Post your Ranger spec!

Started 5 Nov 2019
by Horus
in Hibernia
We know Rangers are a popular class...

Just curious what specs people are currently playing...

I'll start...NA but I play often during Euro prime time...

RR 8.x
Bow: 50 (+18)
PF: 48
Stealth: 32 (+18)
CD: 6 (+18)
Pierce: 10 (+18)
Tue 5 Nov 2019 6:14 PM by Riac
looks like garbage
Tue 5 Nov 2019 7:53 PM by daytonchambers
Riac wrote:
Tue 5 Nov 2019 6:14 PM
looks like garbage

LoL, that kid sure does hate Rangers!

https://youtu.be/3KquFZYi6L0

At R6 I'm currently playing 34stealth 37pierce 23CD 36bow 40PF. I tried a heavy shooters build, but I like to roam and getting caught in the field w that build just serves up free arpees for the other guy.

It's still incredibly hard with my current setup and I have to dump every toy and charge at my disposal if I'm caught in melee, but at least it's no longer guaranteed death.
Thu 14 Nov 2019 7:07 AM by inoeth
rr5
35 stealth
19 cd
27 bow
46 pf
39 blade
Thu 14 Nov 2019 1:32 PM by Glimmer
rr5
Stealth 35
Archery 35
Pierc 33
Celtic Dual 10
Pathfinding 48
Thu 14 Nov 2019 8:53 PM by The Skies Asunder
I am only RR 4L8 at the moment.

Current Spec:

44 Blades
18 CD
36 Stealth
46 PF
13 Recurve Bow

Spec I used from 1L1 to 4L6 before I just wanted to change randomly:

39 Blades
43 CD
36 Stealth
36 Recurve Bow
2 PF
Fri 15 Nov 2019 12:23 PM by bigne88
Does it matter the spec to kill expers or add 8v8?
Fri 15 Nov 2019 10:11 PM by Bistravoda
bigne88 wrote:
Fri 15 Nov 2019 12:23 PM
Does it matter the spec to kill expers or add 8v8?

expers dont go in pvp zona my man dont be greedy for xp it is like driving a car 120 km it should be safe, but 200 km ooohhh lord.
Sat 16 Nov 2019 2:52 AM by bigne88
Bistravoda wrote:
Fri 15 Nov 2019 10:11 PM
bigne88 wrote:
Fri 15 Nov 2019 12:23 PM
Does it matter the spec to kill expers or add 8v8?

expers dont go in pvp zona my man dont be greedy for xp it is like driving a car 120 km it should be safe, but 200 km ooohhh lord.

Talking abot stealther class players, I prefer to think that expers in fz are a font of morale and ego boost for nolifer nerds who failed so hard in RL that fails also in a videogame.
Nothing wrong with being greedy.
Sat 16 Nov 2019 12:15 PM by Bistravoda
bigne88 wrote:
Sat 16 Nov 2019 2:52 AM
Bistravoda wrote:
Fri 15 Nov 2019 10:11 PM
bigne88 wrote:
Fri 15 Nov 2019 12:23 PM
Does it matter the spec to kill expers or add 8v8?

expers dont go in pvp zona my man dont be greedy for xp it is like driving a car 120 km it should be safe, but 200 km ooohhh lord.

Talking abot stealther class players, I prefer to think that expers in fz are a font of morale and ego boost for nolifer nerds who failed so hard in RL that fails also in a videogame.
Nothing wrong with being greedy.

my man i won't go off topic its not the right place to crying about stealther, has other places to do it. peace bthcry
Sat 16 Nov 2019 5:49 PM by bigne88
Bistravoda wrote:
Sat 16 Nov 2019 12:15 PM
bigne88 wrote:
Sat 16 Nov 2019 2:52 AM
Bistravoda wrote:
Fri 15 Nov 2019 10:11 PM
expers dont go in pvp zona my man dont be greedy for xp it is like driving a car 120 km it should be safe, but 200 km ooohhh lord.

Talking abot stealther class players, I prefer to think that expers in fz are a font of morale and ego boost for nolifer nerds who failed so hard in RL that fails also in a videogame.
Nothing wrong with being greedy.

my man i won't go off topic its not the right place to crying about stealther, has other places to do it. peace bthcry

Keep living in your mom basement
Thu 28 Nov 2019 11:46 PM by stewbeedoo
bigne88 wrote:
Sat 16 Nov 2019 5:49 PM
Bistravoda wrote:
Sat 16 Nov 2019 12:15 PM
bigne88 wrote:
Sat 16 Nov 2019 2:52 AM
Talking abot stealther class players, I prefer to think that expers in fz are a font of morale and ego boost for nolifer nerds who failed so hard in RL that fails also in a videogame.
Nothing wrong with being greedy.

my man i won't go off topic its not the right place to crying about stealther, has other places to do it. peace bthcry

Keep living in your mom basement

Oh the basest of video game insults!
Sat 7 Mar 2020 9:54 PM by Aytlan
Melee Ranger rr8
32 stealth
44 blades
50 PF
19 CD
Sat 14 Mar 2020 3:41 AM by sylvynyr
Is 44 blades really worth it?

How often is the 3rd part of the evade chain used?
Damage-wise, It seemed like 39 vs 44 results in +1-2 damage per styled hit on test dummies (along with minimal if even noticeable increase to crit and DA damage)
Weaponskill (DmgMod) maxes at 52 composite, so there should be no difference between 39 and 44 at RR3+

Just wondering if there are other factors I'm not considering.

Currently diggin' 50 PF, 39 Blades, and 18+ CD for rear snare and side stun, with composite 50 stealth.
Sat 14 Mar 2020 6:32 PM by inoeth
sylvynyr wrote:
Sat 14 Mar 2020 3:41 AM
Is 44 blades really worth it?

How often is the 3rd part of the evade chain used?
Damage-wise, It seemed like 39 vs 44 results in +1-2 damage per styled hit on test dummies (along with minimal if even noticeable increase to crit and DA damage)
Weaponskill (DmgMod) maxes at 52 composite, so there should be no difference between 39 and 44 at RR3+

Just wondering if there are other factors I'm not considering.

Currently diggin' 50 PF, 39 Blades, and 18+ CD for rear snare and side stun, with composite 50 stealth.

52 comp spec only caps ypour base dmg, your styl dmg however will ofc increase
Sat 14 Mar 2020 7:46 PM by sylvynyr
inoeth wrote:
Sat 14 Mar 2020 6:32 PM
sylvynyr wrote:
Sat 14 Mar 2020 3:41 AM
Is 44 blades really worth it?

How often is the 3rd part of the evade chain used?
Damage-wise, It seemed like 39 vs 44 results in +1-2 damage per styled hit on test dummies (along with minimal if even noticeable increase to crit and DA damage)
Weaponskill (DmgMod) maxes at 52 composite, so there should be no difference between 39 and 44 at RR3+

Just wondering if there are other factors I'm not considering.

Currently diggin' 50 PF, 39 Blades, and 18+ CD for rear snare and side stun, with composite 50 stealth.

52 comp spec only caps ypour base dmg, your styl dmg however will ofc increase

Absolutely, but it seemed that on the test dummies it only increased Fire Blade by 1 style damage and Spectrum Blade by 2 style damage that only applies to MH damage. Tested with Fire Blade and Spectrum Blade only since test dummies don't evade ;\
Mon 23 Mar 2020 9:10 AM by VonSchneider
Which RA should have priority for sniper ranger?
Im currently 1L4 and wondering if im better off with Aug Dex 3 for more damage over time or FA 3 for more crit hits.
Also tried MoA3, but doesnt seem to have any effect on this level. I guess there is a cap for buffs and I cant raise dex higher than 215 at lvl 24 by buffs.
Mon 23 Mar 2020 3:25 PM by Cadebrennus
sylvynyr wrote:
Sat 14 Mar 2020 7:46 PM
inoeth wrote:
Sat 14 Mar 2020 6:32 PM
sylvynyr wrote:
Sat 14 Mar 2020 3:41 AM
Is 44 blades really worth it?

How often is the 3rd part of the evade chain used?
Damage-wise, It seemed like 39 vs 44 results in +1-2 damage per styled hit on test dummies (along with minimal if even noticeable increase to crit and DA damage)
Weaponskill (DmgMod) maxes at 52 composite, so there should be no difference between 39 and 44 at RR3+

Just wondering if there are other factors I'm not considering.

Currently diggin' 50 PF, 39 Blades, and 18+ CD for rear snare and side stun, with composite 50 stealth.

52 comp spec only caps ypour base dmg, your styl dmg however will ofc increase

Absolutely, but it seemed that on the test dummies it only increased Fire Blade by 1 style damage and Spectrum Blade by 2 style damage that only applies to MH damage. Tested with Fire Blade and Spectrum Blade only since test dummies don't evade ;\

Edited: latest testing supports Wyrd Spec (52 comp base) + 50 advanced line. That or go 50 Blades because the rear chain does more damage than the CD rear chain.
Mon 30 Mar 2020 6:25 PM by imweasel
Sorry for the noob question, but is it worth spec'ing in PF? Seems combined forces would cover a lot of the ground the self buffs do.
Mon 30 Mar 2020 6:41 PM by gotwqqd
imweasel wrote:
Mon 30 Mar 2020 6:25 PM
Sorry for the noob question, but is it worth spec'ing in PF? Seems combined forces would cover a lot of the ground the self buffs do.

Damage add is huge
Wed 1 Apr 2020 2:09 AM by imweasel
So would a blades melee ranger go with:

Shar
Str/con/dex for stats?
At low rr:
38 stealth
39 blades
12 cd
27 bow
46 pf

Occasionally drop stealth as RR increases and add to cd?

Alternate spec:
38 stealth
39 blades
39 cd
27 bow
27 pf
Wed 1 Apr 2020 6:01 AM by inoeth
imweasel wrote:
Wed 1 Apr 2020 2:09 AM
So would a blades melee ranger go with:

Shar
Str/con/dex for stats?
At low rr:
38 stealth
39 blades
12 cd
27 bow
46 pf

Occasionally drop stealth as RR increases and add to cd?

Alternate spec:
38 stealth
39 blades
39 cd
27 bow
27 pf

i did an excel sheet a while ago for ranger specs and it turned out that the sweet spot for highest dmg is something between yellow and red dmg add, so i would not go under that... only if you want to charge dmg add every fight thats a different story then
Wed 1 Apr 2020 10:48 AM by Cadebrennus
inoeth wrote:
Wed 1 Apr 2020 6:01 AM
imweasel wrote:
Wed 1 Apr 2020 2:09 AM
So would a blades melee ranger go with:

Shar
Str/con/dex for stats?
At low rr:
38 stealth
39 blades
12 cd
27 bow
46 pf

Occasionally drop stealth as RR increases and add to cd?

Alternate spec:
38 stealth
39 blades
39 cd
27 bow
27 pf

i did an excel sheet a while ago for ranger specs and it turned out that the sweet spot for highest dmg is something between yellow and red dmg add, so i would not go under that... only if you want to charge dmg add every fight thats a different story then

I did do a damage comparison sheet with the very scenario you're talking about. A DA charge is amazing in the first 30 seconds of a fight (even when balanced against the need for the Legion Heal /use) but it quickly drops off in the next 30 seconds (total time 60 seconds) and even much more in the following minute (total two minutes).

TLDR: DA charge vs PF DA, DA is great for burst damage in the initial 30 seconds, but PF DA is better for sustained damage.
Wed 1 Apr 2020 11:50 AM by imweasel
inoeth wrote:
Wed 1 Apr 2020 6:01 AM
imweasel wrote:
Wed 1 Apr 2020 2:09 AM
So would a blades melee ranger go with:

Shar
Str/con/dex for stats?
At low rr:
38 stealth
39 blades
12 cd
27 bow
46 pf

Occasionally drop stealth as RR increases and add to cd?

Alternate spec:
38 stealth
39 blades
39 cd
27 bow
27 pf

i did an excel sheet a while ago for ranger specs and it turned out that the sweet spot for highest dmg is something between yellow and red dmg add, so i would not go under that... only if you want to charge dmg add every fight thats a different story then

So PF should be at least 36? How much damage am I giving up if I drop CD to 12? Or should I drop archery down to get more PF?

Perhaps something more like this?

38 stealth
39 blades
31 cd
27 archery
36 pf

Or drop CD to 12 and get pf to 46?
Wed 1 Apr 2020 3:30 PM by Cadebrennus
imweasel wrote:
Wed 1 Apr 2020 11:50 AM
inoeth wrote:
Wed 1 Apr 2020 6:01 AM
imweasel wrote:
Wed 1 Apr 2020 2:09 AM
So would a blades melee ranger go with:

Shar
Str/con/dex for stats?
At low rr:
38 stealth
39 blades
12 cd
27 bow
46 pf

Occasionally drop stealth as RR increases and add to cd?

Alternate spec:
38 stealth
39 blades
39 cd
27 bow
27 pf

i did an excel sheet a while ago for ranger specs and it turned out that the sweet spot for highest dmg is something between yellow and red dmg add, so i would not go under that... only if you want to charge dmg add every fight thats a different story then

So PF should be at least 36? How much damage am I giving up if I drop CD to 12? Or should I drop archery down to get more PF?

Perhaps something more like this?

38 stealth
39 blades
31 cd
27 archery
36 pf

Or drop CD to 12 and get pf to 46?

Never drop CD lower than 18. You need that side stun. I recommend you drop the CD lower in your proposed spec in order to get Rapid Fire. You're not going to do much melee damage as a hybrid Ranger anyways.
Wed 1 Apr 2020 7:01 PM by imweasel
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 1 Apr 2020 3:30 PM
imweasel wrote:
Wed 1 Apr 2020 11:50 AM
inoeth wrote:
Wed 1 Apr 2020 6:01 AM
i did an excel sheet a while ago for ranger specs and it turned out that the sweet spot for highest dmg is something between yellow and red dmg add, so i would not go under that... only if you want to charge dmg add every fight thats a different story then

So PF should be at least 36? How much damage am I giving up if I drop CD to 12? Or should I drop archery down to get more PF?

Perhaps something more like this?

38 stealth
39 blades
31 cd
27 archery
36 pf

Or drop CD to 12 and get pf to 46?

Never drop CD lower than 18. You need that side stun. I recommend you drop the CD lower in your proposed spec in order to get Rapid Fire. You're not going to do much melee damage as a hybrid Ranger anyways.

So for a melee ranger how about this?

38 stealth
44 blades
18 cd
12 archery
46 pf
Wed 1 Apr 2020 10:41 PM by Cadebrennus
imweasel wrote:
Wed 1 Apr 2020 7:01 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 1 Apr 2020 3:30 PM
imweasel wrote:
Wed 1 Apr 2020 11:50 AM
So PF should be at least 36? How much damage am I giving up if I drop CD to 12? Or should I drop archery down to get more PF?

Perhaps something more like this?

38 stealth
39 blades
31 cd
27 archery
36 pf

Or drop CD to 12 and get pf to 46?

Never drop CD lower than 18. You need that side stun. I recommend you drop the CD lower in your proposed spec in order to get Rapid Fire. You're not going to do much melee damage as a hybrid Ranger anyways.

So for a melee ranger how about this?

38 stealth
44 blades
18 cd
12 archery
46 pf

That's good. IMO I'd recommend trying for 50 Blades, if possible. The growth rate on the 2nd style in the rear chain is AMAZING.
Thu 2 Apr 2020 10:21 AM by inoeth
my ranger has following spec atm

35 stealth
42 pf
44 blades
29 cd
13 bow

sometimes i miss the big crit shot but the melee capability i get with this spec is very good
Thu 2 Apr 2020 8:50 PM by imweasel
Is it better to have more blades than cd? Or is it better to have more CD than blades? It seems the side stun and rear snare in CD is pretty strong.
Thu 2 Apr 2020 10:39 PM by Cadebrennus
imweasel wrote:
Thu 2 Apr 2020 8:50 PM
Is it better to have more blades than cd? Or is it better to have more CD than blades? It seems the side stun and rear snare in CD is pretty strong.

The calculations I have done suggest to either go big or go home with CD. CD is great with a lot of spec points (44+) or with just barely enough (just 18 for your utility styles). Sitting in the middle of that seems to be a waste of points that are better spent elsewhere.

I have a similar philosophy about Blades, but its minimum utility is at 39, and its "go big or go home" spec is at 50 thanks to the excellent growth rates you get on the rear style and its follow-up at 50.
Fri 3 Apr 2020 10:54 PM by imweasel
Cadebrennus wrote:
Thu 2 Apr 2020 10:39 PM
imweasel wrote:
Thu 2 Apr 2020 8:50 PM
Is it better to have more blades than cd? Or is it better to have more CD than blades? It seems the side stun and rear snare in CD is pretty strong.

The calculations I have done suggest to either go big or go home with CD. CD is great with a lot of spec points (44+) or with just barely enough (just 18 for your utility styles). Sitting in the middle of that seems to be a waste of points that are better spent elsewhere.

I have a similar philosophy about Blades, but its minimum utility is at 39, and its "go big or go home" spec is at 50 thanks to the excellent growth rates you get on the rear style and its follow-up at 50.

Another noob question.

How much do I need to spec in my baseline weapon (in this case blades) to decrease variance and increase base damage when using CD styles? Or should I just spec in blades and get 18CD?
Sat 4 Apr 2020 6:52 AM by Cadebrennus
imweasel wrote:
Fri 3 Apr 2020 10:54 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Thu 2 Apr 2020 10:39 PM
imweasel wrote:
Thu 2 Apr 2020 8:50 PM
Is it better to have more blades than cd? Or is it better to have more CD than blades? It seems the side stun and rear snare in CD is pretty strong.

The calculations I have done suggest to either go big or go home with CD. CD is great with a lot of spec points (44+) or with just barely enough (just 18 for your utility styles). Sitting in the middle of that seems to be a waste of points that are better spent elsewhere.

I have a similar philosophy about Blades, but its minimum utility is at 39, and its "go big or go home" spec is at 50 thanks to the excellent growth rates you get on the rear style and its follow-up at 50.

Another noob question.

How much do I need to spec in my baseline weapon (in this case blades) to decrease variance and increase base damage when using CD styles? Or should I just spec in blades and get 18CD?

Composite base (such as Blades) spec to decrease variance when using advanced spec lines (such as CD). The growth rates for the anytimes are equal in Blades and CD, but the rear styles are higher growth rates (initial rear hit AND follow-up) in Blades. However, the CD rear style has a hinder whereas the Blades rear style does not. If you're starved for spec points my recommendation is to go 18 CD, whatever else you want in Archery/Stealth/PF, and 39+ Blades. Remember, if you are primarily using your bow you really don't need composite stealth IMO, because you will have plenty of stealth to hide from Visis AND your primary attack is happening from range. Enemy stealthers are going to find you anyways, regardless of your stealth spec.
Sun 5 Apr 2020 12:30 PM by inoeth
lmao, rear chain, when do you get it off as a ranger? like never.... but instead you lose either good buffs or CD
also "in the middle" CD spec i actually better than low CD spec, fact.
as a melee ranger it really depends on spreading your spec points to get the most dmg out of it, maximizing one spec line leads to being weak.
what does that mean?
you want to have:

medium to high weapon spec for better style bonus (39-44)
at least yellow buffs (d/q, dmg add)
as much as possible CD for increased off hand hit chance, which a) increases you swing speed b) off hand hit+dmg add=more dmg

so in the end you have something like

39-44 blade
40-46 pf
23-38 CD
35 stealth
12 bow

if you want to be more bow orientated

39 blade
18 CD
40-46 pf
27-35 bow
35 stealth
Mon 6 Apr 2020 6:09 PM by sylvynyr
imweasel wrote:
Mon 30 Mar 2020 6:25 PM
Sorry for the noob question, but is it worth spec'ing in PF? Seems combined forces would cover a lot of the ground the self buffs do.

Also consider that PF buffs delve higher than CF Pots and casted buffs gain 25% overspec bonus as well. PF does still provide an advantage, but minimized somewhat thanks to CF Pots. I can't test the actual scores below yet due to Realm Timer, but they should in theory be accurate. EDIT: Confirmed accurate.

Level 42 SpecAF = 64 delve (80 actual)
Level 39 Strength = 41 delve (51 actual) or Level 50 Strength = 50 delve (62 actual)
Level 40 D/Q = 63 delve (78 actual) or Level 48 D/Q = 72 delve (90 actual)

Combined Forces:
Str = 33
D/Q = 50
SpecAF = 50

An interesting point was noticing that MotA improves CF Pot buffs...

Also (IMO) CD is highly overrated for Rangers. Spec 18 for the rear snare and side stun which at +11 items and RR1 also provides ~50% offhand chance.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 3:12 AM by imweasel
Yes. CD is only going to be 18.

So the end spec is going to be:

38 stealth
44 blades
18 CD
12 archery
46 PF

It would be interesting to try to get blades to 50, but I don't think the benefit would outweigh the sacrifice to PF.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 3:35 AM by dbeattie71
50pf
35st
39blades
18cd
19bow
Tue 7 Apr 2020 9:31 AM by Noashakra
If you are melee ranger, what is the point to have an add dmg that you don't maximize the value with a low CD spec...
For a low rr melee ranger, PF should be 40. There is not enough gain with the red add dmg (3-5 dmg pet hits vs the yellow) and red buffs for the invested points (what you want is the red force buff as a blade user and it's a lot of points wasted to reach that).

My spec :
33 blade
44 CD
42 PF
31 stealth
14 bow

It's too hard to pass the fireblade combo and the dmg of the first style is bad so I got rid of it and I use the debuff atk speed on evade with the CD chain (I would not do that before 6/7L and keep the 39 blade until then).
Tue 7 Apr 2020 2:57 PM by imweasel
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 9:31 AM
If you are melee ranger, what is the point to have an add dmg that you don't maximize the value with a low CD spec...
For a low rr melee ranger, PF should be 40. There is not enough gain with the red add dmg (3-5 dmg pet hits vs the yellow) and red buffs for the invested points (what you want is the red force buff as a blade user and it's a lot of points wasted to reach that).

