Paladins in 8 man/group RvR - Phoenix Freeshard

Lots of people say that paladins are useless because they fall in between two chairs. The spot they compete for in a group is either taken by an armsman, a theurg or a body dps.

Paladins are really good on Live, but for sure they have a lot more abilities, which goes against the nature of Phoenix (limiting the ability bloat). On phx, Paladins get a bumped up damage table and more spec points, allowing them to get high 2H (44+), 48 chants and slam.

Without being over the top, there could be some couple things that a paladin could get to enhance it's hybrid nature.

The first 3 proposals wouldn't be big changes, just slight improvements.
- Bump up their dmg add chant from 7 dps to 10 dps
- With their dps chant, add a haste (not celerity) component, going up to 20% haste at lvl 46
- Reduce the RUT on the insta taunt from 30 sec to 15 sec (this helps a lot to rupt casters from range)

Changes 4 to 6 are more major and are incremental abilities.
- Replace the 7 sec stun from Sun & Moon (50 2H back style chain follow-up) and replace it with a 153 dmg Spirit DD proc (same delve as Leviathan). The paladin has too many redundant stuns (slam, Sun & Moon, Two Moons), so it's really lost utility. The GRs on the styles are OK, nothing extreme. A back style would also have more effect on grouping than soloing.
- New magic dmg buffer chant: 6 sec duration, 8 sec recast; lvl 30 : 30%/60 dmg max // lvl 40 : 30%/90 dmg max // lvl 50 : 30%/120 dmg max
- New Block % chant : Chant (6 sec duration, 8 sec recast) that increases the block chance of the group, up to 15% additional blocking chance at 50 chants spec (lvl 30 : +5% block, lvl 40 : +10% block, lvl 50 : +15% block). This would synergize very well with an armsman using DD as an example.

Just throwing out ideas that aren't about replacing an armsman with a paladin, but more about making the paladin a nice addition to an armsman so that they synergyze well together and that picking a Body caster isn't the only real choice.

Tue 24 Nov 2020 9:03 AM by byron

GMs should remove invigoration potion effect in RvR if you are grouped in more than a small man. If they will do that you'll see more paladins in the frontier, at the moment alb (caster) groups prefer another interrupter or damage dealer because with the invigoration potion they can kite forever. These potions are ok in PvE, solos or smallmen but it has quite broken the group balance between realms.

Tue 24 Nov 2020 10:21 AM by Lollie

or just remove invig pots altogether, or at the very least cap them at end 2, perma sprint is just silly unless grouped with an end bot

Tue 24 Nov 2020 2:49 PM by opossum12

byron wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Nov 2020 9:03 AM
GMs should remove invigoration potion effect in RvR if you are grouped in more than a small man. If they will do that you'll see more paladins in the frontier, at the moment alb (caster) groups prefer another interrupter or damage dealer because with the invigoration potion they can kite forever. These potions are ok in PvE, solos or smallmen but it has quite broken the group balance between realms.

I don't think that's the right way to look at it.

In beta, endo pots were endo 4 so paladins were never grouped. They nerfed endo potions and all that lead to was killing the Alb tanker group. Paladins don't get more groups now than they did in beta when groups didn't need them, people just stopped playing tanks and went all cheese Body caster.

Also, nerfing endo again would only really hurt Alb, because Bard and Shaman are already in every group. They synergyze with their group. Paladins don't synergyze with anyone, they are just taking a spot that could be given to someone else.

That's the point of my post. The goal is not to nerf endo even more and force people to group paladins. The goal is to find areas to improve the paladin so that he becomes interesting to include in the group and doesn't feel like wasted utility.

Tue 24 Nov 2020 3:07 PM by gromet12

Lollie wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Nov 2020 10:21 AM
or just remove invig pots altogether, or at the very least cap them at end 2, perma sprint is just silly unless grouped with an end bot

That is also a nice bump for shaman/warden/friar which used to also be some few to have perma sprint available easily

Tue 24 Nov 2020 9:11 PM by opossum12

Endo isn't the topic of the thread.

Tue 24 Nov 2020 10:26 PM by hyshash

all of these suggestions are quiet good but the palas main problem is albs current inability to run melee grps
alb grps are mostly running 4 caster + arms or 5 caster because merc is just terribad without a backsnare
against any semi competend grp the merc will get snared+deseased as soon as he sticks smth or runs into the enemy grp and wont get to do some dmg and as long as this issue isnt fixed theres no reason to run with a merc
as long as you cant take your main melee dps into a semi competitive grp setup there wont be alb melee grps and without a melee grp theres no reason to take a pala over an arms or in addition to one

Tue 24 Nov 2020 11:22 PM by Kurbsen

pally/arms combo peeling for cab/sorc/theurg is a really strong setup.. 127 extra AF for all casters can go a long way.. pallys are definitely good for 8 man and are in a good spot right now imo.. but Im all for giving them a little more love to see more of them welcome in PUG groups.

