Help for new Hunter

Started 1 Jul 2020
by Ulio ah ah
in Midgard
I created my hunter:

race, dwarf.
initial statistics, 15 agility 10 dexterity.

what should i train for exp? full bow?

I would like to get a spec with 50 spear (an rr5), a good spec for the low rank?

any advice for weapons to use?

Thank you
Wed 1 Jul 2020 1:38 PM by inoeth
Ulio ah ah wrote:
Wed 1 Jul 2020 10:26 AM
I created my hunter:

race, dwarf.
initial statistics, 15 agility 10 dexterity.

what should i train for exp? full bow?

I would like to get a spec with 50 spear (an rr5), a good spec for the low rank?

any advice for weapons to use?

Thank you

on lower rr i suggest 47 spear and go for 42 bc
and i personally went 10 str/dex/quick

for lvling 27 bow is enough then high bc and rest in spear
Wed 1 Jul 2020 1:59 PM by Ulio ah ah
Thanks for the replies.
yes, 10s / 10d / 10q is probably better.
Dwarf okay?
Do you use ROG LT? are there other interesting weapons?
Thu 2 Jul 2020 6:48 AM by inoeth
Ulio ah ah wrote:
Wed 1 Jul 2020 1:59 PM
Thanks for the replies.
yes, 10s / 10d / 10q is probably better.
Dwarf okay?
Do you use ROG LT? are there other interesting weapons?

dwarf is pretty good, high con and good resists
yes i went for fast lt spears... 3.9 thrust and 4.3 slash
but atm i think about trying a dot build with dragon heat dot proc and crafted dot, could be very strong if these proc early ^^
Mon 6 Jul 2020 10:13 AM by Zergcaptain
What is the reason to go +39 in weapon if there aren't any styles?
My impression is that damage is pretty much unchanged @ 52combined.
Mon 6 Jul 2020 11:15 AM by Cadebrennus
Zergcaptain wrote:
Mon 6 Jul 2020 10:13 AM
What is the reason to go +39 in weapon if there aren't any styles?
My impression is that damage is pretty much unchanged @ 52combined.

This is only the case if you're using a base weapon line (Axe) in combination with an advanced weapon line (Left Axe) while only using advanced weapon line styles. For a Hunter who only uses Sword or Spear, you get more damage from speccing higher than 39 Sword or Spear.
Mon 6 Jul 2020 11:23 AM by Zergcaptain
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 6 Jul 2020 11:15 AM
Zergcaptain wrote:
Mon 6 Jul 2020 10:13 AM
What is the reason to go +39 in weapon if there aren't any styles?
My impression is that damage is pretty much unchanged @ 52combined.

This is only the case if you're using a base weapon line (Axe) in combination with an advanced weapon line (Left Axe) while only using advanced weapon line styles. For a Hunter who only uses Sword or Spear, you get more damage from speccing higher than 39 Sword or Spear.

Makes sense!
Thanks for clarification.
Mon 6 Jul 2020 4:15 PM by gromet12
Zergcaptain wrote:
Mon 6 Jul 2020 11:23 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 6 Jul 2020 11:15 AM
Zergcaptain wrote:
Mon 6 Jul 2020 10:13 AM
What is the reason to go +39 in weapon if there aren't any styles?
My impression is that damage is pretty much unchanged @ 52combined.

This is only the case if you're using a base weapon line (Axe) in combination with an advanced weapon line (Left Axe) while only using advanced weapon line styles. For a Hunter who only uses Sword or Spear, you get more damage from speccing higher than 39 Sword or Spear.

Makes sense!
Thanks for clarification.

2handers will continue to increase base dmg with spec above 52 comp, and the style dmg for both 1hand/2hand increases as you are higher in the spec. The difference maker is you have to decide if it is worth the points; you don’t increase defense penetration with higher than 52 spec at any rate it’s worth it (like .15% per point based on Dalimer testing years ago), the 2h melee dmg bonus is small for the points, and the style dmg is only a few points higher.
Mon 6 Jul 2020 6:02 PM by inoeth
gromet12 wrote:
Mon 6 Jul 2020 4:15 PM
Zergcaptain wrote:
Mon 6 Jul 2020 11:23 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 6 Jul 2020 11:15 AM
Zergcaptain wrote:
Mon 6 Jul 2020 10:13 AM
What is the reason to go +39 in weapon if there aren't any styles?
My impression is that damage is pretty much unchanged @ 52combined.

This is only the case if you're using a base weapon line (Axe) in combination with an advanced weapon line (Left Axe) while only using advanced weapon line styles. For a Hunter who only uses Sword or Spear, you get more damage from speccing higher than 39 Sword or Spear.

Makes sense!
Thanks for clarification.

2handers will continue to increase base dmg with spec above 52 comp, and the style dmg for both 1hand/2hand increases as you are higher in the spec. The difference maker is you have to decide if it is worth the points; you don’t increase defense penetration with higher than 52 spec at any rate it’s worth it (like .15% per point based on Dalimer testing years ago), the 2h melee dmg bonus is small for the points, and the style dmg is only a few points higher.

thats not true, WS raises the higher the spec is, therefore your defense penetration also raises. however it has only minimal effect maybe 1-3% from 44 to 50
but being a hunter every % counts, together with you pet you will be able to drop evade7 to like 25% from originally ~45%
Mon 6 Jul 2020 11:27 PM by gromet12
inoeth wrote:
Mon 6 Jul 2020 6:02 PM
gromet12 wrote:
Mon 6 Jul 2020 4:15 PM
2handers will continue to increase base dmg with spec above 52 comp, and the style dmg for both 1hand/2hand increases as you are higher in the spec. The difference maker is you have to decide if it is worth the points; you don’t increase defense penetration with higher than 52 spec at any rate it’s worth it (like .15% per point based on Dalimer testing years ago), the 2h melee dmg bonus is small for the points, and the style dmg is only a few points higher.

thats not true, WS raises the higher the spec is, therefore your defense penetration also raises. however it has only minimal effect maybe 1-3% from 44 to 50
but being a hunter every % counts, together with you pet you will be able to drop evade7 to like 25% from originally ~45%

Weapon skill means nothing! It has nothing to do with anything other than in the UI, it could say 5k for all that matters, that number does nothing for your character.

It is the UI's (the UI) representation of doing this should increase dmg. However, we know that it is WRONG when it comes to 1hand dmg, the Weapon skill will continue to rise going above comp 52 but the base dmg does not on 1handers. This also applied to Bow dmg, though you spec'ed more in the archery weapon skill you gained nothing but the two-hand weapon bonus (which is small). The UI does not understand this, so it continues to increase given a false representation of increasing dmg. And you don't think that increasing WS will also give a false representation of "defense penetration"

https://camelotherald.fandom.com/wiki/Melee_Damage formulas are here

Defense penetration from the creators of the game....Notice the FIRST LINE. Stats matter not WS, and Skills are really low if you look at the test results posted at the end.

Mythic answers:

How much does my enemy's weaponskill effect my block/parry rate?
“Weaponskill” doesn’t determine defense penetration by itself but is rather an index value that is built from a character’s specialization, stats, +skills, and a class’ inherent ability with a given weapon line – all of which do factor into things like damage, defense and defense penetration. While it’s easy to say a higher weaponskill character fighting a lower one will *generally* have an easier time landing attacks, this isn’t solely because of their weaponskill but is more precisely because of all of the stats and factors that make up that weaponskill value.


There is no a calculation that can be made that says “X weaponskill equals Y reduction to an enemy’s block/parry rate” because more than just weaponskill (again, specifically the factors that make it up) applies to landing or defending against attacks. There are also style and weapon to-hit bonuses/penalties as well as buffs/debuffs that can greatly alter these outcomes.

There has been some controversy regarding Hand to Hand and Fist Wraps - do they benefit from the same penetration bonus as CD/DW/LA (vs Block and Evade)?
Yes, both Hand to Hand and Fist Wraps have the same penetration bonus as Celtic Dual, Dual Wield, and Left Axe as they are also considered “dual-wielding” specializations. Block and evade chances are reduced by 25% vs dual-wielders.

In testing this, the Savage and Mauler will still likely show more blocks and evades over the same number of tested styles than one of the Light Tanks would but this is because of their comparatively lower difference in their penetration bonus.

