Realm Switching Timer Poll

Started 5 Aug 2018
by Kyzuma
in Open Community Votes
Hey all!
I just wanted to gauge the population's opinion on this subject.
Do you like the idea of a 12-hour timer when switching realms? It is good how it is? Should it be shorter? Longer?
Vote here: https://www.strawpoll.me/16213006
Sun 5 Aug 2018 1:08 PM by Laadna
I'd say at least three days, maybe more. If people can change realm almost anytime they want, it could kill realm dynamics : I could swap realm just because my realm lost DF entrance, because I can't find a party (so I don't even have to ask myself if I could start one), because an enemy realm is "zerging", not to mention relics. And people will start to behave as lunatic teenagers just looking for immediate fun.
Sun 5 Aug 2018 4:12 PM by Quik
I like this simple rule of thumb.

A game is meant to be fun not work.

Just let people play and have fun and stop trying to force them to play YOUR way or do what YOU want them to do.

Everyone has different ideas of fun even on a RvR server.

12 hours is fine.
Sun 5 Aug 2018 6:27 PM by ramack
I think it should at least be a 2-3 days. 5-7 is good imo. A longer timer seems to keep realm loyalty. At first it was nice on live to switch instantly depending on action but that was one of the things that eventually took my interest out of live. The game just kind of became a deathmatch in my eyes and took away something important from the game that is hard to describe.
Sun 5 Aug 2018 6:33 PM by Quik
ramack wrote:
Sun 5 Aug 2018 6:27 PM
I think it should at least be a 2-3 days. 5-7 is good imo. A longer timer seems to keep realm loyalty. At first it was nice on live to switch instantly depending on action but that was one of the things that eventually took my interest out of live. The game just kind of became a deathmatch in my eyes and took away something important from the game that is hard to describe.

I'm not saying you are wrong as you have a good point, but should the game which is trying to keep people then force players in this manner? Seems to me that if you are playing alb and just hate it you should be able to switch pretty fast. Making someone wait 7 days could easily push people away who might like a lot of change.

You already have a penalty in the game for switching as you lose any money and crafters you have, why punish people more?

In my mind they would be better off adding realm loyalty bonuses for every week or 2 weeks or month of not switching AND being online playing during that time. I don't want to see people leave for 3 weeks then come back and get the bonus, just doesn't seem fair to those who are actually playing. Add some kind of bonus to those who log on at least a couple times a week and play for a period of time and stay in the same realm, to me that encourages realm loyalty more then telling you that you need to wait 7 days.
Sun 5 Aug 2018 9:18 PM by Kyzuma
Hey all, I'm the original creator of this thread/poll and just wanted to make a few comments.

First, I'm NOT a GM/Admin of the server, I just play the game. Just wanted to make that clear. Second, this post’s purpose was simply to gauge the population’s opinion, it doesn’t mean the GMs/Admins will do anything about its outcome. Third, its been very interesting to read over the comments and see how people feel along with their supporting reasoning. I originally thought only a handful of people would bother to read this thread or take the poll, let alone leave all these great comments. Since we are all sharing, here is my opinion.

I’d be content with a 4-hour to 12-hour timer, but I prefer the 8-hour option by far. I like the 8-hour one best for a handful of reasons. First, I like to play all realms because I enjoy exploring and playing through all three realm’s lands and classes. Second, I have friends who only like to play one realm, but different ones, so I’d like to keep playing with each of them from time to time without it being a huge hassle. Third, I know people are worried about abuse with RVR and realm switching but I honestly can’t think of one realistic way that an 8-hour timer could allow abuse. Lastly, I’m sure I’m not the only person who likes to play more than one realm. I think if the switching timer were to be extended longer than 12-hours it would cause too much hassle and annoyance, probably resulting in people feeling they had to choose a single realm and stick to it. Not too great for people like me.

These are my thoughts concerning cross-realming and possible RVR abuse.

First, for example, if you are currently playing an Alb and a Mid raid/zerg starts running around DF, the frontiers, or is focused on taking keeps I don’t see how an 8-hour timer would allow abuse. True, you could log off your Alb to hop over to Mid, but by the time you could log in the raid/zerg would most likely have finished long ago. So, this argument seems completely invalid.

Second, people have shown concern regarding DF seal farming and cross-realming. This makes no sense to me. True, there are account vaults, but they do not work across realms. So, for example, if you were farming seals in DF on a Hib and Mids took DF, you wouldn’t be able to log onto your Mid and continue to farm seals for the same purpose that your Hibs were. Your Mid could farm seals after you switched but it would be of no benefit to your Hib or Alb characters. Also, 8 hours is still a long time. By the time you could log in on the other realm who even knows which realm would own DF. The whole thing seems illogical to me.

Thanks for reading.
Mon 6 Aug 2018 11:11 AM by Skorra
In my opinion the missing realm timer destroyed the Live Server RVR. 12 hours are very gracious, no need to change it. I mean without the old realm loyalty, Phoenix is just a worse version of Live.

@Quik: If you hate Alb, than delete your chars and you can immediately start new at mid/hib.
Mon 6 Aug 2018 8:11 PM by daocgod
No timer
Mon 6 Aug 2018 11:45 PM by ramack
Quik you made a good point that made me realize I was looking at this wrong. Don't punish those that want to switch but instead reward those who stay. I'll have to say it's hard to argue with that. Perhaps 12 hours would be good then.
Tue 7 Aug 2018 8:10 AM by vronismus
12 hours are perfect.
Tue 7 Aug 2018 1:45 PM by Chaskha
12h is fine.
Only thing that could be considered, maybe, is when a realm is severely under populated maybe make it faster to jump in.
Tue 7 Aug 2018 6:33 PM by Falken
12 hours is fine, but I wouldn't be opposed to longer. I truly believe in realm loyalty and if you are wanting to switch to start all over again maybe the long switch timer will make you reconsider or as somebody else suggested just delete it all and start fresh, if you have really decided you don't like the realm or community then you aren't coming back anyways .

I just don't want to see a system that people are going to abuse, however I do like the idea of a loyalty bonus for those that are really dedicated to a realm even if it was small.
Tue 7 Aug 2018 7:20 PM by Geek
You quit playing at 2am, go to sleep, wake up at 2pm, and log into another realm. Yep, 12hours is fine.
Wed 8 Aug 2018 11:31 PM by Zansobar
Is the realm switch timer a cool down or do you have to wait that long to switch? That is, can you switch immediately but then have to wait the timer before switching again (cooldown) or do you have to start the switch process and then wait for the timer before it completes? I personally like the cooldown method more myself.
Thu 9 Aug 2018 12:19 AM by Niix
I want it to be at least long enough the decision to which you log in every night matters... however if you make a mistake and log into wrong one doesn’t ruin the game for a long time.

8-12hours
Thu 9 Aug 2018 12:31 AM by Armsmancer
Geek wrote:
Tue 7 Aug 2018 7:20 PM
You quit playing at 2am, go to sleep, wake up at 2pm,

Thu 9 Aug 2018 6:29 AM by Galahad
The 12 hours are not a cool down but a fixed timer. Essentially, it will lock you into one realm for a given play session - that's the intention behind it.

As for realm loyalty, well, we hope to create some of that by having the loyalty bonus as well as through our newly announced realm war scoring system. There will always be people who don't care about any of that - and for those, 12 hours are just something they have to live with.
Sat 11 Aug 2018 4:12 AM by JaggedOne
Laadna wrote:
Sun 5 Aug 2018 1:08 PM
I'd say at least three days, maybe more. If people can change realm almost anytime they want, it could kill realm dynamics : I could swap realm just because my realm lost DF entrance, because I can't find a party (so I don't even have to ask myself if I could start one), because an enemy realm is "zerging", not to mention relics. And people will start to behave as lunatic teenagers just looking for immediate fun.


Why do you think people should be forced to play the game the way you think is best ? There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to have *any* wait period for switching realms. The way it works in beta - I log on and am presented with the 3 realms and I choose which one I want to enter at this time - is exactly the way it should work at release. There is no reason for it *not* to work this way.

Period.
Sat 11 Aug 2018 4:24 AM by JaggedOne
Kyzuma wrote:
Sun 5 Aug 2018 9:18 PM
Hey all, I'm the original creator of this thread/poll and just wanted to make a few comments.

I’d be content with a 4-hour to 12-hour timer, but I prefer the 8-hour option by far. I like the 8-hour one best for a handful of reasons. First, I like to play all realms because I enjoy exploring and playing through all three realm’s lands and classes. Second, I have friends who only like to play one realm, but different ones, so I’d like to keep playing with each of them from time to time without it being a huge hassle. Third, I know people are worried about abuse with RVR and realm switching but I honestly can’t think of one realistic way that an 8-hour timer could allow abuse. Lastly, I’m sure I’m not the only person who likes to play more than one realm. I think if the switching timer were to be extended longer than 12-hours it would cause too much hassle and annoyance, probably resulting in people feeling they had to choose a single realm and stick to it. Not too great for people like me.


Thanks for starting this thread !!!

You mention 4, 8 , and 12-hour timers. But the list of reasons you provide (quoted above) are all arguments for *no* timer. This is supposed to be a fun game. What if I like something about each realm, and want to spend time on each one, whenever I feel like it ? The concept of "realm loyalty" may be a major factor to some people, but it is not to me, and I have every bit as much right to that opinion as the person who values so-called "realm royalty". The only remaining argument is that of "RvR abuse", and that is not a problem with open realm switching because even with timers, a person can meet someone on a private Discord and pass on any "realm spy" info that they want. This is the 21st century after all. Oh yeah, and it's a game.

No limits !!!
Sat 11 Aug 2018 8:38 AM by Laadna
JaggedOne wrote:
Sat 11 Aug 2018 4:12 AM
Why do you think people should be forced to play the game the way you think is best ? There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to have *any* wait period for switching realms. The way it works in beta - I log on and am presented with the 3 realms and I choose which one I want to enter at this time - is exactly the way it should work at release. There is no reason for it *not* to work this way.

Period.
I'm sorry, is there anything else you tried to say besides "shut up muh freedom" ? That is indeed a lot of words.
Mon 13 Aug 2018 5:02 AM by Kyzuma
JaggedOne wrote:
Sat 11 Aug 2018 4:24 AM
Kyzuma wrote:
Sun 5 Aug 2018 9:18 PM
Hey all, I'm the original creator of this thread/poll and just wanted to make a few comments.

I’d be content with a 4-hour to 12-hour timer, but I prefer the 8-hour option by far. I like the 8-hour one best for a handful of reasons. First, I like to play all realms because I enjoy exploring and playing through all three realm’s lands and classes. Second, I have friends who only like to play one realm, but different ones, so I’d like to keep playing with each of them from time to time without it being a huge hassle. Third, I know people are worried about abuse with RVR and realm switching but I honestly can’t think of one realistic way that an 8-hour timer could allow abuse. Lastly, I’m sure I’m not the only person who likes to play more than one realm. I think if the switching timer were to be extended longer than 12-hours it would cause too much hassle and annoyance, probably resulting in people feeling they had to choose a single realm and stick to it. Not too great for people like me.


Thanks for starting this thread !!!

You mention 4, 8 , and 12-hour timers. But the list of reasons you provide (quoted above) are all arguments for *no* timer. This is supposed to be a fun game. What if I like something about each realm, and want to spend time on each one, whenever I feel like it ? The concept of "realm loyalty" may be a major factor to some people, but it is not to me, and I have every bit as much right to that opinion as the person who values so-called "realm royalty". The only remaining argument is that of "RvR abuse", and that is not a problem with open realm switching because even with timers, a person can meet someone on a private Discord and pass on any "realm spy" info that they want. This is the 21st century after all. Oh yeah, and it's a game.

No limits !!!

The reasons I talked about could be used to support a NO-timer option, but this was never my intent. As I stated, I support a timer between 4 to 12 hours, preferably 8 if I could pick one. I never talked about a no timer option but here are my thoughts.

Personally, I dislike the idea of having no timer to switch realms because it creates a system which allows mainstream abuse. There would be no rules or countermeasures in place to prevent people from instantly switching realms which could result in a wide range of abuse and gameplay issues revolving around RVR and gameplay in RVR zones. For an example, back when DF was open to all realms I’ve already experienced an event where people who were playing on the same realm as me switched to another one and wiped the group I was leveling with because they wanted the spot for their own toons so they could level there. That’s not right, and there are countless other ways/scenarios where similar abuse could happen with no timer.

You said that abuse is possible even with a timer and I agree. Yes, it's always possible, but I genuinely believe it’s much less frequent and is harder to do, resulting in it happening less often and impacting fewer people by far.

Having said that, you have your own opinion and I will never say that it matters any less than anyone else’s and I’m glad to hear your thoughts on this topic, but the whole point of my post was to gauge the community’s opinion as a whole. I’d like to see what the majority of us want and then hope that the DEVs and GMs take it into consideration. There’s no guarantee they even will though.

If it turns out that most of us want no timer, then I hope it happens. If it turns out that most of us want a 3-day timer or longer, then I hope that happens. This is a MULTIplayer game. It should focus on what most people want, not just what I’d want or what you’d want.

Thanks!
Mon 3 Sep 2018 10:03 PM by JaggedOne
First off, thanks for the opportunity to present an opinion, even if it is a minority one.

Having read all the back and forth on this subject, I have been persuaded that some timer makes sense, and I retract my original request for no timer. However, I think 4 hours is plenty. That way, if I want to, I can play Hib (for example), go to bed (I spend a max of 5 hrs in bed due to my back), get up and play Alb or Mid.
Tue 4 Sep 2018 1:09 PM by imissswg
Even 4 hours is plenty. By the time the timer is up, whatever battle you're trying to switch sides in will very likely be long over
Tue 4 Sep 2018 4:57 PM by Kohi
Kyzuma wrote: Personally, I dislike the idea of having no timer to switch realms because it creates a system which allows mainstream abuse. There would be no rules or countermeasures in place to prevent people from instantly switching realms which could result in a wide range of abuse and gameplay issues revolving around RVR and gameplay in RVR zones. For an example, back when DF was open to all realms I’ve already experienced an event where people who were playing on the same realm as me switched to another one and wiped the group I was leveling with because they wanted the spot for their own toons so they could level there. That’s not right, and there are countless other ways/scenarios where similar abuse could happen with no timer.


Same experience here too (some players don't even bother changing much their char names, so it's obvious..) and tbh, i wish the timer would already be in place (at least 1h) to avoid rp farming. This being said, regarding the length and the realm loyalty thing, in a perfect world, Phoenix would have 3 servers with only 1 realm account allowed per server, but as this is not possible, i simply hope a 8 or 12h time will be set, and that the realm loyalty system will be interesting enough for people not to switch.
Mon 10 Sep 2018 4:04 PM by schreon
I miss the option to vote for 30 minutes.
Tue 11 Sep 2018 1:38 AM by relvinian
I think most tasks are like 20 minutes or 30 minutes?

Minimum should be 30 minutes, imo.

Otherwise you could login to alb, do a task. Logout. Login to mid, do the same task.

Or DF changes hands so you have 15 minutes, and login the appropriate toon.
Wed 12 Sep 2018 5:16 PM by Smilo
relvinian wrote:
Tue 11 Sep 2018 1:38 AM
Otherwise you could login to alb, do a task. Logout. Login to mid, do the same task.