Wed 25 Nov 2020 10:40 AM by byron

opossum12 wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Nov 2020 2:49 PM
I don't think that's the right way to look at it.

In beta, endo pots were endo 4 so paladins were never grouped. They nerfed endo potions and all that lead to was killing the Alb tanker group. Paladins don't get more groups now than they did in beta when groups didn't need them, people just stopped playing tanks and went all cheese Body caster.

Also, nerfing endo again would only really hurt Alb, because Bard and Shaman are already in every group. They synergyze with their group. Paladins don't synergyze with anyone, they are just taking a spot that could be given to someone else.

That's the point of my post. The goal is not to nerf endo even more and force people to group paladins. The goal is to find areas to improve the paladin so that he becomes interesting to include in the group and doesn't feel like wasted utility.

If in the classic server the developers decided to give end regen to paladins in Alb was for a reason. Now a class is played not so much because a potion that you can buy for few golds can give you the same effect and more damage grouping another class. You are talking about a nerf to Alb but this potion as it is now is quite a nerf to Mid since was the only realm that has a casted end buff instead of chants.
Blue regen buff with tireless and lw1 (that now are free) permit the perma sprint. In Midgard Shamans are still needed for spec buffs and interrupt. And it not about nerfing but it's quite clear that now every Alb group has more or less the same caster setup. So no paladins, no mercs and, if you are lucky, maybe one arsman (but a lot of group prefer another class maybe with a pet... a lot of pets

). A simple potion destroyed many classes in Alb as it is quite easier to win with the current setup nad this unbalanced also the game. So, if this potion will completely removed, I know that solo and smallmen play can be affected and I don't want it but using it in a 8 men group has unablanced the game quite hard in my opinion.

Wed 25 Nov 2020 1:10 PM by gromet12

byron wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Nov 2020 10:40 AM
opossum12 wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Nov 2020 2:49 PM
I don't think that's the right way to look at it.

In beta, endo pots were endo 4 so paladins were never grouped. They nerfed endo potions and all that lead to was killing the Alb tanker group. Paladins don't get more groups now than they did in beta when groups didn't need them, people just stopped playing tanks and went all cheese Body caster.

Also, nerfing endo again would only really hurt Alb, because Bard and Shaman are already in every group. They synergyze with their group. Paladins don't synergyze with anyone, they are just taking a spot that could be given to someone else.

That's the point of my post. The goal is not to nerf endo even more and force people to group paladins. The goal is to find areas to improve the paladin so that he becomes interesting to include in the group and doesn't feel like wasted utility.

If in the classic server the developers decided to give end regen to paladins in Alb was for a reason. Now a class is played not so much because a potion that you can buy for few golds can give you the same effect and more damage grouping another class. You are talking about a nerf to Alb but this potion as it is now is quite a nerf to Mid since was the only realm that has a casted end buff instead of chants.
Blue regen buff with tireless and lw1 (that now are free) permit the perma sprint. In Midgard Shamans are still needed for spec buffs and interrupt. And it not about nerfing but it's quite clear that now every Alb group has more or less the same caster setup. So no paladins, no mercs and, if you are lucky, maybe one arsman (but a lot of group prefer another class maybe with a pet... a lot of pets ). A simple potion destroyed many classes in Alb as it is quite easier to win with the current setup nad this unbalanced also the game. So, if this potion will completely removed, I know that solo and smallmen play can be affected and I don't want it but using it in a 8 men group has unablanced the game quite hard in my opinion.

