Critique my NS thinking - Phoenix Freeshard

Hey folks -

Thinking ahead to my NS hitting 50. Would love feedback on spec, gear, RAs, etc.

Spec
Leaning towards targeting a RR5 spec off the bat. I realize this means having gimpy stealth and envenom for a while. How's the following?

35 Stealth
39 Blades
24 CD
44 CS
35 Envenom

Gear
Will grab the Galla chest, Shadow Walker's blade, and SI neck. Fill in ROG jewelry.

What's the current thinking on weapon speeds? PA doesn't scale with weapon speed, right?

There was another thread that suggested ablatives on gear instead of heal procs due to disease. Is that still the current recommendation?

RAs
In rough order:
Longwind + tireless
Purge 2
Vanish
MoP 3
MoA 3
then what?

Appreciate your feedback and thoughts!

Fri 20 Mar 2020 3:51 PM by thirian24

In the realm of stealth fights, min/maxing is king. Why do anything that would hinder your performance at all? I think you get a couple free RA respects anyways. Plus stones are cheap. Go for a rr3 build. Then respec each full realm ding.

As far as your spec goes, that's the spec I run and I like it.

For RAs, IMHO, I'd go for lw/tireless then purge 4. Get that expensive RA point dump out of the way first since points are super easy to come by at low rank. Then work on your passives since even at lvl2 that's only 1 point each lvl. Run without vanish for awhile. Until you have purge 4 and some passives where you want them.

Edit: Galla chest is fine, Ablatives on all armor. Dex/qui debuffer is king.
Weapon speed it super important.

Good luck!

Fri 20 Mar 2020 6:33 PM by char

Thanks Hwat!

For RR3, the spec would be something like 44cs, 39blades, 37 stealth/env, 17cd. Do I need 52 composite weapon spec, or is that only a RR5+ thing?

For RA passives, is there consensus between MoP, MoA, aug str, aug qui, viper, etc on what is the best return for points?

For dex/qui debuff, are folks running a charge for that or is Shadow Walker's Blade the right approach? I've been assuming the right way to think about weapon speed choices is 1) get the fastest OH you can, then 2) get the slowest MH that still caps swing speed. For OH, I thought there was a 2.4 Galla LT blade but I can't seem to find it. There are certainly 2.5 ROG LT drops.

Fri 20 Mar 2020 8:29 PM by thirian24

I know cd seems low, but the ASR rebuff from 39 blades is super nice. You could always drop weapon down to comp 52 and bump up CD if you wanted. But imo, keep 39 blades and bump up CD as you lvl.

Also, the shadow walkers blade has the dex/qui debuff on it and it's 4.1 spd. So it's super nice.

The is a feather LT OH. It's called vine covered sickle. It's 2.9 speed. I also use that OH. You could go for the 2.5 crafted OH and work on capping swing speed.

As far as passives go, you could do it a few different ways.

Option1 - Cap swing speed and then start dumping points into MoPain and Aug str then whatever else you'd like.

Option2 - MoPain, Aug str then start working on swing speed.

Option3 - Put 1-2 points into each of these as you gain lvls, working on all of them simultaneously.

Tue 24 Mar 2020 9:04 AM by Chihuahua

Spec looks good - 44CS and 39 blade is quite mandatory.

I went first MOP5 on my NS and then Str5. Then toughness 5. Respecced to Viper5 and dropped the passives at rank 6L5 or something. Less survability but i kill more with Viper5.

Tue 24 Mar 2020 6:16 PM by char

Thanks Chihuahua!

RE: viper, are you fighting mostly stealthers or more a mix of targets? My sense is viper is more valuable the longer the fight, and less valuable than other passives in stealth on stealth action.

Tue 24 Mar 2020 7:49 PM by Cadebrennus

Keep in mind that every point below 50 base spec (Blades) will reduce the damage of your CS styles at 44 spec. I did some testing the other day and the difference is dramatic, thanks to the goofy "custom code" they have on this server.

