Buff System / Buff Charge changes

Started 1 May 2019
by gruenesschaf
in Planned Changes
The goals behind these changes are:
1) If you are grouped with a buffer you are buffed by the buffer and don't need to use any charges / potions except for maybe useless things like str on caster
2) If you are solo / small man without a buffer, you use the combined buff potion and are done
3) Don't devalue existing sc/dq charge items

Goal 1 and 2 should be achieved without changing the currently achievable stats too much, some changes are fine however. Goal 3 should be achieved without making it something you always have to have up and juggle the timer or potentially waste upfront.

To achieve the first goal:
1) Increase the available conc by 25%
2) Remove 20 buff cap
3) Small delve increase to the acuity buff
4) Add spec AF to bards and healer

To achieve the second goal:
1) 30% buff of buff potion delve. This means from 65 (base + spec from current buff potion) or 101 (buff potion base + spec charge) to 83 (33 base, 50 spec)
2) haste potion and combo potion use the same haste
3) add appropriate spec AF to combo buff potion

To achieve the third goal:
1) s/c charge becomes a 20% secondary magic resists charge for 30 seconds
2) d/q charge becomes a 20% secondary melee resists charge for 30 seconds

Spec AF charges will be set to the same value as the combined forces potion, thereby effectively removing them
Acuity charges will be set to the same value as the combined forces potion, thereby effectively removing them
Wed 1 May 2019 4:42 PM by Tharlin
Just a question: Why should a self buff class spec self buffs if everyone gets the same benefit from potions? :-(
Wed 1 May 2019 4:48 PM by BaldEagle
Tharlin wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:42 PM
Just a question: Why should a self buff class spec self buffs if everyone gets the same benefit from potions? :-(

Yeah, it still doesn't address that issue.

The 20% resist seems WAY OP. Maybe something like 5-10% might be better? It will essentially make heal or dmg add useless.
Wed 1 May 2019 4:52 PM by Eldoktor
Ok so right now you're telling people spending times and currency to go to hell with the thousands of feathers spent to buy charges item...

and why ?
Because some casuals are QQing as usual because they don't even try to take the time to farm it ?

It's bulshit!
Wed 1 May 2019 4:53 PM by Fugax
Add AOE POM, DMG add, Haste......for buffs
Wed 1 May 2019 4:54 PM by Tharlin
I would prefer to remove all that buff potions.

Buffs should be a thing if you are grouped with a buffer or if your class can self buff. Nothing else!
Wed 1 May 2019 4:56 PM by Steelcurtain28
Tharlin wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:42 PM
Just a question: Why should a self buff class spec self buffs if everyone gets the same benefit from potions? :-(

this is a Dumb move to do and is going to take players out of the game i really hope this is a prank the devs are pulling
Wed 1 May 2019 4:56 PM by Kaziera
Eldoktor wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:52 PM
Ok so right now you're telling people spending times and currency to go to hell with the thousands of feathers spent to buy charges item...

and why ?
Because some casuals are QQing as usual because they don't even try to take the time to farm it ?

It's bulshit!

Cry much?

Even for the so called elitists its a boon. No longer wasting plats for charges? Yay! No longer juggling timers on items? Yay!

Cry all u want, but i like it.
Wed 1 May 2019 4:58 PM by LedriTheThane
I don't think making the buff potion stronger and essentially getting rid of the buff charges is a better solution than what we have now. Should've just made the charges cheaper and reset the cooldown on release.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:00 PM by nuffs
20% secondary melee resists? Is that on top of your melee resists from items? This seems like a big issue. Good casters groups all debuff nuke, so the magic secondary seems way less useful.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:03 PM by filbert
and I thought it was 1th of may and not 1th of april today
Wed 1 May 2019 5:03 PM by kmark101
I agree with that combined buff potion should be removed or only used in non-frontier zones (so for only for pve... they would be auto removed as soon as the character enters any frontier zone or DF).

Only utility buffs should remain:
- endo potion
- a new speed potion (realm speed, breaks on attack)

A new buff should be added to buff classes: spellturn, similar to bladeturn but it would block the first damage spell against the character as it's a huge imbalance currently between casters and melees.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:03 PM by CsCDK
Sound like a really bad plan, if it aint broken dont try to fix it

Seems to be moving more and more towards live and modern mmo's, sure way to make sure people will leave.

We are here for the old experience!

Not to get everything handed to us and play in the old frontiers.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:05 PM by Fames
wow, first time i actually think they fucked up hard
Wed 1 May 2019 5:07 PM by Taftaf
In my opinion that's an horrible change. I really hope you won't do it.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:08 PM by Kwall0311
I dont possibly see how anyone could have a problem with the buff changes. Please explain it to me.

The melee/magic resist charge is a different story.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:10 PM by Asheh
This is the first change that I generally think will affect the game in a negative way.
I'm all for the conc changes but things realm specific should stay realm specific. If this isn't the case why do clerics/healers not have access to group purge and stuff, vice versa? As for the charges, well things need to be earned, having things just given away soo freely will ultimately change the longevity of this server, which with summer approaching, is depleting as is. I think time spent revising milegates for chokepoint solutions above that of teleportation on a zone at a time, and zerg warfare farming keeps would be more worthwhile.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:10 PM by lorinser021
if they want to give everyone access to the same buffs. bring back buffbots. i dont get why spec af was given to hibs/mids, what about celerity for albs?
Wed 1 May 2019 5:11 PM by Apollo
This is a terrible idea and completely ruins the spirit of the Classic era this server tries to emulate.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:13 PM by florin
What about say necros that have acuity charges on their armor - are those worthless now or removed?

can we have the armor scrubbed for new alch?
Wed 1 May 2019 5:13 PM by gruenesschaf
lorinser021 wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:10 PM
if they want to give everyone access to the same buffs. bring back buffbots. i dont get why spec af was given to hibs/mids, what about celerity for albs?

Spec af is currently available as charge, celerity is not therefore this does not introduce any realm specific buffs to a realm that did not have access to it before.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:13 PM by Catkain
I vote no. Not broken, don’t fix.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:14 PM by Svekt
The concentration increase and buff limit removal are nice.

I'm not too sure about everything else.

with dex/qui and str/con charges moving to resist charges you will no longer be able to receive a rez and then charge your primary stat.

i.e. Healer dies, other healer PR instantly... my combined pot is on a 1 min combat timer and now my dex/quick charge is a resist charge. Yes rebuffers will shine here but that is somewhat game changing. Certainly will be some adjusting on the player end to compensate for this. I can't tell you how many times I've been in that exact situation and used a dex/quick charge + mcl and power pot and was right back in the fight. Now i need to find my shaman and stop what they are doing for a quick rebuff to be effective again.

So now because people didn't take the time to farm items that make their characters stronger, we all get same level buffs and the items I farmed or purchased from farming coin are now useless.

The people who have invested time into their characters are being punished, and the people who expect hand outs are being rewarded.

I'm pretty sure we missed the mark somewhere here as the majority of feedback has been to either increase duration on buff potions or remove them... not buff them insanely.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:15 PM by Ceen
The 20 % charges are waaay overpowered and shift the whole gameplay a lot. So now charges have more impact on RvR than before.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:15 PM by Strikejk
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:35 PM
2) haste potion and combo potion use the same haste

Nice but which value will they use? The haste potion value or the combo potion value?
Wed 1 May 2019 5:17 PM by noobino
Overall I like this change, but I don't like the 20% magic/melee absorb(resist) change to d/q and s/c.

If anything, just remove those items and give us a 50/75% discount back on feathers for them. The reason is this isn't going to solve the charging problem or need to have them. Everyone will run these charges and they'll inevitably make fights last longer for no real reason.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:19 PM by Trisha2019
I love this! So sick of the 400g recharge costs every time the tasks changes! And the rest is all just a PLUS! Very nice, good job Devs!
Wed 1 May 2019 5:21 PM by Eoril
Spec AF = specific Alb (but impossible to buff with 2 clerics)

Now Mid & Hib will be able to play with whereas Alb cannot O_o
Wed 1 May 2019 5:22 PM by brewtus23
Just get rid of Buff potions period. If you want buffs either play a class that has self buffs or group with a class that can buff. We are getting to a point where everything is being handed out and making come classes irrelevant and not needed in the game. This isn't live server where everyone has everything. This patch time frame was for back when classes were needed to be able to form groups and fight realm vs realm vs realm. This buff pot stuff is really getting out of control and i feel is going to push alot of people away from the server.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:23 PM by Cruella
Tharlin wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:54 PM
I would prefer to remove all that buff potions.

Buffs should be a thing if you are grouped with a buffer or if your class can self buff. Nothing else!

T H I S

+
now mid can always have spec af up and the realm you owned it in the first place with 2 clerics cant.. fucked up
Wed 1 May 2019 5:23 PM by noobino
Eoril wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:21 PM
Spec AF = specific Alb (but impossible to buff with 2 clerics)

Now Mid & Hib will be able to play with whereas Alb cannot O_o

They're increasing the conc pool so it should be possible.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:23 PM by gruenesschaf
Cruella wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:23 PM
Tharlin wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:54 PM
I would prefer to remove all that buff potions.

Buffs should be a thing if you are grouped with a buffer or if your class can self buff. Nothing else!

T H I S

Back then you had buff bots though, so this situation wasn't ever the case really.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:24 PM by PingGuy
Eoril wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:21 PM
Spec AF = specific Alb (but impossible to buff with 2 clerics)

It won't be impossible anymore with these changes.

Eoril wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:21 PM
Now Mid & Hib will be able to play with whereas Alb cannot O_o

Mid and Hib already could, by using charges.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:24 PM by Darby
I'm fine with these changes, but there's no way I'm staying buff spec on my druid. Regrowth+Nature all the way.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:25 PM by Thorrez
Why give a up to the buff pots ...

buffbots killed the original game
Wed 1 May 2019 5:25 PM by qq6
I dont even know how to comprehend this, will take a look at this again tomorrow. Right now am reading this as a pretty big fu towards archers. We already share charge timers, is the charge cd going to be removed or still on a 2 min timer?
Wed 1 May 2019 5:26 PM by Connavar
These buff potions needs to removed. Making them stronger is the wrong way because you weaken all classes with self buffs like the ranger with his pathfinding. This class is balanced around this line. You want buffs? Then don't play solo in a mmo.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:27 PM by hend
Is it a priority ?
As a player i would appreciate more if you focus on fixing all the bugs we have since the previous patch.

Also, as i already told you, melee damages have to be reworked or atleast have to be nerfed for VW and savages. If you do this, there is no need for melee resist charges. What about reflex attack ?

It really sounds like this patch will cost you alot of effort for nothing we really need while some big points you don't talk about are actually breaking the game.

I hope you ll focus on fixing what we already have instead of adding more and breaking more.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:27 PM by kmark101
Good luck trying to kill any hib/alb caster group as mid melee now... as it was not nearly impossible already and dependent on a few lucky crits. Everyone with +75 AF now (since spec buff cap removed... why... it was there for balance reasons...) + 20% melee resist, some caster groups will be literally unkillable for mids. (The 20% magic resist doesnt matter since it will be simply debuffed as always, while melee has no option to debuff).
Wed 1 May 2019 5:27 PM by Scout123
Thorrez wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:25 PM
Why give a up to the buff pots ...

buffbots killed the original game

Buffbots killed the original game by not everyone ran two accts and had access to one. Everyone has access to buff pots
Wed 1 May 2019 5:28 PM by Menfany
Seriously?
Nerfing ALB again?

WHY?
Is ALbion superior right now? No.
Are the other realms too weak? No.

So WHY give them MORE conc to buff.. whil Alb still have the same buffs..
And even GIVE HIB/MID Spec AF.. while Alb STILL have no ENDU Buff?

I mean.. what are you doing?
This cant be seriously your solution?

Alb gets nerfed constantly... whithout reason.. while you dont do anything against the gamebreaking bugs of other realms.. and then THIS?
Absolutly disgusting.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:30 PM by Eoril
noobino wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:23 PM
Eoril wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:21 PM
Spec AF = specific Alb (but impossible to buff with 2 clerics)

Now Mid & Hib will be able to play with whereas Alb cannot O_o

They're increasing the conc pool so it should be possible.

lol no

AF spec = 24 conc
Wed 1 May 2019 5:33 PM by noobino
Eoril wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:30 PM
noobino wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:23 PM
Eoril wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:21 PM
Spec AF = specific Alb (but impossible to buff with 2 clerics)

Now Mid & Hib will be able to play with whereas Alb cannot O_o

They're increasing the conc pool so it should be possible.

lol no

AF spec = 24 conc

25% more conc, and with these combined forces pot changes - whos gonna be speccing anything? You should have plenty of conc to go around.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:34 PM by jwalker
please increase self buffs then as well through the board (all self buffing classes).

Blue specs should be 60 value, yellow 68, red 75 (caps without moa).
Wed 1 May 2019 5:34 PM by Keelia
kmark101 wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:03 PM
I agree with that combined buff potion should be removed or only used in non-frontier zones (so for only for pve... they would be auto removed as soon as the character enters any frontier zone or DF).

Only utility buffs should remain:
- endo potion
- a new speed potion (realm speed, breaks on attack)

A new buff should be added to buff classes: spellturn, similar to bladeturn but it would block the first damage spell against the character as it's a huge imbalance currently between casters and melees.

Imbalance how? All tanks are basically det 9 with stoicism and are impossible to cc. So yea let’s give them a block for the first spell on top of that? Seriously wow.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:35 PM by Tharlin
jwalker wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:34 PM
please increase self buffs then as well through the board (all self buffing classes).

Blue specs should be 60 value, yellow 68, red 75 (caps without moa).

/sign
Wed 1 May 2019 5:37 PM by Druth
Love the server, but better pot buffing is not the right way to go.

Buff selfbuffs by 25-50% value or something. But again, I don't understand why we need more buffing.

In my view, charges and pots should have their value cut by 50% instead. Make buffs, actual buffing buffs be the way to go, and charges/pots be an emergency solution.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:37 PM by Luluko
I dont see how goal 1 and 2 are a bad thing this is really great news not having to recharge all the time and just have one potion buff everything that you dont need haste pots/ specc af/ str/con charges anymore this is really great if they do the same for single buff potions which dont have 1minute pvp combat timer. Also good that you can run less buff classes even tho that will mostly nerf hib a little but thats a good thing they can use it.

The melee/magic resist charge are a little over the top and make them must haves if you solo, rather let people turn them in to get their feathers back or change to a damage add/hp regen charge or only use 10% resist.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:38 PM by BorealManager5
Last week seven people bought MP cloth gloves with spec AF charges from my vendor, my condolences to them. This morning I refilled my vendor, so thanks for wasting my time. How silly of me to trust in the statement of not wanting to devalue existing charges

I can just hope you have at least considered the fact that only hib gets the AF buff on a class with 1.5x spec points that usually specs high in nuture. Put the last spec AFat least at lv50 for bards, so they won't have a better spec af buffs then albs and only one level more than mid. Or even put in on druid. With 20 buff limit gone and const increase, there's no reason hib small man receive additional "buffs".

For dq we get a RA that would normaly cost 15 points, for sq its a malice buff. I don't know how I feel about this, but I expect it to impact balancing quite severely. Guess we shall see ...
Wed 1 May 2019 5:39 PM by Grimpfl
nice changes!

+ please nerf Friar - to much OP!!!
Wed 1 May 2019 5:41 PM by Zadek
Great to work on Pots increase/charge and ruin experience instead of fixe invisible wall issue while running, camera bug, and so on from last client update....
Wed 1 May 2019 5:42 PM by Cruella
Dont implement the resist things. just let the players sell their existing stocks with a little
bonus coin to the merchants...but please.... everyone sees those are a mistake...
Wed 1 May 2019 5:45 PM by chryso
Cruella wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:42 PM
Dont implement the resist things. just let the players sell their existing stocks with a little
bonus coin to the merchants...but please.... everyone sees those are a mistake...

So, I am assuming that you are everyone?
Wed 1 May 2019 5:46 PM by Toddola
I really don't like the sound of these changes.

Just extend the buff duration.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:47 PM by teiloh
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:13 PM
lorinser021 wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:10 PM
if they want to give everyone access to the same buffs. bring back buffbots. i dont get why spec af was given to hibs/mids, what about celerity for albs?

Spec af is currently available as charge, celerity is not therefore this does not introduce any realm specific buffs to a realm that did not have access to it before.

This patch will have the effect of putting Spec AF on every single Hib and Mid. Whereas it might have been ideal to put charges on every time you died, the reality is that most people did not do this. In the original game ToA/Buffbots meant that spec AF was an Alb exclusive benefit built into the Cleric, which somewhat made up for the fact that Smite is one of the worst skill lines in the game.

More than anything this means Hibs will be taking 10-12% less melee damage, as a realm. Bards have 1.5 spec points and 43 Nurt is almost mandatory. As the third and usually fourth buffer in Hib, this means that all Hibs will not only have Spec AF but have it more redundantly.

Realistically, if you look at the Cleric now, they have no advantages at all. If other realm's support were introduced, as they are, to Alb - Clerics would never be grouped again. And if Clerics were placed in Mid or Hib, they would likewise never be grouped.

I think this is taking the wrong perspective and making Spec AF universal when it was never meant to be. Spec AF charge items were rare on live DaoC around 1.65, not a guaranteed-access commodity as it is on Phoenix with the abundance of feathers and the new combined forces pots. IMO, it should remain an Alb only buff until there is justification for handing out this advantage so freely. Say, a major Smite fix or Paladin AF chant stacking like Celerity does with Haste.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:47 PM by Lordzolio
I am sick of spending what little time i have to play making enuff gold to buy comb force, endo, refill charges then i have hardly any time to play.

I said this in another thread about buffs , either have NO buffs at all or just give them to us via buff merchant, NO buffbots, NO dual logging .
Wed 1 May 2019 5:48 PM by Blitze
This seems a big nerf to some of the lowest performing classes on the server: the selfbuffers/hybrids.

Very odd. Very very odd.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:48 PM by scira1
brewtus23 wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:22 PM
Just get rid of Buff potions period. If you want buffs either play a class that has self buffs or group with a class that can buff. We are getting to a point where everything is being handed out and making come classes irrelevant and not needed in the game. This isn't live server where everyone has everything. This patch time frame was for back when classes were needed to be able to form groups and fight realm vs realm vs realm. This buff pot stuff is really getting out of control and i feel is going to push alot of people away from the server.

this this

daoc was special and different because of specialization. giving everyone the ability to do everything changes the whole design of the game. it goes beyond QoL - the is quickly becoming only different from live because of ToA and old maps. there's a reason we stopped playing live...............
Wed 1 May 2019 5:49 PM by Sepplord
The changes to buffers and buff-pots seem to fill their goals and i am interested in seeing in how everything plays out


The charges though seem to only fill the goal of not devaluing dq/sc items that were farmed/bought... but making them that strong devalues the legion-charge items heavily. (Gamebalance effects we will have to wait and see)


All in all i dont have a too huge problem with a small devaluation, but if the goal was to avoid that problem i think it wasn't fully met.


Thankfully i am a hoarder and pennytwister and haven't bought legionheart in multiple chars yet 😉
Wed 1 May 2019 5:50 PM by Keelia
kmark101 wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:27 PM
Good luck trying to kill any hib/alb caster group as mid melee now... as it was not nearly impossible already and dependent on a few lucky crits. Everyone with +75 AF now (since spec buff cap removed... why... it was there for balance reasons...) + 20% melee resist, some caster groups will be literally unkillable for mids. (The 20% magic resist doesnt matter since it will be simply debuffed as always, while melee has no option to debuff).
If a 20% buff on a caster breaks your tank dps train you might need to just get better, it’s not game breaking.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:54 PM by gruenesschaf
teiloh wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:47 PM
Spec AF charge items were rare on live DaoC, not a guaranteed-access commodity as it is on Phoenix with the abundance of feathers.

http://camelot.allakhazam.com/recipe.html?crecipe=312
Wed 1 May 2019 5:55 PM by Egonek
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:35 PM
The goals behind these changes are:
1) If you are grouped with a buffer you are buffed by the buffer and don't need to use any charges / potions except for maybe useless things like str on caster
2) If you are solo / small man without a buffer, you use the combined buff potion and are done
3) Don't devalue existing sc/dq charge items

Goal 1 and 2 should be achieved without changing the currently achievable stats too much, some changes are fine however. Goal 3 should be achieved without making it something you always have to have up and juggle the timer or potentially waste upfront.

To achieve the first goal:
1. Increase the available conc by 25% (Midgard/Hibernia love)
2. Remove 20 buff cap (Midgard love)
3. Small delve increase to the acuity buff
4. Add spec AF to bards and healer (Strong Midgard/Hibernia love)

To achieve the second goal:
1) 30% buff of buff potion delve. This means from 65 (base + spec from current buff potion) or 101 (buff potion base + spec charge) to 83 (33 base, 50 spec) nerf my Friar!
2) haste potion and combo potion use the same haste
3) add appropriate spec AF to combo buff potion nerf my Friar!!

To achieve the third goal:
1) s/c charge becomes a 20% secondary magic resists charge for 30 seconds
2) d/q charge becomes a 20% secondary melee resists charge for 30 seconds

Spec AF charges will be set to the same value as the combined forces potion, thereby effectively removing them
Acuity charges will be set to the same value as the combined forces potion, thereby effectively removing them

Good Albion nerf

Wed 1 May 2019 5:56 PM by Kampfar
Or just epic chest for spec af charge
Wed 1 May 2019 5:58 PM by Ceen
The current more or less live like system has it flaws and some people QQ.
Yet every change will make the QQ worse, just leave it as it is, knowing its not the best but its also not the worst.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:58 PM by teiloh
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:54 PM
teiloh wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:47 PM
Spec AF charge items were rare on live DaoC, not a guaranteed-access commodity as it is on Phoenix with the abundance of feathers.

http://camelot.allakhazam.com/recipe.html?crecipe=312

My bad. Still, they couldn't be used from inventory and they also did not benefit from Spec bonus.
Wed 1 May 2019 5:59 PM by Hokar
Tharlin wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:54 PM
I would prefer to remove all that buff potions.

Buffs should be a thing if you are grouped with a buffer or if your class can self buff. Nothing else!

Totally Suppoert This
Wed 1 May 2019 6:01 PM by Milchschnidde
Playing a Ranger, i feel a bit fucked up ... i mean realy the only reason to spec into pathfinder is that breakable instant speed short duration combined with a dmg add thats not bad but thats all. I realy dont know what i should do now with the cheap Q/D selfbuff and str/con,that is now entirely useless....

The changes sound realy fun, but you didnt adress the selfbuffing classes issue ..., now the potions are OP and the selfbuffs more useless then before. If you settle the selfbuffs as Spec buffs with a halved value on top of buffpotion would be a great deal - even a value of 25% to stack with the buffpotion would be nice. ( if you read that you should try out how those things work)...

As for Ranger pls think about the possiblity to add a small group speed ( for small man stealther) same for Hunter(would improve the buff line a little).. Albion has ministrel for stealthparty with speed 6.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:02 PM by Amnesiaa
just make the d/q s/c items charges refundable, do not put these magic/melee item use in game this is exactly why live became terrible
Wed 1 May 2019 6:04 PM by tweedledee
I like it!

Possibly increase charges to 1 min and not just 30 seconds?
Wed 1 May 2019 6:05 PM by Fames
tweedledee wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:04 PM
I like it!

Possibly increase charges to 1 min and not just 30 seconds?

*bangs head against wall*
Wed 1 May 2019 6:07 PM by Kyllikki
- Should we help under populated realm?
- Meh just kill it.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:07 PM by kerri
HUGE nerf for Albion if this going live...

Don't do this please, a lot of people is gonna leave Phoenix for sure
Wed 1 May 2019 6:07 PM by chois
first time i want to vomit ......
Wed 1 May 2019 6:09 PM by Jacksontown
Even if this is a nerf to Alb, Hib is by far the most underpopulated realm at most times of the day
Wed 1 May 2019 6:10 PM by paul_g
So does this render Master of Arcane another useless RA?
Wed 1 May 2019 6:10 PM by Roto23
I think this may be too drastic of a change. Can we try baby steps first like, dropping the 20 buff limit, giving spec af to healers and bards, raising conc 25% and then what ever you did to help soloers from juggling charges.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:11 PM by Dealinjah
I remember a private shard i played during many years called Uthgard 1.0

Life was sweet there , we had tajendi barrel recharge stone etc , everybody were happy living there
One day admin took decision to supress recharge stone , the community started to feel angry about it
Second day they suppressed barrel , the community said :" Becarful admin we are makin this server alive "
The third day they deleted tajendi and the tajendi stuff will deplete faster and the community finally gone play on genesis server
Then uthgard admin decided to RIP the server to start a new one and the rest of community said :"do that and we will not came back"

Finally Uthgard admins always took decision without listenning community and today only blue's team is playing on it

This Major change you are making....sorry i would say this major USELESS change you are making start to smell like uthgard changes ...

whats wrong with the server actually ? its sweet to play on phoenix so why change , there would be lots of things to change to make this server more decent for solo playing etc but you choose to make it worth

I hope you will listen to your community and dont nerf charge items or just implement buff bot for everyone

I grinded my infi with specific stats , items etc , he is 9L5 actually , im waiting for your implementation to see if i reroll somethin else because playing with - 20 dext stre cons and quickness against easymod BD , CHamp or somethin else will became clearly impossible


With love xxx Boucletrange...
Wed 1 May 2019 6:12 PM by jelzinga_EU
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:35 PM
To achieve the third goal:
1) s/c charge becomes a 20% secondary magic resists charge for 30 seconds
2) d/q charge becomes a 20% secondary melee resists charge for 30 seconds

These values are way too big and will be often the decisive factor in a 1vs1 fight. If anything, just give a (huge) amount of gold or something for them rather than changing them in another must-have item.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:13 PM by teiloh
Roto23 wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:10 PM
I think this may be too drastic of a change. Can we try baby steps first like, dropping the 20 buff limit, giving spec af to healers and bards, raising conc 25% and then what ever you did to help soloers from juggling charges.

No Bard/Healer buffs.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:14 PM by hend
Why is it a nerf for albion ?
We already play with Af crafted charges on hib and mid. And alb will have more concentration to buff pets and maybe to include friars in the setup. I don't see a world where its a nerf for Albion.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:15 PM by Eldoktor
it's just a nice buff for mids

Svg has dmg more than it should have :d now they have the spec af :d

Give celerity to all 3 realms if you give af spec
Wed 1 May 2019 6:15 PM by Hejjin
As a self buffing class (Solo Friar) I am not happy about the changes. If you are determined to go do this line, when can we expect movement speed buffs? If not, why not? The self-buffing classes are hit very heavily here, so why should those classes that provide movement speed also feel the pain?
Wed 1 May 2019 6:16 PM by Menfany
Jacksontown wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:09 PM
Even if this is a nerf to Alb, Hib is by far the most underpopulated realm at most times of the day

not underpopulted if you count all shrooms in animists cast at fights.. and with using their bugs its pretty even out to the other realms.. or at least Albion.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:18 PM by paul_g
Similar to friars - i see this as a nerf to rangers specing into mastery of arcane as well...convince me otherwise please.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:20 PM by Menfany
I cant believe why Spec AF to their secondary buff classes.. and more conc is given to Hib/Mid primary buff classes too.. while Alb still lack of an ENDU buff and celerity.. and the more conc dont give them any advance then buffing useless buffs onto the group..

Why? Just WHY?!
Wed 1 May 2019 6:20 PM by Jacksontown
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:16 PM
Jacksontown wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:09 PM
Even if this is a nerf to Alb, Hib is by far the most underpopulated realm at most times of the day

not underpopulted if you count all shrooms in animists cast at fights.. and with using their bugs its pretty even out to the other realms.. or at least Albion.

No one's counting the shrooms animists casts during a fight as part of the hib population. By that logic a Theurgist casting pets contributes to the Alb population which is an odd thing to claim
Wed 1 May 2019 6:21 PM by Roto23
teiloh wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:13 PM
Roto23 wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:10 PM
I think this may be too drastic of a change. Can we try baby steps first like, dropping the 20 buff limit, giving spec af to healers and bards, raising conc 25% and then what ever you did to help soloers from juggling charges.

No Bard/Healer buffs.

well, I was thinking that if soloers get all that without juggling charges, group people should get it from a common grouped class type like the healer and bard.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:21 PM by Svekt
Dealinjah wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:11 PM
I remember a private shard i played during many years called Uthgard 1.0

Life was sweet there , we had tajendi barrel recharge stone etc , everybody were happy living there
One day admin took decision to supress recharge stone , the community started to feel angry about it
Second day they suppressed barrel , the community said :" Becarful admin we are makin this server alive "
The third day they deleted tajendi and the tajendi stuff will deplete faster and the community finally gone play on genesis server
Then uthgard admin decided to RIP the server to start a new one and the rest of community said :"do that and we will not came back"

Finally Uthgard admins always took decision without listenning community and today only blue's team is playing on it

This Major change you are making....sorry i would say this major USELESS change you are making start to smell like uthgard changes ...

whats wrong with the server actually ? its sweet to play on phoenix so why change , there would be lots of things to change to make this server more decent for solo playing etc but you choose to make it worth

I hope you will listen to your community and dont nerf charge items or just implement buff bot for everyone

I grinded my infi with specific stats , items etc , he is 9L5 actually , im waiting for your implementation to see if i reroll somethin else because playing with - 20 dext stre cons and quickness against easymod BD , CHamp or somethin else will became clearly impossible


With love xxx Boucletrange...

You need to keep playing your stealther. I fought you with Kokati the BD. It was not easy mode against you and I respect you as an opponent. I had to cycle str/dex debuffs on you, burn quickcast for extra dps, spec af charge + pd7. Our fight was a good one and you only vanished because we had more mids inc from the portal keep. You were the magic trick in Kokati Vol3 I believe.

