Balance Changes #4

Started 31 Jan 2021
by gruenesschaf
in Planned Changes
General:
- player can now only be affected by 1 static tempest at the same time (same as was already done for TWF ages ago)
- aom will end at 20% again at level 9
- hib mana baseline nuke cost reduced to suppression baseline nuke levels
- alb matter baseline nuke cost reduced to suppression baseline nuke levels
- Casted resist debuff values have been changed:
-- the blue debuffs return to 15%
-- the yellow debuffs return to 30%
-- red debuffs become realm specific:
--- albion: heat, matter, cold, spirit, energy -> 50%, body: 40%
--- midgard: heat, matter, energy -> 50%, cold, spirit, body: 45%
--- hibernia: 50%

Melee Snares
- friar side style snare reduced from 27 seconds to 19 seconds
- celtic spear side opener now has a 19 second snare
- large weapon side opener now has a 15 second snare instead of a bleed effect

Wizard:
- the triple resist debuff is now at 26/36/45 earth

Runemaster:
- the triple resist debuff is now at 25/36/45 runecarving

Eldritch:
- the triple resist debuff is now at 25/36/45 void

Mentalist:
- the triple resist debuff is now at 25/36/45 mentalism

Enchanter:
- experimental: added a new group buff at 10/21/31/41 enchanting spec that gives an offensive melee proc with a 10% proc chance to return 1/2/3/4% mana to all group member in 2k range
- the triple resist debuff is now at 25/36/45 mana

Eld/Ench/Mentalist:
- the dex and str single debuffs have been moved from void baseline to light (dex) and mana (str) baseline


Arena only changes for evaluation:
- aom special handling has beem removed
- resist debuff % special handling has been removed
- style snares that are not follow up styles will now have a 10 second duration + base weapon speed, values subject to change
- follow up style snares will now have a 13 second duration + 2x base weapon speed, values subject to change

Changed from the initial version:
Removed for mentalist: the pet charm pulse is now mentalism baseline, however, you can never charm mobs higher than your own level.
Instead the extra resist chance for higher pet levels in case of very low charm spec has been removed, this should make green pets commonly charmable while allowing high rr menta mentas to also charm high blue / low yellow ones.

Casted resist debuff values have been changed:
- the blue debuffs return to 15%
- the yellow debuffs return to 30%
- red debuffs become realm specific:
-- albion: heat, matter, cold, spirit, energy -> 50%, body: 40%
-- midgard: heat, matter, energy -> 50%, cold, spirit, body: 45%
-- hibernia: 50%
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:17 PM by evert
Please don’t standardise snares, variety+uniqueness is good. Other stuff seems fine.
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:20 PM by Eoril
Menta need instant heal, self rez and speed 5 and it will be perfect
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:21 PM by Tyrlaan
Even more Hib love.

The reduced debuff level won´t make a difference on Earth Wizards and RC RMs, they will want 47 in their major line regardless.

Void Elds get to drop Void to 46 because they get their last bolt one level earlier, Mentas get to drop Mentalism to 45 because the line has everything below 45. More points to put into Mana, I guess. And on top of one spec allowing them to be an ST stun debuff nuking caster with heals, NS, mezz, demezz, HoTs and DoTs, they will also get to charm a yellow con pet and stat debuffs...

I wouldn´t exactly call it balance changes.
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:22 PM by Noashakra
So mentalist is limited to lvl 50 pets now? I would be fine with that if ministrel had the same.
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:30 PM by Astaa
Let me get this right, just to make sure.

You are limiting mentalist pets to 50

But mincers can still charm reds?

Really....?
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:30 PM by Hazrael31
Noashakra wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:22 PM
So mentalist is limited to lvl 50 pets now? I would be fine with that if ministrel had the same.
+1
We cry about this since so long now..
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:32 PM by skipari
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:06 PM
- aom will end at 20% again at level 9

gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:06 PM
Arena only changes for evaluation:
- aom special handling has beem removed
- resist debuff % special handling has been removed

Does this means AOM in the arena is 30% again or is that part just redundant? Or does aom now count as primary resist since this would be some kind of special handling?

And if last; does the resist debuff % special means that the scaling against item/buffed resists gets removed and/or the 1.25 modifer gets changed?
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:32 PM by CowwoC
player can now only be affected by 1 static tempest at the same time (same as was already done for TWF ages ago)

Elaborate please. ST has a radius of 350 untis, so does that mean any other ST inside that radius will not be possible to plant or it will simply do nothing? Also, outside the radius of 350 untis, does a second ST will affect players again if they run from the first into the second? Are there immune timers?


Eld/Ench/Mentalist:
- the dex and str single debuffs have been moved from void baseline to light (dex) and mana (str) baseline

I don't understand this. So you took the debuffs from eld and transfered them to ench and menta? Why is that? Was there really a need to cripple void eld even more? Bolts miss 90% of the time, GTAoE is barely useful since there are not running much elds to coordinate attacks, which leaves the void eld as crippled debuff bot only. Great. If i'm missing something here i apologize, but please help me to understand how it will work. If it only was moved from void baseline to light/ mana baseline on void, i don't get it what this change aims to achieve with if it only changes the baseline. Or does it mean you changed it to light/ mana so nothing will change for elds but ench and menta also have access to those debuffs? If yes, i still don't get the buff for ench/ menta and void get's nothing. There really should be a buff for all bolt lines in all 3 realms imho, they are just plain weak compared to other specs.
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:37 PM by Parks45
I can stand the hib melee changes. Dont do the menta change it is dumb.... You will ruin light mentalists.. with that. i am a RR8l4 mentalist. I just got to rr8 and i am loving my toon, After reading this i dont even want to play my mentalist anymore.
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:38 PM by gruenesschaf
skipari wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:32 PM
Does this means AOM in the arena is 30% again or is that part just redundant? Or does aom now count as primary resist since this would be some kind of special handling?

And if last; does the resist debuff % special means that the scaling against item/buffed resists gets removed and/or the 1.25 modifer gets changed?

Redundant in case of aom and for resist debuffs it used the previous 15/30/50 values for casted resist debuffs that are not the alb body debuff.
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:51 PM by Sek
Are there still people that want to see minstrel even more nerfed than it already is ? lol we getting into WOW meta rather than daoc at some point, for information lvl 50-51 pets deals more damage than lvl 60 ones, surprising hé ? You can no longer purge negative effect on pet which is 15 years old basic mechanic. DAOC, even more DAOC CLASSIC used to be a limitless skill encounter between realms, every class were unique along couple of shared abilities, realm rank was some kind of boost rather than a solution. There was no class above other, only counters... beside the ability of some macro/micro player capable of making the best of it. Give small and 8v8 a chance, everyone is capable of joining the fray absent of BG protection. Enough with the anti-minstrel community, if you cannot appreciate the difference between classes, just stick to live or your BG and you will do just fine.
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:54 PM by MeatBicycle
Sek wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:51 PM
Are there still people that want to see minstrel even more nerfed than it already is ? lol we getting into WOW meta rather than daoc at some point, for information lvl 50-51 pets deals more damage than lvl 60 ones, surprising hé ? You can no longer purge negative effect on pet which is 15 years old basic mechanic. Enough with the anti-minstrel community, stick to you BG and you will do just fine.

there are even 8man alb groups running with 2 minstrel + red barguests and you think that minstrel is balanced? Hilarious.
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:02 PM by Sek
MeatBicycle wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:54 PM
Sek wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:51 PM
Are there still people that want to see minstrel even more nerfed than it already is ? lol we getting into WOW meta rather than daoc at some point, for information lvl 50-51 pets deals more damage than lvl 60 ones, surprising hé ? You can no longer purge negative effect on pet which is 15 years old basic mechanic. Enough with the anti-minstrel community, stick to you BG and you will do just fine.

there are even 8man alb groups running with 2 minstrel + red barguests and you think that minstrel is balanced? Hilarious.

2 bards, 3 healers formation, heard about them as well ? Red barghest worries you ? they deal less damage than Templar/Ellyl champion lvl 50-55. Can't you cc/snare them down since Minstrel was already heavily punished when devs decided to take aways its main ability to remove negative effect on pet by releasing them ? ( All a player had to do to counter it was to damage the pet before that one unCC its master ) but even that it seems most were not capable of understand the class itself.

PS : you do realize that only Minstrel was granted with SOS at 1.65 patch ? Jesus minstrel can charm a barghest, let's quit right now.
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:07 PM by sleeve
nice so mentalist can have red ns triple debuff massive heal, long single mezz and pet in one spec line. why would anyone playing ment not like tht
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:09 PM by Takeahnase
Eoril wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:20 PM
Menta need instant heal, self rez and speed 5 and it will be perfect

In addition to the above, mentalists also need a 10s aoe stun in one of their base lines, 2.0s cast time. The aoe DD should be moved to the mana line, and given a secondary aoe disease effect. After those changes, I believe that the mentalist will be on the right track towards competing in rvr.
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:13 PM by Astaa
Right, so they are trying to balance 8v8 and in doing so messing up the rest of the game, do they not understand, were the poll results (that they didn't like the answers to so swiftly binned) not enough? The majority of the server aren't interested in 8v8, we solo, small man, zerg or just mess about.

It's not even as though the 8v8 players like 8v8 with the amount of dodging fights to farm small mans that goes on, lol
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:17 PM by Ylai
The mentalist Changes are just crazy - I mean, a light ment had two things, damage and a pet - and you take away one of those? 🙄 nope, sorry. That’s not right. If the mentalists want the high pets, they should have to put points into it, like every charming class.
Apart from the buff / adaption with the single debuffs, which are just fine imho.

Snare changes for arena: yes please!

My suggestion since you implemented the triple debuff is to put in a triple buff too. Saves mana, downtimes and it would be just fair to get all 3 buffs on a „middle“ spec level, kinda what you did with the debuffs.

BTW: have you ever thought about the fact that only hibs really get use of the triple debuffs? Heat+cold for light menta+light eld nuke // body + energy for Ani + mana baseline nukes. Closest thing I can think of is Midgard, where I really like the BD Lifetap in a debuff target
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:19 PM by Iuppiter
gruenesschaf wrote: Mentalist:
- experimental: the pet charm pulse is now mentalism baseline, however, you can never charm mobs higher than your own level
- the triple resist debuff is now at 25/36/45 mentalism

Eld/Ench/Mentalist:
- the dex and str single debuffs have been moved from void baseline to light (dex) and mana (str) baseline
I like most changes, but not sure what to think about this one. This will be a nerf for light mentalists (who aren't OP) since they will lose the ability to interrupt moc and a buff for mentalism/mana ments who had to take a really low level pet to remain un-ccable (due to retaining the pet release mechanic that was removed from minstrel charm). I haven't seen a ton of utilization of the energy/body/spirit debuff train though, so maybe it will encourage that setup more or allow a mentalist to substitute in a support role.

gruenesschaf wrote: Arena only changes for evaluation:
- style snares that are not follow up styles will now have a 10 second duration + base weapon speed, values subject to change
- follow up style snares will now have a 13 second duration + 2x base weapon speed, values subject to change
This is an interesting idea - I'm not sure I'm a fan but will wait to see how it plays out. I like the changes to celtic spear and LW, opening those up for real peeling ability w/ a damage component, I think that kind of nuanced approach would be better than throwing all snare/snare follow-ups into the same formula (but I understand it's more work and people will cry "not fair", "favoritism", etc). However, some classes do not get access to follow-up style snares so will be limited to ~15s max duration snares. Additionally, follow-up snares are all over the place.
My paper daoc thinking :
-Mid has a sword+axe anytime follow-up snare at 18 which will certainly be a nice buff opening up those lines potentially, but hammer line gets nerfed pretty significantly
-Hib has blunt side follow-up at 21 - could see more bluntmasters with long snares which could be cool, but blades/pierce have no such option (and will even get a lower snare duration than their current side snares)
-Alb friar snares go down significantly, buff to pala/arms anytime 2h follow-up at 21, slash side snare will go up in duration, thrust anytimer will go down
Probably missing some, but those are my initial 2cents.

