Introducing the new RvR Score System

Started 8 Aug 2018
by gruenesschaf
in Planned Changes
The RvR Score System unifies the keep and most relic bonuses (xp, bp, coin, craftime) while also making player kills and other rvr related activities count.


How it works:
Keeps have an assigned point value that depends on the keep level, Relics also have an assigned point value. Kills, events and rvr tasks are rewarded with dynamic points.

The percentage of the total points your realm has is the bonus you will receive towards xp, bp, coin and crafttime.

Dynamic points are subject to attrition: every 10 minutes a certain percentage (0.2% currently) is removed from the dynamic points of each realm (per realm, not 0.2% of all dynamic points).


This rvr score system will go live later today (the 8th of august). Feedback is welcome and future changes are very likely.
Wed 8 Aug 2018 12:12 PM by Dragonn
You are geniuses
Wed 8 Aug 2018 1:32 PM by Chaskha
So to see if I understand it correctly: each time a player earns RPs, it is added to a realm pool of sort (DP). That realm pool decreases over time, effectively penalizing RvR inactivity.
Realm Bonus is granted for everything based on a formula using DP as main variable.

Is this the correct interpretation?
Wed 8 Aug 2018 1:41 PM by gruenesschaf
Mostly, yes except the bonus depends on fixed + dynamic points and - at least until there is a sizable dynamic pool - the fixed points will greatly outnumber the dynamic pool, it should eventually balance close to 50/50 which is something we might adjust depending on what exactly we want to value more.

The dynamic point reward is also not exactly tied to RP but just given explicitly for rvr related activies.
Wed 8 Aug 2018 3:13 PM by sebbo
Not bad. When I heard about a "score system", I was afraid that some system that gives bonus within a fight would come - at least the announcements sounded like that. But that sounds nice.
Wed 8 Aug 2018 8:53 PM by Chaskha
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 8 Aug 2018 1:41 PM
Mostly, yes except the bonus depends on fixed + dynamic points and - at least until there is a sizable dynamic pool - the fixed points will greatly outnumber the dynamic pool, it should eventually balance close to 50/50 which is something we might adjust depending on what exactly we want to value more.

The dynamic point reward is also not exactly tied to RP but just given explicitly for rvr related activies.

Thanks for the additional explanation
Wed 8 Aug 2018 9:57 PM by rubaduck
Its good to see something new being added, as it can indeed give a better incentive for more RVR.

How is this system working in an unfavoured situation where one side has more active players then the others? Will they always be granted a bigger bonus then the others or will this somehow even out. Lets say Albion is outnumbering mids and hibs 2 to 1 for example (an extreme over exaggeration) will this system then reflect that?
Wed 8 Aug 2018 11:33 PM by Zansobar
What is the maximum bonus that can be achieved in this system?
Thu 9 Aug 2018 7:47 AM by Druth
I like RvR incentives, because we really need it

But am I mistaken in my understanding that this might work as a snowball effect for one realm?

Say Albs roll out with 3 fg's, kill Hibs/Mids without them getting any rps. Now Albs has bonus rp's, and so more Albs come out to RvR, meaning Hibs/MIds have to fight even more, and wipe again. Now 5-7 fg Albs come out because bonus keeps increasing.

Does the system someway have a reward system for coming out against the odds?


For example each death around keeps (on Uthgard) would add a take/defend bonus for when it was finally over.

Could this system also had to the pool of points awarded each time your realm has deaths, and when you lose keeps? This would create a great incentive for groups who wipe, to come back out again. DaoC is full of people who suddenly has tons of housework to do when their group wipes.


I mean, basically you want a system that rewards coming out to RvR, no matter if you win or lose. You already get points for winning, I think bonus rps for losing (remember you still have to kill/take keeps to actually benefit from the bonus) would be a good thing.
Thu 9 Aug 2018 10:55 AM by gruenesschaf
Defending / Attacking a keep will already have an rp pool where the winner and looser get something (75%/25%).

And as for changes to the score system, especially wrt imbalanced realm: changes will happen, for now it looks like the realms are rather balanced and there is attrition so that it doesn't get too out of hand.

Anyways, I kind of like the idea that when someone dies say 1/5 of the points is added to a pool and when your realm then is awarded dynamic points up to 100% of those points is taken as bonus from that death pool. This might be something to look into or maybe test out while in the i50 phase.