Tanks/light tanks basically have 17% while hybrids get 11% was the general rule, and Mythic mentions their difference because of the dmg factor/table they on. Yes savages are hybrids, I had that conversation in MSG the other day, so many think they are light tanks, they are hybrids and have lower defense penetration bonus


Daimars test results of defense penetration. Again you decide if given up other things makes sense for the small increase in defense penetration

https://sites.google.com/site/daoctests/home/daimar-base-weapon-defense-penetration


Tue 7 Jul 2020 9:04 AM by inoeth
gromet12 wrote:
Mon 6 Jul 2020 11:27 PM
inoeth wrote:
Mon 6 Jul 2020 6:02 PM
gromet12 wrote:
Mon 6 Jul 2020 4:15 PM
2handers will continue to increase base dmg with spec above 52 comp, and the style dmg for both 1hand/2hand increases as you are higher in the spec. The difference maker is you have to decide if it is worth the points; you don’t increase defense penetration with higher than 52 spec at any rate it’s worth it (like .15% per point based on Dalimer testing years ago), the 2h melee dmg bonus is small for the points, and the style dmg is only a few points higher.

thats not true, WS raises the higher the spec is, therefore your defense penetration also raises. however it has only minimal effect maybe 1-3% from 44 to 50
but being a hunter every % counts, together with you pet you will be able to drop evade7 to like 25% from originally ~45%

Weapon skill means nothing! It has nothing to do with anything other than in the UI, it could say 5k for all that matters, that number does nothing for your character.

It is the UI's (the UI) representation of doing this should increase dmg. However, we know that it is WRONG when it comes to 1hand dmg, the Weapon skill will continue to rise going above comp 52 but the base dmg does not on 1handers. This also applied to Bow dmg, though you spec'ed more in the archery weapon skill you gained nothing but the two-hand weapon bonus (which is small). The UI does not understand this, so it continues to increase given a false representation of increasing dmg. And you don't think that increasing WS will also give a false representation of "defense penetration"

https://camelotherald.fandom.com/wiki/Melee_Damage formulas are here

Defense penetration from the creators of the game....Notice the FIRST LINE. Stats matter not WS, and Skills are really low if you look at the test results posted at the end.

Mythic answers:

How much does my enemy's weaponskill effect my block/parry rate?
“Weaponskill” doesn’t determine defense penetration by itself but is rather an index value that is built from a character’s specialization, stats, +skills, and a class’ inherent ability with a given weapon line – all of which do factor into things like damage, defense and defense penetration. While it’s easy to say a higher weaponskill character fighting a lower one will *generally* have an easier time landing attacks, this isn’t solely because of their weaponskill but is more precisely because of all of the stats and factors that make up that weaponskill value.


There is no a calculation that can be made that says “X weaponskill equals Y reduction to an enemy’s block/parry rate” because more than just weaponskill (again, specifically the factors that make it up) applies to landing or defending against attacks. There are also style and weapon to-hit bonuses/penalties as well as buffs/debuffs that can greatly alter these outcomes.

There has been some controversy regarding Hand to Hand and Fist Wraps - do they benefit from the same penetration bonus as CD/DW/LA (vs Block and Evade)?
Yes, both Hand to Hand and Fist Wraps have the same penetration bonus as Celtic Dual, Dual Wield, and Left Axe as they are also considered “dual-wielding” specializations. Block and evade chances are reduced by 25% vs dual-wielders.

In testing this, the Savage and Mauler will still likely show more blocks and evades over the same number of tested styles than one of the Light Tanks would but this is because of their comparatively lower difference in their penetration bonus.

Tanks/light tanks basically have 17% while hybrids get 11% was the general rule, and Mythic mentions their difference because of the dmg factor/table they on. Yes savages are hybrids, I had that conversation in MSG the other day, so many think they are light tanks, they are hybrids and have lower defense penetration bonus


Daimars test results of defense penetration. Again you decide if given up other things makes sense for the small increase in defense penetration

https://sites.google.com/site/daoctests/home/daimar-base-weapon-defense-penetration




so according to your link increased skill does indeed lower defenses of an enemy. maybe the stat "weaponskill" does not make it into the equation but the skill of the weapon.
so in the end i dont see where im wrong and why you wrote a book here ;D
Tue 7 Jul 2020 10:48 AM by Cadebrennus
gromet12 wrote:
Mon 6 Jul 2020 11:27 PM
inoeth wrote:
Mon 6 Jul 2020 6:02 PM
gromet12 wrote:
Mon 6 Jul 2020 4:15 PM
2handers will continue to increase base dmg with spec above 52 comp, and the style dmg for both 1hand/2hand increases as you are higher in the spec. The difference maker is you have to decide if it is worth the points; you don’t increase defense penetration with higher than 52 spec at any rate it’s worth it (like .15% per point based on Dalimer testing years ago), the 2h melee dmg bonus is small for the points, and the style dmg is only a few points higher.

thats not true, WS raises the higher the spec is, therefore your defense penetration also raises. however it has only minimal effect maybe 1-3% from 44 to 50
but being a hunter every % counts, together with you pet you will be able to drop evade7 to like 25% from originally ~45%

Weapon skill means nothing! It has nothing to do with anything other than in the UI, it could say 5k for all that matters, that number does nothing for your character.

It is the UI's (the UI) representation of doing this should increase dmg. However, we know that it is WRONG when it comes to 1hand dmg, the Weapon skill will continue to rise going above comp 52 but the base dmg does not on 1handers. This also applied to Bow dmg, though you spec'ed more in the archery weapon skill you gained nothing but the two-hand weapon bonus (which is small). The UI does not understand this, so it continues to increase given a false representation of increasing dmg. And you don't think that increasing WS will also give a false representation of "defense penetration"

https://camelotherald.fandom.com/wiki/Melee_Damage formulas are here

Defense penetration from the creators of the game....Notice the FIRST LINE. Stats matter not WS, and Skills are really low if you look at the test results posted at the end.

Mythic answers:

How much does my enemy's weaponskill effect my block/parry rate?
“Weaponskill” doesn’t determine defense penetration by itself but is rather an index value that is built from a character’s specialization, stats, +skills, and a class’ inherent ability with a given weapon line – all of which do factor into things like damage, defense and defense penetration. While it’s easy to say a higher weaponskill character fighting a lower one will *generally* have an easier time landing attacks, this isn’t solely because of their weaponskill but is more precisely because of all of the stats and factors that make up that weaponskill value.


There is no a calculation that can be made that says “X weaponskill equals Y reduction to an enemy’s block/parry rate” because more than just weaponskill (again, specifically the factors that make it up) applies to landing or defending against attacks. There are also style and weapon to-hit bonuses/penalties as well as buffs/debuffs that can greatly alter these outcomes.

There has been some controversy regarding Hand to Hand and Fist Wraps - do they benefit from the same penetration bonus as CD/DW/LA (vs Block and Evade)?
Yes, both Hand to Hand and Fist Wraps have the same penetration bonus as Celtic Dual, Dual Wield, and Left Axe as they are also considered “dual-wielding” specializations. Block and evade chances are reduced by 25% vs dual-wielders.

In testing this, the Savage and Mauler will still likely show more blocks and evades over the same number of tested styles than one of the Light Tanks would but this is because of their comparatively lower difference in their penetration bonus.

Tanks/light tanks basically have 17% while hybrids get 11% was the general rule, and Mythic mentions their difference because of the dmg factor/table they on. Yes savages are hybrids, I had that conversation in MSG the other day, so many think they are light tanks, they are hybrids and have lower defense penetration bonus


Daimars test results of defense penetration. Again you decide if given up other things makes sense for the small increase in defense penetration

https://sites.google.com/site/daoctests/home/daimar-base-weapon-defense-penetration




Base damage DOES increase when using base styles with the base weapon. I know specifically from speccing and testing 50 Blades vs 50 Celtic Dual. Given equal Growth Rates each style will do the same damage.
Tue 7 Jul 2020 11:53 AM by inoeth
base dmg =! style dmg

you know

apples =! pears
but yeah ofc you tested it .... what else ;D you dont even seem to know how ridicolous your comment is..... again!!
still funny how you always deconstruct yourself
Tue 7 Jul 2020 12:37 PM by gromet12
Cadebrennus wrote:
Tue 7 Jul 2020 10:48 AM
Base damage DOES increase when using base styles with the base weapon. I know specifically from speccing and testing 50 Blades vs 50 Celtic Dual. Given equal Growth Rates each style will do the same damage.