Anyways, thanks for continuing your work in improving the game and keeping things interesting!
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:25 PM by lampstandTDP
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:06 PM
Mentalist:
- experimental: the pet charm pulse is now mentalism baseline, however, you can never charm mobs higher than your own level
- the triple resist debuff is now at 25/36/45 mentalism


Not sure I like the idea of Light loosing its charm mechanic. Light is already a pretty thin spec line and you're about to gut it of a major selling point, gaining RRs and being able to charm higher mobs is a nice progression path. Remove the charm and you reduce a Light Menta to: spec DD + spec AoE - fun times!

If you want to try adding charmed pet to menta's toolkit, why not copy paste the charm spells for the sorcerer which then naturally cap at 100% of your level and gives more options for a Light menta and adds a level capped pet option to mana or mentalism.


PS: while I am here may ask that you have a look into the Light charm mana costs...

> 7p/tick murders power regen, effectively limiting desirable pets to humanoids 1p/tick or animals 2p/tick or suffer from going OOM FAST with any prolonged fight.
> Pet selection in the Hib frontier is pretty crappy also tbh, lowering the mana/tick of the higher versions might make charming much less of a headache opening up more mob types / locations for good pets.
> As I am sure that it has been said before (ad nauseam) the minstrel equivalent is already better in every way... insta cast / has no resource upkeep / with 50spec (usual) can charm higher level mobs / no longer has to be twisted.
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:28 PM by CowwoC
Astaa wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:13 PM
Right, so they are trying to balance 8v8 and in doing so messing up the rest of the game, do they not understand, were the poll results (that they didn't like the answers to so swiftly binned) not enough? The majority of the server aren't interested in 8v8, we solo, small man, zerg or just mess about.

It's not even as though the 8v8 players like 8v8 with the amount of dodging fights to farm small mans that goes on, lol

Agree. Imho those changes have to stop to mainly address 8 mans only and rather aim for the whole server, which means casuals, zerg surfer, lone wolfs and small man as well. The whole rp-farming-8v8-event-zone already shows where this journey will go in the future.
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:28 PM by Tulpa
Noashakra wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:22 PM
So mentalist is limited to lvl 50 pets now? I would be fine with that if ministrel had the same.

This so much this get rid of the b******* red pets

In fact no one should be able to charm anything higher than their level or the level of their spell. If people want bigger tougher pets they should have to spec into a line for buffs or something along those lines. Just like the enchanter has to spec enchantment to buff up their pet
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:30 PM by Morloth
Sek wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:02 PM
MeatBicycle wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:54 PM
Sek wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:51 PM
Are there still people that want to see minstrel even more nerfed than it already is ? lol we getting into WOW meta rather than daoc at some point, for information lvl 50-51 pets deals more damage than lvl 60 ones, surprising hé ? You can no longer purge negative effect on pet which is 15 years old basic mechanic. Enough with the anti-minstrel community, stick to you BG and you will do just fine.

there are even 8man alb groups running with 2 minstrel + red barguests and you think that minstrel is balanced? Hilarious.

2 bards, 3 healers formation, heard about them as well ? Red barghest worries you ? they deal less damage than Templar/Ellyl champion lvl 50-55. Can't you cc/snare them down since Minstrel was already heavily punished when devs decided to take aways its main ability to remove negative effect on pet by releasing them ? ( All a player had to do to counter it was to damage the pet before that one unCC its master ) but even that it seems most were not capable of understand the class itself.

PS : you do realize that only Minstrel was granted with SOS at 1.65 patch ? Jesus minstrel can charm a barghest, let's quit right now.

Minstrels are a chain wearing stealther that can climb walls, insta-stun, cast mez on the run, insta-charm and recharm red pets that can be used as a second purge, and SoS away when things go south. Certainly you can see why some people want a minstrel nerf and not a skald nerf?

I actually think not allowing a minstrel a red pet fixes the class. And if it really wasn't a big deal you wouldn't care so much about it.
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:38 PM by Tyrlaan
Iuppiter wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:19 PM
I haven't seen a ton of utilization of the energy/body/spirit debuff train though, so maybe it will encourage that setup more or allow a mentalist to substitute in a support role.
I notice plenty of body/energy debuffs from Hibs already in my chat log. What´s not to like to debuff for your tangler/bomber Animist and every other Hib caster?

Mid still only gets blue energy resist buffs most of the time btw. But Hib caster love is what we needed the most.
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:41 PM by Sek
Stealth spec allow you to climb wall therefore not many minstrel can climb walls. Minstrel with yellow pet only ? Have you ever played at daoc beside phoenix ?
No minstrel can pretend caring about their class anymore on this server, they already gave up yet it doesn't mean we are welcoming more changes that misrepresent the game itself. Minstrel is nowhere close to its golden age.. yet if you are still believing that Minstrel is overpowered, i invite you to play at WOW, i heard a new patch is coming.. all you have to do is to reach max level and press the same 10 keys at same time,
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:49 PM by Iuppiter
Tyrlaan wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:38 PM
Iuppiter wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:19 PM
I haven't seen a ton of utilization of the energy/body/spirit debuff train though, so maybe it will encourage that setup more or allow a mentalist to substitute in a support role.
I notice plenty of body/energy debuffs from Hibs already in my chat log. What´s not to like to debuff for your tangler/bomber Animist and every other Hib caster?

Mid still only gets blue energy resist buffs most of the time btw. But Hib caster love is what we needed the most.

I agree there is synergy there, just my observations from my playtime - I've seen more traditional heat/cold caster grps than energy/body. I think players can adapt if more energy trains are roaming though, augh will have to really think about going 40mend/36aug
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:49 PM by Chamie
Melee Snares
- friar side style snare reduced from 27 seconds to 19 seconds
- celtic spear side opener now has a 19 second snare
- large weapon side opener now has a 15 second snare instead of a bleed effect

Thank god, finally! Good changes to the casters too, finally we are seeing a patch in the right direction towards making casters viable again after HP buffs + WP nerf.

Keep in mind that last arena had Premade and Dark Dawn the two (by far) strongest groups on the server both running caster (hib and mid). They had great results because they had no competition at that level, not because of their setup. They are both certainly much more beatable on caster than tanker or hybrid, they select their rosters for their groups as if DAoC was some kind of e-sport.
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:58 PM by gruenesschaf
CowwoC wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:28 PM
Astaa wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:13 PM
Right, so they are trying to balance 8v8 and in doing so messing up the rest of the game, do they not understand, were the poll results (that they didn't like the answers to so swiftly binned) not enough? The majority of the server aren't interested in 8v8, we solo, small man, zerg or just mess about.

It's not even as though the 8v8 players like 8v8 with the amount of dodging fights to farm small mans that goes on, lol

Agree. Imho those changes have to stop to mainly address 8 mans only and rather aim for the whole server, which means casuals, zerg surfer, lone wolfs and small man as well. The whole rp-farming-8v8-event-zone already shows where this journey will go in the future.

Please tell me what class changes help with the current mid leadership / community issue, with 80 vs 40 fights, or 3 vs 6 or 1 vs 3? The best that can be done for the general case is to remove / reduce or redistribute the impact / availability of oppressive abilities. Other than that, there is nothing you can reasonably do with class changes that has any noticeable impact by itself in cases where the number of players on each side greatly differs.

And given that the group cap in daoc happens to be 8, it's a perfectly reasonable expected number of players to balance around. These changes obviously affect the zerg fights as well but the impact of any one change is usually rather diminished in those cases.
Sun 31 Jan 2021 11:05 PM by Nephamael
Great changes!

- experimental: added a new group buff at 10/21/31/41 enchanting spec that gives an offensive melee proc with a 10% proc chance to return 1/2/3/4% mana to all group member in 2k range
- the triple resist debuff is now at 25/36/45 mana

curious how that will play out, sadly it will do not much for hib caster i guess.

- experimental: the pet charm pulse is now mentalism baseline, however, you can never charm mobs higher than your own level

Yes, that is a great idea for mentalism ment - but what about lightment? If you want to allow hib heat and energy type trains lightment does need either its own charmline or something else.

Why not allow mentalists to charm higher than their own level but allow minstrels? That seems to make 0 sense to me. Especially since a mentalist is a squishy caster and not a chain wearing almost cc immune halftank (hpwise) with abla chant lol.

I think minstrels are at a pretty ok level, still super strong but not extremely unbarably op.
Mentalist was in a pretty ok state after he got a 2300 range rupt, but far away from oppressive - in fact mentalist is much weaker than a sorc or cabba utilitywise.
Even another eld is and was much better for most groups than another menta.


So here is what i think should happen:

Mentalism can have a charmline.

Light simply keeps its old charmline too.

Level of charmed mob stays exactly as before, allowing a 47 mentalism or 45 light mentalist a oj to red pet just like a minstrel.


- style snares that are not follow up styles will now have a 10 second duration + base weapon speed, values subject to change
- follow up style snares will now have a 13 second duration + 2x base weapon speed, values subject to change

Awesome, long overdue and cant wait until that gets implemented for everyone.
Sun 31 Jan 2021 11:11 PM by Dogmans897
Disagree with all the minstrel T.T.
I think people just complain about it because it has been a common and popular complaint since ancient times.
The 3 speed classes have their own unique feel.
The Skald obviously has frontloaded damage (aided by AotG) to run better with Midgard melee trains, and can perform well solo.
The Bard has more group utility in their heals (and now root) to play better with the typical Hibernia group setups. More geared toward small-man and more, not so great solo.
The Minstrel has their pet to provide utility in a way other than the healing that the Bard provides. Can also perform very well solo when played right.

Bard & Minstrel both Cure Mez, Skald doesn't.
Skald & Bard have resist songs, Minstrel doesn't.
Skald gets Determination, Minstrel and Bard don't.

For CC:
Bard - gets root, AoE mez, single target mezz, and an instant cast amnesia with 2000 range... Both mez spells have 1500 range.
Skald - gets single target mez and snare, both insta cast... Snare has a range of 1500, mez is 700.
Minstrel - gets stun, AoE mez, and single target Mez pulse... Both mezzes have 1500 range, stun is 700.

Other:
Minstrel - Can get stealth & climb walls. Climb walls is pretty useful but many don't spec much into stealth at all. Especially 8mans or minstrels that zerg. (Already mentioned pet above)
Bard - Heal, Group Heal, Cure Disease, Cure Poison, Weak Resurrection, Base AF Buff, Base Str Buff, Base Con Buff, Base Dex Buff, Spec AF Buff (which all will have as they need to spec Nurture for speed)
Skald - Basically just more melee damage.

All share SoS, and Ameliorating Melodies (if they choose to get this).

In return for their RED CON (Le gasp) pet they have more that they need to manage than the other two classes. The skill ceiling is higher. Skald is arguably easier to play than Bard which is arguably easier to play than Minstrel.
Skald groups are often lead with a Healer out front for CC purposes, while he plays a secondary role their. Fewer keybinds, as they have fewer skills and no pet to manage.
Bards lead the group and manage main CC, then often pull back to do any healing necessary before checking if more CC is needed up front.
Minstrel most often leads groups and focuses on main CC, then needs to manage their own instants (like a bard & skald) to interrupt as necessary, while at the same time keeping track of their pet and what it is doing (if they want to make use of the, le gasp, RED CON and not just have it be a pretty pet accessory). They get no casted heals or cures so they need to be up near the front more with their groupmates to be useful (which means more risk - need to play the distance game constantly).

Well you could argue that playing the distance game and managing a pet are easy as an experienced player. I argue that not everyone is experienced and not everyone has played a speed class before, or a class that leads an 8man out front, or even a pet class even though this game is so old. Some people are/were intimidated by the pressure of the role, others just may not have had any interest in it for a long time but finally decided to try one.
My point is that not EVERY Minstrel is gonna be god-tier at manipulating their pets to cause mayhem like all you whiners make it seem. While on my Healer I've run across horrible Minstrels and Bards. On my BM I've seen plenty of awful Skalds and on my Sorc I've seen plenty of poor play as well. Just as much as I've been owned by some really good play.
If you want 3 identical speed classes across the realms and are okay with killing the class diversity across the realms just come out and say it already because I suspect that is the ONLY thing that would make you all happy at this point.
Sun 31 Jan 2021 11:12 PM by Nephamael
Please tell me what class changes help with the current mid leadership / community issue, with 80 vs 40 fights

I think giving all melee classes the ability to climb walls will surely help Midgard to be more attractive in zergfights.