No you cant, please dont make up stuff.
Wed 19 Sep 2018 6:17 PM by jelzinga_EU
Only downside I can think of a long realm-switch timer is that a potential money-transfer from Realm A to Realm B will be a lot harder. If something can be thought about that (e.g. money-vault which is account and realm-wide) I wouldn't mind any timer whatsoever.
Wed 19 Sep 2018 6:19 PM by ecopli
7days it's a very good value.
Wed 19 Sep 2018 6:21 PM by Raunz
Please no timer.. there is no reason to have it.
Tue 2 Oct 2018 4:38 AM by defiasbandit
3 days or longer. I think the server is better if players dedicate themselves to one realm.
Mon 15 Oct 2018 2:11 PM by CowboyFaern
12 hours makes it so that anything you might have picked up in /advice etc. will be invalid by the time you can play on another realm
Mon 15 Oct 2018 2:13 PM by Ganaka
CowboyFaern wrote:
Mon 15 Oct 2018 2:11 PM
12 hours makes it so that anything you might have picked up in /advice etc. will be invalid by the time you can play on another realm

^^
Tue 16 Oct 2018 10:24 AM by Sepplord
i would like to be able to switch instantly, but then have a timer that prohibits switching back for some time

It would allow me to play char X, but when friends come online in a different realm i can switch to them and play with them



Problem, ofcourse, is that others probably would abuse this to join the winning team and increase the biggest zergs size even more...
Wed 17 Oct 2018 12:47 PM by Ombrix
It’s difficult to make everyone happy, and i hope they will find a way.

My opinion about this thread.

The main problem is : cross realming, to abuse of some kind of reward without act on it ( like df/relic bonuses etc etc )

The second problem is : we have to care about people play this game for more than 15years, and don’t wan’t to play only 1 realm. Without any abusing, just because of change a bit sometime.

My view is : I played this game till 2001, and i really enjoy switching realm. Why ? Because this way have improve my gameplay by 100%, just because of playing ennemies class to know more about the class. Right now is the Old Daoc setup. Lot of people like it very much, and maybe didn’t play at this time that much on live. ( not born or whatever x) ) so they like to log some class to know exactly what they got here.

Just because of some cross realmers abuse we punish some people who just like to play every class ... humm... it’s very difficult.

I like the huge timer to cross realm like 8h/12h because people got attachment for his realm. But how we can keep this, and keep the fun to play every class when we wan’t ...?
Maybe some kind of penality by cross realming ? Can’t enter in df for a amount of time because of cross realming. Or you can but you don’t earn any seals. I don’t really know how this can works, but let’s try to just give penality for the cross realmer who wan’t abuse. And doesn’t give penality to the people who just wan’t to play every class for fun..

Thanks for reading
Mon 28 Jan 2019 6:40 PM by t0beyeus
Skorra wrote:
Mon 6 Aug 2018 11:11 AM
In my opinion the missing realm timer destroyed the Live Server RVR. 12 hours are very gracious, no need to change it. I mean without the old realm loyalty, Phoenix is just a worse version of Live.

@Quik: If you hate Alb, than delete your chars and you can immediately start new at mid/hib.

The difference was that back when Live has Realm Locked servers there were other servers to play on in another realm. So if you were Albion on Tristan you could play Midgard on Bors and Hibernia on Igraine.

I personally think 12 hours is too long. If I stay up late playing on Albion with my friends and go to bed at 2 am. I cannot wake up at 10 am. and play my Hibs solo when I wake up. So either I do not play or I sign into my Albs and reset the lock out timer. I think 6 hours would be plenty. It lets you sleep, or work and come home and be able to swap realms.

Most players have server loyalty for where they plan to run. The hardcore went to Mid and they dominate as they always were back in the day due to their 8 man set up. Hibs went Alb and Albs when Hib both thinking they were picking the underdog.

If there were 3 servers I would be fine with a perma Realm Lock but we only have 1 server so I think a 6 hour lock out would be perfect.
Tue 29 Jan 2019 8:48 PM by Tharlin
I personally would say a timer of about 2 hours is much enough. It should only prohibit instantly joining the winning team. But if you have to log out and wait for 2 hours, everything could have changed and you don't know which is the winning team right now.

So please reduce it to 2 hours.
Tue 29 Jan 2019 11:03 PM by opossum12
Ombrix wrote:
Wed 17 Oct 2018 12:47 PM
It’s difficult to make everyone happy, and i hope they will find a way.

My opinion about this thread.

The main problem is : cross realming, to abuse of some kind of reward without act on it ( like df/relic bonuses etc etc )

The second problem is : we have to care about people play this game for more than 15years, and don’t wan’t to play only 1 realm. Without any abusing, just because of change a bit sometime.

My view is : I played this game till 2001, and i really enjoy switching realm. Why ? Because this way have improve my gameplay by 100%, just because of playing ennemies class to know more about the class. Right now is the Old Daoc setup. Lot of people like it very much, and maybe didn’t play at this time that much on live. ( not born or whatever x) ) so they like to log some class to know exactly what they got here.

Just because of some cross realmers abuse we punish some people who just like to play every class ... humm... it’s very difficult.

I like the huge timer to cross realm like 8h/12h because people got attachment for his realm. But how we can keep this, and keep the fun to play every class when we wan’t ...?
Maybe some kind of penality by cross realming ? Can’t enter in df for a amount of time because of cross realming. Or you can but you don’t earn any seals. I don’t really know how this can works, but let’s try to just give penality for the cross realmer who wan’t abuse. And doesn’t give penality to the people who just wan’t to play every class for fun..

Thanks for reading

Actually that makes sense. What if you could switch realm instantly, but need to wait 12 hours to get Realm Points?

The switch timer isn’t for people XPing, it’s to prevent people from swapping camps and influence the larger RvR. However, if by switching you dramatically reduce their RP gains, I think you would only see people that really want to play the other realm.
Wed 30 Jan 2019 4:05 AM by EclipseThing
I think it should go back to how it originally was with the old servers before Ywain (Merlin, Lancelot, Bors, etc..) one server, one realm. If u want to switch u have to delete your toons. Otherwise there's no realm pride whatsoever, which was a huge part of DAoC's original success..If only there were 3 Phoenix servers.. (hint hint)
Wed 30 Jan 2019 9:23 AM by Durgrim
Why is there room for discussion? Have I missed a request for community poll by the owners of the server?
Read the rule set and by creating the account you have accepted it. Everything.
Discussion about something is good and fruitful, but creating a poll.....lol...we're not in Switzerland.



M.
Tue 5 Feb 2019 2:46 AM by Frieza
agree with Durgrim, i cant see a good point of lowering the timer. Other servers usually put it to 7 days+, 12 hours is a MASSIVE decline. Also, goto bed, wake up, work, come home and guarantee you can play a diff realm. If you cant plan ahead on that schedule, youre probably not the idea person to be swapping realms anyway.

Dont forget, if someon likes playing with you, and you switch realms, and they dont see you for a while, they might stop playing. The people arguing to decrease this will only poison the community imo.

Dont forget this game was designed for REALM WAR, not everyone for themselves. If it was, it would be a pvp server (which i know dont exist because id be on it if it did! haha #mordred).
Tue 5 Feb 2019 10:13 PM by DirtyAlb
There shouldn’t be a timer. If I can’t find an rvr group in one realm, my choice is log or pve. I should be able to pop over to another realm see if I can get an rvr group there. I just want to play rvr. Could care less about relics. With task zones for rvr nobody cares about relics either. So this so called cross rearming falls under who cares.
Tue 5 Feb 2019 10:23 PM by Quik
I have always been against the 12 hours timer. Personally a 2-3 hour timer is more then enough.

This is a freeshard people, it is not a hardcore game that we are paying money for. It is suppose to be fun for everyone, not just for those who seem to want to push realm loyalty.

Realm loyalty is great but where is realm loyalty when groups won't take NS/BM/Hero's because they want the 3rd shroomer or bomber?

If the realm I am playing doesn't want to be loyal to me, why should I be forced to stay there and not try another realm for awhile?

Stop letting a few people force everyone to play one style and let people just have fun...ON A FREE SHARD.
Tue 5 Feb 2019 11:28 PM by Quik
defiasbandit wrote:
Tue 5 Feb 2019 10:36 PM
Quik wrote:
Tue 5 Feb 2019 10:23 PM
I have always been against the 12 hours timer. Personally a 2-3 hour timer is more then enough.

This is a freeshard people, it is not a hardcore game that we are paying money for. It is suppose to be fun for everyone, not just for those who seem to want to push realm loyalty.

Realm loyalty is great but where is realm loyalty when groups won't take NS/BM/Hero's because they want the 3rd shroomer or bomber?

If the realm I am playing doesn't want to be loyal to me, why should I be forced to stay there and not try another realm for awhile?

Stop letting a few people force everyone to play one style and let people just have fun...ON A FREE SHARD.

Yeah I would like it if I didn't need to run in slow motion across multiple frontiers, because I forgot to roll a speed class.A hastener buff potion to make the game more fun and not slow paced slog. Its about fun right? Who is being harmed by my hastener potion. One style Play one of 3 classes that has speed or run in slowmo.

Yep but you have an easy fix...play a class with speed, boom, fixed.

Realm switch timer just puts an unnecessary wait for people who might want to play on another realm.

The harm in allowing non speed classes to have speed means it ruins what makes speed classes special.

Realm switch timer being 2-3 hours has ZERO effect on the game...speed pots would have a huge impact.
Tue 5 Feb 2019 11:40 PM by defiasbandit
Quik wrote:
Tue 5 Feb 2019 11:28 PM
defiasbandit wrote:
Tue 5 Feb 2019 10:36 PM
Quik wrote:
Tue 5 Feb 2019 10:23 PM
I have always been against the 12 hours timer. Personally a 2-3 hour timer is more then enough.

This is a freeshard people, it is not a hardcore game that we are paying money for. It is suppose to be fun for everyone, not just for those who seem to want to push realm loyalty.

Realm loyalty is great but where is realm loyalty when groups won't take NS/BM/Hero's because they want the 3rd shroomer or bomber?

If the realm I am playing doesn't want to be loyal to me, why should I be forced to stay there and not try another realm for awhile?

Stop letting a few people force everyone to play one style and let people just have fun...ON A FREE SHARD.

Yeah I would like it if I didn't need to run in slow motion across multiple frontiers, because I forgot to roll a speed class.A hastener buff potion to make the game more fun and not slow paced slog. Its about fun right? Who is being harmed by my hastener potion. One style Play one of 3 classes that has speed or run in slowmo.

Yep but you have an easy fix...play a class with speed, boom, fixed.

Realm switch timer just puts an unnecessary wait for people who might want to play on another realm.

The harm in allowing non speed classes to have speed means it ruins what makes speed classes special.

Realm switch timer being 2-3 hours has ZERO effect on the game...speed pots would have a huge impact.

Im talking about 154% speed. Speed does not make a class like Sorcerer unique. Runemaster also gets speed, but why not Spiritmaster. Why does it even matter when these classes play im groups with 204% speed. The distribution of 154% speed is random amongst the casters. Giving other classes hastener potions does not harm the viability of 154% speed classes. Speed is whst makes RvR playable.
Wed 6 Feb 2019 12:04 AM by Quik
The creators of DAoC decided they wanted those classes to have speed.

I would have given different classes speed maybe but I still would have limited it to certain classes, not everyone.
Wed 6 Feb 2019 2:13 AM by The Skies Asunder
I sadly wasn't around this server during the Beta, as I didn't really know it existed until right before it went live. Had I been here I would have done my best to have as little a realm timer as possible. Having the timer is really just an annoyance for people who want to play all three realms. Which makes it so a few people who think the world will end if someone switches sides for a bit are dictating how other people play the game, and forcing others to play a game the way you think it should be played is exactly how things so south. Just make it so people who are switching before the 12 hours are up can't gain more than a certain amount, or percentage per kill/task of RPs. I feel it would help appease more people than the current system. After playing the game for 11 years previously, the realm pride thing just has very little effect on me, I would argue on most people actually, anyway.
Wed 6 Feb 2019 2:39 AM by Frieza
DirtyAlb wrote:
Tue 5 Feb 2019 10:13 PM
There shouldn’t be a timer. If I can’t find an rvr group in one realm, my choice is log or pve. I should be able to pop over to another realm see if I can get an rvr group there. I just want to play rvr. Could care less about relics. With task zones for rvr nobody cares about relics either. So this so called cross rearming falls under who cares.

So if you cant find an rvr group (assuming because population issues), and you goto another realm to "rvr", then who are you going to fight against? The one other realm that maybe has people or maybe doesnt? Seems like youll have the same issue regardless just no one will know where you are and if youre on.

Why dont you go solo?

Also, lets say theres an alb 8man, so no group for you, an then 7 mids and 7 hibs, youre proposing that, that would be the ideal scenario right? you switch over. Lets go a bit forward with this, and assume youre the best player around (because i know you will say you are diirty). You join the 8man mids, you roll the 8 man albs and 8 man hibs.......what do they do? they log/ go pve. So now we have 7 players logging out instead of just one and less activity. Theres a downside to every upside with this game, and its about finding balance.

Not only that, if people cant gets a pve group, theyll instantly switch to one they can and one realm has favour then as its the easiest to exp (hib) as their chars are great all rounders in rvr and pve (chanter/ ment/ druid). So again you build population on one side and hurt another.

12 hours is even too short if you ask me, but i think its a good balance.
Wed 6 Feb 2019 3:30 PM by Ashenspire
2-4 hours is a long enough timer to have no impact on the game if you switch. DF could change hands that quickly. Relics can be taken, etc. In 2-4 hours, any information you might be privy to could become completely irrelevant.

Most information that could prove deteimental to a realm if the other 2 found out ( SI raids, dragon raids, etc) are typically on the Discord anyway, so they're not exactly secret
Fri 8 Feb 2019 2:08 AM by Frieza
I still disagree Ashenspire,

When you consider Keep taking, then relics, this could easily span over 2-4 hours (see hib with 50+ players hitting, you might stop, wait 2 hours and then join), therefore id say absolutely minimum has to be 6 hours. Thats basically a full day, so why not make it 12 under the same logic, as its rare for people to play consistently, over 6 hours in a row right?

I think the small amount that are pushing this will poison the community and hurt the server badly. I play with a lot of people i met in the game the day/ week/ month before (so dont have them on discord/ fb/ etc), if i cant find them because they got bored and went to another realm, im less likely to play for a longer period. I think a large portion of the 3k population will be the same (especially the new comers - which were all surprised to see so many as well - which again is great! ).
Fri 8 Feb 2019 2:59 AM by phixion
Lower team timer will just result in people following relics to play on the ezmode realm. We had it all on live.

In my opinion 12 hours is too low.
Fri 8 Feb 2019 2:31 PM by Rakul
Too bad the timer can't just be for the frontiers.
Fri 8 Feb 2019 3:26 PM by Meandow
phixion wrote:
Fri 8 Feb 2019 2:59 AM
Lower team timer will just result in people following relics to play on the ezmode realm. We had it all on live.

In my opinion 12 hours is too low.

