Lack of Grouping - but is it the Game or the Player? TL'DR incoming...Move along please...I wrote it for me.

Started 25 Apr 2020
by Komaf
in PvE
I'm not really writing this to the 3-5 people who will spend the time to read it. Or to the 1 person who has a dog whose owner's cousin's mother's Hispanic health care provider happened to be staring at the computer screen while dusting the mouse. In truth, no one cares. Not the devs and certainly not the players and I am not so self-indulgent that I believe otherwise.

I'm writing this to myself to finally rationalize as to why since 2001 (November) I am not going to bother any longer. I write this and you can rest assured one person finally broke it off with a relationship that in truth died years before it ever began - even if they weren't ready to admit it even during a viral outbreak and tons of free time.

It's just a rant otherwise, but trust me you 3-4 (one already stopped reading) people and Maria Garcia Esmerelda (and bless you for reading and indulging me a bit more than the game ever did)....but I'm just doing this for my own psychology. Ok, moving on with writing to myself:

So it's a game, right folks? And people are drawn to a game to have fun - and if it's labeled as multi-player, this usually means fun with other folks, or so that's the basic belief. But this is also a game that is governed by people for the people, so to speak. This means that if you want to group with people, you have to try to find them and or join them. Sounds pretty easy, right? I mean, the game has a ton of classes and specs, three realms to choose from, and a constant war between the realms over keep/tower/relic taking. There is a smorgasbord of choice here - and it's unique and appetizing and darn right amazing. Those things alone should be enough incentive to keep a pulse going in this game for most everyone logging into PVE.

But then there's the game as it was built and the players who respond to incentive only and most the population be damned. That thing about massively multiplayer takes a back seat when you're just watching bomb groups run by. So wait, why aren't more folks getting groups? Why do I see endless spam of classes not grouping?

So here's a game with more classes and races and 3 actual factions (not just ESO cosmetic play). Folks need to consider what class spec they want to play (and here's the rub of the issue) and what classes specs folks expect you to play so that they have the most optimal trek to 50. And DAoC's PVE weakness has never been its outdated graphics or clunky UI. Nostalgia keeps folks around despite those issues.

But here's the issue:

It's always been that the game is created (and still is) in such a way as to support a meta method of leveling. Twenty-years after the game's release, it is still near impossible to get a group with 75%+ classes in the game. The smorgasbord of choices I referred to? Might as well be plastic food as you cannot eat it.

The game's design initially errored on certain classes not contributing as much as others in a PvE zone - meaning most classes. Some classes making it a lot faster to xp mean that this game factoid immediately took the incentive away from groups to include a majority of players (outside of nepotism or randomness). And this is still the case - 20-years later.

No developer has ever taken this into account with much thought. Sure, on this server, we see Determination given to hybrids and such, or some PVP boosting or nerfing for certain classes. But the PVE side of this game is glaringly weak and has only been weakened to a point (c item nerf sure didn't help the non-meta player) where the drudgery of the game's leveling experience grows exponentially once people have had a taste of a 3-4 bomb group leveling experience.

For example, and I'll point out the most obvious issue: there's no measurable incentive to ever invite a rogue to a group, let alone a class that's seen as 'ok' for PvE just not omg see how many mobs are dying per second ok. I recall the other day when someone said, "But there's a social x p bonus for inviting a different class like a rogue..." to which I went to LFG and typed: "24 scout LFG for social xp slot! Holding my breath...any takers? Going once...Bueller? Anyone?"

A couple of people responded with a 'lol' in LFG but literally in that time there were 3-4 bomb group LFM bomb requests. It was all so plastic feeling. It doesn't have to be this way but that's just how this has been. Some folks here actually played this game in 2003 and I would bet they remember it being easier to get a group back than as a non-meta than it is now. We still took whatever and hit the Barrows on Alb 30-50. Hib was random groups waging war on CM mobs and Mid was, well...racing for a way to get into a Moderna group because I think they figured out the pbaoe (+aoe stun) thing faster than any other realm.