Total dmg=base dmg + style dmg

If you use styles from that line then obviously style dmg will increase as it doesn’t cap. Base dmg does get “hard capped” unless a 2hander (which gets 2H bonus).

Style dmg is not the largest portion of the dmg formula, increasing style by a few points will raise the style dmg BUT it’s up to you to make the choice if it is worth it, some classes don’t have to make this choice, for example warriors have options along with zerkers, hunters though would do better imo stopping at a style (for the style) and balancing out archery/BC (42 for example for th higher AF) vs random points into weapon without style

Here it is explained on the archery changes, archery is melee base dmg only with no styles, it stopped increasing dmg except for the small 2hand bonus modifier which is why going above 52 gained so little for archers

The damage modifier formula will be changed for non-volley archery shots only and no longer cap at min(spec - 1, enemy level + 1) aka no longer cap at 52 in pvp situations. This alone will make a noticable difference between 27 and 50 bow spec while at the same time increasing the bow damage for higher specs without touching the current 27 bow damage.
Penetrating shot 2 will allow 50% of the damage to go through against self casted bt.
Tue 7 Jul 2020 12:51 PM by inoeth
gromet12 wrote:
Tue 7 Jul 2020 12:37 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Tue 7 Jul 2020 10:48 AM
Base damage DOES increase when using base styles with the base weapon. I know specifically from speccing and testing 50 Blades vs 50 Celtic Dual. Given equal Growth Rates each style will do the same damage.

Total dmg=base dmg + style dmg

If you use styles from that line then obviously style dmg will increase as it doesn’t cap. Base dmg does get “hard capped” unless a 2hander (which gets 2H bonus).

Style dmg is not the largest portion of the dmg formula, increasing style by a few points will raise the style dmg BUT it’s up to you to make the choice if it is worth it, some classes don’t have to make this choice, for example warriors have options along with zerkers, hunters though would do better imo stopping at a style (for the style) and balancing out archery/BC (42 for example for th higher AF) vs random points into weapon without style

Here it is explained on the archery changes, archery is melee base dmg only with no styles, it stopped increasing dmg except for the small 2hand bonus modifier which is why going above 52 gained so little for archers

The damage modifier formula will be changed for non-volley archery shots only and no longer cap at min(spec - 1, enemy level + 1) aka no longer cap at 52 in pvp situations. This alone will make a noticable difference between 27 and 50 bow spec while at the same time increasing the bow damage for higher specs without touching the current 27 bow damage.
Penetrating shot 2 will allow 50% of the damage to go through against self casted bt.

with the again toned down archery, i can assure you it is not going to help you alot to dump the points into archery that much. 35 bow is enough, you can even drop it to 27 easily and still deal good dmg. 42 bc is a must imo and then you have the points for 44+ spear. and if you want to be a decent hunter and not just a wall-add-archer then you want high weapon spec since you end up in melee 99% of your fights. also according to your statement to spec for the style, the 44 spear is one of the highest dmg styles in the game and also the lvl 50 is quite good if you can manage to land the side style in the first place.
Thu 9 Jul 2020 1:59 PM by Zocci
inoeth wrote:
Tue 7 Jul 2020 12:51 PM
gromet12 wrote:
Tue 7 Jul 2020 12:37 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Tue 7 Jul 2020 10:48 AM
Base damage DOES increase when using base styles with the base weapon. I know specifically from speccing and testing 50 Blades vs 50 Celtic Dual. Given equal Growth Rates each style will do the same damage.

Total dmg=base dmg + style dmg

If you use styles from that line then obviously style dmg will increase as it doesn’t cap. Base dmg does get “hard capped” unless a 2hander (which gets 2H bonus).

Style dmg is not the largest portion of the dmg formula, increasing style by a few points will raise the style dmg BUT it’s up to you to make the choice if it is worth it, some classes don’t have to make this choice, for example warriors have options along with zerkers, hunters though would do better imo stopping at a style (for the style) and balancing out archery/BC (42 for example for th higher AF) vs random points into weapon without style

Here it is explained on the archery changes, archery is melee base dmg only with no styles, it stopped increasing dmg except for the small 2hand bonus modifier which is why going above 52 gained so little for archers

The damage modifier formula will be changed for non-volley archery shots only and no longer cap at min(spec - 1, enemy level + 1) aka no longer cap at 52 in pvp situations. This alone will make a noticable difference between 27 and 50 bow spec while at the same time increasing the bow damage for higher specs without touching the current 27 bow damage.
Penetrating shot 2 will allow 50% of the damage to go through against self casted bt.

with the again toned down archery, i can assure you it is not going to help you alot to dump the points into archery that much. 35 bow is enough, you can even drop it to 27 easily and still deal good dmg. 42 bc is a must imo and then you have the points for 44+ spear. and if you want to be a decent hunter and not just a wall-add-archer then you want high weapon spec since you end up in melee 99% of your fights. also according to your statement to spec for the style, the 44 spear is one of the highest dmg styles in the game and also the lvl 50 is quite good if you can manage to land the side style in the first place.

Good points all around.
I'm suprised you say 42 BC is a must, or is that more a high RR type of deal?

Compared to what i thought was an absolute minimum, 32 for the last pet, you get:
Speed 165 -> 180 delve, 40->50sec
14 more AF
12 more dex/qui
24 more pet str/con

That means you sacrifice either 9 points in bow with 39 spear or 16 points with 44 spear:
(Considering 36 stealth @ RR4)
36S 44 spear 42BC = 31 Bow (Pen 1, No Rapid fire) (This reach composit 52 bow and Rapid Fire 1 @RR8)
36S 39 spear 42BC = 37 Bow (Pen 1, Rapid 1) (Composit bow 52 @RR5)
36S 44 spear 32BC = 41 Bow (Pen 2, Rapid 1)
36S 39 spear 32BC = 46 Bow (Pen 2, Rapid 2)

Is the bow damage really that horrible that 12 more dex/qui and 14 more AF outweights 9 or 16 points in bow? Or is it the scaling thats poor?
Are Pen. Arrow 2 and Rapid Fire 1 and 2 not good enough to value them in spec?
Is composite bow 52 not a must have?

Side note:
Is the 39 rear stun really worth following up with melee damage instead of trying to kite away?

My Hunter dinged 50 in the event and currently in the process of getting temped so my experience is limited at best..
Meanwhile during slow workhours I´m trying to gain some theoretical knowledge here on the forum.

Cheers
Thu 9 Jul 2020 4:15 PM by gromet12
Zocci wrote:
Thu 9 Jul 2020 1:59 PM
inoeth wrote:
Tue 7 Jul 2020 12:51 PM
gromet12 wrote:
Tue 7 Jul 2020 12:37 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Tue 7 Jul 2020 10:48 AM
Base damage DOES increase when using base styles with the base weapon. I know specifically from speccing and testing 50 Blades vs 50 Celtic Dual. Given equal Growth Rates each style will do the same damage.

Total dmg=base dmg + style dmg

If you use styles from that line then obviously style dmg will increase as it doesn’t cap. Base dmg does get “hard capped” unless a 2hander (which gets 2H bonus).

Style dmg is not the largest portion of the dmg formula, increasing style by a few points will raise the style dmg BUT it’s up to you to make the choice if it is worth it, some classes don’t have to make this choice, for example warriors have options along with zerkers, hunters though would do better imo stopping at a style (for the style) and balancing out archery/BC (42 for example for th higher AF) vs random points into weapon without style

Here it is explained on the archery changes, archery is melee base dmg only with no styles, it stopped increasing dmg except for the small 2hand bonus modifier which is why going above 52 gained so little for archers

The damage modifier formula will be changed for non-volley archery shots only and no longer cap at min(spec - 1, enemy level + 1) aka no longer cap at 52 in pvp situations. This alone will make a noticable difference between 27 and 50 bow spec while at the same time increasing the bow damage for higher specs without touching the current 27 bow damage.
Penetrating shot 2 will allow 50% of the damage to go through against self casted bt.

with the again toned down archery, i can assure you it is not going to help you alot to dump the points into archery that much. 35 bow is enough, you can even drop it to 27 easily and still deal good dmg. 42 bc is a must imo and then you have the points for 44+ spear. and if you want to be a decent hunter and not just a wall-add-archer then you want high weapon spec since you end up in melee 99% of your fights. also according to your statement to spec for the style, the 44 spear is one of the highest dmg styles in the game and also the lvl 50 is quite good if you can manage to land the side style in the first place.