Ofc it does not make a dedicated 24/7 online leader suddenly pop up but it would be probably cool for all 3 realms and make keepfights much more exciting with mobility and wall suppression.
Sun 31 Jan 2021 11:21 PM by CowwoC
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:58 PM
CowwoC wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:28 PM
Astaa wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:13 PM
Right, so they are trying to balance 8v8 and in doing so messing up the rest of the game, do they not understand, were the poll results (that they didn't like the answers to so swiftly binned) not enough? The majority of the server aren't interested in 8v8, we solo, small man, zerg or just mess about.

It's not even as though the 8v8 players like 8v8 with the amount of dodging fights to farm small mans that goes on, lol

Agree. Imho those changes have to stop to mainly address 8 mans only and rather aim for the whole server, which means casuals, zerg surfer, lone wolfs and small man as well. The whole rp-farming-8v8-event-zone already shows where this journey will go in the future.

Please tell me what class changes help with the current mid leadership / community issue, with 80 vs 40 fights, or 3 vs 6 or 1 vs 3? The best that can be done for the general case is to remove / reduce or redistribute the impact / availability of oppressive abilities. Other than that, there is nothing you can reasonably do with class changes that has any noticeable impact by itself in cases where the number of players on each side greatly differs.

And given that the group cap in daoc happens to be 8, it's a perfectly reasonable expected number of players to balance around. These changes obviously affect the zerg fights as well but the impact of any one change is usually rather diminished in those cases.

What has the mid issue to do with the changes you made recently? I'm aware of the issues mid has, i'm not saying that mid needs a buff without putting thoughts into it. In other threads i already said, that mid isn't/ does not feel weak because their classes are weak, but because mid has a intern conflict and no 24/7 leader like polemo or pilzpower. I neither know of which oppressive abilities you speak of, could you explain please?

I don't want to do your job, because i can imagine that it's hard to deal with all the frustration and maybe even hate from people you have to encounter while investing your free time into this server, but on the other hand there has to be room for peoples opinions(which you provide) about changes you make. You'll never make all happy, but recently - at least for me - it feels the patch/ blance priority shifts heavily to adjust 8v8 combat. Yes the max group size is 8 people, but the majority are not e-sport min-maxer, so i'd rather see a general balance between the realms for all situation, rather than a focus on 8v8 compositions.

Maybe it would help if changes would be more explained, so that people can better understand why you made them and what you try to achieve. There is no doubt that there are things which are overlooked by the community when you introduce your changes blank.
Sun 31 Jan 2021 11:33 PM by Nephamael
it feels the patch/ blance priority shifts heavily to adjust 8v8 combat.

Phoenix already did a TON of zerg balance patches since the launch.

Now that zergfights are mostly balanced they turn more to the long overdue 8v8 balance adjustments. And thats a good thing!

On top those class adjustments will open more classes to be more useful in zerg and more fun to play, so its a good thing for zerg too.


(the only ones horribly suffering on phoenix are solo casters - but well .... just dont play a solo caster on this server, or who knows there might be adjustments one day :p resist rates to 0% for solo casters, auto defense reduction or so, who knows)
Sun 31 Jan 2021 11:38 PM by SaintRon
Sek wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:41 PM
Stealth spec allow you to climb wall therefore not many minstrel can climb walls. Minstrel with yellow pet only ? Have you ever played at daoc beside phoenix ?
No minstrel can pretend caring about their class anymore on this server, they already gave up yet it doesn't mean we are welcoming more changes that misrepresent the game itself. Minstrel is nowhere close to its golden age.. yet if you are still believing that Minstrel is overpowered, i invite you to play at WOW, i heard a new patch is coming.. all you have to do is to reach max level and press the same 10 keys at same time,

First - you do know WoW is generally more complex than DAoC if you're playing outside of casual play?

Second - Trying win arguments by "you should play WoW" is childish and pathetic.
Mon 1 Feb 2021 12:12 AM by tape85
Are mentalists actually complaining about this change? Is this some kind of reverse psychology so that the change goes through? And why are we comparing a hib cloth caster charm to an alb hybrid/music class. Signed,
Curious Midgard player (who is watching conquer advantage go byebye)
Mon 1 Feb 2021 12:49 AM by gotwqqd
Astaa wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:30 PM
Let me get this right, just to make sure.

You are limiting mentalist pets to 50

But mincers can still charm reds?

Really....?
Their toolkits don’t compare in the least
Mon 1 Feb 2021 2:27 AM by Sek
SaintRon wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 11:38 PM
Sek wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:41 PM
Stealth spec allow you to climb wall therefore not many minstrel can climb walls. Minstrel with yellow pet only ? Have you ever played at daoc beside phoenix ?
No minstrel can pretend caring about their class anymore on this server, they already gave up yet it doesn't mean we are welcoming more changes that misrepresent the game itself. Minstrel is nowhere close to its golden age.. yet if you are still believing that Minstrel is overpowered, i invite you to play at WOW, i heard a new patch is coming.. all you have to do is to reach max level and press the same 10 keys at same time,

First - you do know WoW is generally more complex than DAoC if you're playing outside of casual play?

Second - Trying win arguments by "you should play WoW" is childish and pathetic.

Spending his day on forum complaining about a class one knows nothing about and worse one does not try to understand by seeking its weakness in order to get it nerfed without a clue about DAOC and 1.65 even custom such as Uthgard/Genesis is pathetic and childish.
Some of us are committed to what 1.65 custom should be less the impulses of the dazed players willing to ease their gameplay and make everything accessible therefore reducing the hypothetical downsides they may encounter while playing as much as possible.
1.65 was pretty much balanced already which inspired ton of freeshards, any custom change were made to improve the gaming experience and help the ongoing community to figure its role.
Phoenix is the only reliable daoc freeshard left, it is sad to see the amount of changes that altered the original gameplay yet somehow bound to its high demography since most players rather stick to zerg than experience solo up to 8v8 and fully comprehend the extent of their classes.
Yes DAOC 1.65 is more of a micro game while WOW is more of a macro one.
If you ever played at daoc 1.65, you shouldn't be complaining about minstrel on Phoenix..But if you do, please level one and measure your multitasking abilities. After all DAOC is all about diversity, feel free to level any class and have fun ;-)
Mon 1 Feb 2021 2:36 AM by boridi
"Give Axe/Sword a small boost" has turned into multiple Pandora's boxes... and yet Axe/Sword still need a small boost
Mon 1 Feb 2021 2:55 AM by Bry
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:06 PM
General:
- player can now only be affected by 1 static tempest at the same time (same as was already done for TWF ages ago)
- aom will end at 20% again at level 9
- hib mana baseline nuke cost reduced to suppression baseline nuke levels
- alb matter baseline nuke cost reduced to suppression baseline nuke levels

Thank you - balancing the power costs and reverting part of the caster debuff/aom double nerf is helpful!

Mentalist:
- experimental: the pet charm pulse is now mentalism baseline, however, you can never charm mobs higher than your own level

Please don't remove the light spec pet charm. Add a baseline Mentalism charm if necessary to give the option to run a Mentalism Ment, but don't nerf Light Ments for the sake of giving an option to have a pet. Also, the pet mana cost needs to be addressed. Either make the Minstrel charm cost mana or update the Mentalist pet charm so it doesn't run them out of power if they charm anything other than a humanoid or animal.

Enchanter:
- experimental: added a new group buff at 10/21/31/41 enchanting spec that gives an offensive melee proc with a 10% proc chance to return 1/2/3/4% mana to all group member in 2k range
What? Enchantment is arguably one of the most useless specs in the game. There is no reason to put points in to this outside of pve. This will never be used in rvr. At the most, an enchanter will put 10 points in enchantments for the level 10 1% proc. That means, that if there is 1 melee in the group, he would have to swing 100 times to give the group 10% mana back. that would take 150 seconds, so 2.5 minutes for 10% power. Who knows, maybe it'll help out some pve'rs.
I believe it would be better to make the baseline heat nuke be on par with the other baseline nukes in the game. 33 power a nuke with a very low light spec is incredibly power hungy.


- the triple resist debuff is now at 25/36/45 mana
Thank you! Now enchanters can spec 48 mana, 24 light and be somewhat more competative with the other debuff classes.

It would have been nice to see a root or mez added instead of the mana proc. We'll see how it goes.

Eld/Ench/Mentalist:
- the dex and str single debuffs have been moved from void baseline to light (dex) and mana (str) baseline
Enchanters and mentalists don't have single debuffs? Were they added?

Thanks again for all your hard work!
Mon 1 Feb 2021 3:19 AM by ExcretusMaximus
Sek wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:02 PM
2 bards, 3 healers formation, heard about them as well ?

Show me a healer or bard with a pet that takes forever to kill when buffed, can easily have negative effects removed from them by any competent player, and ignores MoC, then you can compare them. Saying a group with two bards or healers is like a group with two minstrels is saying that a group with four clerics is like a group with four tanks, pointless and stupid.
Mon 1 Feb 2021 3:25 AM by speedr
Since you've given every melee class, except valewalkers, easy access to a melee snare, can you please do the same for valewalkers?
Mon 1 Feb 2021 4:18 AM by easytoremember
I think the power yield on the Enchanter's proc buff should be a hard amount instead of a %

For Mentalist charm you could make it so that conventional light specs are still able to charm 51+ pets (ie the current formula with everything cutting under 50 ommitted, or placing an improved line of charm spells high up in the spec line)
Mon 1 Feb 2021 7:24 AM by dreginkt
When they said they were going to buff hib caster I didn't think they meant kill it. This pet change is ridiculous. If you want to run caster set up it's now going to be all albs which ironically was the setup they claimed they wanted to nerf. Alb already dominates the pet game and now even more so. Ouch.
Mon 1 Feb 2021 7:31 AM by lampstandTDP
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:06 PM
Enchanter:
- experimental: added a new group buff at 10/21/31/41 enchanting spec that gives an offensive melee proc with a 10% proc chance to return 1/2/3/4% mana to all group member in 2k range


Having thought on this proposed change some more, something like this might be much better suited on a Druid/Nature Druid.

With a pet on attack the druid will always be in combat and suffer a mana regen penalty. Having a way of returning mana via the pet would be quite an elegant solution and fit well into the class fantasy...

Perhaps for balance considerations, make the mana return to the druid only or X% to the druid and X/Y% for group members?
Mon 1 Feb 2021 7:33 AM by Noashakra
tape85 wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 12:12 AM
Are mentalists actually complaining about this change? Is this some kind of reverse psychology so that the change goes through? And why are we comparing a hib cloth caster charm to an alb hybrid/music class. Signed,
Curious Midgard player (who is watching conquer advantage go byebye)

Dude, it's a clear nerf for light menta, who play in an eld and chanter comp.
Not everyone want to play with an animist in their group. I don't think people asked for the pet charm in baseline.
But if they limit the pet level for light mentalists, they should consider doing the same for mincers (lmiting to orange pets would be good).

Alb is the OP realm, that's why they try to make those changes. Just take a loot at the gvg list, usually it's like 6-8 groups vs 2 mid groups vs 1 hib group
Mon 1 Feb 2021 7:35 AM by Sepplord
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:58 PM
Please tell me what class changes help with the current mid leadership / community issue, with 80 vs 40 fights, or 3 vs 6 or 1 vs 3? The best that can be done for the general case is to remove / reduce or redistribute the impact / availability of oppressive abilities. Other than that, there is nothing you can reasonably do with class changes that has any noticeable impact by itself in cases where the number of players on each side greatly differs.

And given that the group cap in daoc happens to be 8, it's a perfectly reasonable expected number of players to balance around. These changes obviously affect the zerg fights as well but the impact of any one change is usually rather diminished in those cases.

