Changes to Field RAs (TWF, NM, ST)

Started 22 Jul 2019
by gruenesschaf
in Planned Changes
Pending some feedback these changes are planned for sometime later this week, it affects all RAs that constantly tick with a field like Thornweed Field, Negative Maelstrom and Static Tempest:

1) Targets can only be hit when they have LoS to the ground target (or original target position in case of ST)
This would make the outside of towers a safe area if a field ra is placed inside, same for the roof area if it's placed at the lord.

2) Targets can only be hit when the caster is alive and has LoS to the ground target (or original target position in case of ST)
This would prevent suicide runs to place field ras.

Feedback is especially welcome regarding change #2
Mon 22 Jul 2019 5:38 PM by Enyore
Its an interesting way of solving this issue - not sure about #2 but its a welcomed change anyway.

Too many has gotten waaaay to many RPs off of TWF that they did not deserve.
Mon 22 Jul 2019 6:02 PM by Hejjin
gruenesschaf wrote:
Mon 22 Jul 2019 4:59 PM
Pending some feedback these changes are planned for sometime later this week, it affects all RAs that constantly tick with a field like Thornweed Field, Negative Maelstrom and Static Tempest:

1) Targets can only be hit when they have LoS to the ground target (or original target position in case of ST)
This would make the outside of towers a safe area if a field ra is placed inside, same for the roof area if it's placed at the lord.
That would also mean certain places on the same floor as the TWF could not be covered, in particular the floor where the commander is in Albion keeps as there is a wall immediately before the stairwell leading down. So not only are you limiting TWF to one floor, you are limiting it to a very small area.

gruenesschaf wrote:
Mon 22 Jul 2019 4:59 PM
2) Targets can only be hit when the caster is alive and has LoS to the ground target (or original target position in case of ST)
This would prevent suicide runs to place field ras.

Feedback is especially welcome regarding change #2
I have no problems with item 2.
Mon 22 Jul 2019 6:09 PM by Toss
good idea. TWF is a real pain in keep taking. Since Mids seem to have most with all BD's and Hibs least with noone wanting to play Warden.

May i suggest nerf the Height of the spells instead? to pretty much only affect 1 floor anyhow. Like the previous nerf just even more.
Lets say a total dmg area of 100 units up/down in total.
I never experienced Thru walls being a problem, more like Someone standing on roof and throwing TWF on Lord and it effects the whole tower kinda
Mon 22 Jul 2019 6:14 PM by Druth
I think change 2 would solve most problems.
Mon 22 Jul 2019 6:15 PM by ExcretusMaximus
Yet another change which forgoes strategy and encourages mindless zerging.

I wish I had known you guys were disciples of Mark Jacobs' "this game is all about zerg warfare, fuck the rest' mindset before coming here.
Mon 22 Jul 2019 6:18 PM by keen
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Mon 22 Jul 2019 6:15 PM
Yet another change which forgoes strategy and encourages mindless zerging.

I wish I had known you guys were disciples of Mark Jacobs' "this game is all about zerg warfare, fuck the rest' mindset before coming here.
you need strategy now, before it was open gate-> rush in-> hit twf button-> win
good change
Mon 22 Jul 2019 6:27 PM by Hejjin
Toss wrote:
Mon 22 Jul 2019 6:09 PM
snip...

May i suggest nerf the Height of the spells instead? to pretty much only affect 1 floor anyhow. Like the previous nerf just even more.
snip...
If a person requires LoS to the groundtarget to be damaged, being on a separate floor would break that LoS.
Mon 22 Jul 2019 6:29 PM by falcon
No interest anymore for TWF, its a joke ? ^^ in one word to works caster need to stay on target alive to do less damage than ice wizard and only in 20cm2 :p

Didnt know few whinning (today twf kill only 5 peoples (stupid) in zerg...) enough to modify totally the game mechanics, paladin know now what to do for be listened ^^

If you want to kill any defense keep/tower do it ^^ need holidays (and target rank reached) thx :p

F.
Mon 22 Jul 2019 6:41 PM by Hejjin
Druth wrote:
Mon 22 Jul 2019 6:14 PM
I think change 2 would solve most problems.
I agree, especially for NM and TWF, with change 2 in place I don't believe there would be a need for any other change. The strategy for those on the receiving end of the TWF/NM would be to immediately switch targets and focus on the caster of said field RA. The combination of changes 1 & 2 is simply too much.
Mon 22 Jul 2019 6:54 PM by Wooshh
Before giving a feedback i ask: with these changes twf will become instant cast or still 2 seconds?
And his ra cost? Still 30?? Think about this too
Mon 22 Jul 2019 7:03 PM by Wooshh
And classes who based their appeal on those ras?
Example: Bd ok is already op. Reaver? Warden, i personally find a solid class but if i remember on phoenix it is not considered and doesnt find grp easily. They will get some love?
Mon 22 Jul 2019 7:14 PM by Toss
Hejjin wrote:
Mon 22 Jul 2019 6:27 PM
Toss wrote:
Mon 22 Jul 2019 6:09 PM
snip...

May i suggest nerf the Height of the spells instead? to pretty much only affect 1 floor anyhow. Like the previous nerf just even more.
snip...
If a person requires LoS to the groundtarget to be damaged, being on a separate floor would break that LoS.

Yes but LOS is very easy to exploit. Like standing behind a pillar in lordroom, Exiting thru balcony if ure defending. or just hide behind stair railings... I fear that TWF will be nerfed to totally uselessness if you LOS require it
Mon 22 Jul 2019 7:21 PM by Hejjin
Toss wrote:
Mon 22 Jul 2019 7:14 PM
Hejjin wrote:
Mon 22 Jul 2019 6:27 PM
Toss wrote:
Mon 22 Jul 2019 6:09 PM
snip...

May i suggest nerf the Height of the spells instead? to pretty much only affect 1 floor anyhow. Like the previous nerf just even more.
snip...
If a person requires LoS to the groundtarget to be damaged, being on a separate floor would break that LoS.

Yes but LOS is very easy to exploit. Like standing behind a pillar in lordroom, Exiting thru balcony if ure defending. or just hide behind stair railings... I fear that TWF will be nerfed to totally uselessness if you LOS require it
My bad, I missed the "instead" in your original post. I know, I logged my Reaver in and tested dropping it in Lord Room to see where I could hide out of LoS.
Mon 22 Jul 2019 7:44 PM by Svekt
Lets just re-write daoc into a new game.... we will call it phoenix

Twf is fine as it is, its the players that need to do better avoiding the effects of twf. I rarely die to a twf unless im on a brand new 50 that isn't templated or if I'm solo and just zerg-surfing to complete tasks.

You should not change the mechanics of how it works, if anything lower the damage again. It should still be effective as an interrupt. Doing option 1 or option 2 changes the classes and their desirability. I am not a twf using class, find myself in twf all the time but im not here complaining because I actually have an understanding of the game.

Twf is only a problem now because people have, over the years, discovered how powerful any AOE spell is in keep or zerg warefare. While these classes were rarely used before, they are used more often here on phoenix.

I don't see a need for any nerf to this ability in any realm. What I see the need for is for devs to stop listening to people who only complain. Those people should invest the same effort they put into crying into finding better teammates or better strategies and tactics. Its seems to be repetitious that we keep dumbing down the game for people and making it too easy. This completely strips daoc of the draw that it has to begin with.
Mon 22 Jul 2019 8:14 PM by Anelyn77
Either of the changes are good IMHO (both might be a bit too much and pretty much transform TWF into another rank 1 RA like ST is, good enough for points to rupt and give your team momentum, but not worth going all the way up).

It's a bit like same for most active RA's where past rank 1 you sink a ton of points for little return (Except current TWF / NM of course).

/Bnotashamed + Aicha + Whipfairy
Mon 22 Jul 2019 8:27 PM by Boltman
I believe that TWF should be line of sight to GT to cast, but from that point on should be fire and forget.

I also believe though that it should have a height limitation of say 50 units. I know this can cause issues open field with rolling hills, but with it set up this way you could stand in the doorway on the roof, drop it down a level on the lords room and only hit players on that level.

And I dont know if it is possible, but just remove the ability to raise elevation on a ground target. If you are above a ground target then you can see/use it but it seems all of the bugs you are trying to fix comes from elevation.

My 2 coppers anyway !
Mon 22 Jul 2019 8:29 PM by Slap
TY!!! I like both changes listed. No more i-win buttons for tower/keep attackers.

To everyone complaining, this changes nothing but now defense will be able to have somewhat of a standoff instead of being rolled in 1 minute or less. Also, no more stunbot-like RP farming.

+1
Mon 22 Jul 2019 8:37 PM by Svekt
not to mention, if you implement twf nm etc from not pulsing anymore after the caster dies, this would be a huge smack to anyone who has died to animist shrooms after the player who casted them has died.... I just don't see how you can address FnF casts without addressing them all.....

what happens the first time someone burns twf on a retreating enemy only to drop the GT in a slight dip in elevation and lose all effects of a 30 pt ability for 10 mins because of glitchy los...
Mon 22 Jul 2019 9:12 PM by Wooshh
Svekt wrote:
Mon 22 Jul 2019 8:37 PM
what happens the first time someone burns twf on a retreating enemy only to drop the GT in a slight dip in elevation and lose all effects of a 30 pt ability for 10 mins because of glitchy los...

a hill can waste 30 pts of ra, can use them only in water lol
Mon 22 Jul 2019 9:31 PM by florin
1 but not 2 please.
Mon 22 Jul 2019 10:51 PM by Soukou
Pbaoe went through doors and walls. Was balanced to make it fair to all.

Imo this balances twf/st/nm to make it fair to all.

When playing a caster in a keep d on hib once the doors down bend over and kiss you ass goodbye. Few days ago guild grp took a tower and no BS had 5 twf's on us.

All for BOTH changes. They had it far too good for far too long. The RP damage has already been done.
Mon 22 Jul 2019 11:38 PM by Jingo NZ
Option 1 is good. Or alternatively a tighter z axis restriction would be a similar change. Option 2 not needed.
Mon 22 Jul 2019 11:43 PM by Vlas
If others stop the mindless following into a tower they can avoid these aoe's, why punish those that use these because healers are afk or players don't pay attention
They LOS will not work because to many LOS issues on open warfare please rethink this a little harder
Don't keep killing the game off a piece at a time
what about shrooms killing us after its owner is killed and released this still happens
While your at it how about mez and stun being cut when the caster of these has no LOS or is dead? Also disease and other such abilities?
Tue 23 Jul 2019 5:57 AM by Druth
Vlas wrote:
Mon 22 Jul 2019 11:43 PM
If others stop the mindless following into a tower they can avoid these aoe's, why punish those that use these because healers are afk or players don't pay attention

Why is it not mindless to rush in, without any thought of your own safety, to drop a GT and an un-interrupt able spell and still "win"?
Tue 23 Jul 2019 6:16 AM by inoeth
OMG these ras are completely useless now...
i dont get why ppl complaining about this, these ras haven been in the game since forever and ppl had to deal with it... if you get hit by it, move out of the area... what is so difficult about it?
Tue 23 Jul 2019 6:26 AM by Leandrys
Very good thing, ty so much, RvR will now start to rely more on classe's skillsets and these RA's will have to be combined to real strategy to work, god, thank you Phoenix, it did hurt the server a lot, wish this would have happened earlier, but better late than never.
Tue 23 Jul 2019 7:05 AM by Druth
inoeth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 6:16 AM
OMG these ras are completely useless now...
i dont get why ppl complaining about this, these ras haven been in the game since forever and ppl had to deal with it... if you get hit by it, move out of the area... what is so difficult about it?

I think people complained because the RA's (especially twf) required very little skill to use, and required a lot more skill from opponent to "counter", and by counter I mean running away.
My BD had some fun with it, and even at lvl 4 it wrecks BG's.
Tue 23 Jul 2019 7:51 AM by Ceen
Zergs gonna start dodging again, call me a prophet.
Tue 23 Jul 2019 7:55 AM by inoeth
Druth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 7:05 AM
inoeth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 6:16 AM
OMG these ras are completely useless now...
i dont get why ppl complaining about this, these ras haven been in the game since forever and ppl had to deal with it... if you get hit by it, move out of the area... what is so difficult about it?

I think people complained because the RA's (especially twf) required very little skill to use, and required a lot more skill from opponent to "counter", and by counter I mean running away.
My BD had some fun with it, and even at lvl 4 it wrecks BG's.

imo those guys do not deserve better.... how can one think its a good idea to run into twf and malestrom and expect to not die LOL
Tue 23 Jul 2019 7:58 AM by Druth
inoeth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 7:55 AM
Druth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 7:05 AM
inoeth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 6:16 AM
OMG these ras are completely useless now...
i dont get why ppl complaining about this, these ras haven been in the game since forever and ppl had to deal with it... if you get hit by it, move out of the area... what is so difficult about it?

I think people complained because the RA's (especially twf) required very little skill to use, and required a lot more skill from opponent to "counter", and by counter I mean running away.
My BD had some fun with it, and even at lvl 4 it wrecks BG's.

imo those guys do not deserve better.... how can one think its a good idea to run into twf and malestrom and expect to not die LOL

For someone who think 600 damage+400 hp debuff means 1k of total damage, I think it's safe to say you should know not everyone is a Top Ace DaoC Pro.
Tue 23 Jul 2019 8:10 AM by Hawkaye
Much needed changes . Please also fix the necro cheez where they leave pet in a safe spot then run in with shade to cast or set assists for these RAs Pet should need los to target for cast or assist to work
Tue 23 Jul 2019 8:17 AM by Hawkaye
Vlas wrote:
Mon 22 Jul 2019 11:43 PM
If others stop the mindless following into a tower they can avoid these aoe's, why punish those that use these because healers are afk or players don't pay attention
They LOS will not work because to many LOS issues on open warfare please rethink this a little harder
Don't keep killing the game off a piece at a time
what about shrooms killing us after its owner is killed and released this still happens
While your at it how about mez and stun being cut when the caster of these has no LOS or is dead? Also disease and other such abilities?
the main issue here is not attacking a tower its defending one. Having some one run in and do a suicide drop, or have the necro cheez where the shade runs in to set gt in the lord room of a tower, locks down all caster / healer in the top 3 floors for 30 sec, there is literally no place you can avoid the twf. your healers cant heal with anything but instas casters without moc up cant cast there's literally no way to stop the attackers from pushing up into lord.
Tue 23 Jul 2019 8:18 AM by MacPrior
Svekt wrote:
Mon 22 Jul 2019 7:44 PM
Lets just re-write daoc into a new game.... we will call it phoenix

Twf is fine as it is, its the players that need to do better avoiding the effects of twf. I rarely die to a twf unless im on a brand new 50 that isn't templated or if I'm solo and just zerg-surfing to complete tasks.

You should not change the mechanics of how it works, if anything lower the damage again. It should still be effective as an interrupt. Doing option 1 or option 2 changes the classes and their desirability. I am not a twf using class, find myself in twf all the time but im not here complaining because I actually have an understanding of the game.

Twf is only a problem now because people have, over the years, discovered how powerful any AOE spell is in keep or zerg warefare. While these classes were rarely used before, they are used more often here on phoenix.

I don't see a need for any nerf to this ability in any realm. What I see the need for is for devs to stop listening to people who only complain. Those people should invest the same effort they put into crying into finding better teammates or better strategies and tactics. Its seems to be repetitious that we keep dumbing down the game for people and making it too easy. This completely strips daoc of the draw that it has to begin with.

Exactly my opinion.