I was actually looking forward to hunting for you after redoing my template to include staff swapping for procs when I staff you after the gap is closed. You are solid, just keep playing mate. Much respect here from me to you. Even if you called one of my toons easy mode =P
Wed 1 May 2019 6:23 PM by kedelin
Hejjin wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:15 PM
As a self buffing class (Solo Friar) I am not happy about the changes. If you are determined to go do this line, when can we expect movement speed buffs? If not, why not? The self-buffing classes are hit very heavily here, so why should those classes that provide movement speed also feel the pain?

How is this a nerf to self buffers.... it actually nerfs the total amt of stats non buffers get from pot plus charge
Wed 1 May 2019 6:24 PM by Jacksontown
Svekt wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:21 PM
Dealinjah wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:11 PM
I remember a private shard i played during many years called Uthgard 1.0

Life was sweet there , we had tajendi barrel recharge stone etc , everybody were happy living there
One day admin took decision to supress recharge stone , the community started to feel angry about it
Second day they suppressed barrel , the community said :" Becarful admin we are makin this server alive "
The third day they deleted tajendi and the tajendi stuff will deplete faster and the community finally gone play on genesis server
Then uthgard admin decided to RIP the server to start a new one and the rest of community said :"do that and we will not came back"

Finally Uthgard admins always took decision without listenning community and today only blue's team is playing on it

This Major change you are making....sorry i would say this major USELESS change you are making start to smell like uthgard changes ...

whats wrong with the server actually ? its sweet to play on phoenix so why change , there would be lots of things to change to make this server more decent for solo playing etc but you choose to make it worth

I hope you will listen to your community and dont nerf charge items or just implement buff bot for everyone

I grinded my infi with specific stats , items etc , he is 9L5 actually , im waiting for your implementation to see if i reroll somethin else because playing with - 20 dext stre cons and quickness against easymod BD , CHamp or somethin else will became clearly impossible


With love xxx Boucletrange...

You need to keep playing your stealther. I fought you with Kokati the BD. It was not easy mode against you and I respect you as an opponent. I had to cycle str/dex debuffs on you, burn quickcast for extra dps, spec af charge + pd7. Our fight was a good one and you only vanished because we had more mids inc from the portal keep. You were the magic trick in Kokati Vol3 I believe.

I was actually looking forward to hunting for you after redoing my template to include staff swapping for procs when I staff you after the gap is closed. You are solid, just keep playing mate. Much respect here from me to you. Even if you called one of my toons easy mode =P

I reacted thinking solo was going to harder now too but doesn't this just mean that we'll all be on the same playing field? The champ will debuff you for more but won't he be buffed up less now?

And sneaks mostly fight other sneaks anyway so it won't effect any of that at least.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:24 PM by Roto23
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:20 PM
I cant believe why Spec AF to their secondary buff classes.. and more conc is given to Hib/Mid primary buff classes too.. while Alb still lack of an ENDU buff and celerity.. and the more conc dont give them any advance then buffing useless buffs onto the group..

Why? Just WHY?!

arn't they are giving 25% more conc to all realms? I don't play alb, but doesn't their main buffer use conc as well?
Wed 1 May 2019 6:24 PM by Milchschnidde
Simply add a refund merchant, to refund Feather-Items back to feathers (especial those buff items) thats all. (Even others had farmed them, they get still a refund to get something else in exchange). We allready have enough items and product range to choose which we have to use in fights (potions, charges, ras etc) I mean this leads to direction of ToA -> that was the achillis heel for ToA too many skills and charges that overwhelmed ppl. for play. Keep it interesting but simple.

The meta will be wiped again, champion debuff get nerved in small man partys and self buffing class get slapped again, if YOU ADD SPEC AF -Why not ADD celerity for all realms ? you remove the "unique" albion buff but not touch Midgards unique celerity... i mean its a joke...

Did you test the Melee and spell resistance on bonedance or necromancer ? They are allready not killable in 1v1 metchups, do you want to buff such lame chars ?
Wed 1 May 2019 6:26 PM by teiloh
Roto23 wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:21 PM
well, I was thinking that if soloers get all that without juggling charges, group people should get it from a common grouped class type like the healer and bard.

Originally Spec AF was an Alb specific bonus that Mythic gradually kept watering down with new charges introduced. At least at this patch level Albs were the only ones with red Spec AF with spec and buff bonus w/ ToA and Buffbots - and it affected pets.

Giving it to bards would mean that every single Hib would always have Spec AF, with the exception of soloers.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:26 PM by stinsfire
At this point the devs could just turn us all into vampyrs and have us passively buffed or simply allow buff bots. There is so much that needs to be adressed and fixed and they decide to make completely unwanted stuff and are very uncommunicative. For example like 2 Months ago they were active in archery threads and said they will look at it and probably introduce changes. And then… Nothing, they completely Ignore anything archer related, even if you directly ask them, No update.. no reason why you think my hunter is fine? Crap pet, pet destealthes the Hunter (this was introduced with strong pets and not the crap we have here), useless self buffs, no PD, no MOS RA while assassins get all the love. And leveling by suiciding RvR zones is the most stupid Thing I have ever seen. Greys everywhere.. worst are the ones who are Level 35 and appear yellow and you critshot/pa whatever them, reveal yourself and bam... 0 RP and he was grey.

I think the devs are finally losing touch with the community. We pulling a Uthgard 3.0 now? 20% dmg reduction charges, lmao…
fkng set some rational priorities.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:32 PM by Hejjin
kedelin wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:23 PM
Hejjin wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:15 PM
As a self buffing class (Solo Friar) I am not happy about the changes. If you are determined to go do this line, when can we expect movement speed buffs? If not, why not? The self-buffing classes are hit very heavily here, so why should those classes that provide movement speed also feel the pain?

How is this a nerf to self buffers.... it actually nerfs the total amt of stats non buffers get from pot plus charge
Not everyone used pots + charge...
Wed 1 May 2019 6:33 PM by hend
Please use and keep your energy to fix invisible walls and work on a stable client. I know you are working hard for that but i think most of the players are just waiting for that.
If you want to do something for balance. Rework the whole melee system. Everybody fucking just accepted the No variance system on melee damages (for the first time in the whole daoc history) making VW et savages totally broken. Fix the Twf in keeps.
Guys you had it, a server almost perfect with a huge player base and now its starting to fuck up and be ywain like. Don't search anywhere, fix the real dark age, fix what we already have, people will play. Don't add new useless things.

Me right now :

Wed 1 May 2019 6:33 PM by Svekt
Speaking as someone who plays a bd, we absolutely have our weak spots. Once the heal pets start, you drag the BD away from the pets as they can not heal and move at the same time and often times bug out once you move outside of their range and are still engaged. If you have a mezz option simply mezz the pets and you stand a far better chance. Better yet you can pluck a bd with archers from range without them being able to face u if you're on a hill extending your range.

Like all fights and all opponents you should always try to engage your enemy on your terms whenever possible. I understand thats not always possible but its = on my end, I get jumped not on my terms all the time.

If we (BDs) purge the stun/disease simply weapon swap and re-layer the disease and dot and its over pretty quick. I will get 30sec addittional melee resists and you will get 30 sec addittional magic resists so its still even if we both pop charges on inc.

BDs have no /formation or /spacing functions here and pets are buggy to speak frankly so its not hard if you're paying attention to mechanics to understand how to win vs a BD.

I play Kokati occasionly when the mood is right, ive told you how to kill me now so come fight when im on.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:34 PM by Griselda
Way to much interference in the game mechanics itself. TERRIBLE CHANGES! Please reconsider!
Wed 1 May 2019 6:35 PM by Roto23
teiloh wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:26 PM
Roto23 wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:21 PM
well, I was thinking that if soloers get all that without juggling charges, group people should get it from a common grouped class type like the healer and bard.

Originally Spec AF was an Alb specific bonus that Mythic gradually kept watering down with new charges introduced. At least at this patch level Albs were the only ones with red Spec AF with spec and buff bonus w/ ToA and Buffbots - and it affected pets.

Giving it to bards would mean that every single Hib would always have Spec AF, with the exception of soloers.

ok, thats a good point. But I get spec AF from my epic armor that I keep in my bags. So I think it really isn't Alb specific (like celerity is to mid) on Phoenix. But, it's not a common thing to charge in Mid. I only charge it cause Im a healer and have my own str/con. Also, the time to kill a player in 8v8 is a bit short, I'm all for increasing that 25% and this will help that.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:39 PM by PingGuy
Am I missing something? I was under the impression that d/q and s/c spec charges were going away with this change. Are they being rolled into the combined forces pot? Or going away?

If going away, that's better for spec lines like Pathfinding. If getting rolled into pot, then it's worse for them.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:39 PM by Dealinjah
Jacksontown wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:24 PM
Svekt wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:21 PM
Dealinjah wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:11 PM
I remember a private shard i played during many years called Uthgard 1.0

Life was sweet there , we had tajendi barrel recharge stone etc , everybody were happy living there
One day admin took decision to supress recharge stone , the community started to feel angry about it
Second day they suppressed barrel , the community said :" Becarful admin we are makin this server alive "
The third day they deleted tajendi and the tajendi stuff will deplete faster and the community finally gone play on genesis server
Then uthgard admin decided to RIP the server to start a new one and the rest of community said :"do that and we will not came back"

Finally Uthgard admins always took decision without listenning community and today only blue's team is playing on it

This Major change you are making....sorry i would say this major USELESS change you are making start to smell like uthgard changes ...

whats wrong with the server actually ? its sweet to play on phoenix so why change , there would be lots of things to change to make this server more decent for solo playing etc but you choose to make it worth

I hope you will listen to your community and dont nerf charge items or just implement buff bot for everyone

I grinded my infi with specific stats , items etc , he is 9L5 actually , im waiting for your implementation to see if i reroll somethin else because playing with - 20 dext stre cons and quickness against easymod BD , CHamp or somethin else will became clearly impossible


With love xxx Boucletrange...

You need to keep playing your stealther. I fought you with Kokati the BD. It was not easy mode against you and I respect you as an opponent. I had to cycle str/dex debuffs on you, burn quickcast for extra dps, spec af charge + pd7. Our fight was a good one and you only vanished because we had more mids inc from the portal keep. You were the magic trick in Kokati Vol3 I believe.

I was actually looking forward to hunting for you after redoing my template to include staff swapping for procs when I staff you after the gap is closed. You are solid, just keep playing mate. Much respect here from me to you. Even if you called one of my toons easy mode =P

I reacted thinking solo was going to harder now too but doesn't this just mean that we'll all be on the same playing field? The champ will debuff you for more but won't he be buffed up less now?

And sneaks mostly fight other sneaks anyway so it won't effect any of that at least.
i dont know for others sneaks i will let them talk in there name but in my case , my reality of gaming i dont fight only sneaks i fight everything i can exept BD 6L + et champ 5L +

anyway you build a char to have 250 quickness and after change you realize you got only 220 or 225 is a big difference

so my point of view this change is a big disrespect for players who invested time on their character because this change will change their way of gaming , i take scout as exemple drop back 20 str const dext and viva on a scout and just see the result .

Every sneaks i know are playing full charged s/c d/q and af because playing without is a real pain , we grinded char 7L 8L 9L + and phixion 11L for that ? to see our gameplay nerfed just because 2 people QQing selfbuff classs blablabla ? really ?

ask to NS and SB what they think about those change when they gonna fight friar or necromancer ...
Wed 1 May 2019 6:41 PM by Haxchap
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:35 PM
1) s/c charge becomes a 20% secondary magic resists charge for 30 seconds
2) d/q charge becomes a 20% secondary melee resists charge for 30 seconds

Spec AF charges will be set to the same value as the combined forces potion, thereby effectively removing them
Acuity charges will be set to the same value as the combined forces potion, thereby effectively removing them

The large value melee/magic charges introduced on live were pretty much reduced to 10 or 15sec due to how op they were. Even with how dmg is far more enhanced there. So i imagine doing the above changes would be a little much for a classic server?

Not sure if making spec af/acu charges is great aswell? Does eliminate double charging on casters if that's how i interpret it? However doesn't let you charge acu after death due to the pot timer after combat.

Do like the extra conc and removal of 20 buffs though...
Wed 1 May 2019 6:45 PM by Kappu
Haxchap wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:41 PM
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:35 PM
1) s/c charge becomes a 20% secondary magic resists charge for 30 seconds
2) d/q charge becomes a 20% secondary melee resists charge for 30 seconds

Spec AF charges will be set to the same value as the combined forces potion, thereby effectively removing them
Acuity charges will be set to the same value as the combined forces potion, thereby effectively removing them

The large value melee/magic charges introduced on live were pretty much reduced to 10 or 15sec due to how op they were. Even with how dmg is far more enhanced there. So i imagine doing the above changes would be a little much for a classic server?

Not sure if making spec af/acu charges is great aswell? Does eliminate double charging on casters if that's how i interpret it? However doesn't let you charge acu after death due to the pot timer after combat.

Do like the extra conc and removal of 20 buffs though...

There are no need for spec charges now they've all been adjusted in the combined forces pot. They've effectively eliminated those charges from the game as stated in the initial post.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:45 PM by Ardri
teiloh wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:47 PM
Spec AF charge items were rare on live DaoC around 1.65, not a guaranteed-access commodity as it is on Phoenix with the abundance of feathers and the new combined forces pots.

90% of the comments in here are noobs complaining about this causing realm imbalance Proof that y'all have no idea what you're talking about.

Alb/Clerics never gave spec af because they were limited by 20 buffs/conc. Alchemy WITH CRAFTED SPEC AF CHARGE was introduced in 2002 with SI.

Every non scrub, in every realm, ran crafted spec af charge. If anything this is a buff to all the noobs that never charged it, because now you all get it for free.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:47 PM by Kappu
Dealinjah wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:39 PM
Jacksontown wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:24 PM
Svekt wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:21 PM
You need to keep playing your stealther. I fought you with Kokati the BD. It was not easy mode against you and I respect you as an opponent. I had to cycle str/dex debuffs on you, burn quickcast for extra dps, spec af charge + pd7. Our fight was a good one and you only vanished because we had more mids inc from the portal keep. You were the magic trick in Kokati Vol3 I believe.

I was actually looking forward to hunting for you after redoing my template to include staff swapping for procs when I staff you after the gap is closed. You are solid, just keep playing mate. Much respect here from me to you. Even if you called one of my toons easy mode =P

I reacted thinking solo was going to harder now too but doesn't this just mean that we'll all be on the same playing field? The champ will debuff you for more but won't he be buffed up less now?

And sneaks mostly fight other sneaks anyway so it won't effect any of that at least.
i dont know for others sneaks i will let them talk in there name but in my case , my reality of gaming i dont fight only sneaks i fight everything i can exept BD 6L + et champ 5L +

anyway you build a char to have 250 quickness and after change you realize you got only 220 or 225 is a big difference

so my point of view this change is a big disrespect for players who invested time on their character because this change will change their way of gaming , i take scout as exemple drop back 20 str const dext and viva on a scout and just see the result .

Every sneaks i know are playing full charged s/c d/q and af because playing without is a real pain , we grinded char 7L 8L 9L + and phixion 11L for that ? to see our gameplay nerfed just because 2 people QQing selfbuff classs blablabla ? really ?

ask to NS and SB what they think about those change when they gonna fight friar or necromancer ...

This changes nothing about how you play because it is an across the board change so everyone sees the same value changes just might see a fight go longer or maybe not hit as hard, but that's what every single class in the game is going to see.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:48 PM by teiloh
Ardri wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:45 PM
teiloh wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:47 PM
Spec AF charge items were rare on live DaoC around 1.65, not a guaranteed-access commodity as it is on Phoenix with the abundance of feathers and the new combined forces pots.

90% of the comments in here are noobs complaining about this causing realm imbalance Proof that y'all have no idea what you're talking about.

Alb/Clerics never gave spec af because they were limited by 20 buffs/conc. Alchemy WITH CRAFTED SPEC AF CHARGE was introduced in 2002 with SI.

Every non scrub, in every realm, ran crafted spec af charge. If anything this is a buff to all the noobs that never charged it, because now you all get it for free.

No, Albs/Clerics never gave spec AF because buffbots buffed your group. If someone died, they sure as hell Spec AFed them.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:49 PM by Kappu
Ardri wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:45 PM
teiloh wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:47 PM
Spec AF charge items were rare on live DaoC around 1.65, not a guaranteed-access commodity as it is on Phoenix with the abundance of feathers and the new combined forces pots.

90% of the comments in here are noobs complaining about this causing realm imbalance Proof that y'all have no idea what you're talking about.

Alb/Clerics never gave spec af because they were limited by 20 buffs/conc. Alchemy WITH CRAFTED SPEC AF CHARGE was introduced in 2002 with SI.

Every non scrub, in every realm, ran crafted spec af charge. If anything this is a buff to all the noobs that never charged it, because now you all get it for free.

Totally agree the people complaining probably never juggled shit before and now it's like a handout........ They also don't realize the changes are going to have an effect on every person so it ultimately changes nothing.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:50 PM by Freedomcall
Yes, -25 qui means a lot. This will be a game changer.
Think about why ppl try to reach 250 qui as possible, and how they calculate their swing speed in accordance with 1.5 speed cap.
Lots of ppl may have to re-template their weapons.

And 20% resist charges..... *sigh*
Just give us refund... don't try to be too much "creative".....
Wed 1 May 2019 6:51 PM by Yokahu
First, thanks for not forgetting about this topic.

Second,I welcome the removal of buff charges items but (see #3 and #4)

Third, I think the buff to the buffpot was not needed, this will devalue selfbuffing classes.

Fourth and last, I’m worried about the new +20% to melee/magic charge. People will always do anything to get an advantage over the enemy, so this will uneven the play field once again... we’ll see, since 30sec is long enough for a single fight but not for more than that.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:52 PM by Ardri
teiloh wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:48 PM
Ardri wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:45 PM
teiloh wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:47 PM
Spec AF charge items were rare on live DaoC around 1.65, not a guaranteed-access commodity as it is on Phoenix with the abundance of feathers and the new combined forces pots.

90% of the comments in here are noobs complaining about this causing realm imbalance Proof that y'all have no idea what you're talking about.

Alb/Clerics never gave spec af because they were limited by 20 buffs/conc. Alchemy WITH CRAFTED SPEC AF CHARGE was introduced in 2002 with SI.

Every non scrub, in every realm, ran crafted spec af charge. If anything this is a buff to all the noobs that never charged it, because now you all get it for free.

No, Albs/Clerics never gave spec AF because buffbots buffed your group. If someone died, they sure as hell Spec AFed them.

Who here is talking about a server with buff bots? Your point is irrelevant.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:52 PM by teiloh
Ardri wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:52 PM
teiloh wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:48 PM
Ardri wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:45 PM
90% of the comments in here are noobs complaining about this causing realm imbalance Proof that y'all have no idea what you're talking about.

Alb/Clerics never gave spec af because they were limited by 20 buffs/conc. Alchemy WITH CRAFTED SPEC AF CHARGE was introduced in 2002 with SI.

Every non scrub, in every realm, ran crafted spec af charge. If anything this is a buff to all the noobs that never charged it, because now you all get it for free.

No, Albs/Clerics never gave spec AF because buffbots buffed your group. If someone died, they sure as hell Spec AFed them.

Who here is talking about a server with buff bots? Your point is irrelevant.

You, when you mentioned "Alb/Clerics never gave spec af"
Wed 1 May 2019 6:54 PM by Dealinjah
Kappu wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:47 PM
Dealinjah wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:39 PM
Jacksontown wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:24 PM
I reacted thinking solo was going to harder now too but doesn't this just mean that we'll all be on the same playing field? The champ will debuff you for more but won't he be buffed up less now?

And sneaks mostly fight other sneaks anyway so it won't effect any of that at least.
i dont know for others sneaks i will let them talk in there name but in my case , my reality of gaming i dont fight only sneaks i fight everything i can exept BD 6L + et champ 5L +

anyway you build a char to have 250 quickness and after change you realize you got only 220 or 225 is a big difference

so my point of view this change is a big disrespect for players who invested time on their character because this change will change their way of gaming , i take scout as exemple drop back 20 str const dext and viva on a scout and just see the result .

Every sneaks i know are playing full charged s/c d/q and af because playing without is a real pain , we grinded char 7L 8L 9L + and phixion 11L for that ? to see our gameplay nerfed just because 2 people QQing selfbuff classs blablabla ? really ?

ask to NS and SB what they think about those change when they gonna fight friar or necromancer ...

This changes nothing about how you play because it is an across the board change so everyone sees the same value changes just might see a fight go longer or maybe not hit as hard, but that's what every single class in the game is going to see.
we are playing on the server where everyone is zerging every one , its like that the best defense is attack , the more faster you kill someone , the faster you have chance to restealth and stay alive and thats make sense

anyway if i loose 20 dex and 20 quickness im not just loosing attack , im loosing evade

OFC everyone will loose stats its sure but think some stat loosing are more important for some classes
Wed 1 May 2019 6:55 PM by Ardri
teiloh wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:52 PM
Ardri wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:52 PM
teiloh wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:48 PM
No, Albs/Clerics never gave spec AF because buffbots buffed your group. If someone died, they sure as hell Spec AFed them.

Who here is talking about a server with buff bots? Your point is irrelevant.

You, when you mentioned "Alb/Clerics never gave spec af"

Yea, and i'm talking about this server without buff bots.......

No one is talking about live setting but you.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:56 PM by Menfany
Jacksontown wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:20 PM
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:16 PM
Jacksontown wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:09 PM
Even if this is a nerf to Alb, Hib is by far the most underpopulated realm at most times of the day

not underpopulted if you count all shrooms in animists cast at fights.. and with using their bugs its pretty even out to the other realms.. or at least Albion.

No one's counting the shrooms animists casts during a fight as part of the hib population. By that logic a Theurgist casting pets contributes to the Alb population which is an odd thing to claim

How many Theurg pets you see while a regular keep fight?
Even you should notice the difference...
Wed 1 May 2019 6:58 PM by Dindelion
You're causing a lot of balance issues with those changes. Hunter, Ranger, Friar get hit hard while they already fill a very niche role on this server. This is also a massive nerf to another niche class : Necro who loses the acuity charge, still can't use the buffpot on his pet while everyone else is getting stronger with those better pots.

Adding a 20% resist charge is terrible, the goal of this patch is to remove charges yet you introduce another mandatory charge, which, by the way, will drag fights longer.

I'm very confused about this patch, the suggestions thread you opened had pretty good ideas which would have been way less destructive about balance, while reducing some of the hassle of charges.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:59 PM by Drominchen
Dealinjah wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:54 PM
Kappu wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:47 PM
Dealinjah wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:39 PM
i dont know for others sneaks i will let them talk in there name but in my case , my reality of gaming i dont fight only sneaks i fight everything i can exept BD 6L + et champ 5L +

anyway you build a char to have 250 quickness and after change you realize you got only 220 or 225 is a big difference

so my point of view this change is a big disrespect for players who invested time on their character because this change will change their way of gaming , i take scout as exemple drop back 20 str const dext and viva on a scout and just see the result .

Every sneaks i know are playing full charged s/c d/q and af because playing without is a real pain , we grinded char 7L 8L 9L + and phixion 11L for that ? to see our gameplay nerfed just because 2 people QQing selfbuff classs blablabla ? really ?

ask to NS and SB what they think about those change when they gonna fight friar or necromancer ...

This changes nothing about how you play because it is an across the board change so everyone sees the same value changes just might see a fight go longer or maybe not hit as hard, but that's what every single class in the game is going to see.
we are playing on the server where everyone is zerging every one , its like that the best defense is attack , the more faster you kill someone , the faster you have chance to restealth and stay alive and thats make sense

anyway if i loose 20 dex and 20 quickness im not just loosing attack , im loosing evade

OFC everyone will loose stats its sure but think some stat loosing are more important for some classes

this^^

plus 20% less damage because everybody has free charge timer to drop resist charge making fights even longer.
Wed 1 May 2019 6:59 PM by teiloh
Ardri wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:55 PM
No one is talking about live setting but you.

Alb/Clerics never gave spec af because they were limited by 20 buffs/conc. Alchemy WITH CRAFTED SPEC AF CHARGE was introduced in 2002 with SI.

Oh okay, I guess your quote was about Phoenix setting in 2002.
Wed 1 May 2019 7:01 PM by lurker
Can we re-open the debate about 'speed of the hunt' given these changes?
Wed 1 May 2019 7:05 PM by Cruella
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:35 PM
4. Add spec AF to bards and healer



when you give mid and hib spec af...put the buff onshaman and druid and not healer and bard ! why would you put a spec buff on a non-specbuffing class? whats the reason behind that anyway? because its "live like"? please enlighten me
Wed 1 May 2019 7:07 PM by Ardri
This is a massive QoL improvement so solo's don't have to juggle 3 spec charges and casters don't have to juggle 2. And now every noob who never charged spec af gets it for free. Everyone is still on the same playing field, except self buff classes actually re-gain a small advantage they always should have had.

Did all of you secretly love charging every 2 minutes ad infinitum every time you RvR'd? Baffling the amount of noobs crying in this thread.

Now the 20% secondary resists is a different discussion. Imo it's going to be busted op, but we will have to wait and see. 20% secondary magic resists is the equivalent to free AoM 9. My guess is 10% would be much more balanced.
Wed 1 May 2019 7:11 PM by Dealinjah
Ardri wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:07 PM
This is a massive QoL improvement so solo's don't have to juggle 3 spec charges. And now every noob who never charged spec af gets it for free. Everyone is still on the same playing field, except self buff classes actually re-gain a small advantage they always should have had.

Did all of you secretly love charging every 2 minutes ad infinitum every time you RvR'd? Baffling the amount of noobs crying in this thread.

Now the 20% secondary resists is a different discussion. Imo it's going to be busted op, but we will have to wait and see. 20% secondary magic resists is the equivalent to free AoM 9. My guess is 10% would be much more balanced.

effectivly using charge every 2 min is a real pain , but gameplay will really change for stealther anyway every solo players will be ready to use legion items or 20 % resist during fight this completly change the face of solo playing
Wed 1 May 2019 7:13 PM by Ardri
Dealinjah wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:11 PM
effectivly using charge every 2 min is a real pain , but gameplay will really change for stealther anyway every solo players will be ready to use legion items or 20 % resist during fight this completly change the face of solo playing

Change the face of solo via both players being able to use the same exact charges...? Eh, no not really "changing the face" of much. If anything it's more equal as one player doesn't get shafted because he used a d/q charge within the last 2min and couldn't use legion heal in the fight. Now it's even playing field.
Wed 1 May 2019 7:14 PM by Jacksontown
Ardri wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:07 PM
This is a massive QoL improvement so solo's don't have to juggle 3 spec charges and casters don't have to juggle 2. And now every noob who never charged spec af gets it for free. Everyone is still on the same playing field, except self buff classes actually re-gain a small advantage they always should have had.

Did all of you secretly love charging every 2 minutes ad infinitum every time you RvR'd? Baffling the amount of noobs crying in this thread.

Now the 20% secondary resists is a different discussion. Imo it's going to be busted op, but we will have to wait and see. 20% secondary magic resists is the equivalent to free AoM 9. My guess is 10% would be much more balanced.

A non-knee jerk reaction where you don't claim the server is dead has no place here
Wed 1 May 2019 7:16 PM by Yokahu
Dealinjah wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:11 PM
Ardri wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:07 PM
This is a massive QoL improvement so solo's don't have to juggle 3 spec charges. And now every noob who never charged spec af gets it for free. Everyone is still on the same playing field, except self buff classes actually re-gain a small advantage they always should have had.

Did all of you secretly love charging every 2 minutes ad infinitum every time you RvR'd? Baffling the amount of noobs crying in this thread.

Now the 20% secondary resists is a different discussion. Imo it's going to be busted op, but we will have to wait and see. 20% secondary magic resists is the equivalent to free AoM 9. My guess is 10% would be much more balanced.

effectivly using charge every 2 min is a real pain , but gameplay will really change for stealther anyway every solo players will be ready to use legion items or 20 % resist during fight this completly change the face of solo playing

... for the worst.
I thought solos were going to be in the same playing field, but this +20% is disheartening. Maybe 10% wouldn’t be as bad.
Wed 1 May 2019 7:17 PM by Ashenspire
No one ever solos if you believe these boards. Everyone runs in herds. Solo play won't change much for 99% of the "solo" population.

I like the idea behind the pot change, the implementation is lackluster.

If you don't want buff bots, then don't have buff bots. Don't call them something else instead, don't replace what the haves have with something the have nots still don't have.

Conc changes are good. Spec AF to all realms is dumb.
Wed 1 May 2019 7:17 PM by Dealinjah
Ardri wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:13 PM
Dealinjah wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:11 PM
effectivly using charge every 2 min is a real pain , but gameplay will really change for stealther anyway every solo players will be ready to use legion items or 20 % resist during fight this completly change the face of solo playing

Change the face of solo via both players being able to use the same exact charges...? Eh, no not really "changing the face" of much. If anything it's more equal as one player doesn't get shafted because he used a d/q charge within the last 2min and couldn't use legion heal in the fight. Now it's even playing field.
are you playin a solo alb stealther ? did you ever tried to make kills in front of mpk where people are getting out every 5 sec ?

faster you kill less chance you got to be zerged its like that maybe i dont know what im talking about because im only playing 17 H a day a stealther
Wed 1 May 2019 7:27 PM by Ardri
Dealinjah wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:17 PM
faster you kill less chance you got to be zerged its like that maybe im i dont know what im talking about because im only playing 17 H a day a stealther

You do realize that the change is from 101 buffs to 83 buffs. We're talking 18 less quick so you might swing at ~2.2spd instead of ~2.0spd? And you hit for ~170 mh instead of ~180 mh?

