New PvE Group Content for Feathers

Started 6 Jun 2020
by gruenesschaf
in Planned Changes
We would like to provide more encounter à la darkspire and halls of helgardh, however, it's quite difficult for us to fill an entire dungeon in a reasonable way all at once with all encounter having some interesting mechanic, usually it ends up with maybe 3 or 4 being interesting and the remaining being rather lackluster.

The idea currently is that you would port to some place where you talk to some npc to start an encounter, each trash group and the bosses in the current instances would be examples for such an encounter.
Each encounter would have a specific reward and after a certain number of encounter, e. g. 10 to 15, the run is considered completed providing the current instance completion bonus and counting towards some title or maybe it will just be you need to kill x encounter per bonus regardless of them being in one run or spread over many runs.
After each encounter the difficulty level would be raised, for each difficulty level certain encounter are possible. Please note that I'm just using the existing encounter as examples, while it's likely that many will be reused at the start. they won't necessarily be the exact same ones, anyways, for example difficulty 1 could be the first pull from darkspire or hoh and similar things and difficulty level 15 could be ogogga. There would most likely be 2 "trash" encounter followed by a boss each time.

The advantage for us here is that we could easily just add more encounter one at a time to existing difficulty levels which will then just become part of the rotation and hence provide a bit more variety without forcing us to come up with 10 or 15 encounter at once where some would most certainly just be boring.
It's also likely that later on groups will be able to start at a higher difficulty level.

To preserve the speed run aspect, each encounter would get its own leader board. Encounter will also have some way to provide feedback / ratings and based on that the difficulty rating and hence reward could be adjusted or prompt us to rework the encounter or scrap it entirely.

Some more things to spice it up later on would be having some random rotating spell / effect on all encounter for a week, e. g. this week all mobs have 20% life leech on their melee attacks or other stupid things.
Sat 6 Jun 2020 7:22 AM by Chaskha
I like that you're boiling with ideas.

I like PvE even if PvP is for me the ultimate DAoC experience. I'm just concerned that it is rather difficult to find DS runs with correct setup.
Could you go in the direction you had with your mob waves events where you had a group maker algorithm in place ?

Anyway, more phoenix specific experiences is a PLUS for me, thanks for all the work
Sat 6 Jun 2020 7:30 AM by Ardri
What about the style changes?
Sat 6 Jun 2020 7:46 AM by keen
Very good idea to have some new pve content after a while. I can see this spicing things up easily.

Does the new instance also provide 1%xp permanent xp bonus? Otherwise it will be hard to compete with ds and hoh.
Sat 6 Jun 2020 8:26 AM by Nashqq
Might be worth looking at a few of the TOA artifact encounters if you're looking for inspiration on different types of challenging encounters you can make
Sat 6 Jun 2020 9:51 AM by Kaziera
I think those wave encounters could be a good thing, but then dont take the existing ones pls.

I would like to see something like a dungeon made of wave encounters. With a Boss at the end also spawning adds. Like onyxia e.g.
Sat 6 Jun 2020 11:30 AM by amnvex
Nashqq wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 8:26 AM
Might be worth looking at a few of the TOA artifact encounters if you're looking for inspiration on different types of challenging encounters you can make

ToA is good inspiration, minus its changes to core mechanics of the game.

+1
Sat 6 Jun 2020 12:46 PM by Toss
comparing to World of Warcrafts Mythic+ System wich i kinda love PVE wise

I dont know how editing abilities etc in Daoc works! But i can give an explanation about the Mythic+ system in WOW wich i think is Fun while keeping the dungeon kinda Same.

* Mythic+ applies to any dungeon you chose (instanced)
* You need to cleara specific amount % of mobs (say 60%) to complete the dungeon
* Its timed, you have f.ex 30mins to complete the dungeon else you fail the completion-reward
* After Mythic+ Dungeon level 1 is completed, you get a 'key' wich unlocks next level = harder mobs = better rewards

Now for the fun part...

Each week you get random Affix and Suffix on the dungeon. For example in Daoc would be. Mobs Randomly f.ex Nearsight, Disease, Dot, Lifedrain, Doublehit, Mezz, Stun, Root... And the harder dungeons you go, the more Affixes you get.

The idea with Darkspire and HOH i think is very fun. But once people learn the machanics its not challenging anymore so you can just Farm it.

What i loved with WOW's Mythic+ is that you really had to push and min-max things to actually beat the timer at higher levels. Lets say you have 30mins to complete Darkspire, for each level of difficult you get better ROG? Say level 1 gives 60 rog, then 65, 70, 75, 80, 85 or however you wanna do it. Or other rewards? Mythical slot?
Would love to see the Mythical slot being used for something minor... f.ex 2% Melee resists? 2% Spell resist? But nothing like on live...

Lets say mobs in Darkspire are just like now but for each level you add 10% HP, 10% dmg and just go endlessly high on that or like you said you can just have a room with Waves increasing in difficult

Some links for ideas...

WOW Mythic+ Affixes: https://www.wowhead.com/affixes
Explanation how Mythic+ Works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur2yYZIdZi4


Great that you want to develop. I really miss challenging Daoc PVE since most Daoc PVE is challenging until you figure out the 'key' to the mechanics, once you do, you can semi-afk the whole thing :/
Sat 6 Jun 2020 2:23 PM by Bobbahunter
Thank you for showing us that you’re still 100% vested in this game.
I would like to see something to get the pvp people interested in helping and wanting to go. Possibly boss mobs could also have a chance to drop consumable items similar to the claw merchant. Or you can get something like a claw for each boss that you kill that can also spend at the claw merchant.
Sat 6 Jun 2020 3:11 PM by Aslimir
Hi,

Please use second high lvl donj in SI expension.
For exemple on Midgard make it in Trollheim or Iarnvidur to give more interest in those pve zone.

Keep work on !
Sat 6 Jun 2020 3:30 PM by Quik
Bobbahunter wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 2:23 PM
Thank you for showing us that you’re still 100% vested in this game.
I would like to see something to get the pvp people interested in helping and wanting to go. Possibly boss mobs could also have a chance to drop consumable items similar to the claw merchant. Or you can get something like a claw for each boss that you kill that can also spend at the claw merchant.

I'm good with the idea, but be careful adding so many rewards that the new dungeon eliminates everyone running all older content
Sat 6 Jun 2020 4:32 PM by nineonezero
Chaskha wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 7:22 AM
[...] I'm just concerned that it is rather difficult to find DS runs with correct setup.
Could you go in the direction you had with your mob waves events where you had a group maker algorithm in place ? [...]

totally agree, maybe a mix where you can bring 3-4 friends and the other classes matched with algorithm...

Another idea, would love some "mirror" ench, where each spawned mob is the "hidden" version of each group member class, like a sort of ghost, with same basic spells/bow/meleee... (sort of 8vs8 urself)
Sat 6 Jun 2020 4:50 PM by Nephamael
Please put in the solo/smallmen patch first, it is very important to keep the server healthy.
Sat 6 Jun 2020 5:06 PM by Nephamael
I think it would be great to have a 3rd full instance with a Hibernia theme (DS Alb, HoH Mid, The Grove or something hib??

I'll just put out some of my ideas for encounters, so you can use them if you like.
----------
A stealth encounter:One or 2 players of the group need to be stealthers and sneak through mobs to activate a Shrine or kill a yellow mob that prevents the encounter bossmobs to take dmg until they are killed/activated. In the meantime the group has to pull away the bossmobs and tank them until they can take dmg.
---------
A cc protect encounter: A NPC or a player of the group has to reach a target Portal?!/Boss to kill/activate the encounter, relying on Mezz Root and Stuns to be chained, while the group has to kill some trash or bosses.
---------
A Halgratha like encounter: A Tree Boss spreading Wisps at a random timer, that walk to a dwell (or tree on an island and wisps walk to the water in a circle) and then back to the boss to heal him. The group has to kill all Wisps before they return, so the boss doesn't get healed.
---------
A Zorsch/Rorsch like encounter: 2 or 3 bosses are /taunt able and apply marks (and maybe some other interesting stuff?) and have to be exchanged between the tanks to kill all 2-3. (My suggestion is the encounter shud be a lot shorter than what time a tankgrp needs to theoretically kill Zorsch and Rorsch, so its funny but doesn't feel grindy, maybe 1 rotation for each mob so 3 mobs 3 rotations.)
----------
Kite encounter(s): I always found kiting adds like at Beluna or Zregoo was very fun to play, especially when the overall encounter duration is rather short and doesn't feel grindy at all, like on Beluna. Having 1 or 2 in an instance is fun to play without getting boring.
----------
An Ogoga like encounter: The Warden of the Grove channels his spell and 3 colors glow on 3 shrines (blue, green, yellow should work for colorblind?!)
Everyone gets an individual color and has to run to his shrine. The colors of the 3 shrines are changing randomly every channel (the glow has to be big, so people can see it, even if someone stands on top of it).