My spec :
33 blade
44 CD
42 PF
31 stealth
14 bow

It's too hard to pass the fireblade combo and the dmg of the first style is bad so I got rid of it and I use the debuff atk speed on evade with the CD chain (I would not do that before 6/7L and keep the 39 blade until then).

How do you get composite stealth to 50? Or does that not matter? And why 42pf? Is +14af buff worth it?
Tue 7 Apr 2020 3:07 PM by sylvynyr
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 9:31 AM
If you are melee ranger, what is the point to have an add dmg that you don't maximize the value with a low CD spec...
For a low rr melee ranger, PF should be 40. There is not enough gain with the red add dmg (3-5 dmg pet hits vs the yellow) and red buffs for the invested points (what you want is the red force buff as a blade user and it's a lot of points wasted to reach that).

My spec :
33 blade
44 CD
42 PF
31 stealth
14 bow

It's too hard to pass the fireblade combo and the dmg of the first style is bad so I got rid of it and I use the debuff atk speed on evade with the CD chain (I would not do that before 6/7L and keep the 39 blade until then).

Phoenix provides +.86% offhand chance per CD point with 25% base
    2019-3-2 Saturday
    dw / cd scaling increase from .68% per dw spec point to .86%

RR1
    18+11 = 29 CD = ~49.94% offhand chance
    44+11 = 55 CD = ~72.3% offhand chance

RR9 (assuming since spec 33 blades is mentioned + 19 = 52 composite)
    18+19 = 37 CD = ~56.82 offhand chance
    44+19 = 63 CD = ~79.18% offhand chance


Technically 18 -> 44 could be considered a 22.36% DPS improvement over enough time, however out of every 10 attacks it means swinging the offhand ~2 extra times and damage is not guaranteed (can still miss, be evaded, parried, blocked, etc). There's also improvement to style damage if CD styles are used, however Blades seem more useful in most scenarios for Rangers.

Composite 50 stealth is highly preferred.
Composite 52 weapon is essentially a necessity to maximize physical damage.


    Style-wise, 18 CD gets the utility while 39 Blades gets that sweet 30% ASR, otherwise the differences in Growth Rates are negligible.
    CD Anytime = .49 -> .81
    Blades Anytime = .48 -> .80 with 30% ASR
    CD Evade = .88 bleed3-> .92 23% ASR
    Blades Evade = .89 4sec stun -> .88 bleed8
[list=]Blades ASR is second style off anytime[/list]
[list=]CD ASR is second style off evade after a bleed[/list]
[list=]Difference between 39 and 44 Blades for style damage appears to be ~1-2 damage per hit[/list]
[list=]Sweet spots seem to be 39 Blades and 18 CD[/list]


PF provides a decent benefit not to be underestimated.


    50 PF = 62 str & 90 d/q & 9.4da
    42 PF = 51 str & 78 d/q & 7.3da
    Red DA = 28.77% more damage than Yellow DA

From the perspective of DA at RR1:
42pf/44cd = 100% damage + 100%*72.3% = 172.3%
46pf/18cd = 128.77% damage + 128.77%*49.94% = 193%

A major issue with Phoenix for stealthers is the low weaponskill due to lack of buffbots and reliance upon CF Pots. Having the ability to spec PF and gain the necessary weaponstat boosts that are not available to other stealthers seems like a fantastic boon along with DA and SpecAF.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 3:39 PM by imweasel
sylvynyr wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 3:07 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 9:31 AM
If you are melee ranger, what is the point to have an add dmg that you don't maximize the value with a low CD spec...
For a low rr melee ranger, PF should be 40. There is not enough gain with the red add dmg (3-5 dmg pet hits vs the yellow) and red buffs for the invested points (what you want is the red force buff as a blade user and it's a lot of points wasted to reach that).

My spec :
33 blade
44 CD
42 PF
31 stealth
14 bow

It's too hard to pass the fireblade combo and the dmg of the first style is bad so I got rid of it and I use the debuff atk speed on evade with the CD chain (I would not do that before 6/7L and keep the 39 blade until then).

Phoenix provides +.86% offhand chance per CD point with 25% base
    2019-3-2 Saturday
    dw / cd scaling increase from .68% per dw spec point to .86%

RR1
    18+11 = 29 CD = ~49.94% offhand chance
    44+11 = 55 CD = ~72.3% offhand chance

RR9 (assuming since spec 33 blades is mentioned + 19 = 52 composite)
    18+19 = 37 CD = ~56.82 offhand chance
    44+19 = 63 CD = ~79.18% offhand chance


Technically 18 -> 44 could be considered a 22.36% DPS improvement over enough time, however out of every 10 attacks it means swinging the offhand ~2 extra times and damage is not guaranteed (can still miss, be evaded, parried, blocked, etc). There's also improvement to style damage if CD styles are used, however Blades seem more useful in most scenarios for Rangers.

Composite 50 stealth is highly preferred.
Composite 52 weapon is essentially a necessity to maximize physical damage.


    Style-wise, 18 CD gets the utility while 39 Blades gets that sweet 30% ASR, otherwise the differences in Growth Rates are negligible.
    CD Anytime = .49 -> .81
    Blades Anytime = .48 -> .80 with 30% ASR
    CD Evade = .88 bleed3-> .92 23% ASR
    Blades Evade = .89 4sec stun -> .88 bleed8
[list=]Blades ASR is second style off anytime[/list]
[list=]CD ASR is second style off evade after a bleed[/list]
[list=]Difference between 39 and 44 Blades for style damage appears to be ~1-2 damage per hit[/list]
[list=]Sweet spots seem to be 39 Blades and 18 CD[/list]


PF provides a decent benefit not to be underestimated.


    50 PF = 62 str & 90 d/q & 9.4da
    42 PF = 51 str & 78 d/q & 7.3da
    Red DA = 28.77% more damage than Yellow DA

From the perspective of DA at RR1:
42pf/44cd = 100% damage + 100%*72.3% = 172.3%
46pf/18cd = 128.77% damage + 128.77%*49.94% = 193%

A major issue with Phoenix for stealthers is the low weaponskill due to lack of buffbots and reliance upon CF Pots. Having the ability to spec PF and gain the necessary weaponstat boosts that are not available to other stealthers seems like a fantastic boon along with DA and SpecAF.

So as a blades spec Shar melee ranger would this be a good spec for low rr?

38 stealth
39 blades
18 CD
13 bow
50 PF

There seems to be a far ranging opinion on how to spec a melee ranger...
Tue 7 Apr 2020 4:15 PM by sylvynyr
imweasel wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 3:39 PM
So as a blades spec Shar melee ranger would this be a good spec for low rr?

38 stealth
39 blades
18 CD
13 bow
50 PF

There seems to be a far ranging opinion on how to spec a melee ranger...

Yes, I believe so. As you RR up, simply respec stealth to composite 50 and either increase bow or CD.

YMMV ofc
Tue 7 Apr 2020 5:11 PM by Noashakra
    50 PF = 62 str & 90 d/q & 9.4da
    42 PF = 51 str & 78 d/q & 7.3da
    Red DA = 28.77% more damage than Yellow DA

From the perspective of DA at RR1:
42pf/44cd = 100% damage + 100%*72.3% = 172.3%
46pf/18cd = 128.77% damage + 128.77%*49.94% = 193%

A major issue with Phoenix for stealthers is the low weaponskill due to lack of buffbots and reliance upon CF Pots. Having the ability to spec PF and gain the necessary weaponstat boosts that are not available to other stealthers seems like a fantastic boon along with DA and SpecAF.
[/quote]

You can't take a % of dommage of the add dommage and add it to your overall DPS.

if you want to make a calculation let's do it it... (I took 30% increase add dmg red vs yellow so it even favors you). 42 PF 44 dual vs 46PF 18 dual
Those are my dmg unstyled on dummy (80% chances to swing left hand)

Round 1 Round 2 Round 3 Round 4 Round 5 Round 6 Round 7 Round 8 Round 9 Round 10 Total
Right hand 93 93 93 93 93 93 93 93 93 93 total 930
add dmg yellow 15 15 15 20 15 15 15 15 15 15 total 150
Left hand 63 0 63 63 63 63 63 63 63 0 total 504
add dmg yellow 13 0 13 13 13 13 13 13 0 13 total 104
Grand total 1688


I took the same stats with an increase of 28% for the add dmg and took roughly 60% chances to hit left hand so I substracted 2 swings
Round 1 Round 2 Round 3 Round 4 Round 5 Round 6 Round 7 Round 8 Round 9 Round 10 Total
Right hand 93 93 93 93 93 93 93 93 93 93 total 930
add dmg red 19 19 20 19 20 19 19 19 19 19 total 192
Left hand 63 0 63 0 63 63 63 63 0 0 total 378
add dmg red 16 16 16 16 16 15 0 0 total 96
Grand total 1620


The melee dps is higher. with the 44/42 vs 46/18...
i don't even take into account that when you swing left hand, you a a change to do a double swing, making you swing faster right hand thus increasing your DPS even higher... Also, you have the procs of the weapons...

So you are wrong for the add dmg gain

For the str, it's a few points, and doesn't add a lot in term of raw dmg compared to all the points you lose in other specs... (the D/Q red is useless for a melee ranger, MoArcanes 5 + quickness 1 and it's done) it's better to compensate with RA.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 5:35 PM by sylvynyr
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 5:11 PM
You can't take a % of dommage of the add dommage and add it to your overall DPS.

DA is a DPS addition.

DPS = Damage per second

Damage per second remains constant no matter how fast or how many times you swing.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 5:37 PM by dbeattie71
imweasel wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 3:39 PM
sylvynyr wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 3:07 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 9:31 AM
If you are melee ranger, what is the point to have an add dmg that you don't maximize the value with a low CD spec...
For a low rr melee ranger, PF should be 40. There is not enough gain with the red add dmg (3-5 dmg pet hits vs the yellow) and red buffs for the invested points (what you want is the red force buff as a blade user and it's a lot of points wasted to reach that).

My spec :
33 blade
44 CD
42 PF
31 stealth
14 bow

It's too hard to pass the fireblade combo and the dmg of the first style is bad so I got rid of it and I use the debuff atk speed on evade with the CD chain (I would not do that before 6/7L and keep the 39 blade until then).

Phoenix provides +.86% offhand chance per CD point with 25% base
    2019-3-2 Saturday
    dw / cd scaling increase from .68% per dw spec point to .86%

RR1
    18+11 = 29 CD = ~49.94% offhand chance
    44+11 = 55 CD = ~72.3% offhand chance

RR9 (assuming since spec 33 blades is mentioned + 19 = 52 composite)
    18+19 = 37 CD = ~56.82 offhand chance
    44+19 = 63 CD = ~79.18% offhand chance


Technically 18 -> 44 could be considered a 22.36% DPS improvement over enough time, however out of every 10 attacks it means swinging the offhand ~2 extra times and damage is not guaranteed (can still miss, be evaded, parried, blocked, etc). There's also improvement to style damage if CD styles are used, however Blades seem more useful in most scenarios for Rangers.

Composite 50 stealth is highly preferred.
Composite 52 weapon is essentially a necessity to maximize physical damage.


    Style-wise, 18 CD gets the utility while 39 Blades gets that sweet 30% ASR, otherwise the differences in Growth Rates are negligible.
    CD Anytime = .49 -> .81
    Blades Anytime = .48 -> .80 with 30% ASR
    CD Evade = .88 bleed3-> .92 23% ASR
    Blades Evade = .89 4sec stun -> .88 bleed8
[list=]Blades ASR is second style off anytime[/list]
[list=]CD ASR is second style off evade after a bleed[/list]
[list=]Difference between 39 and 44 Blades for style damage appears to be ~1-2 damage per hit[/list]
[list=]Sweet spots seem to be 39 Blades and 18 CD[/list]


PF provides a decent benefit not to be underestimated.


    50 PF = 62 str & 90 d/q & 9.4da
    42 PF = 51 str & 78 d/q & 7.3da
    Red DA = 28.77% more damage than Yellow DA

From the perspective of DA at RR1:
42pf/44cd = 100% damage + 100%*72.3% = 172.3%
46pf/18cd = 128.77% damage + 128.77%*49.94% = 193%

A major issue with Phoenix for stealthers is the low weaponskill due to lack of buffbots and reliance upon CF Pots. Having the ability to spec PF and gain the necessary weaponstat boosts that are not available to other stealthers seems like a fantastic boon along with DA and SpecAF.

So as a blades spec Shar melee ranger would this be a good spec for low rr?

38 stealth
39 blades
18 CD
13 bow
50 PF

There seems to be a far ranging opinion on how to spec a melee ranger...

I've always had 50pf, started with +15 str too. With self buffs, pots, and ra's I'm at 305str 2120 hps. What's a bow? lol
Tue 7 Apr 2020 5:40 PM by Noashakra
sylvynyr wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 5:35 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 5:11 PM
You can't take a % of dommage of the add dommage and add it to your overall DPS.

DA is a DPS addition.

DPS = Damage per second

Damage per second remains constant no matter how fast or how many times you swing.

i used the wrong term sorry about that.
But do you challenge my conclusion or not ? That even without taking weapon procs into account and the increase swing speed when you double hit, on paper my 44CD/42PF is better than 46PF/18CD.

then we can move to 50PF and why it's a waste of points (for a melee ranger ofc).

It's funny because I see you all debating here about melee ranger, but how many of you play solo on this serv ?
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:19 PM by Noashakra
imweasel wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 2:57 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 9:31 AM
If you are melee ranger, what is the point to have an add dmg that you don't maximize the value with a low CD spec...
For a low rr melee ranger, PF should be 40. There is not enough gain with the red add dmg (3-5 dmg pet hits vs the yellow) and red buffs for the invested points (what you want is the red force buff as a blade user and it's a lot of points wasted to reach that).

My spec :
33 blade
44 CD
42 PF
31 stealth
14 bow

It's too hard to pass the fireblade combo and the dmg of the first style is bad so I got rid of it and I use the debuff atk speed on evade with the CD chain (I would not do that before 6/7L and keep the 39 blade until then).

How do you get composite stealth to 50? Or does that not matter? And why 42pf? Is +14af buff worth it?

Sorry I missed you post, I am 9L so I have 50 in stealth composite. It was this or bow or 2 points un dual. I don't care about the bow, and with MoA 5 it's a nice boost in AF so I took that.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:30 PM by sylvynyr
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 5:40 PM
i used the wrong term sorry about that.
But do you challenge my conclusion or not ? That even without taking weapon procs into account and the increase swing speed when you double hit, on paper my 44CD/42PF is better than 46PF/18CD.

Even with increased swing speed, DPS remains constant (DA included)... hitting more times for less damage... per weapon.
Procs are also based on a proc per second constant which is why slower weapons proc more, although the proc rate is specific to the type and source of proc.

That being said, I concede that 42/44 is approximately 8.53% more DPS at RR9 based solely on the differences between CD and PF. My original mistake incorrectly considered DA multiplicative instead of additive.

16.5 DPS weapons
100% DPS = damage done over time including yellow DA setting the baseline at 100%
108.82% DPS = damage done over time with red DA
16.5DPS + 7.3 = 23.8 = 100%
16.5DPS + 9.4 = 25.9 - 23.8 / 23.8 = 8.82% more

44cd = ~79.18% offhand chance from 25% + (44+19)*.86 = 25% + 54.18% = 79.18%
18cd = ~56.82% offhance chance from 25% + (18+19)*.86 = 25% + 31.82% = 56.82%

DPS = MH + (OH * Chance to swing)
42pf/44cd spec DPS = 100% + (100% * 79.18%)
46pf/18cd spec DPS = 108.82% + (108.82% * 56.82%)

42pf/44cd spec DPS = 100% + 79.18%
46pf/18cd spec DPS = 108.82% + 61.83%

42pf/44cd spec DPS = 179.18%
46pf/18cd spec DPS = 170.65%

However, I strongly believe 39bl outperforms 44cd style-wise with the evade based stun and anytime 30% ASR while holding similar GRs and 50pf provides +11 str and +12 dex/quick over 42pf that cannot be acquired by other stealth classes (except maybe hunters). Damage modifier (based on stats) is the bane of the soloer.
The style damage difference between 39 and 44 remains minor around 1-2 damage for either style line.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:33 PM by Noashakra
The problem with fireblade, it's that you go against lots of people with :
Evade + debuffs
blocks + parade

it's a nightmare to passe the 2 styles, and the dps of fireblade is horrible, you NEED to pass the 2nd style to have a similar DPS as the taunt twice.
It was too hard to pass the 2nd style and I was losing fights because of this.
11 strenght is on paper 2 points of dmg pet hit. I made the calculation with Str 3. So what is the point to invest so many points that could go elsewhere ? You would gain more DPS with the style dmg with the points you would put in blade or dual. The dex is useless for melee ranger, only the viva is important and you can get to 250 with quickness 1 and MoA 5 and the yellow buff.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:38 PM by Freedomcall
Btw why are you two guys comparing rr9 spec vs rr3 spec?
If you are RR9, you are already at 28CD, not 18CD.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:40 PM by Noashakra
Freedomcall wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:38 PM
Btw why are you two guys comparing rr9 spec vs rr3 spec?
If you are RR9, you are already at 28CD, not 18CD.

What? I compare what is comparable. I don't know what you speak about
Second I said I would not go for this kind of spec before the 5/6L because you need to decrease blade but keep composite 52.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:40 PM by daytonchambers
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:33 PM
The problem with fireblade, it's that you go against lots of people with :
Evade + debuffs
blocks + parade

it's a nightmare to passe the 2 styles, and the dps of fireblade is horrible, you NEED to pass the 2nd style to have a similar DPS as the taunt twice.
It was too hard to pass the 2nd style and I was losing fights because of this.
11 strenght is on paper 2 points of dmg pet hit. I made the calculation with Str 3. So what is the point to invest so many points that could go elsewhere ? You would gain more DPS with the style dmg with the points you would put in blade or dual. The dex is useless for melee ranger, only the viva is important and you can get to 250 with quickness 1 and MoA 5 and the yellow buff.


You don't use Fire Blade chain repeatedly. You do it long enough to land the ASR, then you switch to styles with better growth.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:42 PM by Noashakra
daytonchambers wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:40 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:33 PM
The problem with fireblade, it's that you go against lots of people with :
Evade + debuffs
blocks + parade

it's a nightmare to passe the 2 styles, and the dps of fireblade is horrible, you NEED to pass the 2nd style to have a similar DPS as the taunt twice.
It was too hard to pass the 2nd style and I was losing fights because of this.
11 strenght is on paper 2 points of dmg pet hit. I made the calculation with Str 3. So what is the point to invest so many points that could go elsewhere ? You would gain more DPS with the style dmg with the points you would put in blade or dual. The dex is useless for melee ranger, only the viva is important and you can get to 250 with quickness 1 and MoA 5 and the yellow buff.


You don't use Fire Blade chain repeatedly. You do it long enough to land the ASR, then you switch to styles with better growth.

You think I didn't know that ? I was 39 blade until the 7L.
Do you think you were solo enough to have the same experience I have in 1vs1?

It's true that I kill a lot of people not lvl 50, but still, I give a good fight to 9L+ sins...
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:50 PM by daytonchambers
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:42 PM
You think I didn't know that ? I was 39 blade until the 7L.
Do you think you were solo enough to have the same experience I have in 1vs1 ?


No need to get pissy, I was simply stating my point of view about the styles in general and not trying to "school you" in particular.

The player needs to determine whether the lower dps and likely misses are worth it when the ASR payoff finally lands. This will be based on the players experience, and what particular class they're fighting. Simple as that.

And for the record I am also in the rr7s and play solo, so yes I do think I have similar experience to you when it comes to trying to land style chains.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:52 PM by Freedomcall
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:40 PM
Freedomcall wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:38 PM
Btw why are you two guys comparing rr9 spec vs rr3 spec?
If you are RR9, you are already at 28CD, not 18CD.

What? I compare what is comparable. I don't know what you speak about
Second I said I would not go for this kind of spec before the 5/6L because you need to decrease blade but keep composite 52.

Yeah I already read that 5/6L stuff, all good, but you keep comparing 44CD/42PF with 46PF/18CD and it is pretty misleading.

Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 5:40 PM
But do you challenge my conclusion or not ? That even without taking weapon procs into account and the increase swing speed when you double hit, on paper my 44CD/42PF is better than 46PF/18CD.

If you want to compare RR9 spec, you should compare 44CD/42PF with 46PF/28CD for more accurate debate.
Or, something that is not 44CD, if you want to talk about low RR spec, cuz 44CD is not low RR rangers can go.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:55 PM by Noashakra
daytonchambers wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:50 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:42 PM
You think I didn't know that ? I was 39 blade until the 7L.
Do you think you were solo enough to have the same experience I have in 1vs1 ?


No need to get pissy, I was simply stating my point of view about the styles in general and not trying to "school you" in particular.

The player needs to determine whether the lower dps and likely misses are worth it when the ASR payoff finally lands. This will be based on the players experience, and what particular class they're fighting. Simple as that.

And for the record I am also in the rr7s and play solo, so yes I do think I have similar experience to you when it comes to trying to land style chains.

You have 6% of my solo kills, so excuse me if you lecturing me about how I should play my ranger made me react in an aggressive maner
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:57 PM by Quik
I solo more than you solo!!!!

And my soloing dad can beat up your soloing dad!!!
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:58 PM by sylvynyr
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:33 PM
The problem with fireblade, it's that you go against lots of people with :
Evade + debuffs
blocks + parade

it's a nightmare to passe the 2 styles, and the dps of fireblade is horrible, you NEED to pass the 2nd style to have a similar DPS as the taunt twice.
It was too hard to pass the 2nd style and I was losing fights because of this.
11 strenght is on paper 2 points of dmg pet hit. I made the calculation with Str 3. So what is the point to invest so many points that could go elsewhere ? You would gain more DPS with the style dmg with the points you would put in blade or dual. The dex is useless for melee ranger, only the viva is important and you can get to 250 with quickness 1 and MoA 5 and the yellow buff.

