Albion is the worst realm.....change my mind!

Started 13 Mar 2019
by Critical13
in Albion
I have been playing for about 2 months now and I think it's safe to say that Albion is the worst realm...in terms of RvR.

This isn't meant to bash our realm, but to identify the issues that cause us to be the worst.

What are some problems that we as Albs face and is there a possible solution?
Wed 13 Mar 2019 7:24 AM by Dindelion
Sorry, I won't change your mind, because I agree with this statement.
Albion has the worst group flexibility by far, which pretty much means half the class / specializations sucks. In full group you can't play anything else than a body train. Tanks groups simply don't exist here. You can't really play a pbaoe group, because that means you have to get a ice wizard in there lol. In duos / smallmen I don't think minstrel + X is better than Skald + X or Bard + X. Obviously I'm talking about fights with equally skilled players.

Happy to get my mind changed too though.
Wed 13 Mar 2019 7:29 AM by Pao
Nobody will change your mind because its true. Albion is THE WORST.
Wed 13 Mar 2019 9:06 AM by teiloh
Alb is different from 1.65 Alb in a number of very significant ways:

1. NNF RAs with no ToA in OF. On live there was never a time when we had homogenized RAs on OF, w/o ToA to boot
2. Pet charm. Almost all mainstay charmable pets are currently in a weaker state as data is being collected and updated.
3. Pet DoTs. Pet dots used to interrupt every tick and this is something Minstrels, Sorcs, Necros and Cabalists took advantage of. It was more a feature than a bug, as Mythic acknowledged it several times without changing it, and even added in abilities that took advantage of this feature.
Wed 13 Mar 2019 10:04 AM by Greenangel
This is realm vs realm war and Albion tank groups can work with support of a caster group.

There not suppose go out 8 man there suppose go out with anthour 8 man group.

This is not 8 man game stop trying make it 8 man game.

Best Albion tank groups in past had 0 casters not even a Sorcerer.
The Sorcerers would be in caster group and there would be two them and two groups work togeather.

2 groups Albion is way it works the 8 man idiots don't get that

We used have Thergist in caster group and Friar in tank group who had swap back and forth for resists and group blade turn damage add haste buffa which was anoying part.

Yep 2 groups working togeather team work in realm war means Albion can be powerful.

I'm afraid Albion is the point this is not 8 man vs 8 man game
Wed 13 Mar 2019 11:16 AM by Dindelion
Greenangel wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 10:04 AM
This is realm vs realm war and Albion tank groups can work with support of a caster group.

There not suppose go out 8 man there suppose go out with anthour 8 man group.

This is not 8 man game stop trying make it 8 man game.

Best Albion tank groups in past had 0 casters not even a Sorcerer.
The Sorcerers would be in caster group and there would be two them and two groups work togeather.

2 groups Albion is way it works the 8 man idiots don't get that

We used have Thergist in caster group and Friar in tank group who had swap back and forth for resists and group blade turn damage add haste buffa which was anoying part.

Yep 2 groups working togeather team work in realm war means Albion can be powerful.

I'm afraid Albion is the point this is not 8 man vs 8 man game

Nobody's really talking about 8v8 specifically here. I don't like 8v8, and people don't complain about 8v8. The thing is, the game limits you to 8 people each group, so you have to compose with that limit .You can't share mandatories buffs / songs / heals between groups, a lot of spells work and target a group, not outside. So in the end you have to make it work in a group of 8, no matter how many other groups you actually play with.