And you're right, you probably don't know what you're talking about because all you do in life is play a stealther in daoc for 17/hr a day.
Wed 1 May 2019 7:27 PM by Keelia
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:16 PM
Jacksontown wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:09 PM
Even if this is a nerf to Alb, Hib is by far the most underpopulated realm at most times of the day

not underpopulted if you count all shrooms in animists cast at fights.. and with using their bugs its pretty even out to the other realms.. or at least Albion.
The answer is 15 shrooms. 2 animist can put up 15 pets of any combination. Thugs can pet spam to infinity. Not to mention their pets chase at speed 6 and somehow don’t break the thugs sos when they run and their pets are still attacking.
Wed 1 May 2019 7:29 PM by Cruella
Ashenspire wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:17 PM
If you don't want buff bots, then don't have buff bots. Don't call them something else instead,


Just get rid off buffcrap alltogether.
Wed 1 May 2019 7:29 PM by Rexoo
Tharlin wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:54 PM
I would prefer to remove all that buff potions.

Buffs should be a thing if you are grouped with a buffer or if your class can self buff. Nothing else!

100% True
Wed 1 May 2019 7:31 PM by Cythraul
Just adding +1 to removal of all buff potions. This is getting silly.
Wed 1 May 2019 7:31 PM by Dealinjah
Ardri wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:27 PM
Dealinjah wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:17 PM
faster you kill less chance you got to be zerged its like that maybe im i dont know what im talking about because im only playing 17 H a day a stealther

You do realize that the change is from 101 buffs to 83 buffs. We're talking 18 less quick so you might swing at ~2.2spd instead of ~2.0spd? And you hit for ~170 mh instead of ~180 mh?

And you're right, you probably don't know what you're talking about because all you do in life is play a stealther in daoc for 17/hr a day.

and lose evade rate too .... 18 in Str/con/dex/quick isnt huge ? so why we all choose augmented dex or str etc if 18 stats are not important ? we should all go to toughness 9 instead ?

you can argument ever and ever you will not stop me thinking one things :

i participate to beta and choose my class with big attention seeing what i will be able to do or not do and today they want to implement something it will change this satement so YES im not happy about this change and i feel its a missrespect thats all

it started like that on uthgard wait and see
Wed 1 May 2019 7:33 PM by Auranyte
Ardri wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:07 PM
This is a massive QoL improvement so solo's don't have to juggle 3 spec charges and casters don't have to juggle 2. And now every noob who never charged spec af gets it for free. Everyone is still on the same playing field, except self buff classes actually re-gain a small advantage they always should have had.

Did all of you secretly love charging every 2 minutes ad infinitum every time you RvR'd? Baffling the amount of noobs crying in this thread.

Now the 20% secondary resists is a different discussion. Imo it's going to be busted op, but we will have to wait and see. 20% secondary magic resists is the equivalent to free AoM 9. My guess is 10% would be much more balanced.

As a ranger who has self buffs, this is not an advantage for me anymore. Speccing to 40 in pathfinding nets me 2 (TWO) more dex/qui over the new pot value. Speccing 48 gets me 10 points more. Depending on the value of the spec af they are going to put on the potion, this little value for tons of spec points might carry over to it as well. The str buff in my line doesn't get better than the potion until 30 spec as well.


If there are no changes to the self buffer delve values, I'm just going to drop the points I had in PF and put them into melee cause thats what an "archer" does on this server, melee. (bow is laughable with the reactive procs interrupting)

I think only Thane and Aug Healers are the only self buffers that aren't affected by this since their delve values are much better than the pots/charges depending on how high they went in their lines. Friars, Rangers, Hunters, and Champions aren't helped much if at all by this change as things stand currently. Well as I stated above, Rangers can ignore PF like they did with buffbots back in the day. Poor hunters, if they go BC just for the top insta doggy, their dex/qui buff they get is worse than the pots now instead of barely being better.
Wed 1 May 2019 7:36 PM by necrolove1
WIll all buffs on Necromancer now transer to pet? or what?
Wed 1 May 2019 7:37 PM by Menfany
Keelia wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:27 PM
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:16 PM
Jacksontown wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:09 PM
Even if this is a nerf to Alb, Hib is by far the most underpopulated realm at most times of the day

not underpopulted if you count all shrooms in animists cast at fights.. and with using their bugs its pretty even out to the other realms.. or at least Albion.
The answer is 15 shrooms. 2 animist can put up 15 pets of any combination. Thugs can pet spam to infinity. Not to mention their pets chase at speed 6 and somehow don’t break the thugs sos when they run and their pets are still attacking.

You just have no clue.
1. Theurgs have a limit to pets.
2. Theurgs need LoS to cast their pets.. guess what happens if you try this at a keepfight... i mean even the hib shrooms NOT casting through the wals.. what the do almost constantly at keep fights these days... but if you try to cast on anything.. you get stun/nuked... so NO THEURG PETS in keep fights..
3. stop telling bullshit if you are not sure about what you talking
Wed 1 May 2019 7:41 PM by Yokahu
What about damage shield, is it now included in the combined forces as well?
Wed 1 May 2019 7:43 PM by Dealinjah
Yokahu wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:41 PM
What about damage shield, is it now included in the combined forces as well?

may i have a proc heal offensive and desensive , 1 add damage and an abs buff pls all ine the same pots

celerity would be nice also..............
Wed 1 May 2019 7:43 PM by Roto23
Cruella wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:05 PM
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:35 PM
4. Add spec AF to bards and healer



when you give mid and hib spec af...put the buff onshaman and druid and not healer and bard ! why would you put a spec buff on a non-specbuffing class? whats the reason behind that anyway? because its "live like"? please enlighten me
well, lots of healers spec aug for celerity and resists. I don't know what bards spec, prolly 50 terd and more insta amnesia
Wed 1 May 2019 7:46 PM by Cruella
Roto23 wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:43 PM
Cruella wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:05 PM
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:35 PM
4. Add spec AF to bards and healer



when you give mid and hib spec af...put the buff onshaman and druid and not healer and bard ! why would you put a spec buff on a non-specbuffing class? whats the reason behind that anyway? because its "live like"? please enlighten me
well, lots of healers spec aug for celerity and resists. I don't know what bards spec, prolly 50 terd and more insta amnesia

Your answer to my question makes absolute zero sense. Are bards and healers buffclasses now? no.
Wed 1 May 2019 7:47 PM by weewoozesty
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:37 PM
Keelia wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:27 PM
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:16 PM
not underpopulted if you count all shrooms in animists cast at fights.. and with using their bugs its pretty even out to the other realms.. or at least Albion.
The answer is 15 shrooms. 2 animist can put up 15 pets of any combination. Thugs can pet spam to infinity. Not to mention their pets chase at speed 6 and somehow don’t break the thugs sos when they run and their pets are still attacking.

You just have no clue.
1. Theurgs have a limit to pets.
2. Theurgs need LoS to cast their pets.. guess what happens if you try this at a keepfight... i mean even the hib shrooms NOT casting through the wals.. what the do almost constantly at keep fights these days... but if you try to cast on anything.. you get stun/nuked... so NO THEURG PETS in keep fights..
3. stop telling bullshit if you are not sure about what you talking

Thats not even the first problem with theurgs, biggest one being their pets are bugged. The lvl 25 Ice pet is the most hard hitting pet in the ice line and scales with you up till 50.
Wed 1 May 2019 7:47 PM by Freedomcall
Buff pots are indeed unfair to self buffing classes.
But it actually helps small men grps, such as duo or trio, viable.

"You should invite buff classes if you want buffs" yes, true.
But in reality, there aren't enough buff-class players that can join all those small man grps.
Wed 1 May 2019 7:48 PM by waffel
Big yikes. If this is the change the devs thought up over weeks then PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH ARCHERS. Archers are fine, perfectly fine. Look the other direction. Do not attempt to fix anything.
Wed 1 May 2019 7:53 PM by Roto23
Cruella wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:46 PM
Roto23 wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:43 PM
Cruella wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:05 PM
when you give mid and hib spec af...put the buff onshaman and druid and not healer and bard ! why would you put a spec buff on a non-specbuffing class? whats the reason behind that anyway? because its "live like"? please enlighten me
well, lots of healers spec aug for celerity and resists. I don't know what bards spec, prolly 50 terd and more insta amnesia

Your answer to my question makes absolute zero sense. Are bards and healers buffclasses now? no.
I'm trying to tell you that an Aug healer is and has always been common in Midgard. 8 mans in Mid have 1 pac healer and 1 aug healer in the grp. Bards still spec 50 terd though!
Wed 1 May 2019 7:55 PM by sabyrtuth
All sounds good except that 20% resist junk.
Wed 1 May 2019 7:56 PM by Seal
so...... you buff friar to increase his group value.....
you increase conc to classes to actually remove the use of a 3rd buffer on top of double cleric......
i dont see the point.....


can we have celerity CAST groupwise on friar ? (you wont increase his solo value you will increase his group one)
Wed 1 May 2019 7:56 PM by paul_g
Auranyte wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:33 PM
Ardri wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:07 PM
This is a massive QoL improvement so solo's don't have to juggle 3 spec charges and casters don't have to juggle 2. And now every noob who never charged spec af gets it for free. Everyone is still on the same playing field, except self buff classes actually re-gain a small advantage they always should have had.

Did all of you secretly love charging every 2 minutes ad infinitum every time you RvR'd? Baffling the amount of noobs crying in this thread.

Now the 20% secondary resists is a different discussion. Imo it's going to be busted op, but we will have to wait and see. 20% secondary magic resists is the equivalent to free AoM 9. My guess is 10% would be much more balanced.

As a ranger who has self buffs, this is not an advantage for me anymore. Speccing to 40 in pathfinding nets me 2 (TWO) more dex/qui over the new pot value. Speccing 48 gets me 10 points more. Depending on the value of the spec af they are going to put on the potion, this little value for tons of spec points might carry over to it as well. The str buff in my line doesn't get better than the potion until 30 spec as well.


If there are no changes to the self buffer delve values, I'm just going to drop the points I had in PF and put them into melee cause thats what an "archer" does on this server, melee. (bow is laughable with the reactive procs interrupting)

I think only Thane and Aug Healers are the only self buffers that aren't affected by this since their delve values are much better than the pots/charges depending on how high they went in their lines. Friars, Rangers, Hunters, and Champions aren't helped much if at all by this change as things stand currently. Well as I stated above, Rangers can ignore PF like they did with buffbots back in the day. Poor hunters, if they go BC just for the top insta doggy, their dex/qui buff they get is worse than the pots now instead of barely being better.



how will it effect mastery of arcane for rangers?
Wed 1 May 2019 7:58 PM by ashmir_daoc
I haven't read through 15 pages but feel I have to weigh in:

I like the conc increase. Thank you!
I like the removal of the 20 buff limit. Thank you!

The increase on the combined forces pot doesn't really excite me or incite me, as it's not part of my regular use.

On the other hand, I absolutely abhor the change to the s/c & d/q items. Leave that as an option for people who use them. There are good reasons to use them other than saving your buffer conc, both in rvr & pve. Off the top of my head, four reasons:

1) It gives you a chance to get one buff up after a rez. One buff isn't overpowering, but it can be a lot of help.
2) It allows you to run with (at least) one buff up that you don't have to worry about dropping should your buffer die. Often, other support will charge d/q so that if the nurture druid or shaman go down, the disaster of losing the entire group's buffs is felt less.
3) It limits spec options. A nurture druid can go 40 regrowth and 36 nurture to get the cure nearsight and the group can charge the d/q instead of using the druid's blue d/q. With the proposed change, nurture druids will HAVE to spec at least 39 nurture to get yellow d/q to make up for what was lost and in turn not have access to cure nearsight. So a set group with 2 druids might have one cure nearsight while pugs will be hit much harder. This is not a friendly change to either the tryhard groups or the casual groups.
4) In pve, sometimes I like to use my charge items because there's no option of a buffer around. The buff to the combined forces pot is nice, but 10 gold for a recharge vs the cost of a combined reforces barrel? Big difference.

There are more reasons, but I don't want this to turn even longer.

Please do not go forward with this part of the change. This is, to be blunt, a terrible idea. If you want to add the 30 seconds of higher magic and/or melee resist charges, do so on an existing item with no charge, please, or create something new. Don't change existing items. Doing that is a fast way to piss off & run off your playerbase.

Good day.
Wed 1 May 2019 8:01 PM by Eidorf
Excellent changes overall, kudos to the devs
Wed 1 May 2019 8:01 PM by Sixin2082
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:28 PM
So WHY give them MORE conc to buff.. whil Alb still have the same buffs..
And even GIVE HIB/MID Spec AF.. while Alb STILL have no ENDU Buff?
Can we take a moment to appreciate "Alb has no Endo buff"

Seriously though, we should be removing buff pots, if for no other reason than so that paladins can get groups again.
Wed 1 May 2019 8:03 PM by Foofmonger
Everything is fine except the 20% resist.

Giving everyone BOF/BA 3 on self/on demand every 10 minutes is a ludicrously stupid change to DAOC that will increase the TTK significant and fundamentally change how to play DAOC. Don't do this, its retarded, drop the resists idea, just a bad bad idea.

As someone who has both charge items, I'd literally rather you delete the items off of the server then make them give you 20% resists, and give me no feathers back. Heck, I'll even give you an extra 20k feathers per item if you don't do this resist change.
Wed 1 May 2019 8:03 PM by teiloh
Cruella wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:05 PM
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:35 PM
4. Add spec AF to bards and healer



when you give mid and hib spec af...put the buff onshaman and druid and not healer and bard ! why would you put a spec buff on a non-specbuffing class? whats the reason behind that anyway? because its "live like"? please enlighten me

To buff Hib and Mid
Wed 1 May 2019 8:08 PM by SlowMo
And what are you planning to change for selfbuffing classes? You know they have selfbuffs for a reason, right?

It would be a big fat middlefinger right in the face of all selfbuff classes.


And then what next? Endu buff for all realms?
The differences is what makes daoc such a great game.
Wed 1 May 2019 8:17 PM by waffel
SlowMo wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 8:08 PM
And what are you planning to change for selfbuffing classes? You know they have selfbuffs for a reason, right?

It would be a big fat middlefinger right in the face of all selfbuff classes.


And then what next? Endu buff for all realms?
The differences is what makes daoc such a great game.

PF got gutted and is now even worse. Spec AF in Pathfinding is 100% worthless. Spec Str is only better than combined at 50 Pathfinding, and the dex/quick buff requires 40 pathfinding to be 2 better than combined.
Literally the line now consists of a run speed buff on a 10 minute cooldown and a damage add (that you can get from a charge)

I'm not going to even bother asking for a free respec on my Ranger since that'll never happen.
Wed 1 May 2019 8:19 PM by Keelia
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:37 PM
Keelia wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:27 PM
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:16 PM
not underpopulted if you count all shrooms in animists cast at fights.. and with using their bugs its pretty even out to the other realms.. or at least Albion.
The answer is 15 shrooms. 2 animist can put up 15 pets of any combination. Thugs can pet spam to infinity. Not to mention their pets chase at speed 6 and somehow don’t break the thugs sos when they run and their pets are still attacking.

You just have no clue.
1. Theurgs have a limit to pets.
2. Theurgs need LoS to cast their pets.. guess what happens if you try this at a keepfight... i mean even the hib shrooms NOT casting through the wals.. what the do almost constantly at keep fights these days... but if you try to cast on anything.. you get stun/nuked... so NO THEURG PETS in keep fights..
3. stop telling bullshit if you are not sure about what you talking

Cry more about animist maybe you’ll get them nerfed even more. Seems to be how this server works. Get enough to whine and cry about the same thing and the devs fold to the cry babies. And I’m talking from experience seeing as every alb group has at min one thug. 1 in maybe 10 hib groups run amid. Then if you had 10 groups who run them maybe 1 actually knows what they are doing with them. On a side not Thug pets chasing at speed 6 when SoSed is stupid and needs to be fixed.
Wed 1 May 2019 8:26 PM by Lanfear
while im not happy with the changes (but i knew, my suggestion would not come true), i think making it no different if i get my Buffs from a barrel or a shaman is a somekind of good thing?

i dont know. i personally find the buffing line stupid anyway, and not needing to put skillpoints in it will be a huge benefit for the qualitiy of time playing a shaman (Cave/Mend here i come). dont get me wrong, i dont think there will be a reason left to put skillpoints into the aug line, but thats a good thing in my book.


i dislike the 20% charges. as others stated, i think they will be important to have in a fight.
Wed 1 May 2019 8:39 PM by teiloh
Keelia wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 8:19 PM
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:37 PM
Keelia wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:27 PM
The answer is 15 shrooms. 2 animist can put up 15 pets of any combination. Thugs can pet spam to infinity. Not to mention their pets chase at speed 6 and somehow don’t break the thugs sos when they run and their pets are still attacking.

You just have no clue.
1. Theurgs have a limit to pets.
2. Theurgs need LoS to cast their pets.. guess what happens if you try this at a keepfight... i mean even the hib shrooms NOT casting through the wals.. what the do almost constantly at keep fights these days... but if you try to cast on anything.. you get stun/nuked... so NO THEURG PETS in keep fights..
3. stop telling bullshit if you are not sure about what you talking

Cry more about animist maybe you’ll get them nerfed even more. Seems to be how this server works. Get enough to whine and cry about the same thing and the devs fold to the cry babies. And I’m talking from experience seeing as every alb group has at min one thug. 1 in maybe 10 hib groups run amid. Then if you had 10 groups who run them maybe 1 actually knows what they are doing with them. On a side not Thug pets chasing at speed 6 when SoSed is stupid and needs to be fixed.

Yep, the fix is to go back to 1.65 where only minstrels had SoS.
Wed 1 May 2019 8:48 PM by Keelia
teiloh wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 8:39 PM
Keelia wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 8:19 PM
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:37 PM
You just have no clue.
1. Theurgs have a limit to pets.
2. Theurgs need LoS to cast their pets.. guess what happens if you try this at a keepfight... i mean even the hib shrooms NOT casting through the wals.. what the do almost constantly at keep fights these days... but if you try to cast on anything.. you get stun/nuked... so NO THEURG PETS in keep fights..
3. stop telling bullshit if you are not sure about what you talking

Cry more about animist maybe you’ll get them nerfed even more. Seems to be how this server works. Get enough to whine and cry about the same thing and the devs fold to the cry babies. And I’m talking from experience seeing as every alb group has at min one thug. 1 in maybe 10 hib groups run amid. Then if you had 10 groups who run them maybe 1 actually knows what they are doing with them. On a side not Thug pets chasing at speed 6 when SoSed is stupid and needs to be fixed.

Yep, the fix is to go back to 1.65 where only minstrels had SoS.

Cool so druids get GP back, I’ll take the trade.
Wed 1 May 2019 8:57 PM by Numatic
Do not do the resist charges please. They are too high and it will make it worse because it will be just another must have you have to fire off everytime you get in a fight. If it was 5% then it would be useful but not mandatory.

The problem is the mandatory aspect of it. So right now we have to worry about juggling buffs on a 10min timer. Now we will have to worry about firing off charges in every fight. You thought the gold cost was an issue before? Even if you made it a 10min reuse timer then it makes people way OP in a situational confrontation and removes them from the game for 10mins until charges come back.

Noone will fight without that available.

I'm fine with the conc and buff limit change. But man, I just cant wrap my head around the charge changes. I mean it helps me since I solo and duo but to what extent? The change it will have on the rest of the gameplay for others is going to be bad.

The problem is balancing around buffs was normal on mythic because everyone had a buffbot but that's not the case here. With the changes to buffs you might as well allow buff bots. It would make it easier on everyone at this point. But then again that's not something I want either.

The fact is, is that anyone below an 8man gets tired of being rolled by 8 mans. But if you took away buff pots entirely then that's all you would have running around (and away from each other apparently) and no casuals left.

I enjoy running solo/duo as it is. Is there still some things seriously broken with it? Yes but I deal.

Honestly, I think if you are solo/duo etc you should have a flat damage reduction/ damage increase depending on how many attackers are attacking you. Might make those 8mans running over soloers a bit more reluctant when their nuke hits for 25 dmg lol.
Wed 1 May 2019 9:00 PM by Strikejk
Can you make a a clarification post about the buff-changes please? Mainly:
-Which version of haste will the new combined buff potion use?
-Will already made combined buff potions be automatically upgraded to the new one?
-Will the new combined buff potion be a new recipe or replace the old recipe?
-Will already bought items with s/c & d/q charges be upgraded to use the new charges?
-Will all other already existing buff potions be automatically upgraded to the new delve value?
Wed 1 May 2019 9:02 PM by Ebenezer
Cruella wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:05 PM
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:35 PM
4. Add spec AF to bards and healer



when you give mid and hib spec af...put the buff onshaman and druid and not healer and bard ! why would you put a spec buff on a non-specbuffing class? whats the reason behind that anyway? because its "live like"? please enlighten me

Would make more sense to move alb specAF to friars.
Wed 1 May 2019 9:06 PM by Mauriac
This proposal is shit. This smacks of something Blue would do. Let's take a realistic look at how this will play out.

1) it doesn't truly do anything to the buff situation except

a) make casters harder to kill for meleers
b) make grouped players unkillable for soloers

2) why don't you just bring in ToA items at this point? 20% melee damage resist? Wtf is that why not just bring in Malice Axe or Battler and call it a day? In solo fights it's going to come down to who has their IWin button up and who doesn't. Thanks for taking a massive steamy shit on solo game play.

3) READ THIS PART

"NO ONE IS GOING TO COME BACK TO PHOENIX BECAUSE OF THESE CHANGES, BUT PEOPLE WILL LEAVE OVER THEM"

Fact.
Wed 1 May 2019 9:09 PM by Mauriac
Tharlin wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:42 PM
Just a question: Why should a self buff class spec self buffs if everyone gets the same benefit from potions? :-(

Probably because the game design from day one is fucked and without potions or buffs the self buffing classes would destroy everyone. It's an unfortunate problem with the game design
Wed 1 May 2019 9:09 PM by Auranyte
paul_g wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:56 PM
how will it effect mastery of arcane for rangers?

MoArcane didn't make a huge difference in all honesty.

But with current delve values of our buffs, zero MoArcane, and assuming that the spec af that will be put on the pots is the same as other spec values (ie: 50)...

If Spec AF is 50 value on pot. The level 23 AF buff would be equal to it. 40*1.25=50. Level 31 would be 50*1.25=62(.5).
33 Base Str means the level 20 buff is worse than the pot by 1 point. 26*1.25=32(.5). Level 30 would be 34*1.25=42(.5).
50 Spec Dex/Qui means the level 40 buff beats the pot by 2 points. 42*1.25=52(.5). Level 48 would be 48*1.25=60

So you could go 31 points into PF and have slightly better STR and Spec AF, but your Dex/Qui buff requires 48 points to be even remotely worthwhile. (hint: it won;'t be worthwhile)

Sadly the Hunter/Ranger dex/qui buffs didn't get their values increased until 1.69. Then on live they rolled the buffs into new "spellcasting" archery line, which gave Scouts the same buffs. (And removed our damage add)
Wed 1 May 2019 9:11 PM by labra
Con and buff limit removal are nice.

Buff pots and other changes will lead to the death of some other classes. Rangers were almost done with PF, now it's a dead end.
Friars will be next with champions maybe.

I'd suggest you remove buffpots.
Introduce an adapted version of champion level, maybe through a quick quest, so everyone can have access to small buff but selfbuff classes still have an edge and buffing classes are still on top.
Wed 1 May 2019 9:15 PM by Ashenspire
I'm very confused by the Albion doesnt have End buff comments I'm seeing all over the place.
Wed 1 May 2019 9:15 PM by vxr
Why all these changes? If your listening to the community, the community does not want this.

All we want is:
1 - Longer buff pots (+2 to +10 minutes).
2 - Longer Charges (+2 to +10 minutes).
3 - Cheaper charges. Debatable.
4 - Remove charge timers. Debatable.
5 - Remove combined pots RvR timer. That's just silly.

That's it. Simple changes.
But before of any of that, I believe the community would like you to fix w/e is still broken from last patch. For example PK doors not working.

Thank you. I really hope you reconsider.


edit: incremental changes to the buff timers might be best. Add two minutes and see how it plays out. Then add another 2-3 minutes. etc.
Wed 1 May 2019 9:21 PM by Isatis
labra wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 9:11 PM
Introduce an adapted version of champion level, maybe through a quick quest, so everyone can have access to small buff but selfbuff classes still have an edge and buffing classes are still on top.

Was thinking the same thing. That's the way it was on classic servers.
Wed 1 May 2019 9:23 PM by florin
Staff: we can’t reach consensus, pls advice
Players: pleas take it slow baby
Staff: engage ludicrous speed, we gone plaid biatches!
Wed 1 May 2019 9:27 PM by Trisha2019
While we are at all this Potion, Buffs, etc .. HOW ABOUT LVL 40 End potions? -- How is my minstrel suppose to twist pet song and sprint with a group if no pally in the group? Run out of End very quickly! PLEASE Give us the Yellow 40 End Potions --
Any changes that are needed THIS would be one that everyone would agree with!
Wed 1 May 2019 9:29 PM by Pbuck
My 2 cents :
1)Its already extremely difficult/painful trying to run as solo/smallmen during hours approaching prime time, getting 1-2 kills if lucky before getting added/zerged is not uncommon. Reducing the damage of soloers/smallmen that lack natural buffers and as a consequence increasing the kill time, increases the risk of adds and therefore encourages people to zerg more( as others have stated) , a playstyle that many abhore , but which is a still a necessity during prime time. It will get worse if these changes go through.

2)The major reason for these changes is because some people complained that charging is expensive and painful. This makes little sense to me. It is very easy to level a second farming class and farm 3-4 p /hour , which is a gold quantity large enough to last for a week( a week where one plays several hours per day and charges 4 buffs- s/c, spec af, ablative and d/q. Also as an active soloer/small man player you will get a lot of bounty points which you can then sell for plats. As an example I will mention my rr11 mincer, who i spend tons of plats on charges, and even though I have played it almost 24/7 the last few weeks, charging non-stop every two mins, I still made tons of plats with ZERO farm, just by selling bps. In fact I'm at a point where i'm sitting at 50 plats and haven't done any farming in weeks( still have tons of bounty points). So to the devs. Please stop listening to people who complain about charges being expensive. It's clear that they are wrong and don't know what they are talking about.
3) The other biggest issue with managing charges was that you constantly had to check timers to micromanage them correctly and not lose any seconds when off cooldown. This is improved in the latest patch, because now you can actually see how much remaining time you still have on the buffs, What is STILL missing , is a timer that shows how many seconds your charge item still NEEDS to go off cooldown. Similar to the timer on our RAS that show how much time they need to be available again( we have that).That's it.

Tldr; Only change needed Is some better ui on charge item cooldown( we got the one we needed on buff remaining duration). Any other change , especially the 20% melee /magic resist, has the potential to break the game even further in some expected or unexpected way and piss off alot of people, so I would advice against it.

Dec, rr11 minstrel.
Wed 1 May 2019 9:36 PM by florin
Pbuck wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 9:29 PM
My 2 cents :
1)Its already extremely difficult/painful trying to run as solo/smallmen during hours approaching prime time, getting 1-2 kills if lucky before getting added/zerged is not uncommon. Reducing the damage of soloers/smallmen that lack natural buffers and as a consequence increasing the kill time, increases the risk of adds and therefore encourages people to zerg more( as others have stated) , a playstyle that many abhore , but which is a still a necessity during prime time. It will get worse if these changes go through.

2)The major reason for these changes is because some people complained that charging is expensive and painful. This makes little sense to me. It is very easy to level a second farming class and farm 3-4 p /hour , which is a gold quantity large enough to last for a week( a week where one plays several hours per day and charges 4 buffs- s/c, spec af, ablative and d/q. Also as an active soloer/small man player you will get a lot of bounty points which you can then sell for plats. As an example I will mention my rr11 mincer, who i spend tons of plats on charges, and even though I have played it almost 24/7 the last few weeks, charging non-stop every two mins, I still made tons of plats with ZERO farm, just by selling bps. In fact I'm at a point where i'm sitting at 50 plats and haven't done any farming in weeks( still have tons of bounty points). So to the devs. Please stop listening to people who complain about charges being expensive. It's clear that they are wrong and don't know what they are talking about.
3) The other biggest issue with managing charges was that you constantly had to check timers to micromanage them correctly and not lose any seconds when off cooldown. This is improved in the latest patch, because now you can actually see how much remaining time you still have on the buffs, What is STILL missing , is a timer that shows how many seconds your charge item still NEEDS to go off cooldown. Similar to the timer on our RAS that show how much time they need to be available again( we have that).That's it.

Tldr; Only change needed Is some better ui on charge item cooldown( we got the one we needed on buff remaining duration). Any other change , especially the 20% melee /magic resist, has the potential to break the game even further in some expected or unexpected way and piss off alot of people, so I would advice against it.

Dec, rr11 minstrel.

Banned Catgirlpig and Pbuk

#1x-realming, both accounts for 3 days

waiitttt now - is you same same?
Wed 1 May 2019 9:40 PM by Pbuck
florin wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 9:36 PM
Banned Catgirlpig and Pbuk

#1x-realming, both accounts for 3 days

waiitttt now - is you same same?