Best regards Xpovoc/Jukaron
Sat 6 Jun 2020 5:44 PM by Quik
Randomized mobs sounds good.

Maybe even to the point 1 week it favors casters more and the next it favors melee and so on.
Sat 6 Jun 2020 9:23 PM by Ruggz
You have to stop catering yo the elite feather farmer groups..

You either make this solo farmable feathers ot scrap the idea..

This whole game is about RvR. Its alrdy completely ruined NA timezone RvR.. literally have a timezone so huge with nothing to do as a solo unless u wanna run for ages...

Give more feathers in RvR get people out there, nerf feathers from epic raids and DS by 50%.

Im sorry, and i will get shit talked for this post, but if you are play daocing for PVE, its the wrong game for you to play...

Get people out and fight for their realm, make some realm pride/lock in.. fix siege in RvR.. give us killholes in keeps not just on ramparts and roof tops where u get volleyed and cataed down instantly.. make siege ammunition craftable/bought so you dont just spam away until your team is inside...

TLDR: Bring feathers to RvR and stop with all this PvE shit
Sat 6 Jun 2020 9:49 PM by Quik
Ruggz wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 9:23 PM
You have to stop catering yo the elite feather farmer groups..

I am not even remotely elite nor is the group I do a lot of feathers with and we have no issues now that we have learned it.

I understand soloers wanting more RvR stuff, but lets stop with asking for EVERY PIECE OF CONTENT to be soloable.

And DAoC is for BOTH pve and rvr...stop trying to get them to focus on just 1.
Sat 6 Jun 2020 9:55 PM by Ruggz
Quik wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 9:49 PM
Ruggz wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 9:23 PM
You have to stop catering yo the elite feather farmer groups..

I am not even remotely elite nor is the group I do a lot of feathers with and we have no issues now that we have learned it.

I understand soloers wanting more RvR stuff, but lets stop with asking for EVERY PIECE OF CONTENT to be soloable.

And DAoC is for BOTH pve and rvr...stop trying to get them to focus on just 1.



There is already too much PvE, its useless content that draws 8 people to do stuff instanced, all social aspects disappear from the game..

Maybe you should stop catering to yourself only, you arent looking at this long term..
Feathers are useless, you dont need 30 chars tempd.. for what you so on most your PvE toons u dont need a temp..

DS is a flop, people only want certain classes across all realms.. having to play a certain char to funnel your main, is a POINTLESS system, and should be removed
Sat 6 Jun 2020 10:28 PM by Wakefield
Implement some ToA dungeons for feather raids if you want to add new feather content.

Buffing DS/HoH or adding new stuff to those instances only benefits those already specced and templated for those dungeons.
Sat 6 Jun 2020 10:34 PM by Quik
Ruggz wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 9:55 PM
Quik wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 9:49 PM
Ruggz wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 9:23 PM
You have to stop catering yo the elite feather farmer groups..

I am not even remotely elite nor is the group I do a lot of feathers with and we have no issues now that we have learned it.

I understand soloers wanting more RvR stuff, but lets stop with asking for EVERY PIECE OF CONTENT to be soloable.

And DAoC is for BOTH pve and rvr...stop trying to get them to focus on just 1.



There is already too much PvE, its useless content that draws 8 people to do stuff instanced, all social aspects disappear from the game..

Maybe you should stop catering to yourself only, you arent looking at this long term..
Feathers are useless, you dont need 30 chars tempd.. for what you so on most your PvE toons u dont need a temp..

DS is a flop, people only want certain classes across all realms.. having to play a certain char to funnel your main, is a POINTLESS system, and should be removed

Catering to myself?!?! I am literally saying to keep PvE and RvR going and to bring content to both for everyone to enjoy. YOU are the one basically trying to force people to just RvR. I am trying to create more content for those that want it and you are wanting to take it away...tell me again who wants to force their playstyle on others?!?!

A lot of people enjoy PvE in the game just like a lot of people enjoy RvR. Stop trying to force everyone to only play your way and let everyone enjoy whatever they want.
Sat 6 Jun 2020 10:44 PM by Ruggz
Quik wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 10:34 PM
Ruggz wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 9:55 PM
Quik wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 9:49 PM
I am not even remotely elite nor is the group I do a lot of feathers with and we have no issues now that we have learned it.

I understand soloers wanting more RvR stuff, but lets stop with asking for EVERY PIECE OF CONTENT to be soloable.

And DAoC is for BOTH pve and rvr...stop trying to get them to focus on just 1.



There is already too much PvE, its useless content that draws 8 people to do stuff instanced, all social aspects disappear from the game..

Maybe you should stop catering to yourself only, you arent looking at this long term..
Feathers are useless, you dont need 30 chars tempd.. for what you so on most your PvE toons u dont need a temp..

DS is a flop, people only want certain classes across all realms.. having to play a certain char to funnel your main, is a POINTLESS system, and should be removed

Catering to myself?!?! I am literally saying to keep PvE and RvR going and to bring content to both for everyone to enjoy. YOU are the one basically trying to force people to just RvR. I am trying to create more content for those that want it and you are wanting to take it away...tell me again who wants to force their playstyle on others?!?!

A lot of people enjoy PvE in the game just like a lot of people enjoy RvR. Stop trying to force everyone to only play your way and let everyone enjoy whatever they want.


You just keep repeating yourself all the time. Aint got a clue do ya bud?
Sat 6 Jun 2020 10:55 PM by Quik
Ruggz wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 10:44 PM
You just keep repeating yourself all the time. Aint got a clue do ya bud?

I keep saying we need stuff for people to do in all apsects of the game, both PvE and RvR.

You are wanting to force people to just 1 part of the game...

Yet you seem to think it is ok to force everyone to play your style only...

LOL sorry man if you are fine with that I have nothing left to offer. Good luck.
Sun 7 Jun 2020 12:44 AM by daytonchambers
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 6:55 AM
We would like to provide more encounter à la darkspire and halls of helgardh, however, it's quite difficult for us to fill an entire dungeon in a reasonable way all at once


Toggling Challenge Mode in the non-epic SI dungeons should make the mobs drop a fixed amount of feathers, split across your group/raid.

Give 50s a reason to go to those dungeons other than for sheer novelty.

You could even do this for all the classic zone dungeons, with a level cap on each dungeon's challenge mode so that level 50s couldn't simply toggle challenge in the lowest level dungeons for easy farming.

If you REALLY wanted it to be instanced you could make use of the Aurilite instance dungeon portals in the classic dungeons for that content.
Sun 7 Jun 2020 9:08 AM by Patron
Toss wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 12:46 PM
comparing to World of Warcrafts Mythic+ System wich i kinda love PVE wise

I dont know how editing abilities etc in Daoc works! But i can give an explanation about the Mythic+ system in WOW wich i think is Fun while keeping the dungeon kinda Same.

* Mythic+ applies to any dungeon you chose (instanced)
* You need to cleara specific amount % of mobs (say 60%) to complete the dungeon
* Its timed, you have f.ex 30mins to complete the dungeon else you fail the completion-reward
* After Mythic+ Dungeon level 1 is completed, you get a 'key' wich unlocks next level = harder mobs = better rewards

Now for the fun part...