D/Q still improves Evasion and helps cap swing speed as you mentioned.
What is +11 strength when debuffed though?
11 RA points to cap quickness? (other benefits from MoA are acknowledged such as improvements to CF Pots

Fireblade, Spectrum Blade and Squall (Taunt) all have the same to hit bonus.
.59 + .59 = .59 average GR (squall + squall)
.48 + .80 = .64 average GR (fireblade + spectrum blade) if they both hit of course

I won't discredit your experience especially considering your RR, but I wanna say I rather consistently hit two style combos both on my Blades NS and Blades Ranger, both with a 2nd chain style providing that sweet sweet added ASR benefit, and both are Lurikeens gimped on Strength.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:58 PM by Noashakra
Freedomcall wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:52 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:40 PM
Freedomcall wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:38 PM
Btw why are you two guys comparing rr9 spec vs rr3 spec?
If you are RR9, you are already at 28CD, not 18CD.

What? I compare what is comparable. I don't know what you speak about
Second I said I would not go for this kind of spec before the 5/6L because you need to decrease blade but keep composite 52.

Yeah I already read that 5/6L stuff, all good, but you keep comparing 44CD/42PF with 46PF/18CD and it is pretty misleading.

Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 5:40 PM
But do you challenge my conclusion or not ? That even without taking weapon procs into account and the increase swing speed when you double hit, on paper my 44CD/42PF is better than 46PF/18CD.

If you want to compare RR9 spec, you should compare 44CD/42PF with 46PF/28CD for more accurate debate.
Or, something that is not 44CD, if you want to talk about low RR spec, cuz 44CD is not low RR rangers can go.

Exept I am not the one who brought the 46/18 (you can be 18 if you put your points in other stuff like bow or blade even at rr9). So i compared what was brought to me.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:01 PM by sylvynyr
Freedomcall wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:38 PM
Btw why are you two guys comparing rr9 spec vs rr3 spec?
If you are RR9, you are already at 28CD, not 18CD.

Good point.

16.5 DPS weapons
100% DPS = damage done over time including yellow DA setting the baseline at 100%
108.82% DPS = damage done over time with red DA
16.5DPS + 7.3 = 23.8 = 100%
16.5DPS + 9.4 = 25.9 - 23.8 / 23.8 = 8.82% more

44cd = ~79.18% offhand chance from 25% + (44+19)*.86 = 25% + 54.18% = 79.18%
28cd = ~65.42% offhance chance from 25% + (18+19)*.86 = 25% + 40.42% = 65.42%

DPS = MH + (OH * Chance to swing)
42pf/44cd spec DPS = 100% + (100% * 79.18%)
46pf/28cd spec DPS = 108.82% + (108.82% * 65.42%)

42pf/44cd spec DPS = 100% + 79.18%
46pf/28cd spec DPS = 108.82% + 71.19%

42pf/44cd spec DPS = 179.18%
46pf/28cd spec DPS = 180.01%

46pf/28cd Wins!

Actually, at RR9 I'd go:
31st
39bl
28cd
50pf
12bow (save the points)
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:03 PM by Freedomcall
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:58 PM
Freedomcall wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:52 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:40 PM
What? I compare what is comparable. I don't know what you speak about
Second I said I would not go for this kind of spec before the 5/6L because you need to decrease blade but keep composite 52.

Yeah I already read that 5/6L stuff, all good, but you keep comparing 44CD/42PF with 46PF/18CD and it is pretty misleading.

Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 5:40 PM
But do you challenge my conclusion or not ? That even without taking weapon procs into account and the increase swing speed when you double hit, on paper my 44CD/42PF is better than 46PF/18CD.

If you want to compare RR9 spec, you should compare 44CD/42PF with 46PF/28CD for more accurate debate.
Or, something that is not 44CD, if you want to talk about low RR spec, cuz 44CD is not low RR rangers can go.

Exept I am not the one who brought the 46/18 (you can be 18 if you put your points in other stuff like bow or blade even at rr9). So i compared what was brought to me.

Yeah that's why i said 'you two guys' initially and you suddenly became salty
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:03 PM by Noashakra
sylvynyr wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:58 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:33 PM
The problem with fireblade, it's that you go against lots of people with :
Evade + debuffs
blocks + parade

it's a nightmare to passe the 2 styles, and the dps of fireblade is horrible, you NEED to pass the 2nd style to have a similar DPS as the taunt twice.
It was too hard to pass the 2nd style and I was losing fights because of this.
11 strenght is on paper 2 points of dmg pet hit. I made the calculation with Str 3. So what is the point to invest so many points that could go elsewhere ? You would gain more DPS with the style dmg with the points you would put in blade or dual. The dex is useless for melee ranger, only the viva is important and you can get to 250 with quickness 1 and MoA 5 and the yellow buff.

D/Q still improves Evasion and helps cap swing speed as you mentioned.
What is +11 strength when debuffed though?
11 RA points to cap quickness? (other benefits from MoA are acknowledged such as improvements to CF Pots

Fireblade, Spectrum Blade and Squall (Taunt) all have the same to hit bonus.
.59 + .59 = .59 average GR (squall + squall)
.48 + .80 = .64 average GR (fireblade + spectrum blade) if they both hit of course

I won't discredit your experience especially considering your RR, but I wanna say I rather consistently hit two style combos both on my Blades NS and Blades Ranger, both with a 2nd chain style providing that sweet sweet added ASR benefit, and both are Lurikeens gimped on Strength.

With a NS, it's good because of the advantage with all your debuffs, but on a ranger I disagree. The problem is that 10% miss + 25% evade vs a sin, it makes it hard to land the chain, and when want to land it, it's a the start of the fight. In my experience, it's too hard to pass on everything that has a high defense. Also the points I spare in blade can be used elsewhere.
The dex/qui bonus to evade is peanuts, it's not even 0.5%, so the dex is only useful for a bow user.

Also you second example, with 28, it's not working like this... Do you want another calculation ? it's actually simple, take my table above and add 6.32 dmg ((63+19) *0.8%*10 dual points)
you still don't reach same dps as the 44/42
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:04 PM by daytonchambers
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:55 PM
You have 6% of my solo kills, so excuse me if you lecturing me about how I should play my ranger made me react in an aggressive manner


We're supposed to be helping out and advising new Rangers here, not comparing dick size over solo kills.

There are multiple opportunities to land the fire-spectrum chain, either after an Ice storm or a Horizon is one possibility provided the stun isn't immediately purged. And you should know this.

Simply stating that fire-spectrum chain is bad dps and implying that it should be avoided is, in my opinion, bad advice. the Spectrum ASR paired with the D/Q debuff from Shadowwalker is a devastating combo, and no good melee ranger should be without that in their bag of tricks.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:08 PM by sylvynyr
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:03 PM
With a NS, it's good because of the advantage with all your debuffs, but on a ranger I disagree. The problem is that 10% miss + 25% evade vs a sin, it makes it hard to land the chain, and when want to land it, it's a the start of the fight. In my experience, it's too hard to pass on everything that has a high defense. Also the points I spare in blade can be used elsewhere.
The dex/qui bonus to evade is peanuts, it's not even 0.5%, so the dex is only useful for a bow user.

But we're talking about a lot of peanuts here, especially at RR9.

39 vs 44 spec = 1-2 damage
+11 str = 1-2 damage
.5% here .2% there... it all adds up.

And please don't get me wrong. I appreciate people challenging my perspective; helps me improve and doing so helped me figure out a flaw in my math, then someone else challenged us and pointed out a flaw in our spec assumptions. The shared goal is to make a better Ranger
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:09 PM by Noashakra
sylvynyr wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:08 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:03 PM
With a NS, it's good because of the advantage with all your debuffs, but on a ranger I disagree. The problem is that 10% miss + 25% evade vs a sin, it makes it hard to land the chain, and when want to land it, it's a the start of the fight. In my experience, it's too hard to pass on everything that has a high defense. Also the points I spare in blade can be used elsewhere.
The dex/qui bonus to evade is peanuts, it's not even 0.5%, so the dex is only useful for a bow user.

But we're talking about a lot of peanuts here, especially at RR9.

39 vs 44 spec = 1-2 damage
+11 str = 1-2 damage
.5% here .2% there... it all adds up.
yeah same value for how many points spent? you could spend them in dual instead and increase your DPS this way.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:11 PM by Noashakra
daytonchambers wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:04 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:55 PM
You have 6% of my solo kills, so excuse me if you lecturing me about how I should play my ranger made me react in an aggressive manner

There are multiple opportunities to land the fire-spectrum chain, either after an Ice storm or a Horizon is one possibility provided the stun isn't immediately purged. And you should know this.

I used the CD debuff chain after a stun which deal WAY more dmg and debuff atk by 22%. If you play solo, you don't alway have the luxery to place a side stun.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:11 PM by sylvynyr
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:09 PM
sylvynyr wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:08 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:03 PM
With a NS, it's good because of the advantage with all your debuffs, but on a ranger I disagree. The problem is that 10% miss + 25% evade vs a sin, it makes it hard to land the chain, and when want to land it, it's a the start of the fight. In my experience, it's too hard to pass on everything that has a high defense. Also the points I spare in blade can be used elsewhere.
The dex/qui bonus to evade is peanuts, it's not even 0.5%, so the dex is only useful for a bow user.

But we're talking about a lot of peanuts here, especially at RR9.

39 vs 44 spec = 1-2 damage
+11 str = 1-2 damage
.5% here .2% there... it all adds up.
yeah same value for how many points spent? you could spend them in dual instead.

Except we just saw that 42pf/44cd is 1% less DPS than 46pf/28cd...
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:13 PM by Noashakra
sylvynyr wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:11 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:09 PM
sylvynyr wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:08 PM
But we're talking about a lot of peanuts here, especially at RR9.

39 vs 44 spec = 1-2 damage
+11 str = 1-2 damage
.5% here .2% there... it all adds up.
yeah same value for how many points spent? you could spend them in dual instead.

Except we just saw that 42pf/44cd is 1% less DPS than 46pf/28cd...
except that your calculation is wrong. I post it again :

Also you second example, with 28, it's not working like this... Do you want another calculation ? it's actually simple, take my table above and add 6.32 dmg ((63+19) *0.8%*10 dual points)
you still don't reach same dps as the 44/42
because you have 8% chances more to land a hit, you add 8% of one hit to my 46/18 calculation, it's still inferior there.
AGAIN :
this doesn't take into acount all the rest like a LT proc from your left hand that is actually a huge deal in a duel.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:16 PM by sylvynyr
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:11 PM
daytonchambers wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:04 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 6:55 PM
You have 6% of my solo kills, so excuse me if you lecturing me about how I should play my ranger made me react in an aggressive manner

There are multiple opportunities to land the fire-spectrum chain, either after an Ice storm or a Horizon is one possibility provided the stun isn't immediately purged. And you should know this.

I used the CD debuff chain after a stun which deal WAY more dmg and debuff atk by 22%. If you play solo, you don't alway have the luxery to place a side stun.

CD Debuff Evade .88 -> .92 = .900 avg
Blades Stun Evade .89 -> .88 = .885 avg

Or maybe you used the Blades evade stun first, while I would use the evade stun style twice before proceeding to the next style.

.89 -> .88 -> .92 = .897 avg
.89 -> .89 -> .88 = .887 avg

Or maybe use the evade stun, then land your 2nd pt 30% ASR?
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:18 PM by sylvynyr
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:13 PM
except that your calculation is wrong. I post it again :

Also you second example, with 28, it's not working like this... Do you want another calculation ? it's actually simple, take my table above and add 6.32 dmg ((63+19) *0.8%*10 dual points)
you still don't reach same dps as the 44/42
because you have 8% chances more to land a hit, you add 8% of one hit to my 46/18 calculation, it's still inferior there.
AGAIN :
this doesn't take into acount all the rest like a LT proc from your left hand that is actually a huge deal in a duel.

Again, DPS is over time. Either you do calculations based on relative percentages which account for certain constants, or you sample a large enough pool to see the specific effects over time.

And again.... procs have a rate over time. Slow weapons will proc more because there are less chances/swings for it to proc.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:19 PM by Noashakra
sylvynyr wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:16 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:11 PM
daytonchambers wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:04 PM
There are multiple opportunities to land the fire-spectrum chain, either after an Ice storm or a Horizon is one possibility provided the stun isn't immediately purged. And you should know this.

I used the CD debuff chain after a stun which deal WAY more dmg and debuff atk by 22%. If you play solo, you don't alway have the luxery to place a side stun.

CD Debuff Evade .88 -> .92 = .900 avg
Blades Stun Evade .89 -> .88 = .885 avg

Or maybe you used the Blades evade stun first, while I would use the evade stun style twice before proceeding to the next style.

.89 -> .88 -> .92 = .897 avg
.89 -> .89 -> .88 = .887 avg

Or maybe use the evade stun, then land your 2nd pt 30% ASR?

except that because I have more in dual than in blade, my dual style make more in term of dmg, so I have no interest in landing twice the stun style.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:19 PM by sylvynyr
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:19 PM
sylvynyr wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:16 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:11 PM
I used the CD debuff chain after a stun which deal WAY more dmg and debuff atk by 22%. If you play solo, you don't alway have the luxery to place a side stun.

CD Debuff Evade .88 -> .92 = .900 avg
Blades Stun Evade .89 -> .88 = .885 avg

Or maybe you used the Blades evade stun first, while I would use the evade stun style twice before proceeding to the next style.

.89 -> .88 -> .92 = .897 avg
.89 -> .89 -> .88 = .887 avg

Or maybe use the evade stun, then land your 2nd pt 30% ASR?

except that because I have more in dual than in blade, my dual style make more in term of dmg, so I have no interest in landing twice the stun style.

You're right. Best spec ever. Good luck!
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:22 PM by Noashakra
sylvynyr wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:18 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:13 PM
except that your calculation is wrong. I post it again :

Also you second example, with 28, it's not working like this... Do you want another calculation ? it's actually simple, take my table above and add 6.32 dmg ((63+19) *0.8%*10 dual points)
you still don't reach same dps as the 44/42
because you have 8% chances more to land a hit, you add 8% of one hit to my 46/18 calculation, it's still inferior there.
AGAIN :
this doesn't take into acount all the rest like a LT proc from your left hand that is actually a huge deal in a duel.

Again, DPS is over time. Either you do calculations based on relative percentages which account for certain constants, or you sample a large enough pool to see the specific effects over time.

And again.... procs have a rate over time. Slow weapons will proc more because there are less chances/swings for it to proc.

A dd proc adds to your dps man, it seems that you don't get that. If I proc more, my DPS increase because I do more dmg in the same time lapse... They don't have a proc rate over time. They weapon has a proc rate that is weapon speed *2.5% (from memory this 2.5%), and the faster you hit, the more you proc during a fight, that's why you want to slower MH possible and reach the swing cap...

So a 3.9 weapon with 1.5s swing speed will proc less than a 4.2 weapon that swings at 1.5s.

Do you know your subject ?

You are wrong on all your calculations and you give advices...
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:27 PM by daytonchambers
This has devolved from "post your ranger spec" to "argue with one another about who has the best spec"

Start with 35st 39blade 19CD 40PF. After that take the remaining points and dump them in either PF and CD for a melee toon, or get bow to 35 for a hybrid.

Or, Just be a keen shooter and everything is fixed! =)
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:31 PM by Noashakra
daytonchambers wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:27 PM
This has devolved from "post your ranger spec" to "argue with one another about who has the best spec"

Start with 35st 39blade 19CD 40PF. After that take the remaining points and dump them in either PF and CD for a melee toon, or get bow to 35 for a hybrid.

Or, Just be a keen shooter and everything is fixed! =)

Man it's not a problem, everyone should spec as they want, but what pissed me off is to see advices made with wrong assuptions.
I am not saying that my 33 blades is better, than the 39, if you like the debuff nopb, I give my opinion about why at high rank it's not the best.
But for the CD vs PF dps calculation, or for the proc rate, it's just wrong.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:39 PM by sylvynyr
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:22 PM
A dd proc adds to your dps man, it seems that you don't get that. If I proc more, my DPS increase because I do more dmg in the same time lapse... They don't have a proc rate over time. They have a proc rate that is weapon speed *2.5% (from memory this 2.5%), and the faster you hit, the more you proc during a fight, that's why you want to slower MH possible and reach the swing cap...
Do you know your subject ?

You are not the only one who has procs in that equation. And procs fire based of a proc rate over time... Trying to find the Grab Bag that spelled it out, but in the meantime here are two tidbits...

2019-5-23 Thursday
reflex attack chance now takes weapon speed into account like other melee proc chances

http://apothecary.daoc-sites.info/faq.php
Q. What is the percentage chance of an Effect / Reactive Effect going off?
A. The chance for an Effect to 'proc' is based on the delay of the weapon it is imbued into but Mythic has not released the formula for how it is calculated.

Weapon procs take SPD into account meaning faster weapons proc less often per swing, but have more chances/swings to proc and slower weapons proc more often per swing, but they have less chances/swings to proc over the same amount of time. In the end, they proc the same amount over time (edit) given its the same proc on both weapons.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:48 PM by Noashakra
sylvynyr wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:39 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:22 PM
A dd proc adds to your dps man, it seems that you don't get that. If I proc more, my DPS increase because I do more dmg in the same time lapse... They don't have a proc rate over time. They have a proc rate that is weapon speed *2.5% (from memory this 2.5%), and the faster you hit, the more you proc during a fight, that's why you want to slower MH possible and reach the swing cap...
Do you know your subject ?

You are not the only one who has procs in that equation. And procs fire based of a proc rate over time... Trying to find the Grab Bag that spelled it out, but in the meantime here are two tidbits...

2019-5-23 Thursday
reflex attack chance now takes weapon speed into account like other melee proc chances

http://apothecary.daoc-sites.info/faq.php
Q. What is the percentage chance of an Effect / Reactive Effect going off?
A. The chance for an Effect to 'proc' is based on the delay of the weapon it is imbued into but Mythic has not released the formula for how it is calculated.

Weapon procs take SPD into account meaning faster weapons proc less often per swing, but have more chances/swings to proc and slower weapons proc more often per swing, but they have less chances/swings to proc over the same amount of time. In the end, they proc the same amount over time.

Oh thanks, for proving my point. it take SPD so it's a multiplicator of your weapon speed lol (3.9 or 4.2). Except that when your reach the swing speed, because the proc is dependant of the SPD of the WEAPON, the 4.2 will proc more often when you reach the swing cap...
if you take both weapon with an toon that doesn't cap the swing speed, it doesn't change anything (hey it's what I wrote before !) they will proc the same over time.

3.9 * 2.5 > 9.75% chance to proc pet hit, but you swing more often
4.2 * 2.5 > 10.5% chance to proc pet hit, but you swing less often
DPS is the same over time
HOWEVER this change when you reach the swing speed cap... Because both weapons will swing at the same speed, but the weapon SPD is different.
That's why it's IMPORTANT to double hit dual, because it makes you land your MH hit faster. Each time you hit left hand, you have a chance to double hit.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:52 PM by daytonchambers
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:31 PM
Man it's not a problem, everyone should spec as they want, but what pissed me off is to see advices made with wrong assuptions.
I am not saying that my 33 blades is better, than the 39, if you like the debuff nopb, I give my opinion about why at high rank it's not the best.
But for the CD vs PF dps calculation, or for the proc rate, it's just wrong.

I leave the advanced number crunching to the min/max people, and try to get a CD or PF spec that gets me a style or buff I want without dumping too many points into it.

My logic on spec is more like:
Going from 42pf (red AF) to 50pf for the red D/Q and Str buff costs 372 spec points.

for that same amount of points I can take CD from 18 to 32 which, in my opinion, is going to be a bigger bang for my buck than the improvements to the three yellow buffs I already have which would be improved a bit and the faster speed boost. No, I have not done that math on that, simply because I don't care that much.

If I were to do a shar melee ranger, as imweasel was asking about, I would aim for a rr3 build at lv 50 since getting rr3 leveling is pretty damn easy. At rr3 you need to be 39 mainhand anyways to hit the composite 52 cap so 39blades is a logical spec for that reason alone.

Once you start doing real rvr at 50 you can then determine whether or not Spectrum blade is worth it or not, and then lower blades as you RR up if you feel it's not worth speccing for if you dont land it all that much.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:59 PM by sylvynyr
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:48 PM
Oh thanks, for proving my point. it take SPD so it's a multiplicator of your weapon speed lol (3.9 or 4.2). Except that when your reach the swing speed, because the proc is dependant of the SPD of the WEAPON, the 4.2 will proc more often when you reach the swing cap...
if you take both weapon with an toon that doesn't cap the swing speed, it doesn't change anything (hey it's what I wrote before !) they will proc the same.

Again, no. A particular proc will fire the exact same amount over time no matter what weapon is used. Faster swing speeds do not mean more procs. The point of this exercise is an attempt to explain that procs should be considered a constant and irrelevant when comparing the CD/PF specs in question.

Faster SPD Weapon = more swings per period of time= less chance to proc per swing
Slower SPD Weapon = less swings per same period of time = higher chance to proc per swing

Another tidbit:
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=42852#p42852
Tue 7 Apr 2020 8:03 PM by Noashakra
sylvynyr wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:59 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 7:48 PM
Oh thanks, for proving my point. it take SPD so it's a multiplicator of your weapon speed lol (3.9 or 4.2). Except that when your reach the swing speed, because the proc is dependant of the SPD of the WEAPON, the 4.2 will proc more often when you reach the swing cap...
if you take both weapon with an toon that doesn't cap the swing speed, it doesn't change anything (hey it's what I wrote before !) they will proc the same.

Again, no. A particular proc will fire the exact same amount over time no matter what weapon is used. Faster swing speeds do not mean more procs. The point of this exercise is an attempt to explain that procs should be considered a constant and irrelevant when comparing the CD/PF specs in question.