It isn't but please stick to the point.
Wed 1 May 2019 9:50 PM by Riac
the selfbuffing class argument is so lame, charges and buff potions have been in the game for forever, sorry you didnt pick a better class. as easy as it is to lvl here there isnt much keeping you from leveling a useful class. these people are the minority. what is one self buffing class that their whole identity revolves around their selfbuffs?

the amount of over complicated bullshit in this thread is insane. there are easy fixes. make charges/buffs last for a longer period of time or just add npc bots. no one wants to play this game unbuffed its painfully slow and not fun. hell, you could just turn everyone into vampiirs and im sure no one would care. we are just trying to rvr and kill each other. fucken with buff pots and charges is not a "fun and interactive" portion of this game. no matter how much you want to assign value to it, no one is ever going to consider it enjoyable. just make it enjoyable. the solution is so obvious i think its quite amazing that the devs choose to ignore it. talking about increasing the duration of the charges will just exacerbate the problem. fucken LOL. even if the charges were made to cost less it would still be a huge pain in the ass, 10 mins isnt long enough to go afk for a piss when you factor in the time it takes to get 3 charges up and rolling. this gives me 4 minutes of active hunting time on my SB before i need to get to a spot to recharge. "well you could just rvr with out 3 charges"... no, im not running all the way to where ever just to lose a fight to a person who is actually running all the charges, fuck that. id easily pay a premium at the recharger for longer duration. ppl say this is unfair to casuals, well im sorry i have the money and you don't. not like there is anything else to spend it on. as far as the feather items go, shits a sunk cost... sorry....

you could even propose this as some sort of event for the weekend to see how it goes. my money is on that everyone will love it. sure, there will be one of two ppl that dislike it. however, i bet if you thumbed through their post history they dislike pretty much everything.
Wed 1 May 2019 10:15 PM by Norad
instead of juggling charges in solos/small mans it will just make people having to juggle the new magic/melee resist charge. whoever has it up will do better/have advantage similar to whoever had more charge buffs juggled, people will just afk more since the charge is so important. doesnt solve any issue, it causes more because everyone will need to have these charges based on how strong they are.
Wed 1 May 2019 10:22 PM by gruenesschaf
Norad wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 10:15 PM
instead of juggling charges in solos/small mans it will just make people having to juggle the new magic/melee resist charge. whoever has it up will do better/have advantage similar to whoever had more charge buffs juggled, people will just afk more since the charge is so important. doesnt solve any issue, it causes more because everyone will need to have these charges based on how strong they are.

It's a low duration cd and as such intended to be used in combat and therefore competing with the legion heal charge item, in case of solo the effects will be rather close. It being ready is not really something to be too concerned about.
Wed 1 May 2019 10:23 PM by teiloh
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 10:22 PM

Hi gruenes,

Will these resist charges work on Necro pets?
Wed 1 May 2019 10:25 PM by Riac
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 10:22 PM
Norad wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 10:15 PM
instead of juggling charges in solos/small mans it will just make people having to juggle the new magic/melee resist charge. whoever has it up will do better/have advantage similar to whoever had more charge buffs juggled, people will just afk more since the charge is so important. doesnt solve any issue, it causes more because everyone will need to have these charges based on how strong they are.

It's a low duration cd and as such intended to be used in combat and therefore competing with the legion heal charge item, in case of solo the effects will be rather close. It being ready is not really something to be too concerned about.

an additional charge item is such a garbage idea. especially considering legion heal is already competing w/ s/c - d/q - af charges as a solo running. unless youre going to put them on separate timers it just makes 0 sense. just increase the durations, its all you have to do. we dont need extra shit.....
Wed 1 May 2019 10:27 PM by florin
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 10:22 PM
Norad wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 10:15 PM
instead of juggling charges in solos/small mans it will just make people having to juggle the new magic/melee resist charge. whoever has it up will do better/have advantage similar to whoever had more charge buffs juggled, people will just afk more since the charge is so important. doesnt solve any issue, it causes more because everyone will need to have these charges based on how strong they are.

It's a low duration cd and as such intended to be used in combat and therefore competing with the legion heal charge item, in case of solo the effects will be rather close. It being ready is not really something to be too concerned about.

So this is a solo nerf - lose overall stats and what we gain is negated by an item we already have - whole groups can run the resist and get healed same time.

Meh
Wed 1 May 2019 10:27 PM by gruenesschaf
Riac wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 10:25 PM
an additional charge item is such a garbage idea. especially considering legion heal is already competing w/ s/c - d/q - af charges as a solo running. unless youre going to put them on separate timers it just makes 0 sense. just increase the durations, its all you have to do. we dont need extra shit.....

did you even read the initial post?
Wed 1 May 2019 10:28 PM by Strikejk
Endu potions should be buffed, including the ones in combined forces. Considering Alb has the biggest problem of getting endu5 in groups this would be a welcome counterbalance and QoL change to the specc AF change. Please consider this
Wed 1 May 2019 10:29 PM by Bradekes
The only way I can see this change being accepted is if the RA point requirements for Mastery of the Arcane is drastically reduced allowing self buff classes to still have the advantage of buffing vs other classes. Maybe remove it as an option for certain classes who don't have self buffs Valewalker/Paladin/ETC...
Wed 1 May 2019 10:29 PM by Emeryc
Tharlin wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:54 PM
I would prefer to remove all that buff potions.

Buffs should be a thing if you are grouped with a buffer or if your class can self buff. Nothing else!

This. End of story. End of all this silly balancing/rebalancing.
Wed 1 May 2019 10:29 PM by djegu
Instead of giving resist bonus on charge items, why not giving rp/bp bonus for 10mn? for example 15% rps bonus and 15%BPs Bonus.
People will not be forced to run these to be competitive but are still nice enough to run these.
Also make BPs exchangeable for Feathers and add more Reskins.
Wed 1 May 2019 10:32 PM by Catholocate
Tharlin wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:54 PM
I would prefer to remove all that buff potions.

Buffs should be a thing if you are grouped with a buffer or if your class can self buff. Nothing else!

This should be implemented
Wed 1 May 2019 10:37 PM by Keelia
Catholocate wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 10:32 PM
Tharlin wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:54 PM
I would prefer to remove all that buff potions.

Buffs should be a thing if you are grouped with a buffer or if your class can self buff. Nothing else!

This should be implemented

Agreed, all pot and charge buffs need to be removed.
Wed 1 May 2019 10:38 PM by Strikejk
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:35 PM
The goals behind these changes are:
1) If you are grouped with a buffer you are buffed by the buffer and don't need to use any charges / potions except for maybe useless things like str on caster

Goal 1 and 2 should be achieved without changing the currently achievable stats too much, some changes are fine however. Goal 3 should be achieved without making it something you always have to have up and juggle the timer or potentially waste upfront.

To achieve the first goal:
1. Increase the available conc by 25%
2. Remove 20 buff cap
3. Small delve increase to the acuity buff
4. Add spec AF to bards and healer
5. Add endu buff to Cleric and Friar

Edited main quote with suggestion to properly achieve the set goal, see highlighted parts in the text.
Wed 1 May 2019 10:43 PM by hend
So we are breaking the whole game for few mongos who complains cause charges are too expensive ?
Wed 1 May 2019 10:47 PM by phixion
I do not like the idea of messing with stat buff amounts.

The buffs have always had the same amount, at this rate we lose 18 in each stat, something which will be very expensive to make up with RAs.

When you start messing with core stats... Is it even DAoC anymore?

You've gone from changing the way charges work to actually nerfing buffs.

A friend said he had a feeling you were going to remove charges all together, I thought he was overreacting... But it seems your true intent was to nerf buffs.

Just combine charges buff stats with buff pots.
Wed 1 May 2019 11:00 PM by Citian
Separate timers for everything please.
Wed 1 May 2019 11:00 PM by Mavella
Just make combined forces give the stats of the spec charges and add the AF buff all in one shot. Keep the 1 min RvR timer.

Keep Str/con dex/qui aquity as indepentent charges if people need to pop them after a res. Damage add and legion heart can share a 10 minute cooldown so it's impactful once In a while as they currently are. They shouldn't be involved in every single fight. This also allows for an impactful cooldown for low RRs before they can get more toys as they rank up.

Hard no to 20% resist cooldowns.

There is nothing wrong with the current system but can certainly be streamlined. I'm sure this post will fall on deaf ears however. I can't wait to see how comical inflation gets once people aren't spending as many plats on charges/pots.

K.I.S.S.
Wed 1 May 2019 11:06 PM by Riac
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 10:27 PM
Riac wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 10:25 PM
an additional charge item is such a garbage idea. especially considering legion heal is already competing w/ s/c - d/q - af charges as a solo running. unless youre going to put them on separate timers it just makes 0 sense. just increase the durations, its all you have to do. we dont need extra shit.....

did you even read the initial post?

I had to reread it and I think that's a pretty good solution actually. Gj imo. Although I'd almost rather the melee and magic resists not be there at all, but over all its good.
Wed 1 May 2019 11:12 PM by Lordzolio
There is NEVER going to be a happy medium on Buffs here.

So there are only 2 options. Keep them or No buffs at all.
Wed 1 May 2019 11:14 PM by Monkies
Longest beta ever.

Monkies/Dogbyte
Wed 1 May 2019 11:18 PM by The Skies Asunder
Just refund the charge items that have been purchased, with feathers, or plat. No need to add in a 20% resist buff, as it just makes it another must have item anyway.

Removing potions and charges entirely, adding buff NPCs, or allowing buffbots seems like a much easier solution to these problems.
Wed 1 May 2019 11:20 PM by Menfany
Keelia wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 8:19 PM
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:37 PM
Keelia wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:27 PM
The answer is 15 shrooms. 2 animist can put up 15 pets of any combination. Thugs can pet spam to infinity. Not to mention their pets chase at speed 6 and somehow don’t break the thugs sos when they run and their pets are still attacking.

You just have no clue.
1. Theurgs have a limit to pets.
2. Theurgs need LoS to cast their pets.. guess what happens if you try this at a keepfight... i mean even the hib shrooms NOT casting through the wals.. what the do almost constantly at keep fights these days... but if you try to cast on anything.. you get stun/nuked... so NO THEURG PETS in keep fights..
3. stop telling bullshit if you are not sure about what you talking

Cry more about animist maybe you’ll get them nerfed even more. Seems to be how this server works. Get enough to whine and cry about the same thing and the devs fold to the cry babies. And I’m talking from experience seeing as every alb group has at min one thug. 1 in maybe 10 hib groups run amid. Then if you had 10 groups who run them maybe 1 actually knows what they are doing with them. On a side not Thug pets chasing at speed 6 when SoSed is stupid and needs to be fixed.

Wrong.
Pointing on BUGS isnt "crying".. and i dont want them "nerfed" as you state... i want these bugs fixed... thats a big difference.
Also you doesnt seem to run RvR anyways.. because Alb groups dont run "all Theurgs".. thats just bullshit.
And to make you post completly nonsense... the point was keep fights.

So next time.. if you have no clue and dont stick to the point of discussion.. just shut up and keep this shit to yourself. Thx.
Wed 1 May 2019 11:23 PM by Menfany
Sixin2082 wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 8:01 PM
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:28 PM
So WHY give them MORE conc to buff.. whil Alb still have the same buffs..
And even GIVE HIB/MID Spec AF.. while Alb STILL have no ENDU Buff?
Can we take a moment to appreciate "Alb has no Endo buff"

Seriously though, we should be removing buff pots, if for no other reason than so that paladins can get groups again.

Would make it even worse... because you would waste another slot in group to a class noone needs except for endu buff.
I really dont understand why they gave Spec AF to Bard/Healer... and dont give Endu buff to Friar in the same way.. would even out the whole thing.. and surely wouldnt break the balancing.
Wed 1 May 2019 11:36 PM by Ambrosius Ocidric
OK - I read the original post asking for community support and I regret not participating. It's a complicated question that has a difficult balancing act and honestly I thought about it a lot but could never really settle on a solution I thought worthy of suggesting because they all have flaws.

However

Given the proposed changes posted, I think it's important to say this...
A small change that ultimately does not go far enough or simply has no effect is better than the risk that a large change changes too much and has either a negative effect on the game OR a strong negative reaction from the player base. Can always do a little and revisit later else pivot to a slight change in another direction

My solution
Despite the idea that this might exacerbate the problem, I think a slight decrease in the simple recharge cost to the user would be worth seeing the actual effect, if people really do charge more. It will at least satisfy the voice presumably calling for this in the first place. Also could couple this with perhaps a longer cd between charges so that you physically cannot charge more.
OR simply increase the existing elixir level potions as a sort of mid tier to be closer to yellow level rather than blue. That decreases the gap between the expensive red charges and cheaper potions but still has a benefit to the players to "have to have the best regardless". I get that it diminishes the relative value of the charges but I then refer you back to the "have to have the best regardless" mentality if the same players are complaining that they're going broke using charges.

Also my view is that buffbots were annoying but having to group them is just boring and that sort of a spec line imo should be more active but that's an entirely different rework conversation so I wouldn't care if every druid just specced nature/regrowth

Either way I think the changes proposed are a bit too drastic (esp the resist charges) and come with a lot of risk of shock to the game which isn't really that broken to begin with.
Wed 1 May 2019 11:42 PM by dante`afk
Bad change, not welcome.

a) keep it as it is, do not change anything
b) combine all buffs in one pot, make them permanent until death
c) remove all buffs

You don't want people to juggle on buff timers and items, yet with the 20% resist buff you force people (especially solo players) to use it before or within a fight. On top of that you nerf total stat gain.

What is it? This is a direct nerf to solo/smallman players.

Keep promoting zerg, RIP. Mauriac brought it to a good point in post #163.
Wed 1 May 2019 11:57 PM by Emeryc
-Remove all buff pots and charges.

-Double (or even triple) the increase of primary, secondary and tertiary stat increases gained by levelling. Hell, even make a fourth level stat increase for all other stats which would increase every 4 levels.

-Implement short duration (30 second) buff/charge items on 30 second timers so one or two may be used each fight, but not at the same time.

This whole debate is just ridiculous. Buffs are making this game about who has the right pots/charges available and not about the class, player or group dynamic.
Thu 2 May 2019 12:11 AM by Ferdi
pls add 100 charge haste potions
Thu 2 May 2019 12:16 AM by dbeattie71
Milchschnidde wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:01 PM
Playing a Ranger, i feel a bit fucked up ... i mean realy the only reason to spec into pathfinder is that breakable instant speed short duration combined with a dmg add thats not bad but thats all. I realy dont know what i should do now with the cheap Q/D selfbuff and str/con,that is now entirely useless....

The changes sound realy fun, but you didnt adress the selfbuffing classes issue ..., now the potions are OP and the selfbuffs more useless then before. If you settle the selfbuffs as Spec buffs with a halved value on top of buffpotion would be a great deal - even a value of 25% to stack with the buffpotion would be nice. ( if you read that you should try out how those things work)...

As for Ranger pls think about the possiblity to add a small group speed ( for small man stealther) same for Hunter(would improve the buff line a little).. Albion has ministrel for stealthparty with speed 6.

My whole build is based on 50 PF and only having to use S/C charges. /flush
Thu 2 May 2019 12:18 AM by cuuchulain79
Has there been 1 post in 20 pages that thinks 20% resist charges are a good idea?

And lol @ the Space balls joke.

What about NPC buffers that give combined schwartzes buff that lasts until death...and if you get rezzed, you can have a hit on your potion for the same thing?

Anyway, thanks for the work you all do...

Please don't do the 20% thing though lol

Edit: Can every lvl 50 get a free respec for career and realm skills? I feel bad for the post before mine with 50 PF.
Thu 2 May 2019 12:19 AM by waffel
So based on the dev post on this thread, the new change to dex/quick and str/con charge share the same cooldown as Legion heal?

So now I have 3 charged items (2x old dex/quick charge so I didn’t have to recharge constantly, and legion heart) but can and will only use one of them per fight?

Are you refunding players then? I don’t need 3 charged items when I can only use 1 per fight. Before I used dex/quick during buffing and heart in combat.
Thu 2 May 2019 12:21 AM by florin
cuuchulain79 wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 12:18 AM
Has there been 1 post in 20 pages that thinks 20% resist charges are a good idea?

And lol @ the Space balls joke.

What about NPC buffers that give combined schwartzes buff that lasts until death...and if you get rezzed, you can have a hit on your potion for the same thing?

Anyway, thanks for the work you all do...

Please don't do the 20% thing though lol

I see your combined schwartzes are as big as mine!
Thu 2 May 2019 12:23 AM by dbeattie71
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:16 PM
Jacksontown wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:09 PM
Even if this is a nerf to Alb, Hib is by far the most underpopulated realm at most times of the day

not underpopulted if you count all shrooms in animists cast at fights.. and with using their bugs its pretty even out to the other realms.. or at least Albion.
Boo hoo, I died to a plant lmao.
Thu 2 May 2019 12:28 AM by Prymer
One buff pot and done is fine but scrap the 20% resists, let us sell them for feather cost.
Thu 2 May 2019 12:30 AM by Griselda
This change is gonna ruin the server for me, why would you even consider such a thing? Who does it help? What imbalance does it adress? Its pure BS. We knew what game we signed up for you don't have to be Mythic 2.0 and mess up DAoC a second time by trying to balance a game where it is absolutely not necessary and takes away from its basic concept.
Thu 2 May 2019 12:39 AM by Pops999
Can't wait for the Law of Unintended Consequences to kick in. Meanwhile life goes on.
Thu 2 May 2019 12:44 AM by dbeattie71
Auranyte wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:33 PM
Ardri wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:07 PM
This is a massive QoL improvement so solo's don't have to juggle 3 spec charges and casters don't have to juggle 2. And now every noob who never charged spec af gets it for free. Everyone is still on the same playing field, except self buff classes actually re-gain a small advantage they always should have had.

Did all of you secretly love charging every 2 minutes ad infinitum every time you RvR'd? Baffling the amount of noobs crying in this thread.

Now the 20% secondary resists is a different discussion. Imo it's going to be busted op, but we will have to wait and see. 20% secondary magic resists is the equivalent to free AoM 9. My guess is 10% would be much more balanced.

As a ranger who has self buffs, this is not an advantage for me anymore. Speccing to 40 in pathfinding nets me 2 (TWO) more dex/qui over the new pot value. Speccing 48 gets me 10 points more. Depending on the value of the spec af they are going to put on the potion, this little value for tons of spec points might carry over to it as well. The str buff in my line doesn't get better than the potion until 30 spec as well.


If there are no changes to the self buffer delve values, I'm just going to drop the points I had in PF and put them into melee cause thats what an "archer" does on this server, melee. (bow is laughable with the reactive procs interrupting)

I think only Thane and Aug Healers are the only self buffers that aren't affected by this since their delve values are much better than the pots/charges depending on how high they went in their lines. Friars, Rangers, Hunters, and Champions aren't helped much if at all by this change as things stand currently. Well as I stated above, Rangers can ignore PF like they did with buffbots back in the day. Poor hunters, if they go BC just for the top insta doggy, their dex/qui buff they get is worse than the pots now instead of barely being better.

Yeah but we lose the dmg add and speed because everyone gets PF in a pot so buffing high PF doesn’t make sense.
Thu 2 May 2019 12:46 AM by Ceen
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 10:22 PM
Norad wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 10:15 PM
instead of juggling charges in solos/small mans it will just make people having to juggle the new magic/melee resist charge. whoever has it up will do better/have advantage similar to whoever had more charge buffs juggled, people will just afk more since the charge is so important. doesnt solve any issue, it causes more because everyone will need to have these charges based on how strong they are.

It's a low duration cd and as such intended to be used in combat and therefore competing with the legion heal charge item, in case of solo the effects will be rather close. It being ready is not really something to be too concerned about.
As many people already told you weeks ago the legion charges are already imba. But since no one had a free timer they weren't a big issue. Now you free up the timer and introduce even more imba items to balance the old imba once. Well not sure what to say
Thu 2 May 2019 12:52 AM by Gormenghast
Strikejk wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 11:34 PM


Paladins have endo, end of story.
Thu 2 May 2019 1:00 AM by lurker
Honestly things should stay as they are with some minor tweaks...

This change is TOO custom.

The buffing classes are fine as they are, each realm having different buffs and availability due to conc pool / grp setup is part of the charm of 1.65 daoc, not a problem.
Managing charges / timers on a solo is fine, assuming that its not something you have to do every few minutes.

Simple solution to the original problem:

Increase charge times to 20 mins.
Increase pot times to 20 mins.
Reduce the cost of recharge by 50%.
Reduce the feather cost of pots by some degree.

Leave pots / conc / everything else as it is.

There are more important less game changing things to look at.

I appreciate this is a custom server and not 1.65 but how much needs to change before its lost its 1.65 soul? :s
Thu 2 May 2019 1:04 AM by Ceen
Before charge change:
Most people ran 0-1 charges (grp)
Solo 2-3 charges. Charging every 5 min to 3 min

After charge change to make RvR less expensive:
Everyone has to use a charge every 2 min
Thu 2 May 2019 1:14 AM by Fugster
I really think buff pots need to go. They devalue spec lines with buffs already too much. Keep endo and add a realm speed pot and leave it at that.
Thu 2 May 2019 1:26 AM by waffel
buffbots are bad because they become a requirement that people need to have

phoenix devs make buff potions and charge items a requirement, and make them more annoying and cumbersome than the old buffbots

Honestly, just remove the buff pots and add buffbot NPCs everywhere. The process was SO MUCH EASIER.
Thu 2 May 2019 1:37 AM by adrockcafe
This is the first change the Devs have come up with that I don't like, and I'm very much caught off guard by it for that reason. =)

I need to sleep on it I think because it feels Phoenix-breaking to me - will reevaluate in the morning.
Thu 2 May 2019 1:39 AM by naglorand
Fkn' Frustrating... You dont wanna devalue str/con + d/q charges (that already can be shelled out cuz of the conc changes) so you add an item charge that has PD9 on it? (this will cost you almost 30 RA points btw to acheieve) The other parts of the changes are fine.... but this is changing really fundamental game mechanics when you are basicallys starting out casters at RR3 by giving them free maxed ouit realm abilities. Why don't you give tanks a det 9 use item while you are at it. F R U S T R A T I N G......! !!!!!!
Thu 2 May 2019 2:22 AM by Norad
A lot of people are missing the main points to the changes, one of the bigger reasons for them to do this is to make the juggling of charges for solos and small mans not be something that needs to be done. Currently if youre in a solo or small man you basically have to afk at the pk for 8mins before you go out with d/q+s/c+spec af+combat ready charge, which could be considered an" unfun" mechanic. The changes to the buff system address this problem.

Keep in mind

1. Spec AF being alb only and not being given to hib/mid is fake news to an extent because currently alb grps cant even buff spec af cuz two clerics have to do specs + bases for the whole group. Currently on alb if you want spec af you need to charge it(which is an easy crafted charge) similar to hib/mid. Keep in mind that the charge is also higher value than the buff(similar to acuity buff)

2. the concentration cap increase will allow 1 buff class to keep a group fully buffed with specs


The real problem:

Adding the new magic/melee resist buff which in turns will force everyone to run this (it's more impactful than a legion/power charge think of the dmg reduction in 30seconds over a 250pt heal). I can understand the need to replace the current items but going with something less impactful (make it something in line with legion charges strength level) or have it pve based buff(xp/rp/bp grp bonus charge).
Thu 2 May 2019 2:23 AM by Mauriac
Ceen wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 12:46 AM
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 10:22 PM
Norad wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 10:15 PM
instead of juggling charges in solos/small mans it will just make people having to juggle the new magic/melee resist charge. whoever has it up will do better/have advantage similar to whoever had more charge buffs juggled, people will just afk more since the charge is so important. doesnt solve any issue, it causes more because everyone will need to have these charges based on how strong they are.

It's a low duration cd and as such intended to be used in combat and therefore competing with the legion heal charge item, in case of solo the effects will be rather close. It being ready is not really something to be too concerned about.
As many people already told you weeks ago the legion charges are already imba. But since no one had a free timer they weren't a big issue. Now you free up the timer and introduce even more imba items to balance the old imba once. Well not sure what to say

This is the Phoenix staffs version of ToA. Next up , leveling your legion charge!
Thu 2 May 2019 2:27 AM by Mauriac
Norad wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 2:22 AM
A lot of people are missing the main points to the changes, one of the bigger reasons for them to do this is to make the juggling of charges for solos and small mans not be something that needs to be done. Currently if youre in a solo or small man you basically have to afk at the pk for 8mins before you go out with d/q+s/c+spec af+combat ready charge, which could be considered an" unfun" mechanic. The changes to the buff system address this problem.

Keep in mind

1. Spec AF being alb only and not being given to hib/mid is fake news to an extent because currently alb grps cant even buff spec af cuz two clerics have to do specs + bases for the whole group. Currently on alb if you want spec af you need to charge it(which is an easy crafted charge) similar to hib/mid. Keep in mind that the charge is also higher value than the buff(similar to acuity buff)

2. the concentration cap increase will allow 1 buff class to keep a group fully buffed with specs


The real problem:

Adding the new magic/melee resist buff which in turns will force everyone to run this (it's more impactful than a legion/power charge think of the dmg reduction in 30seconds over a 250pt heal). I can understand the need to replace the current items but going with something less impactful (make it something in line with legion charges strength level) or have it pve based buff(xp/rp/bp grp bonus charge).

there was a really easy fix to this.

1) Make buffs last through death
2) Reduce the cost of charges in half

Problem solved. Thats literally all anyone was asking for. Hell, they could have kept the buffs timed and boosted them to 20 min and the people still would have cheered.

But no. Instead we go full retard. We nerf buffs overall and replace them with what is basically ToA shit.

If I had more time I'd learn how to play the violin because someone needs to provide music for the Phoenix funeral. This bird isn't getting resurrected from this crap.
Thu 2 May 2019 2:41 AM by Yokahu
naglorand wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 1:39 AM
Fkn' Frustrating... You dont wanna devalue str/con + d/q charges (that already can be shelled out cuz of the conc changes) so you add an item charge that has PD9 on it? (this will cost you almost 30 RA points btw to acheieve) The other parts of the changes are fine.... but this is changing really fundamental game mechanics when you are basicallys starting out casters at RR3 by giving them free maxed ouit realm abilities. Why don't you give tanks a det 9 use item while you are at it. F R U S T R A T I N G......! !!!!!!

Right! The +20% defenses is just silly!
Thu 2 May 2019 3:22 AM by qq6
Could we get more clarification on cd timers with this change. Basically the only charges before were either legion heal vs dmg add, now its legion/dmg add or 20% buff? Are the charges still on a 2 min timer?
Thu 2 May 2019 3:45 AM by waffel
Devs: “Check out these poorly thought out changes to the buff system, and let us know how you feel!”

Players: “These planned changes are terrible and poorly thought out!”

Devs:
Thu 2 May 2019 3:49 AM by Monkies
Is this buff patch going to be before or after fixes for all the unintended consequences (invisible frontier obstacles, camera glitching, etc.) that were introduced in the last patch or is it going into the salad?

Monkies/Dogbyte
Thu 2 May 2019 4:47 AM by labova
adrockcafe wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 1:37 AM
This is the first change the Devs have come up with that I don't like, and I'm very much caught off guard by it for that reason. =)

I need to sleep on it I think because it feels Phoenix-breaking to me - will reevaluate in the morning.

That is exactly how I feel about it. I urge the devs to re-think this one.
Thu 2 May 2019 4:55 AM by jelzinga_EU
Norad wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 2:22 AM
A lot of people are missing the main points to the changes, one of the bigger reasons for them to do this is to make the juggling of charges for solos and small mans not be something that needs to be done. Currently if youre in a solo or small man you basically have to afk at the pk for 8mins before you go out with d/q+s/c+spec af+combat ready charge, which could be considered an" unfun" mechanic. The changes to the buff system address this problem.

Keep in mind

1. Spec AF being alb only and not being given to hib/mid is fake news to an extent because currently alb grps cant even buff spec af cuz two clerics have to do specs + bases for the whole group. Currently on alb if you want spec af you need to charge it(which is an easy crafted charge) similar to hib/mid. Keep in mind that the charge is also higher value than the buff(similar to acuity buff)

2. the concentration cap increase will allow 1 buff class to keep a group fully buffed with specs


The real problem:

Adding the new magic/melee resist buff which in turns will force everyone to run this (it's more impactful than a legion/power charge think of the dmg reduction in 30seconds over a 250pt heal). I can understand the need to replace the current items but going with something less impactful (make it something in line with legion charges strength level) or have it pve based buff(xp/rp/bp grp bonus charge).

This. One of the problems the devs trying to solve (no longer juggle charges when solo/small-men) is completely negated by the new resist-charges which will become the de-facto standard in fights: If you do not have it up you are at such a big disadvantage it will become much harder to win. A 25% secondary resist-buff offers a greater increase in TTK on a solo'er with capped resists if they got more than ~1100 hp than the Legion heal-charge and in groups with any healer this number will only go up.

Most of the changes are OK - but the resist-charges are not. Just set their selling-price to a merchant to ~1-2 plat and be done with it. The short loss of those items to affected players is a much smaller price to pay than a newly introduced completely charge-dominated game with the resist-charges.
Thu 2 May 2019 5:00 AM by AngelRose
complex changes for what could have been simple fixes. All that was needed was an increase charge time and decrease costs.

Dev's said that was op. Not sure how new changes are better.


/shrug
Thu 2 May 2019 7:39 AM by Cruella
I would just refund and be done with it. but thats just me. You are going to piss off more people with the new charges than just taking away the old ones.

- Let the people sell their old chargestuff for feathers (or plat) back to the npc for a set period of time (like 1 week so all get the news). After that change them
back to normal sell value.

- Decrease value for the legion heal charges to be only slightly better than the normal ones. No free ip.
- Let people also be able to sell the legion stuff back to the npc like the way mentioned above.


Be done with is.
Thu 2 May 2019 7:47 AM by qq6
Probably not going to get a reply here, but what the hell....
Rangers/Hunters buff line becomes more and more useless, are there any plans to make it viable at all? (yes i pld a ranger and it was already somewhat debatable to spec that line, but it still worked, now with higher pot buffs it becomes even less attractive. Are we going to get some sort of fix for it?)
Thu 2 May 2019 7:53 AM by spell
20% is overpowered. Please don’t let that go live. A charge should NOT be equal or better than RAs.

Do not agree with giving Bard and Healers Spec AF. If so, give conc endo buff to Friars like Shaman have if we’re breaking away from the norm.