Each week you get random Affix and Suffix on the dungeon. For example in Daoc would be. Mobs Randomly f.ex Nearsight, Disease, Dot, Lifedrain, Doublehit, Mezz, Stun, Root... And the harder dungeons you go, the more Affixes you get.

The idea with Darkspire and HOH i think is very fun. But once people learn the machanics its not challenging anymore so you can just Farm it.

What i loved with WOW's Mythic+ is that you really had to push and min-max things to actually beat the timer at higher levels. Lets say you have 30mins to complete Darkspire, for each level of difficult you get better ROG? Say level 1 gives 60 rog, then 65, 70, 75, 80, 85 or however you wanna do it. Or other rewards? Mythical slot?
Would love to see the Mythical slot being used for something minor... f.ex 2% Melee resists? 2% Spell resist? But nothing like on live...

Lets say mobs in Darkspire are just like now but for each level you add 10% HP, 10% dmg and just go endlessly high on that or like you said you can just have a room with Waves increasing in difficult

Some links for ideas...

WOW Mythic+ Affixes: https://www.wowhead.com/affixes
Explanation how Mythic+ Works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur2yYZIdZi4


Great that you want to develop. I really miss challenging Daoc PVE since most Daoc PVE is challenging until you figure out the 'key' to the mechanics, once you do, you can semi-afk the whole thing :/

This sounds really really awesome!!!
In this way, staff can provide a entertaining and fun rotationsystem
And maybe its possible to collect some very rare Phoenix Shards and with 100 of the Shards you can start a own special super duper bonus level

And yeah, some very low Mysthicals would very awesome too!
Sun 7 Jun 2020 9:14 AM by Patron
Oh and how about some champ spawns as in Ultima Online?
A Championspawn is created by some creaturestype of the spawn.
So undead spawn, Dragonspawn, Humanoidspawn... etc.
And there are on a altair placeholder for 16 red candles, and for 1 red candle you need to fight 4 waves.
After 4 red candles, the creatures get harder and a different con.

Make it so you need min. 5 good groups to solve.
After the 16 red candle appear, the Champion spawns. It need a very hard and rough creature with some rough abilites.
When the Champion is defeated, each player get some reward right in their backpack.
High Rog would be boring, maybe some stones, ashes, tears or something.

Oh and ofc its need to be possible for all realms to enter the champion zones, to disrupt the enemy realms raid and its need to be possible to get the reward from enemy players in case of killing them.

Would love to see that
Sun 7 Jun 2020 10:50 AM by MacPrior
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 6:55 AM
We would like to provide more encounter à la darkspire and halls of helgardh,

Really? YOU WANT more PvE encs?
Ask yourself what want a gamer on this server.
Your provided DS and HoH.
DS at least at the beginning was positive thing - 1 hour and you have same valuable ammount of feathers and even some good drops for the temp. Your nerved some classes for this instance, nerfed drop rate, made the instance much more difficult or as you told - provided more challenge.

Result?

If at the first phase there were some groups on building in front of DS, there was annonced - we triing to bild DS group, so now, after the swith to challenge mode DS is completely empty. Now it still (sometimes) visited just by small part of total PvE junkees.

You offered HoH... well most players just tried it and leave. No one is interested to do those instances. At least not in this challenge mode.

Now you want provide exactly the same thing slightly changed the conditions. For what? For yourself only? Why not? Its your time. But also right now I could promise you, this instance will stay empty after first try and forever.

Sometimes ago you promised to do PvE events on monthly basis, made the first run. Was quite OK. Why dont you take the same kind of event , change it a little and let them run 1 time a month?

Some month ago you told you will provide the style changes? Where are they? Do something what will makes server better, more comfortable. Those additional PvE-Instances are the way to dead end.
Sun 7 Jun 2020 3:15 PM by Beeblebrox
I like the idea of more PVE content(as well as RVR). However, I find DS and HOH tedious and no fun at all. I don't like how it's hard to get into a DS and HoH group if you havent done it before, preferabley many times. So please make any new content work differently from them.
Mon 8 Jun 2020 7:40 AM by Sepplord
regarding changing "affixes" that change mob/encounter behaviour weekly:

That is a really good idea, for a playerbase that is doing that content day in / day out. Constantly adapting the playstyle according to the cahnged behaviour...

In reality though a similar system (in wow) has shown that it is immensely hard to balance and as soon as you have different difficulties it becomes a shitfest of the community not bothering at all in "hard weeks" and grinding the shit out of "easy weeks". For someone trying to just see the content, you have to scedule for a easy week, because hard week there will be less groups and they aint taking noobs in hard week, etc...
It can quickly turn into content that is only available in certain timeframes (which is the worst thing imo in a game), not because that is the intention, but because of the affixes having a bigger influence than the base-encounters
Mon 8 Jun 2020 7:59 AM by Centenario
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 6:55 AM
We would like to provide more encounter à la darkspire and halls of helgardh, however, it's quite difficult for us to fill an entire dungeon in a reasonable way all at once with all encounter having some interesting mechanic, usually it ends up with maybe 3 or 4 being interesting and the remaining being rather lackluster.

We need to make sure that this PvE content is not only available to the usual classes. On Albion, the scout, minstrel, infil, cabalist, armsman, mercenary usually cannot do HoH or DS. I think on Midgard, the Hunter has trouble finding groups.

gruenesschaf wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 6:55 AM
The idea currently is that you would port to some place where you talk to some npc to start an encounter, each trash group and the bosses in the current instances would be examples for such an encounter.
There would be a HUB, where there are maybe 25 different NPCs, each one starting a different encounter.
This hub would need to be instance group-locked and each NPC disapear if the group wipes. (cant access NPC to come back after death)


gruenesschaf wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 6:55 AM
Each encounter would have a specific reward and after a certain number of encounter, e. g. 10 to 15, the run is considered completed providing the current instance completion bonus and counting towards some title or maybe it will just be you need to kill x encounter per bonus regardless of them being in one run or spread over many runs.
The NPC for encounter #7 would have 5 options [Beginner - Level 0] ; [Amateur - Level 1] ; [Adept - Level 2] ; [Veteran] ; [Expert], each difficulty level increases reward points.
Then you would be able to spend reward points to choose rewards:
- Polished 100% ROG = 15 reward points
- 20k feather = 10 reward points
- 10% instance bonus = 20 reward points
- Draught of Combined Forces = 1 reward point
- 10k bounty points = 6 reward points
- 1plat = 2 reward points

Similar to tasks, you get bonus reward points from gaining reward points:
After 10 points daily u get 1 extra point, after 20 points you get 2 bonus, etc...
The first encounter you complete gives +0 the second +1, etc...

Maybe some encounters cannot be done above rank 3 cause they are too basic and could be abused. (farm 1 encounter and recreate group over and over)

gruenesschaf wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 6:55 AM
After each encounter the difficulty level would be raised, for each difficulty level certain encounter are possible. Please note that I'm just using the existing encounter as examples, while it's likely that many will be reused at the start. they won't necessarily be the exact same ones, anyways, for example difficulty 1 could be the first pull from darkspire or hoh and similar things and difficulty level 15 could be ogogga. There would most likely be 2 "trash" encounter followed by a boss each time.

This is the most difficult thing to balance, people don't want to hit damage sponges, some realms have clear advantages (celerity in mid, aoe in hib, necro in alb)
Maybe give a maximum number of death, or a shorter timer or harder to hold the aggro or increased number of adds to manage/kill.


gruenesschaf wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 6:55 AM
The advantage for us here is that we could easily just add more encounter one at a time to existing difficulty levels which will then just become part of the rotation and hence provide a bit more variety without forcing us to come up with 10 or 15 encounter at once where some would most certainly just be boring.
It's also likely that later on groups will be able to start at a higher difficulty level.


gruenesschaf wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 6:55 AM
To preserve the speed run aspect, each encounter would get its own leader board. Encounter will also have some way to provide feedback / ratings and based on that the difficulty rating and hence reward could be adjusted or prompt us to rework the encounter or scrap it entirely.

gruenesschaf wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 6:55 AM
Some more things to spice it up later on would be having some random rotating spell / effect on all encounter for a week, e. g. this week all mobs have 20% life leech on their melee attacks or other stupid things.
I have also played the hearthstone dungeon runs, in which after each successful encounter, you can choose an upgrade for your group:
- Increased HP, melee damage, spell damage, mana pool, healing
- Increased attack speed, crit chance, block chance, cast speed
- slow movement speed of monsters
- increased proc chance
This could make each encounter feel different, maybe allow some low groups to try higher content, it could also make people stay in the run for longer.
Mon 8 Jun 2020 7:09 PM by Citian
Make it so that groups or solos can enjoy this and not have it become a matter of efficiency. Groups receive less. They kill faster. Solos receive more more. They kill slower. Smallman, 4man, 6man, a simple division.

