SB vs NS - Phoenix Freeshard

The age old question...
SB has LA, 2H.
NS has DDs.
Which do you give the edge to 1v1?
Which 'counters' or 'beat's more of their intended target [other stealthers and casters]?

Fri 8 Feb 2019 12:02 AM by Zansobar

I think it is probably close, but I would give the edge to NS due to the magic damage and that dexterity is their acuity stat now in a head to head with a SB.

Fri 8 Feb 2019 2:29 AM by gxcochr

On this server NS wins every time. My 50 SB with a full temp doesn't stand a chance. I hope higher RR helps out because low RR is rough currently.

Fri 8 Feb 2019 3:48 AM by Lanceman

Are SB really that bad in comparison to the other assassin types?

Fri 8 Feb 2019 1:33 PM by dante`afk

blade NS will ultimately always have the higher dmg against mid leather.

higher RR might even out, you just have to be better at pressing buttons.

Fri 8 Feb 2019 2:21 PM by gxcochr

Any input from a rr4 or 5 SB on this topic? I am by no means great at a stealther yet. I'm a pretty fresh 50 and usually group with a buddy of mine who is another SB and we get 2 v 1 frequently by rr4 and rr5 nightshades. Infiltrators are almost as hard. I am 39 CS 29 LA rest at 37(stealth, venom, axe). I try to line up evade style and garrote for anytime and if I don't get an evade I follow up with achilles heel. I don't know if this is correct or if I should abandon trying to even get the evade followup as it seems impossible. Could be my spec too, but I find I don't hit anywhere near as hard as a NS even considering LA averaging out. I see very few doing well IE, Tila and a few others, I am just trying to find out what the secret is. We do run combi barrels and end pots, don't have any str/con charges yet.

Sun 10 Feb 2019 4:40 AM by RioterControl

Don't know the end game mechanics on this server yet, but NB always chomped through SBs a bit easier at early RR. Its been a long time but after RR5 or so I remember the fights being more of the NBs having to have avoid pain or viper to stand a chance.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 8:00 AM by inoeth

gxcochr wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Feb 2019 2:21 PM
Any input from a rr4 or 5 SB on this topic? I am by no means great at a stealther yet. I'm a pretty fresh 50 and usually group with a buddy of mine who is another SB and we get 2 v 1 frequently by rr4 and rr5 nightshades. Infiltrators are almost as hard. I am 39 CS 29 LA rest at 37(stealth, venom, axe). I try to line up evade style and garrote for anytime and if I don't get an evade I follow up with achilles heel. I don't know if this is correct or if I should abandon trying to even get the evade followup as it seems impossible. Could be my spec too, but I find I don't hit anywhere near as hard as a NS even considering LA averaging out. I see very few doing well IE, Tila and a few others, I am just trying to find out what the secret is. We do run combi barrels and end pots, don't have any str/con charges yet.

29 la lol
la spec has influence on mh dmg, so the higher you spec la the higher your dmg gets with your mh and oh.
also with 29 la you dont have the stun which is very handy in 1on1 fights.

i would suggest to go at least 39 la, better 50
drop envenom and get dragon shadow sword so you can compensate not having the highest debuff

Mon 11 Feb 2019 10:45 AM by Spewy

SB rr5

You simply dont have a single change to win a NS blade.

The rest depends of evade and purge rate.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 6:11 PM by l00ri

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 8:00 AM
also with 29 la you dont have the stun which is very handy in 1on1 fights.

There is a Stun at 34 Axe too.

Higher CS Spec performs better than LA here. 44CS/27LA for example deals more Damage with Garotte + AH than 39CS/39LA so don't judge ppl with low LA if you don't have tested it yourself. ;-)

The problem in comparison to the beta is that the offhand got nerfed and that we don't have Duelists Reflexes with New RAs to boost the Damage of our Weapons.