It's kinda funny if "get a group of 12" is the answer to "albion' is the worst realm", it says a lot.
Wed 13 Mar 2019 1:07 PM by FFpheonix
The other Realms are better at many things, when compared to what and Alb group can offer. Friar, Necromancer, Reaver, and Paladin do not make it into most Alb RvR groups. The main reason is the MIN/MAX of efficiency and utility per class and the 8 member group limit. Neither Hib nor Mid need to make a decision to leave Mezz out of their groups, that's a huge plus for them when forming a group.
Wed 13 Mar 2019 2:34 PM by Cami
I think this is a subjective impression from the Albion point of view, the Hibernian sun is brighter and the Midgard snow is cleaner, of course!
Where is a good Midgard setup easier to build than an Albion group? Hibernia might need one less class to meet the absolute minimal requirements, but this doesn't mean, that you can fill up with anything. I just assume, that each single group slot is under heavy min-max discussions in all 3 realms and black-white opinions about the one and only group setup are not restricted to one realm.
Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:12 PM by Ceen
Cami wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 2:34 PM
I think this is a subjective impression from the Albion point of view, the Hibernian sun is brighter and the Midgard snow is cleaner, of course!
Where is a good Midgard setup easier to build than an Albion group? Hibernia might need one less class to meet the absolute minimal requirements, but this doesn't mean, that you can fill up with anything. I just assume, that each single group slot is under heavy min-max discussions in all 3 realms and black-white opinions about the one and only group setup are not restricted to one realm.
It's because of Albion gossip #1:
We need to run caba grp and can not form grps easily.
Let's face it none of the /region ae invite grps can stand a 8vs8, so if they would admit that point a alb grp is easy to build.

Cleric, Cleric, Sorc, Minstrel + dps

Just the same as

Druid, Druid, Bard
Healer, Healer, Shaman, Skald

"Celerity" or "hib has more heals" what ever is just a minor deviation if they accept that they simple can not win and should not build for 8vs8 ops:
The task zone is out there waiting for Albion
Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:30 PM by Yokahu
Ceen wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:12 PM
Cami wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 2:34 PM
I think this is a subjective impression from the Albion point of view, the Hibernian sun is brighter and the Midgard snow is cleaner, of course!
Where is a good Midgard setup easier to build than an Albion group? Hibernia might need one less class to meet the absolute minimal requirements, but this doesn't mean, that you can fill up with anything. I just assume, that each single group slot is under heavy min-max discussions in all 3 realms and black-white opinions about the one and only group setup are not restricted to one realm.
It's because of Albion gossip #1:
We need to run caba grp and can not form grps easily.
Let's face it none of the /region ae invite grps can stand a 8vs8, so if they would admit that point a alb grp is easy to build.

Cleric, Cleric, Sorc, Minstrel + dps

Just the same as

Druid, Druid, Bard
Healer, Healer, Shaman, Skald

"Celerity" or "hib has more heals" what ever is just a minor deviation if they accept that they simple can not win and should not build for 8vs8 ops:
The task zone is out there waiting for Albion

Albion will need a pally in their group setup for stamina regen.

So, Cleric, Cleric, Sorc, Minstrel, Pally + dps which is not the same as the other realms... just saying
Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:36 PM by Cami
Yokahu wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:30 PM
Albion will need a pally in their group setup for stamina regen.
Maybe you should play Albion RvR (on Phoenix) before providing your feedback?
Wed 13 Mar 2019 4:53 PM by Yokahu
Cami wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:36 PM
Yokahu wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:30 PM
Albion will need a pally in their group setup for stamina regen.
Maybe you should play Albion RvR (on Phoenix) before providing your feedback?

What are you talking about? Please elaborate.

Are u referring to the endu pots that when combined with tireless and longwind are as good as a pally’s endu chant for perma sprint? Have you tried to sprint as a melee class while styling? Or are you part of the caster train?
Wed 13 Mar 2019 9:04 PM by Iuppiter
Guess Hib also needs menta for power regen then
Wed 13 Mar 2019 9:58 PM by Laadna
Yokahu wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:30 PM
Albion will need a pally in their group setup for stamina regen.
Paladin makes the party more comfortable for tanks, no more. I play reaver and when i'm close to ooe due to sprint, slam and leviathan, I just use a endu pot (not a regen, a healing one). Which is extremely rare, because I get slammed and root enough to pick up some endurance...

I've never ever seen people asking for a paladin for RvR. If we can pick one it's okay, as any other class is okay, but nobody specifically asks for a paladin.

Albion as it works on phoenix needs 4 people to make groups viable (2x cleric, sorcerer, minstrel). This is not the main issue.