The basis for the dungeons could be like the catacombs aurulite personal dungeons: no method of griefing possible, allows for control of difficulty and uniformity, and there can be a 'boss' or not.

The subject of the dungeons could be anything if you include the taskmaster teleportation system which would allow for people to see places they havent for some time or perhaps for the first time.

I like the idea if its implemented fairly and allows for maximum participation.
Mon 8 Jun 2020 7:40 PM by Quik
Citian wrote:
Mon 8 Jun 2020 7:09 PM
Make it so that groups or solos can enjoy this and not have it become a matter of efficiency. Groups receive less. They kill faster. Solos receive more more. They kill slower. Smallman, 4man, 6man, a simple division.

The basis for the dungeons could be like the catacombs aurulite personal dungeons: no method of griefing possible, allows for control of difficulty and uniformity, and there can be a 'boss' or not.

The subject of the dungeons could be anything if you include the taskmaster teleportation system which would allow for people to see places they havent for some time or perhaps for the first time.

I like the idea if its implemented fairly and allows for maximum participation.

I do think a solo version would be great but not sure how you would implement it fairly?

Healers/Bards/Clerics might have severe issues soloing this...melee might do it ok and then BD's/Necro/Ani might breeze through.

I don't think making it soloable is the answer, but maybe duo at the least? At least Duo would let every class find a complimentary class to duo with.

Any way to increase mob health/resists as you add more people?

I don't think it should just give more feathers with fewer people. The game rewards groups for efficiency for XP and RvR and it should for feathers as well. It should maybe just reward a certain amount of feathers per mob or per player and end there. The more people, the faster you kill the better the rewards. If you want to duo you can, but it may not give as much reward.
Mon 8 Jun 2020 8:20 PM by Citian
Quik wrote:
Mon 8 Jun 2020 7:40 PM
1) I do think a solo version would be great but not sure how you would implement it fairly?
2) Healers/Bards/Clerics might have severe issues soloing this...melee might do it ok and then BD's/Necro/Ani might breeze through.
3) I don't think making it soloable is the answer, but maybe duo at the least? At least Duo would let every class find a complimentary class to duo with.
4) Any way to increase mob health/resists as you add more people?

5) I don't think it should just give more feathers with fewer people. The game rewards groups for efficiency for XP and RvR and it should for feathers as well. It should maybe just reward a certain amount of feathers per mob or per player and end there. The more people, the faster you kill the better the rewards. If you want to duo you can, but it may not give as much reward.

1) "Fairly" is in reference to a scalable model that applies to everyone and any number of people whether solo, smallman, or a full group.

2) You are correct that a BD/Ani/Necro would have a much simpler time solo'ing than a healer, however this would be offset by the innate value that a healer has and that those other classes do not offer to groups. As I said before, if you are solo you earn more feathers but at a slower rate. If you are in a group you earn fewer feathers per mob per person, but at a higher rate.

3) I disagree, I think making this idea available to everyone from solo to a full group is the best answer to this issue.

4) If these dungeons are a scalable model then yes, mobs health/resists could be adjusted for per amount of people: that was what I meant by "uniformity". The devs could adjust whether or not dungeons get progressively harder or stay the same throughout an entire 'cave' or what meets the stipulations for an increase in difficulty. But perhaps the easiest scalable term would be an increase in difficulty per the amount of people. That said, it would need to be a difficulty that does not make one group size (solo, small, full) the most efficient or people will surely min-max it so that there is basically only the illusion of choice.

We could even have difficulty settings for people that truly want some kind of challenge out of this instead of just a source of feathers that don't depend on large quantities of people in a particular time zone arranging for a certain time. These could offer better rewards and largely would be unavailable to solo or smallmans while still offering that same SI dungeon/DS/HoH circumvention.

5) You are correct regarding efficiencies surroundings groups, but this is about combating min-maxing and opening an avenue for more people to access an idea. The fact remains, and you were correct again, that due to rates presented by efficiency of groups that this would leave groups being the most efficient at gathering feathers: I have no doubts and this is as it should be. However, telling people they should join a group or get zero feathers when there is a way for them to have a comparable method to acquire them at their own pace is likely a better idea in the long run for server health.
Mon 8 Jun 2020 9:00 PM by Quik
Maybe even split the mobs randomly in some way that makes people more careful about taking all classes more.

This would be all group based, but maybe some mobs might be almost 100% spell resistant and some might be 100% melee resistant. Hell, maybe have some mobs take dmg from being healed. This would require groups take more variety.

If possible, maybe the Hib version might have mobs that take more debuff from champs just to encourage more champ involvement. Make some mobs take more scythe dmg then blades or blunt maybe to encourage VW involvement.

I hope the dev's really try to mak eit so all classes have a reason to be included. I mean come on, Hib group is almost always Druid/Bard/Hero/Offtank/Eld/Eld/Ench/Ench. Make it so other classes have reasons to be taken.
Mon 8 Jun 2020 11:00 PM by Jingo NZ
Here’s an idea (suggestion) for PVE feather encounters. This plays on the excitement of getting a rare spawn and being in the right place and the right time to capitalise on it.

There is a super rare chance that standard mob groups spawn a legendary version of the mob. This mob would have a typical behaviour of one of the world bosses. It could look like a megasized version of that mob type. It could spawn as a ghost that requires interaction before it turns aggressive and attacks you (so it doesn’t ruin normal AOE mob pulls).

Once spawned, it offers a standard feather reward (set amount, not split between between players) for every player that takes part in the kill. However, the feather reward decays very quickly over time; for example if you manage to kill it within 5 mins of it’s spawn you get a lot of feathers. If you kill it 30 mins after it’s spawn you get just a few feathers. No other loot, so no need to minimise the number of people in the fight.

There would be a mechanism to encourage only players from an appropriate level range to participate. For example AOE 1 min stun (or instakill) players outside of the level range that are within 2500 units. The level range of the mob could be text within the NPC name.

The chance of mob spawn could be based on timers and when the last legendary mob spawned in that zone. This encourages variety so it is more than just the regular AOE farm mobs that are spawning legendary monsters.

I expect players will send this sort of message in region: “Legendary Cyclops just spawned in Lyonesse, lvl 37-42 range. Get yourselves here cos we are pulling in 5 min!”

These mobs also give massive wads of exp.
Tue 9 Jun 2020 1:58 AM by Ruggz
Jingo NZ wrote:
Mon 8 Jun 2020 11:00 PM
Here’s an idea (suggestion) for PVE feather encounters. This plays on the excitement of getting a rare spawn and being in the right place and the right time to capitalise on it.

There is a super rare chance that standard mob groups spawn a legendary version of the mob. This mob would have a typical behaviour of one of the world bosses. It could look like a megasized version of that mob type. It could spawn as a ghost that requires interaction before it turns aggressive and attacks you (so it doesn’t ruin normal AOE mob pulls).

Once spawned, it offers a standard feather reward (set amount, not split between between players) for every player that takes part in the kill. However, the feather reward decays very quickly over time; for example if you manage to kill it within 5 mins of it’s spawn you get a lot of feathers. If you kill it 30 mins after it’s spawn you get just a few feathers. No other loot, so no need to minimise the number of people in the fight.