Wed 25 Mar 2020 12:34 AM by char

Do you mind sharing the data from your testing Cadebrennus? I'd love to see data comparing damage with varied blades spec levels.

Wed 25 Mar 2020 3:01 AM by Freedomcall

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Mar 2020 7:49 PM
Keep in mind that every point below 50 base spec (Blades) will reduce the damage of your CS styles at 44 spec. I did some testing the other day and the difference is dramatic, thanks to the goofy "custom code" they have on this server.

I've seen some ppl arguing like that since server launch so I have done that test a year ago.
And it turned out to be false, any points above 52 composite weapon did nothing.

But if you prove it to be true with evidence(spreadsheet, screenshot, etc), I'll provide you with 2 full respec stones in any realm so that you won't lose any plat for the test.
Or if you promise to give me 2 full respec stones to prove it to be false, I'll do the test for you and upload evidence on the forum.
Either way you like.
I'll be looking forward to your response.

Wed 25 Mar 2020 7:30 AM by inoeth

dont believe any word cade says, he has tested everything! ;D

Wed 25 Mar 2020 8:44 AM by Cadebrennus

Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 3:01 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Mar 2020 7:49 PM
Keep in mind that every point below 50 base spec (Blades) will reduce the damage of your CS styles at 44 spec. I did some testing the other day and the difference is dramatic, thanks to the goofy "custom code" they have on this server.

I've seen some ppl arguing like that since server launch so I have done that test a year ago.
And it turned out to be false, any points above 52 composite weapon did nothing.

But if you prove it to be true with evidence(spreadsheet, screenshot, etc), I'll provide you with 2 full respec stones in any realm so that you won't lose any plat for the test.
Or if you promise to give me 2 full respec stones to prove it to be false, I'll do the test for you and upload evidence on the forum.
Either way you like.
I'll be looking forward to your response.

Better yet I'll provide you with the screenshots I already took. I'll dig them up and post them after I'm done with the remote work I have to do.

Wed 25 Mar 2020 8:46 AM by Cadebrennus

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 7:30 AM
dont believe any word cade says, he has tested everything! ;D

Better than being an ignorant troll who doesn't know anything yet still runs his mouth in the forums.

Wed 25 Mar 2020 9:08 AM by inoeth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 8:46 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 7:30 AM
dont believe any word cade says, he has tested everything! ;D

Better than being an ignorant troll who doesn't know anything yet still runs his mouth in the forums.

i know your "dramatic" test results LOL
still wondering why you are not one of the top tier rangers with your deep knowledge of dual wield mechanics

btw there is a new video from a paladin in the video section, he runs with 14 slash spec at rr3, according to your "tested" knowledge he must fail hard but actually he does pretty well.

all your "evidence" you till now was pretty much bullshit, still im looking forward to your new tests, its always good for nice laugh ;D

Wed 25 Mar 2020 11:00 AM by Cadebrennus

Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 3:01 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Mar 2020 7:49 PM
Keep in mind that every point below 50 base spec (Blades) will reduce the damage of your CS styles at 44 spec. I did some testing the other day and the difference is dramatic, thanks to the goofy "custom code" they have on this server.

I've seen some ppl arguing like that since server launch so I have done that test a year ago.
And it turned out to be false, any points above 52 composite weapon did nothing.

But if you prove it to be true with evidence(spreadsheet, screenshot, etc), I'll provide you with 2 full respec stones in any realm so that you won't lose any plat for the test.
Or if you promise to give me 2 full respec stones to prove it to be false, I'll do the test for you and upload evidence on the forum.
Either way you like.
I'll be looking forward to your response.

Here you go. Tested with 50 Blades and 30 CD for Blades Styles, then 30 Blades 50 CD for CD styles. I forgot to screenshot 50 Blades 50 CD when I tested CD styles, but only that spec equalled the 50 Blades damage with similar GRs.

.
.
.

.
.
.
Keep in mind that Brilliant Blade has a higher GR than Thunderstorm. That being said the anytimes and their follow-ups have identical GRs.

