Re: [Q2 2020] Crit Hit Chance and Crit Damage

#121
A 95dmg weapon proc is now not only more effective than MoPain, its just outright better.

95 dmg proc. (variance)+resists = a 70-80dmg spike
18% proc rate (Someone feel free to correct me, but i think it's around this proc rate?)

Compared to MoPain4 (to achieve 19%) crit rate

To crit for 70-80dmg you need to swing for 250dmg a swing.

Then add in a factor such as a weapon proc being able to be added to an offhand weapon and hit for 75/80 dmg. So MoPain becomes incomparable to the benefit of a weapon proc there.

Could also consider that ablatives negate melee damage further and account for a further reduced critical hit as well, but then its tricky since counter arguments to that are group resists bringing magic resists to 50% etc, so we'll leave that out of it.

Summary: MoPain has now become less useful than a weapon proc. oO ?!?!? This feels weird.
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Re: [Q2 2020] Crit Hit Chance and Crit Damage

#122
Taniquetil wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:13 pm
Summary: MoPain has now become less useful than a weapon proc. oO ?!?!? This feels weird.
I thought they said that overall the damage has not changed much:
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:40 pm
This will result in the average total damage being about 2% higher at level 9 of these RAs, less than 2% at lower levels and no change without these RAs.
So MoPain has always been like that? Maybe you had the wrong idea before.
Never explain, never complain, never pander.

Re: [Q2 2020] Crit Hit Chance and Crit Damage

#123
Taniquetil wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:13 pm
A 95dmg weapon proc is now not only more effective than MoPain, its just outright better.

95 dmg proc. (variance)+resists = a 70-80dmg spike
18% proc rate (Someone feel free to correct me, but i think it's around this proc rate?)

Compared to MoPain4 (to achieve 19%) crit rate

To crit for 70-80dmg you need to swing for 250dmg a swing.

Then add in a factor such as a weapon proc being able to be added to an offhand weapon and hit for 75/80 dmg. So MoPain becomes incomparable to the benefit of a weapon proc there.

Could also consider that ablatives negate melee damage further and account for a further reduced critical hit as well, but then its tricky since counter arguments to that are group resists bringing magic resists to 50% etc, so we'll leave that out of it.

Summary: MoPain has now become less useful than a weapon proc. oO ?!?!? This feels weird.
This is kind of a weird comparison since it's not a choice of one or the other, but I get that you have to spend RA points to get one and not for the other, so that's something.
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Re: [Q2 2020] Crit Hit Chance and Crit Damage

#125
joshisanonymous wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:53 pm
This is kind of a weird comparison since it's not a choice of one or the other, but I get that you have to spend RA points to get one and not for the other, so that's something.
Before, yes you were gambling, right, some fights MoP crits would suck and others you'd hit bangers that could really affect a fight, which Imo was more exciting. Of course sometimes that would average out over a single 10-20 swing fight and amount to about the same, but in reality it could affect things like pushing people to need to use an RA earlier than they planned, or drop a heal pot earlier and react. Now due to this change the fight style feels a lot more predictable, which feels like a bit of a shame.

Before you could crit for up to 50% so a single swing would only need to be 150dmg in order to make the crit as effective or more effective than a dd proc in certain cases. Because yes you can average it out over 10k swings, but no one fight lasts 10k swings. you're looking for spike damage in certain instances to make fights surprise/delight you.

Not just notice a slight bump every 10 swings.

I get that the maths says 'average over time is roughly the same' although they did concede that they did infact nerf MoP more than the original statement, meaning that the nerf has actually now reduced overall damage output more than 2% stated originally.



*****FYI****** I've pretty much only ever run low MoP setup myself so it doesnt overly affect my playstyle, but I do notice it makes the fights a fair bit mre predictable, which is a shame imo, even if it was sometimes to my own disadvantage, it does make the game less 'colourful'
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Re: [Q2 2020] Crit Hit Chance and Crit Damage

#126
Centenario wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:48 pm
Taniquetil wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:13 pm
Summary: MoPain has now become less useful than a weapon proc. oO ?!?!? This feels weird.
I thought they said that overall the damage has not changed much:
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:40 pm
This will result in the average total damage being about 2% higher at level 9 of these RAs, less than 2% at lower levels and no change without these RAs.
So MoPain has always been like that? Maybe you had the wrong idea before.
Taniquetil wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:54 pm
I get that the maths says 'average over time is roughly the same' although they did concede that they did infact nerf MoP more than the original statement, meaning that the nerf has actually now reduced overall damage output more than 2% stated originally.

That was only the initial intention of the change. Because the inital change had similar average dmg but too many "lethal-spikes" they couldn't leave it in. Instead of reverting the change, they just removed the critdmg-scaling portion that the change had introduced and increased the critchance from 20 to 25%. But the initial critchance of MoP (and WP/etc...) was 39%.
The critdamage is now fixed to 30%, the average of the variance (10-50%).
Critchance is down from 39% to 25%.

So, in total critchance was nerfed by 14% absolute (about 1/3reduction relatively) and the possibility to have a really hard hitting crit of 45-50% bonusdamage was removed. Kind of the opposite of what this change was supposed (or at least what we were told) to do (aka giving crits a special feeling back).

Re: [Q2 2020] Crit Hit Chance and Crit Damage

#127
when that special feeling should be grief and anger that the crit just executed could have done almost twice as much damage a few days ago and you are now thinking about whether you could have won the fight three days ago... ya then the change totaly works.

opinions are different... sure... but in my opinion crits were more fun a few days ago, when you can call a crit a crit. now it does the average dmg... but that is nothing special and boring. as far as I'm concerned i dropped the ra... the point invest after the second level of it is not worth anything. the average benefit is that low that every other ra is more rewarding now.
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Re: [Q2 2020] Crit Hit Chance and Crit Damage

#128
Arthoras wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:22 am
when that special feeling should be grief and anger that the crit just executed could have done almost twice as much damage a few days ago and you are now thinking about whether you could have won the fight three days ago... ya then the change totaly works.

opinions are different... sure... but in my opinion crits were more fun a few days ago, when you can call a crit a crit. now it does the average dmg... but that is nothing special and boring. as far as I'm concerned i dropped the ra... the point invest after the second level of it is not worth anything. the average benefit is that low that every other ra is more rewarding now.
So top out at MoP at 2?

Re: [Q2 2020] Crit Hit Chance and Crit Damage

#130
Arthoras wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:22 am
when that special feeling should be grief and anger that the crit just executed could have done almost twice as much damage a few days ago and you are now thinking about whether you could have won the fight three days ago... ya then the change totaly works.

opinions are different... sure... but in my opinion crits were more fun a few days ago, when you can call a crit a crit. now it does the average dmg... but that is nothing special and boring. as far as I'm concerned i dropped the ra... the point invest after the second level of it is not worth anything. the average benefit is that low that every other ra is more rewarding now.
At least your char seems to have alternatives (mine also has tons thankfully)

There are many chars that don't though. They are just stuck with a 14%critchance nerf, out of nowwhere