State of light tanks. Please read and keep it positive.

Started 29 May 2020
by tibofeif
in Ask the Team
With the current class balancing in place, the light tank role is basically set to peel duty. This server gives casters higher armor factor and hitpoints innately which heavily favors pull groups as light tanks have a nerfed version of the charge mechanic. I understand why casters were given this buff as they needed survivability. However, with these changes in place, it puts Midgard at a large disadvantage in the RvR scene as it heavily relies on melee over the other realms specifically light tanks.

I personally feel there are a couple of ways of resolving this issue to create a better balance between the realms. Other suggestions are welcome however the issue stated above does exist and does need to be addressed.

Option 1: Give charge its immunity factor back. This will basically stop light tanks from being rooted/snared out of every encounter almost immediately. Obviously, if such a change was made it would need to be re-evaluated to ensure it is not overpowered and rendering casters useless.

Option 2: Remove the AF and HP buff on casters so that they cant simply be chain healed through 3 light tanks beating on them. This solution may be problematic with the high archer damage now already taking casters out with 2 arrows. I do feel if this was done archer damage would have to be reduced significantly.

Option 3: Dramatically lower root/snare times as well as set an immunity to melee snare so it cant be chained on a target over and over. Alternatively, we could make Determination affect all roots/snares as well as set an immunity timer to said cc.

Before people start flaming this post please hear me out. I love this game as much as everyone else on this server. I am a melee-oriented player that simply cannot play a caster. I do not wish to be overpowered in any shape or form. I would like fair gameplay for all that makes archers, assassins, casters, healers, tanks, and light tanks all viable in RvR. I think that we can all agree when one side or class or archetype has a large advantage people flock to it which causes imbalance especially in a game such as DAOC.

It would be wonderful to see some support on this from the community and the phoenix team as I feel if this issue is left unresolved people who are melee-oriented will simply leave the game or be forced to play a class they don't enjoy just so they can play a game they love.
Fri 29 May 2020 5:49 PM by Quik
Don't most tanks have Det? That is basically the replacement for charge, at least I always assumed it was.

Are you talking about hybrids though? Hybrids aren't what I would consider light tanks and I don't believe they ever got charge until later in DAoC.
Fri 29 May 2020 6:26 PM by Neso
The light tanks (sav, merc, bm etc) have det & stoic? Their main duty isn't to snare, but dps and snare when available. If you're getting rooted then its actually an advantage.
Are you talking about hybrid tanks (pally, reaver, champ etc?)

So you want charge with cc immunity, casters with less hp and AF AND lower root/snare timers which give melee immunity... all so you can more efficiently roll your forehead over keyboard?
Fri 29 May 2020 8:05 PM by Cadebrennus
Just get rid of PD. Problem solved, problem staying solved.
Fri 29 May 2020 10:14 PM by tibofeif
Quik wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 5:49 PM
Don't most tanks have Det? That is basically the replacement for charge, at least I always assumed it was.

Are you talking about hybrids though? Hybrids aren't what I would consider light tanks and I don't believe they ever got charge until later in DAoC.

Unfortunately, Det and stoicism do not reduce roots or melee snares. This is a large part of the problem. People often assume that Det plus stoicism makes u immune to cc. It really just makes you have reduced mez time that's it I believe. If Det and stoicism affected all forms of snares roots and cc then it would be a non-issue. You still get mezzed for 9 seconds on a mez which is an eternity of time for push-pull groups.
Fri 29 May 2020 10:16 PM by tibofeif
Neso wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 6:26 PM
The light tanks (sav, merc, bm etc) have det & stoic? Their main duty isn't to snare, but dps and snare when available. If you're getting rooted then its actually an advantage.
Are you talking about hybrid tanks (pally, reaver, champ etc?)

So you want charge with cc immunity, casters with less hp and AF AND lower root/snare timers which give melee immunity... all so you can more efficiently roll your forehead over keyboard?