What will be next step? If Midi/Hibi will run with bomb groups we will nerf the Bomb? Or AE/Instant stun?
Its a totally wrong way - to change abilities of daoc classes.
Devs should just keep improvement of QQL, and don't change the classes or the realm abilities.
Tue 23 Jul 2019 8:43 AM by Killaloth
Wooshh wrote:
Mon 22 Jul 2019 9:12 PM
Svekt wrote:
Mon 22 Jul 2019 8:37 PM
what happens the first time someone burns twf on a retreating enemy only to drop the GT in a slight dip in elevation and lose all effects of a 30 pt ability for 10 mins because of glitchy los...

a hill can waste 30 pts of ra, can use them only in water lol

This is a good point. Not tested yet but a good point indeed.

Change 2 is directed to "stunbot-like" (love you man ) rp farming and keeps suicidal twf runs for easy rps.

If change 2 can be implemented to only need los when inside keeps/towers we should make everyone happy.

Whoever complains should say why, so far we've seen that it's very easy to drop it in keepfights for easy rps and very hard to counter it.

Also remember that you won't lose the RPs spent for TWF, your master trainer would be happy to swap them for other RAs
Tue 23 Jul 2019 8:49 AM by inoeth
Druth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 7:58 AM
inoeth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 7:55 AM
Druth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 7:05 AM
I think people complained because the RA's (especially twf) required very little skill to use, and required a lot more skill from opponent to "counter", and by counter I mean running away.
My BD had some fun with it, and even at lvl 4 it wrecks BG's.

imo those guys do not deserve better.... how can one think its a good idea to run into twf and malestrom and expect to not die LOL

For someone who think 600 damage+400 hp debuff means 1k of total damage, I think it's safe to say you should know not everyone is a Top Ace DaoC Pro.

nice ad hominem bro. but what has deeper daoc mechanic (which is different from shard to shard) to do with the obvious fact that you do not run into a dmg field that also has a very clear animation? right, nothing. so why do you try to attack me here?
Tue 23 Jul 2019 10:19 AM by Druth
inoeth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 8:49 AM
Druth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 7:58 AM
inoeth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 7:55 AM
imo those guys do not deserve better.... how can one think its a good idea to run into twf and malestrom and expect to not die LOL

For someone who think 600 damage+400 hp debuff means 1k of total damage, I think it's safe to say you should know not everyone is a Top Ace DaoC Pro.

nice ad hominem bro. but what has deeper daoc mechanic (which is different from shard to shard) to do with the obvious fact that you do not run into a dmg field that also has a very clear animation? right, nothing. so why do you try to attack me here?

If you can't see the irony of writing: "imo those guys do not deserve better.... " when you yourself doesn't understand basics of the game (which is the same Uthgard, Live and Phoenix), about an ability which is not the same on Live and Uthgard, as it currently is on Phoenix, then I am so very sorry.
Tue 23 Jul 2019 10:31 AM by CronU
inoeth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 8:49 AM
but what has deeper daoc mechanic (which is different from shard to shard) to do with the obvious fact that you do not run into a dmg field that also has a very clear animation? right, nothing. so why do you try to attack me here?

it's obvious that you are talking about open field fights, while the rest is talkin about TOWER specific fights.
In a Tower with 4 layers, while 3 are completely covered with 1 single twf, just leaving the complete bottom one or the outer corners of the balcony (where also enemy offtanks can wait for you to get out of the door) open for free casting, how excactly you advise people to 'dodge' this RA?

IMO Point 1 is totally fine, Point 2.1 with the death is fine as well, but 2.2 the caster shouldn't have to be in LOS all the time.

At the current state defending a tower against a 'zerg' is completly useless and just a suicide command.
Tue 23 Jul 2019 11:06 AM by inoeth
CronU wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 10:31 AM
inoeth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 8:49 AM
but what has deeper daoc mechanic (which is different from shard to shard) to do with the obvious fact that you do not run into a dmg field that also has a very clear animation? right, nothing. so why do you try to attack me here?

it's obvious that you are talking about open field fights, while the rest is talkin about TOWER specific fights.
In a Tower with 4 layers, while 3 are completely covered with 1 single twf, just leaving the complete bottom one or the outer corners of the balcony (where also enemy offtanks can wait for you to get out of the door) open for free casting, how excactly you advise people to 'dodge' this RA?

IMO Point 1 is totally fine, Point 2.1 with the death is fine as well, but 2.2 the caster shouldn't have to be in LOS all the time.

At the current state defending a tower against a 'zerg' is completly useless and just a suicide command.

get out of the stupid tower? just let them waste their RAs then come back, thats how you deal with that^^
Tue 23 Jul 2019 11:18 AM by inoeth
Druth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 10:19 AM
inoeth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 8:49 AM
Druth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 7:58 AM
For someone who think 600 damage+400 hp debuff means 1k of total damage, I think it's safe to say you should know not everyone is a Top Ace DaoC Pro.

nice ad hominem bro. but what has deeper daoc mechanic (which is different from shard to shard) to do with the obvious fact that you do not run into a dmg field that also has a very clear animation? right, nothing. so why do you try to attack me here?

If you can't see the irony of writing: "imo those guys do not deserve better.... " when you yourself doesn't understand basics of the game (which is the same Uthgard, Live and Phoenix), about an ability which is not the same on Live and Uthgard, as it currently is on Phoenix, then I am so very sorry.

because i was wrong at one point doesnt mean i "dont understand the basics of the game" or what do you suggest how to deal with twf? if i undestand you correctly, you my point of view that leaving the area of effect is the way to counter this RA. so again why do you attack me here with stuff that has nothing to do with twf?
but well if i read ppl like you abused this RA for teh lulz, i am kind of happy that this got changed.
Tue 23 Jul 2019 11:18 AM by Hejjin
CronU wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 10:31 AM
inoeth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 8:49 AM
but what has deeper daoc mechanic (which is different from shard to shard) to do with the obvious fact that you do not run into a dmg field that also has a very clear animation? right, nothing. so why do you try to attack me here?

it's obvious that you are talking about open field fights, while the rest is talkin about TOWER specific fights.
In a Tower with 4 layers, while 3 are completely covered with 1 single twf, just leaving the complete bottom one or the outer corners of the balcony (where also enemy offtanks can wait for you to get out of the door) open for free casting, how excactly you advise people to 'dodge' this RA?

IMO Point 1 is totally fine, Point 2.1 with the death is fine as well, but 2.2 the caster shouldn't have to be in LOS all the time.

At the current state defending a tower against a 'zerg' is completly useless and just a suicide command.
Your point is accurate about the outer towers linked to each keep, but not to the main keep tower.
Tue 23 Jul 2019 11:34 AM by xeet16
As a player who uses TWF and NM: I'm happy for these changes. I even hope #2 goes live. Without the second change, the only thing that would change with TWF is that I can't run to safety after I cast it. Big woop. Most of the people who use TWF to it's full extent are sitting in towers anyway on a suicide run. I think TWF was designed to be a rupt field, not a zerg killer. I think these changes knock it down a few pegs to where it belongs.
Tue 23 Jul 2019 11:44 AM by Wooshh
Nm really is breaking this game and needs nerf?
And ST lol?
Tue 23 Jul 2019 12:59 PM by Druth
inoeth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 11:18 AM
Druth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 10:19 AM
inoeth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 8:49 AM
nice ad hominem bro. but what has deeper daoc mechanic (which is different from shard to shard) to do with the obvious fact that you do not run into a dmg field that also has a very clear animation? right, nothing. so why do you try to attack me here?

If you can't see the irony of writing: "imo those guys do not deserve better.... " when you yourself doesn't understand basics of the game (which is the same Uthgard, Live and Phoenix), about an ability which is not the same on Live and Uthgard, as it currently is on Phoenix, then I am so very sorry.

because i was wrong at one point doesnt mean i "dont understand the basics of the game" or what do you suggest how to deal with twf? if i undestand you correctly, you my point of view that leaving the area of effect is the way to counter this RA. so again why do you attack me here with stuff that has nothing to do with twf?
but well if i read ppl like you abused this RA for teh lulz, i am kind of happy that this got changed.

I guess it’s a matter of humility.
I know about TWF, I know about con debuff.
I didn’t know about VW arrow block, or shroom doing low damage.
So I don’t do the “play better” routine, because I understand that our knowledge of the game varies widely.
Tue 23 Jul 2019 1:01 PM by Draginclaw
I like the following

1. The person needs to have LoS on the GT to cast the spell.
2. The spell does not go through objects (walls, floors, etc.).
3. Once the person dies, the spell should still hit others. Its already been cast and the visual is there. It's not like we're focusing/channeling the spell.
4. I would make them instant cast instead of 2 seconds with these changes. Or possibly increase damage to compensate. I think these would be really easy to avoid now...especially NM and ST.
5. Give everyone who has these skills currently a free RA respec.

With these changes I still think most people would spec out of them. I know I would switch out of NM5 to MoC.
Tue 23 Jul 2019 1:13 PM by Cider
I would suggest just implementing #1 and then seeing how it goes. Then implement #2 if needed later.
Tue 23 Jul 2019 1:29 PM by Sepplord
imo it feels like hitting a small pin with a construction hammer...

similar to the ani-nerf it seems like an issue that was tried a few times to be fixed properly and then when issues kept arising/existing someone says: that's it i am done with carefully fixing this, and people still abusing it/finding ways/crying like they always do/etc... i am going to nerf this shit into oblivion and this time it will not create the same QQ as all other times

It is mulitple nerfs combined into a situation where it probably won't be of much use at all anymore. Instead of limiting it to one floor, it is limited to LOS. LOS from caster to GT AND LOS to target AND the caster has to be alive AND the caster must uphold LOS etc...
Tue 23 Jul 2019 1:37 PM by Druth
Sepplord wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 1:29 PM
imo it feels like hitting a small pin with a construction hammer...

similar to the ani-nerf it seems like an issue that was tried a few times to be fixed properly and then when issues kept arising/existing someone says: that's it i am done with carefully fixing this, and people still abusing it/finding ways/crying like they always do/etc... i am going to nerf this shit into oblivion and this time it will not create the same QQ as all other times

It is mulitple nerfs combined into a situation where it probably won't be of much use at all anymore. Instead of limiting it to one floor, it is limited to LOS. LOS from caster to GT AND LOS to target AND the caster has to be alive AND the caster must uphold LOS etc...

I agree, adjustments nerfs or buffs really works best in small increments.
Have a list, do one of them, wait a week, do another if needed. Untill you get wanted effect.
Tue 23 Jul 2019 1:45 PM by Lev
why even go this complicated way?

if a RA is problematic, just remove it entirely or nerf it. and let's be honest, it's only TWF which annoys (some) people here.
why change game mechanics if there's an easier way?
Tue 23 Jul 2019 2:11 PM by Sepplord
because easy doesn't neccessarily lead to good...

but looks like they are going with easy in this regard considering the planned changes don'T change significantly
Tue 23 Jul 2019 3:21 PM by falcon
inoeth wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 6:16 AM
OMG these ras are completely useless now...
i dont get why ppl complaining about this, these ras haven been in the game since forever and ppl had to deal with it... if you get hit by it, move out of the area... what is so difficult about it?

+1 Few stupid people decide now of the futur of the game sad...

"I'm alone and have 1200 hit point, and I WANT to hit lord with my friends !!!"

Few months ago my TWF kill about 10 people each time, now 75% found they are a brain and I kill 2-3 now , still too much ? :p not sure whinning earn something, my other character usually kill 100 in siege keep :p

Tower not interesting in defend anymore, now zerg will spend their time to hit empty doors, and x10 RP will be earn in defense keep, sad... (50-75% of interest of NF gone without tower defense) (no I will not give free RP staying at lord without doing any damage ^^)

F.
Tue 23 Jul 2019 3:30 PM by falcon
Sepplord wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 1:29 PM
imo it feels like hitting a small pin with a construction hammer...

similar to the ani-nerf it seems like an issue that was tried a few times to be fixed properly and then when issues kept arising/existing someone says: that's it i am done with carefully fixing this, and people still abusing it/finding ways/crying like they always do/etc... i am going to nerf this shit into oblivion and this time it will not create the same QQ as all other times

It is mulitple nerfs combined into a situation where it probably won't be of much use at all anymore. Instead of limiting it to one floor, it is limited to LOS. LOS from caster to GT AND LOS to target AND the caster has to be alive AND the caster must uphold LOS etc...

+1 not only a small nerf, its just an eradication, dev have only one small thing to modify the spell if too powerfull (not agree, only alone people without heal or potion dead in twf about 2% of the zerg), reduce high of the effect as they do in past (remember twf done 1st stage in DC kill everyone at lord lol ^^)
Tue 23 Jul 2019 5:34 PM by Svekt
Please do not entirely rewrite RAs after they have been allowed to function as is for the last 6months + except for minor changes to damage amounts.

Here is the bottom line: TWF 4-5 kills people who don't run clerics/healers/druids, or people who blindly push when a tower drops knowing full well a twf is inc and waiting for them along with the assortment of ST aoe damage i.e. concentrated damage at the choke.

1) If you change it so that people have to have LOS to the ground target or origin of the twf but do not reduce damage on it, twf 4-5 is still going to kill all these people. Zergs and players will adapt to the point where they full push as one to mass interrupt while the TWF users follow them in and drop it. Will it be as often, maybe not, but every change devs put in... The creative part of the community finds the work around. People will just spread the twf out and you will have nowhere to run regardless. The damage in combination with players not knowing how to counter it is what’s killing them.

2) If you stop the effects after death this is just silly imo. Shrooms still hit players after the animist has died so even if you kill the animist his/her tanglers are still going to do full damage/snares. Sometimes it’s important for a player to sacrifice themselves for their realm to buy an advantage. I.E. people create diversions and strategies to create an edge for their team; sometimes it’s just an aggressive player pushing to the back to get the support on the move only to be burned but a caster train. However in that process he unplanted the supports feet and allowed his/her team to bring down a critical part of the enemy squad because the healers weren't healing through the damage. Removing this aspect from the game is removing tactics and strategy.

Keep the mechanics of twf in play; just reduce the height axis so people quit complaining about the whole tower being "covered" by twf. Personally, I still see no problem with the TWF as it stands now. Players that get themselves killed and then complain are why things keep changing. The biggest part of playing this game and winning is choosing to engage on your terms. IF YOU KNOW A TWF IS COMING or is EMINENT and you push anyway, that is your own darn fault lol.

There are literally so many survival options, too many to mention, but it starts with build and strategy.
Build to survive
Move out of the twf
group insta heals
bedaz aura / soldiers barricade for mitigation
DI
MOC
VR
AM
quickcast + mezz on the enemy push so you can leave the twf
On twf deployment, jump off the oil and counter push the support on the bottom.
You can even IP/legion heal/ heal pot while exiting twf.

I mean there are literally so many ways to handle this...

But if you're going to change it, and change it as you've listed, then you also need to stop GTAOE affecting multiple levels above and below the ground targets, animist’s pets firing after the caster dies etc. etc.