So what's the reasoning?
Folks want to hit 50 asap. The incentive, therefore, is to only take classes that will make that experience possible. And as we as humans all know, most don't do anything other than measure incentive value before making a choice: Do I want the Super-Sized Double Double Cheese-Burger Meal or the garden salad? Sure the garden salad's healthy, but you'll get full faster on the Super-Sized meal, lol. So, case in point, don't be garden salad if you want to experience this game. Be a gut rending cheeseburger.

Too much metaphor for you?

If your class kills 2-3 quickly but there's another class that kills 8-10 quickly, you're standing in a food line and it's the Great Depression for you, buddy. You'll be in LFG for hours (coming up with snazzy new plasticity ways to try to convince strangers to group you or as to what your class can do for them) and unless someone's just wanting to fill a random (very, very rare) or you have a pal, you will be on your own. Or, you are paying plat (going rate this week is 1-24 for 1 plat)...but that's not fun, and certainly a pretty cruddy time for most players. But there are already few players on this server (not Uthgard few, thankfully, as 17 players is pretty bad...). And sadly there's no apparent effort to do more for the 75% or really, is it more? So if I want to group regularly as someone who can't sit for 14+ hours a day on my computer, then I have to play bomb/heals and sometimes, tank.

This game doesn't do squat for a majority of the classes it advertises we can play. Again with the plastic feel.

So what's the point for people who do NOT want to play a tank (not even needed on Hib) a pbaoe class (even aoe has a hard time) or healing class? If you don't have some nepotistic hookup, you're on your own. Maybe that's just the way this game was meant to be: a very small, niche game serving a tiny community. If that was the goal for these developers who I thought really wanted to improve on the old game, then bravo, I say, as I step away 4-ever: mission accomplished.

What this game should really just read when you first log in is: You can play a healer, a pbaoe (aoe sometimes), or a tank. Everyone else is pretty much on their own. There are career outlooks you can Google, right? Why not here?

Career Outlook DAoC Shard: Phoenix:
______________________________________________________________________________
Large Shield Tank: 75% growth (50% you'll get a group in a given hour - not counting Hibernia)
Healer: 85% growth
PBAO: 95% growth (fastest invite in-game)

Rogues:

3-5% chance per hour (less on Hibernia)
Shield scout (folks know you can only guard 1 person with a small shield, sorry buddy, but MoB 4 with a tea plate isn't gonna cut it) - the only thing worse than this class is an AFK warden who thinks having a 10-second bubble pulse is worth an invite.

Archery: Laughable damage. Even lower than live DAoC was due to personal, developer reasons. Sorry again, lol (or are we?)

_________________________________________________________________________________

I could say more but nobody cares (as one player told my hunter the other day when I said, "I assume you won't take a hunter for a free last slot/social XP, but I thought I'd give it a shot...and the player from the guild <Paranoid> said, "You assumed correctly.".

If that isn't a prime example of don't waste my time here I don't know what is. Half the time people won't even RESPOND to you if you ask to join. I'd go out of my way with, "Thanks man, but we are full group, or thanks man, but the group wants a bomb for the three bombs we already have."

Seems a lot of folks think it's pretty logical to just /ignore you otherwise: again, the incentive created by the game has led to a very lackluster community to say the least. The effect on the community of needing the fastest killer, the best healer, sometimes even the best tank (Alb paladin)... means folks will treat your non-meta class in the same way minorities and the poor are treated in any given society: like garbage. The problem with that logic is it brings out the worst in a community, it turns the LFG channel into: 'LFM bomb' and sometimes 'LFM bomb + healer' and if you're lucky on a melee 'LFM bomb + healer + shield.'