It has also unbalanced small man play since everyone has endless styles. You had to make choices in potion usage, you had to make choices in RAs...now you run a pot that gives all that to every class. The only classes that should have perma sprint/styles are the endo classes and the two classes that fatigue reduction (which also should require some RA points)

Wed 25 Nov 2020 1:52 PM by hyshash

Kurbsen wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Nov 2020 11:22 PM
pally/arms combo peeling for cab/sorc/theurg is a really strong setup.. 127 extra AF for all casters can go a long way.. pallys are definitely good for 8 man and are in a good spot right now imo.. but Im all for giving them a little more love to see more of them welcome in PUG groups.

must be the reason why not a single 8vs8 grp runs that setup at least during eu pt
you allways prefer another sorc over a pala in that setup cause ichor/demezz/specc nuke/cc/pet/debuff is way more important then having another char that does the arms job, 0 dmg and delivers a bit more defensive ... if the grp runs friar/cler als healing classes theres even less reason to take a pala

there are two ways to get pala into an alb grp
1. delete endu pots and by that nerv every single alb grp cause alb melee sucks and pala sucks in a caster setup compared to other def tanks (no stoi no dd no sb)
2. make alb melee viable

Wed 25 Nov 2020 2:00 PM by byron

gromet12 wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Nov 2020 1:10 PM
It has also unbalanced small man play since everyone has endless styles. You had to make choices in potion usage, you had to make choices in RAs...now you run a pot that gives all that to every class. The only classes that should have perma sprint/styles are the endo classes and the two classes that fatigue reduction (which also should require some RA points)

Yes for sure but I'm just thinking about a compromise. For solos and smallmen some class for sure will benefit more from the end potions than others but the difference is smaller and who likes that playstyle can continue to play as it is. In a group of 8 only in one realm you can swap an entire class with a potion and you also take a lot of benefit doing that.

Wed 25 Nov 2020 2:24 PM by skipari

Kurbsen wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Nov 2020 11:22 PM
2. make alb melee viable

can you elaborate? I know Merc has no snare back style (neither has the h2h savage for example), which is a strong argument, but in exchange it is possible to have an anytime stun. Also a paladin would actually bring a back style snare for the train in the 2h line.

At least I wouldn't say alb melee isn't viable compared to hib/mid melee compositions, the caster setup is just far superior.

Wed 25 Nov 2020 4:20 PM by opossum12

hyshash wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Nov 2020 1:52 PM
Kurbsen wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Nov 2020 11:22 PM
pally/arms combo peeling for cab/sorc/theurg is a really strong setup.. 127 extra AF for all casters can go a long way.. pallys are definitely good for 8 man and are in a good spot right now imo.. but Im all for giving them a little more love to see more of them welcome in PUG groups.

must be the reason why not a single 8vs8 grp runs that setup at least during eu pt
you allways prefer another sorc over a pala in that setup cause ichor/demezz/specc nuke/cc/pet/debuff is way more important then having another char that does the arms job, 0 dmg and delivers a bit more defensive ... if the grp runs friar/cler als healing classes theres even less reason to take a pala

there are two ways to get pala into an alb grp
1. delete endu pots and by that nerv every single alb grp cause alb melee sucks and pala sucks in a caster setup compared to other def tanks (no stoi no dd no sb)
2. make alb melee viable

That's the way I oriented the post. Nerfing endurance is not a good avenue. It offers nothing enjoyable in the game and would only nerf alb because Shamans and Bards are always in groups and offer more than just endurance.

Taking a paladin for endurance would only bring some peels and endurance, nothing really good. And endurance management isn't fun, this is a game, adding mechanics that aren't enjoyable aren't beneficial imo.

For point #2, I see a couple ways. Alb has the AF debuff, that's great. However, their cc is a caster, and BAOD comes from theurg and cab. So if you don't want your tanker to actually be a hybrid comp (3-3), you could look into placing BAOD on the paladin. There's a reason a VW is so critical to a hib tanker, it's really about the fact that they get BAOD (and a couple other things).

I oriented my points 1-3 as slight tweaks that would help a tank group. A better dmg add, 3% more haste without needing a theurg, A rupt tool on a shorter RUT.

Points 4-5 also would help an alb tanker. Give them a magic dps buffer would be nice, and adding a "spike" to the paladin dps would be great aswell in the form of a high delve DD proc on the 50 2H back chain. I don't think either of these proposals would make the paladin OP, and wouldn't make Alb Body trains more OP, it would basically be a small improvement to Alb tank groups and potentially make the Paladin a good 2nd peeler with the added utility.

Point 6 was strictly about enhancing the armsman by having the paladin sidekick. There could be other ways, but having the block chance chant doesn't look too OP but would be a nice synergy.