I really don't know about specific changes, i can see how that is a hard riddle to solve...but in general it probably would help to not make it seem as if the realm is more or less abandoned development wise. I am not saying it is, but it feels like it every time another patch is announced. In early ones you were at least still mentioning midgard-specific setup changes coming, that got more and more vague and now we are at not even being mentioned anymore and the first staff post in the thread kind of sounding like "well we don't know how to fix midgards issues, do YOU???...so well, nothing will be coming. Instead we are pouring all of our development time into single classes to make the game more enjoyable for the 8vs8 crowd".
And while unintentional, the realmspecific changes can be utilized pretty well by hib/alb smallmen, while running 2healers for celerity on midgard is just not viable at small groupsizes as you will be missing tons of dmg (yeah, probably my smallman bias kicking in there...but seriously, ONE relevant midgard only change and it is unusable outside of groupsize 7+). Are there plenty midgroups in GvG/arena event because mid is so strong...or because it is the only thing left to do in mid?


I have several explanations for this that are not "duh they hate realm XYZ" because i sincerely believe that's not the case. But you are doing a really bad job at explaining how/why midgard changes are deemed unneccessary (which also has a history of understandable reasons ) balancewise. But you guys are still there and explaining/interacting, so why not just put some facts/numbers onto the table that make it more understandable for players outside the 8vs8 scene why these patches go the way they go? Friar/pala was somehow still understandable for most, the energy/time being spent on mentalists less so.
Mon 1 Feb 2021 8:06 AM by MeatBicycle
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:58 PM
CowwoC wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:28 PM
Astaa wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:13 PM
Right, so they are trying to balance 8v8 and in doing so messing up the rest of the game, do they not understand, were the poll results (that they didn't like the answers to so swiftly binned) not enough? The majority of the server aren't interested in 8v8, we solo, small man, zerg or just mess about.

It's not even as though the 8v8 players like 8v8 with the amount of dodging fights to farm small mans that goes on, lol

Agree. Imho those changes have to stop to mainly address 8 mans only and rather aim for the whole server, which means casuals, zerg surfer, lone wolfs and small man as well. The whole rp-farming-8v8-event-zone already shows where this journey will go in the future.

Please tell me what class changes help with the current mid leadership / community issue, with 80 vs 40 fights, or 3 vs 6 or 1 vs 3? The best that can be done for the general case is to remove / reduce or redistribute the impact / availability of oppressive abilities. Other than that, there is nothing you can reasonably do with class changes that has any noticeable impact by itself in cases where the number of players on each side greatly differs.

And given that the group cap in daoc happens to be 8, it's a perfectly reasonable expected number of players to balance around. These changes obviously affect the zerg fights as well but the impact of any one change is usually rather diminished in those cases.

i appreciate your efforts on phönix and had quite a good time here, but can't agree with that. Of course mid doesn't have a leader like pilz and polemo with huge online presence, but there are more problems regarding zergfights. On eu prime i can only remember the time with the huge german bg where mid stood a chance against alb/hib (and even Polemo/Giosakis with his online presence gave up on mid cause the "zerg" was mostly a 16 slot)

- lowest aoe dot since shamans don't get acuity buff (and shamans are needed on buff spec, bd aoe dot has lower delve )
- less field RA´s then alb/hib. In addition we have twf on a cloth caster compared to quite bulky chain/scale classes
- no climber with slam
- archers with lowest dmg+range
- MoPain Nerf hits melee more than WP-Nerf hits casters cause they can go for MoMagery while Melees don't have something like that
- Healers as main CC, as soon as the pac has to heal in zerg situations you miss tons of rupt

Mid advantages for zerg? aoe stun, but i don't think it really compares to all the disadvantages. people are choosing hib/alb cause its easier to zerg in that realms. leader-wise and balance-wise.
Mon 1 Feb 2021 8:25 AM by Astaa
I agree, the efforts are very much appreciated and please don't take criticism too negatively but...reducing mincer pet level would have a small effect on 8v8, Albs have plenty of pet utility as it is, but it would go a long way to fixing them solo and wouldn't make any difference either way in zerg v zerg.

Or make it a choice for them, speed and utility vs high level pet, to keep it simple you could always tie the pet charm into stealth and adjust the existing level mechanic slightly.
Mon 1 Feb 2021 8:43 AM by byron
So the only change for Mid here is the revert back of the AoM values, good to know that our tanks can go back to explode with 4 casts instead of 5... the pain will be shorter
Mon 1 Feb 2021 8:57 AM by Uthred
Pls stop the insults and personal attacks.
Mon 1 Feb 2021 10:27 AM by dagnes
I think a follow up snare should be more rewarding!

for example. you hit someone with a backsnare with 2h its like 10 + 5.5delay =15.5sec snare
Use a followupstyle with an 1h (3sec delay) you have like 10 + 3+ 3 = 16sec snare. OnTop for Example the alb thrust combo you have to put 44 points in to thrust, which are very high points => you can onlay spec 47pole 42shield and like 8parry. your defence compared to a hero or a warrior is just really bad. exspecially if you compare your defence while Dashing defence is up. Please keep in mind you cant really use slow 1h weapons because the autobubble which nearly every group has in combination with no to hitbonus on the first style will make it nearly impossible to hit.

you have like 42 shield wich is cut by half against Zerk/BM etc. and your parry skill (8) is to low.
while DD is up a warrior has like 50shield and 30 parry. A Hero has the same. Of course you could argue you dont have to get the 1h thrust snare. But anyway you have to skill it for dmg. Just want to say, with this changes 1h thrust isnt worse anymore because the snare is just the same as the 2h snare and you have to give up most of your defence.
Mon 1 Feb 2021 10:51 AM by skipari
dagnes wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 10:27 AM
you have like 42 shield wich is cut by half against Zerk/BM etc.

just a small correction, dualwield shield penetration is here nerfed to 25% instead 50%.
Mon 1 Feb 2021 10:52 AM by Honethite
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:06 PM
Mentalist:
- experimental: the pet charm pulse is now mentalism baseline, however, you can never charm mobs higher than your own level
- the triple resist debuff is now at 25/36/45 mentalism

Why a drastic change for a mind control class? Why not base charm for weaker pets and spec charm for stronger pets?
Mon 1 Feb 2021 12:17 PM by Anaris
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:06 PM
Melee Snares
- friar side style snare reduced from 27 seconds to 19 seconds


Good and logical change.

Other things will be changed for friar (or warden eventually)?

Thanks for your work.
Mon 1 Feb 2021 2:03 PM by gruenesschaf
The menta pet charm thing will not be part of the update today
Mon 1 Feb 2021 3:05 PM by Centenario
Still no fancy changes.
Hib baseline stun still OP
Alb still ugly in casual 8v8 so they are forced to overwhelm with number and bg to win.
Mon 1 Feb 2021 4:46 PM by Tyrlaan
lampstandTDP wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 7:31 AM
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:06 PM
Enchanter:
- experimental: added a new group buff at 10/21/31/41 enchanting spec that gives an offensive melee proc with a 10% proc chance to return 1/2/3/4% mana to all group member in 2k range


Having thought on this proposed change some more, something like this might be much better suited on a Druid/Nature Druid.

With a pet on attack the druid will always be in combat and suffer a mana regen penalty. Having a way of returning mana via the pet would be quite an elegant solution and fit well into the class fantasy...

Perhaps for balance considerations, make the mana return to the druid only or X% to the druid and X/Y% for group members?

TBH I don´t think such a group proc will make any group want to actually run an Enchantment Chanter.
However, their damadd bot can now also grant the group a power heal proc. That´s nice to have.
Mon 1 Feb 2021 4:56 PM by Sek
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 3:19 AM
Sek wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:02 PM
2 bards, 3 healers formation, heard about them as well ?

Show me a healer or bard with a pet that takes forever to kill when buffed, can easily have negative effects removed from them by any competent player, and ignores MoC, then you can compare them. Saying a group with two bards or healers is like a group with two minstrels is saying that a group with four clerics is like a group with four tanks, pointless and stupid.

Bard/Healer/Minstrel share common role, rupting. 2 of them have been boosted while the minstrel has been nerfed. I wonder how freeshard players used to defeat albs on 8v8 less SOS back in the days, it seems unlikely if we stick to your experience.
You can still remove effect by releasing pet, damaging it then recharming it assuming it does not resist at first which decrease considerably your impact on rupting role while doing it.
You can snare pets while kiting just like hunter's pet with incredible speed ,enchanter pet, mentalist pet and so on, nothing to do with moc... Phoenix made sure every single melee class were granted with snare.. Albion has always been the pet realm.
An encounter isn't defined by the amount of pet charmed by x but by the coordination between players and the knowledge they share on table.
Both bard and healer are provided with a far more impressive role within a group than minstrel itself, by far. Minstrel has its use but thrives mostly as solo.
https://youtu.be/T35Fw_BKmO8?t=158 pets are so difficult to deal with !
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:22 PM by Cymosxl
We need more debuffs,more caster utility,more Aom nerf,we need still more for casters, 3cabba 2 sorc groups witout an end are not enough,we need more.
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:24 PM by Ele
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:06 PM
- style snares that are not follow up styles will now have a 10 second duration + base weapon speed, values subject to change
- follow up style snares will now have a 13 second duration + 2x base weapon speed, values subject to change

I'm a bit at a loss with these change. The last few patches were aimed at improving/balancing caster groups across the realms. The length of a snare is only interesting for a caster groups peeler, as in tanker groups the melees tend to stick/snare their targets down, so the duration of the snare itself doesn't matter. For caster groups, shorter snares result in more work for the peeler and shorter windows of opportunity for nuking/ccing. Is this the intention of the change, or just a side effect, or did I get it wrong completely?
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:37 PM by Pingyongyang
Please tell me what class changes help with the current mid leadership / community issue, with 80 vs 40 fights, or 3 vs 6 or 1 vs 3? The best that can be done for the general case is to remove / reduce or redistribute the impact / availability of oppressive abilities. Other than that, there is nothing you can reasonably do with class changes that has any noticeable impact by itself in cases where the number of players on each side greatly differs.

Talking about even number BGs give Runemaster Negative Maelstrom. Take one NM away from Albion. Took awhile to only have one Static Tempest at once, now limit to 4 Negative Maelstroms that can do damage in a 500 radius area at one time. These changes have been talked about forever. Why is this painfully obvious to everyone else? Play in the Mid BG yourself.

Make Bone Army Bonedancer a viable spec. This should be also obvious it is a spec no one uses and from the looks of the class should be one of the most played. Make the AE DoT much more powerful and buff the bone army pets or give a Bone Army spec buff for commander that keeps him alive or can demezz once every 5 min / 10 min whatever and make juggernaut something worth speccing in. Arguable BD BoneArmy spec should be the pet class spec with strongest pets that is popular and NO ONE plays it! If there were BA BDs and can stack with Cave Sham you would also see more cave shaman out there to double DoT.

This also would be a huge boon to Mid keep defense which Mid is clearly the weakest at.

These are not hard problems! This post makes it look like you given up on Midgard and it is also painfully obvious you have not played in a Mid BG regularly in a long time! You guys are over in the arena watching Friars side snare Mentalists and see what happens in 8v8.

Minstrel pets need yellow pet, why is this taking so long when so many agreed they are an OP class in surveys?
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:40 PM by Sek
Pingyongyang wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:37 PM
Please tell me what class changes help with the current mid leadership / community issue, with 80 vs 40 fights, or 3 vs 6 or 1 vs 3? The best that can be done for the general case is to remove / reduce or redistribute the impact / availability of oppressive abilities. Other than that, there is nothing you can reasonably do with class changes that has any noticeable impact by itself in cases where the number of players on each side greatly differs.

Talking about even number BGs give Runemaster Negative Maelstrom. Take one NM away from Albion.

Minstrel pets need yellow pet, why is this taking so long when so many agreed they are an OP class in surveys?

Disagree, do not nerf minstrel more than it already is, explain them that higher pet level are dealing lot less damage than they should.
Skald > Minstrel on 1v1 at same rank and skill level...Minstrel should be far better than Skald.
Fix the negative purge effect on pet and make it work as it's intended to and raise red pet damage. Do not surrender what daoc is supposed to be and force player to try harder while dealing with a 1v1 oriented class. Most of the melee community does not realize they were given 500-800 extra hps and capable of snaring down someone.
Please, do not add insult to injury, love.
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:46 PM by Pingyongyang
Nope still nerf Minstrel pet to yellow. Red pet is ridiculous survey already shows players think they are most OP class by far.
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:54 PM by Sek
Pingyongyang wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:46 PM
Nope still nerf Minstrel pet to yellow.