Good points all around.
I'm suprised you say 42 BC is a must, or is that more a high RR type of deal?

Compared to what i thought was an absolute minimum, 32 for the last pet, you get:
Speed 165 -> 180 delve, 40->50sec
14 more AF
12 more dex/qui
24 more pet str/con

That means you sacrifice either 9 points in bow with 39 spear or 16 points with 44 spear:
(Considering 36 stealth @ RR4)
36S 44 spear 42BC = 31 Bow (Pen 1, No Rapid fire) (This reach composit 52 bow and Rapid Fire 1 @RR8)
36S 39 spear 42BC = 37 Bow (Pen 1, Rapid 1) (Composit bow 52 @RR5)
36S 44 spear 32BC = 41 Bow (Pen 2, Rapid 1)
36S 39 spear 32BC = 46 Bow (Pen 2, Rapid 2)

Is the bow damage really that horrible that 12 more dex/qui and 14 more AF outweights 9 or 16 points in bow? Or is it the scaling thats poor?
Are Pen. Arrow 2 and Rapid Fire 1 and 2 not good enough to value them in spec?
Is composite bow 52 not a must have?

Side note:
Is the 39 rear stun really worth following up with melee damage instead of trying to kite away?

My Hunter dinged 50 in the event and currently in the process of getting temped so my experience is limited at best..
Meanwhile during slow workhours I´m trying to gain some theoretical knowledge here on the forum.

Cheers


Pet str/con is worthless in most cases, your not going to stop to buff the pet when you cast them, you can roam with them out and play the tag-along game putting the pet in various areas, but yea

AF is nice because evade 3 isn't going to save you, you will evade around 1 n 5 swings vs most classes, that means you are taking dmg the other times as you have low defense. The AF buff helps lower that dmg some I used 42 spec AF with moa 4 to push the AF even higher (was almost 90 iirc), but that also buffed my potions at the time, which that no longer works. But spec 42 AF isn't just 14 higher than than 31 spec, you are forgetting spec buffs get 25% casted bonus, so its 80 AF for 42 spec vs 62 AF for 31 spec, and the dex/quick works same way. I did this so I could cap quickness more so than the dex, my hunter is sword as I think the styles are better than spear, HOWEVER most classes have purge which would ruin it anyways

For RF...there is no difference in time/dmg for RF (I actually don't recommend you use it tbh as a mid, just swap out a fast bow IMO using /switch). The difference is endo usage and its nothing to worry about since you have endo regen up anyways

Pen II is nice now, but I still dropped it after playing with the change. It allows you to pop self casted BT for 50% dmg reduction, I just invest in Longshot which doesn't do that do you and pops self BT


Thu 9 Jul 2020 5:16 PM by Cadebrennus
inoeth wrote:
Tue 7 Jul 2020 11:53 AM
base dmg =! style dmg

you know

apples =! pears
but yeah ofc you tested it .... what else ;D you dont even seem to know how ridicolous your comment is..... again!!
still funny how you always deconstruct yourself

It's hilarious when you post because you accuse others of not knowing anything, yet you gleefully post and display your own ignorance for everyone else to see.

Yes, base damage increases with more spec points. Yes there is a cap.

Sure, I get some words mixed up when I write. Dyslexia is a bitch, but I can work through it. Sadly, you can't work through your ignorance.
Thu 9 Jul 2020 6:47 PM by inoeth
gromet12 wrote:
Thu 9 Jul 2020 4:15 PM
Zocci wrote:
Thu 9 Jul 2020 1:59 PM
inoeth wrote:
Tue 7 Jul 2020 12:51 PM
gromet12 wrote:
Tue 7 Jul 2020 12:37 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Tue 7 Jul 2020 10:48 AM
Base damage DOES increase when using base styles with the base weapon. I know specifically from speccing and testing 50 Blades vs 50 Celtic Dual. Given equal Growth Rates each style will do the same damage.

Total dmg=base dmg + style dmg

If you use styles from that line then obviously style dmg will increase as it doesn’t cap. Base dmg does get “hard capped” unless a 2hander (which gets 2H bonus).

Style dmg is not the largest portion of the dmg formula, increasing style by a few points will raise the style dmg BUT it’s up to you to make the choice if it is worth it, some classes don’t have to make this choice, for example warriors have options along with zerkers, hunters though would do better imo stopping at a style (for the style) and balancing out archery/BC (42 for example for th higher AF) vs random points into weapon without style

Here it is explained on the archery changes, archery is melee base dmg only with no styles, it stopped increasing dmg except for the small 2hand bonus modifier which is why going above 52 gained so little for archers

The damage modifier formula will be changed for non-volley archery shots only and no longer cap at min(spec - 1, enemy level + 1) aka no longer cap at 52 in pvp situations. This alone will make a noticable difference between 27 and 50 bow spec while at the same time increasing the bow damage for higher specs without touching the current 27 bow damage.
Penetrating shot 2 will allow 50% of the damage to go through against self casted bt.

with the again toned down archery, i can assure you it is not going to help you alot to dump the points into archery that much. 35 bow is enough, you can even drop it to 27 easily and still deal good dmg. 42 bc is a must imo and then you have the points for 44+ spear. and if you want to be a decent hunter and not just a wall-add-archer then you want high weapon spec since you end up in melee 99% of your fights. also according to your statement to spec for the style, the 44 spear is one of the highest dmg styles in the game and also the lvl 50 is quite good if you can manage to land the side style in the first place.

Good points all around.
I'm suprised you say 42 BC is a must, or is that more a high RR type of deal?

Compared to what i thought was an absolute minimum, 32 for the last pet, you get:
Speed 165 -> 180 delve, 40->50sec
14 more AF
12 more dex/qui
24 more pet str/con

That means you sacrifice either 9 points in bow with 39 spear or 16 points with 44 spear:
(Considering 36 stealth @ RR4)
36S 44 spear 42BC = 31 Bow (Pen 1, No Rapid fire) (This reach composit 52 bow and Rapid Fire 1 @RR8)
36S 39 spear 42BC = 37 Bow (Pen 1, Rapid 1) (Composit bow 52 @RR5)
36S 44 spear 32BC = 41 Bow (Pen 2, Rapid 1)
36S 39 spear 32BC = 46 Bow (Pen 2, Rapid 2)

Is the bow damage really that horrible that 12 more dex/qui and 14 more AF outweights 9 or 16 points in bow? Or is it the scaling thats poor?
Are Pen. Arrow 2 and Rapid Fire 1 and 2 not good enough to value them in spec?
Is composite bow 52 not a must have?

Side note:
Is the 39 rear stun really worth following up with melee damage instead of trying to kite away?

My Hunter dinged 50 in the event and currently in the process of getting temped so my experience is limited at best..
Meanwhile during slow workhours I´m trying to gain some theoretical knowledge here on the forum.

