS and IP. Now they will wait for the HoT too. Really great idea.
Fri 16 Apr 2021 5:32 PM by Hattrick
DJ2000 wrote:
Fri 16 Apr 2021 12:16 PM
@Hattrick
i know.
On the other hand, everything can be balanced. Here is an example:
Hot has a un-breakable/un-purgable selfroot for the entire duration 15sec.
Do you feel an ability is to strong? Turn it into a double-edged sword.

I will stop short of saying I'm all for that, but I will agree that having a downside to using them is something I would be in favor of. In fact, I thought of an easy one last night: make the gems unusable from inventory and don't put stats on them. You can have the effect and lose the stat utility of your gem slot or you can choose to keep the gem utility and forego the effects. Seems simple enough to me. The only reason I didn't post it already is because when I really thought about it, I figured there would be no way people would agree to even that small downside and I doubt even more they would agree to one such as the unbreakable root you suggest (that is good though, I must say.)

Everything can be adjusted. which is why you dont put simply a couple of minutes (like i did) into these game changing stuff.
So why did they test the HoT the way it was? Because the RR5 Shaman, this was based on, work like this.
Back then when they first announced their planned introduction of the choosable RR5, they didnt have a chance to test the stuff; and the impact it could have.

I think if they had announced the plans to do this before actually doing it, they would have gotten a far better reception. I think there still would have been plenty of sceptics, but it would not have been as bad. People simply don't like unannounced drastic changes and will generally react negatively to such things.
Fri 16 Apr 2021 6:41 PM by DJ2000
Noashakra wrote:
Fri 16 Apr 2021 4:59 PM
My rethorical question in other words was > Do you really think having a HoT on a 10/15mn timer is not head banging? > the implied answer was YES it's a no brain choice.

Because if it's up in 1vs1, there is NO decision making, you will head bang the keyboard and use the effect... A HoT make sense if you can use the whole effect, so you dump it on inc, no decision making here. And it will just usually decide who will win or not in one click because the effect is too strong = bad mechanic.

People will just camp the relic town and wait for the timers to be up, great! Some people already do that for purge, SOS and IP. Now they will wait for the HoT too. Really great idea.
I will not repeat myself.
Unless you edit your posts its clear to see what you did and what not. same for mine.
Fri 16 Apr 2021 6:53 PM by Magesty
Irkeno wrote:
Fri 16 Apr 2021 1:19 PM
This also gave nice options in 1vX situations, giving you a shred of hope. Currently most adds just = instant death and release. And with the insane red is dead mentality on the server it’s pretty much a given to get adds.

I don't really understand this type of argument for the introduction of overbearing mechanics that are accessible to all players with only a gold investment. At least with a comeback mechanic like IP the "red is dead" adding players might not have invested in it. Instead choosing to spend their points on more group-oriented abilities. There is a trade-off in investment that actually gives the solo visible player a chance at having a leg up.

In the case of the toy abilities everyone except for the newest/poorest players will have them and it is just a dice roll if one or more of the X in your 1vX have them up.

I'm not surprised to see some assassins in this thread arguing that this was a positive change. Easy to say when they shore up one of the classes' balance checks (lack of timered RAs that affect combat) and you can wait out timers safely in stealth while only picking fights with low RR characters/easier matchups in the meantime. I assume they'd much rather have these added than those boring assassin RR5s...

As a visible solo player the implementation of something like these toys is laughably clumsy from a gameplay perspective. Timered RAs are already problematic enough when considering balance due to their extreme power level, but by adding something like this on top of those abilities players are just pushed further into an environment where the outcome of a fight is highly dependent on which CDs are available.

Say I were to hop off a boat and get into a great 1v1 fight against an equally matched opponent. We both burn our respective RAs and toys. It's a fun fight. We get the most out of our extra health bars and I'm lucky enough to come out with the win (clearly a fiction at this point, but bear with me). Now I'm stuck without any of my timered abilities up. There is already a potential gap between me and future opponents without RAs up, but now every player, including classes that shouldn't, have additional extremely powerful timered abilities they can dump. This makes the difference between having timers up and not having timers up far more significant than it already is, and I'd argue that it puts the game past a tipping point where this is tolerable. The experience from that point on becomes a matter of either hiding and waiting for CDs or accepting that you are going to get attacked by someone that has a plethora of absurdly powerful CDs to the point where you have no chance of winning even if you can get them to do something dumb like purging numb.