The 25% extra conc pool and no limit to buffs is the only welcome change IMO
Thu 2 May 2019 7:55 AM by Funzel
FYI: Uthgard atm 20 players!

They fucked it up by ignoring their community!

Please don´t do the same thing!
Thu 2 May 2019 7:59 AM by Kampfar
Those Resist charges seem to become musthave to compete. The specbuff charges were ok, u could choose if or Not use em while having a bit better buffs that might impact about 2-4% more damage the pot. But now the difference is 20% cmon
Thu 2 May 2019 8:00 AM by easytoremember
I'm in favor of the buff cap removal

Nothing else though
Not even the conc increase, no no
Thu 2 May 2019 8:02 AM by REVOLTE
this basically means, everyone has to re-template their chars to include "resist-charges" without having to swap gear.
yeah, no, thank you.

edit: im a fan of the buffcap removal tho ♥
Thu 2 May 2019 8:03 AM by Lollie
Welcome to dark age of /usealot
Thu 2 May 2019 8:18 AM by Dindelion
If these changes are going live, I hope you'll change single buff pots stats to match combined forces stats accordingly. Some classes don't / can't use the whole buffs and only use few buffs. E.g friar only needs to buy a S/C pot now that they lost the charge, it would be kinda sad to force them to buy the combined pot for that. Same for other self buffing classes or necro who can't use most buffs anyway.

I really hope the 20% resists charges will never see the light, it brings absolutely nothing but a mandatory /use, which we wanted to avoid in the first place.

I still don't understand why we had a 20+ pages suggestions thread if you don't use it, there definitely were suggestions miles better than this.

Some people are going to leave with this patch, I guarantee it.
Thu 2 May 2019 8:34 AM by Hejjin
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 11:23 PM
Sixin2082 wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 8:01 PM
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 5:28 PM
So WHY give them MORE conc to buff.. whil Alb still have the same buffs..
And even GIVE HIB/MID Spec AF.. while Alb STILL have no ENDU Buff?
Can we take a moment to appreciate "Alb has no Endo buff"

Seriously though, we should be removing buff pots, if for no other reason than so that paladins can get groups again.

Would make it even worse... because you would waste another slot in group to a class noone needs except for endu buff.
I really dont understand why they gave Spec AF to Bard/Healer... and dont give Endu buff to Friar in the same way.. would even out the whole thing.. and surely wouldnt break the balancing.
My main is a Friar, and I am not in favour of Friars being given an Endurance buff as that would step on the toes of Paladins and make them even less popular in RvR than they currently are. That being, I also do not approve of Bard's and Healers being given spec AF. The uniqueness of the realms appears to be diminishing as the months go by.
Thu 2 May 2019 8:39 AM by Hejjin
Emeryc wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 11:57 PM
snip...
-Double (or even triple) the increase of primary, secondary and tertiary stat increases gained by levelling. .
snip...
Wohoo my Friar gets even stronger, shame strength does absolutely zero for Friars other than raise the amount that we can carry ;-) I agree with the rest of your points.
Thu 2 May 2019 8:48 AM by Hejjin
Fugster wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 1:14 AM
I really think buff pots need to go. They devalue spec lines with buffs already too much. Keep endo and add a realm speed pot and leave it at that.
I agree with the former but not the latter, it should either be remove all buff pots or add them all including realm speed and resists. I would much rather that there were no buff pots, but I cannot see that happening...
Thu 2 May 2019 9:10 AM by Menfany
dbeattie71 wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 12:23 AM
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:16 PM
Jacksontown wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:09 PM
Even if this is a nerf to Alb, Hib is by far the most underpopulated realm at most times of the day

not underpopulted if you count all shrooms in animists cast at fights.. and with using their bugs its pretty even out to the other realms.. or at least Albion.
Boo hoo, I died to a plant lmao.
Child.
Thu 2 May 2019 9:14 AM by Menfany
Hejjin wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 8:34 AM
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 11:23 PM
Sixin2082 wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 8:01 PM
Can we take a moment to appreciate "Alb has no Endo buff"

Seriously though, we should be removing buff pots, if for no other reason than so that paladins can get groups again.

Would make it even worse... because you would waste another slot in group to a class noone needs except for endu buff.
I really dont understand why they gave Spec AF to Bard/Healer... and dont give Endu buff to Friar in the same way.. would even out the whole thing.. and surely wouldnt break the balancing.
My main is a Friar, and I am not in favour of Friars being given an Endurance buff as that would step on the toes of Paladins and make them even less popular in RvR than they currently are. That being, I also do not approve of Bard's and Healers being given spec AF. The uniqueness of the realms appears to be diminishing as the months go by.
So it would be better to leave them both in this "less popular" state.. instead of make one viable.. and the other class is doomed anyways.
I mean it dont change anything.. your grou need heals and endu? take a friar.. your group need a tank and endu? take a paladin..
thats it. noone would take a friar/paladin just for endu.. as you see right now.
Thu 2 May 2019 9:19 AM by pax
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:35 PM
The goals behind these changes are:
1) If you are grouped with a buffer you are buffed by the buffer and don't need to use any charges / potions except for maybe useless things like str on caster
2) If you are solo / small man without a buffer, you use the combined buff potion and are done
3) Don't devalue existing sc/dq charge items

Goal 1 and 2 should be achieved without changing the currently achievable stats too much, some changes are fine however. Goal 3 should be achieved without making it something you always have to have up and juggle the timer or potentially waste upfront.

To achieve the first goal:
1) Increase the available conc by 25%
2) Remove 20 buff cap
3) Small delve increase to the acuity buff
4) Add spec AF to bards and healer

To achieve the second goal:
1) 30% buff of buff potion delve. This means from 65 (base + spec from current buff potion) or 101 (buff potion base + spec charge) to 83 (33 base, 50 spec)
2) haste potion and combo potion use the same haste
3) add appropriate spec AF to combo buff potion

To achieve the third goal:
1) s/c charge becomes a 20% secondary magic resists charge for 30 seconds
2) d/q charge becomes a 20% secondary melee resists charge for 30 seconds

Spec AF charges will be set to the same value as the combined forces potion, thereby effectively removing them
Acuity charges will be set to the same value as the combined forces potion, thereby effectively removing them
From what i got in theory, well done..
Thu 2 May 2019 9:43 AM by raghh
Im sorry but this is so completely wrong in every aspect.
Thu 2 May 2019 9:44 AM by Hejjin
Menfany wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 9:14 AM
Hejjin wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 8:34 AM
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 11:23 PM
Would make it even worse... because you would waste another slot in group to a class noone needs except for endu buff.
I really dont understand why they gave Spec AF to Bard/Healer... and dont give Endu buff to Friar in the same way.. would even out the whole thing.. and surely wouldnt break the balancing.
My main is a Friar, and I am not in favour of Friars being given an Endurance buff as that would step on the toes of Paladins and make them even less popular in RvR than they currently are. That being, I also do not approve of Bard's and Healers being given spec AF. The uniqueness of the realms appears to be diminishing as the months go by.
So it would be better to leave them both in this "less popular" state.. instead of make one viable.. and the other class is doomed anyways.
I mean it dont change anything.. your grou need heals and endu? take a friar.. your group need a tank and endu? take a paladin..
thats it. noone would take a friar/paladin just for endu.. as you see right now.
There are other changes that could be made to make Rejuv/Enhance Friars more viable/desirable without stepping on the toes of Paladins. A number of good ideas were posted in an Albion thread on Friars from not long after launch. I would much rather that the Friar buff in the Enhancement spec line that reduces fatigue consumption be made into a group pulse than be given an endurance buff.

I am confident that if endurance pots were removed then Paladins would be (slightly) more desirable than they are now, as people have got used to being able to permanently sprint.
Thu 2 May 2019 9:51 AM by Nando
Another Mid-Love-Patch - Great Work! NOT
Thu 2 May 2019 10:02 AM by relvinian
the 20% resist buff seems ill advised
Thu 2 May 2019 10:18 AM by tsaka77
i don´t support this buff system changes (particullary charges), except the thing with the conc on healers!

everyone knows (game is 20 years old), the more chargeitems you got the more you will pay at the end of the day! this has been always and ever like that, so nothing new. it´s a fact that you need to farm here and there to continue playing/rvr´ing on your main toon.

Vote for: Buffsystems should stay as it is!

sidenote: would like to know what did bring you GM´s to this decision?
Thu 2 May 2019 10:42 AM by Tamy
Sorry but...just /shrug.

Now you just have to be ready to pull the 20% melee resist buff in every 1vX fight because it will be that powerful. Fights will take longer (higher chance for possible adds on both sides), no timer for other charges (like legion heal or dmg add).

And on a char where you before needed s/c charge (like friar) you now have to invest in feathers again to get the d/q charge aka 20% melee resists. And spec AF/Acu will get completely useless -> also great.

On the other hand it just fills the gap between a casual player and one who wants to get everything out of his char. For example 17% haste pots vs. the 11% you get from combined forces (and again - like with the charge change - a waste of resources on already crafted 17% haste pots).

It just makes the game more casual since it loses even more in a strategic aspect. Before I had to decide to run 1, 2 or even 3 charges for the possible lack of an available timer infight (for a legion heal, debuff etc.). Now it will be: Combined Forces -> Inc -> Pull Resi Charge

I cannot evaluate the changes regarding buff classes (conc/max buffs) but the buff of the combined forces will also affect selfbuff classes and make certain spec-lines even more obsoleet. For example a few days ago I was eager to start a ranger and now I just feel demotivated to do so since the pathfinding gets even more questionable.

It just seems that this will cause way more problems than it will solve.

/justmy2cents
Thu 2 May 2019 12:28 PM by Halma
Did not read the whole thread but most of it.
I don't like the most changes either, especially since self buffers are even more screwed than before and not even mentioned in the change suggestion.
I also don't like changing two must-have charges to two different but also must-have charges. 20% seems to be way too much for not using it on cooldown. So nothing really won here in terms of cost. The juggling is gone though, but that's the only benefit.

I'm a supporter of "no buffpots at all" but now they're getting better. That's an "arf" from my side.
Thu 2 May 2019 12:50 PM by Pedro
A couple of points:

- If AF Spec is being given to the other realms, it should be to the main spec buffer class. That way all the main healers have to balance with the conc the same way. Seems that Bards will have plenty of Conc as they only do bases, same with Healers (based on spec), and not all of them, which means the majority of the Hibs and Mids will have Conc AF while Albs almost never use it because of the concentration haggle.

- If we're going to start equalizing spells across the realms (Which is one of the things that made DaoC unique, that nothing was alike across all 3), then we need to start opening the door to discuss the celerity for the other two realms. And not on Pally's and Wardens (to my dismay), but on a class that's equally as needed and always in a group like a Healer's.
Thu 2 May 2019 12:51 PM by dbeattie71
Menfany wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 9:10 AM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 12:23 AM
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 6:16 PM
not underpopulted if you count all shrooms in animists cast at fights.. and with using their bugs its pretty even out to the other realms.. or at least Albion.
Boo hoo, I died to a plant lmao.
Child.

😭
Thu 2 May 2019 1:03 PM by relvinian
20% resist buff fr 30 seconds in charge items?

That is money for skill.

Now you need pots AND you NEED charge items.

I hate to be dramatic but i wont be doing that. so i will lose a lot more or play a lot less.
Thu 2 May 2019 1:04 PM by Cider
Trying to fix so none self buff classes dont have to juggle buffs? Why? So they dont have times of vulnerability/disadvantage? So now they just press an insta buff button to give them all buffs....while self buffing classes have to be vulnerable and stop to buff?

Completely unneeded and unwanted changes here that do nothing to better the game in any way other than to appease a very small amount of entitled whiners who you will never satisfy.

Buffing on none selfbuffing classes should not be easy, nor cheap, nor without added risk! The way charges currently work are an acceptable balance. This change in general is not.

Removing limit on buffs + 25% conc is an excellent idea though but then giving mid/hib easy access (without the charge timer risk) to AF buff is most definitely not.
Thu 2 May 2019 1:14 PM by Ardri
Ferdi wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 12:11 AM
pls add 100 charge haste potions

Read the post, it's in already. Combi pot is now 17% haste.
Thu 2 May 2019 1:20 PM by Ardri
Griselda wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 12:30 AM
This change is gonna ruin the server for me, why would you even consider such a thing? Who does it help? What imbalance does it adress? Its pure BS. We knew what game we signed up for you don't have to be Mythic 2.0 and mess up DAoC a second time by trying to balance a game where it is absolutely not necessary and takes away from its basic concept.

18 less stats which affects every solo/small man (without spec buffer) in the exact same way. Now you don't have to juggle 3 charges every 2 minutes.

YOU'RE RUINING THE SERVER FOR ME OMGAWD.

You guys are like a 3 year old toddler who gets the blue cup instead of the red cup. Overreacting to everything like the world is going to end.
Thu 2 May 2019 1:23 PM by kratoxin
when is this change and the bg/rvr change taking effect? today??
Thu 2 May 2019 1:29 PM by cere2
How is Alb missing out? Are you saying all Hibs/Mids didn't have access to spec AF? Wrong...we all had access to spec AF prior to this change.

Only difference is that it won't cost classes wins/losses dependent on what buff timer they got screwed by. That's a good thing imo.

Only thing I will agree on is the melee/magic debuff /use.

Either eliminate that aspect and refund some feathers for those items, or reduce by 1/2.

Next thing is to address what needs done with self-buff specs....

Overall. Good change for balance. Should not be losing anymore because of having to wait for timers to get buffs etc.

Now I can just blame it on really being unskilled
Thu 2 May 2019 1:38 PM by Horus
Seems very much to be another screw you Rangers/Hunters/(and a bit) Scout change. Again, minimize self buffing classes by giving those not meant to have solo buffs even more and easier access.

Then the real slap in the face, 20% melee resist...

If you find the rare target of opportunity..if your arrow happens to get past all the defenses and actually land, your target just hits a 20% instant melee resist charge and you are effectively done. Just run away and hope you don't die trying. If you try to help out in large scale engagements, forget that too. Arrows hardly tickle against spec+base AF buffs + template enemies in groups, even cloth casters.

Oh but Haste is improved...oh yea, that doesn't affect archery. Archery isn't considered melee or is it? Seems to be sometimes and other times not. Nice consistency. /eyeroll

Oh and add spec AF to potions. Well that is cool. It can stack with the base Pathfinding AF buff...bzzz wrong. PF buff is spec AF too so no benefit or stack.

Even if as a Ranger I have a 20% melee resist charge myself that does nothing for me vs infits or SB. So it takes one ore more swings to kill? Instead of being killed in 5 seconds I am killed in 7 while still doing no damage to them because they will have their own 20% resist buff up + earlier detection + double the evade rate.

Really boggles the mind how consequences don't seem to be considered at all. If you don't want archers to be archers, just say so and eliminate the spec line. Eliminate self buff lines too like PF. You obviously give them no value.
Thu 2 May 2019 1:45 PM by Keelia
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 11:20 PM
Keelia wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 8:19 PM
Menfany wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 7:37 PM
You just have no clue.
1. Theurgs have a limit to pets.
2. Theurgs need LoS to cast their pets.. guess what happens if you try this at a keepfight... i mean even the hib shrooms NOT casting through the wals.. what the do almost constantly at keep fights these days... but if you try to cast on anything.. you get stun/nuked... so NO THEURG PETS in keep fights..
3. stop telling bullshit if you are not sure about what you talking

Cry more about animist maybe you’ll get them nerfed even more. Seems to be how this server works. Get enough to whine and cry about the same thing and the devs fold to the cry babies. And I’m talking from experience seeing as every alb group has at min one thug. 1 in maybe 10 hib groups run amid. Then if you had 10 groups who run them maybe 1 actually knows what they are doing with them. On a side not Thug pets chasing at speed 6 when SoSed is stupid and needs to be fixed.

Wrong.
Pointing on BUGS isnt "crying".. and i dont want them "nerfed" as you state... i want these bugs fixed... thats a big difference.
Also you doesnt seem to run RvR anyways.. because Alb groups dont run "all Theurgs".. thats just bullshit.
And to make you post completly nonsense... the point was keep fights.

So next time.. if you have no clue and dont stick to the point of discussion.. just shut up and keep this shit to yourself. Thx.
.

I love I you put all theurgs in quotes as if I said that.. I said alb groups usually have at least one thug. So once you learn to read I’ll continue posting. Also I RvR I don’t spend my time taking keeps. Maybe that’s the issue, all you do is keep Zerg and actually dont spend time actually RvRing.
Thu 2 May 2019 1:55 PM by cere2
This is also a good thing for those of us who don't enjoy spending 1/2 our time farming so we can afford the cost of charges....

@Horus. While I agree with this just making PF/BC and other self-buffing classes specs even more worthless, IMO they were basically worthless already.

I imagine they already know something will need to be done with those specs eventually.

For the melee resist charges, depends if that charge shares a timer with say heart of legion. If that's the case it may be ok. If it doesn't then I would agree it's a bit over the top.
Thu 2 May 2019 1:57 PM by Oxa
i'd just like to point out the fact that Midgard is the only realm where the spec buffer has an offensive role,
therefore charges helped to lower his death impact, as long as you take this aspect into consideration we'll be fine
Thu 2 May 2019 2:09 PM by metaljames
if your goal is to shrink the server population then I strong encourage you to make strange and radical custom changes that will undoubtedly piss off hundreds of people.
farming plat for skill is already a reality, running pots and charges to gain an advantage. forcing people to use 20% absorb charges every inc will break the bank. not only would it be more expensive to rvr it would also be much more difficult. more difficult because your target can pop their EA-style absorb charge if/when you finally catch them in a fight and the little damage you are able to do will be negated by 1/5. now lets say its a difficult fight against a group say like PK. you have to switch targets and rupt constantly. you get small windows when their healers are tied up and cant heal, that's the only time you are going to get to drop one of them. now when that happens, they can just pop their lil "savemyasscharge" and never be challenged by a melee group again? great move to whomever the geniuses were that figured this one out.

you have all realms getting spec AF, why?.. because you realized you made albion tanks too strong and that it was unbalanced. how about mercs/palas hit how hard they are supposed to hit? you should not have buffed pala damage and nerfed endu pots to encourage albs to use a worthless class in rvr.

speaking of how useless a paladin is, you guys should bring back yellow endu pots. haste and damage add barrels should also be available to make. you may think im an asshole, but im not. it doesn't take a fortune teller to understand changes like this will kill your server. I enjoy playing on it and do not want to see that happen.
Thu 2 May 2019 2:17 PM by Yokahu
This thread is full of different opinions about the changes, but the one thing almost everyone agrees on is that the +20% defense is a no-go.

Devs, will you be reconsidering this aspect of the change? I know that you guys don’t want to devalue the charges items but this is a deal breaker for a lot of players.

Removing buff charges overall is even preferred by many players (based on the feedback from this thread) over the proposed +20% defense custom change.
Thu 2 May 2019 2:19 PM by gruenesschaf
Being against the new charge was something that was expected and is fine and would lead to a nerfing of that charge, the intention for it is to be about as powerful as the legion charge in solo play while accepting that with more effective hp in groups it would have had a greater effect there.

However, the hostility towards the remainder of the changes is unexpected given that it's basically making item buffs have a lot more QOL while nerfing the maximum achievable stat points by 18. Given that it's a nerf of 18 maximum points the remarks regarding this being worse for self buff classes is also surprising.

The amount of people who think Spec AF is an alb exclusive buff that is randomly given to hib/mid is staggering. Spec af already exists as a craftable charge available to and used by all 3 realms, this is a normal SI crafting recipe.
Thu 2 May 2019 2:21 PM by cere2
metaljames wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 2:09 PM
if your goal is to shrink the server population then I strong encourage you to make strange and radical custom changes that will undoubtedly piss off hundreds of people.
farming plat for skill is already a reality, running pots and charges to gain an advantage. forcing people to use 20% absorb charges every inc will break the bank. not only would it be more expensive to rvr it would also be much more difficult. more difficult because your target can pop their EA-style absorb charge if/when you finally catch them in a fight and the little damage you are able to do will be negated by 1/5. now lets say its a difficult fight against a group say like PK. you have to switch targets and rupt constantly. you get small windows when their healers are tied up and cant heal, that's the only time you are going to get to drop one of them. now when that happens, they can just pop their lil "savemyasscharge" and never be challenged by a melee group again? great move to whomever the geniuses were that figured this one out.

you have all realms getting spec AF, why?.. because you realized you made albion tanks too strong and that it was unbalanced. how about mercs/palas hit how hard they are supposed to hit? you should not have buffed pala damage and nerfed endu pots to encourage albs to use a worthless class in rvr.

speaking of how useless a paladin is, you guys should bring back yellow endu pots. haste and damage add barrels should also be available to make. you may think im an asshole, but im not. it doesn't take a fortune teller to understand changes like this will kill your server. I enjoy playing on it and do not want to see that happen.

Ok, I'll take a swing at this one. So, your saying in a group setting the melee absorb charge will make your melee train worthless? What happens if you pop your magic absorb charge, will that make the caster train worthless too? I don't like the charges myself but I think it was an easier way then trying to refund feathers etc. Perhaps reduce it from 20% down to 10%.

Who didn't have access to spec AF via charges? Why would you assume they didn't use those charges in a group setting?

Bringing back yellow endo pots allows all classes to endlessly spam styles, so I'm on the fence about that.

Not everyone enjoys farming 1/2 the time so they can be competitive in RVR....
Thu 2 May 2019 2:25 PM by CarniX
gruenesschaf wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 2:19 PM
The amount of people who think Spec AF is an alb exclusive buff that is randomly given to hib/mid is staggering. Spec af already exists as a craftable charge available to and used by all 3 realms, this is a normal SI crafting recipe.

Charge item =! Conc buff.

Where is conc based haste for alb then?
Thu 2 May 2019 2:29 PM by cere2
gruenesschaf wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 2:19 PM
Being against the new charge was something that was expected and is fine and would lead to a nerfing of that charge, the intention for it is to be about as powerful as the legion charge in solo play while accepting that with more effective hp in groups it would have had a greater effect there.

However, the hostility towards the remainder of the changes is unexpected given that it's basically making item buffs have a lot more QOL while nerfing the maximum achievable stat points by 18. Given that it's a nerf of 18 maximum points the remarks regarding this being worse for self buff classes is also surprising.

The amount of people who think Spec AF is an alb exclusive buff that is randomly given to hib/mid is staggering. Spec af already exists as a craftable charge available to and used by all 3 realms, this is a normal SI crafting recipe.

I agree with most of what you are saying but I think the biggest gripe for self-buffing classes is mostly from those few classes who's buffs are inferior to potions or just barely above the potions value. AKA PF/BC. Thane's lvl 50 buff str/con put them at cap? training PF to even 50 wasn't even close to cap, and to be competitive you still needed the 75 dex/qui, spec AF buff charge even if you had the max value dex/quick and spec AF from PF....so why would you waste the points in that spec?

And if Hib gets the DA charge like other realms then the final reason to spec PF the DA will also be gone....BC is essentially the same way. The dex/quick and the spec AF are worse than what you can get with current charges. So why even spec it? The dog is just a DA right now too since it doesn't even have sprint speed....
Thu 2 May 2019 2:37 PM by waffel
cere2 wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 2:29 PM
And if Hib gets the DA charge like other realms then the final reason to spec PF the DA will also be gone....

Oh, you mean Hib's only 11.3 DPS DA charged item listed on:
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3165

That was posted back in DECEMBER? The one showing it drops from Juggernaut?

They stated it was in the game, and then had 4 months to fix the issue and still haven't added it. Meanwhile, Midgard has SEVEN different mobs that drop the 11.3 DPS DA charge, with one of the mobs being level 50 that everyone can solo and farm (If they ever add the item to Hib, it'll be on a mob that requires a group to kill)

So yeah, I guess in a roundabout way, the devs have made PF not suck so bad by simply being lazy and not adding the DA to Hib like they say they did.
Thu 2 May 2019 2:40 PM by cere2
Though that went off on a different angle than I had hoped, the DA being 11.3 is another example of why no one would train 50 PF. The DA in a spec that you need what 46? points for last DA...isn't even better than a charge!

This is what we mean when saying the buffs make self-buffing classes specs worth less.
Thu 2 May 2019 2:49 PM by hellcon
gruenesschaf wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 2:19 PM
The amount of people who think Spec AF is an alb exclusive buff that is randomly given to hib/mid is staggering. Spec af already exists as a craftable charge available to and used by all 3 realms, this is a normal SI crafting recipe.


Do you have some sort of metrics you can point people to? Like saying x% of all players over RR5 are running AF charges? It would help if people understood if this was rare or not. You are saying people have access to it, but if at any given time there are only 5 players out of 150mids in RVR using it; it is a bit disingenuous to state they have it.
Thematically & through the history of DAOC, the perception has been that one of Alb's advantage was Plate armor and spec AF & that was a key differentiator in the realms.
see SOS, or slower speed longbow, tanky necro pets (which also have the perception of being stripped as being an Alb feature on this server)
Thu 2 May 2019 2:51 PM by lurker
gruenesschaf wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 2:19 PM
However, the hostility towards the remainder of the changes is unexpected given that it's basically making item buffs have a lot more QOL while nerfing the maximum achievable stat points by 18. Given that it's a nerf of 18 maximum points the remarks regarding this being worse for self buff classes is also surprising.

It’s because this is too much of a custom change to resolve too simple of a problem. All people really care about is hassle of juggling charges & cost off charges...

So...
Reduce the hassle (no 2 min timers between charges, 20 minute charge timer)
Reduce the cost (20 min charge timer, cheaper pots / recharges)

Problem solved. It’s simple, true to the feel of classic, doesn’t mean people need to re-think templates. Does not introduce new charge types that groups and solos will now need to use.

Nobody really cares about the 18 stat points. If charges/pots are too high then nerf them by 18 for balance. Fine. This helps self buffers feel like they have a reason to spec too.

People enjoy having charges in their templates, working towards them and utilising them.
People enjoy thinking that they may have an advantage because they farmed those feathers / put more effort into building that template.
Thu 2 May 2019 2:59 PM by Bradekes
gruenesschaf wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 2:19 PM
Being against the new charge was something that was expected and is fine and would lead to a nerfing of that charge, the intention for it is to be about as powerful as the legion charge in solo play while accepting that with more effective hp in groups it would have had a greater effect there.

However, the hostility towards the remainder of the changes is unexpected given that it's basically making item buffs have a lot more QOL while nerfing the maximum achievable stat points by 18. Given that it's a nerf of 18 maximum points the remarks regarding this being worse for self buff classes is also surprising.

The amount of people who think Spec AF is an alb exclusive buff that is randomly given to hib/mid is staggering. Spec af already exists as a craftable charge available to and used by all 3 realms, this is a normal SI crafting recipe.

It's really the randomness of certain self buff classes buffs being subpar.. Even on uthgard ranger and hunter have full strength dex/qui..

My suggestion is give Mastery of the Arcane a much lower RA requirement so selfbuff classes can have the edge on stat buffs.. It only makes sense, but I like the rest of the decided options.. Secondary resists is kinda weird though as I think no one actually suggested that idea or discussed it in your community ideas thread.

I'm liking the less micromanagement direction though
Thu 2 May 2019 3:03 PM by Dealinjah
gruenesschaf wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 2:19 PM
Being against the new charge was something that was expected and is fine and would lead to a nerfing of that charge, the intention for it is to be about as powerful as the legion charge in solo play while accepting that with more effective hp in groups it would have had a greater effect there.

However, the hostility towards the remainder of the changes is unexpected given that it's basically making item buffs have a lot more QOL while nerfing the maximum achievable stat points by 18. Given that it's a nerf of 18 maximum points the remarks regarding this being worse for self buff classes is also surprising.

The amount of people who think Spec AF is an alb exclusive buff that is randomly given to hib/mid is staggering. Spec af already exists as a craftable charge available to and used by all 3 realms, this is a normal SI crafting recipe.

maybe my english is bad but does this awnser mean you will stay on your position to implement this change after 28 post pages saying itsd a bad idea and we dont want it ?
Thu 2 May 2019 3:07 PM by Ardri
gruenesschaf wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 2:19 PM
Being against the new charge was something that was expected and is fine and would lead to a nerfing of that charge, the intention for it is to be about as powerful as the legion charge in solo play while accepting that with more effective hp in groups it would have had a greater effect there.

However, the hostility towards the remainder of the changes is unexpected given that it's basically making item buffs have a lot more QOL while nerfing the maximum achievable stat points by 18. Given that it's a nerf of 18 maximum points the remarks regarding this being worse for self buff classes is also surprising.

The amount of people who think Spec AF is an alb exclusive buff that is randomly given to hib/mid is staggering. Spec af already exists as a craftable charge available to and used by all 3 realms, this is a normal SI crafting recipe.

Amen. So glad none of them have anything to do with server changes or balance patches.
Thu 2 May 2019 3:10 PM by Chihuahua
You have stated whats going to happen - could you please enlighten us about "why"? I think that removing charges at all would be better idea. The resist/magic charges are not good.

Didn't you learn with RvR task teleport system, that such huge changes in the game are too risky?

You should make an open vote on changes this big.
Thu 2 May 2019 3:13 PM by Dindelion
gruenesschaf wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 2:19 PM
Being against the new charge was something that was expected and is fine and would lead to a nerfing of that charge, the intention for it is to be about as powerful as the legion charge in solo play while accepting that with more effective hp in groups it would have had a greater effect there.

However, the hostility towards the remainder of the changes is unexpected given that it's basically making item buffs have a lot more QOL while nerfing the maximum achievable stat points by 18. Given that it's a nerf of 18 maximum points the remarks regarding this being worse for self buff classes is also surprising.

The amount of people who think Spec AF is an alb exclusive buff that is randomly given to hib/mid is staggering. Spec af already exists as a craftable charge available to and used by all 3 realms, this is a normal SI crafting recipe.