Minstrel is already on the brink of extinction, this would force player to quit playing minstrel once for all.
Your need to see Minstrel class even more nerfed is led by selfish reasons, this is sad.
It is outrageous to witness what that class has become and yet some are still willing to see it turned into dust.
Please refer to DAOC 1.65 if you have never played at that patch, we already beyond hope concerning lot of classes there, devs must keep in mind this is a 1.65 custom server yes, nonetheless a 1.65 one.
Stop that non sense of giving away basic 15 years old features to people not ready to make the effort to comprehend the gameplay.. Starts with a finger then there goes your forearm before you have time to figure out
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:59 PM by dagnes
Ele wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:24 PM
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:06 PM
- style snares that are not follow up styles will now have a 10 second duration + base weapon speed, values subject to change
- follow up style snares will now have a 13 second duration + 2x base weapon speed, values subject to change

I'm a bit at a loss with these change. The last few patches were aimed at improving/balancing caster groups across the realms. The length of a snare is only interesting for a caster groups peeler, as in tanker groups the melees tend to stick/snare their targets down, so the duration of the snare itself doesn't matter. For caster groups, shorter snares result in more work for the peeler and shorter windows of opportunity for nuking/ccing. Is this the intention of the change, or just a side effect, or did I get it wrong completely?

peel is imoportant in every group. If the tanks can reach the healers they loose too. So its important in every setup.
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:59 PM by Fiatil
Sek wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:54 PM
Pingyongyang wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:46 PM
Nope still nerf Minstrel pet to yellow.

Minstrel is already on the brink of extinction, this would force player to quit playing minstrel once for all.
Your need to see Minstrel class even more nerfed is led by selfish reasons, this is sad.

Come on, the "brink of extinction" though? I just logged on, and, whaddya know, the most played class is Minstrel. Totally the brink of extinction!
Mon 1 Feb 2021 6:06 PM by Ele
dagnes wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:59 PM
Ele wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:24 PM
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:06 PM
- style snares that are not follow up styles will now have a 10 second duration + base weapon speed, values subject to change
- follow up style snares will now have a 13 second duration + 2x base weapon speed, values subject to change

I'm a bit at a loss with these change. The last few patches were aimed at improving/balancing caster groups across the realms. The length of a snare is only interesting for a caster groups peeler, as in tanker groups the melees tend to stick/snare their targets down, so the duration of the snare itself doesn't matter. For caster groups, shorter snares result in more work for the peeler and shorter windows of opportunity for nuking/ccing. Is this the intention of the change, or just a side effect, or did I get it wrong completely?

peel is imoportant in every group. If the tanks can reach the healers they loose too. So its important in every setup.

Fair point that all setups benefit from peels, but caster groups specifically rely on it for getting range. So while the change has an impact on all setups, caster groups get more complicated with this change, and it honestly didn't feel like caster groups were over the top after the last buffs/adjustments. So I still wish to understand what issue these snare changes are adressing.
Mon 1 Feb 2021 6:10 PM by Sek
Fiatil wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:59 PM
Sek wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:54 PM
Pingyongyang wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:46 PM
Nope still nerf Minstrel pet to yellow.

Minstrel is already on the brink of extinction, this would force player to quit playing minstrel once for all.
Your need to see Minstrel class even more nerfed is led by selfish reasons, this is sad.

Come on, the "brink of extinction" though? I just logged on, and, whaddya know, the most played class is Minstrel. Totally the brink of extinction!

This is a solo oriented class with high speed, most do not seek competitive encounters, only to reach some location as fast as possible to farm some rps.
It is still a funny class to play with when played right, doesn't necessary mean the class itself hasn't been widely nerfed past the years.
Being neutral and objective would be appreciated regarding this class.
Mon 1 Feb 2021 6:12 PM by Noashakra
Fiatil wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:59 PM
Sek wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:54 PM
Pingyongyang wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:46 PM
Nope still nerf Minstrel pet to yellow.

Minstrel is already on the brink of extinction, this would force player to quit playing minstrel once for all.
Your need to see Minstrel class even more nerfed is led by selfish reasons, this is sad.

Come on, the "brink of extinction" though? I just logged on, and, whaddya know, the most played class is Minstrel. Totally the brink of extinction!

Why do you reply to obvious trolls?
Mon 1 Feb 2021 6:13 PM by Fiatil
Noashakra wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 6:12 PM
Fiatil wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:59 PM
Sek wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:54 PM
Pingyongyang wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:46 PM
Nope still nerf Minstrel pet to yellow.

Minstrel is already on the brink of extinction, this would force player to quit playing minstrel once for all.
Your need to see Minstrel class even more nerfed is led by selfish reasons, this is sad.

Come on, the "brink of extinction" though? I just logged on, and, whaddya know, the most played class is Minstrel. Totally the brink of extinction!

Why do you reply to obvious trolls?

Low hanging fruit is fun sometimes! Plus his response is just him admitting everyone plays them because they're ridiculously OP solo, which I like.
Mon 1 Feb 2021 6:14 PM by Sek
Fiatil wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:59 PM
Sek wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:54 PM
Pingyongyang wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 5:46 PM
Nope still nerf Minstrel pet to yellow.

Minstrel is already on the brink of extinction, this would force player to quit playing minstrel once for all.
Your need to see Minstrel class even more nerfed is led by selfish reasons, this is sad.

Come on, the "brink of extinction" though? I just logged on, and, whaddya know, the most played class is Minstrel. Totally the brink of extinction!

This is a solo oriented class with high speed, most do not seek competitive encounters, only to reach some location as fast as possible to farm some rps.
It is still a funny class to play with when played right, doesn't necessary mean the class itself hasn't been widely nerfed over the years.
Minstrel has always been the less appreciated class from Mid/Hib, nothing new about that but being neutral and objective toward what that class is supposed to do and what it has become would be appreciated.
Mon 1 Feb 2021 6:25 PM by Cash
Overall, these changes seem fine. Mentalist has been getting more love than anyone lately so I don't understand the complaints. Minstrel having the highest pet is class appropriate and balanced now that they can't charm purple badgers anymore.

I didn't see SM debuff raised so I certainly hope that is included since the spirit train was supposed to be the new alternative for mid casters being viable.

The one thing that sure as hell better not happen is the melee snare change. Snare duration is the primary advantage of the hammer line. Arms get low duration anytime... hibs get support with snares... mid gets long duration and 1h shield tank snares... it is balanced in a unique intentional way...

Overall I like the balance changes that have been made over time... good work... and thanks for keeping the fights fresh without totally destroying the balance
Tue 2 Feb 2021 7:18 AM by Sepplord
Sek wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 6:14 PM
being neutral and objective toward what that class is supposed to do and what it has become would be appreciated.
Which is quite ironic after you just got called out for claiming the class is on the brink of extinction...just to then move the goalpost and explain how the class is very populated because of "reasons" that are unrelated to it's strength . Noone has denied the minstrels was nerfed but mentioning it can't hurt can it?

Being neutral and objective goes both ways.
Tue 2 Feb 2021 12:00 PM by Sek
Sepplord wrote:
Tue 2 Feb 2021 7:18 AM
Sek wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 6:14 PM
being neutral and objective toward what that class is supposed to do and what it has become would be appreciated.
Which is quite ironic after you just got called out for claiming the class is on the brink of extinction...just to then move the goalpost and explain how the class is very populated because of "reasons" that are unrelated to it's strength . Noone has denied the minstrels was nerfed but mentioning it can't hurt can it?

Being neutral and objective goes both ways.

I am no sure you guys are there to debate... you mostly troll to fulfill your spare time.. Yes Minstrel nerf wise on the brink of extinction while minstrel demography is nearly the same.. I am counting enlightened player or the least those caring about their class rather than coastguarding BG running around .
You are not only mentioning it, you are feeding people's fears and worries toward Minstrel itself like if you guys were part of the solo encounter brotherhood on Phoenix which seems unlikely there.. let's be realistic.
Devs made sure every class were provided with extra tools/content while Minstrel was the only class nerfed down heavily to respond to wide casual player community.
I played solo up to 8v8 on uthgard 1.0 / genesis pretty much everything but minstrel and i disliked that class nearly as much as you do yet i didn't spend much time to complain about it through forum to serve my interest, i tolerate the difference and while doing so i am doing my best to exploit its weaknesses, this is daoc.
Tue 2 Feb 2021 12:10 PM by gruenesschaf
Initial post updated.

Changed from the initial version:
Removed for mentalist: the pet charm pulse is now mentalism baseline, however, you can never charm mobs higher than your own level.
Instead the extra resist chance for higher pet levels in case of very low charm spec has been removed, this should make green pets commonly charmable while allowing high rr menta mentas to also charm high blue / low yellow ones.

Casted resist debuff values have been changed:
- the blue debuffs return to 15%
- the yellow debuffs return to 30%
- red debuffs become realm specific:
-- albion: heat, matter, cold, spirit, energy -> 50%, body: 40%
-- midgard: heat, matter, energy -> 50%, cold, spirit, body: 45%
-- hibernia: 50%
Tue 2 Feb 2021 12:37 PM by Sepplord
Sek wrote:
Tue 2 Feb 2021 12:00 PM
I am no sure you guys are there to debate... you mostly troll to fulfill your spare time..

You get called out for being hypocricitical, and that makes me a troll?
Your comment would have been better for the discussion if you had foregone to start with that ad hominem.

Sek wrote:
Tue 2 Feb 2021 12:00 PM
You are not only mentioning it, you are feeding people's fears and worries toward Minstrel itself like if you guys were part of the solo encounter brotherhood on Phoenix which seems unlikely there.. let's be realistic.
Uhh...you mentioned it not me
i didn't feed any fears at all


Sek wrote:
Tue 2 Feb 2021 12:00 PM
Devs made sure every class were provided with extra tools/content while Minstrel was the only class nerfed down heavily to respond to wide casual player community.
What about animists? Or bonedancers? Archers?
And the list of classes that got "extra tools/content" is pretty short.
All that comment does is confirm that you are very biased

Sek wrote:
Tue 2 Feb 2021 12:00 PM
I played solo up to 8v8 on uthgard 1.0 / genesis pretty much everything but minstrel and i disliked that class nearly as much as you do yet i didn't spend much time to complain about it through forum to serve my interest, i tolerate the difference and while doing so i am doing my best to exploit its weaknesses, this is daoc.
I didn't even say i dislike minstrel?
You claim tolerance, but don't even tolerate someone criticizing your arguments without making emotional assumptions?


And no, this post doesn't prove i am trolling you. It's intention is the opposite. I hope you are able to recognize that
Tue 2 Feb 2021 12:48 PM by DJ2000
gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 2 Feb 2021 12:10 PM
Initial post updated.

Changed from the initial version:
Removed for mentalist: the pet charm pulse is now mentalism baseline, however, you can never charm mobs higher than your own level.
Instead the extra resist chance for higher pet levels in case of very low charm spec has been removed, this should make green pets commonly charmable while allowing high rr menta mentas to also charm high blue / low yellow ones.
With "low charm spec" you mean the standard 28 Mentalism spec, right?
28+11 = 39 which is still green and after that the RR to up the lvl.
39 +7 (RR8) = 46 which would be high blue. <-- correction, 46 is low yellow. so RR8 for yellow pet i guess.


IMHO a RR5+ Mentalist should be able to have a yellow pet, ...
(...while a RR10+ should be able to get a low OJ. But OJs are out of the question with the new lvl50 Limit.)
Tue 2 Feb 2021 1:02 PM by easytoremember
DJ2000 wrote:
Tue 2 Feb 2021 12:48 PM
With "low charm spec" you mean the standard 28 Mentalism spec, right?
28+11 = 39 which is still green and after that the RR to up the lvl.
39 +7 (RR8) = 46 which would be high blue.
Are "low yellow ones" considered lvl 49-50 ?