Seeing the implementation of something like this, even though it was quickly withdrawn, is an extremely concerning sign. It feels more and more like those driving the Phoenix bus are invested largely in an 8v8 or assassin playstyle. We seem to frequently make stops that disproportionately benefit those playstyles.

There is a lot of existing design space to be filled if the goal is to add mechanics. RR5 abilities are a great place to start, and as each class gets a unique ability, there are a number of separate levers that can be manipulated to better control class balance. It is much harder to balance powerful CDs over an entire archetype as each class within the archetype has different strengths, weaknesses, playstyles, and needs. Some of the RR5s would obviously need rebalancing before implementation to avoid a disaster similar to what we've seen with these toys, but the power level on the whole for RR5s is much more manageable and situational even taken as is. Plus, they are largely thematically appropriate. How cool is that?

We also have a number of spec lines that are simply useless. Wouldn't it be nice to see Smite Clerics and Nature Druids able to solo/small man in a meaningful fashion? Why did Paladins receive abilities that only scale with additional members in their group when they were and continue to be useless at solo and small manning? The Friar's staff line is positively throbbing in anticipation of a rework of the higher level styles to introduce meaningful spec variety to the class. We have three classes waiting in the wings (valk, bainshee, heretic) that could easily be made to fit into Phoenix's ecosystem.

At this point I'm just post-vaccine-sickness rambling, but to sum it up: adding additional extremely powerful CDs that are broadly accessible creates an environment in which the outcome of a fight is even more contingent on who has or does not have their abilities up than it already is. I'd argue that this constitutes a step in the wrong direction from both a gameplay and balance perspective.
Fri 16 Apr 2021 8:09 PM by Irkeno
Just fyi I was speaking from a solo visi perspective. I think these abilites generally made asassins weaker too as it gave visis additional outlast capabilites which is one of the key ways to beat an assassin.

It also gave more variety to timer management. Sure dumping everything in a fight leaves you vulnerable but thats nothing new. It always stuns me seeing people dumping 100% of their abilities in a single fight or even people using timered abilities in landslide situations with no foresight.


Re the part you quoted me on I meant that in the same way toa provided that capability. Giving a little bit more of a chance sometimes in an unlikely situation. Def not something to balance around (1v1 or 1vX) but does add a bit of fun. I enjoyed the short time we had with the abilities. Hopefully a test environment or some other solution comes back in the future.
Fri 16 Apr 2021 9:05 PM by Magesty
Irkeno wrote:
Fri 16 Apr 2021 8:09 PM
Just fyi I was speaking from a solo visi perspective. I think these abilites generally made asassins weaker too as it gave visis additional outlast capabilites which is one of the key ways to beat an assassin.

In a direct matchup where both characters have the toy up I'd be inclined to agree that fighters receive a small edge (noting, of course, that the heal over time % is going to be comparably stronger for the class that isn't con debuffed). However, the argument is a little more complicated than that for two reasons. Firstly, assassins can easily sit and wait on a timer while choosing to pursue weaker targets. Secondly, something like this is a clear replacement for RR5 abilities which would see the assassins receiving something appropriately less powerful when compared to many of the visible solo class options. This fact in particular is one of many reasons I'm inclined to believe there is a preference for assassin gameplay among those making decisions.

Irkeno wrote:
Fri 16 Apr 2021 8:09 PM
It also gave more variety to timer management. Sure dumping everything in a fight leaves you vulnerable but thats nothing new. It always stuns me seeing people dumping 100% of their abilities in a single fight or even people using timered abilities in landslide situations with no foresight.

This is nonsense. In an even fight you will either burn your abilities when you need to or you will die. The entire point of what I'm saying is that when you are left "vulnerable" it is significantly worse than it would be with just normal RAs.

Irkeno wrote:
Fri 16 Apr 2021 8:09 PM
Re the part you quoted me on I meant that in the same way toa provided that capability. Giving a little bit more of a chance sometimes in an unlikely situation. Def not something to balance around (1v1 or 1vX) but does add a bit of fun. I enjoyed the short time we had with the abilities. Hopefully a test environment or some other solution comes back in the future.

I hope I didn't make you feel like my entire post was directed at your comments-- it was just a jumping off point for my rambling.