On one end I don't really care because between my sessions of playing it's typically more than 18 hrs (sleep + work) so with the 12h timer I can choose from day to day which realm I want to play on (I only play alb so again I care even less) but that argument is just silly, especially on phoenix where relics are irrelevant 99% of the time. Enemy relics are stored in keeps and they take 10 days to charge up and it's only 5% dmg (1% every 2 days). I genuinely think you're completely wrong in your assessment of people tailing the relics.

Another argument would be that you would be able to give out information but come on, there's a 10 min delay rule on streamers (which nobody follows, btw), you're telling me a stream of a relic raid is not giving out more information than someone who would be able to log the other realm in say, 1 hour of being logged out? Add the fact that you have almost the entire server sitting in the same discord chat, able to give out any information they like to whomever they like (this would possibly fall under cross realming but phoenix staff can't monitor private messages so doesn't matter).

Personally doesn't see why the timer needs to be any longer than like 1 hour, if a relic raid takes longer than that to assemble you will be found out in other ways anyway.
Fri 8 Feb 2019 6:30 PM by darthenron
If the concern is that people will just flock to the more populated realm for the day/night, then maybe we should have a very small bonus for people who stick to playing on the same realm?

Maybe make everyone start out at a flat % bonus rate, the more times you switch a realm it goes down. It should also only take effect after a week or two of an account is created, so new players are not hurt for trying out new realms/classes.
Sun 17 Feb 2019 3:29 PM by Shadanwolf
I really do not like realm switching. 12 hours should be the absolute minimum. I voted for longer.
Sun 17 Feb 2019 11:22 PM by secky
12h is fine
Mon 18 Feb 2019 6:56 PM by FUINY7
Put timer on char that are lvl 48+, no timer for the rest
Mon 18 Feb 2019 8:09 PM by Quik
FUINY7 wrote:
Mon 18 Feb 2019 6:56 PM
Put timer on char that are lvl 48+, no timer for the rest

Oh I like this idea.

Who cares if people are swapping realms with lowbies, just limit for higher lvl toons.
Mon 18 Feb 2019 8:37 PM by chryso
I care. I care a lot.
Mon 18 Feb 2019 9:51 PM by FUINY7
The pool vote talk by itself, like in many other topic, there is an army of fanatic that have way too much exposition here, when you read messages it feel like most are against, but it's a false positive ratio since only those are the one willing to spend more time arguing.

It's a 18 YO game, none with common sense care about having a timer above the logical need which is around 4H, the vast majority of peoples just want to play...
maybe a small minority will try to exploit it, but in the end, you stick to your friends and that mean you stick to one realm most of the time, and what goes in 1 way will go in the other way, balanced.

If you care, you should get a life.
Tue 19 Feb 2019 6:35 AM by Sepplord
Quik wrote:
Mon 18 Feb 2019 8:09 PM
FUINY7 wrote:
Mon 18 Feb 2019 6:56 PM
Put timer on char that are lvl 48+, no timer for the rest

Oh I like this idea.

Who cares if people are swapping realms with lowbies, just limit for higher lvl toons.

???

People don't switch "with" their toon
how is that supposed to happen?

And people logging into different realms to check chats/who area/etc... can do that on a lowlevel just fine, then log back to their realm
Tue 19 Feb 2019 3:11 PM by chryso
FUINY7 wrote:
Mon 18 Feb 2019 9:51 PM
The pool vote talk by itself, like in many other topic, there is an army of fanatic that have way too much exposition here, when you read messages it feel like most are against, but it's a false positive ratio since only those are the one willing to spend more time arguing.

It's a 18 YO game, none with common sense care about having a timer above the logical need which is around 4H, the vast majority of peoples just want to play...
maybe a small minority will try to exploit it, but in the end, you stick to your friends and that mean you stick to one realm most of the time, and what goes in 1 way will go in the other way, balanced.

If you care, you should get a life.

You appear to care. A lot.
Tue 19 Feb 2019 5:53 PM by FUINY7
Sepplord wrote:
Tue 19 Feb 2019 6:35 AM
???

People don't switch "with" their toon
how is that supposed to happen?

And people logging into different realms to check chats/who area/etc... can do that on a lowlevel just fine, then log back to their realm
.
If you think the actual solution avoid that... it's just a nuisance for peoples that want to play the full game.


.

And anyways that kind of spy doesn't weight at all in the realm actions and limits between 2h and 6h should meet the same results as the one in place

and again check the pool vote, no need more useless debate listening to a outspoken minority..
Tue 19 Feb 2019 9:20 PM by Sepplord
FUINY7 wrote:
Tue 19 Feb 2019 5:53 PM
Sepplord wrote:
Tue 19 Feb 2019 6:35 AM
???

People don't switch "with" their toon
how is that supposed to happen?

And people logging into different realms to check chats/who area/etc... can do that on a lowlevel just fine, then log back to their realm
.
If you think the actual solution avoid that... it's just a nuisance for peoples that want to play the full game.


.

And anyways that kind of spy doesn't weight at all in the realm actions and limits between 2h and 6h should meet the same results as the one in place

and again check the pool vote, no need more useless debate listening to a outspoken minority..

I didn't even state an opinion in the comment you Quote.... all you are doing is assuming.

I replied to the weird idea of not letting highlevel toons switch realm and why that makes no sense in different levels.

And regarding the vote, it is very far from being an unbiased vote or drawn from a random sample of Players. Both important requirements for polling.
Tue 19 Feb 2019 9:33 PM by FUINY7
The main reasons of those limitations are to avoid crossrealm, i dont think lvl under 46-48 have an influence at all, if you dont see the sense of that...
Tue 19 Feb 2019 9:37 PM by Quik
Sepplord wrote:
Tue 19 Feb 2019 6:35 AM
Quik wrote:
Mon 18 Feb 2019 8:09 PM
FUINY7 wrote:
Mon 18 Feb 2019 6:56 PM
Put timer on char that are lvl 48+, no timer for the rest

Oh I like this idea.

Who cares if people are swapping realms with lowbies, just limit for higher lvl toons.

???

People don't switch "with" their toon
how is that supposed to happen?

And people logging into different realms to check chats/who area/etc... can do that on a lowlevel just fine, then log back to their realm

I obviously did not mean to switch my low lvl mid to hib...I simply said that instant switching between low lvl toons should be ok considering they won't impact RvR.

However you make a good point about still being able to read chat and such so I agree with you on that.

I still say 4 hours would be more than enough of a timer, but 12 hours works ok for me, I just don't see the point of putting limitations like this on people that are new and wanting to try other realms and classes.
Wed 20 Feb 2019 1:06 PM by DirtyAlb
Timer needs to go away, its annoying. Just because some people will exploit chat or whatever for RvR doesn't mean the vast majority would. Mass punishment for people that want to play a different realm /toon that aren't even thinking about exploiting anything because of a few lame people isn't right. Choice and freedom to play what you want, when you want is the way it should be. If they have to keep a timer at all 1 hour will work. Means they have to log off for an hour. Switch realm then if they want to go back they have to log off for another hour. who wants to do that just to gain info on rvr? All said and done though no timer is the way to go.
Wed 20 Feb 2019 1:53 PM by chryso
Most people don't write viruses for your computer. Most people don't rob banks. Most people don't commit murder. Unfortunately some people do. So we have laws that apply to all of us because of the few bad ones. Learn to live with it.
Fri 22 Feb 2019 5:05 PM by FUINY7
You are giving apagogical arguments... there is a difference between totalitarian measure and balanced one, you don't give jail to someone that smoked weed.
Rules is ok, but logical balanced one.
Fri 22 Feb 2019 6:57 PM by dalvik
12 Hours is a good timer, a little longer would be ok as well maybe up to 18-24 hours... but, it's adequate right now and haven't seen a need for a change. If they got rid of it; then I would just got back to live because this server would fall apart once people are switching on a whim again. I know in live people get too friendly with the enemy players (Since they play all realms), they stop attacking them at times and do odd discord style cross realming it's just a mess.
Sun 24 Feb 2019 11:06 AM by Gaspard
3-4h switch ftw
Sun 24 Feb 2019 2:06 PM by Evilreaper
I think I speak for most people here in saying I do not sleep 12 hours ... let alone 8 so anything from 6-8 hours would be great imo 3-4 does seem a little to short 6 would be my idea spot let you play one realm early that morning another later that day/night if so inclined. As a side not might help spread out the amount of mids
Sun 24 Feb 2019 6:59 PM by Moid
Make it 24 hours instead of just 12.
Sun 24 Feb 2019 7:13 PM by AngelRose
I voted 4 hours because it was the shortest time spam, but still too long. I would like to be able to level a toon on hib on my days off...but still group with mids during prime time.

I would prefer zero wait time, but understand how that can affect things like raids. Seems an hour wait time would keep the negative aspect of realm hopping to a minimum, but still let people enjoy all 3 realms.
Sun 24 Feb 2019 9:01 PM by Stoertebecker
Moid wrote:
Sun 24 Feb 2019 6:59 PM
Make it 24 hours instead of just 12.

This !

I´m not going to play with realm hoppers.
Mon 25 Feb 2019 5:22 AM by 47el
i came here because of the rampant realmhopping on live lol.
Mon 11 Mar 2019 11:06 PM by djegu
Any update on that poll ?
Tue 12 Mar 2019 1:31 PM by lurker
Devs have stated pretty recently that there are no changes coming here.
Based on the results of this poll the community is pretty event split on this subject.

I think 12 hours is fine so I’m all ok with it myself.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=5792

Ashok wrote:
Mon 25 Feb 2019 12:07 PM
While Phoenix does not strive to be a "full classic experience", we embrace classic values; like realm pride and your role & standing within that faction in the grand scheme. x-realming is of course a part of it.

You play Alb today and mid tomorrow; without waiting time in between (for most folks though).
Decide and live with your decision (if you want to play realm X or play with your friends Y).

12 hours are a compromise between the teams vision and the players needs.
This won't change, as said countless times before.
Tue 12 Mar 2019 2:28 PM by djegu
didn't saw that thank you Lurker !
Tue 12 Mar 2019 5:17 PM by Dominus
djegu wrote:
Tue 12 Mar 2019 2:28 PM
didn't saw that thank you Lurker !

Hugs Djegu

Signed,

Your secret admirer
Mon 18 Mar 2019 6:43 AM by Druth
Love arguments as "makes sense" in a completely subjective discussion...

The 12 hour timer is not meant as a timer for people who live in DaoC.
Normal people log out, then sleep for 8 hours, go to work for 8 hours, come home and deal with what ever issue their family has conjured up (I suspect my family has a meeting before I come home, where they decide how to mess up my day the most), and finally after 20 hours they can finally sit down and play.

In other words, you play to much DaoC if 12 hour timer is an issue for you.

The realm timer is implemented to help you see your gambling addiction.
Mon 18 Mar 2019 4:59 PM by Kohi
Druth wrote:
Mon 18 Mar 2019 6:43 AM
[...] I suspect my family has a meeting before I come home, where they decide how to mess up my day the most [...]

Damn ! I thought the conspiracy was just against me with my wife taking a holiday each time there was a raid i wanted to join. ;-)
Fun by side, my vision changed a bit about this timer thing, and i think 12h i too short, as too much people switched these days.
Btw, weren't we supposed to have some sort of "realm pride" thing to motivate people to stay on one realm ?
Mon 18 Mar 2019 7:52 PM by milehighblazer
Druth wrote:
Mon 18 Mar 2019 6:43 AM
Love arguments as "makes sense" in a completely subjective discussion...

The 12 hour timer is not meant as a timer for people who live in DaoC.
Normal people log out, then sleep for 8 hours, go to work for 8 hours, come home and deal with what ever issue their family has conjured up (I suspect my family has a meeting before I come home, where they decide how to mess up my day the most), and finally after 20 hours they can finally sit down and play.

In other words, you play to much DaoC if 12 hour timer is an issue for you.

The realm timer is implemented to help you see your gambling addiction.

Right, the timer is essentially 24 hours for most people who have a job or any semblance of a social life. The issue is, if I log into my main and there isn't much going on that I want to do, I don't have the option to maybe hop over to midgard and try out a class i've never played or just familiarize myself with the opposing factions classes. Basically, once I log in, i'm stuck with that choice until the following evening. It's not game breaking, but as someone who is not a part of a big community on my home realm, it's frustrating that I can't just hop over and make an alb stealther to see how they play or solo around a bit. If I can't find a group in a reasonable amount of time or something fun to do with my character, i'm resigned to rolling another toon in that specific realm. I get what you're saying, I just genuinely do not understand what you could do to exploit realm switching if say the timer was 1 hour. What info could you provide? What meleee could I disrupt after an hour timeout, and then hopping on the opposing realm? I don't get it.
Tue 19 Mar 2019 7:59 AM by Druth
milehighblazer wrote:
Mon 18 Mar 2019 7:52 PM
It's not game breaking, but as someone who is not a part of a big community on my home realm, it's frustrating that I can't just hop over and make an alb stealther to see how they play or solo around a bit. If I can't find a group in a reasonable amount of time or something fun to do with my character, i'm resigned to rolling another toon in that specific realm.

It's this very thing they want to discourage.
Form relations in your realm, create action/groups yourself. They want you to get involved in the realm you picked.

It might be a clumsy way of forcing people to get involved, but I think the majority prefers it like that.

And I mean, if they made the timer 1 hour, then what?
You log Mid, find it boring, log out and wait 1 hour. Log back on Alb, find it boring, then log out and log back in Mid and find out the last 2 hours on Mid were excactly what you were looking for, but that the fun had ended 5 mins before you came back on, and that you just wasted 2 hours NOT playing DaoC. Think that be less frustrating?
Tue 19 Mar 2019 9:58 AM by Mac
I've switched realms ONCE since the game went live, I did play all 3 realms in Alpha & Beta, but on live I like to not only stick with one realm for months, I also focus on one main character for months. That said, since I don't switch realms, it won't impact my game play if the timer is reduced to 4 or 8 hours.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 11:19 AM by Eidorf
You need to add another option to the poll - Remove the timer.

I find it annoying, just remove it so I can play what I want, when I want.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 11:21 AM by Ceen
Eidorf wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 11:19 AM
You need to add another option to the poll - Remove the timer.

I find it annoying, just remove it so I can play what I want, when I want.
You are clearly a freeshard rookie
Fri 22 Mar 2019 10:52 AM by FUINY7
Maybe give a token that give the possibility to switch realm instant but only 1 time, and make that token reload once a week or month...
Keep with it the actual timer switch, then it will control the way you want but still allow peoples that want to reroll free instant access to the other side of the game.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 1:18 PM by Mura
Eidorf wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 11:19 AM
You need to add another option to the poll - Remove the timer.

I find it annoying, just remove it so I can play what I want, when I want.

You basically can play what you want when you want already.

Between sleeping and working I have to choose my realm every day when I go to log in.

12 hours is not a very long time, but it's enough to prevent realm hopping if one realm is zerging hard and you want to join the winning realm after being wiped.

I can't really think of a valid reason that 12 hours is too long of a timer to swap realms.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 6:53 PM by worldknown
What does 12 hours give you that 2 or 4 hours doesn't? Lol at the people arguing that 12 hours isn't enough....
Fri 22 Mar 2019 8:22 PM by weewoozesty
I only like all 3 realms for their unique classes that you can't get in any other MMO.