Please re-read my post it seems there is a disconnect from your response and what was stated.
Fri 29 May 2020 10:21 PM by Forlornhope
tibofeif wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 10:14 PM
Quik wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 5:49 PM
Don't most tanks have Det? That is basically the replacement for charge, at least I always assumed it was.

Are you talking about hybrids though? Hybrids aren't what I would consider light tanks and I don't believe they ever got charge until later in DAoC.

Unfortunately, Det and stoicism do not reduce roots or melee snares. This is a large part of the problem. People often assume that Det plus stoicism makes u immune to cc. It really just makes you have reduced mez time that's it I believe. If Det and stoicism affected all forms of snares roots and cc then it would be a non-issue. You still get mezzed for 9 seconds on a mez which is an eternity of time for push-pull groups.

It should reduce all casted forms of cc, so this should include roots.
Fri 29 May 2020 10:23 PM by ExcretusMaximus
tibofeif wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 5:43 PM
Option 3: Dramatically lower root/snare times as well as set an immunity to melee snare so it cant be chained on a target over and over. Alternatively, we could make Determination affect all roots/snares as well as set an immunity timer to said cc.

You think casters are too strong and want to nerf melee snares. Have fun catching those too-strong casters when you can't chain snare them and are out of endo after 15 seconds of sprinting and styling on a Berserker.
Fri 29 May 2020 10:36 PM by ExcretusMaximus
tibofeif wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 10:14 PM
Unfortunately, Det and stoicism do not reduce roots or melee snares. This is a large part of the problem. People often assume that Det plus stoicism makes u immune to cc. It really just makes you have reduced mez time that's it I believe. If Det and stoicism affected all forms of snares roots and cc then it would be a non-issue. You still get mezzed for 9 seconds on a mez which is an eternity of time for push-pull groups.

Also, this is 100% incorrect.

Determination and Stoicism reduce all forms of casted CC, not just mez. There is a reason roots last 7 seconds on a Berserker and 45 on a caster.
Fri 29 May 2020 11:38 PM by tibofeif
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 10:23 PM
tibofeif wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 5:43 PM
Option 3: Dramatically lower root/snare times as well as set an immunity to melee snare so it cant be chained on a target over and over. Alternatively, we could make Determination affect all roots/snares as well as set an immunity timer to said cc.

You think casters are too strong and want to nerf melee snares. Have fun catching those too-strong casters when you can't chain snare them and are out of endo after 15 seconds of sprinting and styling on a Berserker.

I appreciate your comments however they come across as very hostile. If that's not your intent my apologies for is interpreting you. I do not feel casters are too strong nor do I feel the solutions I provided are the only options. I am merely trying to encourage discussion on the topic and find a viable solution to the issue.
Fri 29 May 2020 11:40 PM by tibofeif
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 10:36 PM
tibofeif wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 10:14 PM
Unfortunately, Det and stoicism do not reduce roots or melee snares. This is a large part of the problem. People often assume that Det plus stoicism makes u immune to cc. It really just makes you have reduced mez time that's it I believe. If Det and stoicism affected all forms of snares roots and cc then it would be a non-issue. You still get mezzed for 9 seconds on a mez which is an eternity of time for push-pull groups.

Also, this is 100% incorrect.

Determination and Stoicism reduce all forms of casted CC, not just mez. There is a reason roots last 7 seconds on a Berserker and 45 on a caster.

Again this seems you are very angry my friend. I appreciate you correcting me. I still do feel there is a need for a solution to the problem stated above. Since you seem very passionate about this topic. What solutions would you suggest?
Fri 29 May 2020 11:58 PM by gotwqqd
Immunity for snares/roots
Done
Sat 30 May 2020 12:01 AM by tibofeif
gotwqqd wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 11:58 PM
Immunity for snares/roots
Done

Maybe make it only for light tanks and tanks
Sat 30 May 2020 11:45 PM by Razur Ur
snare/root/mezz is all fine on this server, only what is broken, is the cast speed from caster and the caster debuff.
Sun 31 May 2020 9:01 AM by Cadebrennus
I can't say I've really missed Charge too much when I've played my Merc. If my groupmates are doing their jobs to interrupt their CC then I have no problems reaching my target. With Det the CC is still not a big deal even if my groupmates aren't doing their job to interrupt.