Or you know, just leave everything working as intended =P
Tue 23 Jul 2019 5:57 PM by Dunar
Regarding #2: Why not keep the possibility to have someone else in the group have / to have LoS and need to stay alive? At least would significantly increase the strategic options....
Tue 23 Jul 2019 5:57 PM by Druth
Svekt wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 5:34 PM
Or you know, just leave everything working as intended =P

What does that mean? serious, what do people mean by this when they keep using this phrase?
Tue 23 Jul 2019 6:05 PM by Roto23
How about remove the interrupt part of TWF?
Tue 23 Jul 2019 6:07 PM by relvinian
1. The change won't make twf less effective in groups. You can still use say 4 wardens and a bard and sos inside a tower then throw multiple twfs.
2. The change completely nerfs solo twf users. Throw twf, people run out of los, dmg stops, you die, damage stops.
3. Change number 2 will prevent solo twf users but guess what, so would sending one scout into the tower.
4. If change 1 goes in i guess i could live with it. If change 2 goes in, i want to make a new toon. But what can i make after you nerfed animist to death and now warden?
5. What is the next class to be nerfed into complete oblivion?
Tue 23 Jul 2019 7:05 PM by teiloh
I believe #2 is too much, especially all at once. Damage RAs are supposed to yield their full value once they're fired. It also has a lot of balance implications favoring larger groups and certain classes.
Tue 23 Jul 2019 7:36 PM by Tool73
TWF is nerfed enough now, start your focus on vanish now....
Tue 23 Jul 2019 8:09 PM by MacPrior
A smart way of modern developer is - make love no war... I mean, no nerf.

Each time the dev team nerfs one of classes there are lot of people who becomes disappointed and are forced to run other class or even leaving the game. Only a part of them finding them self in new tactics and role for the class.
Each time anything gets love, will be improved, the game becomes effect of satisfaction and more interesting people - oh, I will try this class or this game or a kind of new strategies.

So, make love, not nerf - improve pots, heal items, reduce reuse timer but don't change general class and ability mechanics and never nerf!

TWF is dangerous. but so is RvR generally. The only problem I see with this ability - it has to be two-dimensional only, without effect on other floors.

TWF is mighty, but it kills manly the people who doesn't care about inviting healer classes in group, who don`t care to pick up somewhere a healer, if he is not with group.
There are lot of groups inviting additional dps instead of heal class if running with zerg.
Even normal usage of draughts and heal items/RAs prevents wipe due to TWF - lot of ppl dont care about having enough pots, don't buying different pots, don't care enough for survival RAs.

And lot of ppl still whine about TWF just running semi afk. Lot of situations requires your immediate reaction - debuff, damage, inc, so TWF too. Just be more active and present even if you are with zerg. And all is good also with TWF in current form.

And please, make love, no war! I mean - work for satisfaction and enthusiasm and don't waste the time with ever-whiners, they will always find the ground to whine, also after TWF nerf. They just have to learn - this is the current game mechanics, learn to deal with.
Tue 23 Jul 2019 9:18 PM by Vkejai
Svekt wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 5:34 PM
Please do not entirely rewrite RAs after they have been allowed to function as is for the last 6months + except for minor changes to damage amounts.

Here is the bottom line: TWF 4-5 kills people who don't run clerics/healers/druids, or people who blindly push when a tower drops knowing full well a twf is inc and waiting for them along with the assortment of ST aoe damage i.e. concentrated damage at the choke.

1) If you change it so that people have to have LOS to the ground target or origin of the twf but do not reduce damage on it, twf 4-5 is still going to kill all these people. Zergs and players will adapt to the point where they full push as one to mass interrupt while the TWF users follow them in and drop it. Will it be as often, maybe not, but every change devs put in... The creative part of the community finds the work around. People will just spread the twf out and you will have nowhere to run regardless. The damage in combination with players not knowing how to counter it is what’s killing them.

2) If you stop the effects after death this is just silly imo. Shrooms still hit players after the animist has died so even if you kill the animist his/her tanglers are still going to do full damage/snares. Sometimes it’s important for a player to sacrifice themselves for their realm to buy an advantage. I.E. people create diversions and strategies to create an edge for their team; sometimes it’s just an aggressive player pushing to the back to get the support on the move only to be burned but a caster train. However in that process he unplanted the supports feet and allowed his/her team to bring down a critical part of the enemy squad because the healers weren't healing through the damage. Removing this aspect from the game is removing tactics and strategy.

Keep the mechanics of twf in play; just reduce the height axis so people quit complaining about the whole tower being "covered" by twf. Personally, I still see no problem with the TWF as it stands now. Players that get themselves killed and then complain are why things keep changing. The biggest part of playing this game and winning is choosing to engage on your terms. IF YOU KNOW A TWF IS COMING or is EMINENT and you push anyway, that is your own darn fault lol.

There are literally so many survival options, too many to mention, but it starts with build and strategy.
Build to survive
Move out of the twf
group insta heals
bedaz aura / soldiers barricade for mitigation
DI
MOC
VR
AM
quickcast + mezz on the enemy push so you can leave the twf
On twf deployment, jump off the oil and counter push the support on the bottom.
You can even IP/legion heal/ heal pot while exiting twf.

I mean there are literally so many ways to handle this...

But if you're going to change it, and change it as you've listed, then you also need to stop GTAOE affecting multiple levels above and below the ground targets, animist’s pets firing after the caster dies etc. etc.

Or you know, just leave everything working as intended =P

Excellent reply.
Tue 23 Jul 2019 10:32 PM by Svekt
Vkejai wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 9:18 PM
Svekt wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 5:34 PM
Please do not entirely rewrite RAs after they have been allowed to function as is for the last 6months + except for minor changes to damage amounts.

Here is the bottom line: TWF 4-5 kills people who don't run clerics/healers/druids, or people who blindly push when a tower drops knowing full well a twf is inc and waiting for them along with the assortment of ST aoe damage i.e. concentrated damage at the choke.

1) If you change it so that people have to have LOS to the ground target or origin of the twf but do not reduce damage on it, twf 4-5 is still going to kill all these people. Zergs and players will adapt to the point where they full push as one to mass interrupt while the TWF users follow them in and drop it. Will it be as often, maybe not, but every change devs put in... The creative part of the community finds the work around. People will just spread the twf out and you will have nowhere to run regardless. The damage in combination with players not knowing how to counter it is what’s killing them.

2) If you stop the effects after death this is just silly imo. Shrooms still hit players after the animist has died so even if you kill the animist his/her tanglers are still going to do full damage/snares. Sometimes it’s important for a player to sacrifice themselves for their realm to buy an advantage. I.E. people create diversions and strategies to create an edge for their team; sometimes it’s just an aggressive player pushing to the back to get the support on the move only to be burned but a caster train. However in that process he unplanted the supports feet and allowed his/her team to bring down a critical part of the enemy squad because the healers weren't healing through the damage. Removing this aspect from the game is removing tactics and strategy.

Keep the mechanics of twf in play; just reduce the height axis so people quit complaining about the whole tower being "covered" by twf. Personally, I still see no problem with the TWF as it stands now. Players that get themselves killed and then complain are why things keep changing. The biggest part of playing this game and winning is choosing to engage on your terms. IF YOU KNOW A TWF IS COMING or is EMINENT and you push anyway, that is your own darn fault lol.

There are literally so many survival options, too many to mention, but it starts with build and strategy.
Build to survive
Move out of the twf
group insta heals
bedaz aura / soldiers barricade for mitigation
DI
MOC
VR
AM
quickcast + mezz on the enemy push so you can leave the twf
On twf deployment, jump off the oil and counter push the support on the bottom.
You can even IP/legion heal/ heal pot while exiting twf.

I mean there are literally so many ways to handle this...

But if you're going to change it, and change it as you've listed, then you also need to stop GTAOE affecting multiple levels above and below the ground targets, animist’s pets firing after the caster dies etc. etc.

Or you know, just leave everything working as intended =P

Excellent reply.

Thank you, I try to put thought and time into these. I only check the forums every so often. But this is reasonable and If players just took the time to think, which i know is rare, people wouldn't be having the number of issues that they are having with twf.
Tue 23 Jul 2019 10:34 PM by relvinian
gruenesschaf wrote:
Mon 22 Jul 2019 4:59 PM
Pending some feedback these changes are planned for sometime later this week, it affects all RAs that constantly tick with a field like Thornweed Field, Negative Maelstrom and Static Tempest:

1) Targets can only be hit when they have LoS to the ground target (or original target position in case of ST)
This would make the outside of towers a safe area if a field ra is placed inside, same for the roof area if it's placed at the lord.

2) Targets can only be hit when the caster is alive and has LoS to the ground target (or original target position in case of ST)
This would prevent suicide runs to place field ras.

Feedback is especially welcome regarding change #2

1. Just checked, number one is more than enough, it is a complete and total nerf. You throw the twf in the lord room and as soon as ur half way down the stairs you are out of los, half way up the stairs you are out of los. So it was ONE FLOOR up and TWO FLOORS down, and now it is THE FLOOR u are on.
2. Part two, is not thought out at all. TWF lasts 30 seconds, or now, about 5 when fg is beating you down. Why does twf last 30 seconds? It won't ever last that long again unless you are grouped or fighting one opponent.

Can we change the name to Cuck Weave Field?

Can I get a new lvl 50 toon rr 5 of my choice?
Tue 23 Jul 2019 11:03 PM by florin
relvinian wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 6:07 PM
1. The change won't make twf less effective in groups. You can still use say 4 wardens and a bard and sos inside a tower then throw multiple twfs.
2. The change completely nerfs solo twf users. Throw twf, people run out of los, dmg stops, you die, damage stops.
3. Change number 2 will prevent solo twf users but guess what, so would sending one scout into the tower.
4. If change 1 goes in i guess i could live with it. If change 2 goes in, i want to make a new toon. But what can i make after you nerfed animist to death and now warden?
5. What is the next class to be nerfed into complete oblivion?

It’s every class you play and complain about that gets nerfed. They use a saw for surgery. Can you try a champ, sm, or bd next or just be quiet?
Tue 23 Jul 2019 11:30 PM by MacPrior
florin wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 11:03 PM
relvinian wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 6:07 PM
1. The change won't make twf less effective in groups. You can still use say 4 wardens and a bard and sos inside a tower then throw multiple twfs.
2. The change completely nerfs solo twf users. Throw twf, people run out of los, dmg stops, you die, damage stops.
3. Change number 2 will prevent solo twf users but guess what, so would sending one scout into the tower.
4. If change 1 goes in i guess i could live with it. If change 2 goes in, i want to make a new toon. But what can i make after you nerfed animist to death and now warden?
5. What is the next class to be nerfed into complete oblivion?

It’s every class you play and complain about that gets nerfed. They use a saw for surgery. Can you try a champ, sm, or bd next or just be quiet?

I can't agree with this statement at all. DAoC is about 20 years old. Each Realm, Class, Ability was created under very careful attention to total balance of a competent team.
Each intervention in this mechanics can be dangerous for whole game.
From another side. Its not a new game. As I roll any Class, I know very good what the class can and plan the char development, macros, key binds, equipment, RAs etc. according to this knowledge. Nerfed class break the total chain.

Exactly that's why lot of people leave DAOC under Broad Sword banner, because developers changing classes as much. Planed way of character, interest on them gone lost.
Tue 23 Jul 2019 11:37 PM by florin
MacPrior wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 11:30 PM
florin wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 11:03 PM
relvinian wrote:
Tue 23 Jul 2019 6:07 PM
1. The change won't make twf less effective in groups. You can still use say 4 wardens and a bard and sos inside a tower then throw multiple twfs.
2. The change completely nerfs solo twf users. Throw twf, people run out of los, dmg stops, you die, damage stops.
3. Change number 2 will prevent solo twf users but guess what, so would sending one scout into the tower.
4. If change 1 goes in i guess i could live with it. If change 2 goes in, i want to make a new toon. But what can i make after you nerfed animist to death and now warden?
5. What is the next class to be nerfed into complete oblivion?

It’s every class you play and complain about that gets nerfed. They use a saw for surgery. Can you try a champ, sm, or bd next or just be quiet?

I can't agree with this statement at all. DAoC is about 20 years old. Each Realm, Class, Ability was created under very careful attention to total balance of a competent team.
Each intervention in this mechanics can be dangerous for whole game.
From another side. Its not a new game. As I roll any Class, I know very good what the class can and plan the char development, macros, key binds, equipment, RAs etc. according to this knowledge. Nerfed class break the total chain.

Exactly that's why lot of people leave DAOC under Broad Sword banner, because developers changing classes as much. Planed way of character, interest on them gone lost.

I think you responded to the wrong person. But I will challenge your assertion that it was done by a competent team. They did a lot of things right but many things they failed on. This and other freeshards are a testimony to it. People think they can take the essence, add balance, add qol, and content and make it better. But that balance is contentious. Very difficult to please all if possible at all. There is no point in DAOC where all was balanced and all happy. Atleast that I can recall.
Wed 24 Jul 2019 12:53 AM by gruenesschaf
MacPrior wrote: I can't agree with this statement at all. DAoC is about 20 years old. Each Realm, Class, Ability was created under very careful attention to total balance of a competent team.
Each intervention in this mechanics can be dangerous for whole game.
From another side. Its not a new game. As I roll any Class, I know very good what the class can and plan the char development, macros, key binds, equipment, RAs etc. according to this knowledge. Nerfed class break the total chain.

Exactly that's why lot of people leave DAOC under Broad Sword banner, because developers changing classes as much. Planed way of character, interest on them gone lost.

The problem with that is that daoc, like every mmo ever, is a moving target. While the game and even some mechanics are 20 years old, many other things are not. Sure you can just arbitrarily say everything after 1.87 is no longer daoc, however, playing literally any patch level ever for a prolonged amount of time will easily highlight all that is wrong with it, even if it wasn't really noticed that much on live as it just kept moving on maybe even fixing those issues later on and/or introducing new ones.

Each change represents something that someone found worth changing, meaning "they" weren't happy with whatever was the status quo. By your logic of saying a competent team that does changes under careful consideration of everything it means that every change "they" did is by definition good, however, that conflicts because every change means something they did previously was not good or something was overlooked?

That's even without taking new things into account like ToA stats or even new classes, good thing that nothing was ever completely broken on live when it was introduced, like all of the new classes were just perfect on day one, just like everything was perfectly balanced when added. Also good thing that 25% toa stats weren't a thing or the croco morph was always a sobekite and not at any point a tiny crocodile.

I really could not disagree more with the basic premise, however, even if you assume that everything live did was perfect in every way, what you have here is different situation from those under which those RAs were made: there are no RR5s, there are no ToA stats, there are lots of other abilities just not present or even entire classes but also the hp of players and ofc. player attitude / behavior as well as experience. All of those things more than justify changes to the realm abilities.
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:36 AM by cuuchulain79
grue, I think what MacPrior is getting at, is that the original patches came with more thought and analysis, as well as preserving the unique aspects of the game.

In the saga of daoc freeshards, phoenix has very well carved out a space as very heavy handed, and knee jerk with the nerfs. . .on top of 'whatever sounds good' for a 'direction.'

Maybe rather than take shots @ Mythic, think about how they never created servers full of RP-handout-hungry-zergs-full-of-soloers that struggled to deal with simple AoE DMG...?

Wait, don't do that...just nerf the issue of the moment!
Wed 24 Jul 2019 4:49 AM by ExcretusMaximus
My biggest (really, only) complain about this server is the way the developers listen to whoever cries the loudest, then swing the nerf hammer as hard as they can with what is perceived (and not just by me) little or no forethought.

Shrooms were fine for months, then a 12 page thread about them being placed on walls pops up and they get gutted.

TWF was fine for months, then an 11 page thread popped up with 40 people whining and it gets gutted.

Honestly, what's the next thing a few dozen people will cry about and ruin for the hundreds who don't post on these forums?
Wed 24 Jul 2019 5:24 AM by Druth
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 4:49 AM
My biggest (really, only) complain about this server is the way the developers listen to whoever cries the loudest, then swing the nerf hammer as hard as they can with what is perceived (and not just by me) little or no forethought.