Cheers


Pet str/con is worthless in most cases, your not going to stop to buff the pet when you cast them, you can roam with them out and play the tag-along game putting the pet in various areas, but yea

AF is nice because evade 3 isn't going to save you, you will evade around 1 n 5 swings vs most classes, that means you are taking dmg the other times as you have low defense. The AF buff helps lower that dmg some I used 42 spec AF with moa 4 to push the AF even higher (was almost 90 iirc), but that also buffed my potions at the time, which that no longer works. But spec 42 AF isn't just 14 higher than than 31 spec, you are forgetting spec buffs get 25% casted bonus, so its 80 AF for 42 spec vs 62 AF for 31 spec, and the dex/quick works same way. I did this so I could cap quickness more so than the dex, my hunter is sword as I think the styles are better than spear, HOWEVER most classes have purge which would ruin it anyways

For RF...there is no difference in time/dmg for RF (I actually don't recommend you use it tbh as a mid, just swap out a fast bow IMO using /switch). The difference is endo usage and its nothing to worry about since you have endo regen up anyways

Pen II is nice now, but I still dropped it after playing with the change. It allows you to pop self casted BT for 50% dmg reduction, I just invest in Longshot which doesn't do that do you and pops self BT




the thing is: you want 250 quick! and also as much AF as you can get since your defense as a hunter is pretty bad.
95% of your fights will end up in melee and if you suck there, high bow spec will not help you.
rapid fire is not exactly bad but as a hunter you you do not rely on that since you have a pet for rups. but yeah i also ran 44 spear and 35 bow which worked aswell, but im more the melee type of player so ...
atm i am 27 bow again and i hit normal shots on leather for around 290 and crits for 550... before i tried 35 bow and dmg was like 330 normal and 600+ crits so more bow spec is actually worth something now... imo depends on play style, but still you want alot of weapon skill.

ah and btw spear>sword since you can chose two dmg types plus spear offers much better styles... the evade stun from sword is worthless since it will get purged 99% you land it, if you land it. on the other hand the backstyle stun comes in handy alot if ppl try to escape.

my live rr10 hunter used to be sword spec but also had legend weapons and somehow the stun got not purged always back in the days. if one day legend weapons get introduced here i maybe try sowrd again.
Thu 9 Jul 2020 6:49 PM by inoeth
Cadebrennus wrote:
Thu 9 Jul 2020 5:16 PM
inoeth wrote:
Tue 7 Jul 2020 11:53 AM
base dmg =! style dmg

you know

apples =! pears
but yeah ofc you tested it .... what else ;D you dont even seem to know how ridicolous your comment is..... again!!
still funny how you always deconstruct yourself

blablabla i have nothing to say than radom rants and my silly excuse is an illness now



tell that your doctor, i dont believe any word you say
Fri 10 Jul 2020 9:51 AM by Zocci
Good info Inoeth and gromet12, thanks.

The 42 BC seems to indeed add alot of melee-value with the added AF for defence and added Dex/Qui for the Spear.
But at range that value quickly diminishes..
The rapid fire info was an eye opener as well, I valued that too high.

Looking at it I still want to focus on Bow to begin with at low RR knowing that i'll probably end up face down in melee regardless of spec..
With Stealth 37 and Spear 39 I'll do some test between 45 Bow, 32 BC and 39 Bow, 42 BC.

Once i get some experience and RA tools under my belt I'll look towards 36 Stealh, Spear 44, Bow 31, BC 42 and stop avoiding melee at all cost.
A good selection of LT and/or DoT spears should help here as well.

What's your opinion on RA progression?
Tireless
Longwind
Purge 2
IP 2?
?

I did not know about the bubble-pop ability of Longshot, is it 50% or 100% that goes thru?
That's quite alot of added value that RA.
Is it worth going Longshot early if you're sub 40 bow spec for that reason only? Still worth it at 40+ bow spec?

Cheers!
Fri 10 Jul 2020 6:55 PM by pollojack
The high BC or PF is always for the 250 qui. The other stats help but don't matter much. Str based weps increase ~1% per 4 points, so spear gets ~1% 8 points dex or 4 D/S.

I'd suggest taking BC/PF to whatever caps your Qui including MoA 1 or 2.

Bow DMG increased by ~0.5% from 51 to 52. It has been buffed considerably but for Rangers and Hunters you are still better off with 27 or 35 Bow, more if you have spare points. Mid I switch bows instead of using an ability. It is effectively the same without endo concerns. /switch works for bows, fyi. I have out shot Scouts with this. This also has the advantage of throwing a LT or some other favorable proc on the bow besides dot. For example, if you are in a clutch fight where firing fast actually matters it is likely to be the middle of the fight where both of you need health, where lifetap would come in handy.

Since the buff my hunter saw about ~50 more dmg per hit from 34 bow. Nice on crit shot opener for sins but not necessary.

Ultimately, you will be in melee most of your fights. Fights where your bow wins could be won with NS magic just as easily.
Sun 9 Aug 2020 7:13 AM by Cadebrennus
gromet12 wrote:
Thu 9 Jul 2020 4:15 PM
Zocci wrote:
Thu 9 Jul 2020 1:59 PM
inoeth wrote:
Tue 7 Jul 2020 12:51 PM
gromet12 wrote:
Tue 7 Jul 2020 12:37 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Tue 7 Jul 2020 10:48 AM
Base damage DOES increase when using base styles with the base weapon. I know specifically from speccing and testing 50 Blades vs 50 Celtic Dual. Given equal Growth Rates each style will do the same damage.

Total dmg=base dmg + style dmg

If you use styles from that line then obviously style dmg will increase as it doesn’t cap. Base dmg does get “hard capped” unless a 2hander (which gets 2H bonus).

Style dmg is not the largest portion of the dmg formula, increasing style by a few points will raise the style dmg BUT it’s up to you to make the choice if it is worth it, some classes don’t have to make this choice, for example warriors have options along with zerkers, hunters though would do better imo stopping at a style (for the style) and balancing out archery/BC (42 for example for th higher AF) vs random points into weapon without style

Here it is explained on the archery changes, archery is melee base dmg only with no styles, it stopped increasing dmg except for the small 2hand bonus modifier which is why going above 52 gained so little for archers

The damage modifier formula will be changed for non-volley archery shots only and no longer cap at min(spec - 1, enemy level + 1) aka no longer cap at 52 in pvp situations. This alone will make a noticable difference between 27 and 50 bow spec while at the same time increasing the bow damage for higher specs without touching the current 27 bow damage.
Penetrating shot 2 will allow 50% of the damage to go through against self casted bt.

with the again toned down archery, i can assure you it is not going to help you alot to dump the points into archery that much. 35 bow is enough, you can even drop it to 27 easily and still deal good dmg. 42 bc is a must imo and then you have the points for 44+ spear. and if you want to be a decent hunter and not just a wall-add-archer then you want high weapon spec since you end up in melee 99% of your fights. also according to your statement to spec for the style, the 44 spear is one of the highest dmg styles in the game and also the lvl 50 is quite good if you can manage to land the side style in the first place.

Good points all around.
I'm suprised you say 42 BC is a must, or is that more a high RR type of deal?

Compared to what i thought was an absolute minimum, 32 for the last pet, you get:
Speed 165 -> 180 delve, 40->50sec
14 more AF
12 more dex/qui
24 more pet str/con

That means you sacrifice either 9 points in bow with 39 spear or 16 points with 44 spear:
(Considering 36 stealth @ RR4)
36S 44 spear 42BC = 31 Bow (Pen 1, No Rapid fire) (This reach composit 52 bow and Rapid Fire 1 @RR8)
36S 39 spear 42BC = 37 Bow (Pen 1, Rapid 1) (Composit bow 52 @RR5)
36S 44 spear 32BC = 41 Bow (Pen 2, Rapid 1)
36S 39 spear 32BC = 46 Bow (Pen 2, Rapid 2)

Is the bow damage really that horrible that 12 more dex/qui and 14 more AF outweights 9 or 16 points in bow? Or is it the scaling thats poor?
Are Pen. Arrow 2 and Rapid Fire 1 and 2 not good enough to value them in spec?
Is composite bow 52 not a must have?

Side note:
Is the 39 rear stun really worth following up with melee damage instead of trying to kite away?

My Hunter dinged 50 in the event and currently in the process of getting temped so my experience is limited at best..
Meanwhile during slow workhours I´m trying to gain some theoretical knowledge here on the forum.