Faster SPD Weapon = more swings per period of time= less chance to proc per swing
Slower SPD Weapon = less swings per same period of time = higher chance to proc per swing

Another tidbit:
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=42852#p42852

On uthgard the slower the weapon speed (aka 4.2 or 5.5) the higher %chance of proc, ignoring total swing speed.

That's how it's supposed to be. The only difference is that we still set a % chance per proc and hence we can have procs / weapons with a higher chance than the rest but this entered number is then subject to the proc rate change due to weapon speed.

I don't know what you read, but it exactly what I wrote lol

the proc chance is not based on the swing speed, but on the weapon speed. So if tow toons swing at the same speed with two weapons, the one with the slowest weapon speed will proc more over the fight...
Tue 7 Apr 2020 8:08 PM by sylvynyr
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 8:03 PM
On uthgard the slower the weapon speed (aka 4.2 or 5.5) the higher %chance of proc, ignoring total swing speed.

That's how it's supposed to be. The only difference is that we still set a % chance per proc and hence we can have procs / weapons with a higher chance than the rest but this entered number is then subject to the proc rate change due to weapon speed.

I don't know what you read, but it exactly what I wrote lol

What you wrote was

A dd proc adds to your dps man, it seems that you don't get that. If I proc more, my DPS increase because I do more dmg in the same time lapse... They don't have a proc rate over time.

Which is incorrect on so many levels, but you keep changing the argument and so I'm done.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 8:12 PM by Noashakra
sylvynyr wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 8:08 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 8:03 PM
On uthgard the slower the weapon speed (aka 4.2 or 5.5) the higher %chance of proc, ignoring total swing speed.

That's how it's supposed to be. The only difference is that we still set a % chance per proc and hence we can have procs / weapons with a higher chance than the rest but this entered number is then subject to the proc rate change due to weapon speed.

I don't know what you read, but it exactly what I wrote lol

What you wrote was

A dd proc adds to your dps man, it seems that you don't get that. If I proc more, my DPS increase because I do more dmg in the same time lapse... They don't have a proc rate over time.

Which is incorrect on so many levels, but you keep changing the argument and so I'm done.

It like your maths man, you are wrong. You don't understand how the mecanics work.
A 4.2 that swings at 1.5 will have more chances to swing than a 3.9, because it's based on the weapon SPD stat, it's a multiplicator, it's not a dommage over time.
it's a % to proc per hit, like they wrote in what you quoted. A faster weapon has less chances to proc per hit, and a slow one had better chances to proc per hit. Therefore, when you reach or come close to the swing cap, the slow weapon will proc more, therefore your DPS increase.
Seeing how you made your calculations wrong since the start, you should trust me bro when it's about logic and numbers.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 8:50 PM by dbeattie71
I spec 50 pf based on lazyness and the extra 10 mins those buffs are up lol.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 9:19 PM by Noashakra
dbeattie71 wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 8:50 PM
I spec 50 pf based on lazyness and the extra 10 mins those buffs are up lol.

it's 23mn for the yellow buffs too
Tue 7 Apr 2020 9:46 PM by dbeattie71
Noashakra wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 9:19 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 8:50 PM
I spec 50 pf based on lazyness and the extra 10 mins those buffs are up lol.

it's 23mn for the yellow buffs too

I should reread this because I haven't paid attention to the math and lower PF if it makes sense.
Tue 7 Apr 2020 10:30 PM by Cadebrennus
The weapon speed over time always averages out so that weapons are equal in the amount of procs over time. What people seem to be forgetting here is that the higher your CD spec the greater chance you have of your OFFHAND proccing. That will increase your dps and also increase the amount of proc effects that you can get. Using a 95 DD in both hands as a baseline (including resists) plus the DA from PF, you can expect to see the following in the first 30 seconds of a fight:

46 PF 18 CD: 915 extra damage, for a total of an extra 30 damage per second.

42 PF 44 CD: 962 extra damage, for a total of an extra 32 damage per second.

If you have offhand weapons with procs other than damage, it becomes more significant than mere damage, since the 44 CD spec swings the offhand 22% more than the 18CD spec.

It's entirely possible that I may have missed something in my calculations, so feel free to point it out. These calculations also ignore the effect of spec on damage, since this calculator doesn't even touch base or style damage. It is merely the added damage (from DA and procs) only.


If I have time tomorrow I'll extract my calculator from its main sheet so that you guys can mess around with it and possibly improve upon it.
Wed 8 Apr 2020 6:57 AM by Noashakra
You are right for the off hand proc chance.

Grab BagPosted By: Sanya Thomas2006-03-17 wrote:
Q: If you use a weapon with a proc on it, I heard that the effect fires in proportion to your dexterity, but is that true? As a light tank, I typically have no need for dex, but it's a different story if it affects the success rate of procs.
 
A: Dexterity has nothing to do with proc ratios. The Man of Class held the official answer, and he said: "The proc rate on weapons is assigned based on weapon speed, not Dexterity.  Generally, slower weapons have a higher chance to proc and faster weapons have a lower chance to proc."

So if you hit at the same speed, a slower weapon will proc the more often. If you don't cap you swing speed and have the same quickness / RA, it evens out.


Is it true that every/certain armor and weapon pieces have different proc rates compared to others? I've heard that some meth fangs and timeless chest pieces have a much higher proc rate than others, or is it just RNG?
Offensive and reactive proc chances are set on each individual weapon or armor piece so it’s entirely possible that some items do have higher or lower chances to proc but as a general rule we use the following proc rates:

https://darkageofcamelot.com/article/friday-grab-bag-08112017

Reactive armor or shield procs: 10% chance
Offensive 2-handed or 1-handed weapon proc: 10-15% chance
Offensive dual-wielded weapon proc: 6-8% chance
Wed 8 Apr 2020 10:37 AM by majedorcanie
Spec for my ranger Celt :
35 Stealth
39 Blades
40 PF
30 BOW
26 CD
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:24 AM by inoeth
majedorcanie wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 10:37 AM
Spec for my ranger Celt :
35 Stealth
39 Blades
40 PF
30 BOW
26 CD

drop bow to 27 and put the points into cd or pf 28-30 bow wont give you anything
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:25 AM by inoeth
Cadebrennus wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 10:30 PM
The weapon speed over time always averages out so that weapons are equal in the amount of procs over time. What people seem to be forgetting here is that the higher your CD spec the greater chance you have of your OFFHAND proccing. That will increase your dps and also increase the amount of proc effects that you can get. Using a 95 DD in both hands as a baseline (including resists) plus the DA from PF, you can expect to see the following in the first 30 seconds of a fight:

46 PF 18 CD: 915 extra damage, for a total of an extra 30 damage per second.

42 PF 44 CD: 962 extra damage, for a total of an extra 32 damage per second.

If you have offhand weapons with procs other than damage, it becomes more significant than mere damage, since the 44 CD spec swings the offhand 22% more than the 18CD spec.

It's entirely possible that I may have missed something in my calculations, so feel free to point it out. These calculations also ignore the effect of spec on damage, since this calculator doesn't even touch base or style damage. It is merely the added damage (from DA and procs) only.


If I have time tomorrow I'll extract my calculator from its main sheet so that you guys can mess around with it and possibly improve upon it.

can you explain why that only applies for the first 30s of a fight? why would that change after 30s?
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:30 AM by Cadebrennus
inoeth wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:25 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 10:30 PM
The weapon speed over time always averages out so that weapons are equal in the amount of procs over time. What people seem to be forgetting here is that the higher your CD spec the greater chance you have of your OFFHAND proccing. That will increase your dps and also increase the amount of proc effects that you can get. Using a 95 DD in both hands as a baseline (including resists) plus the DA from PF, you can expect to see the following in the first 30 seconds of a fight:

46 PF 18 CD: 915 extra damage, for a total of an extra 30 damage per second.

42 PF 44 CD: 962 extra damage, for a total of an extra 32 damage per second.

If you have offhand weapons with procs other than damage, it becomes more significant than mere damage, since the 44 CD spec swings the offhand 22% more than the 18CD spec.

It's entirely possible that I may have missed something in my calculations, so feel free to point it out. These calculations also ignore the effect of spec on damage, since this calculator doesn't even touch base or style damage. It is merely the added damage (from DA and procs) only.


If I have time tomorrow I'll extract my calculator from its main sheet so that you guys can mess around with it and possibly improve upon it.

can you explain why that only applies for the first 30s of a fight? why would that change after 30s?

It doesn't apply only to the first 30 seconds of a fight. I did calculations based on the first 30 seconds, the first 60 seconds, and also 120 seconds of a fight, based on the average time of a fight (30-60 seconds) as well as what the /use timer is (2 minutes). Everything of course assumes that every single hit lands (when it actually doesn't) and that the player is uninterrupted (which never happens).
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:35 AM by inoeth
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:30 AM
inoeth wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:25 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Tue 7 Apr 2020 10:30 PM
The weapon speed over time always averages out so that weapons are equal in the amount of procs over time. What people seem to be forgetting here is that the higher your CD spec the greater chance you have of your OFFHAND proccing. That will increase your dps and also increase the amount of proc effects that you can get. Using a 95 DD in both hands as a baseline (including resists) plus the DA from PF, you can expect to see the following in the first 30 seconds of a fight:

46 PF 18 CD: 915 extra damage, for a total of an extra 30 damage per second.

42 PF 44 CD: 962 extra damage, for a total of an extra 32 damage per second.

If you have offhand weapons with procs other than damage, it becomes more significant than mere damage, since the 44 CD spec swings the offhand 22% more than the 18CD spec.

It's entirely possible that I may have missed something in my calculations, so feel free to point it out. These calculations also ignore the effect of spec on damage, since this calculator doesn't even touch base or style damage. It is merely the added damage (from DA and procs) only.


If I have time tomorrow I'll extract my calculator from its main sheet so that you guys can mess around with it and possibly improve upon it.

can you explain why that only applies for the first 30s of a fight? why would that change after 30s?

It doesn't apply only to the first 30 seconds of a fight. I did calculations based on the first 30 seconds, the first 60 seconds, and also 120 seconds of a fight, based on the average time of a fight (30-60 seconds) as well as what the /use timer is (2 minutes). Everything of course assumes that every single hit lands (when it actually doesn't) and that the player is uninterrupted (which never happens).

that would mean that proc chances vary, which they do not. also what has that to do with item charge timers? well i could understand that if we assume you would charge a dmg add, then the first 60s would be different but you say 30s that does not make any sense... light me up scotty
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:36 AM by Cadebrennus
majedorcanie wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 10:37 AM
Spec for my ranger Celt :
35 Stealth
39 Blades
40 PF
30 BOW
26 CD

Drop stealth and put those points in Bow to get to 35 Bow. Unless you need to be right on top of your target to attack (you don't) then you don't need composite 50 stealth. Stealther players already get a bonus to see you so you will be seen regardless of spec. The only players you need to be concerned about hiding from are visi players. They can already see you from 125 units. Every composite point of stealth below 50 gives them an extra 25 distance that they can see you. If you are (for example) 45 composite stealth, you can be seen from 250 units away instead of 125 units away.

Try this. In game, type /groundset 125. Then type /groundset 250. Those are the distances (and the differences) at which you can be seen. Then decide if you want to give up Rapid Fire for not being detected at an additional 125 units.
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:40 AM by Cadebrennus
inoeth wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:35 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:30 AM
inoeth wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:25 AM
can you explain why that only applies for the first 30s of a fight? why would that change after 30s?

It doesn't apply only to the first 30 seconds of a fight. I did calculations based on the first 30 seconds, the first 60 seconds, and also 120 seconds of a fight, based on the average time of a fight (30-60 seconds) as well as what the /use timer is (2 minutes). Everything of course assumes that every single hit lands (when it actually doesn't) and that the player is uninterrupted (which never happens).

that would mean that proc chances vary, which they do not. also what has that to do with item charge timers? well i could understand that if we assume you would charge a dmg add, then the first 60s would be different but you say 30s that does not make any sense... light me up scotty

Proc chances vary according to the listed weapon speed, not how fast you attack with that weapon. A damage add only lasts for 30 seconds, and has a reuse timer of 120 seconds. So, when using an item, you have to decide between things such as a bigger damage add /use, a heal /use, a debuff /use, etc. Fights generally last between 30 and 60 seconds, according to an informal poll I took from alliance members, as well as from my own experience.
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:41 AM by sylvynyr
Potential fallacies with some of the presented logic:

1) Assuming proc rates are a flat chance per hit without considering an "over time" aspect
- Proc rates are assigned per proc type and adjusted to weapon SPD, therefore should consider an "over time" component
2) Assuming the offhand "haste effect" has an effect on base DPS (including DA)
- Swing speed is averaged every time both MH and OH swing
- - The MH swings faster, but the OH swings slower by the same amount which should result in the same base DPS
3) Assuming the offhand "haste effect" has an effect on proc rate
- Swing speed is averaged every time both MH and OH swing
- - The MH swings faster, but the OH swings slower by the same amount which should result in the same overall proc rate
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:51 AM by Cadebrennus
sylvynyr wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:41 AM
Potential fallacies with some of the presented logic:

1) Assuming proc rates are a flat chance per hit without considering an "over time" aspect
- Proc rates are assigned per proc type and adjusted to weapon SPD, therefore should consider an "over time" component
2) Assuming the offhand "haste effect" has an effect on base DPS (including DA)
- Swing speed is averaged every time both MH and OH swing
- - The MH swings faster, but the OH swings slower by the same amount which should result in the same base DPS
3) Assuming the offhand "haste effect" has an effect on proc rate
- Swing speed is averaged every time both MH and OH swing
- - The MH swings faster, but the OH swings slower by the same amount which should result in the same overall proc rate

Agreed. This is why my calculations accounted for an averaged weapon speed (I looked at the fastest and the slowest Blades weapons), while still taking into account offhand swing chance. I definitely put proc damage into the calculations as an over time effect rather than a per-hit effect, which is why I presented my data in 30 second chunks.

I think most people are forgetting points 1) 2) and 3) so thanks for pointing those out.



Interesting little tidbit I noticed when doing a separate calculation: (working from memory here)
Going from a 3.1 offhand to a 2.4 speed offhand netted me an approximately 8% faster mainhand hit, but also meant a 22% drop in offhand damage.

Question: is that 22% drop in damage per offhand hit worth the 8% gain in speed? Does an 8% gain in speed per hit translate to only an 8% increase in damage over time? Or is there some other number I'm missing here?
Wed 8 Apr 2020 12:04 PM by inoeth
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:40 AM
inoeth wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:35 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:30 AM
It doesn't apply only to the first 30 seconds of a fight. I did calculations based on the first 30 seconds, the first 60 seconds, and also 120 seconds of a fight, based on the average time of a fight (30-60 seconds) as well as what the /use timer is (2 minutes). Everything of course assumes that every single hit lands (when it actually doesn't) and that the player is uninterrupted (which never happens).

that would mean that proc chances vary, which they do not. also what has that to do with item charge timers? well i could understand that if we assume you would charge a dmg add, then the first 60s would be different but you say 30s that does not make any sense... light me up scotty

Proc chances vary according to the listed weapon speed, not how fast you attack with that weapon. A damage add only lasts for 30 seconds, and has a reuse timer of 120 seconds. So, when using an item, you have to decide between things such as a bigger damage add /use, a heal /use, a debuff /use, etc. Fights generally last between 30 and 60 seconds, according to an informal poll I took from alliance members, as well as from my own experience.

yes according to the weapon speed but not randomly during a fight.. also since we are talking about rangers here, one would assume the ranger uses his own dmg add and no charge. so your 30s thing is irrelevant here. so lets hold for the record: the dmg does not change after 30s
Wed 8 Apr 2020 12:09 PM by inoeth
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:51 AM
sylvynyr wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:41 AM
Potential fallacies with some of the presented logic:

1) Assuming proc rates are a flat chance per hit without considering an "over time" aspect
- Proc rates are assigned per proc type and adjusted to weapon SPD, therefore should consider an "over time" component
2) Assuming the offhand "haste effect" has an effect on base DPS (including DA)
- Swing speed is averaged every time both MH and OH swing
- - The MH swings faster, but the OH swings slower by the same amount which should result in the same base DPS
3) Assuming the offhand "haste effect" has an effect on proc rate
- Swing speed is averaged every time both MH and OH swing
- - The MH swings faster, but the OH swings slower by the same amount which should result in the same overall proc rate

Agreed. This is why my calculations accounted for an averaged weapon speed (I looked at the fastest and the slowest Blades weapons), while still taking into account offhand swing chance. I definitely put proc damage into the calculations as an over time effect rather than a per-hit effect, which is why I presented my data in 30 second chunks.

I think most people are forgetting points 1) 2) and 3) so thanks for pointing those out.



Interesting little tidbit I noticed when doing a separate calculation: (working from memory here)
Going from a 3.1 offhand to a 2.4 speed offhand netted me an approximately 8% faster mainhand hit, but also meant a 22% drop in offhand damage.

Question: is that 22% drop in damage per offhand hit worth the 8% gain in speed? Does an 8% gain in speed per hit translate to only an 8% increase in damage over time? Or is there some other number I'm missing here?

yes, the style dmg which adds to every swing. thats why everyone since 20 years is getting a fast offhand and a slow main hand.

there was just one guy who found out that in fact its the total opposite, i dont remember the name... something with c.. cad... cadebrennus! oh damn thats you!
Wed 8 Apr 2020 12:31 PM by Cadebrennus
inoeth wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 12:04 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:40 AM
inoeth wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:35 AM
that would mean that proc chances vary, which they do not. also what has that to do with item charge timers? well i could understand that if we assume you would charge a dmg add, then the first 60s would be different but you say 30s that does not make any sense... light me up scotty

Proc chances vary according to the listed weapon speed, not how fast you attack with that weapon. A damage add only lasts for 30 seconds, and has a reuse timer of 120 seconds. So, when using an item, you have to decide between things such as a bigger damage add /use, a heal /use, a debuff /use, etc. Fights generally last between 30 and 60 seconds, according to an informal poll I took from alliance members, as well as from my own experience.

yes according to the weapon speed but not randomly during a fight.. also since we are talking about rangers here, one would assume the ranger uses his own dmg add and no charge. so your 30s thing is irrelevant here. so lets hold for the record: the dmg does not change after 30s

The numbers I posted earlier don't assume a damage add charge. If you read it, it assumes the Ranger is using the DA from the PF spec. Damage over 30 seconds is still relevant because that's the average quick fight between two combatants.
Wed 8 Apr 2020 12:35 PM by inoeth
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 12:31 PM
inoeth wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 12:04 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:40 AM
Proc chances vary according to the listed weapon speed, not how fast you attack with that weapon. A damage add only lasts for 30 seconds, and has a reuse timer of 120 seconds. So, when using an item, you have to decide between things such as a bigger damage add /use, a heal /use, a debuff /use, etc. Fights generally last between 30 and 60 seconds, according to an informal poll I took from alliance members, as well as from my own experience.

yes according to the weapon speed but not randomly during a fight.. also since we are talking about rangers here, one would assume the ranger uses his own dmg add and no charge. so your 30s thing is irrelevant here. so lets hold for the record: the dmg does not change after 30s

The numbers I posted earlier don't assume a damage add charge. If you read it, it assumes the Ranger is using the DA from the PF spec. Damage over 30 seconds is still relevant because that's the average quick fight between two combatants.

if you dont charge anything that influences your dmg, its totally irrelevant if the fights last 30s or X seconds, your dmg will always be the same.
but i guess you tested that again lol
Wed 8 Apr 2020 12:36 PM by Cadebrennus
inoeth wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 12:09 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:51 AM
sylvynyr wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:41 AM
Potential fallacies with some of the presented logic:

1) Assuming proc rates are a flat chance per hit without considering an "over time" aspect
- Proc rates are assigned per proc type and adjusted to weapon SPD, therefore should consider an "over time" component
2) Assuming the offhand "haste effect" has an effect on base DPS (including DA)
- Swing speed is averaged every time both MH and OH swing
- - The MH swings faster, but the OH swings slower by the same amount which should result in the same base DPS
3) Assuming the offhand "haste effect" has an effect on proc rate
- Swing speed is averaged every time both MH and OH swing
- - The MH swings faster, but the OH swings slower by the same amount which should result in the same overall proc rate

Agreed. This is why my calculations accounted for an averaged weapon speed (I looked at the fastest and the slowest Blades weapons), while still taking into account offhand swing chance. I definitely put proc damage into the calculations as an over time effect rather than a per-hit effect, which is why I presented my data in 30 second chunks.

I think most people are forgetting points 1) 2) and 3) so thanks for pointing those out.



Interesting little tidbit I noticed when doing a separate calculation: (working from memory here)
Going from a 3.1 offhand to a 2.4 speed offhand netted me an approximately 8% faster mainhand hit, but also meant a 22% drop in offhand damage.

Question: is that 22% drop in damage per offhand hit worth the 8% gain in speed? Does an 8% gain in speed per hit translate to only an 8% increase in damage over time? Or is there some other number I'm missing here?

yes, the style dmg which adds to every swing. thats why everyone since 20 years is getting a fast offhand and a slow main hand.

there was just one guy who found out that in fact its the total opposite, i dont remember the name... something with c.. cad... cadebrennus! oh damn thats you!

Okay smart-ass, then multiply 0.08 times the style damage and add that to the total damage taking into account the average amount of times the weapon swings and hits over 30 seconds. Or, you could simply up your reading comprehension game, since obviously your reading skill is on par with your PvP skill and RvR skill, since you missed the part where I already said I haven't taken the weapon damage into account regarding these particular calculations in general. The last part of that post was meant for the person I responded to, not a mouth-breather that lacks basic knowledge and manners.
Wed 8 Apr 2020 12:52 PM by inoeth
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 12:36 PM
inoeth wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 12:09 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:51 AM
Agreed. This is why my calculations accounted for an averaged weapon speed (I looked at the fastest and the slowest Blades weapons), while still taking into account offhand swing chance. I definitely put proc damage into the calculations as an over time effect rather than a per-hit effect, which is why I presented my data in 30 second chunks.