Shrooms were fine for months, then a 12 page thread about them being placed on walls pops up and they get gutted.

TWF was fine for months, then an 11 page thread popped up with 40 people whining and it gets gutted.

Honestly, what's the next thing a few dozen people will cry about and ruin for the hundreds who don't post on these forums?

Shrooms have never been fine, through Beta to Launch, and up until the 300 range nerf (which many, myself included is to harsh), they've been abused or been buggy.
Shrooms on oil area and on inner keep, no matter how you can deal with them, is not "fine".

TWF was fine for months, because all fights took place in open field. Sieges were something you mostly did to PvE gates, and defences were very very rare, NF changed that.
Again, I agree with people here that the solution, like with shrooms, is a sledgehammer instead of tweaks. Shrooms could have been solved with 500 range, or max 300-500 elevation. TWF could be solved by forcing caster to use a healer to keep him/her up, just like people suggest targets do.
Don't want to die to TWF? Be in a group with healers.
Don't want your TWF to stop? Be in a group with healers.
Wed 24 Jul 2019 5:40 AM by gotwqqd
An RA ability should not be the defining skill of a class. It should not overshadow it’s class abilities.
It should not be why a class is picked.
Wed 24 Jul 2019 9:27 AM by keen
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 4:49 AM
My biggest (really, only) complain about this server is the way the developers listen to whoever cries the loudest, then swing the nerf hammer as hard as they can with what is perceived (and not just by me) little or no forethought.

Shrooms were fine for months, then a 12 page thread about them being placed on walls pops up and they get gutted.

TWF was fine for months, then an 11 page thread popped up with 40 people whining and it gets gutted.

Honestly, what's the next thing a few dozen people will cry about and ruin for the hundreds who don't post on these forums?
Both were not fine and both were good changes, it's called listening to your community. If the other side's had the better arguments and no abuse ig were observable this would have not been changed. They follow the discussion, observe in-game stats, read the arguments and make up their minds to come to a conclusion. This sounds very reasonable to be.
Wed 24 Jul 2019 12:00 PM by Sepplord
keen wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 9:27 AM
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 4:49 AM
My biggest (really, only) complain about this server is the way the developers listen to whoever cries the loudest, then swing the nerf hammer as hard as they can with what is perceived (and not just by me) little or no forethought.

Shrooms were fine for months, then a 12 page thread about them being placed on walls pops up and they get gutted.

TWF was fine for months, then an 11 page thread popped up with 40 people whining and it gets gutted.

Honestly, what's the next thing a few dozen people will cry about and ruin for the hundreds who don't post on these forums?
Both were not fine and both were good changes, it's called listening to your community. If the other side's had the better arguments and no abuse ig were observable this would have not been changed. They follow the discussion, observe in-game stats, read the arguments and make up their minds to come to a conclusion. This sounds very reasonable to be.

you mean like the almost 100pages about archery and the many players "abusing" the issue by not speccing high (or not at all) archery on their archerclasses?
and the only results have been indirect&direct buffs to melee-archers?


come on...i aggree that they are doing a great job overall, and i can understand changes even if they don't fit myself. The Ani-nerf wasn't a well thought out solution and neither is the TWF change in it'S whole. Both heavily indicate a "this topic is annoying lets make it stop"-mentality in the sledgehammery approach of applying changes.
Wed 24 Jul 2019 12:04 PM by Strikejk
Terrible changes.

Top 10 points that come to mind.

1. Zergs are already the go-to way to fight on this server, the bigger the better. This is because there are no proper methods in place to give zergs diminishing returns of effectivness.
2. You also try to help people to do more 8v8 fights yet you want to constantly nerf every single anti-zerg mechanic which is counter productive to your 8v8 goal.
3. You nerf all anti-zerg mechanics which small good organised groups use to combat giant not properly leaded zergs. This nerf will further spiral the "bigger = better" zerg mentally out of control.
4. You further nerf the ability for good organised groups to do anything in this game. Why should they even bother anymore? Just invite more people and mindless zerg now.
5. There is no proper reason given (or I can think of myself) that justifies this nerf.
Where is the reason?
Who do you want to help with this change?
Who are you really helping with this change?
Think about it!
6. These RA's already kill nobody who has heal or control keys on his keyboard. You have 30s to move out of it. With this change it's a literal joke.
7. Making these RA's useless should give free respecs to everyone specced into this RA.
8. Making these RA's useless should give any character that utilize these RA's free RP transfers to a different character of their choice because they don't want to play a character who is basically useless now.
9. Please stop listening to players without healers that are below RR3 who run with a 300 man zerg and then whine when they die. This is not DAoC. Mindless zerging with terrible group setups should not be the norm that everything is balanced around.
10. I'm shocked that I even have to write these obvious points to give feedback to an obviously bad decision.

Welcome to ZoC! Zergs of Camelot the new ultimative game. We only like zergs and if you dare to have any mechanic against them we will nerf it to the ground. Also 3370 range volley is fine and needs no nerf.
Wed 24 Jul 2019 12:27 PM by relvinian
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 12:53 AM
MacPrior wrote: I can't agree with this statement at all. DAoC is about 20 years old. Each Realm, Class, Ability was created under very careful attention to total balance of a competent team.
Each intervention in this mechanics can be dangerous for whole game.
From another side. Its not a new game. As I roll any Class, I know very good what the class can and plan the char development, macros, key binds, equipment, RAs etc. according to this knowledge. Nerfed class break the total chain.

Exactly that's why lot of people leave DAOC under Broad Sword banner, because developers changing classes as much. Planed way of character, interest on them gone lost.

The problem with that is that daoc, like every mmo ever, is a moving target. While the game and even some mechanics are 20 years old, many other things are not. Sure you can just arbitrarily say everything after 1.87 is no longer daoc, however, playing literally any patch level ever for a prolonged amount of time will easily highlight all that is wrong with it, even if it wasn't really noticed that much on live as it just kept moving on maybe even fixing those issues later on and/or introducing new ones.

Each change represents something that someone found worth changing, meaning "they" weren't happy with whatever was the status quo. By your logic of saying a competent team that does changes under careful consideration of everything it means that every change "they" did is by definition good, however, that conflicts because every change means something they did previously was not good or something was overlooked?

That's even without taking new things into account like ToA stats or even new classes, good thing that nothing was ever completely broken on live when it was introduced, like all of the new classes were just perfect on day one, just like everything was perfectly balanced when added. Also good thing that 25% toa stats weren't a thing or the croco morph was always a sobekite and not at any point a tiny crocodile.

I really could not disagree more with the basic premise, however, even if you assume that everything live did was perfect in every way, what you have here is different situation from those under which those RAs were made: there are no RR5s, there are no ToA stats, there are lots of other abilities just not present or even entire classes but also the hp of players and ofc. player attitude / behavior as well as experience. All of those things more than justify changes to the realm abilities.

Gruen,

What you wrote there has nothing to do with the fact that i logged in to a tower and tested line of sight and this proposed change number one is a huge nerf of the ability. Change number one is a huge nerf of the ability of say twf or maelstrom or whatever. Nerf number two is a huge nerf of the solo player's ability to counter and to fight the huge zergs who want to rush stupidly in without sending in a scout.

If you send in one scout to check a tower before you rush stupidly in, then you can stop all the dying to one person by zergs. Send in one tank with a couple healers downstairs, if there is a twf user in the tower, he throws twf and the tank runs out and people wait 30 seconds and rush up. If there are two twf users, same thing. A little common sense.

Any kind of warfare is based on deception, and being predictable gets you killed.

The only TWF situation i ever saw which was really hard to deal with was like falling down and harder using 4 reavers. Neither of your changes will prevent 4 reavers from still decimating a large group in a tower.

I checked los in towers and, as i wrote previously, it was 1 floor up and 2 floors down and now it will be the floor you drop twf on. That is a nerf. Maybe a needed one, but it is a nerf. If now dmg stops when you die, that is a nerf, maybe a needed one, i cannot fathom why it is needed, but it is still and yet, another nerf.

Suppose you do these changes to all these classes? What will you do to compensate the players for the time invested in these classes?

That animist nerf, was EXTREME. I was one of those calling for mechanics changes in where animists were placing their shrooms but I don't hate the other players and i don't want their class to be gutted. I don't want to win because their class was nerfed to oblivion. After the animist nerf did you offer a free respec? After these huge changes would you offer a free ra respec?

Why is paladin buffed on this server with lots of cool stuff, extra dmg, etc? Why is friar buffed on this server with all these custom abilities?

And then why is animist nerfed to oblivion?

People have memories. People can see what is going on. I for one do not believe the devs are bad here, I think you guys work really hard and try and make decisions based on what you think is best. BUT, you can be wrong. And would request that if you do make sweeping changes you do three things:

1. Try and maintain the original framework of the game.
2. Allow the players effected by these changes to adapt to them easier by offereing free respecs.
3. Do not gut any classes, and if this does happen, fix it. IE, and still, animist needs range adjusted up for their shrooms from 300.
Wed 24 Jul 2019 12:38 PM by Tunk
You nerf my 8l1 necro until dead and now my 8l8 reaver. Pls give me my rp back, so i can Start a new rr10 char until some bad tactiv whiner nerf this char too. Sry but slowly this game is waste of time. i am old and havnt enough time to play a new rr1 up to high rr.
And btw. maybe take a look at the Leaderboard and maybe do something against these classes? no? why? they have skill and others not. lol? sry for my very bad english. i know there are a lot of german in the staff and i really like to want to discuss in german with you about this.
Wed 24 Jul 2019 12:49 PM by gruenesschaf
relvinian wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 12:27 PM
People have memories. People can see what is going on. I for one do not believe the devs are bad here, I think you guys work really hard and try and make decisions based on what you think is best. BUT, you can be wrong. And would request that if you do make sweeping changes you do three things:

1. Try and maintain the original framework of the game.
2. Allow the players effected by these changes to adapt to them easier by offereing free respecs.
3. Do not gut any classes, and if this does happen, fix it. IE, and still, animist needs range adjusted up for their shrooms from 300.

Which original framework? The one where banshees could nuke through the 2 level bridges or the one after it was changed? The one where pbae ignores los or the one after it was changed?
I fail to see how change #1 is any different from those two. The only argument is that gtae spells ignore los, well pbae ignored los too until it didn't (which was with the release of NF on live about 15 years ago).

As for the animist nerf: play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If we could easily distinguish the cases that are fine from those that are not, such a change would not have been required, however, we cannot easily do that and so a blanked range reduction to entirely prevent the unwanted placements it is.
Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:07 PM by relvinian
Well maybe we should tone down our rhetoric. So we don't call honest animist players stupid by inference.

Does 300 range on animists prevent the issues from before? 300 range means that the animist and all his pets can be mez with one spell.

Was that how it was in the original framework?

Would 500 fix the original issue with the shroom placement? If so, then you should make it 500.

As to fix one for twf, if you do put it in, that mechanic will be different from how i remember it on daoc and also on this server for its history. Use any word you want, that is a change and a reduction shall we say in the ability. Maybe i could live with that. Fix number two is too far. Would this be playing stupid games and winning stupid prizes for twf classes? Seems too far.

AND, I sure hope if you do make some sweeping changes like this that you put in some respecs.

Hope your day is good. Hope that you take what i say as if it came from someone with a perspective for the SERVER not just my class. Hell i can make a new class, don't care. Hold my beer.
Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:12 PM by relvinian
Tunk wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 12:38 PM
You nerf my 8l1 necro until dead and now my 8l8 reaver. Pls give me my rp back, so i can Start a new rr10 char until some bad tactiv whiner nerf this char too. Sry but slowly this game is waste of time. i am old and havnt enough time to play a new rr1 up to high rr.
And btw. maybe take a look at the Leaderboard and maybe do something against these classes? no? why? they have skill and others not. lol? sry for my very bad english. i know there are a lot of german in the staff and i really like to want to discuss in german with you about this.

I had a rr 10 necro now im 7l2 warden. I feel ya,. Could you imagine loving your class and being an animist and having your range to cast shrooms reduced from 1000 to 300? Holy crap!

I had 40 days /played in my necro and 11 days on this warden. Sure a lot of afk time in there but i was logged in that long.

Players invest in this server because they love the game. i love the game. I like the competition. I like to hate the enemy realms but i don't hate the enemy players. Some of my favorite people are good enemies. I don't want anyone nerfed or to feel that their class was changed one day without any say in the matter for them.


As to the leader board. When it comes to solo kills the first 30 spots are all stealth classes with the exception of one skald. I like to run solo classes, even solo vis, and the state of solo vis is tenuous at best. This change to field RA's is a blow to solo visible classes, particularly their ability to fight duos and gankers and groups.

There are many unbeatable duos out there for solo vis classes, skald and bd, skald and healer, etc. Bard and champ. Necro and minstrel. It goes on and on. Those classes hoover up solos and their rps all day long and have the tools to run from zergs. Even some classes vs other classes are a never win situation. Necro vs warden is a no win for the warden unless twf happens somewhere. Minstrel should almost never die to a warden for example. They mez u, you better not purge it or they will kill u with the stun. Take a pet and minstrel and u can kill or run from almost anything.

But you know what? i don't want any of those classes nerfed so i can win solo. And that is the laughable thing here, the zergs are getting nerfs on solos so they can have it even more their way with these changes.
Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:23 PM by Strikejk
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 12:49 PM
relvinian wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 12:27 PM
People have memories. People can see what is going on. I for one do not believe the devs are bad here, I think you guys work really hard and try and make decisions based on what you think is best. BUT, you can be wrong. And would request that if you do make sweeping changes you do three things:

1. Try and maintain the original framework of the game.
2. Allow the players effected by these changes to adapt to them easier by offereing free respecs.
3. Do not gut any classes, and if this does happen, fix it. IE, and still, animist needs range adjusted up for their shrooms from 300.

Which original framework? The one where banshees could nuke through the 2 level bridges or the one after it was changed? The one where pbae ignores los or the one after it was changed?
I fail to see how change #1 is any different from those two. The only argument is that gtae spells ignore los, well pbae ignored los too until it didn't (which was with the release of NF on live about 15 years ago).

As for the animist nerf: play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If we could easily distinguish the cases that are fine from those that are not, such a change would not have been required, however, we cannot easily do that and so a blanked range reduction to entirely prevent the unwanted placements it is.

New changes to make this all fair:

Animist:
1. Shrooms need LoS to be placed.
2. Enemies need LoS to the shroom to take damage
3. Shrooms die when Animist dies.

Reaver:
Improved block line from later patches
Improved sidestyle (flex) from later patches
Dmg debuff doesn't break mezz anymore
Dots continuesly interrupt players
Reaver is allowed to climb
Reaver gets reduced damage from siege
Reaver gets stoicism
Reaver gets the melee 3point purge (instead of 5 points)
Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:25 PM by relvinian
Animist:
1. Shrooms need LoS to be placed.
2. Enemies need LoS to the shroom to take damage
3. Shrooms die when Animist dies.


If this goes in, i hope every single animist player deletes their account and the game.

Particularly 3.
Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:34 PM by Strikejk
relvinian wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:25 PM
Animist:
1. Shrooms need LoS to be placed.
2. Enemies need LoS to the shroom to take damage
3. Shrooms die when Animist dies.


If this goes in, i hope every single animist player deletes their account and the game.

Particularly 3.

^Good.
Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:46 PM by Hejjin
Strikejk wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:23 PM
snip...
New changes to make this all fair:

Animist:
1. Shrooms need LoS to be placed.
2. Enemies need LoS to the shroom to take damage
3. Shrooms die when Animist dies.
As much as I dislike the class, I do not believe they need or deserve any more nerfs.

