NS spec

Started 8 Jun 2019
by Folobadob
in Hibernia
So i am about to roll my NS. All the NS’s i see are bladeshades it seems, whats the advantage over thrust? Better weapon choices?
Sat 8 Jun 2019 5:31 PM by DasBier
Infiltrators and shadowblades are getting + dmg from blades. They are weak for it.
Sat 8 Jun 2019 5:54 PM by Folobadob
Ahh ok so they weak to slash?
Sat 8 Jun 2019 6:06 PM by Inkwell84
all alb is slash neutral
alb leather and plate is crush weak / pierce strong
alb chain and studded is pierce weak / crush strong

all mid is crush neutral
mid leather and studded is slash weak / pierce strong
mid chain is pierce weak / slash strong
Sat 8 Jun 2019 6:32 PM by Cadebrennus
Don't forget that even though Blades is +10% damage Vs Mid leather/studded and neutral to all of Alb that Elf/Keens will have much lower Weaponskill with Blades than Norse/Dwarf/Briton/Highlanders resulting in more misses and more blocks/evades, along with less damage per hit.
Sat 8 Jun 2019 7:01 PM by florin
You only hear sb crying about bladeshades
Sun 9 Jun 2019 9:50 PM by Folobadob
Also, i forgot how autotrain works for stealth, if thats even a thing still? Do i now want to put anything into stealth before a certain level?
Mon 10 Jun 2019 11:56 PM by Pixsii
Free respecs to level 50 OR rr 3 - so no, no need to auto-train.
Tue 11 Jun 2019 1:18 AM by Saroi
Pixsii wrote:
Mon 10 Jun 2019 11:56 PM
Free respecs to level 50 OR rr 3 - so no, no need to auto-train.

Level or rr does not matter anymore. Respec is free each level untill you hit 24 hours of played.
Tue 11 Jun 2019 1:21 AM by Saroi
Folobadob wrote:
Sun 9 Jun 2019 9:50 PM
Also, i forgot how autotrain works for stealth, if thats even a thing still? Do i now want to put anything into stealth before a certain level?

At the Auto train level 8, 12, 16 etc. you can spec into stealth without losing skill points. So if you want to level with stealth to PA/Backstab or go to a BG you can do it.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:31 AM by Taniquetil
Cadebrennus wrote:
Sat 8 Jun 2019 6:32 PM
Don't forget that even though Blades is +10% damage Vs Mid leather/studded and neutral to all of Alb that Elf/Keens will have much lower Weaponskill with Blades than Norse/Dwarf/Briton/Highlanders resulting in more misses and more blocks/evades, along with less damage per hit.

Do you know the increase to miss/evade rate associate with this? I thought it was 1% difference?
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:50 AM by woody
Folobadob wrote:
Sun 9 Jun 2019 9:50 PM
Also, i forgot how autotrain works for stealth, if thats even a thing still? Do i now want to put anything into stealth before a certain level?

no need to worry about it - you automatically get the points, as if you had auto trained.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 5:15 PM by Cadebrennus
Taniquetil wrote:
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:31 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Sat 8 Jun 2019 6:32 PM
Don't forget that even though Blades is +10% damage Vs Mid leather/studded and neutral to all of Alb that Elf/Keens will have much lower Weaponskill with Blades than Norse/Dwarf/Briton/Highlanders resulting in more misses and more blocks/evades, along with less damage per hit.

Do you know the increase to miss/evade rate associate with this? I thought it was 1% difference?

http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/weaponskill_mechanics.html

I was incorrect in talking about misses, but lower WS does affect your ability to get through the opponent's defenses. Basically, an Elf or Keen Blades NS will get evaded more by a Norse SB and Brit Infil than vice versa.

"The chance to hit an opponent is approximately based upon your level and class compared to their level and class, as well as the hit bonus of the style the attacker is using, and the defensive modifier of the last style used by the defender. Weaponskill does not seem to play a role in the actual "miss," or "fumble" rates. The chance to block/parry/evade however is more complicated. Your WeapSkill rating is a composite of both your stats and your weapon spec. The defender also has a similar equivalent rating composed of his DEX and/or QUI scores and his shield/parry spec or Evade rating. The comparison of these 2 ratings is what determines the base chance to block/parry/evade. If you fight multiple opponents, this gets more complicated. With parry, the base chance is divided by the number of active melee opponents against you (if you had a 60% chance to parry, and are fighting 3 opponents, your chance is now 20% per attack). With a shield, the game will only allow you to block if your shield is rated to handle that number of opponents (small = 1, medium = 2, large = 3). Your chances to block will not be reduced, but if you are fighting more opponents than your shield can handle, it will not block for the excess opponents. So for parry, evade and blocking, weaponskill increases the proability of getting through the base defense of the defender."
Tue 18 Jun 2019 9:27 AM by DasBier
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 17 Jun 2019 5:15 PM
Taniquetil wrote:
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:31 AM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Sat 8 Jun 2019 6:32 PM
Don't forget that even though Blades is +10% damage Vs Mid leather/studded and neutral to all of Alb that Elf/Keens will have much lower Weaponskill with Blades than Norse/Dwarf/Briton/Highlanders resulting in more misses and more blocks/evades, along with less damage per hit.

Do you know the increase to miss/evade rate associate with this? I thought it was 1% difference?

http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/weaponskill_mechanics.html

I was incorrect in talking about misses, but lower WS does affect your ability to get through the opponent's defenses. Basically, an Elf or Keen Blades NS will get evaded more by a Norse SB and Brit Infil than vice versa.