Wed 25 Mar 2020 11:51 AM by inoeth

so its 12 dmg difference while missing 9 skill points to be comp 52, wow thats massive!

so in numbers:

9 skill points=5% dmg
but you also gain 17% off hand chance
which results in 12% dmg increase while droping composite spec

im shocked! you were so right again! LOL

Wed 25 Mar 2020 12:49 PM by Cadebrennus

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 11:51 AM
so its 12 dmg difference while missing 9 skill points to be comp 52, wow thats massive!

so in numbers:

9 skill points=5% dmg
but you also gain 17% off hand chance
which results in 12% dmg increase while droping composite spec

im shocked! you were so right again! LOL

I'm still waiting for the day when you post something without sounding like a total piece of shit. I think we will all be waiting a long time.

Wed 25 Mar 2020 1:30 PM by Freedomcall

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 11:00 AM
Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 3:01 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Mar 2020 7:49 PM
Keep in mind that every point below 50 base spec (Blades) will reduce the damage of your CS styles at 44 spec. I did some testing the other day and the difference is dramatic, thanks to the goofy "custom code" they have on this server.

I've seen some ppl arguing like that since server launch so I have done that test a year ago.
And it turned out to be false, any points above 52 composite weapon did nothing.

But if you prove it to be true with evidence(spreadsheet, screenshot, etc), I'll provide you with 2 full respec stones in any realm so that you won't lose any plat for the test.
Or if you promise to give me 2 full respec stones to prove it to be false, I'll do the test for you and upload evidence on the forum.
Either way you like.
I'll be looking forward to your response.

Here you go. Tested with 50 Blades and 30 CD for Blades Styles, then 30 Blades 50 CD for CD styles. I forgot to screenshot 50 Blades 50 CD when I tested CD styles, but only that spec equalled the 50 Blades damage with similar GRs.

Keep in mind that Brilliant Blade has a higher GR than Thunderstorm. That being said the anytimes and their follow-ups have identical GRs.

Hm, I thought you were trying to say that every point above 52 composite spec (Blades) increases dmg on CS/CD styles until you reach 50 base spec (Blades)?
If I understood your initial statement correctly, those screenshots are irrelevant because you didn't reach 52 composite blades spec with 30Blades/50CD, which means your CD style dmgs didn't reach the cap yet.
So, it is very natural to show lower damages compared to those of 50Blades/30CD.

If you want to prove CS/CD style damage is still affected by every point on blades exceeding 52 composite spec,
you should compare between, for example, 1.blades 39+13(comp 52) CD 50+13 and 2.blades 50+13(comp 63) CD 50+13

Anyway, I'll also attach the spreadsheet of my testing a year ago on a dummy for the OP.

Working as intended: no dmg increase on garrote/PA once I reached 52 comp on my primary weapon(piercing).

Wed 25 Mar 2020 2:05 PM by Cadebrennus

Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 1:30 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 11:00 AM
Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 3:01 AM
I've seen some ppl arguing like that since server launch so I have done that test a year ago.
And it turned out to be false, any points above 52 composite weapon did nothing.

But if you prove it to be true with evidence(spreadsheet, screenshot, etc), I'll provide you with 2 full respec stones in any realm so that you won't lose any plat for the test.
Or if you promise to give me 2 full respec stones to prove it to be false, I'll do the test for you and upload evidence on the forum.
Either way you like.
I'll be looking forward to your response.

Here you go. Tested with 50 Blades and 30 CD for Blades Styles, then 30 Blades 50 CD for CD styles. I forgot to screenshot 50 Blades 50 CD when I tested CD styles, but only that spec equalled the 50 Blades damage with similar GRs.

Keep in mind that Brilliant Blade has a higher GR than Thunderstorm. That being said the anytimes and their follow-ups have identical GRs.

Hm, I thought you were trying to say that every point above 52 composite spec (Blades) increases dmg on CS/CD styles until you reach 50 base spec (Blades)?
If I understood your initial statement correctly, those screenshots are irrelevant because you didn't reach 52 composite blades spec with 30Blades/50CD, which means your CD style dmgs didn't reach the cap yet.
So, it is very natural to show lower damages compared to those of 50Blades/30CD.