Strikejk wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:23 PM
Reaver:
Improved block line from later patches
Improved sidestyle (flex) from later patches
Dmg debuff doesn't break mezz anymore
Dots continuesly interrupt players
Reaver is allowed to climb
Reaver gets reduced damage from siege
Reaver gets stoicism
Reaver gets the melee 3point purge (instead of 5 points)
Oh wow, from one extreme to the other. Your post also fails to address any compensation for Wardens...and as much as I dislike the class, to BDs.
Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:59 PM by florin
This nerf needs to happen - it's driving bad behavior with zerg leaders on Albion becoming abusive and whiny when albs engaged the enemy in open field. Case in point the other day we decimated the hibs at a DDB/GT. The leader ranted, sulked and threatened to quit because "the BG wasn't listening". In fact what the complaint really was is that his group of 4 reavers did not have a chance to bomb all the hibs while in the tower and thereby guaranteeing a good portion of the RPS for himself. Let's not incentivize this poor behavior with OP abilities. For anyone saying it's not killing anyone.(besides the non grouped)..youre either lying or delusional.

Cheerio
Wed 24 Jul 2019 2:05 PM by relvinian
Strikejk wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:34 PM
relvinian wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:25 PM
Animist:
1. Shrooms need LoS to be placed.
2. Enemies need LoS to the shroom to take damage
3. Shrooms die when Animist dies.


If this goes in, i hope every single animist player deletes their account and the game.

Particularly 3.

^Good.

Good, then we can all spend our leisure time doing more productive things.
Wed 24 Jul 2019 2:06 PM by relvinian
florin wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:59 PM
This nerf needs to happen - it's driving bad behavior with zerg leaders on Albion becoming abusive and whiny when albs engaged the enemy in open field. Case in point the other day we decimated the hibs at a DDB/GT. The leader ranted, sulked and threatened to quit because "the BG wasn't listening". In fact what the complaint really was is that his group of 4 reavers did not have a chance to bomb all the hibs while in the tower and thereby guaranteeing a good portion of the RPS for himself. Let's not incentivize this poor behavior with OP abilities. For anyone saying it's not killing anyone.(besides the non grouped)..youre either lying or delusional.

Cheerio

His four reaver group would not be nerfed in a tower if these changes go in. He could sos up and drop twfs on every level at once.

Change would have minimal effect on the outcome of that scenario. I like harder btw, even as an enemy. I like a good enemy.
Wed 24 Jul 2019 2:16 PM by florin
relvinian wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 2:06 PM
florin wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:59 PM
This nerf needs to happen - it's driving bad behavior with zerg leaders on Albion becoming abusive and whiny when albs engaged the enemy in open field. Case in point the other day we decimated the hibs at a DDB/GT. The leader ranted, sulked and threatened to quit because "the BG wasn't listening". In fact what the complaint really was is that his group of 4 reavers did not have a chance to bomb all the hibs while in the tower and thereby guaranteeing a good portion of the RPS for himself. Let's not incentivize this poor behavior with OP abilities. For anyone saying it's not killing anyone.(besides the non grouped)..youre either lying or delusional.

Cheerio

His four reaver group would not be nerfed in a tower if these changes go in. He could sos up and drop twfs on every level at once.

Change would have minimal effect on the outcome of that scenario. I like harder btw, even as an enemy. I like a good enemy.

they would be absolutely nerfed if either one of the proposed changes is implemented. No LoS from the caster or from the GT or if the caster is dead makes a big difference. The LoS change effectively reduces the TWF to one floor plus obstacles which prevent LoS.(going out to oil level floor, or hide behind pillars) Defenders have a chance to stop the TWF by killing the caster. I purposely did not name any names.
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:17 PM by relvinian
florin wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 2:16 PM
relvinian wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 2:06 PM
florin wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 1:59 PM
This nerf needs to happen - it's driving bad behavior with zerg leaders on Albion becoming abusive and whiny when albs engaged the enemy in open field. Case in point the other day we decimated the hibs at a DDB/GT. The leader ranted, sulked and threatened to quit because "the BG wasn't listening". In fact what the complaint really was is that his group of 4 reavers did not have a chance to bomb all the hibs while in the tower and thereby guaranteeing a good portion of the RPS for himself. Let's not incentivize this poor behavior with OP abilities. For anyone saying it's not killing anyone.(besides the non grouped)..youre either lying or delusional.

Cheerio

His four reaver group would not be nerfed in a tower if these changes go in. He could sos up and drop twfs on every level at once.

Change would have minimal effect on the outcome of that scenario. I like harder btw, even as an enemy. I like a good enemy.

they would be absolutely nerfed if either one of the proposed changes is implemented. No LoS from the caster or from the GT or if the caster is dead makes a big difference. The LoS change effectively reduces the TWF to one floor plus obstacles which prevent LoS.(going out to oil level floor, or hide behind pillars) Defenders have a chance to stop the TWF by killing the caster. I purposely did not name any names.

What gets nerfed next?
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:20 PM by florin
relvinian wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:17 PM
florin wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 2:16 PM
relvinian wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 2:06 PM
His four reaver group would not be nerfed in a tower if these changes go in. He could sos up and drop twfs on every level at once.

Change would have minimal effect on the outcome of that scenario. I like harder btw, even as an enemy. I like a good enemy.

they would be absolutely nerfed if either one of the proposed changes is implemented. No LoS from the caster or from the GT or if the caster is dead makes a big difference. The LoS change effectively reduces the TWF to one floor plus obstacles which prevent LoS.(going out to oil level floor, or hide behind pillars) Defenders have a chance to stop the TWF by killing the caster. I purposely did not name any names.

What gets nerfed next?

GTAOE - once you create a mentalist of course.
Volley - once you go ranger.
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:25 PM by Hejjin
florin wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:20 PM
relvinian wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:17 PM
florin wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 2:16 PM
they would be absolutely nerfed if either one of the proposed changes is implemented. No LoS from the caster or from the GT or if the caster is dead makes a big difference. The LoS change effectively reduces the TWF to one floor plus obstacles which prevent LoS.(going out to oil level floor, or hide behind pillars) Defenders have a chance to stop the TWF by killing the caster. I purposely did not name any names.

What gets nerfed next?

GTAOE - once you create a mentalist of course.
Volley - once you go ranger.
In that case, I hope Relv does not roll a VW or Champ, they are the only Hib classes that appeal to me ;-).
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:30 PM by relvinian
i will make a vw next
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:35 PM by Hejjin
relvinian wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:30 PM
i will make a vw next
I am not sure that you are that much of a masochist :-).
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:35 PM by florin
Hejjin wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:25 PM
florin wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:20 PM
relvinian wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:17 PM
What gets nerfed next?

GTAOE - once you create a mentalist of course.
Volley - once you go ranger.
In that case, I hope Relv does not roll a VW or Champ, they are the only Hib classes that appeal to me ;-).

Please yes Champs need to be knocked down a peg - but only those that know to switch to LW once they slam DDD
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:39 PM by Hejjin
florin wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:35 PM
Hejjin wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:25 PM
florin wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:20 PM
GTAOE - once you create a mentalist of course.
Volley - once you go ranger.
In that case, I hope Relv does not roll a VW or Champ, they are the only Hib classes that appeal to me ;-).

Please yes Champs need to be knocked down a peg - but only those that know to switch to LW once they slam DDD
Sorry, I can't agree, if the Champ population was much higher then it could be justified, but at the moment there are so few people/ masochists :-) willing to play the class that it is not needed, and I say this despite my poor record against them ;-).
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:50 PM by florin
Hejjin wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:39 PM
florin wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:35 PM
Hejjin wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:25 PM
In that case, I hope Relv does not roll a VW or Champ, they are the only Hib classes that appeal to me ;-).

Please yes Champs need to be knocked down a peg - but only those that know to switch to LW once they slam DDD
Sorry, I can't agree, if the Champ population was much higher then it could be justified, but at the moment there are so few people/ masochists :-) willing to play the class that it is not needed, and I say this despite my poor record against them ;-).

I was being sarcastic but tbh they are a very solid solo and duo class.. not sure why people dont play them. Would be my choice if i was a hib
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:59 PM by relvinian
Hejjin wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:35 PM
relvinian wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:30 PM
i will make a vw next
I am not sure that you are that much of a masochist :-).

Hold my beer.
Wed 24 Jul 2019 5:24 PM by gotwqqd
Sounds like the only change needed is to have some mechanic where you cast distance is

DistanceFromKeepWall+300 or 1000 whichever is less

At what distance from structure wall do you have the reduction to 300?
Wed 24 Jul 2019 5:35 PM by Hejjin
florin wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:50 PM
Hejjin wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:39 PM
florin wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 3:35 PM
Please yes Champs need to be knocked down a peg - but only those that know to switch to LW once they slam DDD
Sorry, I can't agree, if the Champ population was much higher then it could be justified, but at the moment there are so few people/ masochists :-) willing to play the class that it is not needed, and I say this despite my poor record against them ;-).

I was being sarcastic but tbh they are a very solid solo and duo class.. not sure why people dont play them. Would be my choice if i was a hib
I know ;-) I think it might be because it seems a long and lonely road until they come into their power.
Wed 24 Jul 2019 6:05 PM by Iuppiter
I like #1 (#2 is too extreme...even for suicide field RAs #1 should be sufficient), but I have some questions.
1.) When are the LoS checks done? only when it ticks or at multiple points between ticks?
2.) If the latter and you are in LoS between ticks, then out of LoS but in the field's radius when the tick happens will it affect you?

I would hope it's LoS at multiple points between ticks and still dmgs/stuns even if you've left LoS but are still in the field range...though I'm not sure what the programming challenges with that are.

Thanks!
Wed 24 Jul 2019 10:12 PM by ExcretusMaximus
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 12:49 PM
As for the animist nerf: play stupid games, win stupid prizes.


If the problem was putting shrooms on oil platforms, why not just remove the Z axis from GT? Why gut an entire class for abusing one type of placement, when you can just as easily remove the ability to put things on walls by removing the ability to raise the GT?
Wed 24 Jul 2019 11:59 PM by Leandrys
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 24 Jul 2019 12:49 PM
As for the animist nerf: play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If we could easily distinguish the cases that are fine from those that are not, such a change would not have been required, however, we cannot easily do that and so a blanked range reduction to entirely prevent the unwanted placements it is.

Except live did nerf shrooms in a much more interesting way :

Animists can't now elevate more than 300 units in the ascending vertical when in structures, no limits in descending vertical or horizontal.

It means attackers can not place shrooms in oil's room or roof/walls, but they still can defend their own keeps as usual, result is the class isn't badly nerfed with a permanent 70% nearsight whe trying to cast shrooms when defensing, but when attacking they can't abuse OP positions, = balance.

Could be a god source of inspiration for Phoenix, but otherwise, about TWF and co, these changes are good.
Thu 25 Jul 2019 3:31 AM by Nachtfee
I do not know why it has to be changed at all, clearly with LOS is understandable, but to 2 it is not necessary in my opinion. Of course it is annoying when you end up in the TWD and I know I died that way many times, but 80% of the time it was my own fault that I did not have to push and pay a little attention to that and that is true for most of the players ,
Thu 25 Jul 2019 9:50 AM by relvinian
Nachtfee wrote:
Thu 25 Jul 2019 3:31 AM
I do not know why it has to be changed at all, clearly with LOS is understandable, but to 2 it is not necessary in my opinion. Of course it is annoying when you end up in the TWD and I know I died that way many times, but 80% of the time it was my own fault that I did not have to push and pay a little attention to that and that is true for most of the players ,

When they change it, the world got safer. You can do dumb stuff and be just fine. That to me will be sad.
Thu 25 Jul 2019 2:29 PM by chryso
As for part #2, are we also going to stop DOT ticks when applied by a caster or stealther who subsequently dies? How about disease?
If not then I don't think we should do that for these effects either. I think that once a spell is cast that it runs for its full duration.
Thu 25 Jul 2019 6:38 PM by relvinian
How about leaving fields the way they are but putting a cool down period in.

1. Throw a field effect and no new field effect for 30 seconds in same area.

No need for any changes. Can still send a scout in for one twf user.

But this will slow down the 4 twf abuse groups. Cough, you know who u r.
Fri 26 Jul 2019 4:43 AM by paqdizzle
ehhh, it's a Realm Ability in which you need what?: 34 points to make it worth even having? Might as well not nerf it due to the already unbalance issues with this server, and just simply remove it imho.

If you want to fix balance just revert to old RA's.. It's out of control that you guys are getting feedback on normal functioning RA's... I asked for ST to get a nerf due to Thanes being the most OP with it capable of perma stunning their targets. But you for real nerf twf too... lol why?

Also if you're really already nerfing twf, Why haven't Shrooms got a nerf worth making people say "Hey, it's just not worth using anymore".. cause this will make people respec out of twf fast. specially reavers. No means of healing themselves other than being in a group. BD's have heal pets/a significant life tap. Wardens get twf but they can just heal/mitigate their HP easier than reaver/BD... so really this effects the Alb realm more than anything. Yet another nerf that makes alb realm feel less tempting.

If **Charge** were in the game it wouldn't be so bad, but Hibs get their group synergy with less classes needed over ANY other realm, even tho the group of mids I usually roll with don't require much but still.. We're supposed to be the melee hulk smash realm anyways. Albs on the other hand........ wow.. since beta the albion realm is lacking the tricks needed to RvR like other realms. I've played all 3 so far, and I gotta tell you.... Hibs have 3 of the main classes needed to RvR ALL in 1 class. Albs need like 2 or 3 character slots open in that group to even make up for the 1 class on hib side..

Back to the drawling board.. Might end up just making a Hib so I can CC/heal, stun nuke/cures with 1 class or just enjoy the server's balance...

Volly needs removed or fixed to where it's the Aoe 1 shot per 5 minutes version same(ish) damage, around 400-500 damage.
Since beta scouts got shafted when it comes to dealing bow damage.. in my life of playing daoc, I never played a scouts to where I felt like I should be doing more damage except here on Phoenix. Beta they were doing like 200 more damage than now. Sure they get slam and all, but wtf good is slam when the entire server population has Purge 5 lolol (not the whole server but if not all/MOST people that RvR already have it on a 5min cooldown) Change Purge to 10 or 15 minutes.. Not 5. 5 minutes also makes albs get the backlash most of all 3 realms.

Few more patches like this and more people will eventually leave this server and end up doing something else... Sure you can say "Bye, then" but it will never fix these issues. we love this server and this game so much that it's the ONLY game worth coming back to for the most polished mmo ever made(when it comes to PvP combat)

We first have to come together and realize that this server's balance is on trial. Then fix it the best ways possible for ALL 3 realms, not just 1 or 2. You gotta find the middle grounds for these types of patches or we wont have any albs to kill lol, they gonna realm hop soon.
Fri 26 Jul 2019 5:25 AM by gotwqqd
paqdizzle wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 4:43 AM
ehhh, it's a Realm Ability in which you need what?: 34 points to make it worth even having? Might as well not nerf it due to the already unbalance issues with this server, and just simply remove it imho.

If you want to fix balance just revert to old RA's.. It's out of control that you guys are getting feedback on normal functioning RA's... I asked for ST to get a nerf due to Thanes being the most OP with it capable of perma stunning their targets. But you for real nerf twf too... lol why?