I have no idea where you want to go with those kind of charges, so I'm not gonna comment more than that : imo legion is already a mistake (and I use it... because it's too powerful to pass), people hated Live for adding more "iwin" charges. You introduce a mandatory dependency which will never be balanced. Don't try to fix something not broken, people don't want those resists charges.

About buffs : People will overall have better buffs yeah, because charges juggling means one couldn't really have every red charges up at any point. If they did, it did last very little time. Right now I highly doubt I fight someone with red spec AF, D/Q, S/C or Acu because of that reason. So even if spec AF is already available, few actually ran it for example.

Those changes imply specific class balance issues, I can totally understand Archers and Friars feel robbed. Do you have any plan for Necro ? Right now the only buff/charge they can use for their pet is Acuity, which will be nerfed, while everyone will be running with overall better buffs.

Do you plan to raise single pots buff values to combined force values for those who don't need or can't use all buffs ?
Thu 2 May 2019 3:18 PM by cuuchulain79
I really don't like the logic used to add spec AF to bards & healers...

I get the simplicity of groups not being reliant on charges...but why erode the realm individuality to accomplish that?

More so than being concerned about mids & hibs having a bit more armor...I'm worried to see that logic being used here...because where does it end? Haste comes in a potion but is only available in Alb through items or a grouped theurg...do we now logically give conc haste to clerics? Or do we logically say alb groups aren't reliant on items as long as...(they run a theurg).

Please keep the lid on this can of worms.
Thu 2 May 2019 3:26 PM by Cruella
Give spec af at least to shaman and druid so all realms have the same struggle to buff it on everyone.
Thu 2 May 2019 3:31 PM by brewtus23
Ok here is my only question on this entire Buff system/ buff charge issue!!! Why in the hell do we not allow buff bots but we implement Buff potions. I mean seriously
Thu 2 May 2019 3:41 PM by Keelia
brewtus23 wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 3:31 PM
Ok here is my only question on this entire Buff system/ buff charge issue!!! Why in the hell do we not allow buff bots but we implement Buff potions. I mean seriously

Because everyone has access to pots, some, somehow in this day and age don’t have the ability to run 2 accounts
Thu 2 May 2019 3:45 PM by cuuchulain79
To be fair...

Getting the client running for one char is hard enough ATM
Thu 2 May 2019 3:51 PM by Matax
20% resist charges is a terrible idea, really hope that doesn't go live.

Honestly don't care much how values between charges/pots/whatever is divided up.

Though i think it's pretty reasonable to have to put slightly more effort in to get max efficiency (spec AF as mid/hib etc.)
Thu 2 May 2019 4:16 PM by Quathan
Im fine with
"1) If you are grouped with a buffer you are buffed by the buffer and don't need to use any charges / potions except for maybe useless things like str on caster"
Rest I really think is a bad idea.. But you guys made so much other good stuff so Im sure you find another solution )
Thu 2 May 2019 4:39 PM by inoeth
thats so dumb ... selfbuff classes get rekt even more and now you basicly need to fire a resist charge every fight to compete.....
Thu 2 May 2019 4:47 PM by Egonek
20% Magic Resist Charge for Tanks... for 30 SEK!!!

1. He stay shorter in CC.
2. You cant kill the tank for 30 sek.... after a 50% debuff you nuke with base dmg maybe for 250dmg if he use this charge and if he dont hafe more AOM..

Dont bring the resist Charges...

Mele Resists for caster is a joke... no matter if you get hitet for 900dmg or 750dmg? by a svg...
Thu 2 May 2019 4:48 PM by midounet
Delete all buff potions! Why there are here... on live buff potion were implanted for help people who did not have a bot buff.
On Phoenix... 0 buff bot so we don't need this potions.
Thu 2 May 2019 4:49 PM by cere2
inoeth wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 4:39 PM
thats so dumb ... selfbuff classes get rekt even more and now you basicly need to fire a resist charge every fight to compete.....

You enjoy buff timers? Having to wait 2 minutes to fire a buff...hope to not be attacked for 6 minutes so you can have all 3 up? Then rinse/repeat in 4 minutes?
Did you enjoy having to farm for 2 hours a night to pay for the 3 charges/combined forces/haste/DA/thorns/combined regen to RvR for one night?

Not me! Hopefully with this change I can pay for new potions with the money I make killing in RvR

Selfbuff classes were rekt from the inception of any buff charges or potions. This doesn't change much in that aspect.
Thu 2 May 2019 4:53 PM by Auranyte
gruenesschaf wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 2:19 PM
However, the hostility towards the remainder of the changes is unexpected given that it's basically making item buffs have a lot more QOL while nerfing the maximum achievable stat points by 18. Given that it's a nerf of 18 maximum points the remarks regarding this being worse for self buff classes is also surprising.



Ok I'll play this here. You increasing the combined forces spec value is what made it worse for my ranger. I spent spec points to get 40 Pathfinding purposefully for the dex/qui buff in the line. (I didn't have the feathers for the charge items at the time then you announced for feedback on changing them so I held off) With you changing the potion value to 50, I gain exactly 2 points of dex/qui for all the points I spent in pathfinding. So in this case why bother speccing to 40 for that dex/qui buff when I can put those spec points elsewhere and just use the potion. That is how you made it worse for rangers. Hunters are also in a similar boat with beastcraft. And if I went for the final dex/qui buff at 48 PF? I would gain only 10 dex/qui over the potion for that many spec points. That is not a worthy tradeoff.

Oh you also added spec AF into the potion as well right? You didn't mention the delve value, but I'm assuming it will be 50 like the other specs are. I was using my af buff over charges to save money and for the 23minute buff mainly, but I did have a +75 spec af charge on my ranger. Using my 40 PF spec I got the lvl 31 spec af which I believe worked out to 62 AF after the spec multiplier. (If spec af doesn't get that multiplier then I was getting 50) I can just stop using my casted AF for the potion one since I can use it on the move/restealth after it.

The STR buff is a wash since the delve value and spec multipliers are setup to cap it at the max level. I'm not worried about that.

So Pathfinding has 5 spells 3 of which are covered by the potion. Of those 3 buffs you are better off just using the potion and ignoring the spec line.

Buffing the delve values on Beastcraft and Pathfinding Dex/qui buffs would help somewhat, but I believe most would just go the bare minimum they feel is needed now and ignore the rest of those spec lines.

I can't say much for the other self buffer situations like Champion and Friar. But I do know that even Mythic realized the dex/qui buffs in PF/BC were lacking and buffed them in 1.69. (They also added sureshot in that patch at 45 bow spec. Sureshot was an uninterruptible bow shot for half damage, something we need here)
Thu 2 May 2019 4:55 PM by Turano
midounet wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 4:48 PM
Delete all buff potions! Why there are here... on live buff potion were implanted for help people who did not have a bot buff.
On Phoenix... 0 buff bot so we don't need this potions.
Because the game in it's actual state (and all patches that followed) has always been balanced buffed vs buffed (with the buffbots in mind to bring more money to the publisher)
If you remove the ability to buff up for non buff classes you would have to make ridiculous balance changes

On Topic:
1+2 yes please
3 please think about that again
Thu 2 May 2019 4:56 PM by tsaka77
if the reason for changing buff/charges are the cost´s ... maybe just implement Rechargestones which you can purchase for BP or Feathers?

for example: rechargestone (300 charges) 5k bp or 15k feathers
Thu 2 May 2019 4:59 PM by Turano
tsaka77 wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 4:56 PM
if the reason for changing buff/charges are the cost´s ... maybe just implement Rechargestones which you can purchase for BP or Feathers?

for example: rechargestone (300 charges) 5k bp or 15k feathers
This
Thu 2 May 2019 5:05 PM by Mauriac
The more I think about these changes the more I lol.

Were not going to have TOA (yay) but were basically going to add in TOA like charges that will single handedly turn fights just like real TOA items! (wtf)

Buffing is expensive so we're going to combine everything into the CF pot (yay) but nerf the values so we can totally fuk soloers and smallman even more vs groups! (wtf)

Were going to give hib and mid spec AF because (reasons) but were going to keep the bowel destroying cancer that is hib amnesia the same because (reasons) and were going to tell SBs to go F themselves with no one part off evade stun anywhere in sight also because (reasons).

I really enjoy and appreciate this server. I appreciate the work you guys have done. I think the most prudent move right now, is for the entire dev team to back wayyyyyy off. There are plenty of things like invisible walls and broken doors that need fixing. Meanwhile, you guys keep coming up with ideas that you think are going to help but are actually going to kill your server.

Remember, given an infinite number of chances for something to happen the probability of it occurring is basically one. The lesson here is, if you keep making custom changes, particularly at the rate you're making them, the probability that you make a server killing change that you can't come back from, is basically one.

Right now, as far as most of the community is concerned, your development process looks like this.

https://youtu.be/wz-PtEJEaqY
Thu 2 May 2019 5:07 PM by Auranyte
As for the Necro/Pet buffing issue. Would it be possible to create a pet buff potion? I mean there already exists pet only buffs out there. Hunters, Enchanters, Bonedancers, Cabalists, and Necros all have spec buffs for pets. (Well I think the necro spec buffs are for the pet unsure here)

If its possible to take that "target pet" code and use it on some base buffs for the pets as well... It might help the issues Necros have atm. You'd just have to make sure it only applies to the controlled pet (To keep BD and Animist non-controlled pets from getting out of hand). The values would require some tweaking to get right, but that could mitigate some of the issues no?
Thu 2 May 2019 5:44 PM by Mauriac
tsaka77 wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 4:56 PM
if the reason for changing buff/charges are the cost´s ... maybe just implement Rechargestones which you can purchase for BP or Feathers?

for example: rechargestone (300 charges) 5k bp or 15k feathers

The simplicity and effectiveness of this solution is genius which I suspect is why it has not been considered
Thu 2 May 2019 5:50 PM by scira1
After reading all this again, I think thy best option to maximize QoL would be the following

1. Leave charges items as is - there needs to be an option for more Hardcore players to have advantage - but eliminate the reuse timers so that you can just hit all of them whenever you want (except the legion heal - or remove this altogether). Leave them at 10m reuse but reduce cost for recharge OR increase timer and leave cost as is (prefer the former)

2. Make no changes to spec af - this is already accessible via crafted charge item and buff lines on applicable classes

3. Combined forces pot. Reduce all values by a small amount to increase utility of self buff classes and encourage grouping with buffer to gain access to higher stats. Increase haste value to 17 (maybe)

4. Plz plz plz do not add melee and spell resist items. This does add a crazy must have advantage compared to even running 3 charges and makes it more like toa needing to have certain abilities up

This would maintain self buff classes small advantage. It wouldn't drastically change small man, solo, or group dynamics. It would make it easier for everyone to buff to their particular liking

Leave the changes to increase conc limit and eliminate max buff limit
Thu 2 May 2019 6:18 PM by eclipse2k
The proposed changes will make the resist charges mandatory.
Solo players will have to wipe home every 10 fights, or die to someone who has the charge item up. Or farm multiples of them.

Group fights will come down to who has more resist items. All other changes are fine.
But don't do the OP resist charges. They will become the anchor point of most fights. If this is where you want to go, just introduce ToA-Artifacts.
Thu 2 May 2019 6:28 PM by Warlay
i dont know what you are doing, you will lose again ppl with such strange useless changes, 20% melee resis? xD
simple solution give a buffpotion with 75 specdex/ strcon and af. finished
why you want to bring in such items ??? in 6 months you introduce a 500mhb stackable like on live? sry this goes in the totally wrong direction.

The new spec dex will be fired when the fight starts. honestly dont like^^ my svg will have then 70% slash resis? let the blade ns come^^
Thu 2 May 2019 6:42 PM by dbj
As a relatively new player on Phoenix, I welcome the changes. After leveling my NS to 50, and realizing the grind that would be involved just to support my charges, I simply gave up and rerolled another class, hoping for a fix like this to pop up.

I genuinely wouldn't want to participate in RvR with the current system because it feels just like buffbots back on live, except you don't have to invest extra cash for an account (which I have), but extra time (which I don't have).
Thu 2 May 2019 7:16 PM by jwalker
gruenesschaf wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 2:19 PM
However, the hostility towards the remainder of the changes is unexpected given that it's basically making item buffs have a lot more QOL while nerfing the maximum achievable stat points by 18. Given that it's a nerf of 18 maximum points the remarks regarding this being worse for self buff classes is also surprising.

Conc+20 buff change is a good idea, but please please reconsider the stat nerf its bad for several reasons
1) solo/small man max stats (yes i ran both spec buffs 100%) gets even lower weakening solo zerg vs. Group even more
2) it nerfs buff classes even more, as it also nerfs MoA (lower overall value makes MoA< aug stats much earlier)
3) makes it really hard to reach 250 quickness, a value that is sooo key.
My celt ranger needs a free starting point respec and skill respec ...

Here an example how you nerfed my ranger
Before with arkana 7 and yellos buffs (pf 39), both spec charges and combined
Buffs with moa7
Before Str: 151, con: 121 dex: 121 qui: 90
Now str: 121, con: 99 dex: 99 qui: 60
So str and quickness i loose 30!!!! Points. Wow really? Especially in quickness thats huge. And 22 points in dex and con well glad we have so many hp here already.

Just keep the value 26+75 as before, make them 20 mins durarion and combine them into one pot. Buff all self buffs through the board to easily (blue buff already) top combined forces value. Items with combo charges could also have the combined forces buffs (but as rechargable item).
Thu 2 May 2019 7:35 PM by Auranyte
jwalker wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 7:16 PM
gruenesschaf wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 2:19 PM
However, the hostility towards the remainder of the changes is unexpected given that it's basically making item buffs have a lot more QOL while nerfing the maximum achievable stat points by 18. Given that it's a nerf of 18 maximum points the remarks regarding this being worse for self buff classes is also surprising.

Conc+20 buff change is a good idea, but please please reconsider the stat nerf its bad for several reasons
1) solo/small man max stats (yes i ran both spec buffs 100%) gets even lower weakening solo zerg vs. Group even more
2) it nerfs buff classes even more, as it also nerfs MoA (lower overall value makes MoA< aug stats much earlier)
3) makes it really hard to reach 250 quickness, a value that is sooo key.
My celt ranger needs a free starting point respec and skill respec ...

Here an example how you nerfed my ranger
Before with arkana 7 and yellos buffs (pf 39), both spec charges and combined
Buffs with moa7
Before Str: 151, con: 121 dex: 121 qui: 90
Now str: 121, con: 99 dex: 99 qui: 60
So str and quickness i loose 30!!!! Points. Wow really? Especially in quickness thats huge. And 22 points in dex and con well glad we have so many hp here already.

Just keep the value 26+75 as before, make them 20 mins durarion and combine them into one pot. Buff all self buffs through the board to easily (blue buff already) top combined forces value. Items with combo charges could also have the combined forces buffs (but as rechargable item).

I think you might want to recheck your numbers here. Because none of them are making any sense to me. I do not believe that charge or pot buffs were effected by MoArcane at all.
The difference in numbers is as stated multiple times earlier in the thread. Str/Dex/Con will be 18 points less under the new system vs Pot+Charge currently, while Qui will be 25 short since there is no base qui buff.

{edit: I messed up on the MoArcane 7 value. I read the 7 points at the top thinking it was lvl 7. That said I still do not believe that MoArcane worked on charges or pots. If you can provide a screenshot with pot+charge and your buffed stats together to prove me wrong I'll be happy to eat crow.}
Thu 2 May 2019 7:44 PM by chois
it works
Thu 2 May 2019 7:46 PM by Citian
Rangers benefit from this change. All self-buffing classes benefit from this change. It is a nerf to the amount of reachable stats by those who are unable to buff themselves at the cost (or luxury) of being able to cast all of your buffs at once.

Specifically self-buffing classes with spec buffs benefit the most because those have been cut from 75 to 50 within the pot and even if your classes value is say '48' at a 1.25v (e.g. no MoA) you're 10 above others. If you, as others, pump MoA and benefit from an .30 multiplier... well....

Self-buffers are doing okay with this change from what I understand. What I don't understand is why a free 20% PD was handed out when casters are the flavor of the day already, and tanks/light tanks could've used this 30 second 20% AoM as say insurance towards not being speedbumps. Or to have given tanks permanent 20% AoM and light tanks NF charge.

Either way, I am a fan of the combined charge covering all buffs in one go. That's nice. I am not a fan of any kind of stat nerf because some classes will have a huge stat advantage and that is either being ignored, not well thought out, or simply a product of artifacts that yet to be culled (MoA on only certain classes).
Thu 2 May 2019 7:46 PM by Auranyte
When did it start working? Because when I did my spec testing a month ago it did not work at all. I even dumped all of my RAs into it when testing at lvl 49 to see if it was worthwhile point for point vs aug stats.

Well it still doesn't change things from a self buffing point of view since both the pots and the self buffs get the % as well. The pot still equals or outclasses my rangers pathfinding spec of 40.
Thu 2 May 2019 8:00 PM by jwalker
Auranyte wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 7:35 PM
I think you might want to recheck your numbers here. Because none of them are making any sense to me. I do not believe that charge or pot buffs were effected by MoArcane at all.
The difference in numbers is as stated multiple times earlier in the thread. Str/Dex/Con will be 18 points less under the new system vs Pot+Charge currently, while Qui will be 25 short since there is no base qui buff.

{edit: I messed up on the MoArcane 7 value. I read the 7 points at the top thinking it was lvl 7. That said I still do not believe that MoArcane worked on charges or pots. If you can provide a screenshot with pot+charge and your buffed stats together to prove me wrong I'll be happy to eat crow.}
I works and my numbers ARE correct
Thu 2 May 2019 8:06 PM by jwalker
Citian wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 7:46 PM
Rangers benefit from this change. All self-buffing classes benefit from this change.

No its not. Ranger dex qui is so low you really need to invest into the red buff to even get any benefit (+2 points on the yellow buff).
One of the major advantages were MoA affecting charges and pots so all self buffong classes could raise stats very efficiant via a combo of high arkana and aug stats. Now this advantage is much weaker as the total buff value is lower
Thu 2 May 2019 8:10 PM by Auranyte
jwalker wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 8:00 PM
Auranyte wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 7:35 PM
I think you might want to recheck your numbers here. Because none of them are making any sense to me. I do not believe that charge or pot buffs were effected by MoArcane at all.
The difference in numbers is as stated multiple times earlier in the thread. Str/Dex/Con will be 18 points less under the new system vs Pot+Charge currently, while Qui will be 25 short since there is no base qui buff.

{edit: I messed up on the MoArcane 7 value. I read the 7 points at the top thinking it was lvl 7. That said I still do not believe that MoArcane worked on charges or pots. If you can provide a screenshot with pot+charge and your buffed stats together to prove me wrong I'll be happy to eat crow.}
I works and my numbers ARE correct
Yeah I see that now that I'm online. I'm trying to figure out what changed or what I screwed up when I was testing crap at 49 before my final spec. Because when I was running my numbers with MoArcane 6 I wasn't seeing the pots get the increase only my PF buffs.

I apologize on that part. That being said I'm wondering how many actually ran with MoArcane outside of buffing classes. (Self or otherwise) Because I never even thought about it on my other characters, only my Ranger.
Thu 2 May 2019 8:14 PM by jwalker
Auranyte wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 8:10 PM
I apologize on that part. That being said I'm wondering how many actually ran with MoArcane outside of buffing classes. (Self or otherwise) Because I never even thought about it on my other characters, only my Ranger.

Only (self) buffing classes have access to MoA, that was/is their main advantage. But with lower values the advantage got much less. Ill go down to MoA5 as level 6-7 is not efficiant anymore
Thu 2 May 2019 8:22 PM by Auranyte
jwalker wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 8:14 PM
Auranyte wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 8:10 PM
I apologize on that part. That being said I'm wondering how many actually ran with MoArcane outside of buffing classes. (Self or otherwise) Because I never even thought about it on my other characters, only my Ranger.

Only (self) buffing classes have access to MoA, that was/is their main advantage. But with lower values the advantage got much less. Ill go down to MoA5 as level 6-7 is not efficiant anymore

My Valewalker gets it but I'm not sure what spells of his it would even effect.. if it works on absorb though.. hrm


Are you sure its still not worth keeping it high if you are after the stats? I mean compared to spending those 10 points in aug stats anyway. I need to run some numbers later to figured out if there is a best realm skill point to stat point investment. Those 10 points would get you 8 str/dex/con and 12 qui. vs whatever the difference is between 12% and 20%. And thats not counting the spec af increase.
Thu 2 May 2019 8:22 PM by Keelia
Citian wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 7:46 PM
Rangers benefit from this change. All self-buffing classes benefit from this change. It is a nerf to the amount of reachable stats by those who are unable to buff themselves at the cost (or luxury) of being able to cast all of your buffs at once.

Specifically self-buffing classes with spec buffs benefit the most because those have been cut from 75 to 50 within the pot and even if your classes value is say '48' at a 1.25v (e.g. no MoA) you're 10 above others. If you, as others, pump MoA and benefit from an .30 multiplier... well....

Self-buffers are doing okay with this change from what I understand. What I don't understand is why a free 20% PD was handed out when casters are the flavor of the day already, and tanks/light tanks could've used this 30 second 20% AoM as say insurance towards not being speedbumps. Or to have given tanks permanent 20% AoM and light tanks NF charge.

Either way, I am a fan of the combined charge covering all buffs in one go. That's nice. I am not a fan of any kind of stat nerf because some classes will have a huge stat advantage and that is either being ignored, not well thought out, or simply a product of artifacts that yet to be culled (MoA on only certain classes).
Melee classes on Phoenix in no way shape or form need any love what so ever.
Thu 2 May 2019 8:30 PM by Emeryc
If these changes take place, I would sincerely hope that self buffing classes would get a free realm and skill respec.
Thu 2 May 2019 8:37 PM by jwalker
Auranyte wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 8:22 PM
My Valewalker gets it

Are you sure its still not worth keeping it high if you are after the stats?

Vw: works on af once rr5 or if you dont have mp armor. Does not work on absorb

Now MoA 5 vs 7 with yellow base str buff
str: +8 con: +7 dex: +7, qui: +4
Thats 26 points spread. Not terrible but for the same investment i can get aug str5 or increase mastery of arms. Before a combo of moa7+aug stat 2 was just really great
Thu 2 May 2019 8:38 PM by jwalker
Emeryc wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 8:30 PM
If these changes take place, I would sincerely hope that self buffing classes would get a free realm and skill respec.

+ starting point respec for everyone. Many planned with 75 quickness buffs and didnt put starting points into it
Thu 2 May 2019 8:49 PM by Auranyte
jwalker wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 8:37 PM
Auranyte wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 8:22 PM
My Valewalker gets it

Are you sure its still not worth keeping it high if you are after the stats?

Vw: works on af once rr5 or if you dont have mp armor. Does not work on absorb

Now MoA 5 vs 7 with yellow base str buff
str: +8 con: +7 dex: +7, qui: +4
Thats 26 points spread. Not terrible but for the same investment i can get aug str5 or increase mastery of arms. Before a combo of moa7+aug stat 2 was just really great

Oh yeah def better to spend those points in the aug stats if you want them. I would invest some points in Aug Qui now because thats the biggest loser in the stat changes. Toughness also beats out aug con as well, unless you are a Luri with sub 50 con. (Then you need aug con to get above 50 then swap to toughness)
Thu 2 May 2019 10:01 PM by Emeryc
jwalker wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 8:38 PM
Emeryc wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 8:30 PM
If these changes take place, I would sincerely hope that self buffing classes would get a free realm and skill respec.

+ starting point respec for everyone. Many planned with 75 quickness buffs and didnt put starting points into it

Yeah, that too, for sure.
Thu 2 May 2019 10:15 PM by Bradekes
Auranyte wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 8:22 PM
jwalker wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 8:14 PM
Auranyte wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 8:10 PM
I apologize on that part. That being said I'm wondering how many actually ran with MoArcane outside of buffing classes. (Self or otherwise) Because I never even thought about it on my other characters, only my Ranger.

Only (self) buffing classes have access to MoA, that was/is their main advantage. But with lower values the advantage got much less. Ill go down to MoA5 as level 6-7 is not efficiant anymore

My Valewalker gets it but I'm not sure what spells of his it would even effect.. if it works on absorb though.. hrm


Are you sure its still not worth keeping it high if you are after the stats? I mean compared to spending those 10 points in aug stats anyway. I need to run some numbers later to figured out if there is a best realm skill point to stat point investment. Those 10 points would get you 8 str/dex/con and 12 qui. vs whatever the difference is between 12% and 20%. And thats not counting the spec af increase.

I plan on making a VW with MotArcane because not only does it affect stat buffs, but it will affect the spec AF and caster AF VW gets which will make VW take dmg like a paladin
Thu 2 May 2019 10:15 PM by phixion
This will be a massive custom change.

-18 to each stat will massively change certain races and the reasons you pick them. I created my Norse SB with +15 qui to reach 250qui with aug qui 3, with -18 I will need aug qui 7 just to get back to 250.

You are in dangerous teritory when you start changing core stats that have existed since day 1.

Leave it as it is, please.

Just make recharging cheaper and remove the 2 minute timer between popping str/con, d/q and af charges.
Thu 2 May 2019 10:22 PM by Drominchen
Would be nice if they would make the reuse timer per item and not global for buff charge items. Would be just as expensive as now but you could buff instantly after death. Also pls get rid of 1 min rvr fight cooldown on combined forces.
Thu 2 May 2019 10:27 PM by Caemma
Drominchen wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 10:22 PM
Would be nice if they would make the reuse timer per item and not global for buff charge items. Would be just as expensive as now but you could buff instantly after death. Also pls get rid of 1 min rvr fight cooldown on combined forces.
This would help too much people getting rezzed, since they could fullbuff themselves in a second.
Thu 2 May 2019 10:37 PM by cere2
phixion wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 10:15 PM
This will be a massive custom change.

-18 to each stat will massively change certain races and the reasons you pick them. I created my Norse SB with +15 qui to reach 250qui with aug qui 3, with -18 I will need aug qui 7 just to get back to 250.

You are in dangerous teritory when you start changing core stats that have existed since day 1.

Leave it as it is, please.

Just make recharging cheaper and remove the 2 minute timer between popping str/con, d/q and af charges.

The massive custom change was implementing buff potions to begin with. If you went +15 at creation you essentially couldn't go anymore, so you would be in the same boat as all others. You would have to possibly lose some offensive ra's to get back to 250.
Self buffing classes that spend spec points for buffs should be the only classes able to reach capped stats unless grouped. Honestly should be happy they are raising it at all. If left at current levels, those that do have to spec for buffs might actually have some reason to do so.
Thu 2 May 2019 10:54 PM by Numatic
Honestly I think the problem is how massively different a buffed and unbuffed player is. I ran around on my NS unbuffed for a short while to save gold. I knew it wouldn't end well most times but the huge difference in survival meant I couldn't even kill a buffed caster most times because of adds. If I caught them alone with enough time yea I could. But how often does that happen? The only way i was able to kill anyone was to add in a fight.

Buffs have always been too powerful for RvR and the difference it makes creates a mandatory need for it.
Thu 2 May 2019 10:58 PM by Mikhaile
I really wish they'd just do away charges/pots altogether. The solo game is already nothing but people running around chugging pots like its skyrim. Victory depends on who can eat their cheese wheel the fastest. Its nonsense.
Thu 2 May 2019 11:15 PM by Emeryc
Please heed the previous 3 posts, #323, 324 and 325... they are spot on.
Thu 2 May 2019 11:29 PM by Leandrys
Free respec for creation points could be a good idea, been aiming for specific amounts like a lot of people by taking into consideration 75 charges, even chosed a specific race for one particular class cause of these charges values, it would be a nice gift devs.
Thu 2 May 2019 11:57 PM by chois
instead of all these changements, better will be to fix problem of los, a lot of time ,since the new version, can t shoot an ennemy at 100 unit range with the bow.... excellent for a bowman
Fri 3 May 2019 12:30 AM by Citian
Keelia wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 8:22 PM
Melee classes on Phoenix in no way shape or form need any love what so ever.

An interesting opinion that is not reflected by the makeup of the server's populace. A fact that resembles the idea that there actually is some need for love in one form or another towards melee. On a macro scale, of course, which is the only scale that matters for a server's longevity.
Fri 3 May 2019 12:34 AM by unowien
I honestly don't know how I feel about this. Pot changes aside, why are you putting spec AF on classes that are already meta? Yet on Alb, you still have Paladins sitting in the back of the bus with their thumbs up their ass always getting picked last for dodgeball. Why not do stuff to help classes that don't get groups in RvR at all?
Fri 3 May 2019 12:52 AM by tweedledee
If you're just joining us let me catch you up to speed in one short video:

https://i.imgur.com/JnClPe2.mp4
Fri 3 May 2019 1:36 AM by MasahikoKobe
I cant help but wonder how the general homogenization of the classes will continue as we see "issues" with some realms having certain buffs conc or cast. Maybe friars need more love so they should get celerity from mid. While i am being facetious about this, this its perhaps its better to think LESS is more rather than continuing the idea that all realms should have ways to access all things.

Personally i dont think that resists pots add anything of value to the game. Buff pots/charges should just be traded out for the buff tokens on live to just come full circle on the issue and be done with it. Buff shearing should show up if only to combat the fact that going to just full buff groups.
Fri 3 May 2019 1:52 AM by Dealinjah
maybe just dont touch the game ... and let us play peacefully like we do already and stop this endless beta
Fri 3 May 2019 2:13 AM by inoeth
cere2 wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 4:49 PM
inoeth wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 4:39 PM
thats so dumb ... selfbuff classes get rekt even more and now you basicly need to fire a resist charge every fight to compete.....