The problem as I see it is that lots of people are acting like self-centered kids, probably considering a game is just to have immediate and personal fun (I guess they might be quite disapointed if they actually do some RvR). Lots of people running solo from apk, not even answering calls to set up a group. Lots of people considering using discord or asking for a main assist is pgm roxxor elit stuff. Lots of people not willing to start making groups, and picky enough to join only if 7 people are waiting for them. Lots of clerics with purple spec buffs (whining that they can't buff half the party, and healing shit if you're wondering). Lots of people using discord to talk in german/italian/whatever while english is the only language everybody understands. Lots of guilds with very few 50 characters online (save for infiltrators and farming toons), thus making building groups quite hard. Lots of people overlistening to current meta and playing tri-spec cabalists and stoicism tanks.

I'm really curious about how this stuff is going on other realms.
Wed 13 Mar 2019 10:02 PM by antiflagdan
Yokahu wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 4:53 PM
Cami wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:36 PM
Yokahu wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:30 PM
Albion will need a pally in their group setup for stamina regen.
Maybe you should play Albion RvR (on Phoenix) before providing your feedback?

What are you talking about? Please elaborate.

Are u referring to the endu pots that when combined with tireless and longwind are as good as a pally’s endu chant for perma sprint? Have you tried to sprint as a melee class while styling? Or are you part of the caster train?


I haven't seen a single melee oriented alb group on here. Pally's have a rough time getting groups.

My group isn't ideal/optimal but we have fun. We run 2 cler, 2 sorc, wiz, theu, cab, mins. IDK why they wanted me to make a wiz, because we totally need a melee peel pal/arms type. Stuns are lacking :c.

I personally have a huge bone bone for melee groups so I would make a Merc or Arms or Pala in a heartbeat but nobody wants to run alb melee.
Thu 14 Mar 2019 2:59 AM by Frieza
the overall biggest problem with Alb is there is no collective goal.

I run out to rvr, and i see a 6 man, but they dont want me (cleric) because they only want their guildies (Golem guild im looking at you - biggest eliteists/ stupidity ive ever seen, youll run out with no clerics to keep it a guild group? lol).

I keep seeing this across the realm too, even when it makes sense! guys just group everyone for a few weeks and watch how we dominate.....its very simple
Thu 14 Mar 2019 9:25 AM by Luluko
Dindelion wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 7:24 AM
Sorry, I won't change your mind, because I agree with this statement.
Albion has the worst group flexibility by far, which pretty much means half the class / specializations sucks. In full group you can't play anything else than a body train. Tanks groups simply don't exist here. You can't really play a pbaoe group, because that means you have to get a ice wizard in there lol. In duos / smallmen I don't think minstrel + X is better than Skald + X or Bard + X. Obviously I'm talking about fights with equally skilled players.

Happy to get my mind changed too though.
always depends what you fight minstrel with pet and casteable mezz can interrupt a little better while skald is stuck with 30sec cd mezz and that has like 20% resist rate without mof so if its resistet you cant mezz anybody anymore while minstrel can continue to cast mezz which is also longer. The weapon damage is less so a skald + warry can assist down stealthers a lot more easiely and even manage to kill other tanks in slam sure. But when skald/warry are up vs decent casters/sups mezz from the minstrel and pet are worth a lot more. A well played minstrel/sorc which know how to kite and use snare styles correctly can kill a lot of stuff, the downsite is you rely on cc a lot so anything with det and purge will be a problem for that duo. But casters/supporter grps are easy pickings if you dont catch ns. But its often just the player behind those classes, a bad minst will waste stun on a det class and make him imun to the slam of the tank right next to him... while a good minstrel saves the stun for sup/casters and can get backsnares off or mezzes when he is free.
Thu 14 Mar 2019 9:52 AM by Raec
First of all, i dont play here just lurk around the forum and watch youtube povs.

Talking about alb caster group id like to see a setup like this:

Minst
Arms or reaver
Cleri x2
Theurg x2 one with red bt , one ice/earth
Sorc mind
Wiz matter ice

Wiz caster main assist and cold train 50% debuff with theurgs assist. Sorc focus just on control. Double baod , many pets, stacking bt (does it work here?).
Gimme your thoughts
Thu 14 Mar 2019 10:03 AM by Sepplord
Yokahu wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 4:53 PM
Cami wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:36 PM
Yokahu wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:30 PM
Albion will need a pally in their group setup for stamina regen.
Maybe you should play Albion RvR (on Phoenix) before providing your feedback?