Animist, Bonedancer, Necromancer, Theurgist etc. Class concepts that were and still are unique to DAoC. I find warrior types simply boring to play as every MMO ever has a "Warrior/Armsman/Hero" type class. Every MMO ever has your "Mages" And Rogues/Stealthers/Archers and so on. No MMO that I know of has a class with the unique play style of a Necro, Animist, Theurgist, Bonedancer. I honestly could care less about realm relations. If I have to wait 12 hours to switch when I get burnt out on my current character. So be it, I'll go to bed, play another game and come back.

It's not that big of an issue yet long enough to stop people from crossrealming for nefarious purposes.

3-7 days is just a dumb amount of time for people to wait. It wont encourage loyalty, quite the opposite. It will force people to ban them selves from the game for 3-7 days to be able to switch realms, which is just stupid.

People wanna say this crap about live but it wasnt much of an issue on live back in the day because if you wanted to play on another realm there was a long list of servers to choose from to get what you need.
#logic
Sat 6 Apr 2019 9:04 PM by Warjon
worldknown wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 6:53 PM
What does 12 hours give you that 2 or 4 hours doesn't? Lol at the people arguing that 12 hours isn't enough....

hmmm That is the only question.

My daoc life is adapted to the 12 hr rule. Which realm I choose depends on how the previous log in went. ( one hopes that will change and finding a good guild semi lock one into a realm.) If I log on and choose a wrong realm, for Whatever reason, Im really stuck until after work the next day. Lol I have at times not logged in because I couldn't choose a realm! In the interim time while deciding I found something else to do or play.

So yeah I would like a shorter timer, but how short?
Sun 7 Apr 2019 12:16 AM by lourock
I’m partial to 8 hours myself
Sun 7 Apr 2019 5:57 AM by AngelRose
Druth wrote:
Tue 19 Mar 2019 7:59 AM
milehighblazer wrote:
Mon 18 Mar 2019 7:52 PM
It's not game breaking, but as someone who is not a part of a big community on my home realm, it's frustrating that I can't just hop over and make an alb stealther to see how they play or solo around a bit. If I can't find a group in a reasonable amount of time or something fun to do with my character, i'm resigned to rolling another toon in that specific realm.

It's this very thing they want to discourage.
Form relations in your realm, create action/groups yourself. They want you to get involved in the realm you picked.

It might be a clumsy way of forcing people to get involved, but I think the majority prefers it like that.

And I mean, if they made the timer 1 hour, then what?
You log Mid, find it boring, log out and wait 1 hour. Log back on Alb, find it boring, then log out and log back in Mid and find out the last 2 hours on Mid were excactly what you were looking for, but that the fun had ended 5 mins before you came back on, and that you just wasted 2 hours NOT playing DaoC. Think that be less frustrating?

So what ? How does that hurt you or the game if someone chooses to try different realms in one evening? Seriously..what kind of control freak are you? Very valid points have been made to lower the timer, and not one valid point has been made to keep it so long. 2 hour timer accomplishes everything people want ...to keep realm hopping from hurting the game. There is example after example in this thread as to how it would improve some peoples gaming experience, and your response is just "nope, I don't like it"
Sun 7 Apr 2019 10:53 AM by Druth
AngelRose wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 5:57 AM
Druth wrote:
Tue 19 Mar 2019 7:59 AM
It's this very thing they want to discourage.
Form relations in your realm, create action/groups yourself. They want you to get involved in the realm you picked.

It might be a clumsy way of forcing people to get involved, but I think the majority prefers it like that.

, and your response is just "nope, I don't like it"

Not really sure how you got that from what I wrote.
Guess the discussion could just be boiled down to each side thinking they have valid arguments and the other side only say: "nope, I don't like it".

But I'd rather think both sides have made valid arguments, but none are really strong enough to change anything.
Sun 7 Apr 2019 4:16 PM by Quik
One simple thing always stands out to me on the timer...

In MY opinion the timer should mainly be there to discourage jumping realms to help with relic raids or a massive raid of some sort on another realm so people can't just jump over and take advantage of this. I get this completely and I am fine with it.

People who demand realm loyalty, those are the people hurting the game. Just because YOU want to play one realm all the time, what right do you have to demand others play the same way? This is not a paid game and no physical rewards are given out in any way. Why do people feel they need to FORCE how they play amongst others? Some people enjoy playing all 3 realms and they should be encouraged to do this if that's how they enjoy the game. Let people play how THEY want as long as it doesn't hurt the game, and swapping realms if you aren't having fun on one realm is not hurting the game, it is helping THAT player to stay in the game, albeit on another realm.

Now the people that say 12 hours is no different then 8 hours, this is the stupidest of the arguments. Again, why force a 12 hour timer? If I am playing Mid and I am frustrated that I am not finding a group or just not enjoying the realm, now I have to wait half a day to change. If you want to argue that it is as simple as sleeping and then working and then swapping realms, sure that is fine, unfortunately a LOT of people sleep and don't go right to work, but might like to swap realms on DAoC but they can't. I personally would be inclined to play another game and you risk the chance of losing this player if he gets into another game. Not sure why people think 4 hours is too short, but the only argument against 4 hours is, I don't like it so you shouldn't be able to!. Again, stupid as hell and only hurts the game.

Just like the wonderful QoL features the dev's added in helped the game, dumb little lockouts like this just hurt the game.

Stop trying to FORCE realm loyalty when people haven't even found a realm they really like yet, and stop acting like everyone has the same work schedule as you.

4 hours is more than enough for a lockout in a free to play game that is almost 20 years old that is on its last leg with every new freeshard that releases. Instead of pushing people away, we need to encourage them to play and this is a bad way to make people want to stay. We aren't living in 2001, we are living in a time with thousands of free to play games with no lockouts in PvP because they learned most people don't like it, just the hardcore people who want to force everyone to play there style (you know, 8man and such).

If the game doesn't adapt to 2019, like it was doing in beta slowly but surely, it will become Uth3. Pheonix live has COMPLETELY reversed course from what they said in beta they were going to do that I am wondering if the dev's were replaced?
Sun 7 Apr 2019 8:07 PM by Warjon
Forgive me but I fail to see how a shorter timer hurts those that are "against" it. What does it do to anyone? I would not be for no timer since that could harm those that are into RvR map taking and relic taking.

I guess to me it is just about keeping people in game. Getting them to 50. And then hoping that the options in the frontiers, and with the community, are enough to hold them there. Farming rps, keep & relic taking, 8 man, small man, soloing,... whatever brings them to endgame activities. Road blocks are not an answer. Changing something and the repercussions is to me the only main Dev question.

I do not care to see pots in game. most do. I do not like instances since that caters to the organized over the noobs. I think the community and Guilds need to be more proactive. Some want some flavor of the original DAOC. But All need their bones tossed to them to keep them logging on, so I am not going to hate on anyone's opinion. Hehe I always wonder what possesses a Dev to take on ALL this!!!
Mon 8 Apr 2019 5:15 AM by Druth
Quik wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 4:16 PM
One simple thing always stands out to me on the timer...

In MY opinion the timer should mainly be there to discourage jumping realms to help with relic raids or a massive raid of some sort on another realm so people can't just jump over and take advantage of this. I get this completely and I am fine with it.

People who demand realm loyalty, those are the people hurting the game. Just because YOU want to play one realm all the time, what right do you have to demand others play the same way? This is not a paid game and no physical rewards are given out in any way. Why do people feel they need to FORCE how they play amongst others? Some people enjoy playing all 3 realms and they should be encouraged to do this if that's how they enjoy the game. Let people play how THEY want as long as it doesn't hurt the game, and swapping realms if you aren't having fun on one realm is not hurting the game, it is helping THAT player to stay in the game, albeit on another realm.

Now the people that say 12 hours is no different then 8 hours, this is the stupidest of the arguments. Again, why force a 12 hour timer? If I am playing Mid and I am frustrated that I am not finding a group or just not enjoying the realm, now I have to wait half a day to change. If you want to argue that it is as simple as sleeping and then working and then swapping realms, sure that is fine, unfortunately a LOT of people sleep and don't go right to work, but might like to swap realms on DAoC but they can't. I personally would be inclined to play another game and you risk the chance of losing this player if he gets into another game. Not sure why people think 4 hours is too short, but the only argument against 4 hours is, I don't like it so you shouldn't be able to!. Again, stupid as hell and only hurts the game.

Just like the wonderful QoL features the dev's added in helped the game, dumb little lockouts like this just hurt the game.

Stop trying to FORCE realm loyalty when people haven't even found a realm they really like yet, and stop acting like everyone has the same work schedule as you.

4 hours is more than enough for a lockout in a free to play game that is almost 20 years old that is on its last leg with every new freeshard that releases. Instead of pushing people away, we need to encourage them to play and this is a bad way to make people want to stay. We aren't living in 2001, we are living in a time with thousands of free to play games with no lockouts in PvP because they learned most people don't like it, just the hardcore people who want to force everyone to play there style (you know, 8man and such).

If the game doesn't adapt to 2019, like it was doing in beta slowly but surely, it will become Uth3. Pheonix live has COMPLETELY reversed course from what they said in beta they were going to do that I am wondering if the dev's were replaced?

The most popular PvP game right now is Fortnite.
So running by your logic, removing: Gear (apart from cosmetic), leveling, realms, class difference, and RR's. Would somehow make "DaoC" Phoenix the most popular game in the world.

Or maybe it would not be DaoC anymore?

Thats the problem, you are nit-picking things you personally wants changed, and calling the server "old-fashion" (not litterally) and not up to date with current gaming world. But when do you stop changing it to current gaming world???
Pay to win?
DaoC's whole core system of PvP making you even better in PvP is outdated, as is the system of unique realms.

So are you sure you want to push the agenda of a more "modern" game?


To accomodate the new generation of realm-bunnies, the server took the jump from 7 days on Uthgard, to 8 hours here. That's a 95% reduction in timer...
I sleep 7-8 hours/night, so even on weekends a new day would allow me to play another realm.
Classic DaoC didn't even allow realm switch on a server you already played on!


And finally realm pride... it's more than just staying in your realm of choice. It's about avoiding people becoming friends with opponents, and then have the situations where you don't help your own realm, because "sorry he's my friend".
That stuff drives away more casuals than them realising they have to sleep before they can change realms.
I don't have any data supporting my above claim, just like no one else has any data supprting realm timer is driving away more people than it keeps.
Mon 8 Apr 2019 5:25 AM by Kohi
Druth wrote:
Mon 8 Apr 2019 5:15 AM
[...]

To accomodate the new generation of realm-bunnies, the server took the jump from 7 days on Uthgard, to 8 hours here. That's a 95% reduction in timer...
I sleep 7-8 hours/night, so even on weekends a new day would allow me to play another realm.
Classic DaoC didn't even allow realm switch on a server you already played on!

And finally realm pride... it's more than just staying in your realm of choice. It's about avoiding people becoming friends with opponents, and then have the situations where you don't help your own realm, because "sorry he's my friend".
That stuff drives away more casuals than them realising they have to sleep before they can change realms.
I don't have any data supporting my above claim, just like no one else has any data supprting realm timer is driving away more people than it keeps.

Agree with a lot of things said here.

PS : Love the term 'realm-bunnies' May i use it too, or is it @Druth ? ^^
Mon 8 Apr 2019 5:37 AM by Druth
Kohi wrote:
Mon 8 Apr 2019 5:25 AM
PS : Love the term 'realm-bunnies' May i use it too, or is it @Druth ? ^^

Use it at your hearts delight. Just sounded better than realm-jumpers...
Mon 8 Apr 2019 6:48 AM by AngelRose
Druth wrote:
Mon 8 Apr 2019 5:15 AM
Quik wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 4:16 PM
One simple thing always stands out to me on the timer...

In MY opinion the timer should mainly be there to discourage jumping realms to help with relic raids or a massive raid of some sort on another realm so people can't just jump over and take advantage of this. I get this completely and I am fine with it.

People who demand realm loyalty, those are the people hurting the game. Just because YOU want to play one realm all the time, what right do you have to demand others play the same way? This is not a paid game and no physical rewards are given out in any way. Why do people feel they need to FORCE how they play amongst others? Some people enjoy playing all 3 realms and they should be encouraged to do this if that's how they enjoy the game. Let people play how THEY want as long as it doesn't hurt the game, and swapping realms if you aren't having fun on one realm is not hurting the game, it is helping THAT player to stay in the game, albeit on another realm.

Now the people that say 12 hours is no different then 8 hours, this is the stupidest of the arguments. Again, why force a 12 hour timer? If I am playing Mid and I am frustrated that I am not finding a group or just not enjoying the realm, now I have to wait half a day to change. If you want to argue that it is as simple as sleeping and then working and then swapping realms, sure that is fine, unfortunately a LOT of people sleep and don't go right to work, but might like to swap realms on DAoC but they can't. I personally would be inclined to play another game and you risk the chance of losing this player if he gets into another game. Not sure why people think 4 hours is too short, but the only argument against 4 hours is, I don't like it so you shouldn't be able to!. Again, stupid as hell and only hurts the game.

Just like the wonderful QoL features the dev's added in helped the game, dumb little lockouts like this just hurt the game.

Stop trying to FORCE realm loyalty when people haven't even found a realm they really like yet, and stop acting like everyone has the same work schedule as you.

4 hours is more than enough for a lockout in a free to play game that is almost 20 years old that is on its last leg with every new freeshard that releases. Instead of pushing people away, we need to encourage them to play and this is a bad way to make people want to stay. We aren't living in 2001, we are living in a time with thousands of free to play games with no lockouts in PvP because they learned most people don't like it, just the hardcore people who want to force everyone to play there style (you know, 8man and such).

If the game doesn't adapt to 2019, like it was doing in beta slowly but surely, it will become Uth3. Pheonix live has COMPLETELY reversed course from what they said in beta they were going to do that I am wondering if the dev's were replaced?

The most popular PvP game right now is Fortnite.
So running by your logic, removing: Gear (apart from cosmetic), leveling, realms, class difference, and RR's. Would somehow make "DaoC" Phoenix the most popular game in the world.

Or maybe it would not be DaoC anymore?

Thats the problem, you are nit-picking things you personally wants changed, and calling the server "old-fashion" (not litterally) and not up to date with current gaming world. But when do you stop changing it to current gaming world???
Pay to win?
DaoC's whole core system of PvP making you even better in PvP is outdated, as is the system of unique realms.

So are you sure you want to push the agenda of a more "modern" game?


To accomodate the new generation of realm-bunnies, the server took the jump from 7 days on Uthgard, to 8 hours here. That's a 95% reduction in timer...
I sleep 7-8 hours/night, so even on weekends a new day would allow me to play another realm.
Classic DaoC didn't even allow realm switch on a server you already played on!


And finally realm pride... it's more than just staying in your realm of choice. It's about avoiding people becoming friends with opponents, and then have the situations where you don't help your own realm, because "sorry he's my friend".
That stuff drives away more casuals than them realising they have to sleep before they can change realms.
I don't have any data supporting my above claim, just like no one else has any data supprting realm timer is driving away more people than it keeps.
In summary - there is no valid reason, besides you don't think it should happen. You can type out pages, but you keep repeating yourself.