Additional note: if you get snared/rooted just pull out your xbow/shortbow/whatever. The range on these is 1500, the same as most DD spells. If you're stuck then just interrupt whomever you can. Don't stand there doing nothing.
Sun 31 May 2020 1:12 PM by Killaloth
Caster setup is weaker than mongo setup since the hp buff increase was introduced on Phoenix.

If are under the impression that casters setup are stronger it's just because most caster setups are being played by guild groups with good communication.

I've seen all sorts of sub-optimal setups being rolled by good groups: alb melee group with necro AF debuff, alb double theurg group with necro debuffing AF for necro pets (LoL) to say a couple.

There is no patch that can cut fingers or make fingers grow but believe me light tanks are just good as they are.
Fri 12 Jun 2020 11:35 AM by opossum12
I would think that not having speedwarps, no BG ability and increased HP pools would favor tanks.

As much as playing a caster/hybrid group comp requires good positionning and communication, playing a tank group isn't a pure braindead deal either.

If you are chain snared out of a fight, someone in your group isn't doing his job of peeling/snaring the opposing tank.

If you can't kill a caster with 3 melee beating on it, then your rupter isn't doing his job.

Playing a tank group shouldn't be all mongo push without thinking.

You are getting snared out of fights, but nothing prevents you from snaring the opposing tanks out of the fight either.

I like playing tank groups because I find them more fun and I think there is just as much startegy and coordination (when to split on dps, when to collapse on a target, when to push, etc) playing a tank group than in a caster group.

And if someone roots you, be happy they did because you are now immune to root/snares for a full minute.
Fri 12 Jun 2020 10:50 PM by ExcretusMaximus
opossum12 wrote:
Fri 12 Jun 2020 11:35 AM
You are getting snared out of fights, but nothing prevents you from snaring the opposing tanks out of the fight either.


As long as you're not running nothing but Savages...
Fri 12 Jun 2020 11:35 PM by opossum12
Well savage has an off evade snare, considering the class has 360 50% evade, I'd say it's almost an anytime lol
Sat 13 Jun 2020 6:51 PM by andreynk257
Reactionary snare (off evade) is useless for group vs group rvr combat when chasing enemy support/casters or trying to peel enemy tanks off your support, so your point is null in that regard. All other light tanks have some sort of positional snare where they don't have to spec into additional skill line to sacrifice primary skill line dps. The only thing a savage has is the 4 second rear stun but that is not enough to compete vs 20+ second snares the other light tanks get.
Wed 17 Jun 2020 11:56 PM by omicidi
tibofeif wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 11:40 PM
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 10:36 PM
tibofeif wrote:
Fri 29 May 2020 10:14 PM
Unfortunately, Det and stoicism do not reduce roots or melee snares. This is a large part of the problem. People often assume that Det plus stoicism makes u immune to cc. It really just makes you have reduced mez time that's it I believe. If Det and stoicism affected all forms of snares roots and cc then it would be a non-issue. You still get mezzed for 9 seconds on a mez which is an eternity of time for push-pull groups.

Also, this is 100% incorrect.

Determination and Stoicism reduce all forms of casted CC, not just mez. There is a reason roots last 7 seconds on a Berserker and 45 on a caster.

Again this seems you are very angry my friend. I appreciate you correcting me. I still do feel there is a need for a solution to the problem stated above. Since you seem very passionate about this topic. What solutions would you suggest?

What is sad is this dude summed Gyrme up in two forum posts.
Thu 18 Jun 2020 12:09 AM by ExcretusMaximus
omicidi wrote:
Wed 17 Jun 2020 11:56 PM
What is sad is this dude summed Gyrme up in two forum posts.


What is sadder is you slinging mud with anonymity.
This topic is locked and you can't reply.

Return to Ask the Team or the latest topics