If you want to prove CS/CD style damage is still affected by every point on blades exceeding 52 composite spec,
you should compare between, for example, 1.blades 39+13(comp 52) CD 50+13 and 2.blades 50+13(comp 63) CD 50+13

Anyway, I'll also attach the spreadsheet of my testing a year ago on a dummy for the OP.

Working as intended: no dmg increase on garrote/PA once I reached 52 comp on my primary weapon(piercing).

I think it was 39 Blades/50 CD I was testing. I'll double-check tomorrow just to be sure.

Wed 25 Mar 2020 2:55 PM by inoeth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 12:49 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 11:51 AM
so its 12 dmg difference while missing 9 skill points to be comp 52, wow thats massive!

so in numbers:

9 skill points=5% dmg
but you also gain 17% off hand chance
which results in 12% dmg increase while droping composite spec

im shocked! you were so right again! LOL

I'm still waiting for the day when you post something without sounding like a total piece of shit. I think we will all be waiting a long time.

i can exactly tell you when that will be: the day you stop claiming false stuff from your "testings"

Wed 25 Mar 2020 7:00 PM by Cadebrennus

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 2:55 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 12:49 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 11:51 AM
so its 12 dmg difference while missing 9 skill points to be comp 52, wow thats massive!

so in numbers:

9 skill points=5% dmg
but you also gain 17% off hand chance
which results in 12% dmg increase while droping composite spec

im shocked! you were so right again! LOL

I'm still waiting for the day when you post something without sounding like a total piece of shit. I think we will all be waiting a long time.

i can exactly tell you when that will be: the day you stop claiming false stuff from your "testings"

That day has long come and gone, yet here you are still being a shitbag.

Wed 25 Mar 2020 7:11 PM by char

Hey folks - Ad hominem attacks don't add anything to the discussion.

Thanks to everyone who shared data from testing. Let's focus on data and what we can learn from it.

Wed 25 Mar 2020 8:04 PM by inoeth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 7:00 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 2:55 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 12:49 PM
I'm still waiting for the day when you post something without sounding like a total piece of shit. I think we will all be waiting a long time.

i can exactly tell you when that will be: the day you stop claiming false stuff from your "testings"

That day has long come and gone, yet here you are still being a shitbag.

I think it was 39 Blades/50 CD I was testing. I'll double-check tomorrow just to be sure.

dude you dont even know what you are testing.
you hit the dummys and then claim you have testet certain ridicolous spec and its proven to be uber now, yet you comparing apples with pears all the time.
all you do is literally throwing around bad advice. stop it!

Thu 26 Mar 2020 8:47 PM by Cadebrennus

Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 1:30 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 11:00 AM
Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Wed 25 Mar 2020 3:01 AM
I've seen some ppl arguing like that since server launch so I have done that test a year ago.
And it turned out to be false, any points above 52 composite weapon did nothing.

But if you prove it to be true with evidence(spreadsheet, screenshot, etc), I'll provide you with 2 full respec stones in any realm so that you won't lose any plat for the test.
Or if you promise to give me 2 full respec stones to prove it to be false, I'll do the test for you and upload evidence on the forum.
Either way you like.
I'll be looking forward to your response.

Here you go. Tested with 50 Blades and 30 CD for Blades Styles, then 30 Blades 50 CD for CD styles. I forgot to screenshot 50 Blades 50 CD when I tested CD styles, but only that spec equalled the 50 Blades damage with similar GRs.

Keep in mind that Brilliant Blade has a higher GR than Thunderstorm. That being said the anytimes and their follow-ups have identical GRs.

Hm, I thought you were trying to say that every point above 52 composite spec (Blades) increases dmg on CS/CD styles until you reach 50 base spec (Blades)?
If I understood your initial statement correctly, those screenshots are irrelevant because you didn't reach 52 composite blades spec with 30Blades/50CD, which means your CD style dmgs didn't reach the cap yet.
So, it is very natural to show lower damages compared to those of 50Blades/30CD.