My argument is that the belief that you have a little more of a chance is just an illusion as each one of the X players also has the exact same abilities. For each fight where the outcome is a heroic victory against the odds thanks to an OP CD you'll have at least a few dozen more where your initial target just pops that exact same CD and you take a dirt nap. Now, if we are talking about RR5s the story is different as some of those are AoE and scale well against multiple opponents in a 1vX situation, (Reaver and Friar for example) and the classes that would likely make up the X (assassins, archers) weren't given RR5 abilities that would increase their ability to zerg down solo opponents. It's almost like Mythic had some grasp on the appropriate way to design powerful abilities within the context of RvR, which is pretty surprising given the general incompetence and apathy they showed in that department previously with ToA, and in the following years with their class design in general.
Fri 16 Apr 2021 9:17 PM by Jingo NZ
Credit to the devs for trying something and responding to feedback.

If we are looking for new toys, philosophically I'd be more in favour of less powerful 30s to 60s timer abilities. And for these to be implemented as class or archetype specific.

Examples
Friar/Warden/Shaman
Next healing spell is insta cast

Healer/Druid/Cleric
Next spell can be cast on the move

Hunter/Scout/Ranger
Next melee hit reduces target dmg for 5 sec.

Warrior/Arms/Hero
You parry the next hit or DD spell

Merc/Berserk/Savage/BM
Super fast sprint for 4 sec

Wiz/RM/Eld (ment/sorc/BD/necro?)
Next 2 casts are 50% cast time

SM/Cab/Ench (ment/sorc/BD/necro?)
Next 2 single target casts get bolt range

Animist/Theur
Next fnf pet gets extra duration and hp

Thane/VW/Reaver/Champ
Next hit is a critical hit

Skald/Minstrel/Bard
Next battle shout is aoe

SB/Inf/NS
Next 4 sec melee hits do 50% dmg but have 100% lifesteal
Fri 16 Apr 2021 10:08 PM by Skegg
Wow I like these ideas Jingo.

But I don't understand the urge to introduce new stuff. The game as it is right now is the right amount of complexity, we have normal skills, realm abilities, potions, charges and even procs of all sorts, and with all that you can be original and have a varied gameplay.
Adding "toys" that will just be another thing we have to have is not fun.
And even the things that Jingo proposes in the last post seem to be stuff that will become mandatory to be competitive.

If you want a gold sink, just make cosmetic stuff that we have to pay in gold. Make dyes expensive, add more weapon models or whatever... clothing, housing decoration..
No impact on gameplay and your excess gold will go away
Sat 17 Apr 2021 8:00 AM by gotwqqd
If I start paying you...would you stop this nonsense?
Quickly moving from a “simple” game to a game weighted down by skill bloat and excessive /use. Soon, I’ll again have no game to play.
Sat 17 Apr 2021 10:59 AM by Boborg
Is a vote still planed for, at least, the first category toys?

Best
Sun 18 Apr 2021 7:48 PM by rogueyak
Also respectfully chiming in to say I feel these changes go against the old school feel of the server. Speed buttons and out of combat disease cure pots or something smaller would be a better start I think....
Mon 19 Apr 2021 4:35 AM by jonny290
I'd like to see some sort of buff pot that gives just a _little_ more than combined forces, but only works if you are solo. Group up and it drops, either to combined forces levels or altogether.
Mon 19 Apr 2021 10:50 AM by Sepplord
maybe it was all a conspiracy to do a one time gold drain, and removing it after a ton of people had bought the items. Joke theory that came up in discrod on the weekend, but imo it would explain the course of actions much better.

The alternative joke theory is that there is some genius coder in the team but he has really whack ideas. And every few months they go "sigh, okay MrWhackideas, we'll try it out to shut you up. Maybe this time you are right and the people will love it"
Mon 19 Apr 2021 11:23 AM by DJ2000
Sepplord wrote:
Mon 19 Apr 2021 10:50 AM
maybe it was all a conspiracy to do a one time gold drain, and removing it after a ton of people had bought the items. Joke theory that came up in discrod on the weekend, but imo it would explain the course of actions much better.