But that's the game. Everything I said above was why people (arguably) rolled out for World of Warcraft in 2004 like the Hebrews fleeing Pharaoh. To come here or stay here is like going back to that old bipolar girlfriend you once had in high school: she's so much fun when she's got it together, but when her chemistry is off, you're going to be living in hell. Even now you will find a huge community on most WoW classic servers (some are like crickets)...and so few folks here. But again, maybe this was all with intent.

I used to think Uthgard's lead supervisor, Blue, had intended to keep the server as small as possible by doing little to nothing to make it fun to pick a class and play. I think he got his wish in the end.

Take care, all. Good hunting. Oh, and to the 75% who today might be on a rogue or otherwise unpopular class - learn from your experiences, and when you do have your bomb + bomb + bomb looking for bomb group, invite someone who doesn't have a chance in hell in having fun in the once award-winning, tri-realm MMORPG known as Dark Age of Camelot. In truth right now there's a level 25 rogue LFM 40+ bombs for his friend's bomb group, lol. smh...

Peace - I'm breaking up with you, bipolar high school girlfriend. I'd say it's been great, but it hasn't.
Sat 25 Apr 2020 10:33 PM by gotwqqd
I pretty much get groups aside from archer/assassin class

I had one trio group with hunter and a low rank group with sb for 3!or 4 levels
Else I had to solo
Thank god for rvr task xp 35+
It also lets me get minimum of RR3 by 50
Sat 25 Apr 2020 11:10 PM by Kurbsen
why not start the group? Ive been in many groups where the stealther has started it and then later became the puller for the group. Just /who <class> <level> and send them tells if they are lfg. I mean have over 30 level 50s on this server and can tell you even a healer or a bomb can wait a while before getting a group. It just depends on what is needed at that time of playing.

My suggestion for you is to either 1) start your own groups, 2) follow xp items list, 3) join a pve guild..

gl out there
Sat 25 Apr 2020 11:20 PM by Quik
Kurbsen wrote:
Sat 25 Apr 2020 11:10 PM
why not start the group? Ive been in many groups where the stealther has started it and then later became the puller for the group. Just /who <class> <level> and send them tells if they are lfg. I mean have over 30 level 50s on this server and can tell you even a healer or a bomb can wait a while before getting a group. It just depends on what is needed at that time of playing.

My suggestion for you is to either 1) start your own groups, 2) follow xp items list, 3) join a pve guild..

gl out there

Sounds to me like another woe is me because no one invited me.

I'm with you, when I can't get a group I just start one.

A lot of the issue is the realm though, Midgard could care less they take almost anything most of the time. I know I certainly do.
Sun 26 Apr 2020 12:21 AM by daytonchambers
Getting in groups is obviously easier for some classes. Getting into groups as undesirable classes is not impossible. Even if you don't start them.

It's a social game, with a relatively small community. If you're a toxic player people will remember this. If you are a treat to have because you have the most original Carol Baskin jokes people remember that too. Personally I've seldom had issues finding groups. I'm courteous, share drops with others in the group who could use them, and make an effort to contribute both on the grind and to the social aspect of the group.

And people remember that kind of thing and tend to want to play with you again. My 2c
Mon 27 Apr 2020 5:03 PM by darkstar00
I play on mid. The only classes that have a real hard time finding a group are stealthers. Even so, if you are persistent and patient you will get into a group. How do I know? Because this is exactly what I experienced leveling mine.

The thing is, once you get in a group the leveling goes really fast. Until then, just keep doing collection tasks and spam LFG.... or start your own.

People will always try to cut corners and level asap, that is any game of this genre.
Mon 27 Apr 2020 6:04 PM by Quik
darkstar00 wrote:
Mon 27 Apr 2020 5:03 PM
I play on mid. The only classes that have a real hard time finding a group are stealthers. Even so, if you are persistent and patient you will get into a group. How do I know? Because this is exactly what I experienced leveling mine.

The thing is, once you get in a group the leveling goes really fast. Until then, just keep doing collection tasks and spam LFG.... or start your own.