If you want to prove CS/CD style damage is still affected by every point on blades exceeding 52 composite spec,
you should compare between, for example, 1.blades 39+13(comp 52) CD 50+13 and 2.blades 50+13(comp 63) CD 50+13

Anyway, I'll also attach the spreadsheet of my testing a year ago on a dummy for the OP.

Working as intended: no dmg increase on garrote/PA once I reached 52 comp on my primary weapon(piercing).

I retested and yup, a Blades spec of 39 (well above 52 composite) with 50 CD does indeed yield the same damage per hit with equal growth rates as 50 Blades styles do. Thanks for pointing out the error, since I remembered it incorrectly from my tests a few days ago. Wyrd Spec does work here. The rear Blades chain is superior to the rear CD chain damage-wise (just as it was on Live) but doesn't have the rear snare component that it later had on Live.

Mon 30 Mar 2020 8:14 PM by char

Couple more gear questions:

What's the best damage add charge for Hib? Can you use that from inv or does it have to be equipped?

Is there a str/con debuff blade available to Hib?

You can't use offensive debuffs (like d/q debuff) from inv, correct?

For items that give a d/q buff (e.g. pookha mantle, opal of quick and dead), do those stack with stats pots?

Ring of Tarka'oz seems pretty great. Why don't I see it in more templates?

Anything I can skimp on in a temp? Heat resist?

Thanks!

Tue 31 Mar 2020 12:20 PM by Saroi

char wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 8:14 PM
Couple more gear questions:
What's the best damage add charge for Hib? Can you use that from inv or does it have to be equipped?
Is there a str/con debuff blade available to Hib?
You can't use offensive debuffs (like d/q debuff) from inv, correct?
For items that give a d/q buff (e.g. pookha mantle, opal of quick and dead), do those stack with stats pots?
Ring of Tarka'oz seems pretty great. Why don't I see it in more templates?
Anything I can skimp on in a temp? Heat resist?

Thanks!

Make a level 1 MP item and put alchemy damage add charge on it. You can use it in your inventory. Is really cheap.

No, offensive debuff charges and damage charges must be equipped.

At the beginning of phoenix buff items used to be 75 str/con or 75 dex/quick. This has been removed and all buff items are the same as the pots. They do not stack and are useless now.

Most use Rog items, because there can be some pretty good Rogs with awesome stats that are way better than named items.

You should try to make a temp with everything capped and weaponless but that will be most expensive. If you can't make one yet, you either have several options. Have some lower resists, or make a temp with weapon stats. Like use the Stats from the dex/quick debuff sword and use 4.2 crafted weapons with a DD proc to switch as soon as the debuff is applied.

You can also make sc without envenom and put on 1 or 2 extra items with just envenom but you will have to swap everytime you want to apply poisons on your weapons and ofc don't forget to swap make your normal sc.

Tue 31 Mar 2020 4:56 PM by gotwqqd

Get rid of all these /use items

Tue 31 Mar 2020 10:54 PM by Cadebrennus

Feather items:
Two Tark rings,
Frontier Cloak

Quest item:
SI necklace

With those four items you're halfway through the jewelry requirements in a temp. All that's left are two bracers, a gem, and a belt. Those aren't too hard to find on the player merchants, between 60 and 80ish utility. You can then finish with the Galla chest piece + crafted suit or go all crafted (including the chest piece).

Thu 9 Apr 2020 8:47 PM by char

With the MoP change, are folks favoring viper now?

Wed 15 Apr 2020 9:36 PM by flidias

I would like to know this too.

Thu 16 Apr 2020 12:34 AM by flidias

Does running haste buffs work as good as MoA?

Thu 16 Apr 2020 7:14 AM by Cadebrennus

flidias wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Apr 2020 12:34 AM
Does running haste buffs work as good as MoA?

I would think that you could just plug this into a calculator and see for yourself. There are a few calculators online.