Plus, 'back in they day', you couldn't play different realms on the same server, but you could play all the realms due to server choice. That is not an option here. I would like to play hib, but due to friends, I started on Mid. My friends play sportatcially, so I would love an opportunity to level on hib when they are not on. I only have a few hours a night to play. If, I log on to mid and they are not on...I am stuck. If I get a day off and log on to hib to level, thinking my friends are not playing..then they message me they will be on later, I am not able to join them.

There is absolutely no difference between a 2 hour time and a 12 hour time when it comes to how it affects realm jumping. It just makes 'for the realm' people happy. And, to be blunt, I don't play to make them happy. Best thing about DAOC was all the options among the 3 realms...options we ALL had since the game began. Even when live had to start merging, they realized locking people out of realms was a bad idea.
Mon 8 Apr 2019 7:08 AM by Sepplord
AngelRose wrote:
Mon 8 Apr 2019 6:48 AM
In summary - there is no valid reason, besides you don't think it should happen. You can type out pages, but you keep repeating yourself.

Plus, 'back in they day', you couldn't play different realms on the same server, but you could play all the realms due to server choice. That is not an option here. I would like to play hib, but due to friends, I started on Mid. My friends play sportatcially, so I would love an opportunity to level on hib when they are not on. I only have a few hours a night to play. If, I log on to mid and they are not on...I am stuck. If I get a day off and log on to hib to level, thinking my friends are not playing..then they message me they will be on later, I am not able to join them.

There is absolutely no difference between a 2 hour time and a 12 hour time when it comes to how it affects realm jumping. It just makes 'for the realm' people happy. And, to be blunt, I don't play to make them happy. Best thing about DAOC was all the options among the 3 realms...options we ALL had since the game began. Even when live had to start merging, they realized locking people out of realms was a bad idea.

WTF he gave an actual reason and you just dismiss everything as "you think it should not happen". Especially since it basically hits the nail on the head with your description of friends in a different realm.

There is also a bit of irony in telling others that they are just repeating themselves, when i couldn't find any argument that had not already been made in your post.Also reading your other comments, you are very hypocritical and plain rude to anyone who is not in agreement with your own perspective. Throwing around insults like control freaks and overdramatizing your posts with rightousness is not helping your argument. Quite the contrary


To put it in your words:
In summary - you have given no valid reason besides you think it should happen.

So, does that feel like a fair summary of your comment to you? Do you think summarizing your comment like that is wrong? Take that feeling and remember it the next time you want to dismiss someone elses opinion just because it doesn't support your own agenda.
Mon 8 Apr 2019 7:33 AM by Druth
AngelRose wrote:
Mon 8 Apr 2019 6:48 AM
In summary - there is no valid reason, besides you don't think it should happen. You can type out pages, but you keep repeating yourself.

Plus, 'back in they day', you couldn't play different realms on the same server, but you could play all the realms due to server choice. That is not an option here. I would like to play hib, but due to friends, I started on Mid. My friends play sportatcially, so I would love an opportunity to level on hib when they are not on. I only have a few hours a night to play. If, I log on to mid and they are not on...I am stuck. If I get a day off and log on to hib to level, thinking my friends are not playing..then they message me they will be on later, I am not able to join them.

There is absolutely no difference between a 2 hour time and a 12 hour time when it comes to how it affects realm jumping. It just makes 'for the realm' people happy. And, to be blunt, I don't play to make them happy. Best thing about DAOC was all the options among the 3 realms...options we ALL had since the game began. Even when live had to start merging, they realized locking people out of realms was a bad idea.

Ironically your reason to lower timer, is my reason to keep it, or even increase it (but I like the compromise of 8 hours between "never and instant".
Make your friends in Hib instead? I mean, why not combine the best of two worlds, your favorite realm and friends playing said realm? If the realm timer is ruining your experience this much, at least consider changing your own approach instead of demanding the server changes.
It's not that I don't understand why you'd prefer playing with your friends, we all prefer playing with people we like.
I just don't understand why you can't comprehend the repercussions of lowering the timer, and I also don't understand why you don't change how you play the game and instead want the game to change.

One thing I do agree on is that I am repeating myself (with variations), but so are you. Two sides circle-jerking.
That you think your point is somehow more valid, and has multiple facets, is only because we (yes, I include myself) humans are immensely biased and have a really hard time seeing we might be wrong on some points.


And the reason why Live allowed people to play several realms when they merged servers, was because they forced the merging and specifically hurt the players playing RP servers. People who had picked RP servers, and could enjoy tasting all 3 realms, now suddenly lost 2/3rd of their chars. Even people playing Nimue, that were desperate for more players, hated the merge because they now had to pick a realm.
And so they allowed players to play all realms. I still think that it was a bad move, because in a RvR game it's very bad to have friends who you don't attack, or even worse, help in 3 way fights.

The situation here is that you came here KNOWING there was a timer, so it was your own problem if you wanted to play several realms. They never retroactively forced you to pick a realm.
Mon 8 Apr 2019 3:17 PM by nastrand
My problem is I am a streamer and I have IRL friends and Online friends on all 3 realms. I am just going to play each side possibly a week at a time I guess because so far finding out which friends are on that particular night during my stream time (which is basically while my wife is at college) pretty much forces my selection and knowing if my IRL friends are going to be available during the stream is my burden for the 12 hour switch. I personally wish it was 4 hours or less. But everyone has their own reasons and opinions and I am cool with that.

I am all for realm pride and I understand why the timer is there. Everyone would be Mid (because it is the group friendliest realm). Adult lives get in the way of connecting with other Adults and being locked in after clicking the Hammer cause I logged in first to find out those friends are not on that night is very limiting.

I do not have a solution to prevent people from "spying" other than:
(1) possibly do not allow teleport to RvR zones if swapping sides for 1-4 hours.
(2) Only allow PvE. Keep 12 hour timer for PvP swaps if you want that to still be a thing.
(3) Do not allow /who or region or advice if swapping for 1-4 hours or whatever channels are deemed as "spyable from"

like I said I am not sure how to limit the spying but devs think of stuff like this all day so maybe something will pop into their heads from all of our ideas. Some of my ideas has flaws in them i know but just giving devs ideas to build on. they probably will stick to 12 hours but i just wanted to drop my opinions as well from my own perspective and point of view.

-Nasty
Mon 8 Apr 2019 8:32 PM by Quik
Druth wrote:
Mon 8 Apr 2019 5:15 AM
Quik wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 4:16 PM
One simple thing always stands out to me on the timer...

In MY opinion the timer should mainly be there to discourage jumping realms to help with relic raids or a massive raid of some sort on another realm so people can't just jump over and take advantage of this. I get this completely and I am fine with it.

People who demand realm loyalty, those are the people hurting the game. Just because YOU want to play one realm all the time, what right do you have to demand others play the same way? This is not a paid game and no physical rewards are given out in any way. Why do people feel they need to FORCE how they play amongst others? Some people enjoy playing all 3 realms and they should be encouraged to do this if that's how they enjoy the game. Let people play how THEY want as long as it doesn't hurt the game, and swapping realms if you aren't having fun on one realm is not hurting the game, it is helping THAT player to stay in the game, albeit on another realm.

Now the people that say 12 hours is no different then 8 hours, this is the stupidest of the arguments. Again, why force a 12 hour timer? If I am playing Mid and I am frustrated that I am not finding a group or just not enjoying the realm, now I have to wait half a day to change. If you want to argue that it is as simple as sleeping and then working and then swapping realms, sure that is fine, unfortunately a LOT of people sleep and don't go right to work, but might like to swap realms on DAoC but they can't. I personally would be inclined to play another game and you risk the chance of losing this player if he gets into another game. Not sure why people think 4 hours is too short, but the only argument against 4 hours is, I don't like it so you shouldn't be able to!. Again, stupid as hell and only hurts the game.

Just like the wonderful QoL features the dev's added in helped the game, dumb little lockouts like this just hurt the game.

Stop trying to FORCE realm loyalty when people haven't even found a realm they really like yet, and stop acting like everyone has the same work schedule as you.

4 hours is more than enough for a lockout in a free to play game that is almost 20 years old that is on its last leg with every new freeshard that releases. Instead of pushing people away, we need to encourage them to play and this is a bad way to make people want to stay. We aren't living in 2001, we are living in a time with thousands of free to play games with no lockouts in PvP because they learned most people don't like it, just the hardcore people who want to force everyone to play there style (you know, 8man and such).

If the game doesn't adapt to 2019, like it was doing in beta slowly but surely, it will become Uth3. Pheonix live has COMPLETELY reversed course from what they said in beta they were going to do that I am wondering if the dev's were replaced?

The most popular PvP game right now is Fortnite.
So running by your logic, removing: Gear (apart from cosmetic), leveling, realms, class difference, and RR's. Would somehow make "DaoC" Phoenix the most popular game in the world.

Or maybe it would not be DaoC anymore?

Thats the problem, you are nit-picking things you personally wants changed, and calling the server "old-fashion" (not litterally) and not up to date with current gaming world. But when do you stop changing it to current gaming world???
Pay to win?
DaoC's whole core system of PvP making you even better in PvP is outdated, as is the system of unique realms.

So are you sure you want to push the agenda of a more "modern" game?


To accomodate the new generation of realm-bunnies, the server took the jump from 7 days on Uthgard, to 8 hours here. That's a 95% reduction in timer...
I sleep 7-8 hours/night, so even on weekends a new day would allow me to play another realm.
Classic DaoC didn't even allow realm switch on a server you already played on!


And finally realm pride... it's more than just staying in your realm of choice. It's about avoiding people becoming friends with opponents, and then have the situations where you don't help your own realm, because "sorry he's my friend".
That stuff drives away more casuals than them realising they have to sleep before they can change realms.
I don't have any data supporting my above claim, just like no one else has any data supprting realm timer is driving away more people than it keeps.

So the highlighted part I'm not sure what you are even referring to? I never mentioned anything about gear or fortnite and my logic never even hinted at that? Ya really lost me. I love gear based games and leveling and anything else loot based or rpg based. I keep reading what I wrote and I am STILL trying to figure out what you are referring to? I am talking about the realm timer here and nothing else....

The realm timer dropping from 1 week to 12 hours or 8 hours might be a 95% drop, but seriously, I still haven't heard a decent argument that says the timer needs to be more than 2 or 4 hours other than realm pride junkies. The only argument for a delay in jumping realms that makes sense, and I already mentioned it, is to discourage raid or relic jumping, and I am all for that, but a 4 hour timer is still more than enough to accommodate this argument.

And for realm pride, I get your argument, but the friends I have in the game know who I am on different realms and we tend to go after each other harder for LOL claims. I am not against realm pride at all and I encourage it when you find a realm you enjoy being on, but those people that say realm pride should stop you from switching realms, those are the people hurting the game by forcing the way they want to play on others. If someone is new and plays Mid, then decides they want to switch and try Hib or Alb, the 12 hour timer is a bit discouraging, but if they don't like the realm and want to try again, it becomes irritating as hell.

Realm pride is fine but again, having a 12 hour timer or a 4 hour timer does nothing to help or discourage realm pride.

And as for classic DAoC and only being 1 realm, yes that is true, but of course I could switch to a different server in a amatter of minutes if I wanted to play a different realm, it really has no bearing here on Pheonix.

Druth I respect a lot of your opinions on here, but where in the world did you get that I want DAoC to be like Fortnite? Because I mentioned it needs to adapt? It does need to adapt but not to that degree and I never said it did. The adapting I am talking about is simply making the game to everyone today including those with short attention spans or who like to play a variety of classes of realms. Games now don't pigeon hole you into a specific place like they used to, most games are trying to give you more and more options. Fornite shouldn't even be mentioned in the same category since it is strictly a shooter, DAoC is a realm unto itself.
Mon 8 Apr 2019 9:35 PM by Druth
Quik wrote:
Mon 8 Apr 2019 8:32 PM
Quik wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 4:16 PM
4 hours is more than enough for a lockout in a free to play game that is almost 20 years old that is on its last leg with every new freeshard that releases. Instead of pushing people away, we need to encourage them to play and this is a bad way to make people want to stay. We aren't living in 2001, we are living in a time with thousands of free to play games with no lockouts in PvP because they learned most people don't like it, just the hardcore people who want to force everyone to play there style (you know, 8man and such).

If the game doesn't adapt to 2019, like it was doing in beta slowly but surely, it will become Uth3. Pheonix live has COMPLETELY reversed course from what they said in beta they were going to do that I am wondering if the dev's were replaced?

Druth I respect a lot of your opinions on here, but where in the world did you get that I want DAoC to be like Fortnite? Because I mentioned it needs to adapt? It does need to adapt but not to that degree and I never said it did. The adapting I am talking about is simply making the game to everyone today including those with short attention spans or who like to play a variety of classes of realms. Games now don't pigeon hole you into a specific place like they used to, most games are trying to give you more and more options. Fornite shouldn't even be mentioned in the same category since it is strictly a shooter, DAoC is a realm unto itself.

The above part.

Yes, there are many free to play PvP games, like Fortnite.
Their success is not due to no realm timer, it's a multitude of things. One thing being that in games like Fortnite there is no grind, and no ranks making others better.
So I read "adapting to 2019" as making Phoenix modern, and the most modern PvP game is Fortnite.

You single out realm timer as that one thing that will enhance Phoenix, but I think you are strongly affected by the perception of what you personally want, and not what the server needs.

I personally believe a good server comes from a strong unity within realms (realm-pride), and you likely believe it comes from a strong server unity.
It's not that I don't think the later is important, just that the former is more important.
And just as you think not being able to change realm easy, I think even being able to change realm (without deleting chars) is harmful to the server.
In the best of worlds there'd be 3 servers, and 3 times the number of people wanting to play classic DaoC, that way there'd be no need for the option of changing realms.
But there is not, and thus (to me personally) the half a day of timer seems like a fine solution.
Mon 8 Apr 2019 9:46 PM by milehighblazer
Druth wrote:
Mon 8 Apr 2019 5:15 AM
Quik wrote:
Sun 7 Apr 2019 4:16 PM
One simple thing always stands out to me on the timer...

In MY opinion the timer should mainly be there to discourage jumping realms to help with relic raids or a massive raid of some sort on another realm so people can't just jump over and take advantage of this. I get this completely and I am fine with it.

People who demand realm loyalty, those are the people hurting the game. Just because YOU want to play one realm all the time, what right do you have to demand others play the same way? This is not a paid game and no physical rewards are given out in any way. Why do people feel they need to FORCE how they play amongst others? Some people enjoy playing all 3 realms and they should be encouraged to do this if that's how they enjoy the game. Let people play how THEY want as long as it doesn't hurt the game, and swapping realms if you aren't having fun on one realm is not hurting the game, it is helping THAT player to stay in the game, albeit on another realm.

Now the people that say 12 hours is no different then 8 hours, this is the stupidest of the arguments. Again, why force a 12 hour timer? If I am playing Mid and I am frustrated that I am not finding a group or just not enjoying the realm, now I have to wait half a day to change. If you want to argue that it is as simple as sleeping and then working and then swapping realms, sure that is fine, unfortunately a LOT of people sleep and don't go right to work, but might like to swap realms on DAoC but they can't. I personally would be inclined to play another game and you risk the chance of losing this player if he gets into another game. Not sure why people think 4 hours is too short, but the only argument against 4 hours is, I don't like it so you shouldn't be able to!. Again, stupid as hell and only hurts the game.