Also if you're really already nerfing twf, Why haven't Shrooms got a nerf worth making people say "Hey, it's just not worth using anymore".. cause this will make people respec out of twf fast. specially reavers. No means of healing themselves other than being in a group. BD's have heal pets/a significant life tap. Wardens get twf but they can just heal/mitigate their HP easier than reaver/BD... so really this effects the Alb realm more than anything. Yet another nerf that makes alb realm feel less tempting.

If **Charge** were in the game it wouldn't be so bad, but Hibs get their group synergy with less classes needed over ANY other realm, even tho the group of mids I usually roll with don't require much but still.. We're supposed to be the melee hulk smash realm anyways. Albs on the other hand........ wow.. since beta the albion realm is lacking the tricks needed to RvR like other realms. I've played all 3 so far, and I gotta tell you.... Hibs have 3 of the main classes needed to RvR ALL in 1 class. Albs need like 2 or 3 character slots open in that group to even make up for the 1 class on hib side..

Back to the drawling board.. Might end up just making a Hib so I can CC/heal, stun nuke/cures with 1 class or just enjoy the server's balance...

Volly needs removed or fixed to where it's the Aoe 1 shot per 5 minutes version same(ish) damage, around 400-500 damage.
Since beta scouts got shafted when it comes to dealing bow damage.. in my life of playing daoc, I never played a scouts to where I felt like I should be doing more damage except here on Phoenix. Beta they were doing like 200 more damage than now. Sure they get slam and all, but wtf good is slam when the entire server population has Purge 5 lolol (not the whole server but if not all/MOST people that RvR already have it on a 5min cooldown) Change Purge to 10 or 15 minutes.. Not 5. 5 minutes also makes albs get the backlash most of all 3 realms.

Few more patches like this and more people will eventually leave this server and end up doing something else... Sure you can say "Bye, then" but it will never fix these issues. we love this server and this game so much that it's the ONLY game worth coming back to for the most polished mmo ever made(when it comes to PvP combat)

We first have to come together and realize that this server's balance is on trial. Then fix it the best ways possible for ALL 3 realms, not just 1 or 2. You gotta find the middle grounds for these types of patches or we wont have any albs to kill lol, they gonna realm hop soon.
My response would be go spend those 34 points on some other awesome RA abilities...any rebuttal affirms the ability as op
Fri 26 Jul 2019 7:55 AM by paqdizzle
gotwqqd wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 5:25 AM
paqdizzle wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 4:43 AM
ehhh, it's a Realm Ability in which you need what?: 34 points to make it worth even having? Might as well not nerf it due to the already unbalance issues with this server, and just simply remove it imho.

If you want to fix balance just revert to old RA's.. It's out of control that you guys are getting feedback on normal functioning RA's... I asked for ST to get a nerf due to Thanes being the most OP with it capable of perma stunning their targets. But you for real nerf twf too... lol why?

Also if you're really already nerfing twf, Why haven't Shrooms got a nerf worth making people say "Hey, it's just not worth using anymore".. cause this will make people respec out of twf fast. specially reavers. No means of healing themselves other than being in a group. BD's have heal pets/a significant life tap. Wardens get twf but they can just heal/mitigate their HP easier than reaver/BD... so really this effects the Alb realm more than anything. Yet another nerf that makes alb realm feel less tempting.

If **Charge** were in the game it wouldn't be so bad, but Hibs get their group synergy with less classes needed over ANY other realm, even tho the group of mids I usually roll with don't require much but still.. We're supposed to be the melee hulk smash realm anyways. Albs on the other hand........ wow.. since beta the albion realm is lacking the tricks needed to RvR like other realms. I've played all 3 so far, and I gotta tell you.... Hibs have 3 of the main classes needed to RvR ALL in 1 class. Albs need like 2 or 3 character slots open in that group to even make up for the 1 class on hib side..

Back to the drawling board.. Might end up just making a Hib so I can CC/heal, stun nuke/cures with 1 class or just enjoy the server's balance...

Volly needs removed or fixed to where it's the Aoe 1 shot per 5 minutes version same(ish) damage, around 400-500 damage.
Since beta scouts got shafted when it comes to dealing bow damage.. in my life of playing daoc, I never played a scouts to where I felt like I should be doing more damage except here on Phoenix. Beta they were doing like 200 more damage than now. Sure they get slam and all, but wtf good is slam when the entire server population has Purge 5 lolol (not the whole server but if not all/MOST people that RvR already have it on a 5min cooldown) Change Purge to 10 or 15 minutes.. Not 5. 5 minutes also makes albs get the backlash most of all 3 realms.

Few more patches like this and more people will eventually leave this server and end up doing something else... Sure you can say "Bye, then" but it will never fix these issues. we love this server and this game so much that it's the ONLY game worth coming back to for the most polished mmo ever made(when it comes to PvP combat)

We first have to come together and realize that this server's balance is on trial. Then fix it the best ways possible for ALL 3 realms, not just 1 or 2. You gotta find the middle grounds for these types of patches or we wont have any albs to kill lol, they gonna realm hop soon.
My response would be go spend those 34 points on some other awesome RA abilities...any rebuttal affirms the ability as op

uhhh... you NEED 34 for it to even be worth using in most situations. you don't do enough with twf 1,2,3,4.. not even close :/ so no.. I see what you're trying to say but it's flawed from the start. you don't see people using TWF 1 to clear rooms or mitigate casters from the fight. nor 2,3, or 4. I can sit through twf 4 without heals and still get kills in said twf :/
Fri 26 Jul 2019 8:00 AM by Leandrys
paqdizzle wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 4:43 AM
ehhh, it's a Realm Ability in which you need what?: 34 points to make it worth even having? Might as well not nerf it due to the already unbalance issues with this server, and just simply remove it imho.

If you want to fix balance just revert to old RA's.. It's out of control that you guys are getting feedback on normal functioning RA's... I asked for ST to get a nerf due to Thanes being the most OP with it capable of perma stunning their targets. But you for real nerf twf too... lol why?

Also if you're really already nerfing twf, Why haven't Shrooms got a nerf worth making people say "Hey, it's just not worth using anymore".. cause this will make people respec out of twf fast. specially reavers. No means of healing themselves other than being in a group. BD's have heal pets/a significant life tap. Wardens get twf but they can just heal/mitigate their HP easier than reaver/BD... so really this effects the Alb realm more than anything. Yet another nerf that makes alb realm feel less tempting.

If **Charge** were in the game it wouldn't be so bad, but Hibs get their group synergy with less classes needed over ANY other realm, even tho the group of mids I usually roll with don't require much but still.. We're supposed to be the melee hulk smash realm anyways. Albs on the other hand........ wow.. since beta the albion realm is lacking the tricks needed to RvR like other realms. I've played all 3 so far, and I gotta tell you.... Hibs have 3 of the main classes needed to RvR ALL in 1 class. Albs need like 2 or 3 character slots open in that group to even make up for the 1 class on hib side..

Back to the drawling board.. Might end up just making a Hib so I can CC/heal, stun nuke/cures with 1 class or just enjoy the server's balance...

Volly needs removed or fixed to where it's the Aoe 1 shot per 5 minutes version same(ish) damage, around 400-500 damage.
Since beta scouts got shafted when it comes to dealing bow damage.. in my life of playing daoc, I never played a scouts to where I felt like I should be doing more damage except here on Phoenix. Beta they were doing like 200 more damage than now. Sure they get slam and all, but wtf good is slam when the entire server population has Purge 5 lolol (not the whole server but if not all/MOST people that RvR already have it on a 5min cooldown) Change Purge to 10 or 15 minutes.. Not 5. 5 minutes also makes albs get the backlash most of all 3 realms.

Few more patches like this and more people will eventually leave this server and end up doing something else... Sure you can say "Bye, then" but it will never fix these issues. we love this server and this game so much that it's the ONLY game worth coming back to for the most polished mmo ever made(when it comes to PvP combat)

We first have to come together and realize that this server's balance is on trial. Then fix it the best ways possible for ALL 3 realms, not just 1 or 2. You gotta find the middle grounds for these types of patches or we wont have any albs to kill lol, they gonna realm hop soon.


Hahahaha, i'm sorry, but really, your post is just too funny, poor Albion, creating toons just to click on one button to fight almost every tower and keeps fights, then whines when its shiny toy gets nerfed in a really deserved way.

Well guess what, maybe if your realm didn't abuse the hell outta of TWF like fat pigs this nerf wouldn't have come, but no, you people had to create a whole bunch of reavers just to use one freaking spell and spend die just after casting it 95% of the time. "Oh, bewewew, why do you nerf our iwin button Phoenix, why, WHY CAN'T WE JUST WIN EVERY STRUCTURE'S BATTLE ???"

Oh god, your reply made me think of that sequence so much !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et0bdMeSvjE
Fri 26 Jul 2019 8:06 AM by paqdizzle
Leandrys wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 8:00 AM
paqdizzle wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 4:43 AM
ehhh, it's a Realm Ability in which you need what?: 34 points to make it worth even having? Might as well not nerf it due to the already unbalance issues with this server, and just simply remove it imho.

If you want to fix balance just revert to old RA's.. It's out of control that you guys are getting feedback on normal functioning RA's... I asked for ST to get a nerf due to Thanes being the most OP with it capable of perma stunning their targets. But you for real nerf twf too... lol why?

Also if you're really already nerfing twf, Why haven't Shrooms got a nerf worth making people say "Hey, it's just not worth using anymore".. cause this will make people respec out of twf fast. specially reavers. No means of healing themselves other than being in a group. BD's have heal pets/a significant life tap. Wardens get twf but they can just heal/mitigate their HP easier than reaver/BD... so really this effects the Alb realm more than anything. Yet another nerf that makes alb realm feel less tempting.

If **Charge** were in the game it wouldn't be so bad, but Hibs get their group synergy with less classes needed over ANY other realm, even tho the group of mids I usually roll with don't require much but still.. We're supposed to be the melee hulk smash realm anyways. Albs on the other hand........ wow.. since beta the albion realm is lacking the tricks needed to RvR like other realms. I've played all 3 so far, and I gotta tell you.... Hibs have 3 of the main classes needed to RvR ALL in 1 class. Albs need like 2 or 3 character slots open in that group to even make up for the 1 class on hib side..

Back to the drawling board.. Might end up just making a Hib so I can CC/heal, stun nuke/cures with 1 class or just enjoy the server's balance...

Volly needs removed or fixed to where it's the Aoe 1 shot per 5 minutes version same(ish) damage, around 400-500 damage.
Since beta scouts got shafted when it comes to dealing bow damage.. in my life of playing daoc, I never played a scouts to where I felt like I should be doing more damage except here on Phoenix. Beta they were doing like 200 more damage than now. Sure they get slam and all, but wtf good is slam when the entire server population has Purge 5 lolol (not the whole server but if not all/MOST people that RvR already have it on a 5min cooldown) Change Purge to 10 or 15 minutes.. Not 5. 5 minutes also makes albs get the backlash most of all 3 realms.

Few more patches like this and more people will eventually leave this server and end up doing something else... Sure you can say "Bye, then" but it will never fix these issues. we love this server and this game so much that it's the ONLY game worth coming back to for the most polished mmo ever made(when it comes to PvP combat)

We first have to come together and realize that this server's balance is on trial. Then fix it the best ways possible for ALL 3 realms, not just 1 or 2. You gotta find the middle grounds for these types of patches or we wont have any albs to kill lol, they gonna realm hop soon.


Hahahaha, i'm sorry, but really, your post is just too funny, poor Albion, creating toons just to click on one button to fight almost every tower and keeps fights, then whines when its shiny toy gets nerfed in a really deserved way.

Well guess what, maybe if your realm didn't abuse the hell outta of TWF like fat pigs this nerf wouldn't have come, but no, you people had to create a whole bunch of reavers just to use one freaking spell and spend die just after casting it 95% of the time. "Oh, bewewew, why do you nerf our iwin button Phoenix, why, WHY CAN'T WE JUST WIN EVERY STRUCTURE'S BATTLE ???"

Oh god, your reply made me think of that sequence so much !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et0bdMeSvjE

Isn't that how this nerf came to be? a bunch of cry babies whining about dying from said twf? LOL tf are you talking about right now
Also you wanna talk deserving? how about nerf shrooms LoS the same way ST and TWF are getting their's nerffed? aye? no? why not? stfu...
Fri 26 Jul 2019 9:38 AM by Leandrys
I don't care about shrooms, do it, be my guest, please, i beg you, i trade every day TWAlb versus useless shrooms, albion deserves to be spanked for how they've been abusing of MONOSPELLDAOCEXPERIENCE.

Edit : oh i remember you now :

IMO druids need nerffed, they don't need a 4 second recast instant AoE speed breaking, spell interrupting insta that they can just spam in group fights. Considering most if not all larger groups don't already have 2 or 3 bards/druids on Hib side.

Yes, nerf druid's amnesia too, all you want. What a pearl.
Fri 26 Jul 2019 10:19 AM by relvinian
DAOC is a very unfair place.

Solos die to groups.

Lower levels die to higher levels.

High rr toons kill the shit out of lower levels.

It is rock/paper/scissors with some classes beating others.

NOT FAIR.

And who wants it to be?

These adjustments to field RAs should be the sort of adjustment which balances group fights but doesn't hurt solo play.

In the current state of affairs you can rush into a tower and drop 4 TWFs and it is pretty much game over. You can also rush head long into a tower and some will die to a single twf.

What needs to be done about the single twf is not much. Send a scout. You roll in with 100 people into a tower without sending one scout and 10 die?

Fucking learn!

But the other example, the 4 twf one, that is a severe balance issue. You can't send one scout in and stop the death. That doesn't help.

So don't nerf the RA and screw solos and groups, when solos don't need the screwing.

What needs to be adjusted is the ability to put MULTIPLE field spells in the same place.

Like you cap shrooms in an area, can you cap field spells?

Because that is what needs to be addressed. 4 TWFS, not one TWF.
Fri 26 Jul 2019 10:21 AM by Sepplord
TWFs haven't been stacking for a long time
Fri 26 Jul 2019 10:38 AM by Hejjin
Sepplord wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 10:21 AM
TWFs haven't been stacking for a long time
They don't stack for damage, but they can overlap one another.
Fri 26 Jul 2019 10:46 AM by keen
relvinian wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 10:19 AM
What needs to be done about the single twf is not much. Send a scout. You roll in with 100 people into a tower without sending one scout and 10 die?
Fucking learn!
Fucking learn to read?
As mentioned like a hundret times, TWF issue is for the defending realm mainly not for the attacker.
Fri 26 Jul 2019 11:18 AM by Leandrys
As soon as alb TWF train starts to co, there's no real reason to keep fighting if they got the numbers, keen is right, maybe not with words, but this extreme abuse has to stop.

Time to put these changes live on phoenix devs.
Fri 26 Jul 2019 11:32 AM by keen
Leandrys wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 11:18 AM
As soon as alb TWF train starts to co, there's no real reason to keep fighting if they got the numbers, keen is right, maybe not with words, but this extreme abuse has to stop.

Time to put these changes live on phoenix devs.
well he keeps posting the same derailing arguments in every thread just because he started playing a TWF class, neglecting all ppl telling him that he is missing the point with his argumentation. at some point i think its fair if you lose your patience a bit, explaining it like the 10th time to the same person.
Fri 26 Jul 2019 12:02 PM by relvinian
You could make it so that there is a zone in which you cannot have more than one of each type of field spell per realm. Bigger than a tower space. I dunno like 1000 radius.

In that space you can have one field spell of each type in effect for a one minute period, for each realm.