Cheers


Pet str/con is worthless in most cases, your not going to stop to buff the pet when you cast them, you can roam with them out and play the tag-along game putting the pet in various areas, but yea

AF is nice because evade 3 isn't going to save you, you will evade around 1 n 5 swings vs most classes, that means you are taking dmg the other times as you have low defense. The AF buff helps lower that dmg some I used 42 spec AF with moa 4 to push the AF even higher (was almost 90 iirc), but that also buffed my potions at the time, which that no longer works. But spec 42 AF isn't just 14 higher than than 31 spec, you are forgetting spec buffs get 25% casted bonus, so its 80 AF for 42 spec vs 62 AF for 31 spec, and the dex/quick works same way. I did this so I could cap quickness more so than the dex, my hunter is sword as I think the styles are better than spear, HOWEVER most classes have purge which would ruin it anyways

For RF...there is no difference in time/dmg for RF (I actually don't recommend you use it tbh as a mid, just swap out a fast bow IMO using /switch). The difference is endo usage and its nothing to worry about since you have endo regen up anyways

Pen II is nice now, but I still dropped it after playing with the change. It allows you to pop self casted BT for 50% dmg reduction, I just invest in Longshot which doesn't do that do you and pops self BT




What is the fastest bow available to Hunters on Mid?
Thu 13 Aug 2020 6:49 AM by inoeth
4.0
Thu 13 Aug 2020 8:38 AM by Cadebrennus
inoeth wrote:
Thu 13 Aug 2020 6:49 AM
4.0

That's what I thought but is it possible to get to the 1.5 speed cap using regular shot and a 4.0? The speed calculators I've used haven't shown this is possible (in reference to Pollojack's comment above)
Thu 13 Aug 2020 11:43 AM by Bradekes
Cadebrennus wrote:
Thu 13 Aug 2020 8:38 AM
inoeth wrote:
Thu 13 Aug 2020 6:49 AM
4.0

That's what I thought but is it possible to get to the 1.5 speed cap using regular shot and a 4.0? The speed calculators I've used haven't shown this is possible (in reference to Pollojack's comment above)

Bow isn't affected by haste or celerity. It's not possible to cap bow speed. 4.0 bow with 250 quickness is at 2.4 speed, and if you get MoArchery 9 your 2.4speed would be 2.04 speed. Bow speed may not even have a cap but that is impossible to find out without being able to custom make a faster bow.
Thu 13 Aug 2020 6:44 PM by inoeth
Bradekes wrote:
Thu 13 Aug 2020 11:43 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Thu 13 Aug 2020 8:38 AM
inoeth wrote:
Thu 13 Aug 2020 6:49 AM
4.0

That's what I thought but is it possible to get to the 1.5 speed cap using regular shot and a 4.0? The speed calculators I've used haven't shown this is possible (in reference to Pollojack's comment above)

Bow isn't affected by haste or celerity. It's not possible to cap bow speed. 4.0 bow with 250 quickness is at 2.4 speed, and if you get MoArchery 9 your 2.4speed would be 2.04 speed. Bow speed may not even have a cap but that is impossible to find out without being able to custom make a faster bow.

would be interesting how much dmg you would do with 50 bow moarchery9 and a 4.0 bow... i can imagine it would be about 300 every 2s ... not too bad
Thu 13 Aug 2020 11:24 PM by gromet12
Cadebrennus wrote:
Thu 13 Aug 2020 8:38 AM
inoeth wrote:
Thu 13 Aug 2020 6:49 AM
4.0

That's what I thought but is it possible to get to the 1.5 speed cap using regular shot and a 4.0? The speed calculators I've used haven't shown this is possible (in reference to Pollojack's comment above)

No it’s not 1.5secs but it’s 2secs and doesn’t suffer from the dmg reduction with RF
Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:53 AM by Cadebrennus
gromet12 wrote:
Thu 13 Aug 2020 11:24 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Thu 13 Aug 2020 8:38 AM
inoeth wrote:
Thu 13 Aug 2020 6:49 AM
4.0

That's what I thought but is it possible to get to the 1.5 speed cap using regular shot and a 4.0? The speed calculators I've used haven't shown this is possible (in reference to Pollojack's comment above)

No it’s not 1.5secs but it’s 2secs and doesn’t suffer from the dmg reduction with RF

Weapon speed cap is 1.5
Fri 14 Aug 2020 11:40 AM by gromet12
Cadebrennus wrote:
Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:53 AM
gromet12 wrote:
Thu 13 Aug 2020 11:24 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Thu 13 Aug 2020 8:38 AM
inoeth wrote:
Thu 13 Aug 2020 6:49 AM
4.0

That's what I thought but is it possible to get to the 1.5 speed cap using regular shot and a 4.0? The speed calculators I've used haven't shown this is possible (in reference to Pollojack's comment above)

No it’s not 1.5secs but it’s 2secs and doesn’t suffer from the dmg reduction with RF

Weapon speed cap is 1.5

And?
Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:24 PM by Cadebrennus
gromet12 wrote:
Fri 14 Aug 2020 11:40 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:53 AM
gromet12 wrote:
Thu 13 Aug 2020 11:24 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Thu 13 Aug 2020 8:38 AM
inoeth wrote:
Thu 13 Aug 2020 6:49 AM
4.0

That's what I thought but is it possible to get to the 1.5 speed cap using regular shot and a 4.0? The speed calculators I've used haven't shown this is possible (in reference to Pollojack's comment above)

No it’s not 1.5secs but it’s 2secs and doesn’t suffer from the dmg reduction with RF

Weapon speed cap is 1.5

And?

And a Hunter who is not close to 1.5 speed cap but a Scout/Ranger who is at 1.5 speed cap can lose the interrupt war based on speed alone. Not a problem for a 1v1 situation with a Hunter but it is a problem with multiple enemies.
Fri 14 Aug 2020 7:49 PM by daytonchambers
Cadebrennus wrote:
Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:24 PM
And a Hunter who is not close to 1.5 speed cap but a Scout/Ranger who is at 1.5 speed cap can lose the interrupt war based on speed alone. Not a problem for a 1v1 situation with a Hunter but it is a problem with multiple enemies.


As long as you have 35 archery for RF you could toggle it on to fire at speed cap until you have the initiative then switch rapidfire off to jack up your damage while only slowing shot speed down by a half second.

I'll def need to play with this and see if a sped-up 4.0 firing reg shots can land a good bit more damage (per shot, not per second) when compared to a 5.0 bow that's rapid-firing, which has always been my go-to.

That said, even with theorycrafting the 2.0 shot speed with a 4.0 bow I still think rapidfire is a must-have as an interrupt tool vs multiple heals/cc classes
Sun 16 Aug 2020 11:47 AM by inoeth
daytonchambers wrote:
Fri 14 Aug 2020 7:49 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:24 PM
And a Hunter who is not close to 1.5 speed cap but a Scout/Ranger who is at 1.5 speed cap can lose the interrupt war based on speed alone. Not a problem for a 1v1 situation with a Hunter but it is a problem with multiple enemies.


As long as you have 35 archery for RF you could toggle it on to fire at speed cap until you have the initiative then switch rapidfire off to jack up your damage while only slowing shot speed down by a half second.

I'll def need to play with this and see if a sped-up 4.0 firing reg shots can land a good bit more damage (per shot, not per second) when compared to a 5.0 bow that's rapid-firing, which has always been my go-to.

That said, even with theorycrafting the 2.0 shot speed with a 4.0 bow I still think rapidfire is a must-have as an interrupt tool vs multiple heals/cc classes

nope as a hunter you have your pet for interrupts
i see rapid fire more as a "hinder to get away" ability since normal shots can sometimes take too long to deal enough dmg in a short time.
sometimes ppl just run out of bow range, but with RF you can often bring them down to <30% so they are slowed and you can run after them
Fri 21 Aug 2020 1:49 AM by daytonchambers
inoeth wrote:
Sun 16 Aug 2020 11:47 AM
daytonchambers wrote: That said, even with theorycrafting the 2.0 shot speed with a 4.0 bow I still think rapidfire is a must-have as an interrupt tool vs multiple heals/cc classes

nope as a hunter you have your pet for interrupts

i see rapid fire more as a "hinder to get away" ability since normal shots can sometimes take too long to deal enough dmg in a short time.
sometimes ppl just run out of bow range, but with RF you can often bring them down to <30% so they are slowed and you can run after them

For damage RF is great and I 100% agree with you that its a good tool to get more steady damage on a target quickly to get that low health snare on them. I use it that way myself, rf opener to clear any ablative or BT, then crit, then RF again to minigun the target with arrows. I've even done this to a bard and the reload rate is so fast damage barely skips a beat if the bard is using their high level amnesia and I don't get interrupted.