Wed 25 Nov 2020 8:39 PM by Kurbsen

hyshash wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Nov 2020 1:52 PM
Kurbsen wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Nov 2020 11:22 PM
pally/arms combo peeling for cab/sorc/theurg is a really strong setup.. 127 extra AF for all casters can go a long way.. pallys are definitely good for 8 man and are in a good spot right now imo.. but Im all for giving them a little more love to see more of them welcome in PUG groups.

must be the reason why not a single 8vs8 grp runs that setup at least during eu pt
you allways prefer another sorc over a pala in that setup cause ichor/demezz/specc nuke/cc/pet/debuff is way more important then having another char that does the arms job, 0 dmg and delivers a bit more defensive ... if the grp runs friar/cler als healing classes theres even less reason to take a pala

there are two ways to get pala into an alb grp
1. delete endu pots and by that nerv every single alb grp cause alb melee sucks and pala sucks in a caster setup compared to other def tanks (no stoi no dd no sb)
2. make alb melee viable

plenty of pallys in 8 man NA time.. some of the strongest groups have it. You arent taking a pally in group for endo.. youre taking them for AF buff, second guard, VR, and a WOC, and rez..

Thu 26 Nov 2020 9:31 PM by hyshash

skipari wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Nov 2020 2:24 PM
can you elaborate? I know Merc has no snare back style (neither has the h2h savage for example), which is a strong argument, but in exchange it is possible to have an anytime stun. Also a paladin would actually bring a back style snare for the train in the 2h line.

At least I wouldn't say alb melee isn't viable compared to hib/mid melee compositions, the caster setup is just far superior.

every single sav whos worth his slot in the grp will specc for conquerer to get the backsnare to be able to do dmg while hes peeled and switch back to h2h when hes isnt snared
on the other hand having a slam as a compromise is shit ... you dont want to have to slam just to be able to do dmg and by that waste the stun timer incase your target mocs or is a tank and your deftank needs to get it off of smth important ... having to slam to do dmg isnt good or anything

skipari wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Nov 2020 2:24 PM
plenty of pallys in 8 man NA time.. some of the strongest groups have it. You arent taking a pally in group for endo.. youre taking them for AF buff, second guard, VR, and a WOC, and rez..

if they are the strongest alb grps thats not because of the pala or its synergy ... woc is like a single nuke and its falloff sucks hard, rez ... no words, af buff is like a bit less dmg, vr ok and if you need a second guard it means your arms gets outplayed way to often ... pala is a worse arms in most situations with less dmg, worse def ras and a little bit more defensive via af chant and maybe resis but the real problem is, that theres no alternative because its still better to take pala and arms then to take 2x arms because merc or reaver are even worse

i played in a full melee alb grp we tried several setups and didnt had a to bad quote against other 8vs8 grps but it still showed all the flaws alb has in a melee setup ... if your main dps cant do dps cause he gets peeled and cant stick his targets you cant take that class as a dps

Thu 26 Nov 2020 11:07 PM by Kurbsen

hyshash wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Nov 2020 9:31 PM
skipari wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Nov 2020 2:24 PM
can you elaborate? I know Merc has no snare back style (neither has the h2h savage for example), which is a strong argument, but in exchange it is possible to have an anytime stun. Also a paladin would actually bring a back style snare for the train in the 2h line.

At least I wouldn't say alb melee isn't viable compared to hib/mid melee compositions, the caster setup is just far superior.
every single sav whos worth his slot in the grp will specc for conquerer to get the backsnare to be able to do dmg while hes peeled and switch back to h2h when hes isnt snared
on the other hand having a slam as a compromise is shit ... you dont want to have to slam just to be able to do dmg and by that waste the stun timer incase your target mocs or is a tank and your deftank needs to get it off of smth important ... having to slam to do dmg isnt good or anything

skipari wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Nov 2020 2:24 PM
plenty of pallys in 8 man NA time.. some of the strongest groups have it. You arent taking a pally in group for endo.. youre taking them for AF buff, second guard, VR, and a WOC, and rez..
if they are the strongest alb grps thats not because of the pala or its synergy ... woc is like a single nuke and its falloff sucks hard, rez ... no words, af buff is like a bit less dmg, vr ok and if you need a second guard it means your arms gets outplayed way to often ... pala is a worse arms in most situations with less dmg, worse def ras and a little bit more defensive via af chant and maybe resis but the real problem is, that theres no alternative because its still better to take pala and arms then to take 2x arms because merc or reaver are even worse

i played in a full melee alb grp we tried several setups and didnt had a to bad quote against other 8vs8 grps but it still showed all the flaws alb has in a melee setup ... if your main dps cant do dps cause he gets peeled and cant stick his targets you cant take that class as a dps

dont think you do competitive 8 man then if you feel that way about those things. woc is probably the strongest offensive RA in the game, who cares about falloff damage youre not trying to AOE stuff down, just run on top of the guy and hit it for full damage and it will secure a kill.. rez is huge on a theurg, casters having close to 700 AF due to pally is also big. Paladin brings a lot to groups, I just dont think people know how to use it correctly.