IMHO a RR5+ Mentalist should be able to have a yellow pet, ...
(...while a RR10+ should be able to get a low OJ. But OJs are out of the question with the new lvl50 Limit.)

35- grey
36-40 green
41-45 blue
46-50 yellow
51-55 orange
56-60 red
61+ purple
Tue 2 Feb 2021 1:16 PM by DJ2000
easytoremember wrote:
Tue 2 Feb 2021 1:02 PM
35- grey
36-40 green
41-45 blue
46-50 yellow
51-55 orange
56-60 red
61+ purple
Oh, yeah. 46 is low yellow.
Yes, you are right.
Tue 2 Feb 2021 1:27 PM by Duvodas
dagnes wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 10:27 AM
I think a follow up snare should be more rewarding!

for example. you hit someone with a backsnare with 2h its like 10 + 5.5delay =15.5sec snare
Use a followupstyle with an 1h (3sec delay) you have like 10 + 3+ 3 = 16sec snare. OnTop for Example the alb thrust combo you have to put 44 points in to thrust, which are very high points [...]

+1

Don't equal the snares too much. A 44 spec follow up snare (alb thrust) has to be much better than a 10 spec opener (hib blade), not just by 3-5s.
Tue 2 Feb 2021 1:47 PM by Sepplord
Duvodas wrote:
Tue 2 Feb 2021 1:27 PM
dagnes wrote:
Mon 1 Feb 2021 10:27 AM
I think a follow up snare should be more rewarding!

for example. you hit someone with a backsnare with 2h its like 10 + 5.5delay =15.5sec snare
Use a followupstyle with an 1h (3sec delay) you have like 10 + 3+ 3 = 16sec snare. OnTop for Example the alb thrust combo you have to put 44 points in to thrust, which are very high points [...]

+1

Don't equal the snares too much. A 44 spec follow up snare (alb thrust) has to be much better than a 10 spec opener (hib blade), not just by 3-5s.

I agree and want to add that you also cannot "just" look at positions of styles in a speccline and adjust their power accordingly. You also have consider classes that have the speccline, their speccpoints, the "package" they can get in different speccs and what the rest of the specline has to offer.
I might be wrong, but afaik midgard only (mostly) speccs hammer because of the snares, while everything else is underwhelming compared to what other speclines offer. If you then equalize the snares, what leaves that hammers at? (just an example, i might be wrong about the rest of hammers, i'm no melee expert, but i hope the point is understandable)
Tue 2 Feb 2021 2:07 PM by lampstandTDP
gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 2 Feb 2021 12:10 PM
Initial post updated.

Changed from the initial version:
Removed for mentalist: the pet charm pulse is now mentalism baseline, however, you can never charm mobs higher than your own level.
Instead the extra resist chance for higher pet levels in case of very low charm spec has been removed, this should make green pets commonly charmable while allowing high rr menta mentas to also charm high blue / low yellow ones.


It is still not clear but it looks like you are planning to remove charm from the Light Spec... PLEASE DON'T

This is an interesting and a spec/class defining mechanic. I don't want to get negative but compare Light/Menta vs Body/Sorc or Hybrid/Sorc
> Menta/LIGHT spec is simple but fun... and pet centric
> It currently lacks depth and tbh I would love to see some little extra in its toolkit (without power-creep)...
...perhaps something like some pet only buffs, to give it more survivability/utility once charmed or something else fitting with it's theme.
> As mentioned before in this thread, removing the ramping power costs for higher level charms would be a welcome change also!

Please do not destroy an spec defining ability which has been in since day one and why is there need to? Adding an additional charm to the baseline would not be a buff for Light spec as you'd use the spec charm anyway.
Tue 2 Feb 2021 3:06 PM by Sepplord
lampstandTDP wrote:
Tue 2 Feb 2021 2:07 PM
gruenesschaf wrote:
Tue 2 Feb 2021 12:10 PM
Initial post updated.

Changed from the initial version:
Removed for mentalist: the pet charm pulse is now mentalism baseline, however, you can never charm mobs higher than your own level.
Instead the extra resist chance for higher pet levels in case of very low charm spec has been removed, this should make green pets commonly charmable while allowing high rr menta mentas to also charm high blue / low yellow ones.


It is still not clear but it looks like you are planning to remove charm from the Light Spec... PLEASE DON'T

This is an interesting a spec/class defining mechanic. I don't want to get negative but compare Light/Menta vs Body/Sorc or Hybrid/Sorc
> Menta/LIGHT spec is simple but fun... and pet centric
> It currently lacks depth and tbh I would love to see some little extra in its toolkit (without power-creep)...
...perhaps something like some pet only buffs, to give it more suitability/utility once charmed or something else fitting with it's theme.
> As mentioned before in this thread, removing the ramping power costs for higher level charms would be a welcome change also!

Please do not destroy an spec defining ability which has been in since day one and why is there need to? Adding an additional charm to the baseline would not be a buff for Light spec as you'd use the spec charm anyway.

The "moving to mentalism baseline" is removed, instead they have decided to make it usable without speccing high into the charm (aka penalty for low specc removed). So if you spec light nothing changes much.
If you DON'T specc light, you will have a low charm, but since resistratepenalty is removed you can still charm reasonably high mobs (up to low yellow as high RR menta)

At least that's how i am reading the recent change
Tue 2 Feb 2021 5:14 PM by byron
Since AoM has been reverted back to old values (and debuff values are quite the same as before a part for body in Albion) , is a free realm respec planned ? Not much sense of using it if you are not high realm rank to reach AoM9 after Purge and Determination.

PS: Dark age of Caster-lot is quite annoying: all the damage dealers are casters in the first 20 positions (with only one from Midgard) a part a NS and a Ranger (solo classes)

https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/realmpoints?time-frame=last-week
Tue 2 Feb 2021 7:30 PM by Tool73
baselinestun now with 50% heat debuff, what a joke....
Tue 2 Feb 2021 9:21 PM by cmckenzie1452
I would suggest keeping the charm in light, but move to baseline, if your intention is to remove the spec component. Allow for better pets with higher light spec, and lower pets with low or no points in light. Basically, the same as what's happening with mentalism charm, but in the original light spec. Light ments will be a colossal joke in 8v8 without a yellow pet, but this could fix that, while maintaining the desired effect of no spec component to charm. Mentalism line seems like the wrong choice.
Wed 3 Feb 2021 6:36 PM by Noashakra
Tool73 wrote:
Tue 2 Feb 2021 7:30 PM
baselinestun now with 50% heat debuff, what a joke....

What? It was always the case! People complain about something they changed 1 month ago and was put back to its orginal value?
Wed 3 Feb 2021 10:34 PM by Astaa
Quick question, why change LW side style (Hibernian Force) to snare when there is already a frontal snare (Frontal Assault)?
Thu 4 Feb 2021 10:38 AM by Simon73
Astaa wrote:
Wed 3 Feb 2021 10:34 PM
Quick question, why change LW side style (Hibernian Force) to snare when there is already a frontal snare (Frontal Assault)?

Mmmm why give merc back snare when they allready a side snare? Same logic
Fri 5 Feb 2021 3:31 PM by Bry
Tool73 wrote:
Tue 2 Feb 2021 7:30 PM
baselinestun now with 50% heat debuff, what a joke....

Baseline root with 40% body debuff. ---see, it works on all realms. debuff root > debuff stun btw. also, all realms get baseline stun. QQ
Fri 5 Feb 2021 6:30 PM by Astaa
Simon73 wrote:
Thu 4 Feb 2021 10:38 AM
Astaa wrote:
Wed 3 Feb 2021 10:34 PM
Quick question, why change LW side style (Hibernian Force) to snare when there is already a frontal snare (Frontal Assault)?

Mmmm why give merc back snare when they allready a side snare? Same logic

Not really...no. People specced 10 blades for side snare, which was fine.
Sat 6 Feb 2021 6:37 PM by daytonchambers
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:06 PM
Changed from the initial version:
Removed for mentalist: the pet charm pulse is now mentalism baseline, however, you can never charm mobs higher than your own level.
Instead the extra resist chance for higher pet levels in case of very low charm spec has been removed, this should make green pets commonly charmable while allowing high rr menta mentas to also charm high blue / low yellow ones.


So basically the nerf they added to low light spec charm when they added the damage debuff and all the other junk has been removed, and a low light spec can charm greens again like they were always able to in the first place before all these changes.

At least this confirms my suspicion that they stealth nerfed the Light charm during the changes
Sun 7 Feb 2021 12:17 AM by gotwqqd
daytonchambers wrote:
Sat 6 Feb 2021 6:37 PM
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:06 PM
Changed from the initial version:
Removed for mentalist: the pet charm pulse is now mentalism baseline, however, you can never charm mobs higher than your own level.
Instead the extra resist chance for higher pet levels in case of very low charm spec has been removed, this should make green pets commonly charmable while allowing high rr menta mentas to also charm high blue / low yellow ones.


So basically the nerf they added to low light spec charm when they added the damage debuff and all the other junk has been removed, and a low light spec can charm greens again like they were always able to in the first place before all these changes.

At least this confirms my suspicion that they stealth nerfed the Light charm during the changes
I don’t know if this reduced the light mentalist pet level
It seems it opens up other spec lines to have better pets
Tue 9 Feb 2021 12:22 AM by skipari
[21:01:05] You wield arcanium exceptional great hammer in both hands.
[21:01:05] You feel more vulnerable to cold!
[21:01:05] Your Cold resistance has decreased.
[21:01:05] You feel more vulnerable to heat!
[21:01:05] Your Heat resistance has decreased.
[21:01:05] You feel more vulnerable to matter magic!
[21:01:05] Your Matter resistance has decreased.
[21:01:05] Nuurwar casts a spell!
[21:01:06] Kilandra hits your leg for 57 (-34) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1280)
[21:01:06] Kilandra does 2 extra damage to you!
[21:01:06] Kilandra hits you for 2 damage!
[21:01:06] You seem weaker!
[21:01:06] Your Strength has decreased.
Your Constitution has decreased.
[21:01:06] Calunoz hits you for 403 (-30) damage!
[21:01:06] Your Strength has decreased.
[21:01:06] Ulfrak was just killed by Monikk in Emain Macha.
[21:01:07] Crrimi casts a spell!
[21:01:07] You resist the effect! (Resist Chance: 10.00%)
[21:01:07] Tommyboy was just killed by Kolox in Breifine.
[21:01:07] Calunoz hits you for 404 (-30) damage!
[21:01:07] Kilandra hits your torso for 285 (-85) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1799)
[21:01:07] Kilandra does 4 extra damage to you!
[21:01:07] Kilandra hits you for 4 damage!
[21:01:07] Your movement is slowed!
[21:01:08] Drallo hits your arm for 549 (-10) damage!
[21:01:08] Your movement returns to normal.
[21:01:08] Drallo hits you for 566 (-11) damage!
[21:01:08] The superior nature spirit attacks you and misses! (Miss Chance: 24.50%)
[21:01:08] Crrimi casts a spell!
[21:01:08] Crrimi hits you for 530 (-39) damage!

yeh, good decision to revert the debuff/aom. I love to watch the fight after 3s as a 3k full tank.
Tue 9 Feb 2021 2:22 AM by daytonchambers
gotwqqd wrote:
Sun 7 Feb 2021 12:17 AM
daytonchambers wrote:
Sat 6 Feb 2021 6:37 PM
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:06 PM
Changed from the initial version:
Removed for mentalist: the pet charm pulse is now mentalism baseline, however, you can never charm mobs higher than your own level.
Instead the extra resist chance for higher pet levels in case of very low charm spec has been removed, this should make green pets commonly charmable while allowing high rr menta mentas to also charm high blue / low yellow ones.


So basically the nerf they added to low light spec charm when they added the damage debuff and all the other junk has been removed, and a low light spec can charm greens again like they were always able to in the first place before all these changes.

At least this confirms my suspicion that they stealth nerfed the Light charm during the changes
I don’t know if this reduced the light mentalist pet level
It seems it opens up other spec lines to have better pets

It's not opening anything new, unless you have only played mentalist for a month. Low light spec ments were always able to charm greens and have been able to for the entire 20 years that the game has been around.