You enjoy buff timers? Having to wait 2 minutes to fire a buff...hope to not be attacked for 6 minutes so you can have all 3 up? Then rinse/repeat in 4 minutes?
Did you enjoy having to farm for 2 hours a night to pay for the 3 charges/combined forces/haste/DA/thorns/combined regen to RvR for one night?

Not me! Hopefully with this change I can pay for new potions with the money I make killing in RvR

Selfbuff classes were rekt from the inception of any buff charges or potions. This doesn't change much in that aspect.

dude its even getting worse if you have to charge resists every fight and not just every 10 min
Fri 3 May 2019 2:33 AM by cere2
inoeth wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 2:13 AM
cere2 wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 4:49 PM
inoeth wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 4:39 PM
thats so dumb ... selfbuff classes get rekt even more and now you basicly need to fire a resist charge every fight to compete.....

You enjoy buff timers? Having to wait 2 minutes to fire a buff...hope to not be attacked for 6 minutes so you can have all 3 up? Then rinse/repeat in 4 minutes?
Did you enjoy having to farm for 2 hours a night to pay for the 3 charges/combined forces/haste/DA/thorns/combined regen to RvR for one night?

Not me! Hopefully with this change I can pay for new potions with the money I make killing in RvR

Selfbuff classes were rekt from the inception of any buff charges or potions. This doesn't change much in that aspect.

dude its even getting worse if you have to charge resists every fight and not just every 10 min

I don't agree with the charge resist, but at least it's only 1 compared to 3 like it is now. It should have a shared timer with heart of legion so you would have to choose in a battle either resist charge or heal....
Fri 3 May 2019 3:04 AM by inoeth
cere2 wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 2:33 AM
inoeth wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 2:13 AM
cere2 wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 4:49 PM
You enjoy buff timers? Having to wait 2 minutes to fire a buff...hope to not be attacked for 6 minutes so you can have all 3 up? Then rinse/repeat in 4 minutes?
Did you enjoy having to farm for 2 hours a night to pay for the 3 charges/combined forces/haste/DA/thorns/combined regen to RvR for one night?

Not me! Hopefully with this change I can pay for new potions with the money I make killing in RvR

Selfbuff classes were rekt from the inception of any buff charges or potions. This doesn't change much in that aspect.

dude its even getting worse if you have to charge resists every fight and not just every 10 min

I don't agree with the charge resist, but at least it's only 1 compared to 3 like it is now. It should have a shared timer with heart of legion so you would have to choose in a battle either resist charge or heal....

theoretical you are able to charge it 5x in 10 min so thats 2 more than before. i agree in case of shared timers but im not sure if thats going to happen?!
also giving melee resist buff to all classes is kind of stupid ... assassins with PD omg, even though its only secondary but still very strong.

imo the charge should be something like 30% reg on a 15 min timer
Fri 3 May 2019 4:39 AM by Praha
I start yesterday, can you wait 3 or 4 months to kill the server ? 😂 . daoc is good like live don t try useless change for noob player. You need buff go raid / farm....
Fri 3 May 2019 5:38 AM by tweedledumb99
To people saying "we should only get buffs by being/grouped with a buff class!" do you realize that this means that any solo has exactly 0 chance of going up against:

- a friar
- a solo warden
- a duo with any buff class

???
Fri 3 May 2019 5:42 AM by tweedledumb99
Also, for people who are saying "this change will devalue our hard earned feather items!" I say that's bullshit.

I've got a temp with all the sweet feather toys (both buff charges, legion heal, endo heal, ablative charge, af charge), but all this change means is that I don't have a wild advantage over players who are new to the game or who don't have all those sweet items.

Now I have to actually win more through skill and less relying on having spent more time in the game.

That's EXACTLY the direction this game should be heading.

I'd even be happy with a nerf to the planned 20% melee/magic resists for 30s as well.

Yay to no more juggling charges.

Yay to no more 700g a night for soloing.

And again, anyone who says you should only get buffs from buff classes either hasn't thought this through for more than 30s, is actively trying to help out their specific class, or wants to ruin solo play for non-buff classes.
Fri 3 May 2019 5:45 AM by Cadebrennus
Dealinjah wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 1:52 AM
maybe just dont touch the game ... and let us play peacefully like we do already and stop this endless beta

This 100%
Fri 3 May 2019 6:31 AM by naglorand
is it possible to give the players a chance to refund the str/con and d/q items for feathers? that would probably be good ernough for most people
Fri 3 May 2019 7:48 AM by Sepplord
as a pennytwister that absolutely hates getting stuff devalued:

i would prefer the charge-items simply losing their charges (without any compensation at all), over the OP resist-charges


Superstrong actives that swing fights by themselves should not be a thing.

Increased TTK --> more adds

not having OP charge, but adder has --> less chance to win against an adder
Fri 3 May 2019 10:51 AM by dstrmberg
If you go forward with these changes please considering giving out race/starting stat respecs. The changes Do invalidate some important decisions taken when planning your character before this.
Fri 3 May 2019 11:16 AM by Invyz1
stop being such morons please,

the game is 20 years old - if you think everyone should be unbuffed you're an idiot

this is a great change and should have been here from the start +1 to the Mods for bringing in a positive change

All this crying about farming for buff items... it's a plat calm your shit!
Fri 3 May 2019 12:04 PM by Funzel
Just implement Buffbots in Domnan and Druim Ligen so no switching, no dual login...
The code is in the DOL-base...
and pls don´t implement the 20% resist rates. It sounds like a terrible idea!
Fri 3 May 2019 12:08 PM by relvinian
Allow me to be somewhat dramatic.

20% additional melee and magic resists for those who spend 10 gold is a bad idea.

Terrible.
Fri 3 May 2019 12:09 PM by waffel
Invyz1 wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 11:16 AM
stop being such morons please,

the game is 20 years old - if you think everyone should be unbuffed you're an idiot

this is a great change and should have been here from the start +1 to the Mods for bringing in a positive change

All this crying about farming for buff items... it's a plat calm your shit!

35 pages of people beg to differ, so it seems like the only moron here is you.
Fri 3 May 2019 12:15 PM by Mikhaile
Invyz1 wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 11:16 AM
childish garbage

You can stop with the name calling. If you really need to screech like a toddler you can go spam emotes at a milegate with the rest of the kids.
Fri 3 May 2019 12:52 PM by Lillebror
Instead of this +10 magic and melee resist charge on our d/q and s/c items.

Cant you instead atleast on one of the types have cure Disease?
other instead give (options):
cure NS
End Heal
Power heal (mcl2)
Heal over Time
+5% resists that last 10m
Cure Poisons
Fri 3 May 2019 1:13 PM by stetty
I don’t mind the changes to #1 or #2. #3 though is a tough one. I understand that devaluing the items is a concern but it still means it’s a requirement to compete. What about making them a small RP or BP bonus buff? This would be good for the players that can’t always get their hands on Claws as much.

I do think that if classes have spec lines with buffs, these should be looked at and improved. Hunter Beastcraft is a good example, really not much worth specing for there buff wise since they get it from other places. Then you look at the Thane and they have a value 75 str/con to go for in addition to spells.
Fri 3 May 2019 1:31 PM by Bicstor
stetty wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 1:13 PM
I don’t mind the changes to #1 or #2. #3 though is a tough one. I understand that devaluing the items is a concern but it still means it’s a requirement to compete. What about making them a small RP or BP bonus buff? This would be good for the players that can’t always get their hands on Claws as much.

That would remove any benefit for those who would choose to use the s/c and d/q charge in a PVE situation.
Fri 3 May 2019 2:06 PM by Ferdi
it makes no sense to put melee resist buff without debuff resist weapons
Fri 3 May 2019 2:40 PM by jwalker
phixion wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 10:15 PM
This will be a massive custom change.

-18 to each stat will massively change certain races and the reasons you pick them. I created my Norse SB with +15 qui to reach 250qui with aug qui 3, with -18 I will need aug qui 7 just to get back to 250.

You are in dangerous teritory when you start changing core stats that have existed since day 1.

Leave it as it is, please.

Just make recharging cheaper and remove the 2 minute timer between popping str/con, d/q and af charges.

In quickness you loose 25 points only str/con/dex its 18. So you need aug qui 8 for 250
Fri 3 May 2019 2:44 PM by cere2
jwalker wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 2:40 PM
phixion wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 10:15 PM
This will be a massive custom change.

-18 to each stat will massively change certain races and the reasons you pick them. I created my Norse SB with +15 qui to reach 250qui with aug qui 3, with -18 I will need aug qui 7 just to get back to 250.

You are in dangerous teritory when you start changing core stats that have existed since day 1.

Leave it as it is, please.

Just make recharging cheaper and remove the 2 minute timer between popping str/con, d/q and af charges.

In quickness you loose 25 points only str/con/dex its 18. So you need aug qui 8 for 250

Mastery of Arms is also an RA that improves melee attack speed....
Fri 3 May 2019 2:48 PM by jwalker
cere2 wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 2:44 PM
jwalker wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 2:40 PM
phixion wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 10:15 PM
This will be a massive custom change.

-18 to each stat will massively change certain races and the reasons you pick them. I created my Norse SB with +15 qui to reach 250qui with aug qui 3, with -18 I will need aug qui 7 just to get back to 250.

You are in dangerous teritory when you start changing core stats that have existed since day 1.

Leave it as it is, please.

Just make recharging cheaper and remove the 2 minute timer between popping str/con, d/q and af charges.

In quickness you loose 25 points only str/con/dex its 18. So you need aug qui 8 for 250

Mastery of Arms is also an RA that improves melee attack speed....
Sure but quickness is much more universal. It adds evade and adds to bow and melee speed. Before i specced both low aug qui (to cap 250) and higher moarms
Fri 3 May 2019 2:53 PM by phixion
cere2 wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 2:44 PM
Mastery of Arms is also an RA that improves melee attack speed....

Yes, but with my weapons I need 250qui and moa9 to cap.

jwalker wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 2:40 PM
In quickness you loose 25 points only str/con/dex its 18. So you need aug qui 8 for 250

Shit, good point...

Kobold it is then.
Fri 3 May 2019 2:54 PM by Lillebror
If this is the case that we dont Get a +75 version, then they should let the charges stay, remove timer and make it last longer/after death maybe or reduce cost like Phixion mention.
Fri 3 May 2019 2:57 PM by cere2
phixion wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 2:53 PM
cere2 wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 2:44 PM
Mastery of Arms is also an RA that improves melee attack speed....

Yes, but with my weapons I need 250qui and moa9 to cap.

Guess I was still assuming swing speed was capped at 250 quick. Like it is on Live....

Has someone done testing or is there a calculator someone built to show swing speeds with diff weapon speeds etc?
Fri 3 May 2019 2:58 PM by phixion
cere2 wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 2:57 PM
Guess I was still assuming swing speed was capped at 250 quick. Like it is on Live....

Has someone done testing or is there a calculator someone built to show swing speeds with diff weapon speeds etc?

Schettz has a google spreadsheet with swing speed calculator.

250 qui is essentially the max for swing speed, but moa still increases it up to 1.5s cap.
Fri 3 May 2019 3:14 PM by Cadeg
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 1 May 2019 4:35 PM
1) Increase the available conc by 25%
2) Remove 20 buff cap
3) Small delve increase to the acuity buff
4) Add spec AF to bards and healer



1) and 2) : welcome, good idea ...
3) wait and see what you increase for ( exemple ; red buff for 75 acu or not )
4) no need

change for s/c and d/q charge : no need at all, it's just give free AoM9 or BoF for 10g ... not balance

on other side, just rebalance self buff class ( ranger/hunter or some other ) with something like 75 d/q buff with full spec line in PF/BC, that give them a real reason to spec high in it ... ( same for friar / champ / selfbuff class )

if you really want to make some class more interesting in group, there's other way to do it :
give haste buff for friar base on concentration ( as they did on live server ), group endo buff cost reduction, remove heal offensive proc from rejuv to enhance spec ( live like )

there's tons of things to do who doesn't imbalanced both 8v8/8vX / smallman and solo without changing all meta
Fri 3 May 2019 3:30 PM by cere2
phixion wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 2:58 PM
cere2 wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 2:57 PM
Guess I was still assuming swing speed was capped at 250 quick. Like it is on Live....

Has someone done testing or is there a calculator someone built to show swing speeds with diff weapon speeds etc?

Schettz has a google spreadsheet with swing speed calculator.

250 qui is essentially the max for swing speed, but moa still increases it up to 1.5s cap.

So I get that, but I had the understanding that after 250 quick your dps did not raise even with faster swing speed.

Either way I guess I can see this as having some effect for assassin's switching poisons etc. But I think overall it brings more balance and makes people win with skill vs. winning because they don't have this buff up or that buff etc because of timers.
Also, if charges are left the way they are, there is really no reason for hunters/rangers/friars to spec self buffs because currently charges are much better.
46 PF gives ranger a 9.4 DA, you can quaff a potion for 11.3 and save those 46 wasted points....hunter is even worse.
I think if they don't want to change the way things are now, they should at least reduce the buff charges down to 50 instead of 75.
As far as achieving quickness cap or swing speed cap, the reduction would be the same for all who don't group.
Fri 3 May 2019 3:52 PM by Niix
There should be a quiz you need to pass before you're allowed to comment on these type of changes -_-
Fri 3 May 2019 4:06 PM by stetty
Bicstor wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 1:31 PM
stetty wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 1:13 PM
I don’t mind the changes to #1 or #2. #3 though is a tough one. I understand that devaluing the items is a concern but it still means it’s a requirement to compete. What about making them a small RP or BP bonus buff? This would be good for the players that can’t always get their hands on Claws as much.

That would remove any benefit for those who would choose to use the s/c and d/q charge in a PVE situation.

You’re not getting those charges anymore anyway. I was simply throwing out an alternative idea instead of melee resists or magic resists.
Fri 3 May 2019 4:11 PM by Drominchen
cere2 wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 3:30 PM
phixion wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 2:58 PM
cere2 wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 2:57 PM
Guess I was still assuming swing speed was capped at 250 quick. Like it is on Live....

Has someone done testing or is there a calculator someone built to show swing speeds with diff weapon speeds etc?

Schettz has a google spreadsheet with swing speed calculator.

250 qui is essentially the max for swing speed, but moa still increases it up to 1.5s cap.

So I get that, but I had the understanding that after 250 quick your dps did not raise even with faster swing speed.

Either way I guess I can see this as having some effect for assassin's switching poisons etc. But I think overall it brings more balance and makes people win with skill vs. winning because they don't have this buff up or that buff etc because of timers.
Also, if charges are left the way they are, there is really no reason for hunters/rangers/friars to spec self buffs because currently charges are much better.
46 PF gives ranger a 9.4 DA, you can quaff a potion for 11.3 and save those 46 wasted points....hunter is even worse.
I think if they don't want to change the way things are now, they should at least reduce the buff charges down to 50 instead of 75.
As far as achieving quickness cap or swing speed cap, the reduction would be the same for all who don't group.

that is not how it works.

at the moment most soloers run 3 buff charges all the time (str/con, dex/qui, spec af) using them at 0 mins, 2 mins, 4 mins. That gives you 2 mins (minute 6-8) to use some other charge item (legion heal, damage add) without blocking the reuse of your first buff item that you have to use at 10 mins again cause of 2 min item timer.

rangers have their DA up all the time plus a capped base strength buff (62 value) at 50 PF. Buff pot value of base strength is 29 iirc. That is "free" aug str 7. And you don't need spec af charge freeing you 2 more minutes to use a useful charge item (legion heal!). Only bad thing with PF is the weak dex/qui buff.
Fri 3 May 2019 4:19 PM by Emeryc
So, now that the entire Pathfinding line (and, to a lesser degree, the Beastcraft line) is easily and completely replaceable by a few gold, how will you update the PF line?
Fri 3 May 2019 4:26 PM by chois
like i always said , bc and pf line are useless, the only way is to follow the way of live (not all archery system) , put all the self buff in archery line with the same value that in live, up the dog in bc, sweet puppy but usefull, and u resolve the problem of archer and the problem of self buff
Fri 3 May 2019 4:39 PM by Yokahu
Emeryc wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 4:19 PM
So, now that the entire Pathfinding line (and, to a lesser degree, the Beastcraft line) is easily and completely replaceable by a few gold, how will you update the PF line?

This is my opinion, but if I were a ranger (like I was in Mordred) I would be thrill with this change. I would not spec into PF at all and dump all those points into weap/CD (39/44) while having 35 in bow and stealth.

Anyway, back to the topic. I welcome any change that levels the playing field between players that have the time (to waste farming just to RvR) and those that don’t —this is a QoL change.

But let me be clear, I’m totally against the +20% defense charge; this is a deal breaker for me and many others (based on feedback from this thread).
Fri 3 May 2019 4:49 PM by Vkejai
I dont think I've ever played on a server where there are so many changes in a short period of time. It still feels like beta.
Fri 3 May 2019 4:53 PM by cere2
Drominchen wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 4:11 PM
cere2 wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 3:30 PM
phixion wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 2:58 PM
Schettz has a google spreadsheet with swing speed calculator.

250 qui is essentially the max for swing speed, but moa still increases it up to 1.5s cap.

So I get that, but I had the understanding that after 250 quick your dps did not raise even with faster swing speed.

Either way I guess I can see this as having some effect for assassin's switching poisons etc. But I think overall it brings more balance and makes people win with skill vs. winning because they don't have this buff up or that buff etc because of timers.
Also, if charges are left the way they are, there is really no reason for hunters/rangers/friars to spec self buffs because currently charges are much better.
46 PF gives ranger a 9.4 DA, you can quaff a potion for 11.3 and save those 46 wasted points....hunter is even worse.
I think if they don't want to change the way things are now, they should at least reduce the buff charges down to 50 instead of 75.
As far as achieving quickness cap or swing speed cap, the reduction would be the same for all who don't group.

that is not how it works.

at the moment most soloers run 3 buff charges all the time (str/con, dex/qui, spec af) using them at 0 mins, 2 mins, 4 mins. That gives you 2 mins (minute 6-8) to use some other charge item (legion heal, damage add) without blocking the reuse of your first buff item that you have to use at 10 mins again cause of 2 min item timer.

rangers have their DA up all the time plus a capped base strength buff (62 value) at 50 PF. Buff pot value of base strength is 29 iirc. That is "free" aug str 7. And you don't need spec af charge freeing you 2 more minutes to use a useful charge item (legion heal!). Only bad thing with PF is the weak dex/qui buff.

So 50 in PF is "free" aug str 7?

I know what you are saying here but don't discount the fact that its 50 spec points...leaving you with either utter garbage bow or utter garbage melee.
Spec AF isn't as high as charge, Dex/Quick isn't as high as charge, DA isn't as high as charge. Yes it's on constantly, but either way I could just use a charge and have more damage without spending 50 spec points in something that really amounts to more strength while gimping the ^%$# out of myself with a lack of spec points.
Fri 3 May 2019 5:08 PM by Mauriac
Is this still actually going to happen? Please tell me that the stat changes and the resist charges are not still going to happen. I don't want to find a new game so soon!
Fri 3 May 2019 5:28 PM by Drominchen
cere2 wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 4:53 PM
Drominchen wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 4:11 PM
cere2 wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 3:30 PM
So I get that, but I had the understanding that after 250 quick your dps did not raise even with faster swing speed.

Either way I guess I can see this as having some effect for assassin's switching poisons etc. But I think overall it brings more balance and makes people win with skill vs. winning because they don't have this buff up or that buff etc because of timers.
Also, if charges are left the way they are, there is really no reason for hunters/rangers/friars to spec self buffs because currently charges are much better.
46 PF gives ranger a 9.4 DA, you can quaff a potion for 11.3 and save those 46 wasted points....hunter is even worse.
I think if they don't want to change the way things are now, they should at least reduce the buff charges down to 50 instead of 75.
As far as achieving quickness cap or swing speed cap, the reduction would be the same for all who don't group.

that is not how it works.

at the moment most soloers run 3 buff charges all the time (str/con, dex/qui, spec af) using them at 0 mins, 2 mins, 4 mins. That gives you 2 mins (minute 6-8) to use some other charge item (legion heal, damage add) without blocking the reuse of your first buff item that you have to use at 10 mins again cause of 2 min item timer.

rangers have their DA up all the time plus a capped base strength buff (62 value) at 50 PF. Buff pot value of base strength is 29 iirc. That is "free" aug str 7. And you don't need spec af charge freeing you 2 more minutes to use a useful charge item (legion heal!). Only bad thing with PF is the weak dex/qui buff.

So 50 in PF is "free" aug str 7?

I know what you are saying here but don't discount the fact that its 50 spec points...leaving you with either utter garbage bow or utter garbage melee.
Spec AF isn't as high as charge, Dex/Quick isn't as high as charge, DA isn't as high as charge. Yes it's on constantly, but either way I could just use a charge and have more damage without spending 50 spec points in something that really amounts to more strength while gimping the ^%$# out of myself with a lack of spec points.

level 42 Spec AF is 80 points vs 75 points from charge. And 11.3 DA charge has only 30 sec duration vs constant 9.4 DA. PF is good as it is. Of course every ranger will use s/c and d/q like everyone else but as described above that is one less item timer giving you more time to use the OPed legion heal charge.

Of course you will gimp bow OR melee but thats the trade off. You cannot have everything. If you want to have high bow (35+) and high melee (39 blades and acceptable CD) you have to spec low PF (and then the buffs in PF are nearly useless...) and use spec AF charge. But like everyone else who runs 3 buff charges you will then not be able to rely on DA/heal charges cause of item timers.
Fri 3 May 2019 6:42 PM by Citian
Drominchen wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 5:28 PM
cere2 wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 4:53 PM
Drominchen wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 4:11 PM
that is not how it works.

at the moment most soloers run 3 buff charges all the time (str/con, dex/qui, spec af) using them at 0 mins, 2 mins, 4 mins. That gives you 2 mins (minute 6-8) to use some other charge item (legion heal, damage add) without blocking the reuse of your first buff item that you have to use at 10 mins again cause of 2 min item timer.

rangers have their DA up all the time plus a capped base strength buff (62 value) at 50 PF. Buff pot value of base strength is 29 iirc. That is "free" aug str 7. And you don't need spec af charge freeing you 2 more minutes to use a useful charge item (legion heal!). Only bad thing with PF is the weak dex/qui buff.

So 50 in PF is "free" aug str 7?

I know what you are saying here but don't discount the fact that its 50 spec points...leaving you with either utter garbage bow or utter garbage melee.
Spec AF isn't as high as charge, Dex/Quick isn't as high as charge, DA isn't as high as charge. Yes it's on constantly, but either way I could just use a charge and have more damage without spending 50 spec points in something that really amounts to more strength while gimping the ^%$# out of myself with a lack of spec points.

level 42 Spec AF is 80 points vs 75 points from charge. And 11.3 DA charge has only 30 sec duration vs constant 9.4 DA. PF is good as it is. Of course every ranger will use s/c and d/q like everyone else but as described above that is one less item timer giving you more time to use the OPed legion heal charge.

Of course you will gimp bow OR melee but thats the trade off. You cannot have everything. If you want to have high bow (35+) and high melee (39 blades and acceptable CD) you have to spec low PF (and then the buffs in PF are nearly useless...) and use spec AF charge. But like everyone else who runs 3 buff charges you will then not be able to rely on DA/heal charges cause of item timers.

So what you're trying to say is that these changes make PF totally unusable?
Fri 3 May 2019 7:11 PM by relvinian
How about instead of these changes just leave everything exactly the same.

But if you want to, make the charges and buff pots last 15 minutes.

Let me tell you something based on lots of experience on different servers--

When you get 38 pages of responses on something it is almost always something you don't want.

Because if people are that involved it is too polarizing and bad for the server.

So once you hit 38 pages of responses you really need to stop for a minute and think about stuff.

One of the best pieces of advice i ever received was from a friend of mine who said, "If you don't know what to do, don't do anything at all."

Saved me more than once.
Fri 3 May 2019 7:42 PM by cere2
level 42 Spec AF is 80 points vs 75 points from charge. And 11.3 DA charge has only 30 sec duration vs constant 9.4 DA. PF is good as it is. Of course every ranger will use s/c and d/q like everyone else but as described above that is one less item timer giving you more time to use the OPed legion heal charge.

Of course you will gimp bow OR melee but thats the trade off. You cannot have everything. If you want to have high bow (35+) and high melee (39 blades and acceptable CD) you have to spec low PF (and then the buffs in PF are nearly useless...) and use spec AF charge. But like everyone else who runs 3 buff charges you will then not be able to rely on DA/heal charges cause of item timers.
[/quote]


We know this. And this is the point. With buffs no one should spec into PF because its legit not worth the investment. IF THEY DIDN'T GIVE OUT BUFFS TO EVERYONE PF/BC WOULD BE WORTH IT.

This is why Live changed PF B/C lines. Everyone started using buffbots and they realized PF and BC and even some other self buff classes were obsolete, thus redesigned.

Phoenix is giving buff potions. Same thing as buffbot with slightly lower values....but they have yet to do what live did.....and fix these self buff lines to make them more viable!

Spec in PF to 50 if you want, but honestly your gimping yourself, which is probably why so few actually spec into it, unless they are just going full on melee/Shar.
And 50 in BC? I don't think I know anyone that has even tried it...why would they.
Fri 3 May 2019 8:09 PM by PingGuy
I like the change to the Combined Forces pot, and the removal of S/C and D/Q charges. But this does feel like a lot of changes all at once. Plenty has been said about the new charges, and I think there are convincing arguments there that those aren't a good idea. Does it really help to remove two must-have charges and replace them with two other must-have charges? I think that's the gist of what has been said.

I really don't think there is a good option to solve all of these issues at once, there are too many competing constituencies to satisfy them all. I am saddened that the changes seem to make points in PF worse rather than better. But I also can't decide whether removing buff potions or rolling everything into Combined Forces is a better option. It's all subjective based on the classes people play.
Fri 3 May 2019 9:38 PM by RaisingSun
Changes wont change anything.
Ignore the real issue with charges/buffs/pots
The server numbers will continue to slide till the make npc buffs available for all. Or allow 2nd accts.

Who the hell asked for a 20% melee resists for a lame 30 secs?

It's kinda like a poor kid dying from cancer and the doctor saying " Here's an ice cream, that should make it all better"

Blind leading the blind.
Fri 3 May 2019 11:02 PM by bigne88
chois wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 4:26 PM
like i always said , bc and pf line are useless, the only way is to follow the way of live (not all archery system) , put all the self buff in archery line with the same value that in live, up the dog in bc, sweet puppy but usefull, and u resolve the problem of archer and the problem of self buff

Who cares about archers?
Fri 3 May 2019 11:15 PM by Miiro
Stick, meet dead horse.
Sat 4 May 2019 12:11 AM by relvinian
Miiro wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 11:15 PM
Stick, meet dead horse.

I have seen comments about dead horses before, mostly from servers which are dead right now.

When you get 38 pages of replies from players, and counting, you aren't using a stick and the horse isn't dead.
Sat 4 May 2019 12:13 AM by Mauriac
RaisingSun wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 9:38 PM
Changes wont change anything.
Ignore the real issue with charges/buffs/pots
The server numbers will continue to slide till the make npc buffs available for all. Or allow 2nd accts.

Who the hell asked for a 20% melee resists for a lame 30 secs?

It's kinda like a poor kid dying from cancer and the doctor saying " Here's an ice cream, that should make it all better"

Blind leading the blind.

yeah the extra conc and stuff is great but nerfing the pot values is wtf? and to make it worse, you nailed it, NO ONE WANTS RESIST CHARGES. that crap is asinine
Sat 4 May 2019 1:45 AM by dbeattie71
Drominchen wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 4:11 PM
cere2 wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 3:30 PM
phixion wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 2:58 PM
Schettz has a google spreadsheet with swing speed calculator.

250 qui is essentially the max for swing speed, but moa still increases it up to 1.5s cap.

So I get that, but I had the understanding that after 250 quick your dps did not raise even with faster swing speed.

Either way I guess I can see this as having some effect for assassin's switching poisons etc. But I think overall it brings more balance and makes people win with skill vs. winning because they don't have this buff up or that buff etc because of timers.
Also, if charges are left the way they are, there is really no reason for hunters/rangers/friars to spec self buffs because currently charges are much better.
46 PF gives ranger a 9.4 DA, you can quaff a potion for 11.3 and save those 46 wasted points....hunter is even worse.
I think if they don't want to change the way things are now, they should at least reduce the buff charges down to 50 instead of 75.
As far as achieving quickness cap or swing speed cap, the reduction would be the same for all who don't group.

that is not how it works.

at the moment most soloers run 3 buff charges all the time (str/con, dex/qui, spec af) using them at 0 mins, 2 mins, 4 mins. That gives you 2 mins (minute 6-8) to use some other charge item (legion heal, damage add) without blocking the reuse of your first buff item that you have to use at 10 mins again cause of 2 min item timer.

rangers have their DA up all the time plus a capped base strength buff (62 value) at 50 PF. Buff pot value of base strength is 29 iirc. That is "free" aug str 7. And you don't need spec af charge freeing you 2 more minutes to use a useful charge item (legion heal!). Only bad thing with PF is the weak dex/qui buff.

You get it though, nob rangers said I was wasting points specing 50PF for 29 extra str.
Sat 4 May 2019 1:50 AM by dbeattie71
cere2 wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 4:53 PM
Drominchen wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 4:11 PM
cere2 wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 3:30 PM
So I get that, but I had the understanding that after 250 quick your dps did not raise even with faster swing speed.