People will always try to cut corners and level asap, that is any game of this genre.

I make groups all the time and always get a SB or Hunter, but Mid has the luxury of these classes being amazing DPS with celerity and tinder and being almost as fast as a bomb group for killing.
Mon 27 Apr 2020 6:09 PM by gotwqqd
My biggest recommendation
Be proactive
Don’t simple ask again and again lfg xp

When you see someone else ask in your level range start inviting
Mon 27 Apr 2020 6:58 PM by Patron
qq said the necro

I have a Hero 50, somehow i get it to 50. Hit 50 before 10 days or such.
It was rough, no question. My Druid or Ani xp much faster. My NS get 50 because i had some good folks in this time and we helping us to reach 50.
But u know what? This is part of the game. People are hard to each other. In RL and in game.

And WoW still sucks and its a boring and highunrealistic game. Why i cannot give my used Equip to another player? I never came over it.
Tue 28 Apr 2020 9:30 AM by chewchew
in case somewhere in your big wall of QQ you said you are stopping from playing the game: can i have your stuff?
Tue 28 Apr 2020 10:33 AM by Lillebror
Just leveld a Bard to 50, at some levels it was insane amounts lfg as Bard. Hard competition.
Often enough if i started with duo it added on and my exp with CF is that most ppl that formed the grps and took the hassel to invite ppl etc was stealthers. Ppl want a easy way out. Though i feel You pain as stealther and grp slots.

Some classes should maybe keep getting eggs while duo as an excample.
Tue 28 Apr 2020 11:16 AM by watbrif
"Start your own groups" only solves the issue for yourself though. As an underappreciated class, you will probably be the only one of that sort in the group, as you necessarily have to fill the rest with "meta" classes. It's so much more work, too - finding a spot (knowing where proper spots are!), advertising and filling spots; sometimes there's simply no healers etc. around, so you can't get the group started. And the problems add up up: take a NS; you won't find a group unless you start one and that comes with its own issues, as I said. Solo levelling is atrocious. Building and paying for a temp means you have to take out a mortgage. And now compare this to an enchanter, for instance.

And there's simply no reason why it should be so much harder for certain classes to get into rvr (a NS has no inherent gameplay advantages). All of this isn't really what I would call intuitive game design. So the issue lies with the original, 20+ years old game. But I still feel that more could be done to alleviate some of those terrible design decisions made by the original developers...
Tue 28 Apr 2020 11:20 AM by Sepplord
imo that is the biggest reason for not starting groups...
not knowing where to go with the group you are building (worsened since you often don't know what group you will end up with lvlwise)

DAoC in general was already really spot-dependant and all the different bonuses didn't make it easier to find a good spot if you didn't know where you had to go.
Tue 28 Apr 2020 11:55 AM by gotwqqd
Sepplord wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 11:20 AM
imo that is the biggest reason for not starting groups...
not knowing where to go with the group you are building (worsened since you often don't know what group you will end up with lvlwise)

DAoC in general was already really spot-dependant and all the different bonuses didn't make it easier to find a good spot if you didn't know where you had to go.

Pretty much no reason to be anywhere but frontiers
Tue 28 Apr 2020 12:28 PM by Sepplord
gotwqqd wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 11:55 AM
Sepplord wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 11:20 AM
imo that is the biggest reason for not starting groups...
not knowing where to go with the group you are building (worsened since you often don't know what group you will end up with lvlwise)

DAoC in general was already really spot-dependant and all the different bonuses didn't make it easier to find a good spot if you didn't know where you had to go.

Pretty much no reason to be anywhere but frontiers

Even if that was true...the frontiers are big and not every spot is a good one
Tue 28 Apr 2020 12:51 PM by gotwqqd
Sepplord wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 12:28 PM
gotwqqd wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 11:55 AM
Sepplord wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 11:20 AM
imo that is the biggest reason for not starting groups...
not knowing where to go with the group you are building (worsened since you often don't know what group you will end up with lvlwise)

DAoC in general was already really spot-dependant and all the different bonuses didn't make it easier to find a good spot if you didn't know where you had to go.