That got stealth nerfed a month ago, when they gave the class Nearsight and the resist debuff. Three months ago, on this server, I was running green pets with 4+15 light spec. Then the nerf was applied and that ability went away. Which is why they introduced all those gray humanoids in Emain.

Now that nerf has been reverted and presented as some sort of new ability, which is simply not the case.
Tue 9 Feb 2021 6:17 AM by ExcretusMaximus
daytonchambers wrote:
Tue 9 Feb 2021 2:22 AM
It's not opening anything new, unless you have only played mentalist for a month. Low light spec ments were always able to charm greens and have been able to for the entire 20 years that the game has been around.

That got stealth nerfed a month ago, when they gave the class Nearsight and the resist debuff. Three months ago, on this server, I was running green pets with 4+15 light spec. Then the nerf was applied and that ability went away. Which is why they introduced all those gray humanoids in Emain.

Now that nerf has been reverted and presented as some sort of new ability, which is simply not the case.

You're inferring malice where none is implied. The code of this game was cobbled together by a team that didn't understand the engine they licensed and then added on by 20 years of programmers. Ever coded before? Shit breaks. All. The. Time. How about a little benefit of the doubt since they fixed it within a week? Why is it automatically "they hate Mentalists (which is why they're buffing the shit out of them, obviously), so they clearly nerfed them without telling us!"?
Tue 9 Feb 2021 10:18 AM by MeatBicycle
skipari wrote:
Tue 9 Feb 2021 12:22 AM
[21:01:05] You wield arcanium exceptional great hammer in both hands.
[21:01:05] You feel more vulnerable to cold!
[21:01:05] Your Cold resistance has decreased.
[21:01:05] You feel more vulnerable to heat!
[21:01:05] Your Heat resistance has decreased.
[21:01:05] You feel more vulnerable to matter magic!
[21:01:05] Your Matter resistance has decreased.
[21:01:05] Nuurwar casts a spell!
[21:01:06] Kilandra hits your leg for 57 (-34) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1280)
[21:01:06] Kilandra does 2 extra damage to you!
[21:01:06] Kilandra hits you for 2 damage!
[21:01:06] You seem weaker!
[21:01:06] Your Strength has decreased.
Your Constitution has decreased.
[21:01:06] Calunoz hits you for 403 (-30) damage!
[21:01:06] Your Strength has decreased.
[21:01:06] Ulfrak was just killed by Monikk in Emain Macha.
[21:01:07] Crrimi casts a spell!
[21:01:07] You resist the effect! (Resist Chance: 10.00%)
[21:01:07] Tommyboy was just killed by Kolox in Breifine.
[21:01:07] Calunoz hits you for 404 (-30) damage!
[21:01:07] Kilandra hits your torso for 285 (-85) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1799)
[21:01:07] Kilandra does 4 extra damage to you!
[21:01:07] Kilandra hits you for 4 damage!
[21:01:07] Your movement is slowed!
[21:01:08] Drallo hits your arm for 549 (-10) damage!
[21:01:08] Your movement returns to normal.
[21:01:08] Drallo hits you for 566 (-11) damage!
[21:01:08] The superior nature spirit attacks you and misses! (Miss Chance: 24.50%)
[21:01:08] Crrimi casts a spell!
[21:01:08] Crrimi hits you for 530 (-39) damage!

yeh, good decision to revert the debuff/aom. I love to watch the fight after 3s as a 3k full tank.

I don't get that either. Casters have so much Dmg, Utility and Range here. Meanwhile you can snare melees for days and even outheal a melee assist while healing is almost useless against a debuff nuke assist.

@gruenesschaf still waiting for a response to my post on page 5. There are some details why almost nobody wants to zerg in mid.
Tue 9 Feb 2021 10:55 AM by poplik
lmao I find it hilarious that someone implies they are stealth nerfing mentalist, it's one of the most busted classes right now thanks to the custom buffs.
Wed 10 Feb 2021 8:27 AM by Sepplord
Getting a triple-resi debuff and Nearsight is clearly a nerf, how else could that be interpreted
having too many options and things to do in a fight quickly overwhelms the decisionmaking and the class becomes too hard to play
Wed 10 Feb 2021 10:01 AM by byron
MeatBicycle wrote:
Tue 9 Feb 2021 10:18 AM
I don't get that either. Casters have so much Dmg, Utility and Range here. Meanwhile you can snare melees for days and even outheal a melee assist while healing is almost useless against a debuff nuke assist.

I don't get it too. I'm a player in a free shard so I don't want to blame all the things, I'm thankful to the GMs, Mods, etcc that are running this server for all of us. But I would like to know their current vision on classes and if they consider that casters and tanks are balanced. It seems to me that tank classes are quite inferior to casters in all the aspects, just two stupid example that I found when I play(ed) my zerk :

- damage: the debuff mechanism give casters a lot of damage while there isn't any slash/thrust/crush debuff. So any player will have at least 26% on these resists (slash/thrust/crush) while, with casted debuff, all the other resists are near the 0 (sometime a little higher and sometime also below)... as a zerk with 3000hp it means that I'm dead in very few seconds. Then a caster can spend RAs points to increase his damage just after purge and maybe some unique RAs (like tfw, icore, etc..). A Tank needs to take purge and at least determination 9. So a tank can invest on his damage only after reaching quite high rank, if he needs also AoM (just to have a poor 20% secondary resists) a zerk, for example, needs to be 8L1 to start to think to increase the damage.
- Endurance : a caster needs just the blue potion and he can sprint forever, a tank needs higher endurance since he needs to sprint and perform also styles. With celerity also a red end regen ends very quickly (sprint + styles) so , when endurance ends, the damage is very low without the possibility to perform any style. Then in Albion this mechanism means that the paladin can be forgotten in the relic town and another damage dealer (caster) can be grouped to increase damage while Bards and Shamans are necessary in any group (buffs, CCs, speed....). I think that how endurance potion works in the frontiers needs to be tuned and changed, it gives too much advantage to casters, especially in Albion.
Wed 10 Feb 2021 10:06 AM by Astaa
Dark Age of Castalot.
Fri 12 Feb 2021 1:05 AM by daytonchambers
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Tue 9 Feb 2021 6:17 AM
daytonchambers wrote:
Tue 9 Feb 2021 2:22 AM
It's not opening anything new, unless you have only played mentalist for a month. Low light spec ments were always able to charm greens and have been able to for the entire 20 years that the game has been around.

That got stealth nerfed a month ago, when they gave the class Nearsight and the resist debuff. Three months ago, on this server, I was running green pets with 4+15 light spec. Then the nerf was applied and that ability went away. Which is why they introduced all those gray humanoids in Emain.

Now that nerf has been reverted and presented as some sort of new ability, which is simply not the case.

You're inferring malice where none is implied. The code of this game was cobbled together by a team that didn't understand the engine they licensed and then added on by 20 years of programmers. Ever coded before? Shit breaks. All. The. Time. How about a little benefit of the doubt since they fixed it within a week? Why is it automatically "they hate Mentalists (which is why they're buffing the shit out of them, obviously), so they clearly nerfed them without telling us!"?

poplik wrote: lmao I find it hilarious that someone implies they are stealth nerfing mentalist, it's one of the most busted classes right now thanks to the custom buffs.

First off... never said they hated ments. Those are your words, not mine. Second... adjusting the pet charm levels was likely done to tone down the class when these buffs were added so that it wasn't so over-the-top. Third.. As an automation engineer by trade I HAVE indeed coded before, and am well aware of the fact that, as you put it, shit breaks. All the time.

But as the OP states:

"Instead the extra resist chance for higher pet levels in case of very low charm spec has been removed, this should make green pets commonly charmable while allowing high rr menta mentas to also charm high blue / low yellow ones."

This clearly states that the extra resist chance for higher pet levels in case of very low charm spec has been removed which implies that extra resist chance was added. Which is 100% the case, and which I tested for hours to determine charm levels vs pet levels in the attempt to secure the highest green con pet possible with the lowest spec investment. This was done when the first changes were added with the resist debuff and nearsight, as I said before. It's a moot point now that it's gone, but presenting a decades-old mechanic as a new feature isn't.

P.S. Poplik..... learn to ******* read.

(Edited by GM)
Fri 12 Feb 2021 7:45 AM by Sepplord
daytonchambers wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 1:05 AM
This clearly states that the extra resist chance for higher pet levels in case of very low charm spec has been removed which implies that extra resist chance was added.
To be precise, it only implies that the extra resist chance existed, not that it was added as a custom change.
That doesn't invalidate your testing (and it sounds you found that it was a custom change right?) but for anyone else it doesn't read like that

Have you posted your testing results somewhere?
How did charming change in the first big Menta patch?
Sat 13 Feb 2021 12:53 AM by daytonchambers
Sepplord wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 7:45 AM
daytonchambers wrote:
Fri 12 Feb 2021 1:05 AM
This clearly states that the extra resist chance for higher pet levels in case of very low charm spec has been removed which implies that extra resist chance was added.
To be precise, it only implies that the extra resist chance existed, not that it was added as a custom change.
That doesn't invalidate your testing (and it sounds you found that it was a custom change right?) but for anyone else it doesn't read like that

Have you posted your testing results somewhere?
How did charming change in the first big Menta patch?

Prior to the patch that consolidated the resists and added Nearsight to the class the resist levels for pets increased gradually, about 2% per level of pet. This let you have a wide range of pet charming options with the resist for said charm increasing on a gradual yet linear scale more or less.

Once the patch was added the resists for low level pets went from 1% resist to 60% resist within 5 pet levels. That is a DRAMATIC change, and makes choosing a higher level pet a non-option since the resist rate went from a nothing-burger right to 60%+ which means constant charm breaks. The fact that Humanoid mobs were conveniently added to Emain that just so happened to be the same level as the new cap screams that this adjustment to the pet charm mechanics was intentional.

IF I had to guess why the change was done to pet charm I'd say it was to have Mentalists choose between Light spec and awesome pet, or Mana/Ment spec with a pet that was all but useless. Prior to the changes having a Mana Ment with a green-blue pet was no big deal, but add a reliable baseline DD, nearsight, resist debuffs etc and the class got way overtuned way too fast. And I say this as a mentalist player.

P.S. The reason I know about the mechanics is that it's one of the first things I tested on this server, due to the fact that Uthgard had horrible pet charm implementation which was nothing like live. Multiple notable mentalist players from Phoenix used to play Uthgard and were quite vocal during the beta testing and live behavior of the pet charm mechanics, myself included. So I was pleasantly surprised when I started on Phoenix which originally had charm behavior much more like Vanilla back in the day. Up until a month ago that is.

As I said tho in a previous post, it's kind of a moot point now that the issue has been reverted.
Sat 13 Feb 2021 6:31 PM by lampstandTDP
daytonchambers wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 12:53 AM
... mentalists choose between Light spec and awesome pet, or Mana/Ment spec with a pet that was all but useless. Prior to the changes having a Mana Ment with a green-blue pet was no big deal, but add a reliable baseline DD, nearsight, resist debuffs etc and the class got way overtuned way too fast. And I say this as a mentalist player. ...

I wholeheartedly agree that any changes have to be made very sympathetically and carefully not to cause power creep. Being fairly new to Phoenix (enjoying it very much) I can appreciate custom changes will always be a minefield of trying to bring balance while not changing things up too much from how things were on live servers, managing expectations and trying to make classes/specs/realms viable, engaging and most of all balanced. Trying to keep the spirit and mechanics of a classic (inspired) server and not driving players away with custom changes not being so inflexible about changes and doing the same ;]

The gold standard ofc being classes/specs with tool-kits and abilities that synergise well with themselves and complementary classes, making them fun bit not OP. I can dream right?!

The mentalist's spell list has always puzzled me, as it looks like a hot mess and made even common spec choices feel a bit janky; such as why is the base DoT and spec DoT in different lines?

The recent changes have certainly helped towards addressing some of these problems, especially the lack of the reliable base-DD for mana-spec as you mentioned. The overall spell list still seems a bit jumbled. I have been thinking about this during the week but but work has been busy and I have not had time to comment here...