I think most people are forgetting points 1) 2) and 3) so thanks for pointing those out.



Interesting little tidbit I noticed when doing a separate calculation: (working from memory here)
Going from a 3.1 offhand to a 2.4 speed offhand netted me an approximately 8% faster mainhand hit, but also meant a 22% drop in offhand damage.

Question: is that 22% drop in damage per offhand hit worth the 8% gain in speed? Does an 8% gain in speed per hit translate to only an 8% increase in damage over time? Or is there some other number I'm missing here?

yes, the style dmg which adds to every swing. thats why everyone since 20 years is getting a fast offhand and a slow main hand.

there was just one guy who found out that in fact its the total opposite, i dont remember the name... something with c.. cad... cadebrennus! oh damn thats you!

Okay smart-ass, then multiply 0.08 times the style damage and add that to the total damage taking into account the average amount of times the weapon swings and hits over 30 seconds. Or, you could simply up your reading comprehension game, since obviously your reading skill is on par with your PvP skill and RvR skill, since you missed the part where I already said I haven't taken the weapon damage into account regarding these particular calculations in general. The last part of that post was meant for the person I responded to, not a mouth-breather that lacks basic knowledge and manners.

talking about manners, calling me a mouth breather LOOOL
its always fun to uncover your bullshit
Wed 8 Apr 2020 1:33 PM by majedorcanie
inoeth wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:24 AM
majedorcanie wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 10:37 AM
Spec for my ranger Celt :
35 Stealth
39 Blades
40 PF
30 BOW
26 CD

drop bow to 27 and put the points into cd or pf 28-30 bow wont give you anything

At 30 i have Penetrating Arrow for Chance to pen. bladeturn for 50% damage.
Wed 8 Apr 2020 1:35 PM by Cadebrennus
inoeth wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 12:52 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 12:36 PM
inoeth wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 12:09 PM
yes, the style dmg which adds to every swing. thats why everyone since 20 years is getting a fast offhand and a slow main hand.

there was just one guy who found out that in fact its the total opposite, i dont remember the name... something with c.. cad... cadebrennus! oh damn thats you!

Okay smart-ass, then multiply 0.08 times the style damage and add that to the total damage taking into account the average amount of times the weapon swings and hits over 30 seconds. Or, you could simply up your reading comprehension game, since obviously your reading skill is on par with your PvP skill and RvR skill, since you missed the part where I already said I haven't taken the weapon damage into account regarding these particular calculations in general. The last part of that post was meant for the person I responded to, not a mouth-breather that lacks basic knowledge and manners.

talking about manners, calling me a mouth breather LOOOL
its always fun to uncover your bullshit

I highly suggest you read the response to your post, just above this post lol
Wed 8 Apr 2020 1:37 PM by inoeth
majedorcanie wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 1:33 PM
inoeth wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:24 AM
majedorcanie wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 10:37 AM
Spec for my ranger Celt :
35 Stealth
39 Blades
40 PF
30 BOW
26 CD

drop bow to 27 and put the points into cd or pf 28-30 bow wont give you anything

At 30 i have Penetrating Arrow for Chance to pen. bladeturn for 50% damage.

yeah auto bubble, mighty! in fact thats as usefull as a second hole in the butt
Wed 8 Apr 2020 1:38 PM by inoeth
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 1:35 PM
inoeth wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 12:52 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 12:36 PM
Okay smart-ass, then multiply 0.08 times the style damage and add that to the total damage taking into account the average amount of times the weapon swings and hits over 30 seconds. Or, you could simply up your reading comprehension game, since obviously your reading skill is on par with your PvP skill and RvR skill, since you missed the part where I already said I haven't taken the weapon damage into account regarding these particular calculations in general. The last part of that post was meant for the person I responded to, not a mouth-breather that lacks basic knowledge and manners.

talking about manners, calling me a mouth breather LOOOL
its always fun to uncover your bullshit

I highly suggest you read the response to your post, just above this post lol

i did and also answered, so?
if yet you didnt know how usefull penetrating arrow actually is, np dude im always there to help.
Wed 8 Apr 2020 3:17 PM by Horus
majedorcanie wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 1:33 PM
inoeth wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:24 AM
majedorcanie wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 10:37 AM
Spec for my ranger Celt :
35 Stealth
39 Blades
40 PF
30 BOW
26 CD

drop bow to 27 and put the points into cd or pf 28-30 bow wont give you anything

At 30 i have Penetrating Arrow for Chance to pen. bladeturn for 50% damage.

Yea, that only affects the Blade Turn casted on others and does not affect the person who casted it or any other self casted bubble...it is pretty worthless.
Wed 8 Apr 2020 3:40 PM by Cadebrennus
Horus wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 3:17 PM
majedorcanie wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 1:33 PM
inoeth wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 11:24 AM
drop bow to 27 and put the points into cd or pf 28-30 bow wont give you anything

At 30 i have Penetrating Arrow for Chance to pen. bladeturn for 50% damage.

Yea, that only affects the Blade Turn casted on others and does not affect the person who casted it or any other self casted bubble...it is pretty worthless.

Solo, sure it's less useful. Firing into a zerg or being a useful Archer in a visi group, it becomes much more useful, especially when paired with Rapid Fire.

Thing is, a solo player is pretty useless to their realm in general. I'm not bad-mouthing solo play, I've done my fair share of it on Live, in particular. It's just that solo play contributes absolutely zero to the RvR game. Penetrating Arrow on the other hand, actually has a use when used against PBT or BT cast by others.
Wed 8 Apr 2020 6:37 PM by imweasel
Wow. Did this go a different route.

The reasons that I am getting confused about spec'ing:

1) Is it better to spec low in blades and high in CD? Or the opposite? How important is it to spec in the base weapon? How much does it or doesn't affect damage variance and weapon skill? Or does one line have better styles/damage?

2) How much PF should you take? I've seen the following suggested - 36, 40, 42, 46 and 50. That's a big difference.

The only thing that been agreed on is Archery. As low as it can go with leftover points only.
Wed 8 Apr 2020 7:37 PM by Cadebrennus
imweasel wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 6:37 PM
Wow. Did this go a different route.

The reasons that I am getting confused about spec'ing:

1) Is it better to spec low in blades and high in CD? Or the opposite? How important is it to spec in the base weapon? How much does it or doesn't affect damage variance and weapon skill? Or does one line have better styles/damage?

2) How much PF should you take? I've seen the following suggested - 36, 40, 42, 46 and 50. That's a big difference.

The only thing that been agreed on is Archery. As low as it can go with leftover points only.

Quoting myself since someone else here likes to troll anyone posting any information, and they spammed the thread with their drivel. Moving on:

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:30 pm
The weapon speed over time always averages out so that weapons are equal in the amount of procs over time. What people seem to be forgetting here is that the higher your CD spec the greater chance you have of your OFFHAND proccing. That will increase your dps and also increase the amount of proc effects that you can get. Using a 95 DD in both hands as a baseline (including resists) plus the DA from PF, you can expect to see the following in the first 30 seconds of a fight:

46 PF 18 CD: 915 extra damage, for a total of an extra 30 damage per second.

42 PF 44 CD: 962 extra damage, for a total of an extra 32 damage per second.

If you have offhand weapons with procs other than damage, it becomes more significant than mere damage, since the 44 CD spec swings the offhand 22% more than the 18CD spec.

It's entirely possible that I may have missed something in my calculations, so feel free to point it out. These calculations also ignore the effect of spec on damage, since this calculator doesn't even touch base or style damage. It is merely the added damage (from DA and procs) only.
[\quote]

Basically the added procs from the offhand make up the difference in damage, as well as give you a greater opportunity for procs with effects. 36 PF is the minimum for a respectable Damage Add. 40 PF is for the yellow Dex/Qui buff, and 42 PF is for the purple spec. 46 is for the top tier PF DA, but my opinion is if you're going 46 PF, then you might as well go 48 for the Dex/Qui to boost your defense and your attack speed.
Wed 8 Apr 2020 9:37 PM by imweasel
Well I'm going to try this spec:

RR3

37 stealth
39 blades
13 bow
20 CD
50 PF

See how it goes...

*Edit to add*
Maybe I'm missing something, but to get CD and PF that high, you are not going to be spec 52 in blades. Not even close. Is that going to seriously affect damage variance and/or weapon skill?
Thu 9 Apr 2020 6:55 AM by Noashakra
imweasel wrote:
Wed 8 Apr 2020 9:37 PM
Well I'm going to try this spec:

RR3

37 stealth
39 blades
13 bow
20 CD
50 PF

See how it goes...

*Edit to add*
Maybe I'm missing something, but to get CD and PF that high, you are not going to be spec 52 in blades. Not even close. Is that going to seriously affect damage variance and/or weapon skill?
You need to be high RR, like 8 or 9L. I have 33 blade because i have +19 in the skill.
Thu 9 Apr 2020 6:59 AM by Cadebrennus
Something that everyone keeps missing here is that 52 comp Blades isn't the stopping point, it's the starting point for better damage. If you're going to use Blades styles then you need to get your Blades skill as high as possible. The only time you can comfortably rest at 52 comp Blades is if your CD skill is much higher and you're using CD styles for damage.
Thu 9 Apr 2020 7:46 AM by Noashakra
Cadebrennus wrote:
Thu 9 Apr 2020 6:59 AM
Something that everyone keeps missing here is that 52 comp Blades isn't the stopping point, it's the starting point for better damage. If you're going to use Blades styles then you need to get your Blades skill as high as possible. The only time you can comfortably rest at 52 comp Blades is if your CD skill is much higher and you're using CD styles for damage.

That's why I only use the stun and the side snare in blade :p
Sat 11 Apr 2020 8:02 PM by watbrif
If you run with the bg, how much melee power do you actually need?

Stealth 30
Pierce 34
CD 19
Bow 35
PF 48

Any thoughts?
Sat 11 Apr 2020 8:13 PM by Cadebrennus
watbrif wrote:
Sat 11 Apr 2020 8:02 PM
If you run with the bg, how much melee power do you actually need?

Stealth 30
Pierce 34
CD 19
Bow 35
PF 48

Any thoughts?

If this is a pure BG spec then ya sure, but won't you have Druid buffs?
Sat 11 Apr 2020 11:39 PM by watbrif
Cadebrennus wrote:
Sat 11 Apr 2020 8:13 PM
watbrif wrote:
Sat 11 Apr 2020 8:02 PM
If you run with the bg, how much melee power do you actually need?

Stealth 30
Pierce 34
CD 19
Bow 35
PF 48

Any thoughts?

If this is a pure BG spec then ya sure, but won't you have Druid buffs?

Yes, I've been thinking about this as well, but I usually don't like basing the spec on the availability of other classes. But I reckon the alternative would be a fairly standard 32/39/18/35/43? I'm not sure if I need the last damage add in a bow-spec leaning build. I'm intrigued by the melee spec, too - but I always assumed it would be fairly useless for BG?
Sun 12 Apr 2020 12:18 AM by Cadebrennus
watbrif wrote:
Sat 11 Apr 2020 11:39 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Sat 11 Apr 2020 8:13 PM
watbrif wrote:
Sat 11 Apr 2020 8:02 PM
If you run with the bg, how much melee power do you actually need?

Stealth 30
Pierce 34
CD 19
Bow 35
PF 48

Any thoughts?

If this is a pure BG spec then ya sure, but won't you have Druid buffs?

Yes, I've been thinking about this as well, but I usually don't like basing the spec on the availability of other classes. But I reckon the alternative would be a fairly standard 32/39/18/35/43? I'm not sure if I need the last damage add in a bow-spec leaning build. I'm intrigued by the melee spec, too - but I always assumed it would be fairly useless for BG?

You could push your melee really high at the expense of bow, or stealth, or PF, or any combination thereof, but honestly in a BG you'll be using melee primarily as melee CC and not really as primary melee DPS. In your situation I would go at least 46 PF for the DA, unless you're weird like me and use a DA charge instead. A DA charge combined with low PF (21 or 16) is pretty cool in that the damage spikes really high with bow, but the downside is the dip after the spike. Basically if in theory if you fired nonstop with a /use DA and low PF you'd have excellent damage 25% of the time and 'meh' damage the other 75% of the time. With a 46 PF spec you don't have to worry about it. With a 48 spec (as above in your suggestion) you can get a higher Dex/Qui buff than what typical RvR Druids spec for, but at the expense of a lot of points.

In short, make sure you get that damage add from somewhere, because it's pretty significant when using a 5.5 speed.bow.
Thu 30 Apr 2020 11:24 AM by gotwqqd
How would
35st
48 pf
18cd
39bl
24 arch
Be?
Thu 30 Apr 2020 12:13 PM by Cadebrennus
gotwqqd wrote:
Thu 30 Apr 2020 11:24 AM
How would
35st
48 pf
18cd
39bl
24 arch
Be?

Depends on your purpose. I found 39 blades/ 18 cd with high pf to be pretty weak in melee damage. If you're going to be shooting things more often then I'd swap the stealth and archery, and just learn to use hard and soft cover to supplement your lower stealth. IMO it doesn't matter what an archer's stealth spec is, because you're going to be found by other stealthers regardless. 24 stealth is plenty to hide from Visis and doesn't affect your alpha attack other than a greater chance to unstealth when drawing your bow.
Thu 30 Apr 2020 12:41 PM by gotwqqd
inoeth wrote:
Sun 5 Apr 2020 12:30 PM
lmao, rear chain, when do you get it off as a ranger? like never.... but instead you lose either good buffs or CD
also "in the middle" CD spec i actually better than low CD spec, fact.
as a melee ranger it really depends on spreading your spec points to get the most dmg out of it, maximizing one spec line leads to being weak.
what does that mean?
you want to have:

medium to high weapon spec for better style bonus (39-44)
at least yellow buffs (d/q, dmg add)
as much as possible CD for increased off hand hit chance, which a) increases you swing speed b) off hand hit+dmg add=more dmg

so in the end you have something like

39-44 blade
40-46 pf
23-38 CD
35 stealth
12 bow

if you want to be more bow orientated

39 blade
18 CD
40-46 pf
27-35 bow
35 stealth
So
Is 35 bow worth the reduced benefits of pf line?

How about 24 bow/48pf?
Thu 30 Apr 2020 12:46 PM by inoeth
gotwqqd wrote:
Thu 30 Apr 2020 12:41 PM
inoeth wrote:
Sun 5 Apr 2020 12:30 PM
lmao, rear chain, when do you get it off as a ranger? like never.... but instead you lose either good buffs or CD
also "in the middle" CD spec i actually better than low CD spec, fact.
as a melee ranger it really depends on spreading your spec points to get the most dmg out of it, maximizing one spec line leads to being weak.
what does that mean?
you want to have:

medium to high weapon spec for better style bonus (39-44)
at least yellow buffs (d/q, dmg add)
as much as possible CD for increased off hand hit chance, which a) increases you swing speed b) off hand hit+dmg add=more dmg

so in the end you have something like

39-44 blade
40-46 pf
23-38 CD
35 stealth
12 bow

if you want to be more bow orientated

39 blade
18 CD
40-46 pf
27-35 bow
35 stealth
So
Is 35 bow worth the reduced benefits of pf line?

How about 24 bow/48pf?

with 24 you will miss the highest crit shot at 27
48 pf can be an option at lower RR when you dont have the points for augquick/moarcana to reach 250 quickness, later you want the points for extra CD spec
Thu 30 Apr 2020 3:51 PM by gotwqqd
inoeth wrote:
Thu 30 Apr 2020 12:46 PM
gotwqqd wrote:
Thu 30 Apr 2020 12:41 PM
inoeth wrote:
Sun 5 Apr 2020 12:30 PM
lmao, rear chain, when do you get it off as a ranger? like never.... but instead you lose either good buffs or CD
also "in the middle" CD spec i actually better than low CD spec, fact.
as a melee ranger it really depends on spreading your spec points to get the most dmg out of it, maximizing one spec line leads to being weak.
what does that mean?
you want to have:

medium to high weapon spec for better style bonus (39-44)
at least yellow buffs (d/q, dmg add)
as much as possible CD for increased off hand hit chance, which a) increases you swing speed b) off hand hit+dmg add=more dmg

so in the end you have something like

39-44 blade
40-46 pf
23-38 CD
35 stealth
12 bow

if you want to be more bow orientated

39 blade
18 CD
40-46 pf
27-35 bow
35 stealth
So
Is 35 bow worth the reduced benefits of pf line?

How about 24 bow/48pf?

with 24 you will miss the highest crit shot at 27
48 pf can be an option at lower RR when you dont have the points for augquick/moarcana to reach 250 quickness, later you want the points for extra CD spec
I was looking at a damage spreadsheet someone put together showing 25bow had only 25 less damage per shot than 30
It was 445/470
Thu 30 Apr 2020 4:26 PM by inoeth
gotwqqd wrote:
Thu 30 Apr 2020 3:51 PM
inoeth wrote:
Thu 30 Apr 2020 12:46 PM
gotwqqd wrote:
Thu 30 Apr 2020 12:41 PM
So
Is 35 bow worth the reduced benefits of pf line?

How about 24 bow/48pf?

with 24 you will miss the highest crit shot at 27
48 pf can be an option at lower RR when you dont have the points for augquick/moarcana to reach 250 quickness, later you want the points for extra CD spec
I was looking at a damage spreadsheet someone put together showing 25bow had only 25 less damage per shot than 30
It was 445/470

its not only the dmg, its also the draw time afaik but yeah well might have to test that... personally i wont go 48 pf
Fri 1 May 2020 12:15 AM by daytonchambers
If you're going to spec bow at all I can't suggest 35bow strongly enough. That first rapid-fire is a crazy good tool to have in your setup.

As far as 48pf or higher goes, that's done exclusively for pure sniping builds, or higher for the red Str buff for pure melee builds. IF you want to do a bit of both then 40-43 Pathfinding is as high as you ought to take it.

To have a fighting chance as a hybrid, the base spec is 40PF, 39 mainhand weapon (your choice) 19 CD, 35 bow, 35 stealth. Adjust to your tastes, but that's the starting point.

My 2c
Fri 1 May 2020 1:09 AM by gotwqqd
daytonchambers wrote:
Fri 1 May 2020 12:15 AM
If you're going to spec bow at all I can't suggest 35bow strongly enough. That first rapid-fire is a crazy good tool to have in your setup.

As far as 48pf or higher goes, that's done exclusively for pure sniping builds, or higher for the red Str buff for pure melee builds. IF you want to do a bit of both then 40-43 Pathfinding is as high as you ought to take it.

To have a fighting chance as a hybrid, the base spec is 40PF, 39 mainhand weapon (your choice) 19 CD, 35 bow, 35 stealth. Adjust to your tastes, but that's the starting point.

My 2c

I was looking at the DAMAGE differences from 14-45 bow spec
Honestly I’m thinking of sub 18 bow with 48/50 pf
And 44+ slash
Fri 1 May 2020 9:02 AM by Noashakra
gotwqqd wrote:
Fri 1 May 2020 1:09 AM
daytonchambers wrote:
Fri 1 May 2020 12:15 AM
If you're going to spec bow at all I can't suggest 35bow strongly enough. That first rapid-fire is a crazy good tool to have in your setup.

As far as 48pf or higher goes, that's done exclusively for pure sniping builds, or higher for the red Str buff for pure melee builds. IF you want to do a bit of both then 40-43 Pathfinding is as high as you ought to take it.

To have a fighting chance as a hybrid, the base spec is 40PF, 39 mainhand weapon (your choice) 19 CD, 35 bow, 35 stealth. Adjust to your tastes, but that's the starting point.

My 2c

I was looking at the DAMAGE differences from 14-45 bow spec
Honestly I’m thinking of sub 18 bow with 48/50 pf
And 44+ slash

The strength of the ranger is the add dmg and the left and swing (but hitting more left hand you increase you add dammage value). 44 slash doesn't bring enough compared to higher CD.

48/50PF is a waste of points too, 11 strength is like 4 dmg per swing main hand. and the red D/Q is not usefull for blade spec.
Fri 1 May 2020 9:22 AM by Cadebrennus
Noashakra wrote:
Fri 1 May 2020 9:02 AM
gotwqqd wrote:
Fri 1 May 2020 1:09 AM
daytonchambers wrote:
Fri 1 May 2020 12:15 AM
If you're going to spec bow at all I can't suggest 35bow strongly enough. That first rapid-fire is a crazy good tool to have in your setup.

As far as 48pf or higher goes, that's done exclusively for pure sniping builds, or higher for the red Str buff for pure melee builds. IF you want to do a bit of both then 40-43 Pathfinding is as high as you ought to take it.

To have a fighting chance as a hybrid, the base spec is 40PF, 39 mainhand weapon (your choice) 19 CD, 35 bow, 35 stealth. Adjust to your tastes, but that's the starting point.

My 2c

I was looking at the DAMAGE differences from 14-45 bow spec
Honestly I’m thinking of sub 18 bow with 48/50 pf
And 44+ slash

The strength of the ranger is the add dmg and the left and swing (but hitting more left hand you increase you add dammage value). 44 slash doesn't bring enough compared to higher CD.

48/50PF is a waste of points too, 11 strength is like 4 dmg per swing main hand. and the red D/Q is not usefull for blade spec.

The top Dex/Qui is actually excellent for a melee build (faster swing time and higher defense) but it's just not worth the spec points to get there IMO.
Fri 1 May 2020 2:13 PM by imweasel
I have tried several specs on my Shar blades ranger. I'm only rr3, but this is where I am at now. I usually run with 1-2 other rangers and respec'ed to

37 stealth
39 blades
27 CD
27 bow
40 PF

I just don't know if this hybrid build is going to work out well or not...