Just like the wonderful QoL features the dev's added in helped the game, dumb little lockouts like this just hurt the game.

Stop trying to FORCE realm loyalty when people haven't even found a realm they really like yet, and stop acting like everyone has the same work schedule as you.

4 hours is more than enough for a lockout in a free to play game that is almost 20 years old that is on its last leg with every new freeshard that releases. Instead of pushing people away, we need to encourage them to play and this is a bad way to make people want to stay. We aren't living in 2001, we are living in a time with thousands of free to play games with no lockouts in PvP because they learned most people don't like it, just the hardcore people who want to force everyone to play there style (you know, 8man and such).

If the game doesn't adapt to 2019, like it was doing in beta slowly but surely, it will become Uth3. Pheonix live has COMPLETELY reversed course from what they said in beta they were going to do that I am wondering if the dev's were replaced?

The most popular PvP game right now is Fortnite.
So running by your logic, removing: Gear (apart from cosmetic), leveling, realms, class difference, and RR's. Would somehow make "DaoC" Phoenix the most popular game in the world.

Or maybe it would not be DaoC anymore?

Thats the problem, you are nit-picking things you personally wants changed, and calling the server "old-fashion" (not litterally) and not up to date with current gaming world. But when do you stop changing it to current gaming world???
Pay to win?
DaoC's whole core system of PvP making you even better in PvP is outdated, as is the system of unique realms.

So are you sure you want to push the agenda of a more "modern" game?


To accomodate the new generation of realm-bunnies, the server took the jump from 7 days on Uthgard, to 8 hours here. That's a 95% reduction in timer...
I sleep 7-8 hours/night, so even on weekends a new day would allow me to play another realm.
Classic DaoC didn't even allow realm switch on a server you already played on!


And finally realm pride... it's more than just staying in your realm of choice. It's about avoiding people becoming friends with opponents, and then have the situations where you don't help your own realm, because "sorry he's my friend".
That stuff drives away more casuals than them realising they have to sleep before they can change realms.
I don't have any data supporting my above claim, just like no one else has any data supprting realm timer is driving away more people than it keeps.


You could literally have near limitless characters of any realm, at any time on live by switching servers. Phoenix obviously doesn't have the population to support more than one.

Is that a serious concern of your's, the "sorry he's my friend" scenario? You're saying someone is going to engage in a fight, notice its his lurikeen buddy then /sit and become a conscience observer? That seems pretty hard to buy.

Also, what's wrong with making friends on all of the realms? It allows you to be a part of a small group of buddies, while on another realm you might be a part of a large PvP or raiding guild. The thing about realm "pride" is that you aren't going to convert people like me to buy into that. I am going to play every realm regardless, the timer just makes it a giant pain in my ass and honestly causes me to log less hours in game. Boo hoo for me, I know, but I know I'm not the only one. How does the realm pride faction even know which of their fellow compatriots are loyal and not splitting time on another realm? I am not trying to be rude at all, I just don't see the drawbacks of a 1-2 hour timer. You couldn't do any sort of relevant recon/affect any fights, and you encourage people to stay logged in more often.
Mon 8 Apr 2019 9:58 PM by Quik
Druth wrote:
Mon 8 Apr 2019 9:35 PM
Yes, there are many free to play PvP games, like Fortnite.
Their success is not due to no realm timer, it's a multitude of things. One thing being that in games like Fortnite there is no grind, and no ranks making others better.
So I read "adapting to 2019" as making Phoenix modern, and the most modern PvP game is Fortnite.

You single out realm timer as that one thing that will enhance Phoenix, but I think you are strongly affected by the perception of what you personally want, and not what the server needs.

I personally believe a good server comes from a strong unity within realms (realm-pride), and you likely believe it comes from a strong server unity.
It's not that I don't think the later is important, just that the former is more important.
And just as you think not being able to change realm easy, I think even being able to change realm (without deleting chars) is harmful to the server.
In the best of worlds there'd be 3 servers, and 3 times the number of people wanting to play classic DaoC, that way there'd be no need for the option of changing realms.
But there is not, and thus (to me personally) the half a day of timer seems like a fine solution.

Fortnite never even entered my mind. I was more thinking RPG Online games like ESO or the coming CU, nothing like straight shooters.

And I never singled out the realm timer, I was simply responding to the realm timer since that is what this thread is all about. I have other threads talking about removing pots, removing ports, and other things that I personally think are hurting the game more. I just think the realm dumber is a dumb idea that does more harm than good.
Mon 8 Apr 2019 10:32 PM by AngelRose
How dare you not want to play with strangers, as opposed to friends you have had for years!!
Tue 9 Apr 2019 10:08 AM by Druth
Quik wrote:
Mon 8 Apr 2019 9:58 PM
Fortnite never even entered my mind. I was more thinking RPG Online games like ESO or the coming CU, nothing like straight shooters.

And I never singled out the realm timer, I was simply responding to the realm timer since that is what this thread is all about. I have other threads talking about removing pots, removing ports, and other things that I personally think are hurting the game more. I just think the realm dumber is a dumb idea that does more harm than good.

My bad then.
Never played ESO, and don't know the dynamic of realms/timer.
Tue 9 Apr 2019 10:15 AM by Druth
milehighblazer wrote:
Mon 8 Apr 2019 9:46 PM
You could literally have near limitless characters of any realm, at any time on live by switching servers. Phoenix obviously doesn't have the population to support more than one.

Is that a serious concern of your's, the "sorry he's my friend" scenario? You're saying someone is going to engage in a fight, notice its his lurikeen buddy then /sit and become a conscience observer? That seems pretty hard to buy.

Also, what's wrong with making friends on all of the realms? It allows you to be a part of a small group of buddies, while on another realm you might be a part of a large PvP or raiding guild. The thing about realm "pride" is that you aren't going to convert people like me to buy into that. I am going to play every realm regardless, the timer just makes it a giant pain in my ass and honestly causes me to log less hours in game. Boo hoo for me, I know, but I know I'm not the only one. How does the realm pride faction even know which of their fellow compatriots are loyal and not splitting time on another realm? I am not trying to be rude at all, I just don't see the drawbacks of a 1-2 hour timer. You couldn't do any sort of relevant recon/affect any fights, and you encourage people to stay logged in more often.

The point is that it was on different servers.

And it's more than just random encounters, it's a broad sense of caring about your realm, and the people there. Example was not wanting to fight friends, but it could also be repairing gates, running raids despite being fully geared, or simply helping out people who you know will in time help you form groups easier.

But it's really pointless, as you say you can't see the drawbacks, so no real point trying to explain it.
Tue 9 Apr 2019 10:17 AM by Druth
AngelRose wrote:
Mon 8 Apr 2019 10:32 PM
How dare you not want to play with strangers, as opposed to friends you have had for years!!

Pick the right realm, and play with your friends to your hearts delight.

Ohh... you just wanted to make an exaggerated drama post? I get it, funny.
Tue 9 Apr 2019 10:06 PM by stridberg
I'm absolutely itching to see Hibernia again. If the timer was down to something like 8 hours it would become possible to play a different realm in the morning, come home from work and be available for your main realm in the evening.
It's a shame, but we can't have everything.
Thu 18 Apr 2019 3:13 PM by Tillbeast
None of my friends who played DAoC 15 odd years were interested in restarting again. I have made characters mids side and have several 50's already template etc. Found out they all started up again but on Hibernia the plonkers and I am far to invested in mid to just let go of my characters and they all want to play hib as they played mids ages back and wanted a change. Never really thought about the realm switch timer, it was eventually removed back on live but would be nice to be able to join them for a few hours without being locked out for 12 hours.
Sun 21 Apr 2019 1:43 AM by Dramead
Seems 4hr is getting the vote.. Now we get to see if the devs here are different from the Uthgard devs. Will they listen to their players or be like them .
Mon 22 Apr 2019 2:47 PM by PingGuy
The devs here have listened to plenty of things, it's not like they suddenly become jerks for not bending to the will of the players 100% of the time.
Mon 22 Apr 2019 9:16 PM by Sepplord
Dramead wrote:
Sun 21 Apr 2019 1:43 AM
Seems 4hr is getting the vote.. Now we get to see if the devs here are different from the Uthgard devs. Will they listen to their players or be like them .

Ugghh...
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:54 PM by Quik
PingGuy wrote:
Mon 22 Apr 2019 2:47 PM
The devs here have listened to plenty of things, it's not like they suddenly become jerks for not bending to the will of the players 100% of the time.

I'm at a complete loss on what they listen too...

They ask for a vote on porting and a majority vote against it (small margin but still majority) but they keep ports anyway.

They don't allow streaming without 10 min delay but then a small amount of players want the no delay stream and I still saw more people say no, they still decide to allow it even though I still saw a majority say they did not want it.

Not sure who they are listening too, but it isn't a majority of players here on the forums trying to give ideas =(
Tue 23 Apr 2019 2:05 PM by djegu
Quik wrote:
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:54 PM
PingGuy wrote:
Mon 22 Apr 2019 2:47 PM
The devs here have listened to plenty of things, it's not like they suddenly become jerks for not bending to the will of the players 100% of the time.

I'm at a complete loss on what they listen too...

They ask for a vote on porting and a majority vote against it (small margin but still majority) but they keep ports anyway.

They don't allow streaming without 10 min delay but then a small amount of players want the no delay stream and I still saw more people say no, they still decide to allow it even though I still saw a majority say they did not want it.

Not sure who they are listening too, but it isn't a majority of players here on the forums trying to give ideas =(

Luckily they are smart enough to not only listen to people on the forum who doesn't represent the majority of player but most of the time only the whiners
Tue 23 Apr 2019 3:07 PM by PingGuy
Quik wrote:
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:54 PM
PingGuy wrote:
Mon 22 Apr 2019 2:47 PM
The devs here have listened to plenty of things, it's not like they suddenly become jerks for not bending to the will of the players 100% of the time.

I'm at a complete loss on what they listen too...

They ask for a vote on porting and a majority vote against it (small margin but still majority) but they keep ports anyway.

They don't allow streaming without 10 min delay but then a small amount of players want the no delay stream and I still saw more people say no, they still decide to allow it even though I still saw a majority say they did not want it.

Not sure who they are listening too, but it isn't a majority of players here on the forums trying to give ideas =(

This isn't a democracy, they still get to decide what makes sense. Listening means they took what was said and considered it. Sometimes they will agree, sometimes they will disagree. The vote on porting was too close to give them any good options. They put the level 40 limit on it and a 2 minute timer and hoped that bridged the gap. I think it dealt with some of the worst of the issues, while not chasing off those who really supported having ports. It was a better decision than removing the ports. If the vote was 80/20 it would be much more clear cut.

Off the top of my head, these are things they listened to:

Assassin's Poisons being overpowered
Nobody liked the ball-carry mechanic
Phoenix Eggs needed a boost at launch
Trying to focus the FZ's more on keep takes/defense
Spreading the task over all the FZ's to break up the zerg

I would put porting on that list too, because they did listen, and chose not to piss off one half to satisfy the other. For the streaming delay, they listened again, and determined that the reasons they were holding out for weren't as important as they thought. For archers, they listened, but haven't been able to come up with a good solution yet.

I remember when you quit Phoenix over the porting, so I know where you stand and why you think they don't listen. I'll say the same thing to you as I do to the people who whine about easy task RP gains... get over it. Some things just need to exist to keep the game rolling. Porting is one of those things. I would hope that you could find a way to still enjoy Phoenix with them in place, but I understand if you can't. Not wishing for anybody to leave, but don't want unhappy people to stay either.
Mon 27 May 2019 10:22 PM by Taliveth
I'm a new Phoenix player (like 2 days) and When DAoC began, I started on Tristan as ALB. Then EA came and all the server switches, I ended up on whatever the Co-Op server was because I always hated RVR. (Gwaine, I think)

In that light, I hate the timer. I fully understand and appreciate it's reasoning and effects. If only there were a co-op server for those who couldn't care less about killing other realms. (One on one dueling is always cool, though.) One benefit of the co-op server is being able to try out all the different races and classes to see which one you like the best, without being accused of cross-realming.

My opinion on the length of the timer to keep rvr cross-realming because of zergs? How long does a zerg take? I think any delay will upset those who want to switch teams. 1-2 hours is plenty.

And ANOTHER thing! The rules and programming that sniff out cross-realmers should be more sophisticated than being at the same location playing the game. What if I play at the library? The rule totally sucks in that respect.
Mon 27 May 2019 10:59 PM by stinsfire
Taliveth wrote:
Mon 27 May 2019 10:22 PM
I'm a new Phoenix player (like 2 days) and When DAoC began, I started on Tristan as ALB. Then EA came and all the server switches, I ended up on whatever the Co-Op server was because I always hated RVR. (Gwaine, I think)

In that light, I hate the timer. I fully understand and appreciate it's reasoning and effects. If only there were a co-op server for those who couldn't care less about killing other realms. (One on one dueling is always cool, though.) One benefit of the co-op server is being able to try out all the different races and classes to see which one you like the best, without being accused of cross-realming.

My opinion on the length of the timer to keep rvr cross-realming because of zergs? How long does a zerg take? I think any delay will upset those who want to switch teams. 1-2 hours is plenty.

And ANOTHER thing! The rules and programming that sniff out cross-realmers should be more sophisticated than being at the same location playing the game. What if I play at the library? The rule totally sucks in that respect.

What are they supposed to do if you login with a different account from a different PC from a different IP?
Tue 28 May 2019 2:33 AM by Taliveth
stinsfire wrote:
Mon 27 May 2019 10:59 PM
Taliveth wrote:
Mon 27 May 2019 10:22 PM
I'm a new Phoenix player (like 2 days) and When DAoC began, I started on Tristan as ALB. Then EA came and all the server switches, I ended up on whatever the Co-Op server was because I always hated RVR. (Gwaine, I think)

In that light, I hate the timer. I fully understand and appreciate it's reasoning and effects. If only there were a co-op server for those who couldn't care less about killing other realms. (One on one dueling is always cool, though.) One benefit of the co-op server is being able to try out all the different races and classes to see which one you like the best, without being accused of cross-realming.

My opinion on the length of the timer to keep rvr cross-realming because of zergs? How long does a zerg take? I think any delay will upset those who want to switch teams. 1-2 hours is plenty.

And ANOTHER thing! The rules and programming that sniff out cross-realmers should be more sophisticated than being at the same location playing the game. What if I play at the library? The rule totally sucks in that respect.

What are they supposed to do if you login with a different account from a different PC from a different IP?