What are you talking about? Please elaborate.

Are u referring to the endu pots that when combined with tireless and longwind are as good as a pally’s endu chant for perma sprint? Have you tried to sprint as a melee class while styling? Or are you part of the caster train?

have you tried permanently staying within 1000range of your shaman so you actually get the endbuff?
Thu 14 Mar 2019 12:43 PM by Yokahu
Sepplord wrote:
Thu 14 Mar 2019 10:03 AM
Yokahu wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 4:53 PM
Cami wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:36 PM
Maybe you should play Albion RvR (on Phoenix) before providing your feedback?

What are you talking about? Please elaborate.

Are u referring to the endu pots that when combined with tireless and longwind are as good as a pally’s endu chant for perma sprint? Have you tried to sprint as a melee class while styling? Or are you part of the caster train?

have you tried permanently staying within 1000range of your shaman so you actually get the endbuff?

Oh look, a midgarian complaining that their core group have a class that buffs endurance lol.

Dude, you don’t have to be within 1000 range all the time... you won’t instantly run out of stamina if you leave the shammy’s range for a while. At least your core group have endu buff to support your melee classes.

Try Albion melee group, hmmk? Oh, it’s non existent... nvm
Thu 14 Mar 2019 12:46 PM by Cami
Raec wrote:
Thu 14 Mar 2019 9:52 AM
Wiz caster main assist and cold train 50% debuff with theurgs assist.

Ran that setup a couple of times. It definitely works in general. Is it competitive? I do not know. Given that it is 90% Zerg action on Phoenix, I cannot comment on 8v8 as there were way too less fights and those weren't close results (in both directions), so the setup did not matter there.
Compared to a body-debuff setup, you are missing out on disease and some damage with the sorc not being able to nuke on a debuffed target. Having just one instead of two sorcs reduces winning the mez duel from 95% to maybe 65% which is noticeable, too.
Even with 2 Theurgs being huge, it might be a good alternative to run with Reaver and Arms, just one Theurg. This would be stronger versus melee groups. Note: Reaver Leviatan proc is cold based, so you still have quite some burst damage.
Thu 14 Mar 2019 12:50 PM by Laadna
I'm pretty sure you guys are misleading comparing classes and abilities :
Ceen wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:12 PM
It's because of Albion gossip #1:
We need to run caba grp and can not form grps easily.
Let's face it none of the /region ae invite grps can stand a 8vs8, so if they would admit that point a alb grp is easy to build.

Cleric, Cleric, Sorc, Minstrel + dps

Just the same as

Druid, Druid, Bard
Healer, Healer, Shaman, Skald

The issue is not technical, it's about behaviors and ways of thinking.

Even if it was technical, the topic would drawn in endless trolls between solo, duo, smallman, 8v8 and zerg vs zerg. Because you cannot balance the game for each of these ways of playing.
Thu 14 Mar 2019 1:29 PM by Sepplord
Yokahu wrote:
Thu 14 Mar 2019 12:43 PM
Oh look, a midgarian complaining that their core group have a class that buffs endurance lol.

I wasn't complaining.
Don't assume negativity in every post that isn't blowing sugar up your a***
Thu 14 Mar 2019 2:06 PM by Yokahu
Sepplord wrote:
Thu 14 Mar 2019 1:29 PM
Yokahu wrote:
Thu 14 Mar 2019 12:43 PM
Oh look, a midgarian complaining that their core group have a class that buffs endurance lol.

I wasn't complaining.
Don't assume negativity in every post that isn't blowing sugar up your a***

I sometimes forget Midgardians are too sensitive...
Will dial it down.
Thu 14 Mar 2019 2:11 PM by Sepplord
Yokahu wrote:
Thu 14 Mar 2019 2:06 PM
Sepplord wrote:
Thu 14 Mar 2019 1:29 PM
Yokahu wrote:
Thu 14 Mar 2019 12:43 PM
Oh look, a midgarian complaining that their core group have a class that buffs endurance lol.