There would be a mechanism to encourage only players from an appropriate level range to participate. For example AOE 1 min stun (or instakill) players outside of the level range that are within 2500 units. The level range of the mob could be text within the NPC name.

The chance of mob spawn could be based on timers and when the last legendary mob spawned in that zone. This encourages variety so it is more than just the regular AOE farm mobs that are spawning legendary monsters.

I expect players will send this sort of message in region: “Legendary Cyclops just spawned in Lyonesse, lvl 37-42 range. Get yourselves here cos we are pulling in 5 min!”

These mobs also give massive wads of exp.


No offense to you sir, but this is a horrible idea, feathers should be an endgame thing first of all.
The required coding for this is way out of proportion, its the whole game dynamic.

The reason they wanna make hoh ds n such, is ao they dont have to do excessive amount of rework or coding.. they create thosr instances themselves mob wise placement etc..


There is an abnormal amount of over ambigious suggestions, people seem to forget that it might be 1 dude working on this, in his free time, for no payment..
Keep it simple yet fun and engaging.



Keep the current hoh and ds for 8mans to spass out and pad their ego in there.
Buff drop rates of classic dungeons and SI dungeons, REUSE content thats here, make it worthwhile..

Any newer additions of dungeon farm ment for feathers should be availible to solos, duos trios, but thats where it stops...

How about uncapping feather gain in RvR, or atleast raising cap to a more suitable amount.

Sure 8mans might cry, but they could get rewarded with lets say festhers per gvg played they killed.
Lets face it tho, the 8mans just loove to kill solos or smallmans YOINKZ
Tue 9 Jun 2020 1:14 PM by Chihuahua
Would be cool to have some broader mechanics in there aswell, for example a steather has to activate an encounter (go through room full of mobs in stealth to trigger the encounter, which can only be attacked in melee)
Wed 17 Jun 2020 4:51 AM by jhaerik
What about some content for the solo folks, or folks that play classes that don't fit the optimal group pve mold?
Wed 17 Jun 2020 11:34 AM by labra
Bring back all TOA zones (ML10 tbd).

Set all encounters (ML/Arties) to reward feathers scaling with difficulty, trash mob only for xp/fancy .

Everyone will be able to get some feathers, even solo players (wich would stay way lower than in a bg encounter obviously).

With jewelry changes and the need for feathers increasing, it would be a good thing I believe
Wed 17 Jun 2020 3:47 PM by watbrif
labra wrote:
Wed 17 Jun 2020 11:34 AM
Bring back all TOA zones (ML10 tbd).

Set all encounters (ML/Arties) to reward feathers scaling with difficulty, trash mob only for xp/fancy .

Everyone will be able to get some feathers, even solo players (wich would stay way lower than in a bg encounter obviously).

With jewelry changes and the need for feathers increasing, it would be a good thing I believe

I really would like to see the toa zones again (as pve zones). Take away artefacts and MLs and toa was actually a very well designed addon, artwork design and all that. Given the player numbers, you probably don't want to empty the classic/si zones too much. But there should be space for creating high level content for gaining feathers - especially for "normal" groups (in contrast to ds/hoh) and raids.
Tue 23 Jun 2020 10:48 PM by Razork
Ruggz wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 9:23 PM
You have to stop catering yo the elite feather farmer groups..

You either make this solo farmable feathers ot scrap the idea..

This whole game is about RvR. Its alrdy completely ruined NA timezone RvR.. literally have a timezone so huge with nothing to do as a solo unless u wanna run for ages...

Give more feathers in RvR get people out there, nerf feathers from epic raids and DS by 50%.

Im sorry, and i will get shit talked for this post, but if you are play daocing for PVE, its the wrong game for you to play...

Get people out and fight for their realm, make some realm pride/lock in.. fix siege in RvR.. give us killholes in keeps not just on ramparts and roof tops where u get volleyed and cataed down instantly.. make siege ammunition craftable/bought so you dont just spam away until your team is inside...

TLDR: Bring feathers to RvR and stop with all this PvE shit

probably if you like only pvp, you're on the wrong server and you should go to an instant 50 server.
Tue 23 Jun 2020 11:16 PM by Razork
watbrif wrote:
Wed 17 Jun 2020 3:47 PM
labra wrote:
Wed 17 Jun 2020 11:34 AM
Bring back all TOA zones (ML10 tbd).

Set all encounters (ML/Arties) to reward feathers scaling with difficulty, trash mob only for xp/fancy .

Everyone will be able to get some feathers, even solo players (wich would stay way lower than in a bg encounter obviously).

With jewelry changes and the need for feathers increasing, it would be a good thing I believe

I really would like to see the toa zones again (as pve zones). Take away artefacts and MLs and toa was actually a very well designed addon, artwork design and all that. Given the player numbers, you probably don't want to empty the classic/si zones too much. But there should be space for creating high level content for gaining feathers - especially for "normal" groups (in contrast to ds/hoh) and raids.


TOA was great, probably the biggest and most beautiful expansion in the history of all mmorpg, do not implement TOA because the casual fanboys of the classic servers threaten not to play anymore is the wrong thing you can do, daoc of the official servers did not die because TOA came out, daoc with the release of TOA literally exploded, with TOA reaches the maximum epicity that a mmorpg of this caliber can reach, it is not pve or pvp, if you talk about daoc always if you know what daoc is, then you would know that daoc is 80% pve and 20% pvp, but as usual I accept criticism about this because I understand the octusion that you have when you get to a certain age and you have no more time. I agree with every single person of you the PvP of daoc is the most beautiful PvP ever created, there is nothing like that but we all know this and it's useless to talk about it, but let's talk about the PVE and the structure that leads to the growth of the character and everything that revolves around it, if you are a player who does not like pve then you have never tried to challenge yourself, the beautiful thing that allows you daoc and allows you 100% unlike other mmorpg is to be able to change the goal in pve, to try new things, to try with new compositions or reduce them to a minimum to maximize the drops, the beautiful thing that makes the pve di daoc beautiful is the rarity of the items, which unfortunately with the complaints of the instant 50 fanboy RVR RVR RVR had to lose because you always want everything and immediately and you do not know how to look at the thousands of nuances that a mmorpg like this can generate, the sidi armour in the golden age on live was worth 200 platinum, and very few people wore it because this was daoc, this was what made the game beautiful, the uniqueness and the ability of others to approach this, I'm really happy that there is a daoc server where you can play and I thank all of you who complain about TOA because you're part of all this anyway, but every day I find it harder and harder to think that I'm playing in a server that is practically closer to an ISTANT 50 server, rather than a meritocratic server, I do not rightly ask to lengthen all the timing of daoc and make the game impossible for all casual players (which I am) but it would be nice to see some news like TOA to make the game even more interesting, yes the ML are very long, but how many days you have to spend 2 days maybe to do all the 100 steps, so much zerg practically everything on daoc, and for the items as you think it takes maybe halving or eliminating the xp of the artifact, I find it stupid to continue playing an incomplete version of a game that could express its potential at 360 degrees, it would also benefit the market that currently makes shit, when everyone has a finished tp, the rog items and all the stupid farm that revolves around the loops and zerged dungeons, they will no longer make sense, everything will be dead and the only thing that will be done to the delight of the instant 50 fanboy rvr, will be the rvr. I really hope in a re-evaluation of the longevity of the server by the administrators, because this server will continue to shine and it is something that I hope, but slowly the light will fade because there will be no more forks objectives except for the 12 rr, I am sorry to have you taken all this time to read, but I thought it right to express a free thought from an impartial person who likes pvp and pve equally. Thank you
and remember that daoc died not from toa but from EA's hand when everything that people had sweated had become available simply by making PVP.
Tue 23 Jun 2020 11:22 PM by gotwqqd
Razork wrote:
Tue 23 Jun 2020 11:16 PM
watbrif wrote:
Wed 17 Jun 2020 3:47 PM
labra wrote:
Wed 17 Jun 2020 11:34 AM
Bring back all TOA zones (ML10 tbd).

Set all encounters (ML/Arties) to reward feathers scaling with difficulty, trash mob only for xp/fancy .

Everyone will be able to get some feathers, even solo players (wich would stay way lower than in a bg encounter obviously).