As far as rupts go... 1v1 sure I agree the dog works, possibly even 1v2 IF neither of those classes have any sort of CC ability (which most casters and healers indeed have) or if you're dealing with a scout who simply stop slams the dog. And you need good pet management skills to do this, so you can keep on DPS while navigating the dog at the same time to one or more targets to interrupt them.

That said I don't think that the dog can shut down an entire back support line even remotely as effectively as tab toggling between three back-line support casters (heal/nuke) and rapidfiring all three of them. Which I do a lot to break a push in ZvZ

rapidfire is an amazing tool for interrupts
Fri 21 Aug 2020 11:53 AM by Centenario
daytonchambers wrote: rapidfire is an amazing tool for interrupts

To what key do you bind the rapidfire?
Or how to you switch so effectively, could you send a screen of your bars?
Fri 21 Aug 2020 2:15 PM by gotwqqd
I’d almost say RF after initial shot may be always best option
As the damage is less likely to be noticed in time
Fri 21 Aug 2020 5:33 PM by Cadebrennus
daytonchambers wrote:
Fri 21 Aug 2020 1:49 AM
That said I don't think that the dog can shut down an entire back support line even remotely as effectively as tab toggling between three back-line support casters (heal/nuke) and rapidfiring all three of them. Which I do a lot to break a push in ZvZ

rapidfire is an amazing tool for interrupts

Really good point here. I've been doing this for years on the Ranger (pre-Phoenix and on Phoenix)

Interrupting:
https://youtu.be/TGsUopwl-lY
(the video is only a few minutes long, not 14 minutes long)
Mon 24 Aug 2020 12:46 AM by daytonchambers
Centenario wrote:
Fri 21 Aug 2020 11:53 AM
daytonchambers wrote: rapidfire is an amazing tool for interrupts

To what key do you bind the rapidfire?
Or how to you switch so effectively, could you send a screen of your bars?

my bars are all over the place with melee styles, and agg/passive and attack stay commands for the dog to navigate it while lurking around:



For bow shots I use quickbinds to function keys with ctrl and alt as two modifiers to toggle either crit or rapidfire. I don't have anything special for RA shots so those just get clickied on the top corner of my bar. Too many buttons not enough fingers. I also use a Nostromo gamepad for basic forward-back movement while steering with mouse, and my key swipes for style chains and pet control which sweep those three bars in different sequences depending on which gamepad keys I press.

My shot rotation would be: melee in hand, slinking aroung. Click my qbind for bow once to equip (f10). ctrl-f10 to toggle rapidfire, then f10 to draw a bubble pop shot. Alt-f10 then f10 again to draw a crit and auto release. During the crit draw delay hit ctrl-f10 again to re-toggle rapidfire. This can be done while the crit shot is loading and will not cancel the shot, but will apply rapidfire on the shot following the crit. Then spam f10 to machine gun the target.

Great QBind tutorial here:
https://youtu.be/63ZYq_x-w78
Mon 24 Aug 2020 3:23 AM by gotwqqd
I think most important thing for hunter is distancing.

I used to think they would be bet with Slant toward melee spec , but since encountering some that seem to be bow prioritized I think that is way to go.
The pet is invaluable while plinking from range
Sat 29 Aug 2020 10:20 AM by Siouxsie
inoeth wrote:
Tue 7 Jul 2020 9:04 AM
gromet12 wrote:
Mon 6 Jul 2020 11:27 PM
inoeth wrote:
Mon 6 Jul 2020 6:02 PM
gromet12 wrote:
Mon 6 Jul 2020 4:15 PM
2handers will continue to increase base dmg with spec above 52 comp, and the style dmg for both 1hand/2hand increases as you are higher in the spec. The difference maker is you have to decide if it is worth the points; you don’t increase defense penetration with higher than 52 spec at any rate it’s worth it (like .15% per point based on Dalimer testing years ago), the 2h melee dmg bonus is small for the points, and the style dmg is only a few points higher.

thats not true, WS raises the higher the spec is, therefore your defense penetration also raises. however it has only minimal effect maybe 1-3% from 44 to 50
but being a hunter every % counts, together with you pet you will be able to drop evade7 to like 25% from originally ~45%

Weapon skill means nothing! It has nothing to do with anything other than in the UI, it could say 5k for all that matters, that number does nothing for your character.

It is the UI's (the UI) representation of doing this should increase dmg. However, we know that it is WRONG when it comes to 1hand dmg, the Weapon skill will continue to rise going above comp 52 but the base dmg does not on 1handers. This also applied to Bow dmg, though you spec'ed more in the archery weapon skill you gained nothing but the two-hand weapon bonus (which is small). The UI does not understand this, so it continues to increase given a false representation of increasing dmg. And you don't think that increasing WS will also give a false representation of "defense penetration"

https://camelotherald.fandom.com/wiki/Melee_Damage formulas are here

Defense penetration from the creators of the game....Notice the FIRST LINE. Stats matter not WS, and Skills are really low if you look at the test results posted at the end.

Mythic answers:

How much does my enemy's weaponskill effect my block/parry rate?
“Weaponskill” doesn’t determine defense penetration by itself but is rather an index value that is built from a character’s specialization, stats, +skills, and a class’ inherent ability with a given weapon line – all of which do factor into things like damage, defense and defense penetration. While it’s easy to say a higher weaponskill character fighting a lower one will *generally* have an easier time landing attacks, this isn’t solely because of their weaponskill but is more precisely because of all of the stats and factors that make up that weaponskill value.


There is no a calculation that can be made that says “X weaponskill equals Y reduction to an enemy’s block/parry rate” because more than just weaponskill (again, specifically the factors that make it up) applies to landing or defending against attacks. There are also style and weapon to-hit bonuses/penalties as well as buffs/debuffs that can greatly alter these outcomes.

There has been some controversy regarding Hand to Hand and Fist Wraps - do they benefit from the same penetration bonus as CD/DW/LA (vs Block and Evade)?
Yes, both Hand to Hand and Fist Wraps have the same penetration bonus as Celtic Dual, Dual Wield, and Left Axe as they are also considered “dual-wielding” specializations. Block and evade chances are reduced by 25% vs dual-wielders.

In testing this, the Savage and Mauler will still likely show more blocks and evades over the same number of tested styles than one of the Light Tanks would but this is because of their comparatively lower difference in their penetration bonus.

Tanks/light tanks basically have 17% while hybrids get 11% was the general rule, and Mythic mentions their difference because of the dmg factor/table they on. Yes savages are hybrids, I had that conversation in MSG the other day, so many think they are light tanks, they are hybrids and have lower defense penetration bonus


Daimars test results of defense penetration. Again you decide if given up other things makes sense for the small increase in defense penetration

https://sites.google.com/site/daoctests/home/daimar-base-weapon-defense-penetration




so according to your link increased skill does indeed lower defenses of an enemy. maybe the stat "weaponskill" does not make it into the equation but the skill of the weapon.
so in the end i dont see where im wrong and why you wrote a book here ;D

I've found even having 1901 weaponskill with bow, assasins still evade my crit shot. How do they evade an arrow shot that they don't know is coming?
Of course, I never evade their PA.
Sat 29 Aug 2020 10:31 AM by Siouxsie
inoeth wrote:
Thu 13 Aug 2020 6:44 PM
would be interesting how much dmg you would do with 50 bow moarchery9 and a 4.0 bow... i can imagine it would be about 300 every 2s ... not too bad

My tests with 50 bow, moarchery 9, and 5.0 bow, I've crit shot infiltrators for 875, regular shot 477.
Casters I've hit for 922. I think that's cap bow damage.
I have shot heroes/champs for 700s (slash arrows)
Thu 3 Sep 2020 1:24 PM by inoeth
Siouxsie wrote:
Sat 29 Aug 2020 10:31 AM
inoeth wrote:
Thu 13 Aug 2020 6:44 PM
would be interesting how much dmg you would do with 50 bow moarchery9 and a 4.0 bow... i can imagine it would be about 300 every 2s ... not too bad

My tests with 50 bow, moarchery 9, and 5.0 bow, I've crit shot infiltrators for 875, regular shot 477.
Casters I've hit for 922. I think that's cap bow damage.
I have shot heroes/champs for 700s (slash arrows)

how much dex? whats the actual draw time? did you try a 4.0 bow?
Thu 3 Sep 2020 5:52 PM by Sisay
My hunter just ding 50 now. I have a few questions :

What the better ra start to?