I have thought about lowering PF to 36 and CD to 23 and raising bow to 35 for rapid fire. Any ideas on that?
Fri 1 May 2020 3:23 PM by Noashakra
imweasel wrote:
Fri 1 May 2020 2:13 PM
I have tried several specs on my Shar blades ranger. I'm only rr3, but this is where I am at now. I usually run with 1-2 other rangers and respec'ed to

37 stealth
39 blades
27 CD
27 bow
40 PF

I just don't know if this hybrid build is going to work out well or not...

I have thought about lowering PF to 36 and CD to 23 and raising bow to 35 for rapid fire. Any ideas on that?

It's a good spec at low rr
Fri 1 May 2020 3:41 PM by imweasel
Noashakra wrote:
Fri 1 May 2020 3:23 PM
imweasel wrote:
Fri 1 May 2020 2:13 PM
I have tried several specs on my Shar blades ranger. I'm only rr3, but this is where I am at now. I usually run with 1-2 other rangers and respec'ed to

37 stealth
39 blades
27 CD
27 bow
40 PF

I just don't know if this hybrid build is going to work out well or not...

I have thought about lowering PF to 36 and CD to 23 and raising bow to 35 for rapid fire. Any ideas on that?

It's a good spec at low rr

Which one? The 37/39/27/27/40? Or the second one where I go pf down to 37, CD down to 23 and bumping how to 35?
Fri 1 May 2020 3:53 PM by Noashakra
imweasel wrote:
Fri 1 May 2020 3:41 PM
Noashakra wrote:
Fri 1 May 2020 3:23 PM
imweasel wrote:
Fri 1 May 2020 2:13 PM
I have tried several specs on my Shar blades ranger. I'm only rr3, but this is where I am at now. I usually run with 1-2 other rangers and respec'ed to

37 stealth
39 blades
27 CD
27 bow
40 PF

I just don't know if this hybrid build is going to work out well or not...

I have thought about lowering PF to 36 and CD to 23 and raising bow to 35 for rapid fire. Any ideas on that?

It's a good spec at low rr

Which one? The 37/39/27/27/40? Or the second one where I go pf down to 37, CD down to 23 and bumping how to 35?
the first
Fri 1 May 2020 5:36 PM by Cadebrennus
imweasel wrote:
Fri 1 May 2020 2:13 PM
I have tried several specs on my Shar blades ranger. I'm only rr3, but this is where I am at now. I usually run with 1-2 other rangers and respec'ed to

37 stealth
39 blades
27 CD
27 bow
40 PF

I just don't know if this hybrid build is going to work out well or not...

I have thought about lowering PF to 36 and CD to 23 and raising bow to 35 for rapid fire. Any ideas on that?

Unless you really really need that +17 Dex/Qui I'd recommend Rapid Fire for better utility.
Fri 1 May 2020 7:31 PM by imweasel
I should have expected this, but two opinions and probably supported by good reasons. Probably come down to play style. I rarely solo as I usually group with 1-2 other rangers. So bow spec isn't as important as it would be if I'd solo a lot...

However as I gain RR, I could see myself solo'ing more which probably means I will need 35 bow spec eventually.

Rapid fire is a very useful tool to have in the kit. I run combined arms anyways, so I would be losing out on 17 dex/qui and 8 str, but only needing to cast af and da buffs...

Decisions!
Fri 1 May 2020 10:59 PM by gotwqqd
I think I’m gonna try
44 Blades
46 PF
34 Stealth
18 CD
15 Archery
Sun 3 May 2020 2:31 PM by Raagnarr
Pierce is a no go for melee ranger?
Mon 4 May 2020 6:51 AM by inoeth
Raagnarr wrote:
Sun 3 May 2020 2:31 PM
Pierce is a no go for melee ranger?

it is if you want to spend rp to my midgard toons
Mon 4 May 2020 7:41 AM by Raagnarr
"If you want to spend RP to my mid toons"

Please clarify, as this makes zero sense.
Mon 4 May 2020 7:41 AM by Raagnarr
"If you want to spend RP to my mid toons"

Please clarify, as this makes zero sense.
Mon 4 May 2020 12:21 PM by inoeth
Raagnarr wrote:
Mon 4 May 2020 7:41 AM
"If you want to spend RP to my mid toons"

Please clarify, as this makes zero sense.

mids are resistant to thrust, at least all studded/leather wearers, also thrust does not offer any good styles or weapons. the slash attack speed reduce + galla dq debuff sword is just too good.

so what that means is i would laugh at your corpse with still 50% life left
Mon 4 May 2020 5:18 PM by Tupacalipse
Everyone runs slash. For the reasons mentioned above (damage table in stealth wars, ASR @39slash, d/q debuff weap stacked with the ASR).
By far the stronger in stealth vs stealth.

However, to plays devil's advocate:
-thrust gives more WS to all rangers, especially luri
-synergizes better with bow, which may become better with upcoming archery changes.
-with archery changes, may see some different specs coming out. If you are taking <39 weapon, the tables are evened a little more.
-rangers (unlike NS's), get access to Broodmothers Fang, the slowest 1h available (4.3) and has energy DoT. So DoT stacking with BMF + crafted OH becomes a thing.
-thrust offers the greatest difference between MH/OH speed (4.3/2.3), for highest DW DPS combo (ignoring resist tables).
-5s off-evade stun vs 4s stun in slash

So vs. thrust weak opponents, you would do better. Especially mid thrust weak since they are slash resist (skalds, warrs).
Ranger thrust definitely more arguable than NS thrust (BMF), imo.
So depends how you want to play, but for stealth wars, there isn't a good way to argue for pierce spec. For visi wars, maybe you could argue it.
Tue 5 May 2020 3:56 AM by daytonchambers
Tupacalipse wrote:
Mon 4 May 2020 5:18 PM
-rangers (unlike NS's), get access to Broodmothers Fang, the slowest 1h available (4.3) and has energy DoT. So DoT stacking with BMF + crafted OH becomes a thing.




I ran a dot-stack build, I wish it was better. The damage variance on dot procs is significant, and nothing when compared to Lifebane (even without viper).

If you DO go down this road you can run a quad dot setup, which I tried for a bit but it was overkill for such underwhelming damage. I had Body dot (Stag Spine bow), Matter dot (crafted OH), energy dot (Broodmother), and fire dot (Veil warder Dragon RF vest).

Looks amazing on paper, but at no point did I ever manage to get all 4 ticking at the same time. That, along with the aforementioned dot damage variance made this suit a loser
Tue 5 May 2020 6:12 AM by inoeth
Tupacalipse wrote:
Mon 4 May 2020 5:18 PM
Everyone runs slash. For the reasons mentioned above (damage table in stealth wars, ASR @39slash, d/q debuff weap stacked with the ASR).
By far the stronger in stealth vs stealth.

However, to plays devil's advocate:
-thrust gives more WS to all rangers, especially luri
-synergizes better with bow, which may become better with upcoming archery changes.
-with archery changes, may see some different specs coming out. If you are taking <39 weapon, the tables are evened a little more.
-rangers (unlike NS's), get access to Broodmothers Fang, the slowest 1h available (4.3) and has energy DoT. So DoT stacking with BMF + crafted OH becomes a thing.
-thrust offers the greatest difference between MH/OH speed (4.3/2.3), for highest DW DPS combo (ignoring resist tables).
-5s off-evade stun vs 4s stun in slash

So vs. thrust weak opponents, you would do better. Especially mid thrust weak since they are slash resist (skalds, warrs).
Ranger thrust definitely more arguable than NS thrust (BMF), imo.
So depends how you want to play, but for stealth wars, there isn't a good way to argue for pierce spec. For visi wars, maybe you could argue it.

i heavily doubt that.
asr+dq debuff cuts the swing speed to roughly double the time which means you do double the dmg compared to your opponent. those dot procs you mentioned do around 40 dmg per tick so if both proc you have +80 which is not bad but if you compare that to an average swing of around 150 dmg, this is a joke.
higher WS, wow, does not help you vs your main opponents which are hunters/sb/infi. when the dmg tables are shitty vs them. (you can not ignore that, its tremendous)
attacking mid tanks as ranger good luck, they gonna smash you most time.
5s stun yeah cool but its getting purged anyway.
what kind of synergy do you mean? i think this aims towards augdex?! you know what, stats do not bring much dmg here. guildy did a dmg test when switching races, turned out 60 str did about 19 dmg per swing wow.

but maybe, just maybe the style overhaul will turn the tide here but as far as the thrust styles stay the same i dont see any valid reason to spec this over blades.
Thu 7 May 2020 2:38 PM by Noashakra
Attack speed debuff doesn't reduce your dmg by 2. It's a decrease in dps, but it's very far from reducing dmg by that much.

60 str did about 19 dmg per swing wow
Going from Str 5 to Str 6 made a difference of 2dmg per swing (for 6 points of stats). So 19 is about right.
Fri 8 May 2020 4:47 AM by Tupacalipse
inoeth wrote:
Tue 5 May 2020 6:12 AM
Tupacalipse wrote:
Mon 4 May 2020 5:18 PM
Everyone runs slash. For the reasons mentioned above (damage table in stealth wars, ASR @39slash, d/q debuff weap stacked with the ASR).
By far the stronger in stealth vs stealth.

However, to plays devil's advocate:
-thrust gives more WS to all rangers, especially luri
-synergizes better with bow, which may become better with upcoming archery changes.
-with archery changes, may see some different specs coming out. If you are taking <39 weapon, the tables are evened a little more.
-rangers (unlike NS's), get access to Broodmothers Fang, the slowest 1h available (4.3) and has energy DoT. So DoT stacking with BMF + crafted OH becomes a thing.
-thrust offers the greatest difference between MH/OH speed (4.3/2.3), for highest DW DPS combo (ignoring resist tables).
-5s off-evade stun vs 4s stun in slash

So vs. thrust weak opponents, you would do better. Especially mid thrust weak since they are slash resist (skalds, warrs).
Ranger thrust definitely more arguable than NS thrust (BMF), imo.
So depends how you want to play, but for stealth wars, there isn't a good way to argue for pierce spec. For visi wars, maybe you could argue it.

i heavily doubt that.
asr+dq debuff cuts the swing speed to roughly double the time which means you do double the dmg compared to your opponent. those dot procs you mentioned do around 40 dmg per tick so if both proc you have +80 which is not bad but if you compare that to an average swing of around 150 dmg, this is a joke.
higher WS, wow, does not help you vs your main opponents which are hunters/sb/infi. when the dmg tables are shitty vs them. (you can not ignore that, its tremendous)
attacking mid tanks as ranger good luck, they gonna smash you most time.
5s stun yeah cool but its getting purged anyway.
what kind of synergy do you mean? i think this aims towards augdex?! you know what, stats do not bring much dmg here. guildy did a dmg test when switching races, turned out 60 str did about 19 dmg per swing wow.

but maybe, just maybe the style overhaul will turn the tide here but as far as the thrust styles stay the same i dont see any valid reason to spec this over blades.

Again I'm not saying thrust is better (obviously), but I am making an argument that it's not unreasonable in the right setting / setup.
While I did test effect of AugStats on my hero, I found that each 4 str (aka each Aug level) = ~0.6% DPS gain. BUT it's not only about damage per swing. You also gain increased defensive penetration. Once you are at composite weapon spec, the only thing that affects defensive penetration is Str (or str/dex for pierce). These aren't huge differences with small stat differences but they are real (especially at the extremes) and do have an impact in the RNG game.

The ASR argument is a strong reason to take blades for any class. However, if you have better styles to use (CD styles, CS styles, etc depending class/spec), it can be frustrating wasting all that time trying to land a 2-part chain against a evading/parrying/blocking enemy just so you can get the ASR and move on. If you have nothing better to use anyway then sure it's free and why not.
But for many classes with access to CD, going above composite weapon spec just to get ASR wastes a lot of spec points you could use elsewhere, especially as you get higher RR. Is it worth it? Again, depends on class/spec/setup/opponent.

With regards to DoT procs, they have variance per tick but very consistently do 170-180 dmg per 20 seconds. This can be thought of as a 9.0 DPS damage add that is not affected by enemy defenses but has a 10% to get resisted. Maybe that doesnt sound like a lot but thats a 12-15% DPS gain per stack for most ppl. Get 2 going simultaneously and thats a ~18dps DA / 24-30% DPS gain (hypothetically). I find them particularly effective against defensive opponents since unlike a real DA, evade/parry/block doesn't affect DoTs.

If you are taking a spec that uses 39+ weapon & doesn't rely primarily on CD styles & you're fighting primarily assassins, then yes, blades wins hands down. If you want to use CD styles primarily and want to milk every spec point out of a Wyrd spec and can tolerate doing 5-15% less damage to assassins, you can be that one guy rocking thrusters. Race, weapon, and proc choices can widen or narrow that gap.

TL;DR: there's probably a reason everyone is blades.

~Pollinator
Fri 8 May 2020 6:40 AM by inoeth
Tupacalipse wrote:
Fri 8 May 2020 4:47 AM
inoeth wrote:
Tue 5 May 2020 6:12 AM
Tupacalipse wrote:
Mon 4 May 2020 5:18 PM
Everyone runs slash. For the reasons mentioned above (damage table in stealth wars, ASR @39slash, d/q debuff weap stacked with the ASR).
By far the stronger in stealth vs stealth.

However, to plays devil's advocate:
-thrust gives more WS to all rangers, especially luri
-synergizes better with bow, which may become better with upcoming archery changes.
-with archery changes, may see some different specs coming out. If you are taking <39 weapon, the tables are evened a little more.
-rangers (unlike NS's), get access to Broodmothers Fang, the slowest 1h available (4.3) and has energy DoT. So DoT stacking with BMF + crafted OH becomes a thing.
-thrust offers the greatest difference between MH/OH speed (4.3/2.3), for highest DW DPS combo (ignoring resist tables).
-5s off-evade stun vs 4s stun in slash

So vs. thrust weak opponents, you would do better. Especially mid thrust weak since they are slash resist (skalds, warrs).
Ranger thrust definitely more arguable than NS thrust (BMF), imo.
So depends how you want to play, but for stealth wars, there isn't a good way to argue for pierce spec. For visi wars, maybe you could argue it.

i heavily doubt that.
asr+dq debuff cuts the swing speed to roughly double the time which means you do double the dmg compared to your opponent. those dot procs you mentioned do around 40 dmg per tick so if both proc you have +80 which is not bad but if you compare that to an average swing of around 150 dmg, this is a joke.
higher WS, wow, does not help you vs your main opponents which are hunters/sb/infi. when the dmg tables are shitty vs them. (you can not ignore that, its tremendous)
attacking mid tanks as ranger good luck, they gonna smash you most time.
5s stun yeah cool but its getting purged anyway.
what kind of synergy do you mean? i think this aims towards augdex?! you know what, stats do not bring much dmg here. guildy did a dmg test when switching races, turned out 60 str did about 19 dmg per swing wow.

but maybe, just maybe the style overhaul will turn the tide here but as far as the thrust styles stay the same i dont see any valid reason to spec this over blades.

Again I'm not saying thrust is better (obviously), but I am making an argument that it's not unreasonable in the right setting / setup.
While I did test effect of AugStats on my hero, I found that each 4 str (aka each Aug level) = ~0.6% DPS gain. BUT it's not only about damage per swing. You also gain increased defensive penetration. Once you are at composite weapon spec, the only thing that affects defensive penetration is Str (or str/dex for pierce). These aren't huge differences with small stat differences but they are real (especially at the extremes) and do have an impact in the RNG game.

The ASR argument is a strong reason to take blades for any class. However, if you have better styles to use (CD styles, CS styles, etc depending class/spec), it can be frustrating wasting all that time trying to land a 2-part chain against a evading/parrying/blocking enemy just so you can get the ASR and move on. If you have nothing better to use anyway then sure it's free and why not.
But for many classes with access to CD, going above composite weapon spec just to get ASR wastes a lot of spec points you could use elsewhere, especially as you get higher RR. Is it worth it? Again, depends on class/spec/setup/opponent.

With regards to DoT procs, they have variance per tick but very consistently do 170-180 dmg per 20 seconds. This can be thought of as a 9.0 DPS damage add that is not affected by enemy defenses but has a 10% to get resisted. Maybe that doesnt sound like a lot but thats a 12-15% DPS gain per stack for most ppl. Get 2 going simultaneously and thats a ~18dps DA / 24-30% DPS gain (hypothetically). I find them particularly effective against defensive opponents since unlike a real DA, evade/parry/block doesn't affect DoTs.

If you are taking a spec that uses 39+ weapon & doesn't rely primarily on CD styles & you're fighting primarily assassins, then yes, blades wins hands down. If you want to use CD styles primarily and want to milk every spec point out of a Wyrd spec and can tolerate doing 5-15% less damage to assassins, you can be that one guy rocking thrusters. Race, weapon, and proc choices can widen or narrow that gap.

TL;DR: there's probably a reason everyone is blades.

~Pollinator

you are right 39 blade can be a waste of points for some classes, but we are talking about rangers here who do not spec much into cd.... so 39 blades is the way to go
btw dmg add can not be resisted

i always tend to say test it yourself, may thrust spec works for you but well i doubt it
Fri 8 May 2020 8:34 AM by Saroi
Tupacalipse wrote:
Fri 8 May 2020 4:47 AM
The ASR argument is a strong reason to take blades for any class. However, if you have better styles to use (CD styles, CS styles, etc depending class/spec), it can be frustrating wasting all that time trying to land a 2-part chain against a evading/parrying/blocking enemy just so you can get the ASR and move on. If you have nothing better to use anyway then sure it's free and why not.
But for many classes with access to CD, going above composite weapon spec just to get ASR wastes a lot of spec points you could use elsewhere, especially as you get higher RR. Is it worth it? Again, depends on class/spec/setup/opponent.

If you are taking a spec that uses 39+ weapon & doesn't rely primarily on CD styles & you're fighting primarily assassins, then yes, blades wins hands down. If you want to use CD styles primarily and want to milk every spec point out of a Wyrd spec and can tolerate doing 5-15% less damage to assassins, you can be that one guy rocking thrusters. Race, weapon, and proc choices can widen or narrow that gap.

TL;DR: there's probably a reason everyone is blades.

~Pollinator

No Ranger/NS uses CD Styles on this server except for the Stun. CD also as a 2 part anytime style. So it goes to the same argument you made about the ASR from Blades. Atleast Blade 2 part has an effect with ASR and both Blade styles have a better defense bonus than the CD. CD only has 0.1 Growth Rate more which is not noticable compared to the other effects.

The Sidechain is also pretty useless because both NS/Ranger did not get the growth Rate increase. Only BM has that. For example Supernova, level 50 3rd of Chain has 0,9 Growth Rate on NS/Ranger and 1.25 for BM.

There is absolutely no point in using CD Styles over Blade styles as NS/Ranger. NS have CS and well Rangers only have the option of Blade.
Fri 8 May 2020 1:15 PM by imweasel
So with the bow changes in, I decided to level my thid luri ranger and try a pure bow spec build (already have a Shar melee).

Currently I am thinking of this.

37 Stealth
45 Bow
48 PF
Rest into melee (probably CD)

So do folks think a pure bow spec can be viable? Or wishful thinking?
Fri 8 May 2020 1:20 PM by dbeattie71
imweasel wrote:
Fri 8 May 2020 1:15 PM
So with the bow changes in, I decided to level my thid luri ranger and try a pure bow spec build (already have a Shar melee).

Currently I am thinking of this.

37 Stealth
45 Bow
48 PF
Rest into melee (probably CD)

So do folks think a pure bow spec can be viable? Or wishful thinking?

My luri ranger is 48pf 50bow 34st.
Fri 8 May 2020 1:21 PM by imweasel
dbeattie71 wrote:
Fri 8 May 2020 1:20 PM
imweasel wrote:
Fri 8 May 2020 1:15 PM
So with the bow changes in, I decided to level my thid luri ranger and try a pure bow spec build (already have a Shar melee).

Currently I am thinking of this.

37 Stealth
45 Bow
48 PF
Rest into melee (probably CD)

So do folks think a pure bow spec can be viable? Or wishful thinking?

My luri ranger is 48pf 50bow 34st.

How is that working in rvr?
Fri 8 May 2020 1:28 PM by dbeattie71
imweasel wrote:
Fri 8 May 2020 1:21 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Fri 8 May 2020 1:20 PM
imweasel wrote:
Fri 8 May 2020 1:15 PM
So with the bow changes in, I decided to level my thid luri ranger and try a pure bow spec build (already have a Shar melee).

Currently I am thinking of this.

37 Stealth
45 Bow
48 PF
Rest into melee (probably CD)

So do folks think a pure bow spec can be viable? Or wishful thinking?

My luri ranger is 48pf 50bow 34st.

How is that working in rvr?

Really well, don’t get caught on the ground by a sneak though lol. Honestly, it’s silly for rvr groups not to have an archer now. Rapid 2 can lock down a few casters that would normally free nuke from a tower. Fight at bolg yesterday was crazy. I think I vollyed arrows for 20 mins and went through 1k arrows.

I know that changes didn’t effect volley damage but I was this spec before the changes. The difference was there were more rangers, I guess, that ground assist easy other.
Fri 8 May 2020 2:14 PM by Tupacalipse
Saroi wrote:
Fri 8 May 2020 8:34 AM
Tupacalipse wrote:
Fri 8 May 2020 4:47 AM
The ASR argument is a strong reason to take blades for any class. However, if you have better styles to use (CD styles, CS styles, etc depending class/spec), it can be frustrating wasting all that time trying to land a 2-part chain against a evading/parrying/blocking enemy just so you can get the ASR and move on. If you have nothing better to use anyway then sure it's free and why not.
But for many classes with access to CD, going above composite weapon spec just to get ASR wastes a lot of spec points you could use elsewhere, especially as you get higher RR. Is it worth it? Again, depends on class/spec/setup/opponent.

If you are taking a spec that uses 39+ weapon & doesn't rely primarily on CD styles & you're fighting primarily assassins, then yes, blades wins hands down. If you want to use CD styles primarily and want to milk every spec point out of a Wyrd spec and can tolerate doing 5-15% less damage to assassins, you can be that one guy rocking thrusters. Race, weapon, and proc choices can widen or narrow that gap.