With jewelry changes and the need for feathers increasing, it would be a good thing I believe

I really would like to see the toa zones again (as pve zones). Take away artefacts and MLs and toa was actually a very well designed addon, artwork design and all that. Given the player numbers, you probably don't want to empty the classic/si zones too much. But there should be space for creating high level content for gaining feathers - especially for "normal" groups (in contrast to ds/hoh) and raids.


TOA was great, probably the biggest and most beautiful expansion in the history of all mmorpg, do not implement TOA because the casual fanboys of the classic servers threaten not to play anymore is the wrong thing you can do, daoc of the official servers did not die because TOA came out, daoc with the release of TOA literally exploded, with TOA reaches the maximum epicity that a mmorpg of this caliber can reach, it is not pve or pvp, if you talk about daoc always if you know what daoc is, then you would know that daoc is 80% pve and 20% pvp, but as usual I accept criticism about this because I understand the octusion that you have when you get to a certain age and you have no more time. I agree with every single person of you the PvP of daoc is the most beautiful PvP ever created, there is nothing like that but we all know this and it's useless to talk about it, but let's talk about the PVE and the structure that leads to the growth of the character and everything that revolves around it, if you are a player who does not like pve then you have never tried to challenge yourself, the beautiful thing that allows you daoc and allows you 100% unlike other mmorpg is to be able to change the goal in pve, to try new things, to try with new compositions or reduce them to a minimum to maximize the drops, the beautiful thing that makes the pve di daoc beautiful is the rarity of the items, which unfortunately with the complaints of the instant 50 fanboy RVR RVR RVR had to lose because you always want everything and immediately and you do not know how to look at the thousands of nuances that a mmorpg like this can generate, the sidi armour in the golden age on live was worth 200 platinum, and very few people wore it because this was daoc, this was what made the game beautiful, the uniqueness and the ability of others to approach this, I'm really happy that there is a daoc server where you can play and I thank all of you who complain about TOA because you're part of all this anyway, but every day I find it harder and harder to think that I'm playing in a server that is practically closer to an ISTANT 50 server, rather than a meritocratic server, I do not rightly ask to lengthen all the timing of daoc and make the game impossible for all casual players (which I am) but it would be nice to see some news like TOA to make the game even more interesting, yes the ML are very long, but how many days you have to spend 2 days maybe to do all the 100 steps, so much zerg practically everything on daoc, and for the items as you think it takes maybe halving or eliminating the xp of the artifact, I find it stupid to continue playing an incomplete version of a game that could express its potential at 360 degrees, it would also benefit the market that currently makes shit, when everyone has a finished tp, the rog items and all the stupid farm that revolves around the loops and zerged dungeons, they will no longer make sense, everything will be dead and the only thing that will be done to the delight of the instant 50 fanboy rvr, will be the rvr. I really hope in a re-evaluation of the longevity of the server by the administrators, because this server will continue to shine and it is something that I hope, but slowly the light will fade because there will be no more forks objectives except for the 12 rr, I am sorry to have you taken all this time to read, but I thought it right to express a free thought from an impartial person who likes pvp and pve equally. Thank you
and remember that daoc died not from toa but from EA's hand when everything that people had sweated had become available simply by making PVP.
Yea. It was cool, with lots of neat mechanics and quests
If they kept all those things to the pve side I’d say people would feel different about it.

But having to grind endless hours to remain competitive really was a bad idea.
And the addition of all those ml/champion mechanics was just too much in rvr
Wed 24 Jun 2020 4:30 PM by jhaerik
I hate organized PvE.

Here is an idea... give me mobs I can solo grind on my class that no one wants in their optimal pve group that consists of 4-5 classes for each realm so I don't have to spend time on an alt I don't want to play doing content I don't care to do to gear up alts.

Yes I get that you can simply grind plat and buy feather item from people with credit... but the fact you can do that to begin with already negates the entire system to begin with don't you think? It's just extra steps to the same result, and steps that exclude people at that. It's the same issue that live has today... they keep adding small areas of content that invalidate large area of content because the devs want people to play how they want them to play. At what point does it stop being QoL changes.. and it starts becoming live 2.0?

No offense but if I wanted to run WoW heroics.... I'd go play WoW.

I mean things started off as Uthgard with QoL so people flocked to it... the feathers were annoying but it was mostly just being semi afk in a big cluster in an SI raid and doing this a few times to get temped an go RvR. Over time though it's starting to look like more and more like a ToA clone... and.. bleh. We are just replacing p-server/classic guys with people that are too cheap to pay to play live.
Wed 24 Jun 2020 5:53 PM by watbrif
jhaerik wrote:
Wed 24 Jun 2020 4:30 PM
I mean things started off as Uthgard with QoL so people flocked to it... the feathers were annoying but it was mostly just being semi afk in a big cluster in an SI raid and doing this a few times to get temped an go RvR. Over time though it's starting to look like more and more like a ToA clone... and.. bleh. We are just replacing p-server/classic guys with people that are too cheap to pay to play live.

Ok, grandpa :p. I get that most people play daoc for rvr mainly, although I guess there's also a good number of people out there who enjoy the pve part (hence I don't accept the "go play another game" trope). Daoc has always had a strong pve component, because this is simply the easiest way to keep people entertained, in case there's no bg/solo/8vs8 action (whatever you prefer). There's only so much you can do to provide new content for rvr (class changes?), but most people prefer a server that gives you new things to do. It simply makes no sense to have a pve part that is utterly boring and repetitive, because people will leave if that's the case. Either leave out the pve completely or make it an interesting part of the game - it's either/or. I don't think anyone asks to turn the server "into live", with all the the additional things people had to do in order to equip their chars for rvr. But I don't think it's too much to ask to make the way to get feathers more interesting (there's a reason why people are semi-afk on those SI raids...). Giving solo classes (not cabba/necro etc.) more of a chance to "grind" feathers would be a good idea for instance.
Wed 24 Jun 2020 9:12 PM by jhaerik
watbrif wrote:
Wed 24 Jun 2020 5:53 PM
jhaerik wrote:
Wed 24 Jun 2020 4:30 PM
I mean things started off as Uthgard with QoL so people flocked to it... the feathers were annoying but it was mostly just being semi afk in a big cluster in an SI raid and doing this a few times to get temped an go RvR. Over time though it's starting to look like more and more like a ToA clone... and.. bleh. We are just replacing p-server/classic guys with people that are too cheap to pay to play live.

Ok, grandpa :p. I get that most people play daoc for rvr mainly, although I guess there's also a good number of people out there who enjoy the pve part (hence I don't accept the "go play another game" trope). Daoc has always had a strong pve component, because this is simply the easiest way to keep people entertained, in case there's no bg/solo/8vs8 action (whatever you prefer). There's only so much you can do to provide new content for rvr (class changes?), but most people prefer a server that gives you new things to do. It simply makes no sense to have a pve part that is utterly boring and repetitive, because people will leave if that's the case. Either leave out the pve completely or make it an interesting part of the game - it's either/or. I don't think anyone asks to turn the server "into live", with all the the additional things people had to do in order to equip their chars for rvr. But I don't think it's too much to ask to make the way to get feathers more interesting (there's a reason why people are semi-afk on those SI raids...). Giving solo classes (not cabba/necro etc.) more of a chance to "grind" feathers would be a good idea for instance.

They are semi afk because the only reason they are there is to get feathers. They don't want to PvE.
Also if the only reason you are doing pve is there is nothing to do out in rvr.... then it makes more sense to add more SOLO content... not group content.
Also all the "new" pve stuff mostly just invalidated much of the old pve content. Reduced it to running the same 2 instances over and over like it's a wow beta.
Thu 25 Jun 2020 7:48 PM by gruenesschaf
jhaerik wrote:
Wed 24 Jun 2020 9:12 PM
They are semi afk because the only reason they are there is to get feathers. They don't want to PvE.
Also if the only reason you are doing pve is there is nothing to do out in rvr.... then it makes more sense to add more SOLO content... not group content.
Also all the "new" pve stuff mostly just invalidated much of the old pve content. Reduced it to running the same 2 instances over and over like it's a wow beta.