I'm guessing you have done this or this was done with your awareness and it peeved you. Since this is typically how people get online and play, because that is how the login process works, I guess you have to change up the login process. You could make the player fill out more than an email address to register. If the same birthdate and same name comes up, well, that would be a good time to flag for cross realming if that player chooses to switch frequently. If not, what is the problem again?
Tue 28 May 2019 2:52 AM by Taliveth
People have different play styles and habits. There are ways to tell if it is the same person other than location. My son is 28 years younger than me and he likes to play certain characters I don't like and I like characters he finds he doesn't like. We often find ourselves on different realms because of this style difference. Once in a while, we like to play together (and why not, we are family?) and so we go level up a new character together or play a dungeon together. I really don't see why that kind of behavior would cause a player to be banned. Sure cross realming (the same person playing both sides) is distasteful and IMO cheating, but playing at the same location shouldn't cause a program to flag you for cross realming. I've played at the library before because of internet issues at home. What about playing at Starbucks and such places. You can't police every situation and be fair to those who play by the rules. I'm just pointing out that unfairness. I hope there is eventually resources to improve fairness, whether changing code or starting a co-op server. I'm fine with playing by the rules as they are, but mistakes and miscommunication happen. I'm sure when me and my son are both too tired to remember the communication part, we will get a ban. It will happen eventually because I like ALB and he likes Mid. OH WELL. There are other servers and other games to play on. This wasn't my first love and won't be my last. But it sure feels good to play something you've played for so many years.
Tue 28 May 2019 3:09 AM by Yokahu
We need a timer but not a long one, maybe 2 hours is good enough.
1) I don’t want people that I killed to log into my realm to trash talk me.
2) 2 hrs is long enough to prevent enemy realms on taking advantage about plans like relic raid or the fact that an epic dungeon raid will be forming and players will be busy in PvE for an hour or so.
3) Players with realm pride will not switch regardless, the rest of the players find that outdated.
Tue 28 May 2019 4:51 PM by Stoertebecker
Yokahu wrote:
Tue 28 May 2019 3:09 AM
3) Players with realm pride will not switch regardless, the rest of the players find that outdated.

And ppl with some kind of realmpride don`t wanna play with realmhoppers.
Tue 28 May 2019 5:12 PM by Yokahu
Stoertebecker wrote:
Tue 28 May 2019 4:51 PM
Yokahu wrote:
Tue 28 May 2019 3:09 AM
3) Players with realm pride will not switch regardless, the rest of the players find that outdated.

And ppl with some kind of realmpride don`t wanna play with realmhoppers.

They already do thou. Everyone can switch realms after 12h, so that sentiment won’t change.
Tue 28 May 2019 10:02 PM by Stoertebecker
Yokahu wrote:
Tue 28 May 2019 5:12 PM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Tue 28 May 2019 4:51 PM
Yokahu wrote:
Tue 28 May 2019 3:09 AM
3) Players with realm pride will not switch regardless, the rest of the players find that outdated.

And ppl with some kind of realmpride don`t wanna play with realmhoppers.

They already do thou. Everyone can switch realms after 12h, so that sentiment won’t change.

Last realmhoppers were kicked from the guild /or left the guild for some reasons.

And if you wanna know what happens if the realm switch timer falls, take a look on live. That has nothing to do with DAoC, it`s more like a shooter.
Tue 28 May 2019 10:08 PM by Yokahu
Stoertebecker wrote:
Tue 28 May 2019 10:02 PM
Yokahu wrote:
Tue 28 May 2019 5:12 PM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Tue 28 May 2019 4:51 PM
And ppl with some kind of realmpride don`t wanna play with realmhoppers.

They already do thou. Everyone can switch realms after 12h, so that sentiment won’t change.

Last realmhoppers were kicked from the guild /or left the guild for some reasons.

And if you wanna know what happens if the realm switch timer falls, take a look on live. That has nothing to do with DAoC, it`s more like a shooter.

That’s why 2 hours timer is perfect!
Tue 28 May 2019 10:25 PM by gotwqqd
How about a timer that you can set for the future but still play?
Playing alb, I wanna play mid in 12 hours. Choose a realm queue(no backing out now) and you can continue playing but in 12 hours you are locked out of alb and have to play mid.
Wed 29 May 2019 3:11 AM by Kohi
Too much realm bunnies already, timer should be set on 1 week. Still waiting for realmpride being rewarded as we were told back i beta, btw.
Wed 29 May 2019 6:50 AM by Wasted_Content
Kohi wrote:
Wed 29 May 2019 3:11 AM
Too much realm bunnies already, timer should be set on 1 week. Still waiting for realmpride being rewarded as we were told back i beta, btw.

What? No. Realm pride? I play this game for FUN. I enjoy ALL the classes on ALL 3 realms.

REALM PRIDE!? I don't even.How are you attributing "PRIDE" ...to an entire REALM on a video game..... to this equation? What is there to even have PRIDE about!? It's PIXELS.

Take pride in your friends, or in your ability to coordinate, or your leadership.... but to try to aim it at a specific realm?

I am..so lost by this type of completely outdated mindset.
Wed 29 May 2019 6:53 AM by Wasted_Content
Stoertebecker wrote:
Tue 28 May 2019 10:02 PM
And if you wanna know what happens if the realm switch timer falls, take a look on live. That has nothing to do with DAoC, it`s more like a shooter.


This is a huge logical fallacy. There are SO MANY DIFFERENT problems with how live fails that you trying to lump in their realm switch timer with all the other garbage makes for an incredibly weak argument.

edit: said "live works" and it definitely doesn't work at all
Wed 29 May 2019 6:58 AM by Kohi
Wasted_Content wrote:
Wed 29 May 2019 6:50 AM
Kohi wrote:
Wed 29 May 2019 3:11 AM
Too much realm bunnies already, timer should be set on 1 week. Still waiting for realmpride being rewarded as we were told back i beta, btw.

What? No. Realm pride? I play this game for FUN. I enjoy ALL the classes on ALL 3 realms.

REALM PRIDE!? I don't even.How are you attributing "PRIDE" ...to an entire REALM on a video game..... to this equation? What is there to even have PRIDE about!? It's PIXELS.

Take pride in your friends, or in your ability to coordinate, or your leadership.... but to try to aim it at a specific realm?

I am..so lost by this type of completely outdated mindset.

ok.
Wed 29 May 2019 7:12 AM by Druth
Wasted_Content wrote:
Wed 29 May 2019 6:50 AM
Kohi wrote:
Wed 29 May 2019 3:11 AM
Too much realm bunnies already, timer should be set on 1 week. Still waiting for realmpride being rewarded as we were told back i beta, btw.

What? No. Realm pride? I play this game for FUN. I enjoy ALL the classes on ALL 3 realms.

REALM PRIDE!? I don't even.How are you attributing "PRIDE" ...to an entire REALM on a video game..... to this equation? What is there to even have PRIDE about!? It's PIXELS.

Take pride in your friends, or in your ability to coordinate, or your leadership.... but to try to aim it at a specific realm?

I am..so lost by this type of completely outdated mindset.

To many of us, it is a thing.
I play this server to get a feel of daoc 2001-2004, or so. And in that period you had one realm (on each server), and realm pride was a very big deal.
People would dump many plats on repairing relic gates.
They would suicide from PvE raids to defend realm.
They would equip people for free, to help out realm mates.
They would spend a lot of time to come rez people (back when xp were hard earned).
Etc...

All this falls apart when you don't know if you or "them" have changed realm tomorrow.


Make no mistake, I see the positives from low realm timer, but people who don't see the negatives really lack objective thinking.


Edit: And I am also surprised that sticking with one realm isn't rewarded more.
Wed 29 May 2019 7:19 AM by Druth
And if you want an updated mindset, why the hellfire are you playing DaoC?
So many "updated" games out there.

Again, I have this nagging suspicion that when people talk about: modern, updated, etc... what they really mean is "what I want".
Wed 29 May 2019 7:33 AM by Kohi
Druth wrote:
Wed 29 May 2019 7:12 AM
Wasted_Content wrote:
Wed 29 May 2019 6:50 AM
Kohi wrote:
Wed 29 May 2019 3:11 AM
Too much realm bunnies already, timer should be set on 1 week. Still waiting for realmpride being rewarded as we were told back i beta, btw.

What? No. Realm pride? I play this game for FUN. I enjoy ALL the classes on ALL 3 realms.

REALM PRIDE!? I don't even.How are you attributing "PRIDE" ...to an entire REALM on a video game..... to this equation? What is there to even have PRIDE about!? It's PIXELS.

Take pride in your friends, or in your ability to coordinate, or your leadership.... but to try to aim it at a specific realm?

I am..so lost by this type of completely outdated mindset.

To many of us, it is a thing.
I play this server to get a feel of daoc 2001-2004, or so. And in that period you had one realm (on each server), and realm pride was a very big deal.
People would dump many plats on repairing relic gates.
They would suicide from PvE raids to defend realm.
They would equip people for free, to help out realm mates.
They would spend a lot of time to come rez people (back when xp were hard earned).
Etc...

All this falls apart when you don't know if you or "them" have changed realm tomorrow.


Make no mistake, I see the positives from low realm timer, but people who don't see the negatives really lack objective thinking.


Edit: And I am also surprised that sticking with one realm isn't rewarded more.

This. The actual system with switching between realms might be nice for having fun in each realm, different classes, friends, whatever, i get it. But for all the above mentioned reasons which i 100% agree with, and a few other ones, i wish the timer would be longer and realmpride bonus rewarded as it was told to us. Speaking of which, and regarding my "outdated mindset" in case u're new here, here some few excerpts from beta posts :

Uthred wrote: ...
There will be "realmpride bonus" in some form for people who dont switch realms but stick to it.
...
We may put in a realmpride bonus. Mentioned that several times before. We will decide that after monitoring the live population for some time.
...

Seems i'm not the only who had an "outdated mindset"...
Wed 29 May 2019 7:39 AM by Druth
Give people who changed realm the last 7days a 50% rp penalty, and they can remove the timer imo.
Or 100% bonus to those who have not, don't really care either way.

That might help make people think an extra time before switching.
Wed 29 May 2019 9:35 AM by Stoertebecker
Wasted_Content wrote:
Wed 29 May 2019 6:53 AM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Tue 28 May 2019 10:02 PM
And if you wanna know what happens if the realm switch timer falls, take a look on live. That has nothing to do with DAoC, it`s more like a shooter.


This is a huge logical fallacy. There are SO MANY DIFFERENT problems with how live fails that you trying to lump in their realm switch timer with all the other garbage makes for an incredibly weak argument.

edit: said "live works" and it definitely doesn't work at all

Live works? With 200 players online at EU primetime? There are/were different problems, thats correct, and the missing realm switch timer is one of them, another problem is that players cheat like ther`s no tomorrow. Did you take a look at the ban-section of this forum. Do you know how many well known ( on live) players are already banned? The same ppl were banned on Uthgard 2 years ago for the same reasons.

And thats the problem of DAoC and its lousy rest of community today, it`s extremely toxic, selfish and arrogant.
Saying *Oh, i play just 33% of the game. Lower the fakkn timer* is selfish. There are enough players that don`t wanna switch realms and they don`t wanna fight the same ppl that were in the same group 2h ago.

Idk if they lower the realm switch timer, but i`m pretty sure that it will cause more damage to the server as doing something good.
But i`d like something like a flag to a toons name which realm he usually plays and an option to deny access to my market mechant. Similar to the friends/ignore lst.

Btw.: Welcome to an outdated game from the early 2000´. Wondering how you`ll play CU if you`re going to play a game where only 1 realm/server is allowed.
Wed 29 May 2019 1:47 PM by Krendos
The 12 hour timer is survivable if you can let me pay rent on houses when I am currently on another realm. If that cannot be implemented, then like 4 hours would be great. Right now, its logoff for 12 hours, wait, login, pay my rent, 12 more hours, wait, log back in to do what I was doing a day ago, in the meantime, all my friends are still doing what I was without me . I would rather not have to wait a day to do what I was just having fun doing. The whole make people logoff for days to switch realms, just makes people want to leave the game, because if they have to wait that long, they aren't gaming. If the mechanisms were in place to take care of things from another realm where you are currently, then it would be no biggy to me.

People breaking rules will always happen, people wanting to play all realms all the time will happen, but don't try to make people stay on your realm due to a penalty for their time.

Seems silly to have a timer at all to me. Cross realm stuff happens regardless of if you are even playing the same realm as friends or guildies, with VOIP anything is possible for information. The realm timer is just more of an inconvenience than anything right now in its current iteration.
Wed 29 May 2019 3:04 PM by Raunz
Not voting on this, there should be no timer.

Best Regards
Raunz
Wed 29 May 2019 10:27 PM by djegu
Druth wrote:
Wed 29 May 2019 7:12 AM
Wasted_Content wrote:
Wed 29 May 2019 6:50 AM
Kohi wrote:
Wed 29 May 2019 3:11 AM
Too much realm bunnies already, timer should be set on 1 week. Still waiting for realmpride being rewarded as we were told back i beta, btw.

What? No. Realm pride? I play this game for FUN. I enjoy ALL the classes on ALL 3 realms.

REALM PRIDE!? I don't even.How are you attributing "PRIDE" ...to an entire REALM on a video game..... to this equation? What is there to even have PRIDE about!? It's PIXELS.

Take pride in your friends, or in your ability to coordinate, or your leadership.... but to try to aim it at a specific realm?

I am..so lost by this type of completely outdated mindset.

To many of us, it is a thing.
I play this server to get a feel of daoc 2001-2004, or so. And in that period you had one realm (on each server), and realm pride was a very big deal.
People would dump many plats on repairing relic gates.
They would suicide from PvE raids to defend realm.
They would equip people for free, to help out realm mates.
They would spend a lot of time to come rez people (back when xp were hard earned).
Etc...

All this falls apart when you don't know if you or "them" have changed realm tomorrow.


Make no mistake, I see the positives from low realm timer, but people who don't see the negatives really lack objective thinking.


Edit: And I am also surprised that sticking with one realm isn't rewarded more.

You are right and i've stated that before, the 12h is useless it doesn't prevent realm hoping and doesn't help realm pride, it's either you increase the realm timer (bad idea IMO) or you shorten it (better in the long run)
Thu 30 May 2019 6:36 AM by Druth
djegu wrote:
Wed 29 May 2019 10:27 PM
You are right and i've stated that before, the 12h is useless it doesn't prevent realm hoping and doesn't help realm pride, it's either you increase the realm timer (bad idea IMO) or you shorten it (better in the long run)

Guess you are right, although I don't share your view on which is better, I also agree the 12 hour timer doesn't really accomplish what it wants (realm pride), and on the other hand is waaaay to long to prevent what it also wants (jumping for bonuses, relic defence, or using RvR info).

I really think the best solution is to allow faster realm switch (1-2 hour to avoid abusive behavior), lovely how constructive discussions can work...
But on the other hand reward (greatly) people who don't change realm, pref scaling it to get max effect after 1 month, or punish people changing realm.
Even giving people a sig that shows that they changed realm recently, so I can avoid crafting at cost for people who don't have realm pride.

This allows people the freedom, but at a cost.
Fri 7 Jun 2019 2:12 PM by boing1
crossrealming as it is is ok. might be longer... on uhtgard it killed lots of gameplay... crossrealmer underwent lots of rvr-action and disrupted lot of action...
Fri 7 Jun 2019 6:57 PM by snayan17
Switching it up keeps people playing. On live you could just jump on another server. I think 6 hours is perfect it allows you to go to bed and start on another each day if you so choose.
Fri 7 Jun 2019 7:37 PM by imissswg
I just read Live is going to go with a short realm switch timer (30 min or so was mentioned) with no timer if no RPs/player kills were had. I think even people that hate ream switch timers could live with that...
Fri 7 Jun 2019 10:33 PM by djegu
6h is useless, anything above 1h and under 24h is useless
You want to prevent cross realming ? put a 24h timer, the server will be dead in 1 month but at least it's really prevent cross realming.
Otherwise 1h is more than enough, people log in, nobody ? perfect come back in 1h.