"The chance to hit an opponent is approximately based upon your level and class compared to their level and class, as well as the hit bonus of the style the attacker is using, and the defensive modifier of the last style used by the defender. Weaponskill does not seem to play a role in the actual "miss," or "fumble" rates. The chance to block/parry/evade however is more complicated. Your WeapSkill rating is a composite of both your stats and your weapon spec. The defender also has a similar equivalent rating composed of his DEX and/or QUI scores and his shield/parry spec or Evade rating. The comparison of these 2 ratings is what determines the base chance to block/parry/evade. If you fight multiple opponents, this gets more complicated. With parry, the base chance is divided by the number of active melee opponents against you (if you had a 60% chance to parry, and are fighting 3 opponents, your chance is now 20% per attack). With a shield, the game will only allow you to block if your shield is rated to handle that number of opponents (small = 1, medium = 2, large = 3). Your chances to block will not be reduced, but if you are fighting more opponents than your shield can handle, it will not block for the excess opponents. So for parry, evade and blocking, weaponskill increases the proability of getting through the base defense of the defender."

just a great answere. Well done
Tue 18 Jun 2019 10:27 AM by Taniquetil
Cadebrennus wrote: I was incorrect in talking about misses, but lower WS does affect your ability to get through the opponent's defenses. Basically, an Elf or Keen Blades NS will get evaded more by a Norse SB and Brit Infil than vice versa.

"The chance to hit an opponent is approximately based upon your level and class compared to their level and class, as well as the hit bonus of the style the attacker is using, and the defensive modifier of the last style used by the defender. Weaponskill does not seem to play a role in the actual "miss," or "fumble" rates. The chance to block/parry/evade however is more complicated. Your WeapSkill rating is a composite of both your stats and your weapon spec. The defender also has a similar equivalent rating composed of his DEX and/or QUI scores and his shield/parry spec or Evade rating. The comparison of these 2 ratings is what determines the base chance to block/parry/evade. If you fight multiple opponents, this gets more complicated. With parry, the base chance is divided by the number of active melee opponents against you (if you had a 60% chance to parry, and are fighting 3 opponents, your chance is now 20% per attack). With a shield, the game will only allow you to block if your shield is rated to handle that number of opponents (small = 1, medium = 2, large = 3). Your chances to block will not be reduced, but if you are fighting more opponents than your shield can handle, it will not block for the excess opponents. So for parry, evade and blocking, weaponskill increases the proability of getting through the base defense of the defender."

Nice, so Augstr for a shade then has good benefits for WS and evade rate albeit not really increasing base damage that much?

Do you know the general numbers for the evade chance of a luri vs a norse or briton when the luri is bladespec vs pierce? I doubt its that much to make people reconsider speccing out of blades to pierce?
Tue 18 Jun 2019 5:07 PM by Cadebrennus
Taniquetil wrote:
Tue 18 Jun 2019 10:27 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: I was incorrect in talking about misses, but lower WS does affect your ability to get through the opponent's defenses. Basically, an Elf or Keen Blades NS will get evaded more by a Norse SB and Brit Infil than vice versa.

"The chance to hit an opponent is approximately based upon your level and class compared to their level and class, as well as the hit bonus of the style the attacker is using, and the defensive modifier of the last style used by the defender. Weaponskill does not seem to play a role in the actual "miss," or "fumble" rates. The chance to block/parry/evade however is more complicated. Your WeapSkill rating is a composite of both your stats and your weapon spec. The defender also has a similar equivalent rating composed of his DEX and/or QUI scores and his shield/parry spec or Evade rating. The comparison of these 2 ratings is what determines the base chance to block/parry/evade. If you fight multiple opponents, this gets more complicated. With parry, the base chance is divided by the number of active melee opponents against you (if you had a 60% chance to parry, and are fighting 3 opponents, your chance is now 20% per attack). With a shield, the game will only allow you to block if your shield is rated to handle that number of opponents (small = 1, medium = 2, large = 3). Your chances to block will not be reduced, but if you are fighting more opponents than your shield can handle, it will not block for the excess opponents. So for parry, evade and blocking, weaponskill increases the proability of getting through the base defense of the defender."

Nice, so Augstr for a shade then has good benefits for WS and evade rate albeit not really increasing base damage that much?

Do you know the general numbers for the evade chance of a luri vs a norse or briton when the luri is bladespec vs pierce? I doubt its that much to make people reconsider speccing out of blades to pierce?

Not sure since WS Vs evade is a comparison of the two numbers. All I can get are base WS and total chance to evade from the calculator in Charplan. I'm sure that somewhere out there someone has created a calculator that takes all of it into account. What I do is punch the numbers into Charplan and compare the outputs (make sure that the buff and template bonuses are correct).

I'm using version 1.6.5 because it's the closest to the current patch state of Phoenix:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/daoctb/files/DAoC-Charplan/
http://daoctb.sourceforge.net/Charplan_History.htm
http://daoctb.sourceforge.net/Charplan__EN.htm
Sat 22 Jun 2019 2:48 PM by Shadanwolf
Folobadob wrote:
Sun 9 Jun 2019 9:50 PM
Also, i forgot how autotrain works for stealth, if thats even a thing still? Do i now want to put anything into stealth before a certain level?

Stealth always auto trains
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