Taking population, or rather active rvr population, into account for the dynamic points rewards would be possible and might be a good choice when it really becomes imbalanced.
Thu 9 Aug 2018 6:36 PM by relvinian
rubaduck wrote:
Wed 8 Aug 2018 9:57 PM
Its good to see something new being added, as it can indeed give a better incentive for more RVR.

How is this system working in an unfavoured situation where one side has more active players then the others? Will they always be granted a bigger bonus then the others or will this somehow even out. Lets say Albion is outnumbering mids and hibs 2 to 1 for example (an extreme over exaggeration) will this system then reflect that?

Perhaps use a number derived from population and score both.
Fri 10 Aug 2018 6:29 AM by Mac
gruenesschaf wrote:
Thu 9 Aug 2018 10:55 AM
Defending / Attacking a keep will already have an rp pool where the winner and looser get something (75%/25%).

And as for changes to the score system, especially wrt imbalanced realm: changes will happen, for now it looks like the realms are rather balanced and there is attrition so that it doesn't get too out of hand.

Anyways, I kind of like the idea that when someone dies say 1/5 of the points is added to a pool and when your realm then is awarded dynamic points up to 100% of those points is taken as bonus from that death pool. This might be something to look into or maybe test out while in the i50 phase.

Taking population, or rather active rvr population, into account for the dynamic points rewards would be possible and might be a good choice when it really becomes imbalanced.
It will be imbalanced from day1 of live launch. Why? Cause from the beta people already see which realm is the most fun and will flock to that realm.
Thu 30 Aug 2018 5:10 PM by Kaziera
not with underdog bonus
Sat 22 Sep 2018 2:20 PM by schreon
I really appreciate the innovative stuff the staff comes up with! Thank you, guys! However, I want to share my thoughts on this specific system.

Criticism: Relative Score
As much as I support the idea of fostering realm pride, I have a feeling this specific system makes things even worse for underpopulated realms and does not reward the right people.

This system rewards playing non-stop instead of pulling off massive events that are hard to do. A person playing all day solo, not caring about other realm mates and maybe even offending them will contribute an insane amount of points to this. Most people don't even notice and no one promotes a plan like "Hey, let's achieve 40% RvR score today" --- "Yeahh let's do this, how do we achieve that?" --- "QUIT YOUR JOB AND PLAY HARDER!".

On the other hand, that social dude who has a family and only finds time to play 3 evenings a week, but uses his breaks at work to write in the forums of the large alliance he his leading, keeping people together, acquire new guilds into his alliance, organizes some great raiding events, resulting in the whole frontier zone of an enemy realm belonging to his realm for a brief period of time ... will contribute almost nothing to this system. It does not matter he pulled all that off and it does not matter that he created content for his realm mates and even for his enemies.

Also, I claim the population size is highly correlated to the RvR score ... Should a realm really be rewarded for having more players than the others? That's like rewarding rich people for simply being rich. Wouldn't that be ridiculous? Wait ... what?

Suggested Improvement: Absolute Score
Instead of a relative score system, bonuses should be unlocked upon achieving certain things in the scope of one extended gaming session --- independent from the fact that the enemy realms may achieve them, too. That would be an absolute score system.

One very simple system would be to look at the maximum number of keeps your realm held claimed at some point of time during the past X days.

If the maximum number of keeps your realm managed to hold in the past X days is something ordinary like 9 or lower, no bonus would be granted. Every number above that would result in a larger bonus that lasts for X days. Raiding and holding all 27 keeps, even for just a brief duration of time, is a massive challenge that can't be done without grand efforts. Hence, the realm boni would be massive in that case.

In order to prevent exploits, require a minimum population of X online players for the achievement to be counted.

That way, a strong alliance with some good leaders and clever strategists could actually make a difference. Being the realm with the most players certaintly helps, but having a few groups who play well together could clearly outsmart bigger numbers. Rewards would be granted based on real collaborative achievements, not anti-social non-stop gaming.

You could even add adversarial rewards: increase the keeptaking reward for keeps that belong to a dominating realm. Hence, the more keeps Albion has, the larger the direct reward for taking an Albion keep should be. As soon as Albion tries to capture the last remaining enemy keep in the world, say, Dun Lamfhota, the reward to counter-raid any keep from Albion would be so large that there is a strong incentive to do so. This would render actually holding 27 keeps even for a second an epic achievement that won't occur very often. And if it does, people who participated would actually be proud and remember the names of their leaders and the alliances involved for a long time.
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