TL;DR: there's probably a reason everyone is blades.

~Pollinator

No Ranger/NS uses CD Styles on this server except for the Stun. CD also as a 2 part anytime style. So it goes to the same argument you made about the ASR from Blades. Atleast Blade 2 part has an effect with ASR and both Blade styles have a better defense bonus than the CD. CD only has 0.1 Growth Rate more which is not noticable compared to the other effects.

The Sidechain is also pretty useless because both NS/Ranger did not get the growth Rate increase. Only BM has that. For example Supernova, level 50 3rd of Chain has 0,9 Growth Rate on NS/Ranger and 1.25 for BM.

There is absolutely no point in using CD Styles over Blade styles as NS/Ranger. NS have CS and well Rangers only have the option of Blade.


I disagree that theres no point for a CD spec...

The reason no ranger uses CD styles is because everyone wants that 39 blades ASR and then there aren't enough points left to make CD styles worth using over blades.

Some paper daoc theorycrafting maths...

Let's take two specs for comparison of high blades vs high CD:
*Base DPS caps at composite 52
*Each pt in weapon line above composite 52 adds about 0.5% damage / point
*Defense penetration from spec caps at composite 52
*Offhand swing rate increases 0.86% per spec pt CD
*Assume offhand base damage contributes about 35% extra damage when it swings, per styled hit (should be around there or a bit higher for a 4.X/2.X setup).
--> therefore each point in CD adds 35% * 0.86% = +0.3% dmg/pt CD [on average, over time]

50 Blades / 25 CD / 40 PF / 33 stealth / 12 archery
-Access to ASR, uses Blades styles

34 Weapon / 44 CD / 40 PF / 33 stealth / 12 archery
-No ASR
-3% less damage on styled attacks from lower primary weapon spec (0.5% x 6), but 19 higher CD = 5.7% DPS gain from offhand swings (not counting procs)
-Slightly higher CD GR's
-Significantly higher GR's if you master side style
-Net improvement of at least 2.7% DPS, probably closer to 4-5% with the above soft considerations (offhand procs, better CD GRs, side styling,etc).

Most consider the 3-4% DPS loss and lower offhand proc rate worth the 30% ASR.
There are obviously lots of ranger specs, some with higher PF/lower CD etc -- you can do the math with them all and it should work out similarly that (when possible), advanced weapon line Wyrd specs nets more DPS. The problem rangers face is having to spread their points so thinly that it's not always possible to get both composite weapon and CD high enough to make the styles worth using.
Sat 9 May 2020 2:30 AM by daytonchambers
dbeattie71 wrote:
Fri 8 May 2020 1:28 PM
imweasel wrote:
Fri 8 May 2020 1:21 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Fri 8 May 2020 1:20 PM
My luri ranger is 48pf 50bow 34st.

How is that working in rvr?

Really well, don’t get caught on the ground by a sneak though lol. Honestly, it’s silly for rvr groups not to have an archer now. Rapid 2 can lock down a few casters that would normally free nuke from a tower. Fight at bolg yesterday was crazy. I think I vollyed arrows for 20 mins and went through 1k arrows.

I know that changes didn’t effect volley damage but I was this spec before the changes. The difference was there were more rangers, I guess, that ground assist easy other.


The biggest problem with a heavy shooters build is that you're kind of trapped in a single location and can't roam around, be it humping a tower humping a keep humping a relic gate etc etc.

That's because if you happen to encounter an enemy sneak in open field with that spec you may as well just sit down cause you're a dead man.
Sat 9 May 2020 5:10 AM by dbeattie71
daytonchambers wrote:
Sat 9 May 2020 2:30 AM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Fri 8 May 2020 1:28 PM
imweasel wrote:
Fri 8 May 2020 1:21 PM
How is that working in rvr?

Really well, don’t get caught on the ground by a sneak though lol. Honestly, it’s silly for rvr groups not to have an archer now. Rapid 2 can lock down a few casters that would normally free nuke from a tower. Fight at bolg yesterday was crazy. I think I vollyed arrows for 20 mins and went through 1k arrows.

I know that changes didn’t effect volley damage but I was this spec before the changes. The difference was there were more rangers, I guess, that ground assist easy other.


The biggest problem with a heavy shooters build is that you're kind of trapped in a single location and can't roam around, be it humping a tower humping a keep humping a relic gate etc etc.

That's because if you happen to encounter an enemy sneak in open field with that spec you may as well just sit down cause you're a dead man.

Yeah, if I feel the need, I log melee ranger and club seals
Sat 9 May 2020 6:22 AM by Anelyn77
I sorta like it like now with the archery buff. You are a menace at range, and nobody interesting up close. No more stealthed BM / Merc / Zerk like with IP to screw up honest working stealthers (pun intented), but a very dangerous array of missiles for any caster / support. I'd take it!

Logged my huntress 4l2 earlier tonight to check the new archery, 50 archery spec, 40 BC with moarcane 7 and aug dex 5 (354 smth dex self buffed), hit a wizard for 837 with CS, not really impressed, was expecting more, like 1k-ish. So still room for improvement.

PS: had a RR6 scout CS my necro pet self buffed with all types of arrows, 470 CS was highest, nothing really changed in this regard (pet has 2.4k hp self buffed no outside buffs) so the hierarchy didn't turn upside down tehehe <3

Right as for spec, my ranger will be 50 archery, 40 PF, 35 stealth, 25 blade or pierce (only for side snare pmuch). Why? Because while is tempting to go 45 archery and improve melee some more, when they add the last rank of CS at 50 archery with the NS / disease / preventflight / 200DD proc I don't wanna respec again xD

<o/
Sat 9 May 2020 8:38 AM by Noashakra
don't blieve they will add the proc. The dmg are good enough.
Now it's time to do somthing against engage/bloc/parry/evade vs ranged weapons
Sat 9 May 2020 10:32 AM by Saroi
Tupacalipse wrote:
Fri 8 May 2020 2:14 PM
Saroi wrote:
Fri 8 May 2020 8:34 AM
Tupacalipse wrote:
Fri 8 May 2020 4:47 AM
The ASR argument is a strong reason to take blades for any class. However, if you have better styles to use (CD styles, CS styles, etc depending class/spec), it can be frustrating wasting all that time trying to land a 2-part chain against a evading/parrying/blocking enemy just so you can get the ASR and move on. If you have nothing better to use anyway then sure it's free and why not.
But for many classes with access to CD, going above composite weapon spec just to get ASR wastes a lot of spec points you could use elsewhere, especially as you get higher RR. Is it worth it? Again, depends on class/spec/setup/opponent.

If you are taking a spec that uses 39+ weapon & doesn't rely primarily on CD styles & you're fighting primarily assassins, then yes, blades wins hands down. If you want to use CD styles primarily and want to milk every spec point out of a Wyrd spec and can tolerate doing 5-15% less damage to assassins, you can be that one guy rocking thrusters. Race, weapon, and proc choices can widen or narrow that gap.

TL;DR: there's probably a reason everyone is blades.

~Pollinator

No Ranger/NS uses CD Styles on this server except for the Stun. CD also as a 2 part anytime style. So it goes to the same argument you made about the ASR from Blades. Atleast Blade 2 part has an effect with ASR and both Blade styles have a better defense bonus than the CD. CD only has 0.1 Growth Rate more which is not noticable compared to the other effects.

The Sidechain is also pretty useless because both NS/Ranger did not get the growth Rate increase. Only BM has that. For example Supernova, level 50 3rd of Chain has 0,9 Growth Rate on NS/Ranger and 1.25 for BM.

There is absolutely no point in using CD Styles over Blade styles as NS/Ranger. NS have CS and well Rangers only have the option of Blade.


I disagree that theres no point for a CD spec...

The reason no ranger uses CD styles is because everyone wants that 39 blades ASR and then there aren't enough points left to make CD styles worth using over blades.

Some paper daoc theorycrafting maths...

Let's take two specs for comparison of high blades vs high CD:
*Base DPS caps at composite 52
*Each pt in weapon line above composite 52 adds about 0.5% damage / point
*Defense penetration from spec caps at composite 52
*Offhand swing rate increases 0.86% per spec pt CD
*Assume offhand base damage contributes about 35% extra damage when it swings, per styled hit (should be around there or a bit higher for a 4.X/2.X setup).
--> therefore each point in CD adds 35% * 0.86% = +0.3% dmg/pt CD [on average, over time]

50 Blades / 25 CD / 40 PF / 33 stealth / 12 archery
-Access to ASR, uses Blades styles

34 Weapon / 44 CD / 40 PF / 33 stealth / 12 archery
-No ASR
-3% less damage on styled attacks from lower primary weapon spec (0.5% x 6), but 19 higher CD = 5.7% DPS gain from offhand swings (not counting procs)
-Slightly higher CD GR's
-Significantly higher GR's if you master side style
-Net improvement of at least 2.7% DPS, probably closer to 4-5% with the above soft considerations (offhand procs, better CD GRs, side styling,etc).

Most consider the 3-4% DPS loss and lower offhand proc rate worth the 30% ASR.
There are obviously lots of ranger specs, some with higher PF/lower CD etc -- you can do the math with them all and it should work out similarly that (when possible), advanced weapon line Wyrd specs nets more DPS. The problem rangers face is having to spread their points so thinly that it's not always possible to get both composite weapon and CD high enough to make the styles worth using.

You wrote about paper daoc. All sounds good on Paper.

About Side chain: If you are talking about walkthrough etc. to land other attacks, you would have to compare the damage with the Backstyle from Blades which has the highest GR. Can't compare reactional CD styles with Anytimer from Blades. In your first spec you have 50 Blades, then the 2 part backchain does more damage. So here you have more Mainhand/Styledamage compared to CD.

Blade Back: 0.77 Growth, Followup: 0.99 Growth
CD Side: 0.68 Growth, Followup: 0.88 Growth

Also 3part Evadechain of Blades have a higher GR than 3part Evadechain of CD. So the Statement about significantly higher GR(Side style) is not true.

I would agree with you if Hib had 0,77/1.00/1.25 on the Sidechain like BM does. I have tested higher CD myself and came to the conclusion it is not worth it. The fact that nobody goes high CD also shows other have tried it and came to the same conclusion. Blade isn't all about the ASR style, it is simply because CD doesn't offer any shown higher damage, especially consistant damage.
Sun 10 May 2020 1:26 PM by inoeth
Saroi wrote:
Sat 9 May 2020 10:32 AM
Tupacalipse wrote:
Fri 8 May 2020 2:14 PM
Saroi wrote:
Fri 8 May 2020 8:34 AM
No Ranger/NS uses CD Styles on this server except for the Stun. CD also as a 2 part anytime style. So it goes to the same argument you made about the ASR from Blades. Atleast Blade 2 part has an effect with ASR and both Blade styles have a better defense bonus than the CD. CD only has 0.1 Growth Rate more which is not noticable compared to the other effects.

The Sidechain is also pretty useless because both NS/Ranger did not get the growth Rate increase. Only BM has that. For example Supernova, level 50 3rd of Chain has 0,9 Growth Rate on NS/Ranger and 1.25 for BM.

There is absolutely no point in using CD Styles over Blade styles as NS/Ranger. NS have CS and well Rangers only have the option of Blade.


I disagree that theres no point for a CD spec...

The reason no ranger uses CD styles is because everyone wants that 39 blades ASR and then there aren't enough points left to make CD styles worth using over blades.

Some paper daoc theorycrafting maths...

Let's take two specs for comparison of high blades vs high CD:
*Base DPS caps at composite 52
*Each pt in weapon line above composite 52 adds about 0.5% damage / point
*Defense penetration from spec caps at composite 52
*Offhand swing rate increases 0.86% per spec pt CD
*Assume offhand base damage contributes about 35% extra damage when it swings, per styled hit (should be around there or a bit higher for a 4.X/2.X setup).
--> therefore each point in CD adds 35% * 0.86% = +0.3% dmg/pt CD [on average, over time]

50 Blades / 25 CD / 40 PF / 33 stealth / 12 archery
-Access to ASR, uses Blades styles

34 Weapon / 44 CD / 40 PF / 33 stealth / 12 archery
-No ASR
-3% less damage on styled attacks from lower primary weapon spec (0.5% x 6), but 19 higher CD = 5.7% DPS gain from offhand swings (not counting procs)
-Slightly higher CD GR's
-Significantly higher GR's if you master side style
-Net improvement of at least 2.7% DPS, probably closer to 4-5% with the above soft considerations (offhand procs, better CD GRs, side styling,etc).

Most consider the 3-4% DPS loss and lower offhand proc rate worth the 30% ASR.
There are obviously lots of ranger specs, some with higher PF/lower CD etc -- you can do the math with them all and it should work out similarly that (when possible), advanced weapon line Wyrd specs nets more DPS. The problem rangers face is having to spread their points so thinly that it's not always possible to get both composite weapon and CD high enough to make the styles worth using.

You wrote about paper daoc. All sounds good on Paper.

About Side chain: If you are talking about walkthrough etc. to land other attacks, you would have to compare the damage with the Backstyle from Blades which has the highest GR. Can't compare reactional CD styles with Anytimer from Blades. In your first spec you have 50 Blades, then the 2 part backchain does more damage. So here you have more Mainhand/Styledamage compared to CD.

Blade Back: 0.77 Growth, Followup: 0.99 Growth
CD Side: 0.68 Growth, Followup: 0.88 Growth

Also 3part Evadechain of Blades have a higher GR than 3part Evadechain of CD. So the Statement about significantly higher GR(Side style) is not true.

I would agree with you if Hib had 0,77/1.00/1.25 on the Sidechain like BM does. I have tested higher CD myself and came to the conclusion it is not worth it. The fact that nobody goes high CD also shows other have tried it and came to the same conclusion. Blade isn't all about the ASR style, it is simply because CD doesn't offer any shown higher damage, especially consistant damage.

if we put aside that its very hard to get off a 3 part chain in the first place, you have to take a closer look into the style effects. its true blades has higher GR but CD chain offers a 25 bleed which does higher dmg compared to blades.

actually this discussion led me to respec my ranger to:
44CD
39blade
35st
31pf
17bow

and well .... im ripping, feels so much smoother now, almost like playing a SB but with better dmg
very high rr assassins are still hard but for same rr assasins i dont even need any active ra most time
Sun 10 May 2020 2:16 PM by daytonchambers
inoeth wrote:
Sun 10 May 2020 1:26 PM
actually this discussion led me to respec my ranger to:
44CD
39blade
35st
31pf
17bow

and well .... im ripping, feels so much smoother now, almost like playing a SB but with better dmg
very high rr assassins are still hard but for same rr assasins i dont even need any active ra most time


Why 17 bow with the scraps? could have pushed CD up another lv to 45 and ended up with 45cd, 39blade, 35stealth, 31pf, 15bow. With 0pts remaining =D

https://playphoenix.online/charplan/?class=Ranger&level=50&realmRank=30&view=skills&s22=31&s31=35&s51=45&s58=15&s78=39
Sun 10 May 2020 2:36 PM by inoeth
daytonchambers wrote:
Sun 10 May 2020 2:16 PM
inoeth wrote:
Sun 10 May 2020 1:26 PM
actually this discussion led me to respec my ranger to:
44CD
39blade
35st
31pf
17bow

and well .... im ripping, feels so much smoother now, almost like playing a SB but with better dmg
very high rr assassins are still hard but for same rr assasins i dont even need any active ra most time


Why 17 bow with the scraps? could have pushed CD up another lv to 45 and ended up with 45cd, 39blade, 35stealth, 31pf, 15bow. With 0pts remaining =D

https://playphoenix.online/charplan/?class=Ranger&level=50&realmRank=30&view=skills&s22=31&s31=35&s51=45&s58=15&s78=39

hm you have a point there^^
Mon 11 May 2020 6:17 AM by Anelyn77
Noashakra wrote:
Sat 9 May 2020 8:38 AM
don't blieve they will add the proc. The dmg are good enough.
Now it's time to do somthing against engage/bloc/parry/evade vs ranged weapons

They already "slightly" nerfed archery already. So yes, give us the proc, give us snare / dots like on live, otherwise we will end up having to spec 50 bow to get 100 more dmg on CS and 50 on normal shots soon, which means everyone will go back to melee rangers / hunters to make sins rejoice.

I mean let's face it archery is a disappointment as it is atm. Only spec line where you get to 50 and only have 2 skills on your action bar (3rd being your bow from inv). Give us a pinning shot - 99% snare for 10s, give us multishot (put a CD on it like 10-15s), give us a true rapid fire that fires 10 arrows at your target in like 2 seconds with same penalty of current RF (50% dmg of normal arrows). Give us a silencing shot for 3-5s with 20s cd instead of NS / disease procs.

The server continues to move far away from classic daoc, and it won't go near live, so why not at least make something good out of it?

Cheers <3
Mon 11 May 2020 6:47 AM by inoeth
Anelyn77 wrote:
Mon 11 May 2020 6:17 AM
Noashakra wrote:
Sat 9 May 2020 8:38 AM
don't blieve they will add the proc. The dmg are good enough.
Now it's time to do somthing against engage/bloc/parry/evade vs ranged weapons

They already "slightly" nerfed archery already. So yes, give us the proc, give us snare / dots like on live, otherwise we will end up having to spec 50 bow to get 100 more dmg on CS and 50 on normal shots soon, which means everyone will go back to melee rangers / hunters to make sins rejoice.

I mean let's face it archery is a disappointment as it is atm. Only spec line where you get to 50 and only have 2 skills on your action bar (3rd being your bow from inv). Give us a pinning shot - 99% snare for 10s, give us multishot (put a CD on it like 10-15s), give us a true rapid fire that fires 10 arrows at your target in like 2 seconds with same penalty of current RF (50% dmg of normal arrows). Give us a silencing shot for 3-5s with 20s cd instead of NS / disease procs.

The server continues to move far away from classic daoc, and it won't go near live, so why not at least make something good out of it?

Cheers <3

"disappointment" lul! fireing for 400 normal and 900+ crit very disappointing...
dude in what world do you live in?
Mon 11 May 2020 6:58 AM by Anelyn77
inoeth wrote:
Mon 11 May 2020 6:47 AM
Anelyn77 wrote:
Mon 11 May 2020 6:17 AM
Noashakra wrote:
Sat 9 May 2020 8:38 AM
don't blieve they will add the proc. The dmg are good enough.
Now it's time to do somthing against engage/bloc/parry/evade vs ranged weapons

They already "slightly" nerfed archery already. So yes, give us the proc, give us snare / dots like on live, otherwise we will end up having to spec 50 bow to get 100 more dmg on CS and 50 on normal shots soon, which means everyone will go back to melee rangers / hunters to make sins rejoice.

I mean let's face it archery is a disappointment as it is atm. Only spec line where you get to 50 and only have 2 skills on your action bar (3rd being your bow from inv). Give us a pinning shot - 99% snare for 10s, give us multishot (put a CD on it like 10-15s), give us a true rapid fire that fires 10 arrows at your target in like 2 seconds with same penalty of current RF (50% dmg of normal arrows). Give us a silencing shot for 3-5s with 20s cd instead of NS / disease procs.

The server continues to move far away from classic daoc, and it won't go near live, so why not at least make something good out of it?

Cheers <3

"disappointment" lul! fireing for 400 normal and 900+ crit very disappointing...
dude in what world do you live in?

I was talking about something else, yet you turned it into dmg numbers. So 400 and 900 is too high, sure, what would you want those numbers to be 200 and 450? 300 and 600? Sure, just give more shots to archers if you tone damage down further, give a pinning shot at 42 bow so that melee archers can't get it, give a dot with good delve at 47 bow etc.
Mon 11 May 2020 8:35 AM by Noashakra
I agree it's a super boring spec...
Mon 11 May 2020 8:45 AM by inoeth
Anelyn77 wrote:
Mon 11 May 2020 6:58 AM
inoeth wrote:
Mon 11 May 2020 6:47 AM
Anelyn77 wrote:
Mon 11 May 2020 6:17 AM
They already "slightly" nerfed archery already. So yes, give us the proc, give us snare / dots like on live, otherwise we will end up having to spec 50 bow to get 100 more dmg on CS and 50 on normal shots soon, which means everyone will go back to melee rangers / hunters to make sins rejoice.

I mean let's face it archery is a disappointment as it is atm. Only spec line where you get to 50 and only have 2 skills on your action bar (3rd being your bow from inv). Give us a pinning shot - 99% snare for 10s, give us multishot (put a CD on it like 10-15s), give us a true rapid fire that fires 10 arrows at your target in like 2 seconds with same penalty of current RF (50% dmg of normal arrows). Give us a silencing shot for 3-5s with 20s cd instead of NS / disease procs.

The server continues to move far away from classic daoc, and it won't go near live, so why not at least make something good out of it?

Cheers <3

"disappointment" lul! fireing for 400 normal and 900+ crit very disappointing...
dude in what world do you live in?

I was talking about something else, yet you turned it into dmg numbers. So 400 and 900 is too high, sure, what would you want those numbers to be 200 and 450? 300 and 600? Sure, just give more shots to archers if you tone damage down further, give a pinning shot at 42 bow so that melee archers can't get it, give a dot with good delve at 47 bow etc.

300 600 sounds reasonable tbh for full arching spec
sure shot
camuflage

what you aum for is something similar to the casting archer thing on live but that would be much too strong. we dont have the tool here for counters like arrogance or zephyr, phase shift etc.
classic archers have been about hybrid spec and imo we should keep it that way.
ranged dmg dealer with stealth like it is now is over the top.
it was ok before for hunters and rangers only scouts have been very weak.
Mon 11 May 2020 8:58 AM by Anelyn77
I presume we're talking about those numbers for base buffs from combi (like a scout would have) and no other RA's augmenting the dmg (keep in mind that high RR's will also further increase the dmg since there is no cap on it now anymore).