Pretty much no reason to be anywhere but frontiers

Even if that was true...the frontiers are big and not every spot is a good one
Well then I don’t know what to say
Get on the internet
Ask in advice
Explore
Tue 28 Apr 2020 1:24 PM by Sepplord
gotwqqd wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 12:51 PM
Well then I don’t know what to say
Get on the internet
Ask in advice
Explore

I don't level anymore, and when i did i mostly didn't group as i couldn't commit safely because of kids not sleeping through yet. I merely commented on why i believe many don't start a group randomly, and IF they do, they built a meta-grp for a known meta-spot.

Btw. have fun finding a phoenix levelspot via "getting on the internet" or randomly exploring after building a levelgroup Your groupmembers will leave faster than if you had wiped.

Levelling isn't anything people want to experience anymore. Running around the lands looking for a good spot for an hour, is a wasted hour for 90% of the playerbase (and i agree on that).
Thu 30 Apr 2020 1:24 AM by daytonchambers
gotwqqd wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 12:51 PM
Well then I don’t know what to say
Get on the internet
Ask in advice
Explore


EXPLORE!
Everyone ought to do this, especially in SI zones where there's a bazillion camps that are pretty much never touched ever despite having exellent concentrations of a wide variety of mob types.

The problem is that so many people are hooked on that Frontier bonus that they would rather xp at a frontiers camp with a 0% mob bonus vs a classic/SI camp with a 200% mob bonus cause they think the XP is better.

Fools, everywhere!
Thu 30 Apr 2020 1:26 AM by daytonchambers
Sepplord wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 1:24 PM
gotwqqd wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 12:51 PM
Well then I don’t know what to say
Get on the internet
Ask in advice
Explore

I don't level anymore, and when i did i mostly didn't group as i couldn't commit safely because of kids not sleeping through yet. I merely commented on why i believe many don't start a group randomly, and IF they do, they built a meta-grp for a known meta-spot.

Btw. have fun finding a phoenix levelspot via "getting on the internet" or randomly exploring after building a levelgroup Your groupmembers will leave faster than if you had wiped.

Levelling isn't anything people want to experience anymore. Running around the lands looking for a good spot for an hour, is a wasted hour for 90% of the playerbase (and i agree on that).


You explore when you're solo. Learn the locations of camps. Then use that info to run better groups and make a name for yourself. Because that's what Heroes do.
Thu 30 Apr 2020 6:24 AM by Sepplord
Actually, no ... i don't.

I never claimed that it is impossible to study the game and learn moblocation and the best spots, i claimed that most people don't see any appeal in doing that. Especially since that knowledge could be patched useless any day
Thu 30 Apr 2020 8:09 AM by daytonchambers
Sepplord wrote:
Thu 30 Apr 2020 6:24 AM
Actually, no ... i don't.

I never claimed that it is impossible to study the game and learn moblocation and the best spots, i claimed that most people don't see any appeal in doing that. Especially since that knowledge could be patched useless any day


There has never been a significant patch that dramatically altered the landscape and location of mobs on this server. Like, ever.


Sepplord wrote: Btw. have fun finding a phoenix levelspot via "getting on the internet" or randomly exploring after building a levelgroup Your groupmembers will leave faster than if you had wiped.


Groups I set up or end up running DO have fun. A big reason why is that I took time to roam around a bit to learn the zones and mob spawns, and now I know of a lot of camps with different mob types. That way I can immediately drive the group to what will very likely be an untouched camp of 200% bonus mobs that isn't DF or PoC

Just because you're salty at the whole XP portion of the game doesn't mean that others can't have fun with it. In one post you state that you don't roam around solo looking for places to level then in a different post you say that the biggest reason for not starting groups is not knowing where to go with the group you are building.