Try and throw a twf you get message back, too many field spells.
Fri 26 Jul 2019 12:56 PM by chryso
gotwqqd wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 5:25 AM
...any rebuttal affirms the ability as op

LOL, any body who disagrees with me is automatically wrong.
Nice try, genius.
Fri 26 Jul 2019 1:25 PM by Leandrys
relvinian wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 12:02 PM
You could make it so that there is a zone in which you cannot have more than one of each type of field spell per realm. Bigger than a tower space. I dunno like 1000 radius.

In that space you can have one field spell of each type in effect for a one minute period, for each realm.

Try and throw a twf you get message back, too many field spells.

Still too strong cause of huge vertical radius.
Fri 26 Jul 2019 1:28 PM by relvinian
Leandrys wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 1:25 PM
relvinian wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 12:02 PM
You could make it so that there is a zone in which you cannot have more than one of each type of field spell per realm. Bigger than a tower space. I dunno like 1000 radius.

In that space you can have one field spell of each type in effect for a one minute period, for each realm.

Try and throw a twf you get message back, too many field spells.

Still too strong cause of huge vertical radius.

Before the nerf u can get kills in a tower solo. After the nerf, precisely nobody will die vs solo twfer.

That is a HUGE difference.

With one TWF able to cast per minute u can send a scout, try to do something. With the current state of 4 twfs plus their interlocking fields, no chance. I win button.

TWF is an RA which belongs to certain classes. Because of abuse, fix abuse, but don't do harm to the classes themselves. Still hope a better work around could be found for animist or maybe tweak it a little.

Tweaking field ra is one thing but making it so field ra cannot kill anyone is entirely another thing.
Fri 26 Jul 2019 1:38 PM by Leandrys
Well, you wern't supposed to be able to rack solo kills why sending one TWF, that's the main problem, remember the BDs camping each mid keep in OF ? Situation is much worse now cause of Albion clearly abusing that RA, it was meant to be a support RA, not what it's been since the whole beginning of Phoenix.

And atm, one TWF is able to wipe a defending BG, because that BG is unable to defend, precisely. Just need to SoS that good little one touch reaver into the tower, spam heals while he bravely casts his TWF and dies right after most of time, send the rest of players, battle won, 1 TWF.

In fact most of time you don't even need to heal the reaver, he doesn't even need a group, it's just fantasy.
Fri 26 Jul 2019 2:46 PM by Draginclaw
It would be interesting to see if TWF didn't interrupt and only did damage and slowed you.
Fri 26 Jul 2019 3:28 PM by Prometheus
Well, I can tell you one thing, the more and more you make things custom the fewer people you will have playing, please don't ruin the game just because people complain, Hibernia, in particular, are already sour over losing animist in RvR with the 300 unit shroom nerf.
Fri 26 Jul 2019 3:36 PM by Isavyr
Opposed to #1, OK with #2.
Fri 26 Jul 2019 4:29 PM by Vkejai
This server will land up like minecraft combat before long
Fri 26 Jul 2019 5:50 PM by Juanito
1. could be ok to deal with the 10 - 30 QQ guys,
2. is a real non sens to me

I would add that, despite the amazing job you are doing keeping this server up, putting TWF and NM + ST in the same area is a clear and obvious confession that you guys don't understand DAOC mechanics (which are to be totally clear a complete mess since the very beginning), and that you are devs and not game designers.

As many said already :
- if I die, my shrooms die too ?
- If i die, my dots stop to tick ?
- If i die, my zzz stop ?
No.

I also feel very bad for people, especially wardens, who leveled a toon to play the Game the way you guys wanted(zerg), and see their efforts destroyed in such abitrary and absolutes way.
Fri 26 Jul 2019 6:50 PM by Loki
This doesn't affect me personally in any way, I just wanna point out the long line of nerfs in the name of balance .
Fri 26 Jul 2019 7:00 PM by cuuchulain79
Prometheus wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 3:28 PM
Well, I can tell you one thing, the more and more you make things custom the fewer people you will have playing, please don't ruin the game just because people complain, Hibernia, in particular, are already sour over losing animist in RvR with the 300 unit shroom nerf.

Yeah...lots of players are still waiting for a good Classic w/ QoL DAoC server...

Funny to see how far Phoenix dove down the rabbit hole of full custom, in such a short time.
Fri 26 Jul 2019 9:03 PM by Boric
It is very interesting how many things have been implemented but never really used/cared upon.

Challenge mode in PvE for example.
12 different Bonus Exp multipliers... Obviously the first 10 did not fix the root cause of no groups except Meta Bomb ones to level?
57 variations of RP bonuses/tasks to settle in at 'if you RvR you get bonus every 30m'.
Solo/Smallman 10% bonus at ruins, quickly ran over by groups and now not worth it. Not enough of a bonus.
EV?
Nerf XXX (TWF for example) in 5 different ways, instead of thinking through it and changing off start.
Feathers? Go from only Epic dungeons being ran with 400 people non stop, to now only DS speed runs -> Nerf speed runs
Discussion of Feather Nerf.

Many of these were poorly thought out band-aid solutions that could of used some public discussions to see the pros/cons and adjust before releasing and letting it be abused? People getting RR10 from TWS before Nerf #1, people getting 500k feathers from DS speed runs before a fix, people farming 8p / hr on Animist before salvage nerf.
Fri 26 Jul 2019 9:23 PM by gruenesschaf
Boric wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 9:03 PM
12 different Bonus Exp multipliers... Obviously the first 10 did not fix the root cause of no groups except Meta Bomb ones to level?
Not sure what you're trying to say? There are only two bonuses that are directly meant to encourage grouping: social bonus and stacking instance bonus. The biggest change to facilitate grouping is how xp is shared in groups, not the other bonuses.

Boric wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 9:03 PM
57 variations of RP bonuses/tasks to settle in at 'if you RvR you get bonus every 30m'.
Every other variation caused different issues. Additionally, with NF there is no reason to try to get people to rotate to other realms as everywhere is equally accessible by everyone. The primary purpose of the tasks is to let people catch up rp wise on new characters, the secondary purpose was the realm rotation, the participation task perfectly fulfills the primary purpose and is incredibly easy to understand.

Boric wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 9:03 PM
Solo/Smallman 10% bonus at ruins, quickly ran over by groups and now not worth it. Not enough of a bonus.
Will eventually see a different iteration

Boric wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 9:03 PM
EV?
Since all 3 items drop there it's useful for pve and since the teleport it's useful for 8v8, with /gvg fights are actually happening there again and with further iterations on the gvg command more is expected.

Boric wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 9:03 PM
Nerf XXX (TWF for example) in 5 different ways, instead of thinking through it and changing off start.
Right, everything must be perfect when introduced and later changes are not allowed.

Boric wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 9:03 PM
Feathers? Go from only Epic dungeons being ran with 400 people non stop, to now only DS speed runs -> Nerf speed runs
Daily 1 hour runs yielding 15 - 20k and 5+ 20min runs per day yielding about 11k are exactly the same thing.
Fri 26 Jul 2019 10:10 PM by Pops999
gruenesschaf wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 9:23 PM
Boric wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 9:03 PM
12 different Bonus Exp multipliers... Obviously the first 10 did not fix the root cause of no groups except Meta Bomb ones to level?
Not sure what you're trying to say? There are only two bonuses that are directly meant to encourage grouping: social bonus and stacking instance bonus. The biggest change to facilitate grouping is how xp is shared in groups, not the other bonuses.

Boric wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 9:03 PM
57 variations of RP bonuses/tasks to settle in at 'if you RvR you get bonus every 30m'.
Every other variation caused different issues. Additionally, with NF there is no reason to try to get people to rotate to other realms as everywhere is equally accessible by everyone. The primary purpose of the tasks is to let people catch up rp wise on new characters, the secondary purpose was the realm rotation, the participation task perfectly fulfills the primary purpose and is incredibly easy to understand.

Boric wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 9:03 PM
Solo/Smallman 10% bonus at ruins, quickly ran over by groups and now not worth it. Not enough of a bonus.
Will eventually see a different iteration

Boric wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 9:03 PM
EV?
Since all 3 items drop there it's useful for pve and since the teleport it's useful for 8v8, with /gvg fights are actually happening there again and with further iterations on the gvg command more is expected.

Boric wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 9:03 PM
Nerf XXX (TWF for example) in 5 different ways, instead of thinking through it and changing off start.
Right, everything must be perfect when introduced and later changes are not allowed.

Boric wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 9:03 PM
Feathers? Go from only Epic dungeons being ran with 400 people non stop, to now only DS speed runs -> Nerf speed runs
Daily 1 hour runs yielding 15 - 20k and 5+ 20min runs per day yielding about 11k are exactly the same thing.

If you wanted new players to catch up RP wise, why did you give in to the nerf cries and make realm tasks start at level 35?
Fri 26 Jul 2019 10:24 PM by gruenesschaf
Pops999 wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 10:10 PM
If you wanted new players to catch up RP wise, why did you give in to the nerf cries and make realm tasks start at level 35?

Leveling really is not an issue here and the masses of grays in rvr really don't help anyone.
Fri 26 Jul 2019 10:28 PM by relvinian
I'm not here to try and pick on the devs.

I want a solution to RA abuse which does not nerf the class.

We are all in this together.
Sat 27 Jul 2019 10:46 AM by Killaloth
Prometheus wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 3:28 PM
Well, I can tell you one thing, the more and more you make things custom the fewer people you will have playing, please don't ruin the game just because people complain

Do you think there are more people annoyed by 2-3 twf players rushing in and dropping a twf that works on multiple floors and can wipe a bg

Or

It's the few twf annoyed because of the twf adjustment? How can a twf class rebalance their RAs to scale down twf to be still a great rupt RA and use points on something else?

I see more people joining back bgs because now they don't wipe anymore to sos>twf suicide.

Prometheus wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 3:28 PM
Hibernia, in particular, are already sour over losing animist in RvR with the 300 unit shroom nerf.

Hibernia has not lost animists in rvr, they still do their job. I can show you a 4 man video with bard-vw-animist-drood killing it in rvr.

Adjusting a single class that reaps rps to the expense of the others is a rebalance. Adapt and move over.

Also changes are not set in stone, if something is dramatically wrong they will change it.
Sat 27 Jul 2019 11:25 AM by relvinian
They could put in all the changes and reduce the cost by 50% for the ra
Sat 27 Jul 2019 11:32 AM by keen
relvinian wrote:
Sat 27 Jul 2019 11:25 AM
They could put in all the changes and reduce the cost by 50% for the ra
It's still a great Ra, more powerful than a lot of others RAs. Just cause it was completely broken for keep fights before doesn't mean it is bad after an adjustment.
Sat 27 Jul 2019 11:35 AM by relvinian
Just make it 14 points, like the old ra.

14 points for twf, put ur changes in.
Sat 27 Jul 2019 12:32 PM by keen
relvinian wrote:
Sat 27 Jul 2019 11:35 AM
Just make it 14 points, like the old ra.

14 points for twf, put ur changes in.
You also want a 30 min timer then?
/Em shakes his head
Sat 27 Jul 2019 3:04 PM by MacPrior
gruenesschaf wrote:
Fri 26 Jul 2019 10:24 PM
Leveling really is not an issue here and the masses of grays in rvr really don't help anyone.

Leveling is always an issue. Personally leveled 2 classes to 50 and would make at least 2 more. But each time I start to level a low twink, the week of NO DAOC Time follows, because leveling still boring, monoton and too long.

It was once on Live no issue, as they have implemented Kill Tasks in BG and the RvR Tasks there and increased XP and Plats income in RvR, so everyone was able to rich lvl 50 just through RVR and Tasks there.
Sat 27 Jul 2019 4:44 PM by gruenesschaf
The next update will include change #1 for TWF and NM while in keep areas (you enter xy).
Sat 27 Jul 2019 5:39 PM by Isavyr
gruenesschaf wrote:
Sat 27 Jul 2019 4:44 PM
The next update will include change #1 for TWF and NM while in keep areas (you enter xy).

As others mentioned, TWF was originally designed as a form of crowd control. The balance is very bad currently. Let's compare NM, which is solely about damage, to TWF, which has a crowd control component:

TWF 5:
250 dmg every 3 seconds, 10 tics (2500 damage total)
- no build up
- snares enemies
- highest total damage RA
- short CD

NM 5:
100 dmg, then 200, then 300, then 400, then 400, then 500 (1800 damage total)
- has long build up
- no snare
- moderate damage
- moderate CD

Looking at these abilities, it seems incredible that NM is being grouped with TWF, when all the complaints and issues are about TWF, and rightfully so. It snares, it has no build up, its damage frequency is higher, and it has the total highest damage, and best of all, it has a lowest cooldown so it can be used 1.5x as often. The ability is completely and literally imbalanced with its peer abilities.

As others mentioned, reducing the Z-axis to the abilities seems a more appropriate solution. Was this considered?
Sat 27 Jul 2019 9:36 PM by ExcretusMaximus
MacPrior wrote:
Sat 27 Jul 2019 3:04 PM
Leveling is always an issue. Personally leveled 2 classes to 50 and would make at least 2 more. But each time I start to level a low twink, the week of NO DAOC Time follows, because leveling still boring, monoton and too long.


If you can't stand taking a whole 12-24 hours played to level from 1-50, then this really isn't the genre for you.
Sat 27 Jul 2019 9:55 PM by relvinian
so will we get free respecs like one each full and ra respec so we can redesign our toons after this huge change?
Sat 27 Jul 2019 10:01 PM by florin
relvinian wrote:
Sat 27 Jul 2019 9:55 PM
so will we get free respecs like one each full and ra respec so we can redesign our toons after this huge change?

Why do grown adults continue to beg for respect when they are so easy to get? I have used maybe 20 so far...paid for.
Sat 27 Jul 2019 10:48 PM by relvinian
florin wrote:
Sat 27 Jul 2019 10:01 PM
relvinian wrote:
Sat 27 Jul 2019 9:55 PM
so will we get free respecs like one each full and ra respec so we can redesign our toons after this huge change?

Why do grown adults continue to beg for respect when they are so easy to get? I have used maybe 20 so far...paid for.

When i planned, leveled, and designed this toon the sky was blue. 10 minutes ago the sky is green.

Now if you run into a tower with twf, if u see the twf animation u can turn and walk back and take no dmg. It is a joke.

15 days /played on this warden. I would like to make a lvl 50 rr 5 toon of my choice instead of this one. Free
Sun 28 Jul 2019 12:20 AM by MacPrior
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Sat 27 Jul 2019 9:36 PM
MacPrior wrote:
Sat 27 Jul 2019 3:04 PM
Leveling is always an issue. Personally leveled 2 classes to 50 and would make at least 2 more. But each time I start to level a low twink, the week of NO DAOC Time follows, because leveling still boring, monoton and too long.


If you can't stand taking a whole 12-24 hours played to level from 1-50, then this really isn't the genre for you.

Played - YES! But not stupid hour for hour grinding the MoBs. DAoC is an RvR Game, letr me answere on your style - If you don't want from the beginning on play in RvR - it's really isn't your game!
Sun 28 Jul 2019 8:16 AM by Hejjin
florin wrote:
Sat 27 Jul 2019 10:01 PM
relvinian wrote:
Sat 27 Jul 2019 9:55 PM
so will we get free respecs like one each full and ra respec so we can redesign our toons after this huge change?