Starting to type them out, they need some polish as post is already long and TL;DR is a thing! I will add them later all being well.
Sat 13 Feb 2021 6:45 PM by lampstandTDP
daytonchambers wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 12:53 AM
P.S. The reason I know about the mechanics is that it's one of the first things I tested on this server, due to the fact that Uthgard had horrible pet charm implementation which was nothing like live. Multiple notable mentalist players from Phoenix used to play Uthgard and were quite vocal during the beta testing and live behavior of the pet charm mechanics, myself included. So I was pleasantly surprised when I started on Phoenix which originally had charm behavior much more like Vanilla back in the day. Up until a month ago that is.


My understanding that the charm mob level is calculated by...

[(Level * 2) / 3] + [composite light spec / 3]

Is this correct or is there more to it?
Sun 14 Feb 2021 4:24 AM by daytonchambers
lampstandTDP wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 6:45 PM
daytonchambers wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 12:53 AM
P.S. The reason I know about the mechanics is that it's one of the first things I tested on this server, due to the fact that Uthgard had horrible pet charm implementation which was nothing like live. Multiple notable mentalist players from Phoenix used to play Uthgard and were quite vocal during the beta testing and live behavior of the pet charm mechanics, myself included. So I was pleasantly surprised when I started on Phoenix which originally had charm behavior much more like Vanilla back in the day. Up until a month ago that is.


My understanding that the charm mob level is calculated by...

[(Level * 2) / 3] + [composite light spec / 3]

Is this correct or is there more to it?

"The established and tested formula to determine what mob you can safely charm is: Charm Level = (Mentalist Level X .66) + ((Light Spec + Spec Modifier) X .33)"

This was pulled right from the Gaheris board from over a decade ago. That said, I have NO IDEA if this is what they implemented on Phoenix. All I do know is that the charm behavior here feels very accurate to what I recall from live (as of this writing)

Gaheris board post with formula:
https://gaheris.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=60
Sun 14 Feb 2021 11:35 AM by lampstandTDP
daytonchambers wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 4:24 AM
"The established and tested formula to determine what mob you can safely charm is: Charm Level = (Mentalist Level X .66) + ((Light Spec + Spec Modifier) X .33)"

This was pulled right from the Gaheris board from over a decade ago. That said, I have NO IDEA if this is what they implemented on Phoenix. All I do know is that the charm behavior here feels very accurate to what I recall from live (as of this writing)

Gaheris board post with formula:
https://gaheris.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=60

Awesome so yes, same formula just you presented it better than I did :]

So it seems the mana-menta/charm behavior has been fiddled with and under-tuned a little...

From my testing so far (not extensive) it looks like it has been modified to be

Charm Level = (Mana-spec (only) Level X .66) + ((Light Spec + Spec Modifier) X .33)"[/i]

At RR6 (4L/46M/28M) I start to see resists rates of pulses ramping up above L35 mobs

0.66.(46) + 0.33.(4+16) = 35

Charmed (con) - % pulse resists

L35 (gray) - 1%
L36 (green) - 9%

L39 (green) - 15%

L43 (blue) - 33%

L46 (blue) - 38%

i.e. can't reliably hold onto a pet much above L40/41 (green) at RR6 without often being knocked out of speed / interrupted



If done on the proper formula, resists should not start kicking in until L40 (blue), so at a push L42/44 should be OK to charm without too many problems

0.66.(50) + 0.33.(4+16) = 40


...and at RR12 L46 (low yellow = Grogan) should be just about reachable

0.66.(50) + 0.33.(4+22) = 42


i.e. as it should be / described in this thread :/
Sun 14 Feb 2021 12:00 PM by DJ2000
lampstandTDP wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 11:35 AM
daytonchambers wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 4:24 AM
Charm Level = (Mentalist Level X .66) + ((Light Spec + Spec Modifier) X .33)


Charm Level = (Mana-spec (only) Level X .66) + ((Light Spec + Spec Modifier) X .33)


Mentalist Level, not mana spec. I tested it, mana spec has no influence on the resist rates.
Otherwise, you are correct. That is the formula (rule-of-thumb) that was believed to be correct, but i believe the phoenix dev-team tinkered with it (more than once).
Sun 14 Feb 2021 6:33 PM by lampstandTDP
DJ2000 wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 12:00 PM
Mentalist Level, not mana spec. I tested it, mana spec has no influence on the resist rates.
Otherwise, you are correct. That is the formula (rule-of-thumb) that was believed to be correct, but i believe the phoenix dev-team tinkered with it (more than once).

I didn't have any re-spec stones to hand, as the maths fitted perfectly made and assumption... my bad. Thanks for letting me know that you tested it.

In that case someone has put their thumb on the scales, it has been artificially lowered...

the lower con pets die to fast, charming higher cons with more charm drops becomes more of a liability than useful.


I guess we will have to wait and see how the changes/balance settle but I hope the Devs are willing to consider reverting to the original formula for QoL
Sun 14 Feb 2021 6:50 PM by DJ2000
lampstandTDP wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 11:35 AM
L35 (gray) - 1%
L36 (green) - 9%
L39 (green) - 15%
L43 (blue) - 33%
L46 (blue) - 38%
maybe not 100% accurate, as i dont find my notes, but with 10+17/18 Light (24 Mana, 47 Mentalism)

L41 (blue) - 17% (never broke speed in 2h)
L44 (blue) - 29% (did break Speed once in 1h)
L50 (yell) - 62% (uncontrollable)
L52 (oj) - 77% (yikes)

My ment is currently 17 Light / 24 Mana / 45 Mentalism. Would have to test on the same NPCs again to check for differences/variations.
Sun 14 Feb 2021 6:51 PM by Tyrlaan
I tested it in between, a Mana/Menta Mentalist with single-digit Light could not hold the lowest NF curmudgeons (humanoids).

The introduction of the low levels pets (nicely fitting humanoid and animal types) coupled with the 2nd change to the formula suggest that they want every of those FOTM Mentalists to have a way to CC purge themselves. They are easy to pick up at either Emain or EV, cost no power worth speaking and would die easily if used for interrupts. They also don´t hurt when they remove mezz or root like a barguest or frost stallion would do.
Sun 14 Feb 2021 7:48 PM by lampstandTDP
DJ2000 wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 6:50 PM
lampstandTDP wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 11:35 AM
L35 (gray) - 1%
L36 (green) - 9%
L39 (green) - 15%
L43 (blue) - 33%
L46 (blue) - 38%
maybe not 100% accurate, as i dont find my notes, but with 10+17/18 Light (24 Mana, 47 Mentalism)

L41 (blue) - 17% (never broke speed in 2h)
L44 (blue) - 29% (did break Speed once in 1h)
L50 (yell) - 62% (uncontrollable)
L52 (oj) - 77% (yikes)

My ment is currently 17 Light / 24 Mana / 45 Mentalism. Would have to test on the same NPCs again to check for differences/variations.

The numbers are good, I probably could have made the test spec used clearer :]
Cheers for the numbers from Menta-Menta spec i.e. with a bit more in light [(10+17) vs (4+16)].

lampstandTDP wrote:
daytonchambers wrote:
Sun 14 Feb 2021 4:24 AM
At RR6 (4L/46M/28M) I start to see resists rates of pulses ramping up above L35 mobs

0.66.(46) + 0.33.(4+16) = 35

Tyrlaan wrote: I tested it in between, a Mana/Menta Mentalist with single-digit Light could not hold the lowest NF curmudgeons (humanoids).

The introduction of the low levels pets (nicely fitting humanoid and animal types) coupled with the 2nd change to the formula suggest that they want every of those FOTM Mentalists to have a way to CC purge themselves. They are easy to pick up at either Emain or EV, cost no power worth speaking and would die easily if used for interrupts. They also don´t hurt when they remove mezz or root like a barguest or frost stallion would do.

100%, I probably did not make my point point clearly before, I'll try again...

I was musing the fact that really low level pets just die to fast and charming higher level ones that might survive a few stray hits are too much of a liability with all the chram drops. If the class is going to be balanced around having one a pet to function in this way, then being able to charm ones which are a bit higher (blue cons) that won't fall over when someone sneezes on them, would be very welcome: i.e. reverting back to the simple 2/3 x level + 1/3 x composite Light formula; balance permitting once the changes have been tried a while.

... that was what the logic in my head.
Mon 15 Feb 2021 12:31 AM by DJ2000
AFAIK, and what i figured out with my testing, there are basically "soft"-breakpoints for the Pet charm.
The moment i find my actual notes i can write down the resist rates per NPC level, but this is all i have rn.

At certain Modified Light Spec. Values, the resist rates will be always the same within the "bracket" regardless of the Lvl-NPC
11 - 18 mod. Light spec
19 - 22 mod. Light spec
23 - 27 mod. Light spec.
28 - 31 mod. Light spec.
32+ mod. Light spec.
(i simply can't go below 11 due to RR)
(i did not go above 32 mod. Light spec, as this is supposed to be for low light spec Mentalists, because high light spec are above 50 anyway, so they dont care.)

example 1: LVL49 (yellow)
from 11 till 18 the resist rate is always 72%
from 19 till 22 the resist rate is always 63%
from 23 till 27 the resist rate is always 55%
from 28 till 31 the resist rate is always 48%
at 32 the resist rate is always 42%

example 2: LVL45 (blue)
from 11 till 18 the resist rate is always 44%
from 19 till 22 the resist rate is always 38%
from 23 till 27 the resist rate is always 33%
from 28 till 31 the resist rate is always 28%
at 32 the resist rate is always 24%

example 3: LVL39 (green)
from 11 till 18 the resist rate is always 18%
from 19 till 22 the resist rate is always 15%
from 23 till 27 the resist rate is always 12%
from 28 till 31 the resist rate is always 9%
at 32 the resist rate is always 7%

i: Pets with resist rates above 25% are not recommended.
Thu 4 Mar 2021 4:31 PM by Greenangel
Trying balance a game for 8v8 when the game was made for realm vs realm and pve does not work.
It's just that players decide to change adapt the game to 8v8 4v4 2v2 1v1 to what ever they want.

But what ever changes you make your upset one group or brake one type of play.

I would try and please the majority of players and improve what the game was made for realm vs realm

But seems small amount players scream and bang there legs if they don't get what they want.

I don't give my 1 year old baby what he wants when he does that or should you.

I would rather see keep walls added that can be destroyed to spice up the realm war.

But its the devs server they can do what they want and I feel sorry for them trying please so many groups players who try play game in different ways styles to what game was originally designed.
Fri 5 Mar 2021 2:13 AM by teiloh
Noashakra wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 9:22 PM
So mentalist is limited to lvl 50 pets now? I would be fine with that if ministrel had the same.

So Minstrel is limited to 80 DPS now? I would be fine with that if mentalist had the same.
Fri 5 Mar 2021 2:19 AM by teiloh
Morloth wrote:
Sun 31 Jan 2021 10:30 PM
Minstrels are a chain wearing stealther that can climb walls, insta-stun, cast mez on the run, insta-charm and recharm red pets that can be used as a second purge, and SoS away when things go south. Certainly you can see why some people want a minstrel nerf and not a skald nerf?

I actually think not allowing a minstrel a red pet fixes the class. And if it really wasn't a big deal you wouldn't care so much about it.

lol. Laundry lists aren't arguments.
Sat 13 Mar 2021 3:51 PM by ulf
remove triple debuff resist
Sun 14 Mar 2021 1:50 AM by Tyrlaan
ulf wrote:
Sat 13 Mar 2021 3:51 PM
remove triple debuff resist

Nah they should add triple resist buffs too. And put the red tier triple resist buff at level 43 (the level where Shamans and Druids get the red heat resist buff) so that 1.0x classes can actually get them with a 44/30 spec (there has never been a point to the higher spells except for buffbots or people who would AE shear for RPs on live). That would finally allow Alb and Mid to run with red Body/Spirit/Energy too, much needed with them being the primary damage type in all 3 realms now (Alb Body, Hib Energy/Body, Mid Spirit/Energy) and also almost all CC off these (debuffed) resists. (One could also question if it´s good design to see elemental damage types, debuffs and buffs take such a backseat).

Oh and make all resist debuffs delve for the same value again. It makes no sense to grant Hib an extra advantage where they absolutely need none.
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