Which would mean hunters and rangers who can cap d/q buffs, grab aug dex 5+, moarchery / FE etc, will still hit close to 400 on normal arrow and 800 on CS from RR6 upwards, probably peaking 500 - 1k range at RR10+.

So a full sniper spec will still hit very hard at high RR's, you'd only see lower dmg from low RR's and those who go 40-45 archery instead of 50. Camo is useless on phoenix especially with the new stealth nerf, as you have no idea if there's someone else around or not lol. Sure shot was the one that can't be rupted dealing normal dmg no? Sure that will mainly help vs other archers or casters, not so much vs melee unless they're like 10-20% hp when they get to you.

Regarding the spec I'd probably lean toward 50 archery, 35 sth, 40 PF rest in blades or pierce for utility (only 40 PF so that I can cap it with MoArcane and also get better value out of all combi buffs - the ones which I don't have in PF, as with 48 PF you only need MoArc 2 to cap d/q, but combi buffs still have plenty room to grow).
Mon 11 May 2020 9:29 AM by inoeth
afaik there is a cap, gruenes said the cap is untouched they just adjusted the scaling from spec.
ofc im talking about 300 600 dmg for high RR, lowers can be around 250 500 so basicly revert the recent archer change^^

instead give the tools that were initially there like, again, sure shot, camuflage and some kind of higher range stealth detection (mos or true sight)
Mon 11 May 2020 11:49 AM by Anelyn77
inoeth wrote:
Mon 11 May 2020 9:29 AM
afaik there is a cap, gruenes said the cap is untouched they just adjusted the scaling from spec.
ofc im talking about 300 600 dmg for high RR, lowers can be around 250 500 so basicly revert the recent archer change^^

instead give the tools that were initially there like, again, sure shot, camuflage and some kind of higher range stealth detection (mos or true sight)

Aren't you afraid that the higher stealth detection will further encourage stealth hunting? Small or even stealth zergs could actively do only that if you can see them from 1k range at mach 5?

Let's wait and see how this whole stealth nerf works out in next couple days and where the devs wanna go from there
Mon 11 May 2020 11:57 AM by inoeth
Anelyn77 wrote:
Mon 11 May 2020 11:49 AM
inoeth wrote:
Mon 11 May 2020 9:29 AM
afaik there is a cap, gruenes said the cap is untouched they just adjusted the scaling from spec.
ofc im talking about 300 600 dmg for high RR, lowers can be around 250 500 so basicly revert the recent archer change^^

instead give the tools that were initially there like, again, sure shot, camuflage and some kind of higher range stealth detection (mos or true sight)

Aren't you afraid that the higher stealth detection will further encourage stealth hunting? Small or even stealth zergs could actively do only that if you can see them from 1k range at mach 5?

Let's wait and see how this whole stealth nerf works out in next couple days and where the devs wanna go from there

true sight would be an active ra with obvious cool down..
mos was never 1k
mos was reduced significantly by speed
for increased detection camuflage is needed as counter
Fri 15 May 2020 7:57 PM by gotwqqd
What’s the new bow oriented spec being used now?
Fri 15 May 2020 8:49 PM by Cadebrennus
I can see PF actually being useful now with a Sniper build, if only to push the Dex/Qui a bit higher than everyone else that's pot buffed. That being said I think Scouts should have something to compare to it.
Fri 15 May 2020 9:21 PM by imweasel
gotwqqd wrote:
Fri 15 May 2020 7:57 PM
What’s the new bow oriented spec being used now?

I think things are still being worked out, but:

Minimum of 40 Bow
Minimum 40 PF
Comp 50 stealth
Rest CD

I'm trying a luri ranger. Pure bow spec.

45 bow
48 PF
Comp 50 stealth
Rest CD

I'm really handicapped in melee. Probably going to drop pf to 40 and bring up CD.
Fri 15 May 2020 10:17 PM by Siouxsie
Thanks, rangers for destroying any chance we had at decent archery damage.
70 rangers logged on.. all cookie cutter bow spec ones.

I really had my hopes up that archery would stay buffed but you had to ruin things with your assisted volleys and other BS nonsense camping the keeps.

Now you've ruined it for all us archers.
Fri 15 May 2020 10:52 PM by Quik
Siouxsie wrote:
Fri 15 May 2020 10:17 PM
Thanks, rangers for destroying any chance we had at decent archery damage.
70 rangers logged on.. all cookie cutter bow spec ones.

I really had my hopes up that archery would stay buffed but you had to ruin things with your assisted volleys and other BS nonsense camping the keeps.

Now you've ruined it for all us archers.

Isn't this typical for FOTM classes? A class gets a needed buff and they go a little overboard so suddenly half the server jumps on the bandwagon because they want easy kills?

They'll nerf it back down and all these bandwagon jumpers will complain that they wasted their time for nothing!!! LOL
Fri 15 May 2020 11:04 PM by gotwqqd
Cadebrennus wrote:
Fri 15 May 2020 8:49 PM
I can see PF actually being useful now with a Sniper build, if only to push the Dex/Qui a bit higher than everyone else that's pot buffed. That being said I think Scouts should have something to compare to it.

So sniper spec
46 pf
Or
48 for highest dex/quick
Sun 17 May 2020 1:03 AM by watbrif
To build on another thread in the forum: are there any rangers out there who completely disregard stealth (apart from speccing up to safe fall) for a bg play style? This would of course eliminate your role as a scout, but I suppose this would allow you to interrupt, deal damage and not be completely useless when peeling and being forced into melee. Do people spec like that?
Sun 17 May 2020 6:03 AM by Cadebrennus
watbrif wrote:
Sun 17 May 2020 1:03 AM
To build on another thread in the forum: are there any rangers out there who completely disregard stealth (apart from speccing up to safe fall) for a bg play style? This would of course eliminate your role as a scout, but I suppose this would allow you to interrupt, deal damage and not be completely useless when peeling and being forced into melee. Do people spec like that?

Visi Ranger spec. I've been doing it since 2013, and yes it works very well. I can still hide from Visi characters and groups no problem, and don't bother to hide from other Stealthers since they're going to find you regardless of Stealth spec.
Sun 17 May 2020 12:36 PM by inoeth
watbrif wrote:
Sun 17 May 2020 1:03 AM
To build on another thread in the forum: are there any rangers out there who completely disregard stealth (apart from speccing up to safe fall) for a bg play style? This would of course eliminate your role as a scout, but I suppose this would allow you to interrupt, deal damage and not be completely useless when peeling and being forced into melee. Do people spec like that?

nobody does that even though there is one guy that constantly claims to do so, hes not even playing here.
the good thing as a ranger is you can have both ranged and melee, still in both you are much weaker than the classes who normally have the spot in grp.
sure the 2300 locs range rupt is nice but besides that there is not much utility for a ranger in grp.

if you have a nice guild and if you are a dedicated player it might work for medium difficulty rvr, in 8v8 you will easily be outplayed imo. just 55% det, no shield, low hp, lower dmg compared to any other hib melee, no synergies with other classes.
Sun 17 May 2020 5:05 PM by imweasel
Cadebrennus wrote:
Sun 17 May 2020 6:03 AM
watbrif wrote:
Sun 17 May 2020 1:03 AM
To build on another thread in the forum: are there any rangers out there who completely disregard stealth (apart from speccing up to safe fall) for a bg play style? This would of course eliminate your role as a scout, but I suppose this would allow you to interrupt, deal damage and not be completely useless when peeling and being forced into melee. Do people spec like that?

Visi Ranger spec. I've been doing it since 2013, and yes it works very well. I can still hide from Visi characters and groups no problem, and don't bother to hide from other Stealthers since they're going to find you regardless of Stealth spec.

What is a visi ranger spec?
Sun 17 May 2020 5:50 PM by Cadebrennus
imweasel wrote:
Sun 17 May 2020 5:05 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Sun 17 May 2020 6:03 AM
watbrif wrote:
Sun 17 May 2020 1:03 AM
To build on another thread in the forum: are there any rangers out there who completely disregard stealth (apart from speccing up to safe fall) for a bg play style? This would of course eliminate your role as a scout, but I suppose this would allow you to interrupt, deal damage and not be completely useless when peeling and being forced into melee. Do people spec like that?

Visi Ranger spec. I've been doing it since 2013, and yes it works very well. I can still hide from Visi characters and groups no problem, and don't bother to hide from other Stealthers since they're going to find you regardless of Stealth spec.

What is a visi ranger spec?

The one I've run with and love so far is 16 stealth, 35 bow, 50CD, 39 Blades, and 31 PF. This works best if you're in a regular Visi group, which means you regularly get Druid buffs, and use a DA charge when sniping. Use 35 bow for rapid fire.

Another spec if you want high PF is 10 stealth, 27 bow, 18 CD, 50 Blades, and 48 PF. I didn't like this spec as much so I went with the prior spec mentioned. I just didn't feel there was enough difference in damage between pot buffs and 21 PF vs 48 PF. I did feel (and test and spreadsheet) the difference between 50 weapon/18 CD and 50 CD/composite weapon. I recommend higher CD even at the expense of lower PF. PF just isn't worth the spec points here, Sniper spec excepted (who need to squeeze out every last bit of Dex/Qui, especially after the 2x nerfs which followed the single buff to Archery).

Note: 35 Bow is more Visi group friendly since you can interrupt enemy healers and casters. See the video here (from Live)

https://youtu.be/TGsUopwl-lY

(Video is only 2.5 minutes long, not 14 minutes long.)
Sun 17 May 2020 7:30 PM by inoeth
tell us more about live servers lul
Mon 18 May 2020 5:55 AM by Cadebrennus
inoeth wrote:
Sun 17 May 2020 7:30 PM
tell us more about live servers lul

Tell us more about your obvious obsession with me lul
Mon 18 May 2020 6:14 AM by inoeth
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 18 May 2020 5:55 AM
inoeth wrote:
Sun 17 May 2020 7:30 PM
tell us more about live servers lul

Tell us more about your obvious obsession with me lul

no, im not obsessed with you its just you post so much bullshit in the threads im reading and writing in.
why are you so obsessed with telling ppl bullshit and comparing apples with pears?

btw i really try hard to not answer you anymore, would be great if you just did the same
Mon 18 May 2020 1:24 PM by Cadebrennus
inoeth wrote:
Mon 18 May 2020 6:14 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 18 May 2020 5:55 AM
inoeth wrote:
Sun 17 May 2020 7:30 PM
tell us more about live servers lul

Tell us more about your obvious obsession with me lul

no, im not obsessed with you its just you post so much bullshit in the threads im reading and writing in.
why are you so obsessed with telling ppl bullshit and comparing apples with pears?

btw i really try hard to not answer you anymore, would be great if you just did the same

So when I post something, say where the video is, you still say I'm saying some bullshit? Tell me and the world what exactly I said that was wrong in my post.

Sorry dude, you can't take the high ground all of a sudden when you've been operating from the gutter the whole time.
Mon 18 May 2020 1:39 PM by inoeth
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 18 May 2020 1:24 PM
inoeth wrote:
Mon 18 May 2020 6:14 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 18 May 2020 5:55 AM
Tell us more about your obvious obsession with me lul

no, im not obsessed with you its just you post so much bullshit in the threads im reading and writing in.
why are you so obsessed with telling ppl bullshit and comparing apples with pears?

btw i really try hard to not answer you anymore, would be great if you just did the same

So when I post something, say where the video is, you still say I'm saying some bullshit? Tell me and the world what exactly I said that was wrong in my post.

Sorry dude, you can't take the high ground all of a sudden when you've been operating from the gutter the whole time.

i stop here, alrdy said enough. ppl who are interested in this will get what i said. if you do not, i dont care buddy.
Sun 13 Sep 2020 7:24 AM by Noashakra
Freakzilla wrote:
Sun 13 Sep 2020 7:15 AM
Luri. 40 bow, 40 pf, 39 blades, 35 stealth. I use a shield, but maybe I shouldn't...dunno, I don't have enough experience. My bow damage seems to suck. Not sure about ra path either. I understand that one of the ra increases buffs,. Could use pointers. I don't really know anyone on the server...would be nice to hang with some cool people to show me the ropes.

You should not, you have 5% or 10% base chance to block (I don't remember exactly) vs 25% chance to swing left hand
Sun 13 Sep 2020 8:26 AM by asnusia
Anyone know the acctual difference between 35, 40, 45 and 50 bow?
Mon 14 Sep 2020 6:18 AM by inoeth
asnusia wrote:
Sun 13 Sep 2020 8:26 AM
Anyone know the acctual difference between 35, 40, 45 and 50 bow?

50, 45 bow = wall camper
40 bow = "jumps off the wall the first time and tries to melee"
35 bow = getting better
27 bow = pr0 gamer
Mon 14 Sep 2020 8:46 AM by Cadebrennus
inoeth wrote:
Mon 14 Sep 2020 6:18 AM
asnusia wrote:
Sun 13 Sep 2020 8:26 AM
Anyone know the acctual difference between 35, 40, 45 and 50 bow?

50, 45 bow = wall camper
40 bow = "jumps off the wall the first time and tries to melee"
35 bow = getting better
27 bow = pr0 gamer

inoeth=pr0 troller

If you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation then stay silent. Let people discuss the topic without your flaming and trolling.
Mon 14 Sep 2020 9:31 AM by gotwqqd
asnusia wrote:
Sun 13 Sep 2020 8:26 AM
Anyone know the acctual difference between 35, 40, 45 and 50 bow?
I think sniper spec 50ish bow 4x pf (highest dex/quick and da) is pretty powerful
Could be hib having lots of relics
But even as a minstrel with chain I’m pretty much dead before I can react(latency?) as I’ll have less than 20% hits after first couple shots when correct arrow used
Mon 14 Sep 2020 11:10 AM by inoeth
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 14 Sep 2020 8:46 AM
inoeth=pr0 troller

If you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation then stay silent. Let people discuss the topic without your flaming and trolling.

accuses others of trolling and bring nothinc constructive to the conversation

--> trolls and bringts nothing constructive to the conversation himself.


dude why do you always! have quote me and add a stupid comment to it?
it feels like you have some kind of obsession with me. plz just ignore me, that would safe this forum from 50% of your troll posts.

tbh you could try to argument against my statement, but as always you refuse and instead rant.

you might have experianced that i do not try the correct your always false claims anymore because either ppl have to learn the hard way by following your advice or they instantly see that its bad. still you always attack me on sight. just stop it! be a man!
Mon 14 Sep 2020 4:09 PM by Cadebrennus
gotwqqd wrote:
Mon 14 Sep 2020 9:31 AM
asnusia wrote:
Sun 13 Sep 2020 8:26 AM
Anyone know the acctual difference between 35, 40, 45 and 50 bow?
I think sniper spec 50ish bow 4x pf (highest dex/quick and da) is pretty powerful
Could be hib having lots of relics
But even as a minstrel with chain I’m pretty much dead before I can react(latency?) as I’ll have less than 20% hits after first couple shots when correct arrow used

50 bow 48 path, yes it's a pretty good spec if not Druid buffed, and as long as the Ranger is allowed to keep shooting uninterrupted
Mon 14 Sep 2020 7:10 PM by Cadebrennus
"tbh you could try to argument against my statement, but as always you refuse and instead rant."

You made no valid statement to argue against. You made a troll post and that's all there is to it. Now let these people post constructive criticism and debate rationally without your inane comments.
Tue 15 Sep 2020 1:28 AM by IdiamVonGawaine
Sub-RR 5 Lurikeen
50 bow, 48 pf, 34 stealth, insignificant amounts of melee

Tried a bunch of different levels of bow/melee before my /24 hours elapsed once I hit 50 on my ranger. I found that at low RR his melee was awful regardless of spec, and his bow damage was equally junk, so I went all in on bow. With that much bow and PF he can stand a pretty decent chance at killing solo low HP classes that don't have shields, healer support, or have crappy templates, but anything grouped with a healer not AFK will just run away to safety unless somebody assists me.

If caught in melee he's basically free RP's.
Tue 15 Sep 2020 6:17 AM by Cadebrennus
IdiamVonGawaine wrote:
Tue 15 Sep 2020 1:28 AM
Sub-RR 5 Lurikeen
50 bow, 48 pf, 34 stealth, insignificant amounts of melee

Tried a bunch of different levels of bow/melee before my /24 hours elapsed once I hit 50 on my ranger. I found that at low RR his melee was awful regardless of spec, and his bow damage was equally junk, so I went all in on bow. With that much bow and PF he can stand a pretty decent chance at killing solo low HP classes that don't have shields, healer support, or have crappy templates, but anything grouped with a healer not AFK will just run away to safety unless somebody assists me.

If caught in melee he's basically free RP's.

I think you summed up Archery perfectly in this post, and the drawbacks to speccing entirely in the Archer class's defining spec lines.

That being said have you considered dropping Archery to 45 and getting 18 CD 10 Blades? It will give you a chance to side stun and side snare to get away, especially if you use the fastest weapon possible. I suggest using Dex/Qui debuff weapons if you can to give you a slight edge in slowing the opponent's swing speed which could prevent them from getting a snare or stun on you.
Tue 15 Sep 2020 8:33 PM by IdiamVonGawaine
Cadebrennus wrote:
Tue 15 Sep 2020 6:17 AM
That being said have you considered dropping Archery to 45 and getting 18 CD 10 Blades?

I tried bow at 35, 40, 45, 50, and even went full melee with pretty much nothing in bow. I found that I got more use out of the extra bow damage at 50 than I did at 45, due to the fact that most of my deaths involved multiple assassin/archer adds on me or getting CC'd and tanked / roasted at range by casters.

Imo if you plan on running with other archers, then 35 or 40 is fine for bow, but if you want to run solo and snipe, 50 in bow will help you kill targets more than the 45 in bow will help you stay alive by giving you more melee options. Target selection, of course, is crucial.

ymmv
Thu 17 Sep 2020 12:24 AM by stewbeedoo
I'm hybrid from a spec perspective with melee oriented RAs.

RR8
39 Blades
20 CD
35 Arch
32 Stealth
42 PF
Fri 18 Sep 2020 9:11 AM by asnusia
Can work a setup like this for a hybrid ranger for soloing?

race: lurikeen
stat: +10str, dex, qui
rr5 spec: 47bow, 35stealth, 39blade, 29cd, 10path (at rr7 50bow, 33 stealth)
ra: quick 3 (cap quickness to 250) ip3, purge3, tough3, lw, tireless
armor: galla chest + full abla
charge: DA to use in combat so no legion heal

If i use a da charge after aim an arrow the shot is rupted?
Fri 18 Sep 2020 9:21 AM by Cadebrennus
asnusia wrote:
Fri 18 Sep 2020 9:11 AM
Can work a setup like this for a hybrid ranger for soloing?

race: lurikeen
stat: +10str, dex, qui
rr5 spec: 47bow, 35stealth, 39blade, 29cd, 10path (at rr7 50bow, 33 stealth)
ra: quick 3 (cap quickness to 250) ip3, purge3, tough3, lw, tireless
armor: galla chest + full abla
charge: DA to use in combat so no legion heal

If i use a da charge after aim an arrow the shot is rupted?

Low path is perfectly viable and I've used it, along with DA charge for both melee and Archery. I haven't noticed any kind of self-interrupt from using the DA charge mid-shot. I love it and you usually only get less than 30 seconds of uninterrupted fire anyway so the DA charge is perfect IMO
Sat 24 Oct 2020 12:31 AM by nixxo87
is melee ranger dead? have a 50 shar ranger sitting there, wondering if melee is dead after the MOA nerf
Tue 3 Nov 2020 2:35 PM by watbrif
Speaking of melee ranger: given the announced changes, will people now ditch the bow line again? This is getting silly... I feel we're trapped in a never-ending melee/bow spec loop (or one could just stop playing ranger, since this seems to be the ultimate goal of the recent changes).
Tue 3 Nov 2020 2:41 PM by Cadebrennus
watbrif wrote:
Tue 3 Nov 2020 2:35 PM
Speaking of melee ranger: given the announced changes, will people now ditch the bow line again? This is getting silly... I feel we're trapped in a never-ending melee/bow spec loop (or one could just stop playing ranger, since this seems to be the ultimate goal of the recent changes).

Being that PF really isn't worth the points put into it, I've specced low path and used a DA charge (see above).

That being said, if an Archer is going to rely on melee damage, you might as well go with the Archer who is on a higher melee table than other Archers AND Thanes. Yup, I'm leveling a Hunter now. Bonus: their Archery isn't nerfed!
Wed 4 Nov 2020 7:57 AM by Sepplord
Didn't you just claim a few days ago that you don't play ranger, but your merc?


So you ditched your mercenary because the unused ranger got nerfed to level a melee hunter that didn't get changed and is just like they have been for months?


well...sorry, that sounds completely made up to push a point
Wed 4 Nov 2020 8:15 AM by inoeth
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 4 Nov 2020 7:57 AM
Didn't you just claim a few days ago that you don't play ranger, but your merc?


So you ditched your mercenary because the unused ranger got nerfed to level a melee hunter that didn't get changed and is just like they have been for months?


well...sorry, that sounds completely made up to push a point

the normal bullshit

---> https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/cadebrennus like over a year now
Wed 4 Nov 2020 8:16 AM by inoeth
well 9%.... rangers still hit for 800-900 crit i dont see any reason why bow spec would be gimped now LOL
Thu 5 Nov 2020 8:12 AM by Cadebrennus
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 4 Nov 2020 7:57 AM
Didn't you just claim a few days ago that you don't play ranger, but your merc?


So you ditched your mercenary because the unused ranger got nerfed to level a melee hunter that didn't get changed and is just like they have been for months?


well...sorry, that sounds completely made up to push a point

I started to miss the Ranger, and felt like playing it again, and then the nerfs were announced. Because of that I decided to level a Hunter instead. I still play the Merc but I don't get to play often, especially because most of my play time is helping a 6 year old play. He kills stuff and I keep him healed, so there goes my group play time, and my Merc time.
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