Fri 27 Nov 2020 2:00 PM by hyshash

Kurbsen wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Nov 2020 11:07 PM
dont think you do competitive 8 man then if you feel that way about those things. woc is probably the strongest offensive RA in the game, who cares about falloff damage youre not trying to AOE stuff down, just run on top of the guy and hit it for full damage and it will secure a kill.. rez is huge on a theurg, casters having close to 700 AF due to pally is also big. Paladin brings a lot to groups, I just dont think people know how to use it correctly.

I barely do anything but 8vs8 ...
you think thats a lot a pala brings to grp while my argumentation is that you dont need these kind of things ... you dont want your theu to die so often that you need a 3rd class to rezz and more so if the 3rd class has to give up positioning to rezz the theu or worse rezz him into the middle of the fight so he'll instantly gets rupted/killed again
you only need the af when your arms gets permanently outplayed by the opposing tanks and cant salvage the situation by using dd anymore and like i said woc is like a nuke of a b-sorc just with a timer ... the body sorc would bring so much more into the grp then anything a pala has to offer
these thing would be good if they would be ontop of anything but not the main reason to take a pala ... a hybrid grp consists of 2 tanks 1 as def+assist and 1 as a dps + a bit of peel/rupt-assist just that a pala does no dmg -> more so if the enemys grps got bt (next to every hib grp and most mid grps) + dehaste (every mid grp+a few hib grps) + quick debuff (some mid most hib grps)

Fri 27 Nov 2020 2:34 PM by opossum12

I don't think the message is that paladins are complete crap. They just underperform compared to what they are fighting for a spot.

WoC on a tank can be useful, I agree. To say it's the most powerful offensive RA in the game is a bit exagerated. But I'm not sure what you would consider offensive and defensive so that's not the point.

Also, before you get a WoC that has significant use, what Rank do you need to be? You still need Purge2, Det9, AoM5+, some EM if no Baod in the group, VR, then you start taking WoC. So you are probably around R8-9 before you start getting some WoC.

I don't think any of the suggestions in the OP were over the top. I'd be curious to know what you guys think of the originial proposals.

1. Bump up their dmg add chant from 7 dps to 10 dps
2. With their dps chant, add a haste (not celerity) component, going up to 20% haste at lvl 46
3. Reduce the RUT on the insta taunt from 30 sec to 15 sec (this helps a lot to rupt casters from range)
4. Replace the 7 sec stun from Sun & Moon (50 2H back style chain follow-up) and replace it with a 153 dmg Spirit DD proc
5. New magic dmg buffer chant: 6 sec duration, 8 sec recast; lvl 30 : 30%/60 dmg max // lvl 40 : 30%/90 dmg max // lvl 50 : 30%/120 dmg max
6. New Block % chant : Chant (6 sec duration, 8 sec recast) that increases the block chance of the group, up to 15% additional blocking chance at 50 chants spec (lvl 30 : +5% block, lvl 40 : +10% block, lvl 50 : +15% block).
7. (new one) make the paladin rezz instant

Making these changes would honestly at least generate consideration for the Paladin over a Body sorc/theurg, other than getting a second peeler. Paladins are second peelers on alb because Mercs are complete trash as peels. It doesn't really add any additional abilities, the two chants could be in your regular chant rotation so wouldn't over complicate the paladin.

So instead of discussing endurance regen, which is not interesting one bit, I'd like to get opinions on the proposals above.

Thanks!

Fri 27 Nov 2020 11:46 PM by hyshash

none of these suggestions seem to be over the top .. at least for 8mens or smallmen dunno solo
but i think even if you would implement all of em it wouldnt lead to pala being invited into 8vs8 grps regularly (in eu pt ... us seem to be different anyway)
on the other hand ... as soon as alb melee grps get viable pala would most likely get more spots but for that to happen you dont have to buff palas but other classes like merc

Sat 28 Nov 2020 12:48 AM by Taniquetil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgZo8rCe6cg

Trust me, if a Paladin was not viable/strong class to include in a setup, DD would not have run a Paladin.