The alternative joke theory is that there is some genius coder in the team but he has really whack ideas. And every few months they go "sigh, okay MrWhackideas, we'll try it out to shut you up. Maybe this time you are right and the people will love it"

Again.
This was a RR5 undercover test...even though they also threw some ToA into the mix.
Back then, when they first announced their planned introduction of the "choosable" RR5, they didn't have a chance to test the stuff; and the impact it could have.
This was no new "gold sink", it was available by gold for 1 simple reason: To make it accessible for everyone to test these abilities.
They were announced to be short-term.
They were announced to be taken away after the test period.
This is how they wanted to test them, not the way they wanted to implement them.
Mon 19 Apr 2021 12:10 PM by Uthred
DJ2000 wrote:
Mon 19 Apr 2021 11:23 AM
Again.
This was a RR5 undercover test...even though they also threw some ToA into the mix.
Back then, when they first announced their planned introduction of the "choosable" RR5, they didn't have a chance to test the stuff; and the impact it could have.
100% wrong
DJ2000 wrote:
Mon 19 Apr 2021 11:23 AM
This was no new "gold sink", it was available by gold for 1 simple reason: To make it accessible for everyone to test these abilities.
They were announced to be short-term.
They were announced to be taken away after the test period.
This is how they wanted to test them, not the way they wanted to implement them.
100% correct
Tue 20 Apr 2021 7:16 AM by Sepplord
I don't know how to make a joke more obvious, after literally calling it a "joke theory" multiple times
Tue 20 Apr 2021 7:50 AM by Astaa
Uthred wrote:
Mon 19 Apr 2021 12:10 PM
DJ2000 wrote:
Mon 19 Apr 2021 11:23 AM
Again.
This was a RR5 undercover test...even though they also threw some ToA into the mix.
Back then, when they first announced their planned introduction of the "choosable" RR5, they didn't have a chance to test the stuff; and the impact it could have.
100% wrong
DJ2000 wrote:
Mon 19 Apr 2021 11:23 AM
This was no new "gold sink", it was available by gold for 1 simple reason: To make it accessible for everyone to test these abilities.
They were announced to be short-term.
They were announced to be taken away after the test period.
This is how they wanted to test them, not the way they wanted to implement them.
100% correct

Would a better gold sink not just be to allow reskins and effects with gold? Perhaps even introduce some new skins/effects. Killing two birds with one stone, lowering the gold value of BPs and taking money out of the economy in a way that doesn't hurt those with little gold.

Gold sinks shouldn't have a negative effect on those that don't have the gold in the first place.

Edit, sorry, miss read the post a little. Point still stands though if you're looking for a gold sink
Tue 20 Apr 2021 8:21 AM by finyan
gotwqqd wrote:
Sat 17 Apr 2021 8:00 AM
Quickly moving from a “simple” game to a game weighted down by skill bloat and excessive /use. Soon, I’ll again have no game to play.

Good Point.
Adding Figures , new Squares to the chess field doesn´t make chess more Interesting but a complete different Game.
Tue 20 Apr 2021 8:55 AM by Irkeno
But making the game more like chess, and less like draughts by adding more options and variety to moves/strategies/playstyles doesnt have to be a bad thing.

Are we really moaning about making a game slightly more complex/interesting?
Tue 20 Apr 2021 8:57 AM by Astaa
That is not the end result though. The end result though, it doesn't take people long to figure out the best set up and that is the one they stick with. Boost something too much, people play it near exclusively and not other classes.
Tue 20 Apr 2021 9:57 AM by gotwqqd
Irkeno wrote:
Tue 20 Apr 2021 8:55 AM
But making the game more like chess, and less like draughts by adding more options and variety to moves/strategies/playstyles doesnt have to be a bad thing.

Are we really moaning about making a game slightly more complex/interesting?
So how about 5 more ways to heal for everyone?
Tue 20 Apr 2021 11:12 AM by Irkeno
gotwqqd wrote:
Tue 20 Apr 2021 9:57 AM
Irkeno wrote:
Tue 20 Apr 2021 8:55 AM
But making the game more like chess, and less like draughts by adding more options and variety to moves/strategies/playstyles doesnt have to be a bad thing.

Are we really moaning about making a game slightly more complex/interesting?
So how about 5 more ways to heal for everyone?

Straw man to the extreme. I said slightly. Now bolded.

Let me be clear, I do agree the initial gems felt over tuned and needed pairing back.

I felt that given more time the gms could have found a balanced implementation for them

I felt bad for the gms that the hysteria was so bad that they had to remove them rather than allowing the time to test and adjust. They were reacting so quickly each day that it would have levelled out eventually. I had quite a lot of fun during the 2 days of chaos. Now it just feels like its back to the same hum drum.

My POV now is that I hope they could come back in a test environment/event to see what can be made to work.
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