We have a single pve currency, feathers, and only added different ways to obtain them. Even after the introduction of DS / HoH you can still get feathers in the epic dungeons, you can still get feathers from the dragon and you can still get feathers from the SI / Classic loop and after this system here hits you will still be able to collect feathers via all the already existing ways.
Fri 26 Jun 2020 4:13 PM by joshisanonymous
I'm not a fan of instanced zones in MMOs. It seems like a good balance right now with only DS and HoH as instances, but if more dungeons are made into places where feathers can be obtained, I'd like to see it be done somehow in a persistent, non-instanced dungeon. I understand the planned change here wouldn't work without instancing -- and it does sound like a nice idea for DS and HoH -- but I just wanted to voice a preference for non-instanced zones. I'm guessing I'm not the only one who feels that way.
Fri 26 Jun 2020 5:22 PM by jhaerik
gruenesschaf wrote:
Thu 25 Jun 2020 7:48 PM
jhaerik wrote:
Wed 24 Jun 2020 9:12 PM
They are semi afk because the only reason they are there is to get feathers. They don't want to PvE.
Also if the only reason you are doing pve is there is nothing to do out in rvr.... then it makes more sense to add more SOLO content... not group content.
Also all the "new" pve stuff mostly just invalidated much of the old pve content. Reduced it to running the same 2 instances over and over like it's a wow beta.

We have a single pve currency, feathers, and only added different ways to obtain them. Even after the introduction of DS / HoH you can still get feathers in the epic dungeons, you can still get feathers from the dragon and you can still get feathers from the SI / Classic loop and after this system here hits you will still be able to collect feathers via all the already existing ways.

My real point though is this... what was wrong with Plat being the only currency? What exactly did feathers change for the better? I mean feathers are just an extra annoying step that adds 1p = 4-5k'ish feather + looking for some guy with credit. It adds absolutely nothing to the game other than annoyance. Currency is currency. As long as it's trade-able it's just an extra hoop to jump through. End of the say it's either grind mobs, or grind mobs and trade currency around.
Mon 29 Jun 2020 3:04 PM by Beeblebrox
labra wrote:
Wed 17 Jun 2020 11:34 AM
Bring back all TOA zones (ML10 tbd).

Set all encounters (ML/Arties) to reward feathers scaling with difficulty, trash mob only for xp/fancy .

Everyone will be able to get some feathers, even solo players (wich would stay way lower than in a bg encounter obviously).

With jewelry changes and the need for feathers increasing, it would be a good thing I believe

I didn't like this idea at first but it has grown on me. I found some of it just too tiring taking way too long and requiring too many people. TOA had some content you could do with just a group or even solo if I recall. An additional benefit is the code is already there for it (probably with changes though). It may not be practical but that is for the devs to decide. I wouldn't want for rvr BGs to be curtailed significantly because of PVE content.
Mon 29 Jun 2020 4:57 PM by labra
I'm not dev.
But if I was I would set TOA for pve content and Laby for pvp content. I believe laby center is a great arena setup for small/solo pvp.
Tue 14 Jul 2020 1:58 PM by DJ2000
The idea by itself is fine.
But look, how many of the current classes are sought after in DS? HoH? and with this new Instance?
Afaik, this provides only a change to "feathers acquired+time invested" formula of existing DS/HoH Players.
In no way does this help with class diversity doing these Content activitys or widen the playerbase to others that wouldn't do DS/HoH BEFORE introducing this.
If it is not to replace any other content (the amount of feathers will decide about that), than it's literally a palette change, just a change of scenery.

Clearly, this new introduction has some other goals in mind than any of the above.
Tue 14 Jul 2020 10:47 PM by MacPrior
TOA killed DAoC. TOA forced the community at that time most PVP interested community to PvE, to lot of PVE. Lot of Guilds and even Allies leaved the game because of that.
Just keep in mind -- keep always balance between RvR and PvE.
And if it should be a PvE event -- just set something like X-Mass tree or ester rabbit on live. It was very well coming.
Tue 14 Jul 2020 11:15 PM by Gildar
MacPrior wrote:
Tue 14 Jul 2020 10:47 PM
TOA killed DAoC. TOA forced the community at that time most PVP interested community to PvE, to lot of PVE. Lot of Guilds and even Allies leaved the game because of that.
Just keep in mind -- keep always balance between RvR and PvE.
And if it should be a PvE event -- just set something like X-Mass tree or ester rabbit on live. It was very well coming.

Agree 100 %

TOA killed DAOC and i dont wanna see TOA again at all ... also of only for pve.
We have all the pve de need on this GREAT server ... exp in dung, classic + SI zone, even in frontier ... not to mention epic dung raid, DS, HOH ...
With QoL exp is fast and fun... NO more pve instances pls and over all NO MORE content drawing ppl from RvR pls or server dies ...

No new drops must have for RvR, no artifacts and so on ... leave ppl fight ...

Already now pve zones are nearly empty ... why bring up more ? And pls no more solo content ... ppl dont Group up and go semi afk ...

Focus on bugs and balancing RvR content (necro pets non visibile in wall, per entering in closed towers and so on ... dont waste time of Devs in more solo/pve content pls
Wed 15 Jul 2020 11:24 AM by watbrif
MacPrior wrote:
Tue 14 Jul 2020 10:47 PM
TOA killed DAoC. TOA forced the community at that time most PVP interested community to PvE, to lot of PVE. Lot of Guilds and even Allies leaved the game because of that.
Just keep in mind -- keep always balance between RvR and PvE.
And if it should be a PvE event -- just set something like X-Mass tree or ester rabbit on live. It was very well coming.

I distinctively remember the heyday of DAoC - population-wise - as being 2004 and 2005 and definitely post-ToA. DaoC was never "killed" but experienced the same population decline as other MMORPGs have. After 5-6 years, the game had run its course (there was also no expansion past 2006/7). With the advent of casual MMOs there was also no influx of new players to replenish DAoC's tiny player base. So, DAoC would have declined anyway, with or without ToA.


I'm just saying this because I don't agree with the whole "Toa is totally evil" narrative. Toa still has aspects that would help to provide the sever's casual player base with content.
Mon 17 Aug 2020 2:09 PM by Centenario
watbrif wrote:
Wed 15 Jul 2020 11:24 AM
I'm just saying this because I don't agree with the whole "Toa is totally evil" narrative. Toa still has aspects that would help to provide the sever's casual player base with content.

For me the "haydays" of DAoC were 2002-2003 up to the release of ToA. Except for the artefact skins and collection.

I would like to know if something has already been decided, or is being worked on for this new pve content currently.
@Devs/GMs
Mon 17 Aug 2020 2:15 PM by inoeth
MacPrior wrote:
Tue 14 Jul 2020 10:47 PM
TOA killed DAoC. TOA forced the community at that time most PVP interested community to PvE, to lot of PVE. Lot of Guilds and even Allies leaved the game because of that.
Just keep in mind -- keep always balance between RvR and PvE.
And if it should be a PvE event -- just set something like X-Mass tree or ester rabbit on live. It was very well coming.

when you look at the numbers toa actually increased the number of players ath that time, what really made an impact was the release of wow.
but yeah i agree toa was very pve heavy in the beginning, but it did not kill daoc


some ot: i would like to have some kind of solo encounter for feathers. this would be cool for ppl that dont have DS/HOH classes and also dont need so many feathers.
something like the lvling dungeons from live: you take a quast, go to the dungeon, do what you were hired for and get the reward... maybe 2k for 20min work?
Mon 17 Aug 2020 6:34 PM by Centenario
I think solo instanced dungeons/wings should never be implemented.
Tue 18 Aug 2020 6:19 AM by inoeth
Centenario wrote:
Mon 17 Aug 2020 6:34 PM
I think solo instanced dungeons/wings should never be implemented.

any reason or just random thought?
Tue 18 Aug 2020 6:58 AM by Centenario
Less people in the open-world
Some arbitrage farming (you can't do the loop for feather without taking the time to form a group, and you have to have the area free for your group)
If we would do the equivalent of the boss loop for a solo, then he would be able for farm feathers consistently, by himself.
When people farm solo, there is a higher chance that they would use macros to farm, if nobody can watch them they can even bot...