I wasn't complaining.
Don't assume negativity in every post that isn't blowing sugar up your a***

I sometimes forget Midgardians are too sensitive...
Will dial it down.

quite ironic answer considering this thread is about albion being the weakest
(and again you are assuming that somehow your comments hurt my feelings or something. I am just explaining your misconceptions, so maybe future discussions aren't derailed as often by comments like yours)

EDIT: took out the part where i mistakenly accused Yokahu of being pro-change
Thu 14 Mar 2019 3:32 PM by Yokahu
Sepplord wrote:
Thu 14 Mar 2019 2:11 PM
Yokahu wrote:
Thu 14 Mar 2019 2:06 PM
Sepplord wrote:
Thu 14 Mar 2019 1:29 PM
I wasn't complaining.
Don't assume negativity in every post that isn't blowing sugar up your a***

I sometimes forget Midgardians are too sensitive...
Will dial it down.

quite ironic answer considering you are the one arguing pro change, and this thread is about albion being the weakest
(and again you are assuming that somehow your comments hurt my feelings or something. I am just explaining your misconceptions, so maybe future discussions aren't derailed as often by comments like yours)

Haha my arguments are not “pro change”... read carefully before replying... mid

/mic drop
Thu 14 Mar 2019 4:23 PM by Sepplord
Yokahu wrote:
Thu 14 Mar 2019 3:32 PM
Sepplord wrote:
Thu 14 Mar 2019 2:11 PM
Yokahu wrote:
Thu 14 Mar 2019 2:06 PM
I sometimes forget Midgardians are too sensitive...
Will dial it down.

quite ironic answer considering you are the one arguing pro change, and this thread is about albion being the weakest
(and again you are assuming that somehow your comments hurt my feelings or something. I am just explaining your misconceptions, so maybe future discussions aren't derailed as often by comments like yours)

Haha my arguments are not “pro change”... read carefully before replying... mid

/mic drop

yeah, i guess i should have reread all your comments before adding that to the irony list. I made a mistake. I guess i will have to correct my post after your uncovering

Here's your "gotcha" moment, enjoy:




Now that we have settled that, the sooner we start seeing each others as players of phoenix, instead of mids / hibs / albs, the sooner we might actually make progress.
And if you could please not drop the mic pls, those things are expensive. That'll be nice
Thu 14 Mar 2019 11:21 PM by Falken
Ceen wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:12 PM
Cami wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 2:34 PM
I think this is a subjective impression from the Albion point of view, the Hibernian sun is brighter and the Midgard snow is cleaner, of course!
Where is a good Midgard setup easier to build than an Albion group? Hibernia might need one less class to meet the absolute minimal requirements, but this doesn't mean, that you can fill up with anything. I just assume, that each single group slot is under heavy min-max discussions in all 3 realms and black-white opinions about the one and only group setup are not restricted to one realm.
It's because of Albion gossip #1:
We need to run caba grp and can not form grps easily.
Let's face it none of the /region ae invite grps can stand a 8vs8, so if they would admit that point a alb grp is easy to build.

Cleric, Cleric, Sorc, Minstrel + dps

Just the same as

Druid, Druid, Bard
Healer, Healer, Shaman, Skald

"Celerity" or "hib has more heals" what ever is just a minor deviation if they accept that they simple can not win and should not build for 8vs8 ops:
The task zone is out there waiting for Albion

Problem with this is that any tank you add in alb is at an endurance deficit compared to the hib/mid group which actually has useful endo, assuming pally isn't in your core to get all the "stuff" that hib and mid have. Which is the exact point of this thread, everything is spread so far out over all the classes. We have all known this though it is no shock. Argueably Hib>mid>>>>Alb in terms of a 4 man core if you added warden to hib as they get both resists/pbt/heals/mez/demez/rupts - alb needs 1 more class when compared to other realms to get the same tools, which is why puging in alb is always a struggle with the same mentality to run a meta setup.
Fri 15 Mar 2019 8:37 AM by Cami
Falken wrote:
Thu 14 Mar 2019 11:21 PM
puging in alb is always a struggle with the same mentality to run a meta setup.

Building a meta PUG is always hard, it doesn't matter which realm you are. Is Hib a tiny bit stronger when you give up the meta and randomly invite anyone? Maybe, but I do not think, that this justifies this qq thread.
Fri 15 Mar 2019 10:13 AM by dudis
More and more people seem to be waking up to the fact that paladins actually arent awful on this server.