Sat 28 Nov 2020 11:59 AM by hyshash

DD was prolly the strongest group on this server with their hib caster setup and even they were way worse (not in like they were bad but less good) with that alb hybrid and stopped playing it quite fast
pala/arms is better then arms/arms but not because pala is such a good class just because you get a bit more utility then double arms and (and thats the main issue) because theres no viable alternative to actually take the melee dps spot in alb ... eigther you have a reaver who cant peel and wont do dmg as soon as ppl face him but he can rupt on range/pbae a bit or you take a merc who cant range rupt and cant stick his target eigther so he wont do too much dmg too because he will get peeled off of his targets
both of these options are even worse then having another 2h low dps pala with a bit more utility whos at least able to hit his targets every now and then because he cant get peeled off because of his backsnare

Sat 5 Dec 2020 4:40 AM by opossum12

bump

Sat 5 Dec 2020 8:32 PM by nixxo87

pala rips bros

Sun 6 Dec 2020 12:34 PM by hyshash

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Sun 6 Dec 2020 12:05 PM
LOL... "make alb melee viable". All the Alb melee classes are broken and overtuned!

yeah sure every single alb melee class is broken and overtuned in a grp vs grp szenario (and this is what we are talking about not solo not smallman and certainly not zerg cause melee in zerg ... lol)
lets break it down
merc: cant peel while doing dmg so he wont be able to do dmg as soon as he get deseased/peeled unless he slams his target and wastes a stun timer every single time he wants to do dmg .... got a charge and his bow for range rupt ... dt certainly is nice as anti tank train but for that to happen the merc has to be next to that train wich isnt rly the way you should be playing a melee dps in most cases
reaver: same like merc cant peel while doing dmg and even worse he wont do dmg as long as he cant hit targets into the back so every single semi competent player wont turn his back towards a reaver but on the other side its kinda easy with these arcs to strafe in backstyles and he got a bit of pbae and range rupt plus a few nice ras but on the other hand hes missing stoi wich sucks hard
pala: has to compete for the def tank spot with arms whos able to anytime peel (not such a big point tho) and got waaaaaay better ras. also got worse dmg then arms but more utility if you dont take the ras into consideration ... as long as you dont need endu (in a melee a grp) i dont realy see any point in a pala
arms: i personally believe hes worse then warri/hero -> yeah he got the anytimer peel but tbh its not hard to hit side/back style peels so in comparison to warri who can reliably peel for 23sec arms is way worse since you cant even numb+peel without bt cause the warri will back peel you and you lost the peel duel there with your 13 sec anytimer
and im comparison to an hero -> both got the shitty 13 sec peel arms is a bit better there with his anytimer (but like i said hitting backstyles/side is easy as shit here so w/e) but hero got his moose wich i personally think is a realy good tradeoff since a hero can run into a caster grp and kick moose to come out of that alive making him a better dmg sponge then an arms
but after all the differences in def tanks arent that great i personally think its like warrior>>hero>arms but after all thats an opinion

i cant realy see where alb tanks are broken and overtuned in a 8vs8 szenario ... alb is missing a melee dps whos able to do dmg even while hes peeled and as long as thats not a thing i cant see a way to integrate a pala into an alb grp

Sun 6 Dec 2020 1:34 PM by Neso

Giving them a major heal spell in chants would go a long way to helping.

+ Power bar is then utilised;
+ Gives albion a 3rd heal type in 8man (friar, cleric, paladin / druid, druid, bard, warden / healer, healer, sham)
+ Much more viable char in smallman;
+ Fits with the class lore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paladin_(character_class)

The broad concept is that of a "Holy Warrior", combining aspects of both Warrior and Cleric.

Sun 6 Dec 2020 3:59 PM by gromet12

Neso wrote: ↑
Sun 6 Dec 2020 1:34 PM
Giving them a major heal spell in chants would go a long way to helping.

+ Power bar is then utilised;
+ Gives albion a 3rd heal type in 8man (friar, cleric, paladin / druid, druid, bard, warden / healer, healer, sham)
+ Much more viable char in smallman;
+ Fits with the class lore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paladin_(character_class)
The broad concept is that of a "Holy Warrior", combining aspects of both Warrior and Cleric.

Don’t even care about the lore, it is all about balance in the game. Paladins in order to get a spec heal would have to give up stuff

It’s great to make them viable in your eyes, but how do you see the balance vs wardens for example? What about mid getting a 3rd heater? Do you want valks here? And alb got a 3rd healer in the day; it was a heretic not a paladin (and people don’t want those here either lol)

Sat 26 Dec 2020 12:13 AM by opossum12

Bump, considering it's a hot topic