You're your own worst enemy here.
Thu 30 Apr 2020 8:29 AM by Sepplord
You are making baseless assumptions...i am not salty at the XP situation at all. Levelling on phoenix has been quite fast for me, and as i mentioned earlier, due to my duties i can't commit to groups most of the time anyways. On top of that, i wouldn't even make new toons currently if there was an instant50 command. They could remove the ability to create and level new characters completely, and while i would think it to be a bad idea, it wouldn't change my gaming plans at all.
People like you that always assume a malicious agenda are far more problematic, just to give that "compliment" of yours back

That said:
There has never been a significant patch that dramatically altered the landscape and location of mobs on this server. Like, ever.

Going from OF to NF has changed everything in the frontier zones
The change to XP-Bonuses has heavily changed which spots are actually good XP-givers too

Disclaimer before you randomly try to shit on me again: I am not saying those changes should not have happened or that the staff is evil for putting them in. I am just stating the fact, that the XP-environment has already heavily changed before, and that it could happen again.


Groups I set up or end up running DO have fun. A big reason why is that I took time to roam around a bit to learn the zones and mob spawns, and now I know of a lot of camps with different mob types. That way I can immediately drive the group to what will very likely be an untouched camp of 200% bonus mobs that isn't DF or PoC

How does that relate to my post at all? I said groups that go exploring after being build would fall apart. You explicitly said that the exploring needs to be done solo just one comment before, yet suddenly take my statement out of the context you had already replied to. If you reread my previous comment carefully, you will see i also said "most". Most doesn't mean "All", so arising from the dark with your PvE knowledge about perfect spots somehow believing that devalues my comment is ridicolous. I am aware that there are people like you that enjoy travelling the world for hours, making maps or simply remembering all mobspots, their mobtype, their levelrange, their spawnrates etc...
Most people don't do that though.

So back to my original statement, maybe you understand it now, without accusing me of saltiness:
The biggest burden of being a groupleader isn't getting 8people together, it is knowing which spots to go, depending on the levelrange/classes of people that join

Feel free to disagree on that, but i would appreciate if you put some arguments in your next comment instead of just going of your personal bias and insults. Just an idea
Thu 30 Apr 2020 9:20 AM by gotwqqd
Sepplord wrote:
Thu 30 Apr 2020 8:29 AM
You are making baseless assumptions...i am not salty at the XP situation at all. Levelling on phoenix has been quite fast for me, and as i mentioned earlier, due to my duties i can't commit to groups most of the time anyways. On top of that, i wouldn't even make new toons currently if there was an instant50 command. They could remove the ability to create and level new characters completely, and while i would think it to be a bad idea, it wouldn't change my gaming plans at all.
People like you that always assume a malicious agenda are far more problematic, just to give that "compliment" of yours back

That said:
There has never been a significant patch that dramatically altered the landscape and location of mobs on this server. Like, ever.

Going from OF to NF has changed everything in the frontier zones
The change to XP-Bonuses has heavily changed which spots are actually good XP-givers too

Disclaimer before you randomly try to shit on me again: I am not saying those changes should not have happened or that the staff is evil for putting them in. I am just stating the fact, that the XP-environment has already heavily changed before, and that it could happen again.


Groups I set up or end up running DO have fun. A big reason why is that I took time to roam around a bit to learn the zones and mob spawns, and now I know of a lot of camps with different mob types. That way I can immediately drive the group to what will very likely be an untouched camp of 200% bonus mobs that isn't DF or PoC

How does that relate to my post at all? I said groups that go exploring after being build would fall apart. You explicitly said that the exploring needs to be done solo just one comment before, yet suddenly take my statement out of the context you had already replied to. If you reread my previous comment carefully, you will see i also said "most". Most doesn't mean "All", so arising from the dark with your PvE knowledge about perfect spots somehow believing that devalues my comment is ridicolous. I am aware that there are people like you that enjoy travelling the world for hours, making maps or simply remembering all mobspots, their mobtype, their levelrange, their spawnrates etc...
Most people don't do that though.

