Some love for VWs? :)

#1
Hey all,

I believe it was shortly after VWs were introduced on the live servers when they overhauled the scythe styles, which is really what this post is about. I was wondering how realistic it would be to implement those scythe styles on Phoenix, i.e. making grasping roots a pbaoe root, with conflagration as a follow up, and having blizzard blade in a 2 part style chain instead of 3.

After reaching r11 and lone enforcer on my VW on live, and then playing a VW here on Phoenix, I can certainly see why they decided to overhaul the scythe line. I’m sure there are some folks out there that would roll their eyes at a 2 part style chain for blizzard blade, but it’s a level 29 style, so, without some decent MoF, it will get resisted quite a bit.

Would the devs every consider this, and how would the community feel about this?

Re: Some love for VWs? :)

#2
Front Ae root and conflagration would be a bit too much i think, VWs in the need of a up, but that could be a bit excessive at this historic stage of DAOC, imo.

Two-style side chain, why not, would still be often resisted which compensates a lot the theorical burst, could be good change for them, and instead of front chain i'd just add a to-hit bonus to VW's anytime as a beginning, currently by far their worst flaw.

Anyway they clearly need something to make them attractive for PuG and casual players.

Re: Some love for VWs? :)

#4
Keelia wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:11 pm
Man if there was only a hib melee group that was extremely successful with a VW in their group.......
You mean the VW who almost doesn't play anymore ?

Or the one sticking with BG for AFK RPs ? i don't see your active sucessful VW, who is this ?

Re: Some love for VWs? :)

#5
Well I don't know how things are here on Phoenix, but I used to play VW since SI came out and until a few weeks into ToA. And yeah, my group was quite successful, and I like to think that I wasn't a complete liability.

Really, you don't need anything else than Damaging Grasp. Spam it, and use Stunning Blade as a back up. I (used to) see too many people trying to pull off Blizzard Blade, even though it often gets resisted, breaks CCs, and may even simply do less damage than 3 Damaging Grasp on buffed targets. The only situation where you could afford using it is when for some reason you're not in an assist, and hitting a target that has weak defense capabilities. Otherwise, just forget it and exploit Damaging Grasp huge GR instead.

The other thing that's worth mentioning is that all buffs are equally important to the VW, but thanks to pots and higher conc I suppose this isn't much of a problem here. Back in the days if you didn't have one or two buffs bots, the VW may not be able to receive Acuity or D/Q, completely killing one of its hybrid aspect.

Also don't waste points on Det.

Personally I really don't think the VW needs a buff. Maybe something to make it more desirable in full groups, but it shouldn't affect its global power level. Or just less costly spells / higher mana pool maybe.

It's another topic but, thing that bothers me isn't that most of the Scythe line is unusable (after all this is the case for most weapon lines), but the fact that the Thane got that huge buff on his DD (less mana cost, 33 more delve, -0.6 on the cast time), making it as good as the VW lifetap under acuity buff.
Last edited by bm01 on Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Some love for VWs? :)

#6
VWs are one of the strongest classes here and probably one of most versatile and enjoyable to play, Even with the old style system you will win most your 1v1 fights and still bring a lot to an 8man group with your damage ,backstun ,and disease proc. Even in keep defense you will kill people from a range.
VWs were always strong, people just didn't take the time to make one or actually learn the class. When they got upgraded to the new styles and abilities they became border line OPd. The Only think I would like to see is the anytime style or taunt style being upgraded. Other than that I love my 3 style chains, they do a lot of damage.

Re: Some love for VWs? :)

#7
Pirhana7 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:17 pm
VWs are one of the strongest classes here and probably one of most versatile and enjoyable to play, Even with the old style system you will win most your 1v1 fights and still bring a lot to an 8man group with your damage ,backstun ,and disease proc. Even in keep defense you will kill people from a range.
VWs were always strong, people just didn't take the time to make one or actually learn the class. When they got upgraded to the new styles and abilities they became border line OPd. The Only think I would like to see is the anytime style or taunt style being upgraded. Other than that I love my 3 style chains, they do a lot of damage.
What? vw are good 1v1 here? I don't think I've lost to a vw with my scout yet and I struggle in 1v1 all the time. I don't see vw being able to beat any stealthers 1v1 tbh. The VW population supports my statement I believe.

Re: Some love for VWs? :)

#8
I am not exactly sure of how you could even win a 1vs1 with a scout versus a reasonnably mediocre VW tbh ! Well there are lots of potatoes here on Phoenix so everything's possible (i still remember Lunenoire maximum over failing 2 times in a row against my eld when i was 2L4 or that skald who imezzed and anytime+double DD my chanter's pet...) but VW were some kind of a total scourge for archers back in the days, and here they have a very strong package against that type of class.

Well, ofc, if the guy didn't take purge and Ichor but went for Deter first, then... Hey.

Re: Some love for VWs? :)

#9
Leandrys wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:36 pm
I am not exactly sure of how you could even win a 1vs1 with a scout versus a reasonnably mediocre VW tbh ! Well there are lots of potatoes here on Phoenix so everything's possible (i still remember Lunenoire maximum over failing 2 times in a row against my eld when i was 2L4 or that skald who imezzed and anytime+double DD my chanter's pet...) but VW were some kind of a total scourge for archers back in the days, and here they have a very strong package against that type of class.

Well, ofc, if the guy didn't take purge and Ichor but went for Deter first, then... Hey.
I only fought VW twice on my hunter and it was before the buffs to BC but they totally wrecked me. Parried all arrows with this ability and then just meleed me down. On my second fight I tried kiting.. but well.. I forgot they have insta snare and insta dot.
Guild: Midnight Sun
Torgen, Thane, 50
Snipeymcgimp, Hunter, 50
Thorgen, Shaman, 3x

Re: Some love for VWs? :)

#10
Milksteak wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:57 pm
What? vw are good 1v1 here? I don't think I've lost to a vw with my scout yet and I struggle in 1v1 all the time. I don't see vw being able to beat any stealthers 1v1 tbh. The VW population supports my statement I believe.
Your logic is flawed, there are very few Champions too despite it being the best 1v1 class. At the time I'm writing this, there are 9 VWs and 13 Champions.
Personally I'd gladly play one (again) if Thane's DD wasn't 50% stronger than what it was at that patch level back in the days. Instead, well I just play a Thane.
But even if we put that aside, all of hib melee classes are somewhat shunned. 25 BMs, 16 Heroes...
You said you never lost against a VW. That's probably because you never found one that knows how to block arrows or that put points in MoC.