LW/Tireless
Purge 2
???

And for the temp :
Spear : Bloodfire spear (for heat dot), crafted spear with standard dot and fast rog LT?
Bow : 2 Crafted bow with dot ? (1 4.0 vit and 1 5.0 vit )

Thank you
Fri 4 Sep 2020 7:39 AM by Nunki
Sisay wrote:
Thu 3 Sep 2020 5:52 PM
My hunter just ding 50 now. I have a few questions :

What the better ra start to?

LW/Tireless
Purge 2
???

And for the temp :
Spear : Bloodfire spear (for heat dot), crafted spear with standard dot and fast rog LT?
Bow : 2 Crafted bow with dot ? (1 4.0 vit and 1 5.0 vit )

Thank you

LW/Tireless
Purge 2-3
IP 2-3
aug quick until you hit 250 quickness (including self buffs and pots ofc)
wild minion 1
Passives depending on spec and race (aug dex, toughness, probably mop/falcon eye 1-3)
Fri 4 Sep 2020 12:58 PM by inoeth
Nunki wrote:
Fri 4 Sep 2020 7:39 AM
Sisay wrote:
Thu 3 Sep 2020 5:52 PM
My hunter just ding 50 now. I have a few questions :

What the better ra start to?

LW/Tireless
Purge 2
???

And for the temp :
Spear : Bloodfire spear (for heat dot), crafted spear with standard dot and fast rog LT?
Bow : 2 Crafted bow with dot ? (1 4.0 vit and 1 5.0 vit )

Thank you

LW/Tireless
Purge 2-3
IP 2-3
aug quick until you hit 250 quickness (including self buffs and pots ofc)
wild minion 1
Passives depending on spec and race (aug dex, toughness, probably mop/falcon eye 1-3)

crit RAs not worth specing, better get moarch and/or moarms depending on playstyle
imo ip4 is a must have nowadays with stacking PA+debuff dmg
Fri 4 Sep 2020 1:26 PM by Sisay
Thank you it's not better to start with 1-2 pts in MOA before using Aug Qui for the 250 target?

And any idea for my temp question ? :

Spear : Bloodfire spear (for heat dot), crafted spear with standard dot and fast rog LT?
Bow : 2 Crafted bow with dot ? (1 4.0 vit and 1 5.0 vit )

Oh and I have another question :

Any good spot to chain orange for rog and farming ? I'm using my BD right now in malmo on red/purple but if I can farm with my hunter I should get better salvage stuff with more metal...
Fri 4 Sep 2020 1:35 PM by inoeth
yes atm its dot meta, also get a slash spear with dot so you can fight slash vunerable enemys more efficiently.
if you are lucky or can afford, get ROG lt spears with 3.9 and 4.3 speed too

use a swing speed calculator to find the best combination of moa and augquick... usually moa>augquick but at some point you want to cap quickness to 250, ah and btw moarcana also helps a bit but dont dump too much into is 1-3 is ok..... as said use a calculator to find the best combination

you should have both, a 4.0 and a 5.0 and yes dot is best

i think malmo is good, maybe moderna too
Tue 8 Sep 2020 11:38 AM by Siouxsie
inoeth wrote:
Thu 3 Sep 2020 1:24 PM
how much dex? whats the actual draw time? did you try a 4.0 bow?

I didn't try a 4.0 spd bow. Draw time and dex I didn't record. I think dex was around 330.
Tue 8 Sep 2020 7:01 PM by Tashkent
inoeth wrote:
Fri 4 Sep 2020 12:58 PM
Nunki wrote:
Fri 4 Sep 2020 7:39 AM
Sisay wrote:
Thu 3 Sep 2020 5:52 PM
My hunter just ding 50 now. I have a few questions :

What the better ra start to?

LW/Tireless
Purge 2
???

And for the temp :
Spear : Bloodfire spear (for heat dot), crafted spear with standard dot and fast rog LT?
Bow : 2 Crafted bow with dot ? (1 4.0 vit and 1 5.0 vit )

Thank you

LW/Tireless
Purge 2-3
IP 2-3
aug quick until you hit 250 quickness (including self buffs and pots ofc)
wild minion 1
Passives depending on spec and race (aug dex, toughness, probably mop/falcon eye 1-3)

crit RAs not worth specing, better get moarch and/or moarms depending on playstyle
imo ip4 is a must have nowadays with stacking PA+debuff dmg

Agree with the ip4 part, it makes a comfortable difference, also moarms. Wouldn't bother speccing more than purge2, I mostly use in conjunction with ip anyway. Personally, I find mop worth speccing. Later in it's aug dex and tough for me.
Tue 8 Sep 2020 7:51 PM by Sisay
Shouldn't better to put points in dex first? it's help both melee and ranged?

Oh and I finish my temp and it's give me 256 qui without any RA. Should I change my basic stat to remove qui and put it somewhere?
Wed 9 Sep 2020 6:38 AM by inoeth
Sisay wrote:
Tue 8 Sep 2020 7:51 PM
Shouldn't better to put points in dex first? it's help both melee and ranged?

Oh and I finish my temp and it's give me 256 qui without any RA. Should I change my basic stat to remove qui and put it somewhere?

i found aug RAs not worthy but maybe try it yourself, you are going to play around anyway. i already said what i think is best.
yes you should readjust your quickness here^^
Sat 19 Sep 2020 6:45 AM by Ulio ah ah
I landed on midgard,
a sexy hunter is coming.

Sat 19 Sep 2020 8:24 AM by Valaraukar
Ulio ah ah wrote:
Sat 19 Sep 2020 6:45 AM
I landed on midgard,
a sexy hunter is coming.



Bet it will be a Valkyn then...

Sun 20 Sep 2020 8:55 AM by Ulio ah ah
Norse =(

10 str/ 10 dex / 10 qui

Start spec: 36 ste / 39 spear/ 42 beast/ 37 bow
5L spec: 35 ste / 50 spear / 42 beast / 24 bow
Sun 20 Sep 2020 9:37 AM by Valaraukar
Ulio ah ah wrote:
Sun 20 Sep 2020 8:55 AM
Norse =(

10 str/ 10 dex / 10 qui

Start spec: 36 ste / 39 spear/ 42 beast/ 37 bow
5L spec: 35 ste / 50 spear / 42 beast / 24 bow

If you go Norse and full spear.... maybe would it be better to go Sword? Just asking, I don't know if it could be better or not, I've never tried a full melee spec on an hunter
Sun 20 Sep 2020 2:19 PM by Ulio ah ah
I'll do some tests.
using the sword I am afraid of being too penalized against the ns.
Sun 20 Sep 2020 4:38 PM by inoeth
sword spec sucks for hunters on phoenix
Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:38 AM by Siouxsie
inoeth wrote:
Sun 20 Sep 2020 4:38 PM
sword spec sucks for hunters on phoenix

It does indeed. Spear is the way to go.
Fri 13 Nov 2020 10:43 AM by Ulio ah ah
which is the best spear anytime?
Fri 13 Nov 2020 11:33 AM by inoeth
whirling spear or perforate if your strafe skillz are high
Sat 14 Nov 2020 5:53 PM by Ulio ah ah
Engage+Wounding thrust? Don't work?
Mon 16 Nov 2020 7:01 PM by inoeth
you mean for the snare?
dmg wise you lose a bit compared to engage+wounding but if you miss a wounding, which is very possible, you end up using engage several times more than you normally would do and then its better to use whirling, also its more convenient to have less styles on the bar.
Mon 16 Nov 2020 8:14 PM by Ulio ah ah
I meant by the damage.
Ok, ty.
Mon 16 Nov 2020 9:34 PM by gotwqqd
Ulio ah ah wrote:
Mon 16 Nov 2020 8:14 PM
I meant by the damage.
Ok, ty.
Whirling is more damage overtime because of hit/miss
Thu 22 Apr 2021 1:46 PM by Ulio ah ah
hello, I haven't played the hunter for a few months, has something changed for the spec or the equip?
This topic is locked and you can't reply.

Return to Midgard or the latest topics