I remember I came back to DAoC live between 2004-2012, only one month of subscription, I was able to level from lvl 1 to 50 in less than a day, and only in the solo instanced dungeon. Then I had enough currency to buy all artefacts, I was templated easily. This was such a poor experience, made me stop playing right away.

What is rare is expensive. If farming is easy and you can do it solo, then the value goes down. Same with exp, gear, RR.
Tue 18 Aug 2020 7:49 AM by inoeth
Centenario wrote:
Tue 18 Aug 2020 6:58 AM
Less people in the open-world
Some arbitrage farming (you can't do the loop for feather without taking the time to form a group, and you have to have the area free for your group)
If we would do the equivalent of the boss loop for a solo, then he would be able for farm feathers consistently, by himself.
When people farm solo, there is a higher chance that they would use macros to farm, if nobody can watch them they can even bot...

I remember I came back to DAoC live between 2004-2012, only one month of subscription, I was able to level from lvl 1 to 50 in less than a day, and only in the solo instanced dungeon. Then I had enough currency to buy all artefacts, I was templated easily. This was such a poor experience, made me stop playing right away.

What is rare is expensive. If farming is easy and you can do it solo, then the value goes down. Same with exp, gear, RR.

maybe read my initial suggestion again?! i said 2k for 20 min, that is actually really bad considering a good DS grp does about 10k in 25min. so it is still more effective to grp up, but for ppl like me who like to afk alot, these grp play is stressfull sometimes.

this is not about making it easier, just to have more options.

btw if you like to grind for month, you are maybe wrong here... there is another server which provides alot of pain, thats maybe what you are looking for.
Tue 18 Aug 2020 8:32 AM by Centenario
Centenario wrote:
Mon 17 Aug 2020 2:09 PM
I would like to know if something has already been decided, or is being worked on for this new pve content currently.
@Devs/GMs

I can work on designing a few DS like encounters if its needed.
Thu 3 Sep 2020 3:10 PM by Komaf
DAoC is a game built on RvR - why not take this opportunity to provide more incentive for RELIC takes (x amount of feathers for participation), Keep DEFENSE (how often does anyone care about defending a keep?) where, the longer you defend, the more feathers pool into the BG, which, of course, would have to be actively participating, not just a scout down the hill from the keep in afk stealth...Not sure how that would work.

Point is RvR incentives = feathers.


Makes sense


/my 2 coppers
Sat 7 Nov 2020 7:01 AM by Six
i really couldnt even pick a single post to reply to because there was so many talking about how exclusive the current pve content is. what im confused about is how could you possibly say that when the 8man scene is way more exclusive, hell most of the reason i enjoy the current instances is because rvr excludes the majority of classes/specs except for the zerg. why do you think people zerg in the first place? because the meta is very small and tbh even in a zerg it can be pretty difficult to get a group with an undesirable class/spec. everything in this game is exclusive and it will never change but at least i have something to do with my non stoicism toons or toons spec'd (god forbid) how i enjoy them, because when u have more options you include more of the game.

sorry to tell you guys this but the reason pvp is appealing in this game is because the attachment to your character, you dont just pick a loadout and fight a match. seriously to play an MMO and complain about pve always baffled me. there are countless games (MOBAs, war game, fighting games, driving, RTS, etc etc) that are FAR more balanced and meant strictly for skill v skill competition with set teams and no progression style advantages. any of you who think the reason pvp is appealing in this game is a secret well...its not. its a progression based game so you can progress (realm rank) beyond your enemies and smash them with just enough meat on the bone to make it seem fair.

if you need any proof for this i point you to the fact that NO insta50 server or mordered ruleset has achieved anything close to what EVERY classic (and heavy pve) server has. the same applies to the entire genre.

+1 to more pve instances, people like to have something else to do other than run in an ever increasing pack of players hoping the pack of enemy players you run into either has less players or lower rank players. clearly ds and hoh have been a success and the devs know this, one of them has even pointed out that had they took a vote on the pve instances the forum folks would have voted against it. yet the leaderboards are full every week and 90% of us do it for fun and give away half our winnings.
Sat 7 Nov 2020 7:13 PM by Cadebrennus
Add TOA, make it so that all three realms share the same TOA zone (like the frontier and ML10 boss), and have the mobs drop feathers. Also, make frontier mobs drop feathers.
Sun 8 Nov 2020 1:52 PM by SinfulByNature
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sat 6 Jun 2020 6:55 AM
We would like to provide more encounter à la darkspire and halls of helgardh, however, it's quite difficult for us to fill an entire dungeon in a reasonable way all at once with all encounter having some interesting mechanic, usually it ends up with maybe 3 or 4 being interesting and the remaining being rather lackluster.

To preserve the speed run aspect, each encounter would get its own leader board. Encounter will also have some way to provide feedback / ratings and based on that the difficulty rating and hence reward could be adjusted or prompt us to rework the encounter or scrap it entirely.

Some more things to spice it up later on would be having some random rotating spell / effect on all encounter for a week, e. g. this week all mobs have 20% life leech on their melee attacks or other stupid things.

I agree with this suggestions of using ToA zones/ encounters.
Like Atens shield island. Chest spawns random encounter so group has to adapt and Adjust every single run. Open and Clear 10 chests out of the like 40 or w/e were on the island. to Clear your run. Generates Randomness and Makes it interesting. If that was even possible.
Fri 20 Nov 2020 9:25 PM by soremir
I do love the idea of more PVE content, and think this is a great idea. It would be fun to have something like the PVE event as well, where there could be a leaderboard for how many waves were survived, which could be a fun thing to compete on too.

For more PVE too though, I would love more large bosses like the dragon. Some of the encounters in TOA would be great for this. The thing about fighting really hard single-PVE bosses is it feels epic!
Sat 21 Nov 2020 1:54 AM by Hedien
The reality of the post is :
- Some people really liked ToA environment. Adding PVE content in some of these zone would really make people happy, without disrupting pvp experience.
- Shorter fights vs. long dungeon is also beneficial for quick action vs. tiresome group building.
- Even if people love to say "Daoc is PVP game, stop pve", the reality is that many people enjoy pve-ing in daoc. More content, means higher sustainability of pve population.

If there is the possibility to include some pve models of ToA, like centaur/phoenix/statue, it could be cool.
Some titles linked with those encounters too.

All in favor.

Sat/Faturday.
Sat 21 Nov 2020 2:43 AM by Runental
Banished quest with imba reward for a relic take!!!
Sat 21 Nov 2020 1:22 PM by Cadebrennus
Hedien wrote:
Sat 21 Nov 2020 1:54 AM
The reality of the post is :
- Some people really liked ToA environment. Adding PVE content in some of these zone would really make people happy, without disrupting pvp experience.
- Shorter fights vs. long dungeon is also beneficial for quick action vs. tiresome group building.
- Even if people love to say "Daoc is PVP game, stop pve", the reality is that many people enjoy pve-ing in daoc. More content, means higher sustainability of pve population.

If there is the possibility to include some pve models of ToA, like centaur/phoenix/statue, it could be cool.
Some titles linked with those encounters too.

All in favor.

Sat/Faturday.

Make TOA (no arties no MLs) a single zone accessible to all three realms like DF and ML10 encounter, but accessible 100% of the time (like ML10 encounter). That should account for some interesting PvE
Sun 22 Nov 2020 12:42 AM by Hedien
@Devs:

While on the topic, I am maining a Thane.

As of today, there are 2 variants of premade group for DS/HoH, a melee and caster version. None of these welcome a Thane. Which forces me to reroll "BD/Shaman" for easy participation. But it sucks, because I don't want to play those classes.

Extrapolating this situation to a concept. Would it be possible, when you design encounters, that all classes would add significant value. e.g. adjusted resists for specific damage type, here energy for Thane.

Sat/Faturday
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