In the Beta we had:

62.5% Mainhand Damage + up to 18% with Duelists Reflexes + LA-Spec * 0.38%
62.5% Offhand Damage + up to 18% with Duelists Reflexes + LA Spec * 0.38%

Now we have:

77.3% Mainhand Damage + LA Spec * 0.34%
52.5% Offhand Damage + LA Spec * 0.34%

This plus the 20% Damage difference via Armor to Bladeshades and the added direct Evade-Stun in the Blades-Line makes it almost impossible to win.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 7:13 PM by RioterControl

Its been a long time and a few free shards since I tested and played a SB. What I do remember is eventually ALWAYS going back to LA or 5 spec when RR8+ on SB. On the flip side, when playing an Inf, the LA/5 spec SB rr6+ were always much tougher. Medium defensive penalty on garrote is what I really didn't like, does that not come into play on this server? The last spec I was messing around with was pumping up the main weapon skill and seeing if that had and improvement on to hit bonuses. Was working fine but I have a feeling after rr8+ a SB will do well with either CS , 5 spec or LA spec. With viper....geez that would be a game changer for me as the only NBs I used to lose to needed Viper and Avoid Pain. But no spec beats the wife spec...she killed my DAOC days real quick...

Mon 11 Feb 2019 7:48 PM by Ashenspire

LA spec is overrated. Has been since the LA nerf. As you go up in RR, lower stealth and venom and put more into weapon/la, but never go full shadow zerker.

Defense penalty is negligible in the grand scheme of things and can be ignored.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 8:35 PM by RioterControl

That's what I've heard for years since the LA nerf ,yet have never specced higher than 34 Crit. I specced higher in LA and Weapon line and its performed well. What makes this server different from past experiences is what I'm trying to tease out. Are the style growth rates different? Too hit bonuses different? When I was heavy into this min maxing, the defensive penalty was enough for me...even if the experience was anecdotal.

If the change is simply the dmg percentage of each weapon changed, then my past experience with CS vs LA and ending up 5 spec and pumping up weapon and LA should hold true.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 1:17 AM by Seosaidh

Hmm also seems unfair that NS has an after evade stun in both lines (as well as INF for that matter) while the Shadowblade only has it in a chain in both axe and sword?

Fri 15 Feb 2019 9:25 AM by Aronox

l00ri wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 6:11 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 8:00 AM
also with 29 la you dont have the stun which is very handy in 1on1 fights.

There is a Stun at 34 Axe too.

Higher CS Spec performs better than LA here. 44CS/27LA for example deals more Damage with Garotte + AH than 39CS/39LA so don't judge ppl with low LA if you don't have tested it yourself. ;-)

The problem in comparison to the beta is that the offhand got nerfed and that we don't have Duelists Reflexes with New RAs to boost the Damage of our Weapons.

In the Beta we had:

62.5% Mainhand Damage + up to 18% with Duelists Reflexes + LA-Spec * 0.38%
62.5% Offhand Damage + up to 18% with Duelists Reflexes + LA Spec * 0.38%

Now we have:

77.3% Mainhand Damage + LA Spec * 0.34%
52.5% Offhand Damage + LA Spec * 0.34%

This plus the 20% Damage difference via Armor to Bladeshades and the added direct Evade-Stun in the Blades-Line makes it almost impossible to win.

Can you please make a example calc for a 4.2ats 16,5dps mh and 3,2ats 16,5dps offhand? Thank you.

Sat 16 Feb 2019 10:05 AM by Warlay

also sb has a lack of strenght here, i miss around 100str on my sb then for example uthgard :>, i want it!

Sat 16 Feb 2019 4:20 PM by HelloPancake

If this server holds true to classic preToA live -- I imagine infiltrators have the initial edge in early RRs, nightshades take the lead in middle RRs, and SBs catch up in high RRs when their RR is finally high enough to have good abilities and extra pts for CS and LA and anything not 50 comp--- the tasks and general population make getting to RR5+ so easy.. so expect nightshades to have a prominent position in RVR for a while until the diehard SBs mature in numbers

Sun 17 Feb 2019 1:14 PM by RioterControl

HelloPancake wrote: ↑
Sat 16 Feb 2019 4:20 PM
If this server holds true to classic preToA live -- I imagine infiltrators have the initial edge in early RRs, nightshades take the lead in middle RRs, and SBs catch up in high RRs when their RR is finally high enough to have good abilities and extra pts for CS and LA and anything not 50 comp--- the tasks and general population make getting to RR5+ so easy.. so expect nightshades to have a prominent position in RVR for a while until the diehard SBs mature in numbers

This has been my experience for every SB I have played or fought against. RR7+ I only lost if purge was down or NS had avoid pain and/or Viper. Now without avoid pain and everyone having Viper...RR7 SB should be very competitive.