So back to my original statement, maybe you understand it now, without accusing me of saltiness:
The biggest burden of being a groupleader isn't getting 8people together, it is knowing which spots to go, depending on the levelrange/classes of people that join

Feel free to disagree on that, but i would appreciate if you put some arguments in your next comment instead of just going of your personal bias and insults. Just an idea
Mostly
OF/NF mobs have not changed
You just need move about a bit to find them
And pretty much all of the task dropping mobs have the new frontier locations posted on the guide by the players
Thu 30 Apr 2020 9:50 AM by Sepplord
gotwqqd wrote:
Thu 30 Apr 2020 9:20 AM
Mostly
OF/NF mobs have not changed
You just need move about a bit to find them
And pretty much all of the task dropping mobs have the new frontier locations posted on the guide by the players

What is your statement here:
That people that went through the learning proces, only had a small re-learning effort after the change and didn't have to start completely from scratch?

That doesn't change my opinion on why most people don't want to start an exp-group
Thu 30 Apr 2020 12:10 PM by Centenario
I proposed:

- Give Two-Hand or Polearm a PBAOE ability (not usable in RvR zones) & LW & celtic spear & spear & h2h & scythe & flexible. Equivalent to Wiz/SM/HibCasters
- Give Archery Volley ability (GTAOE) for group leveling. (not usable in RvR zones) Equivalent to RM/Wiz/Eld
- Give Assassin a poison AoE dot ability for solo leveling (not usable in RvR zones) Equivalent to Cab/Menta/Shaman

These would solve issue with leveling.
Thu 30 Apr 2020 9:11 PM by hefrocko2
We just need to add celerity to alb and hib. Celerity 2020, paladins and wardens lead the way.
Thu 30 Apr 2020 10:38 PM by daytonchambers
Sepplord wrote:
Thu 30 Apr 2020 8:29 AM
So back to my original statement, maybe you understand it now, without accusing me of saltiness:
The biggest burden of being a groupleader isn't getting 8people together, it is knowing which spots to go, depending on the levelrange/classes of people that join



I actually agree with you 100% here. It IS more difficult to start and manage a group than to just spam lfg. Which is why I said that the people who roam around on their own a bit to have an idea where to take groups later on have much more success.

We're talking past one another I think. You keep saying why people tend to not start groups, and I keep offering advice on how to avoid the stress of knowing where to go if you DO start one.

And I admit, NF did indeed change mob locations so I was wrong there. That being said, My original advice was to search places OTHER than the frontiers for groups to avoid the stale PoC or DF content, and neither the classic nor SI zones have changed at all. The change in xp bonuses just means that more of those camps are now viable places to level, which is a GOOD thing.
Thu 7 May 2020 8:06 PM by Xanthippus
Everyone else did what you always had to do - start groups or roll a farmer/support and trade favours with people. Heal and res somebody enough times and they won't be able to say no to helping you level a stealther or whatever other selfish class you want to play. The class provides nothing of value to the group, you must understand this.

XP items are also quite a viable way to level still.
Fri 8 May 2020 7:59 AM by Razur Ur
hefrocko2 wrote:
Thu 30 Apr 2020 9:11 PM
We just need to add celerity to alb and hib. Celerity 2020, paladins and wardens lead the way.

give hiberna and albion a 1h and 2h weapon with celerity proc! :-)
Fri 8 May 2020 8:21 AM by Nunki
Razur Ur wrote:
Fri 8 May 2020 7:59 AM
hefrocko2 wrote:
Thu 30 Apr 2020 9:11 PM
We just need to add celerity to alb and hib. Celerity 2020, paladins and wardens lead the way.

give hiberna and albion a 1h and 2h weapon with celerity proc! :-)
This idea is so unthought-through that I don't even want to explain why.
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