Either way I guess I can see this as having some effect for assassin's switching poisons etc. But I think overall it brings more balance and makes people win with skill vs. winning because they don't have this buff up or that buff etc because of timers.
Also, if charges are left the way they are, there is really no reason for hunters/rangers/friars to spec self buffs because currently charges are much better.
46 PF gives ranger a 9.4 DA, you can quaff a potion for 11.3 and save those 46 wasted points....hunter is even worse.
I think if they don't want to change the way things are now, they should at least reduce the buff charges down to 50 instead of 75.
As far as achieving quickness cap or swing speed cap, the reduction would be the same for all who don't group.

that is not how it works.

at the moment most soloers run 3 buff charges all the time (str/con, dex/qui, spec af) using them at 0 mins, 2 mins, 4 mins. That gives you 2 mins (minute 6-8) to use some other charge item (legion heal, damage add) without blocking the reuse of your first buff item that you have to use at 10 mins again cause of 2 min item timer.

rangers have their DA up all the time plus a capped base strength buff (62 value) at 50 PF. Buff pot value of base strength is 29 iirc. That is "free" aug str 7. And you don't need spec af charge freeing you 2 more minutes to use a useful charge item (legion heal!). Only bad thing with PF is the weak dex/qui buff.

So 50 in PF is "free" aug str 7?

I know what you are saying here but don't discount the fact that its 50 spec points...leaving you with either utter garbage bow or utter garbage melee.
Spec AF isn't as high as charge, Dex/Quick isn't as high as charge, DA isn't as high as charge. Yes it's on constantly, but either way I could just use a charge and have more damage without spending 50 spec points in something that really amounts to more strength while gimping the ^%$# out of myself with a lack of spec points.

Bow is garbage if you put points in it, 50PF means I don’t have to hire an intern with a stop watch to manage my charges.
Sat 4 May 2019 2:28 AM by BTFD
Another necro nerf wtf neverending beta is right
Sat 4 May 2019 4:06 AM by Yokahu
BTFD wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 2:28 AM
Another necro nerf wtf neverending beta is right

Yeah, I was thinking about the necro. Everyone is gonna get sweet buffs from pots but necro might get left out from this change.
Sat 4 May 2019 5:30 AM by necrolove1
BTFD wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 2:28 AM
Another necro nerf wtf neverending beta is right

yeah by the looks of it, necros are gonna get another slap in the face.
Sat 4 May 2019 6:17 AM by Fugax
Best thing about everything said here... " they listen to the community"..... Right......
Sat 4 May 2019 7:08 AM by Cswag80
So glad to be done with the constant /use. Keep up the good work! 🤘🏻
Sat 4 May 2019 7:11 AM by tommccartney
The buff system is fine the way it is

If 20% melee/magic charges are implemented I will probably stop playing, if I wanted to play a server where charges and item /uses determine fights I’d play live
Sat 4 May 2019 11:12 AM by Peppar
leave everything as it is

increase charges and buff pots timers

and no iwin resist charges plz
Sat 4 May 2019 12:41 PM by Cruella
Listen to your playerbase pls. #no-resi-charges
Sat 4 May 2019 1:14 PM by Waygone
Can we PLEASE get a community vote on this bull@#&× already?
I think nearly 40 PAGES should warrant that!
Or does the community even matter when regarding this change?
Sat 4 May 2019 1:41 PM by waffel
Remember the community vote on flag porting? They really listened then, huh? Not sure a community vote matters to the devs.
Sat 4 May 2019 2:17 PM by relvinian
It matters, and they do a good job, generally.

But the issue is the 20% resist buff for gold.

That is a complete non starter.
Sat 4 May 2019 2:54 PM by SushiPingoo
I'd rather have a kind of vote to see what the ppl who qq play, 'cause i clearly think stealthers had too much advantage on how buff pot / charges used to work, wwhat's the point of having a buffer ? What's the point of specing AUG to get red buffs, if you can get better through charges ? Maybe their changes are going to be trash, but at least their are trying to fix that. No point in QQing again and again, trashtalk them, again and again when they are doing good figuring problems, maybe the sovling will be wrong, fine, they will find a fix at a point..
Sat 4 May 2019 3:16 PM by Cruella
I dont know why the devs are thinking they have to add something as compensation for loosing the old charges. There is no need. A few pixel plats are nothing
to brag about. Better have the whole picture in mind. 99,99% of players here are adults on paper. Pixels....god...
Sat 4 May 2019 4:01 PM by lurker
RaisingSun wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 3:19 PM
Fugax wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 6:17 AM
Best thing about everything said here... " they listen to the community"..... Right......

Edited. Greetings, Uthred.

I find it hard to believe the average age of a DAOC player has to be somewhere between 30 and 40 when you see this sort of thing...
Sat 4 May 2019 5:53 PM by Mauriac
still silence with regards to the buff nerfs and resist charges.... hoping that nothing comes of it. just in case though ill be downloading some steam games to occupy my time if that crap actually happens. pretty sure i wont be the only one.
Sat 4 May 2019 5:58 PM by jhaerik
To achieve the first goal:
1) Increase the available conc by 25%
2) Remove 20 buff cap
3) Small delve increase to the acuity buff
4) Add spec AF to bards and healer

To achieve the second goal:
1) 30% buff of buff potion delve. This means from 65 (base + spec from current buff potion) or 101 (buff potion base + spec charge) to 83 (33 base, 50 spec)
2) haste potion and combo potion use the same haste
3) add appropriate spec AF to combo buff potion

To achieve the third goal:
1) s/c charge becomes a 20% secondary magic resists charge for 30 seconds
2) d/q charge becomes a 20% secondary melee resists charge for 30 seconds


This is so bad it's funny.
On the bright side Uthgard might get some players back.

This causes more issues than it fixes.

More available conc/buffs is a straight Alb buff,they are the only ones that only run two buffers.
Alb/Mid already had AF charges, so +1 for Alb.

Better buff pots? Joy. Most of use wanted to have a reason to stop chugging the GD things. Soooooo you made them better? Good job.

The magic resist charge is useless. The melee resist charge is stupidly strong.
We were complaining about not being able to use offense charges due to buff charges..... SOOOOO you put in a 20% melee resist buff charge that literally every single person is going to use every single fight?

Oh look... another mid nerf.

You know I'm glad I already quit... or this might be more upsetting.
Sat 4 May 2019 6:01 PM by jhaerik
Niix wrote:
Fri 3 May 2019 3:52 PM
There should be a quiz you need to pass before you're allowed to comment on these type of changes -_-

There should be a quiz you have to pass before making an "Intended Change" this bad public.
Sat 4 May 2019 6:19 PM by jhaerik
gruenesschaf wrote:
Thu 2 May 2019 2:19 PM
Being against the new charge was something that was expected and is fine and would lead to a nerfing of that charge, the intention for it is to be about as powerful as the legion charge in solo play while accepting that with more effective hp in groups it would have had a greater effect there.

However, the hostility towards the remainder of the changes is unexpected given that it's basically making item buffs have a lot more QOL while nerfing the maximum achievable stat points by 18. Given that it's a nerf of 18 maximum points the remarks regarding this being worse for self buff classes is also surprising.

The amount of people who think Spec AF is an alb exclusive buff that is randomly given to hib/mid is staggering. Spec af already exists as a craftable charge available to and used by all 3 realms, this is a normal SI crafting recipe.

We didn't want the damn legion items to begin with. You just forced them on us.

I sure as hell don't remember a poll asking

Do you guys want lots of ToA crap added in?
    Yes.
    Hell NO!
Sat 4 May 2019 9:15 PM by Tyrlaan
Are these still planned? Any definite answer? I'm no fan of sweeping changes such as these.

They break and devalue too many classes, specs, characters, items, change core aspects (such as importance of 250 qui, of micromanagement of cooldown on items and abilities etc) which opens up a whole can of new problems. I mean you'd have to revise every class that suffers from this change, making it something else than it was, sparking new debates and making this into a different game... whereas most here just want to play the DAoC they know. These changes make it feel like a beta, a game in experimental status, a sandbox - and risking its population everytime. I can foresee quite a few players feeling the same, not eager to invest time into a game they might not like after another one of these changes.

Small changes and reevaluate them. Not everybody needs everything for free. But if you want everybody to have all buffs all the time instead of making them work for something their class doesn't offer, there's a way easier solution to this without changing the whole game. The QoL argument shouldn't spawn too many freebies IMO. So some don't leave PK before they charged 3 items to get some attributes maxed instead of using a lower buff potion value meanwhile... what's next, mashable RAs because some don't leave PK before everything is up?
Sat 4 May 2019 9:16 PM by Citian
jhaerik wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 5:58 PM
....
More available conc/buffs is a straight Alb buff,they are the only ones that only run two buffers.
Alb/Mid already had AF charges, so +1 for Alb.

Better buff pots? Joy. Most of use wanted to have a reason to stop chugging the GD things. Soooooo you made them better? Good job.

The magic resist charge is useless. The melee resist charge is stupidly strong.
We were complaining about not being able to use offense charges due to buff charges..... SOOOOO you put in a 20% melee resist buff charge that literally every single person is going to use every single fight?

Oh look... another mid nerf.


Albs have the least flexibility per group and yet they are the only ones to benefit from this change? Any realm can run a 2 spec buffer per group setup. Arguably the other two realms can do it more easily and more successfully.

The magic resist charge is not useless and is, in my opinion, the more needed of the two. The 20% secondary melee resist buff probably seems like a gigantic deal to: assassins, archers and skalds. Otherwise these don't negatively affect one realm more than any other, (e.g. 20% magic ruins hib magic debuff stun n gun trains!111; Alb gets boned both waiz). No it's a band-aid on an oozing wound and with that it is way too broad of a stroke in both directions [melee & magic] which makes zero sense. However, that is okay, maybe this is an experiment meant to collect data for a more precise placement of correct measures towards balance.

Edit: And I forgot, buff pots are slightly buffed but the overall achievable stats are lower because of the lack of spec-stat charges. So, they are not only more time-efficient, cost-efficient, and user-friendly, they (buffs) will be less effective overall. It is a nerf. Overall.
Sat 4 May 2019 10:36 PM by relvinian
The problem with the resist buff is that it becomes a must have. You think you can beat someone with 46 slash resist when u have 26?

Dream on.
Sun 5 May 2019 12:19 AM by relvinian
I thought about it some more.

Go with all your suggestions as they are for both 1 and 2.

Part 3 don't devalue the sc items? Give everyone the feathers for those charge items as a refund.


To hell with the charge items, with pot and buff increase they are not needed so rather than give people another must have, just get rid of them and give a refund.

If that refund is not enough? Give everyone a refund on their charge items and give them one extra free ra and realm respec to "adjust" for all the recent changes.
Sun 5 May 2019 12:27 AM by florin
relvinian wrote:
Sun 5 May 2019 12:19 AM
I thought about it some more.

Go with all your suggestions as they are for both 1 and 2.

Part 3 don't devalue the sc items? Give everyone the feathers for those charge items as a refund.


To hell with the charge items, with pot and buff increase they are not needed so rather than give people another must have, just get rid of them and give a refund.

If that refund is not enough? Give everyone a refund on their charge items and give them one extra free ra and realm respec to "adjust" for all the recent changes.

We’re talking about a 18 loss on s/c/d and 25 on quick. This is not presented at all in the original goals of this change.
Sun 5 May 2019 1:13 AM by Yokahu
florin wrote:
Sun 5 May 2019 12:27 AM
relvinian wrote:
Sun 5 May 2019 12:19 AM
I thought about it some more.

Go with all your suggestions as they are for both 1 and 2.

Part 3 don't devalue the sc items? Give everyone the feathers for those charge items as a refund.


To hell with the charge items, with pot and buff increase they are not needed so rather than give people another must have, just get rid of them and give a refund.

If that refund is not enough? Give everyone a refund on their charge items and give them one extra free ra and realm respec to "adjust" for all the recent changes.

We’re talking about a 18 loss on s/c/d and 25 on quick. This is not presented at all in the original goals of this change.

If they remove the buffpots completely or the charges, you will get zip for s/c/d and quickness. So losing 25 qui is nothing compare to the alternative
Sun 5 May 2019 1:48 AM by Mauriac
florin wrote:
Sun 5 May 2019 12:27 AM
relvinian wrote:
Sun 5 May 2019 12:19 AM
I thought about it some more.

Go with all your suggestions as they are for both 1 and 2.

Part 3 don't devalue the sc items? Give everyone the feathers for those charge items as a refund.


To hell with the charge items, with pot and buff increase they are not needed so rather than give people another must have, just get rid of them and give a refund.

If that refund is not enough? Give everyone a refund on their charge items and give them one extra free ra and realm respec to "adjust" for all the recent changes.

We’re talking about a 18 loss on s/c/d and 25 on quick. This is not presented at all in the original goals of this change.

Which is a massive nerf for specific classes and for all soloers and smallmans. This will reduce population. As I said before, no one will come back over this, but people will leave over it.
Sun 5 May 2019 7:02 AM by SlowMo
For the juggling Thing- Wouldn‘t it be easisest to just give every charge item/buffpot it‘s one reuse timer?

Or do I miss something here?

And a Big fat no to the extra 20% resist!
Sun 5 May 2019 7:24 AM by amoz
SlowMo wrote:
Sun 5 May 2019 7:02 AM
For the juggling Thing- Wouldn‘t it be easisest to just give every charge item/buffpot it‘s one reuse timer?

Or do I miss something here?

You don't remember this from Beta, when people stopped running nurture druids/shamans because everyone had their own specs?
Sun 5 May 2019 9:24 AM by relvinian
I'm throwing ideas up against the wall here.

Let's brainstorm and solve this.

Adding more items u MUST HAVE to pvp is not good.
Sun 5 May 2019 11:35 AM by labra
Lower buff pots value to make a real difference with buffers ans selfbuffers.

Extend pots timers, maybe make them resist through death.

Keep s/c and d/q charges so players can choose between long but lower buffs or powerfull but short timer charges.
Sun 5 May 2019 12:08 PM by jelzinga_EU
relvinian wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 10:36 PM
The problem with the resist buff is that it becomes a must have. You think you can beat someone with 46 slash resist when u have 26?

Dream on.

Yet when shadowblades make this point, with 16 vs. 36 % Slash resists they get 20+pages that is all fine. Funny how balance works...

For the record, I agree with you, these charges are way too strong. Fights with these up or down will determine alot of fights.
Sun 5 May 2019 2:56 PM by Dacht
Easy solution: Eliminate buff potions and buff charge items.

Done.

Spec for them or group for them.
Sun 5 May 2019 2:58 PM by Mauriac
jelzinga_EU wrote:
Sun 5 May 2019 12:08 PM
relvinian wrote:
Sat 4 May 2019 10:36 PM
The problem with the resist buff is that it becomes a must have. You think you can beat someone with 46 slash resist when u have 26?

Dream on.

Yet when shadowblades make this point, with 16 vs. 36 % Slash resists they get 20+pages that is all fine. Funny how balance works...

For the record, I agree with you, these charges are way too strong. Fights with these up or down will determine alot of fights.

and yet bards and mids are gonna get spec AF with this change but shadowblades can keep sucking it
Sun 5 May 2019 4:15 PM by Numatic
Everyone asking to remove buffpots... they cant. And wont.

I think some of you fail to realise just how many people dont group out there. These players make up the majority of RvR. Not the other way around. Have you ever ran solo unbuffed? You have no chance in just about any situation. Even an unbuffed assasin getting PA/CD off on a buffed caster isnt a sure thing. I know, I've done it. Buffs make a person so ridiculously OP vs an unbuffed player it's not even funny.

I have 5 lvl 50s that I solod to 50. I dont group. Why? Mainly because many people on this server are weird or bad players and I dont feel like interacting with them. I accept that being solo I will get a lot of roll deaths. It's the nature of it. But I will definitely not stick around if the ability to buff is removed from soloers and saying "group up". Yes because a buffer wants to group with a stealther, or one of the 10 other non meta classes. And trust me, alot of others would quit too. Solo/duo/smallman make up a large portion of the zerg. Running around unbuffed would make them fodder for any buffed 8man.

Basically it would turn the server into 8v8 who already run away from each other all day so they can roll smaller numbers. It would be uthgard all over because you would be catering to a single playstyle. An 8man always has an advantage over a random 8 soloers fighting together even with buffpots. Removing buffs would make it so unbalanced it wouldn't be worth it to even try. Now you're saying we should sit at the pk for upwards of 30mins trying to get a group just so we can compete? Sorry but I'm not sitting around for that long to PvP and I'm not interested in a meta group class.
Sun 5 May 2019 10:20 PM by Dacht
Your thinking is flawed.

You only NEED buffpots because everyone has them.

IF they are removed, you will no longer need them to compete with other classes who also do not have them.

The only thing that would change is that classes who are INTENDED to have self buffs would no longer have one of their prime lines render useless.

You could still solo till the cows come home.
Sun 5 May 2019 11:56 PM by Numatic
Dacht wrote:
Sun 5 May 2019 10:20 PM
Your thinking is flawed.

You only NEED buffpots because everyone has them.

IF they are removed, you will no longer need them to compete with other classes who also do not have them.

The only thing that would change is that classes who are INTENDED to have self buffs would no longer have one of their prime lines render useless.

You could still solo till the cows come home.

No flaw there. I'm well aware of how it looks. To you it's simple math. 1-1=0 right? But it's not that simple. This game was built around the idea that every class is buffed. Mythic stated so themselves. If you removed buffpots, soooooo many things would need to change. A class that is very strong with buffs, even vs another buffed player, will perform far differently unbuffed. It's not a linear loss in performance. Self buffing classes would be OP. I can guarantee a solo aug healer would be a thing.

Also think of the player base. RvR will shift into an 8v8 meta because people want to feel strong. Dealing with any kind of buffed player would be an instant loss. I have gone absolute HAM on my NS while unbuffed on many classes (Pa combo and all) and got my ass thoroughly handed to me. It would shift any kind of group fighting to only groups. Nobody would even bother jumping in. But then again, maybe that's what you want? Who knows.

People who solo dont just do it for the 1v1 fights. Those dont happen against none stealthers often enough anyway. They do it because they get to fight with like minded players in larger numbers the way they want to. Without any obligation for a meta except to themselves. Removing buff pots would cause massive shift in how RvR flows. Honestly I wish the devs would do a no buff pot weekend event to put it to rest. It would probably result in the lowest RvR turnout yet.
Mon 6 May 2019 12:24 AM by Zirc
Numatic wrote:
Sun 5 May 2019 11:56 PM
This game was built around the idea that every class is buffed. Mythic stated so themselves.

I see people parrot this all the time. It's not true. The game was built around only certain classes having access to buffs. When they DID add buff pots, the self-buffing classes were adjusted (eventually) to make them relevant.

What one Mythic employee said at some point in the game's 12+ years doesn't matter.
Mon 6 May 2019 12:42 AM by Numatic
Zirc wrote:
Mon 6 May 2019 12:24 AM
Numatic wrote:
Sun 5 May 2019 11:56 PM
This game was built around the idea that every class is buffed. Mythic stated so themselves.

I see people parrot this all the time. It's not true. The game was built around only certain classes having access to buffs. When they DID add buff pots, the self-buffing classes were adjusted (eventually) to make them relevant.

What one Mythic employee said at some point in the game's 12+ years doesn't matter.

If it wasnt true then why would they need to specifically adjust self buffing classes due to buffpots? Just because one mythic employee said so, so long ago doesnt make it less true either. And I'm all for self buffing classes being adjusted appropriately. Its obvious pots made them weaker. But saying that the game isnt based around players being buffed when it's been the meta for 17 years is a bit naive.
Mon 6 May 2019 5:21 AM by Emeryc
Numatic wrote:
Sun 5 May 2019 11:56 PM
No flaw there. I'm well aware of how it looks. To you it's simple math. 1-1=0 right? But it's not that simple. This game was built around the idea that every class is buffed. Mythic stated so themselves. If you removed buffpots, soooooo many things would need to change. A class that is very strong with buffs, even vs another buffed player, will perform far differently unbuffed. It's not a linear loss in performance. Self buffing classes would be OP. I can guarantee a solo aug healer would be a thing.

Also think of the player base. RvR will shift into an 8v8 meta because people want to feel strong. Dealing with any kind of buffed player would be an instant loss. I have gone absolute HAM on my NS while unbuffed on many classes (Pa combo and all) and got my ass thoroughly handed to me. It would shift any kind of group fighting to only groups. Nobody would even bother jumping in. But then again, maybe that's what you want? Who knows.

People who solo dont just do it for the 1v1 fights. Those dont happen against none stealthers often enough anyway. They do it because they get to fight with like minded players in larger numbers the way they want to. Without any obligation for a meta except to themselves. Removing buff pots would cause massive shift in how RvR flows. Honestly I wish the devs would do a no buff pot weekend event to put it to rest. It would probably result in the lowest RvR turnout yet.

That is a massive misinterpretation. Mythic did state that the end game was built around having buffs WHILE IN A GROUP. Pots and charges were added well after launch, well after the advent of buffbots and well after solos whined for them. This argument is just silly.

You keep talking about buffed vs. unbuffed scenarios... if there are no buff pots/charges, when is this likely to happen? Only when a solo faces a group... and why should that solo have any expectation of winning in that encounter, buffed or otherwise?!

But even if the devs insist on allowing everyone to be fully buffed, regardless of grouping... then just &*^ing give everyone permanent buffs: double, triple or even quadruple stat gains from levelling. Problem solved without pots and charges and all the bull%$#*.
/edit profanity
Mon 6 May 2019 8:13 AM by Sepplord
I just want to remind everyone here, that the server needs goldsinks.
the reason that the charge-buffs aren't simply removed (regardless of with or without compensation) is because they are needed as goldsinks.

That is also the reason why the new charges need to be very strong, so they are used a lot.

The main problems with the charges weren't that they cost gold. The problems were that they
a) cost the soloer much more gold than the grouped person
b) created an unfun gameplay-loop for people juggling charges/waiting for chargetimers/etc...

And those problems are adressed by the change. Most suggestions i read here so far, do not adress the goldsink problem at all when they call for removal of charges completely or similar changes.
(i also think the planned resist charges are a problem. I personally dislike too strong actives, and if they are available i prefer having them as reactive-cooldowns (aka healcharge: i use when needed) instead of preemptively needing to resist-buff at the start of the fight...but i understand that the latter is a better goldsink.)
Mon 6 May 2019 10:23 AM by Bobbahunter
I don't think adding an AF buff to the buffs is a good thing. As a Hunter I already have a hard time with Bow dmg and now your giving everyone AF which will further lower my dps from ranged !?!?!

Not to mention I have an AF self buff and its already hard enough going up against Assassins and NOW they get more defense ?!?

IF this is about making things easier then why the big changes and not just making things easier, Take baby steps and do not mess this whole thing up with a HUGE change.

More buffs for Buff classes.
LIttle boost to Buff Pots.
Increase timer to 15 mins.
Lower cost to recharge Items.

If someone want to be ELITE and juggle 3 different charge timers then let them. Don't change the whole system because some people want it easier.

Give everyone free college and health care while your at it
Mon 6 May 2019 11:09 AM by amoz
Bobbahunter wrote:
Mon 6 May 2019 10:23 AM
I don't think adding an AF buff to the buffs is a good thing. As a Hunter I already have a hard time with Bow dmg and now your giving everyone AF which will further lower my dps from ranged !?!?!
Not to mention I have an AF self buff and its already hard enough going up against Assassins and NOW they get more defense ?!?
Today everyone has +75 AF from Spec AF charge. The potion value will be less so your bow and melee damage is actually increased.
Bobbahunter wrote:
Mon 6 May 2019 10:23 AM
Give everyone free college and health care while your at it
This is pretty much the case in the civilized world
Mon 6 May 2019 11:19 AM by Bobbahunter
Oh. Nice then. I didn’t consider most people run AF charges all the time. If that’s is the case then I welcome it. 😃. Thanks for the info.
Mon 6 May 2019 11:26 AM by Tyrlaan
Bobbahunter wrote:
Mon 6 May 2019 10:23 AM
If someone want to be ELITE and juggle 3 different charge timers then let them. Don't change the whole system because some people want it easier.

Exactly. I still don't get why such a huge change upsetting a delicate balance.

People can max their stats with charges or in groups with buffers. In fact many chose their race and starting attributes just so that they cap (and don't overcap) in this perfect scenario. One requires somebody else to buff you, the other has gold cost and timer restrictions. If the perfect scenario does not apply, they can still run with the lower pot value (just like people sometimes have to settle with a cooldown timer on an RA). It also keeps the gap to those who can run buffs 24/7 because of their class. And people have to prioritize what to use their precious timer for, spec AF is usually less priority than acuity (as a caster in a group) or dex/qui (as a caster in a group after a rezz) or as a stealther etc. So there are options, decisions to be made and they all come at a cost.

This change removes buff charges and also makes all buffs 24/7 with a cost negligible enough so that people don't whine about keeping it up (see recharge cost as one reason for this change, i.e. it's not even designed to be a gold sink). And it lowers maximum attributes achievable - with no option to go beyond with extra cash or timer juggling. It removes options, devalues spec lines and turns everybody into a vampire.

If having to restart the charge timer cycle after just 10 mins is the problem, increase buff duration or make them last until death (same for self buffs with a duration then). If the 0-2-4 timer juggling at the start bothers you, put items on different timers (but it will also mean everybody will be running at max buffs every time they leave the PK, then you could as well remove a couple spec lines - and if you reduce recharge cost, you could just have hasteners apply the max stat buffs too). There's plenty ways to address a specific problem without turning this game upside down.
Mon 6 May 2019 1:57 PM by Lev
as this hasn't been patched yet, I guess there is still an internal discussion.
I hope you revert some of the planned changes here.

some questions i asked myself:
why the change to the pot buff values? this is a baseline for everyone as everyone can afford them and they are very easy to use. by buffing them all you change is weaken real buffs (selfbuffs and buffclasses). all those real buffs must been specced higher or they are useless.

why hand out spec AF to everyone? afterwards this a new baseline and you can't balance anything with AF anymore.

why make charges even more powerful and mandatory than before?

===========================================

IMO (again)
do a much simpler approach:

To achieve the first goal:
1) Increase the available conc by 25%
2) Remove 20 buff cap
3) Small delve increase to the acuity buff
4) removed

To achieve the second and third goal:
1) buff potion delve remain unchanged.
2) haste potion and combo potion use the same haste
3) only one buff charge (str/con, dex/qui, AF, haste) can be used at the same time. any timer on these charges has been removed, all you have to be is out of combat.
4) recharges are now cheaper.
Mon 6 May 2019 2:29 PM by cere2
#1. Daoc was not originally balanced with every class being fully buffed. That is a garbage statement and everyone should know it.
It was balanced farther down the road with all classes fully buffed because of buff-bots. Self buffing classes/specs were all adjusted at that point.

#2. Just because some people can juggle all 3 charges and pay the costs that go along with having all those buffs at all times, doesn't make it right. I would say
"in general" most players don't have the patience to spend so much time PvE just to pay to RvR and be on same playing field as those that do. For those that do, they are already RR 10-11 etc and they don't need the advantage anymore because they are so much higher RR anyhow.

#3. Daoc was supposed have battles won with some aspect or RNG and skill/tactics combined. A RR 3 could beat a RR 8 if they outplayed them and had some RNG on their side. It was not intended to have battles decided based on who has the most buffs up at the time of battle. This change I think helps alleviate that. Yes some won't be able to cap stats like quickness etc. But that would be the same for everyone. For those that have the 8-10 hours a day playtime, they have higher RR and can possibly cap them anyhow.

#4. With the melee and magic charges, I agree these are not necessary.
Mon 6 May 2019 3:44 PM by Tamtrooper
1st--loving the server thanks for all the work!

2nd--I will adapt to any changes made with no big problems.

3rd--Since you seem to take players opinions into consideration and you have not gone forward with the buff changes as of yet I will add my voice to the chorus of people saying that 20% resist charge items would not be a welcome change.
Mon 6 May 2019 5:25 PM by Lordzolio
I don't have a lot of time to play so if there is going to be a changes, I feel these are priorities.

1. increase time on all pots and charges/reuse timers on multi pot /uses
2. Cost is very high to self buff. ( IE. buying pots and re charging items, It cost time to farm, then sell to get gold to purchase said items)
3. Grouped players vs. Self buffing players vs. solo small man vs. none buffing players etc ect..... there is never going to be a perfect balance to buffs
with daoc. PvP is the game. DAOC was designed from the ground up as a pvp title and classes that could buff are part of it. Alchemy and charges
came later on, but was needed for other play styles. Where they wrong?

It seems that most of the players that have posted on this thread are strongly against the idea of the change.
I feel that yes some changes need to be addressed on time and cost, buff values and increase to stat % i am not.
Also remember just because you and I post are opinions here does not mean that there are people out there
that do not and there opinions about the game might be different.

I think we need to have some kind of poll to help decide on the changes. Direct people in game to come here and poll
via game News when you login. @Uthred @gruenesschaf
Mon 6 May 2019 6:52 PM by Exarcia
Lev wrote:
Mon 6 May 2019 1:57 PM
3) only one buff charge (str/con, dex/qui, AF, haste) can be used at the same time. any timer on these charges has been removed, all you have to be is out of combat.


So your solution is to remove str/dex specs from the game? Actually anything that relies on charges would be severely gimped. Str specs with no quickness. Str/dex with low con and str.
Mon 6 May 2019 10:23 PM by alusnova415
I'll add my comment and I'm not the most knowledgeable daoc person out there but to me the better solution would be:

1. Keep potions stats as they are but extend their duration to 15 or 20 minutes.

2. Remove charges completely , making them meele/magic resists will simply force you to use them since everyone else will, why not remove them and refund the items via the exchange vendor for 2p coin?

To me the vision should be:

A. If grouped you get the best buffs from an enhance spec buffer. This buffs should always be better than potions.

2. If solo (no self-buff class) using potions puts you a step below players buffs but on equal footing vs other soloers .

3. Self buffing classes can spec on their buff line and get their buffs or use combined forces and put those points into their weapon, spec weapons , defense spec (parry. Shield) that otherwise would have went to the buff line therefore making you more efficient . I know this one is tough because self buff classes feel the potions diminishes their buffs but at least with combine forces you can choose. Again dont know the better solution to this.
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