Why do grown adults continue to beg for respect when they are so easy to get? I have used maybe 20 so far...paid for.
It would be a nice courtesy gesture on the part of the devs to credit the classes that have been impacted by a substantial change to their class with a free respec, but really that should have been implemented at the start, it is too late to start to do it now.
Sun 28 Jul 2019 8:18 AM by keen
Hejjin wrote:
Sun 28 Jul 2019 8:16 AM
florin wrote:
Sat 27 Jul 2019 10:01 PM
relvinian wrote:
Sat 27 Jul 2019 9:55 PM
so will we get free respecs like one each full and ra respec so we can redesign our toons after this huge change?

Why do grown adults continue to beg for respect when they are so easy to get? I have used maybe 20 so far...paid for.
It would be a nice courtesy gesture on the part of the devs to credit the classes that have been impacted by a substantial change to their class with a free respec, but really that should have been implemented at the start, it is too late to start to do it now.
why would it be too late? I think a RA respec would be justified. Depends how much work that is for Devs cause respecs are dirt cheap anyway.
Sun 28 Jul 2019 8:22 AM by Hejjin
MacPrior wrote:
Sun 28 Jul 2019 12:20 AM
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Sat 27 Jul 2019 9:36 PM
MacPrior wrote:
Sat 27 Jul 2019 3:04 PM
Leveling is always an issue. Personally leveled 2 classes to 50 and would make at least 2 more. But each time I start to level a low twink, the week of NO DAOC Time follows, because leveling still boring, monoton and too long.


If you can't stand taking a whole 12-24 hours played to level from 1-50, then this really isn't the genre for you.

Played - YES! But not stupid hour for hour grinding the MoBs. DAoC is an RvR Game, letr me answere on your style - If you don't want from the beginning on play in RvR - it's really isn't your game!
It is hardly a grind, the combination of collection tasks, kill tasks and mobs with bonus exp, means it is trivial to level to 50. After level 35 the addition of item hand ins for PvEing in a RvR zone / BG or taking part in a BG doing keep takes / defences makes it even easier to level. if you are truly grinding mobs to level, then you are doing something very wrong.
Sun 28 Jul 2019 8:24 AM by Hejjin
keen wrote:
Sun 28 Jul 2019 8:18 AM
Hejjin wrote:
Sun 28 Jul 2019 8:16 AM
florin wrote:
Sat 27 Jul 2019 10:01 PM
Why do grown adults continue to beg for respect when they are so easy to get? I have used maybe 20 so far...paid for.
It would be a nice courtesy gesture on the part of the devs to credit the classes that have been impacted by a substantial change to their class with a free respec, but really that should have been implemented at the start, it is too late to start to do it now.
why would it be too late? I think a RA respec would be justified. Depends how much work that is for Devs cause respecs are dirt cheap anyway.
I consider it to be too late because of the sheer number of prior changes / nerfs that occurred and those impacted classes were not offered respecs. Don't get me wrong, I would not be against them doing it, I just do not believe they will.
Sun 28 Jul 2019 10:32 AM by Vkejai
My BD didn't get a respec after the darkness pet nerf so I doubt if he get one now. I predict a vanish and volley nerf next. Heals and tanks probably the safest classes right now to avoid any nerf bat.
Sun 28 Jul 2019 10:38 AM by relvinian
A general, free set of respecs for all would be a nice gesture.
Sun 28 Jul 2019 10:47 AM by MacPrior
Oh weh! Critical Situation - we have been inside the tower while we raided, Mids came to tower, healer taked only one in target inside and mezzed ALL of us! And wiped!

Thats a horror! Vote for having line of sight for AE Mezz, Root and Stun to every1 who has the effect! Like for TWF!!!!!
Sun 28 Jul 2019 1:10 PM by florin
Hejjin wrote:
Sun 28 Jul 2019 8:16 AM
florin wrote:
Sat 27 Jul 2019 10:01 PM
relvinian wrote:
Sat 27 Jul 2019 9:55 PM
so will we get free respecs like one each full and ra respec so we can redesign our toons after this huge change?

Why do grown adults continue to beg for respect when they are so easy to get? I have used maybe 20 so far...paid for.
It would be a nice courtesy gesture on the part of the devs to credit the classes that have been impacted by a substantial change to their class with a free respec, but really that should have been implemented at the start, it is too late to start to do it now.

I’m might have imagined it but I thought the stated goal was to make them easy to obtain and forgo handouts even with class defining changes
Sun 28 Jul 2019 1:25 PM by Hejjin
florin wrote:
Sun 28 Jul 2019 1:10 PM
Hejjin wrote:
Sun 28 Jul 2019 8:16 AM
florin wrote:
Sat 27 Jul 2019 10:01 PM
Why do grown adults continue to beg for respect when they are so easy to get? I have used maybe 20 so far...paid for.
It would be a nice courtesy gesture on the part of the devs to credit the classes that have been impacted by a substantial change to their class with a free respec, but really that should have been implemented at the start, it is too late to start to do it now.

I’m might have imagined it but I thought the stated goal was to make them easy to obtain and forgo handouts even with class defining changes
Was it? I was not in beta, so I have no idea if that is indeed the case.
Sun 28 Jul 2019 6:23 PM by relvinian
I was in beta.

Since it bears almost zero resemblance to the server now?

You didn't miss much.
Sun 28 Jul 2019 6:27 PM by florin
relvinian wrote:
Sun 28 Jul 2019 6:23 PM
I was in beta.

Since it bears almost zero resemblance to the server now?

You didn't miss much.

Beta was 2x better IMO
Sun 28 Jul 2019 6:28 PM by Druth
relvinian wrote:
Sun 28 Jul 2019 6:23 PM
I was in beta.

Since it bears almost zero resemblance to the server now?

You didn't miss much.

You were complaining back then as well, so you should see some familiarity.
Sun 28 Jul 2019 7:32 PM by relvinian
Druth wrote:
Sun 28 Jul 2019 6:28 PM
relvinian wrote:
Sun 28 Jul 2019 6:23 PM
I was in beta.

Since it bears almost zero resemblance to the server now?

You didn't miss much.

You were complaining back then as well, so you should see some familiarity.

You're welcome.
Sun 28 Jul 2019 11:00 PM by falcon
florin wrote:
Sun 28 Jul 2019 6:27 PM
Beta was 2x better IMO

Vkejai wrote:
Sun 28 Jul 2019 10:32 AM
My BD didn't get a respec after the darkness pet nerf so I doubt if he get one now. I predict a vanish and volley nerf next. Heals and tanks probably the safest classes right now to avoid any nerf bat.

Phoenix was a paradise, and become as boring as live now... what is next step when all players who have fun gone after 50 nerfs ? create a new vanilla phoenix 100% same as beta ? :p

Ok we didn't pay a lot and Dev sometimes do good job, but week after week, 1 small pleasure removed (my 1st char was a cabal, never farm again since shield nerf...)

Hopefully twf nerf was not so terrible (if no damage when dead I should leave immediately forever ^^)
Well I cant kill anyone even grey now with TWF (sad I will never do other damage with something else, it was not my goal...) but when I group with 1 or 2 another reavers (1 by floor) we do same effect & RP (more when zerg near and finish work ^^) we think now how we could kill a full zerg, maybe whinner when I killed 4 afk solo in the past will regret old time if our small group find the good combination :p (3 reavers 1 ice wiz ? ^^)
Mon 29 Jul 2019 5:13 AM by Isavyr
falcon wrote:
Sun 28 Jul 2019 11:00 PM
Phoenix was a paradise, and become as boring as live now... what is next step when all players who have fun gone after 50 nerfs ? create a new vanilla phoenix 100% same as beta ? :p

Ok we didn't pay a lot and Dev sometimes do good job, but week after week, 1 small pleasure removed (my 1st char was a cabal, never farm again since shield nerf...)

Hopefully twf nerf was not so terrible (if no damage when dead I should leave immediately forever ^^)
Well I cant kill anyone even grey now with TWF (sad I will never do other damage with something else, it was not my goal...) but when I group with 1 or 2 another reavers (1 by floor) we do same effect & RP (more when zerg near and finish work ^^) we think now how we could kill a full zerg, maybe whinner when I killed 4 afk solo in the past will regret old time if our small group find the good combination :p (3 reavers 1 ice wiz ? ^^)

I'm sorry to hear. I disagree, and wish I could discuss it more, but you're stating your opinion in a way that there's nothing to discuss.
Mon 29 Jul 2019 8:41 AM by ddelmarle
falcon wrote:
Sun 28 Jul 2019 11:00 PM
florin wrote:
Sun 28 Jul 2019 6:27 PM
Beta was 2x better IMO

Vkejai wrote:
Sun 28 Jul 2019 10:32 AM
My BD didn't get a respec after the darkness pet nerf so I doubt if he get one now. I predict a vanish and volley nerf next. Heals and tanks probably the safest classes right now to avoid any nerf bat.

Phoenix was a paradise, and become as boring as live now... what is next step when all players who have fun gone after 50 nerfs ? create a new vanilla phoenix 100% same as beta ? :p

Ok we didn't pay a lot and Dev sometimes do good job, but week after week, 1 small pleasure removed (my 1st char was a cabal, never farm again since shield nerf...)

Hopefully twf nerf was not so terrible (if no damage when dead I should leave immediately forever ^^)
Well I cant kill anyone even grey now with TWF (sad I will never do other damage with something else, it was not my goal...) but when I group with 1 or 2 another reavers (1 by floor) we do same effect & RP (more when zerg near and finish work ^^) we think now how we could kill a full zerg, maybe whinner when I killed 4 afk solo in the past will regret old time if our small group find the good combination :p (3 reavers 1 ice wiz ? ^^)

So if i understand you complain that you cannot wipe a full zerg anymore with a simple click if a button?
Mon 29 Jul 2019 10:07 AM by falcon
ddelmarle wrote:
Mon 29 Jul 2019 8:41 AM
So if i understand you complain that you cannot wipe a full zerg anymore with a simple click if a button?

solo TWF who killed full Zerg is an urban legend, if u read what I said, I killed in the past 4 or 5 afk solo in a tower and it bring a lot of whining...

The real problem is small bomb group able to kill half zerg, and now no choice to play twf (we cant kill anything with it even grey afk :p ) without them, not sure whiners stop whining :p

Each time Dev nerf something usually players imagine something 10x worst good luck with this crusade, maybe better to let people have fun killing 2 or 3 nude afk sometimes ^^ if hunter/scout able to kill one blue sit down sometimes maybe they will never find assist volley and destroy spirit of the game (nerf inc, sad for them...)
Mon 29 Jul 2019 10:12 AM by keen
falcon wrote:
Mon 29 Jul 2019 10:07 AM
and now no choice to play twf (we cant kill anything with it even grey afk :p )
It doesn't give your post any credibility if you write some fake news. DMG has not been touched so you can kill as many afk players as before.
Mon 29 Jul 2019 10:31 AM by ddelmarle
falcon wrote:
Mon 29 Jul 2019 10:07 AM
ddelmarle wrote:
Mon 29 Jul 2019 8:41 AM
So if i understand you complain that you cannot wipe a full zerg anymore with a simple click if a button?

solo TWF who killed full Zerg is an urban legend, if u read what I said, I killed in the past 4 or 5 afk solo in a tower and it bring a lot of whining...

The real problem is small bomb group able to kill half zerg, and now no choice to play twf (we cant kill anything with it even grey afk :p ) without them, not sure whiners stop whining :p

Each time Dev nerf something usually players imagine something 10x worst good luck with this crusade, maybe better to let people have fun killing 2 or 3 nude afk sometimes ^^ if hunter/scout able to kill one blue sit down sometimes maybe they will never find assist volley and destroy spirit of the game (nerf inc, sad for them...)

playing a bomber eldritch i would love to have something comparable to twf, i never had the opportunity to cast one pbaoe in keep defense because you got instantly 2 or 3 twf in your face. good luck to cast anything as soon as door are open. also the range is not really comparable, you really need other player to be attacking you in melee so they are close.
Mon 29 Jul 2019 11:20 AM by falcon
keen wrote:
Mon 29 Jul 2019 10:12 AM
falcon wrote:
Mon 29 Jul 2019 10:07 AM
and now no choice to play twf (we cant kill anything with it even grey afk :p )
It doesn't give your post any credibility if you write some fake news. DMG has not been touched so you can kill as many afk players as before.

Wrong Afk players never go on lord room, they could stay 1 stage under and give food to dog without risk they was such people dying in TWF not tank at lord with 2000+ HP and 2 healers in group damage reduced by 100% under lord room :p

ddelmarle wrote:
Mon 29 Jul 2019 10:31 AM
playing a bomber eldritch i would love to have something comparable to twf, i never had the opportunity to cast one pbaoe in keep defense because you got instantly 2 or 3 twf in your face. good luck to cast anything as soon as door are open. also the range is not really comparable, you really need other player to be attacking you in melee so they are close.

Agree solo eldritch cant cast anything, thats why now new bomb group have differents class & RA to decuple the effect of TWF (not useful anymore not in group) Mid found the good combination, many deads last weekend in our zerg, hib & alb work on the project :p
Mon 29 Jul 2019 5:49 PM by Glenfiddich83
Perfect for charging Midgard Tankgroups. So they dont have to fear TWF or Maelstroms in towerfights at all. After charging inside a Tower they´re out of LOS within 2 ticks and have no problems to raid anything they want ...
Obviously DEV are playing mainly (perhaps not all) Midgard?! Im wondering because the last bigger patch about game-mechanics allowed off-tanks to climb towers and keeps. But the only Realm which consists mainly of Off-tanks in RvR is Midgard? (Savage / Savage / Zerk + crap). Maybe there are few Tank-setups on Hib/Albion too, but never as many as there are in mid. If I remember right, live servers only allowed fulltanks to climb walls? That would have been a nice thing if only DEV where interested in any kind of balance.
Also Funny: Just a few weeks before TWF / NM -Changes where published, at least 2 Midgrps formed in perfect keepdefending-setup (SM SM SM/Thane) .. just like someone knew that TWF wont be a deadly Tower charging-RA in a few days and Defending grps will become Meta again. Maybe luck maybe not. Dont know...

Enough QQ and conspiracy theries for now ..
Be fair and give stoism to Reavers so theyre not as easy to peel as they are now...
Tue 30 Jul 2019 6:03 AM by Druth
Glenfiddich83 wrote:
Mon 29 Jul 2019 5:49 PM
Perfect for charging Midgard Tankgroups. So they dont have to fear TWF or Maelstroms in towerfights at all. After charging inside a Tower they´re out of LOS within 2 ticks and have no problems to raid anything they want ...
Obviously DEV are playing mainly (perhaps not all) Midgard?! Im wondering because the last bigger patch about game-mechanics allowed off-tanks to climb towers and keeps. But the only Realm which consists mainly of Off-tanks in RvR is Midgard? (Savage / Savage / Zerk + crap). Maybe there are few Tank-setups on Hib/Albion too, but never as many as there are in mid. If I remember right, live servers only allowed fulltanks to climb walls? That would have been a nice thing if only DEV where interested in any kind of balance.
Also Funny: Just a few weeks before TWF / NM -Changes where published, at least 2 Midgrps formed in perfect keepdefending-setup (SM SM SM/Thane) .. just like someone knew that TWF wont be a deadly Tower charging-RA in a few days and Defending grps will become Meta again. Maybe luck maybe not. Dont know...

Enough QQ and conspiracy theries for now ..
Be fair and give stoism to Reavers so theyre not as easy to peel as they are now...


You don't think nerfing a RA that interrupted casters, and killed them easier due to their lower hitpoints, would benefit casters more?
And you don't think nerfing a RA would hurt the realm, that had it on an already popular class, the most?

A RA that handily cleared an area of shrooms, and made casting more impossible.
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