It's backward to put such a long timer.
Sat 8 Jun 2019 2:30 PM by Bobbahunter
I don’t care if it is 2 hrs. This game is more of a community of friends old friends new friends. I’d love to see it when In a situation let’s say Mids are owning all night. Few peeps could say hey headed out to dinner. When I get back I’m going hib so watch your butts. 😃. I have zero hate for my frenemies because without them this is just another FPS pve game. I get owned and I own. It’s ALL fun to me.
Sat 8 Jun 2019 4:54 PM by Nachtfee
I dont know what u all have with a 12H switch timer ? log out before u go to bed and next day after Breakfast u can switch to your realm of choice so i dont undestand this discussion
Sat 8 Jun 2019 5:47 PM by elfwitch
The realm switch timer is fine where it's at! If you can't play on one realm without wanting to play the other 2 realms within a few hours of playing, then owell. I wish originally the phoenix devs would've made it to where everybody can only play on one realm to stop all this crying like 2yr olds. If you don't like waiting, then go to sleep and play whatever realm you want to play on once you wake up! I hope they never change the realm switch timer since it doesn't need changed.
Sun 9 Jun 2019 9:41 PM by Kyllikki
Nachtfee wrote: I dont know what u all have with a 12H switch timer ? log out before u go to bed and next day after Breakfast u can switch to your realm of choice so i dont undestand this discussion

1) I have friends on 3 realm (not the same guild), I can't play the afternoon because I don't know on which realm friends will need me in prime time = game time divided by 2.
2) Friends spread over the 3 realms and can't switch = we're not enough to build a full grp = we just don't play.

This is particularly visible for "8v8" grp and you can say that many do not care but that's already -5/10 players on the server because of this timer, only. just for people I know.
Sun 9 Jun 2019 10:08 PM by Stoertebecker
Hard to coordinate stuff with things like whatsapp, discord and such....
Mon 10 Jun 2019 9:41 AM by Kyllikki
Yes of course, it's easy to do a cross realm and cross guild planning 24 hours in advance on different time zones with most people who work etc... just for a game and just because of a 12h timer. we're so stupid, sorry.

Your comments is like saying to a user: "it's your fault if you don't know how to do", that's just rly stupid.

it's fine to try to defend this timer, but this is the problem: there is no data showing that it is necessary while the negative effects are concrete and the only justification of the GMs is a personal experience on a single server. It's pure amateurism (and that's fine too, it's a freeshard, but as a professional it's very frustrating).
Mon 10 Jun 2019 11:27 AM by keen
Kyllikki wrote:
Mon 10 Jun 2019 9:41 AM
but as a professional it's very frustrating).
Professional whiner?
Tue 11 Jun 2019 9:43 AM by Sepplord
Kyllikki wrote:
Mon 10 Jun 2019 9:41 AM
it's fine to try to defend this timer, but this is the problem: there is no data showing that it is necessary while the negative effects are concrete

where is this concrete data?

Imo there is no concrete data for either side of the discussion, if there was it would be an easy change.


*cough* well, i meant to say WAS...since now we have pretty concrete data why a change can't happen: it would make people like raunz believe that they can simply bully the devs into decisions with constant flaming, whining and throwing kiddietantrums
Tue 11 Jun 2019 9:54 AM by Stoertebecker
Kyllikki wrote:
Mon 10 Jun 2019 9:41 AM
Your comments is like saying to a user: "it's your fault if you don't know how to do", that's just rly stupid.
Since we have only 3 realms and not 8 and with all the ways of communication today, it looks really stupid if you`re not able bringing 8 ppl together.

I don`t have any problems at primetime forming a group. Maybe because i`m in a guild larger than 8, because i know more ppl in my realm and last but not least...i don`t switch realms? I made my experience with all 3 realms (Albion srd, btw) already within the last 19 years, i know what i wanna play and what not.
Tue 11 Jun 2019 5:58 PM by Azrael
keen wrote:
Mon 10 Jun 2019 11:27 AM
Kyllikki wrote:
Mon 10 Jun 2019 9:41 AM
but as a professional it's very frustrating).
Professional whiner?

hahahaha, very good.
Wed 12 Jun 2019 3:04 AM by Shamissa
12 hr Is just fine.
Fri 14 Jun 2019 7:48 AM by ciquattro
I think 8 hours time limit for switching realm is fair.. for example in the morning you do a small run and when back to home after 8 hours of work you can decide if you want to switch realm. in 24h you have the possibility to switch realm 4 times if you don't sleep :-) and this will not disrupt RvR mechanics
Fri 14 Jun 2019 8:06 PM by kevha
I thinks !2 hours is just right .
Sun 16 Jun 2019 4:12 AM by Fayynne
4 hours stops zerg hopping like you're so worried about and allows people to play other realms before rvring with their groups at night
Sun 16 Jun 2019 8:08 AM by Druth
Reward people for sticking to a realm, instead of punishing people that want to change realm.
Sun 16 Jun 2019 9:15 AM by Loki
Fayynne wrote:
Sun 16 Jun 2019 4:12 AM
4 hours stops zerg hopping like you're so worried about and allows people to play other realms before rvring with their groups at night
If the timer was 24h, you'd be begging for 12h , arguing how little impact the change has to zerging. 12h is perfect.
Sun 16 Jun 2019 3:49 PM by Fayynne
Loki wrote:
Sun 16 Jun 2019 9:15 AM
Fayynne wrote:
Sun 16 Jun 2019 4:12 AM
4 hours stops zerg hopping like you're so worried about and allows people to play other realms before rvring with their groups at night
If the timer was 24h, you'd be begging for 12h , arguing how little impact the change has to zerging. 12h is perfect.

No I'd be asking for 4. There is no such thing as realm pride, the timer is only in place to stop people zerg hopping. It makes sense to have a near 20 year old game that we only have access to one third of.
Sun 16 Jun 2019 9:24 PM by Loki
Fayynne wrote:
Sun 16 Jun 2019 3:49 PM
Loki wrote:
Sun 16 Jun 2019 9:15 AM
Fayynne wrote:
Sun 16 Jun 2019 4:12 AM
4 hours stops zerg hopping like you're so worried about and allows people to play other realms before rvring with their groups at night
If the timer was 24h, you'd be begging for 12h , arguing how little impact the change has to zerging. 12h is perfect.

No I'd be asking for 4. There is no such thing as realm pride, the timer is only in place to stop people zerg hopping. It makes sense to have a near 20 year old game that we only have access to one third of.
Well , there is no realm pride because of realm hoppers. I play Mid only, and don't plan to move anywhere. And reducing the timer or removing it would only make things worse, it will also lead to the server becoming what Uthgard was in the end. People taking empty keeps and waiting for others to take them back (in this case the same people will be swapping to take them back).
Any way, the topic is pointless. Devs have said over and over that the timer will not be changed or removed. Besides, people aching so badly to be able to swap whenever they want will keep being miserable and quit because that's just who they are. I am so bored of hearing the same excuse every day, bla bla bla 20 year old game, why don't they just let us do whatever we want.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 2:30 PM by Juanito
Kyllikki wrote:
Sun 9 Jun 2019 9:41 PM
Nachtfee wrote: I dont know what u all have with a 12H switch timer ? log out before u go to bed and next day after Breakfast u can switch to your realm of choice so i dont undestand this discussion

1) I have friends on 3 realm (not the same guild), I can't play the afternoon because I don't know on which realm friends will need me in prime time = game time divided by 2.
2) Friends spread over the 3 realms and can't switch = we're not enough to build a full grp = we just don't play.

This is particularly visible for "8v8" grp and you can say that many do not care but that's already -5/10 players on the server because of this timer, only. just for people I know.


I totally agree with this statement. Tbh, I don't want to complain about any rules made by GMs. However, i have to admit that I dont understand at all this rule, which for me is just so outdate, not even useless but painless for the server and its community.

I do understand that for a few (1 or 2 no more) obvious reasons, we should have a timer for crossing realm. But 12 hours is way too long, especially for what kyllikki just exposed.

Lowering the timer from 12h to let say 4hours, would allow for instance :
-playing H the morning, then A the evening
-having more small mans running
-having less people doing nothing at PK
-making 8-man PUG easier to build

I don't see ANY drawbacks AT ALL by lowering the timer 12 to 4h.

My 2c, hf
Mon 17 Jun 2019 2:41 PM by Juanito
Loki wrote:
Sun 16 Jun 2019 9:24 PM
Any way, the topic is pointless. Devs have said over and over that the timer will not be changed or removed. Besides, people aching so badly to be able to swap whenever they want will keep being miserable and quit because that's just who they are. I am so bored of hearing the same excuse every day, bla bla bla 20 year old game, why don't they just let us do whatever we want.

Hi,

Sorry but to me this is non sense. Im not saying you are right or wrong, that is not point.

However, you said "Besides, people aching so badly to be able to swap whenever they want will keep being miserable and quit because that's just who they are".

and

"Devs have said over and over that the timer will not be changed or removed."

First, thank you for calling me miserable because I THINK the timer should be LOWERED. I didnt know that being miserable was so easy these days.

Second, maybe it should ring somes bells, that since Day1 and a population decreasing from 4K people to hardly 1.3K, feedbacks arguing that this timer causes trouble keeps pouring the forum.

Finally, one of Uthred last's answer to Raunz, who was way to vindicative btw, was saying that removing /lowering the timer had supports from withing their dev team. Plus, only fools don't change their minds.

hf,
Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:16 PM by Loki
Juanito wrote:
Mon 17 Jun 2019 2:41 PM
Loki wrote:
Sun 16 Jun 2019 9:24 PM
Any way, the topic is pointless. Devs have said over and over that the timer will not be changed or removed. Besides, people aching so badly to be able to swap whenever they want will keep being miserable and quit because that's just who they are. I am so bored of hearing the same excuse every day, bla bla bla 20 year old game, why don't they just let us do whatever we want.

Hi,

Sorry but to me this is non sense. Im not saying you are right or wrong, that is not point.

However, you said "Besides, people aching so badly to be able to swap whenever they want will keep being miserable and quit because that's just who they are".

and

"Devs have said over and over that the timer will not be changed or removed."

First, thank you for calling me miserable because I THINK the timer should be LOWERED. I didnt know that being miserable was so easy these days.

Second, maybe it should ring somes bells, that since Day1 and a population decreasing from 4K people to hardly 1.3K, feedbacks arguing that this timer causes trouble keeps pouring the forum.

Finally, one of Uthred last's answer to Raunz, who was way to vindicative btw, was saying that removing /lowering the timer had supports from withing their dev team. Plus, only fools don't change their minds.

hf,
You have a convenient way of misinterpreting things. First , I didn't call you miserable, I said people who ask for no realm timer will keep being miserable because they will just swap to the bigger zerg or be forced to not play their favorite class in favor of whatever can get more rps faster.

2nd, population drop as a cause of their refusal to remove realm timer is asinine . But I'm not surprised you'd try using it as a type of "emotional" leverage.

3rd what they said vs Raunz' little riot is that if before he might have had a little lenience from devs, it's all out the window now. Besides, on Discord they've reinforced their opinion several times.

If you think timer removal would help the server, I say it'll bury it .

Toodles ! (too bad I can't ignore people on forums, there's some dishonest folks around here that you just know you can't talk with)
Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:21 PM by Juanito
Loki wrote:
Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:16 PM
.....

Of course I wanted to make you react to the strong words you used ! Don't worry, I know you were not talking abbout everyone ! But still, everyone 's feedbacks and opinions interest me, and should interest also the community, the devs, etc. It was my way of saying everyone should be listent at, pros & cons.

I dont want to be misunderstood : pop is decreasing, but its not only due to the timer ! Its been almost 6 months already, it is also something "natural", a lots of things changed since then, etc... But I keep saying that the realm timer has something to do with it. If not by making people "tired of it" and then quit, it can also be a "no go" (sry for my english) for some people that would like to come back, or getting started as small man, or even 8mans.

Can you be more specific about why you think it'd killed the server ? And what positive or negative changes would bring, according to you, lowering the timer from 12 to 4 hours let s say ?

c u
Tue 18 Jun 2019 8:51 AM by Loki
Juanito wrote:
Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:21 PM
Of course I wanted to make you react to the strong words you used !
I don't get people like you. Have you lived in a forest your whole life ? How does me responding validate your opinion. Do you know typing doesn't take a lot of effort ? P a t h e t i c .
Tue 18 Jun 2019 9:19 AM by Juanito
Loki wrote:
Tue 18 Jun 2019 8:51 AM
Juanito wrote:
Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:21 PM
Of course I wanted to make you react to the strong words you used !
I don't get people like you. Have you lived in a forest your whole life ? How does me responding validate your opinion. Do you know typing doesn't take a lot of effort ? P a t h e t i c .

I tried to have a conversation with you, it doesnt work.

Bye
Tue 18 Jun 2019 12:57 PM by Loki
Juanito wrote:
Tue 18 Jun 2019 9:19 AM
Loki wrote:
Tue 18 Jun 2019 8:51 AM
Juanito wrote:
Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:21 PM
Of course I wanted to make you react to the strong words you used !
I don't get people like you. Have you lived in a forest your whole life ? How does me responding validate your opinion. Do you know typing doesn't take a lot of effort ? P a t h e t i c .

I tried to have a conversation with you, it doesnt work.

Bye
You're just regurgitating whatever brainfarts stuck to you as intelligent in /advice.
Tue 18 Jun 2019 2:34 PM by Anelyn77
Would love the timer lowered to 6h. I can cope with 12h (a bit harder as I play 2 realms alternating based on my friends online time on both realms), but would really appreciate being able to play on mid EU time and go to hib US time in same day. Just a thought, no biggie if we keep it at 12h.

/Bnotashamed + Aicha = LOVE
Wed 26 Jun 2019 5:37 PM by Kaseylol
I'd simply like to go to sleep, wake up, and pick my realm.
Who the fuck sleeps for 12 hours. It's really limiting. I basically have to play the same realm when I wake up, which then makes that my realm for another 12 hours. It's hard to manage a day to day realm choice at 12.

8hr makes a lot more sense, 4 hours would be plenty to stop any sort of activity based cheese switching. 6 hours is a happy medium and also how long I usually sleep.
Wed 26 Jun 2019 6:09 PM by Leandrys
You just play DAOC too much, that's why 12H timer bothers you.
Wed 26 Jun 2019 7:26 PM by Sepplord
****nothing worthy was written here****
Wed 26 Jun 2019 7:51 PM by Sepplord
Kaseylol wrote:
Wed 26 Jun 2019 7:30 PM
Yes we people think about what to type before we type it. Do you? Did you plan on presenting an argument or just being upset that I made one?

Are you upset that on weekends I wake up and play daoc sometimes? What exactly is your problem? Is this one of those 'there are starving children in Africa so no complaint has any merit because it's not as bad' arguments?

Try to articulate yourself a bit better.

you know what?

i agree...i shouldn't have posted that. It added nothing to the discussion and was simply born from reading your comment in a bad mood.
sorry
Wed 26 Jun 2019 7:56 PM by Kaseylol
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 26 Jun 2019 7:51 PM
you know what?

i agree...i shouldn't have posted that. It added nothing to the discussion and was simply born from reading your comment in a bad mood.
sorry

Edited. Cheers m8
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