Cleric
Cleric
Sorc
Minstrel
Paladin

+ 3 tanks or 3 casters are both very solid setups.
Fri 15 Mar 2019 2:02 PM by Luluko
Falken wrote:
Thu 14 Mar 2019 11:21 PM
Ceen wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:12 PM
Cami wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 2:34 PM
I think this is a subjective impression from the Albion point of view, the Hibernian sun is brighter and the Midgard snow is cleaner, of course!
Where is a good Midgard setup easier to build than an Albion group? Hibernia might need one less class to meet the absolute minimal requirements, but this doesn't mean, that you can fill up with anything. I just assume, that each single group slot is under heavy min-max discussions in all 3 realms and black-white opinions about the one and only group setup are not restricted to one realm.
It's because of Albion gossip #1:
We need to run caba grp and can not form grps easily.
Let's face it none of the /region ae invite grps can stand a 8vs8, so if they would admit that point a alb grp is easy to build.

Cleric, Cleric, Sorc, Minstrel + dps

Just the same as

Druid, Druid, Bard
Healer, Healer, Shaman, Skald

"Celerity" or "hib has more heals" what ever is just a minor deviation if they accept that they simple can not win and should not build for 8vs8 ops:
The task zone is out there waiting for Albion

Problem with this is that any tank you add in alb is at an endurance deficit compared to the hib/mid group which actually has useful endo, assuming pally isn't in your core to get all the "stuff" that hib and mid have. Which is the exact point of this thread, everything is spread so far out over all the classes. We have all known this though it is no shock. Argueably Hib>mid>>>>Alb in terms of a 4 man core if you added warden to hib as they get both resists/pbt/heals/mez/demez/rupts - alb needs 1 more class when compared to other realms to get the same tools, which is why puging in alb is always a struggle with the same mentality to run a meta setup.
that 4 endu buff from shaman is neglectable not much range and you are almost at the buff cap if you buff everyone in your grp 2 speccs add to that 1-2 casters which need brain buff, maybe 1 warry who peels behind can get it tho. But the melees which push for damage usually also only rely on pots in mid. Then you just have to use endu heal pots or use some styles which cost less endu, so skald and anything with hammer specc shouldnt have an issue cant say much about zerks/svgs tho I havent played one yet on phoenix.
Fri 15 Mar 2019 6:57 PM by Falken
Luluko wrote:
Fri 15 Mar 2019 2:02 PM
Falken wrote:
Thu 14 Mar 2019 11:21 PM
Ceen wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:12 PM
It's because of Albion gossip #1:
We need to run caba grp and can not form grps easily.
Let's face it none of the /region ae invite grps can stand a 8vs8, so if they would admit that point a alb grp is easy to build.

Cleric, Cleric, Sorc, Minstrel + dps

Just the same as

Druid, Druid, Bard
Healer, Healer, Shaman, Skald

"Celerity" or "hib has more heals" what ever is just a minor deviation if they accept that they simple can not win and should not build for 8vs8 ops:
The task zone is out there waiting for Albion

Problem with this is that any tank you add in alb is at an endurance deficit compared to the hib/mid group which actually has useful endo, assuming pally isn't in your core to get all the "stuff" that hib and mid have. Which is the exact point of this thread, everything is spread so far out over all the classes. We have all known this though it is no shock. Argueably Hib>mid>>>>Alb in terms of a 4 man core if you added warden to hib as they get both resists/pbt/heals/mez/demez/rupts - alb needs 1 more class when compared to other realms to get the same tools, which is why puging in alb is always a struggle with the same mentality to run a meta setup.
that 4 endu buff from shaman is neglectable not much range and you are almost at the buff cap if you buff everyone in your grp 2 speccs add to that 1-2 casters which need brain buff, maybe 1 warry who peels behind can get it tho. But the melees which push for damage usually also only rely on pots in mid. Then you just have to use endu heal pots or use some styles which cost less endu, so skald and anything with hammer specc shouldnt have an issue cant say much about zerks/svgs tho I havent played one yet on phoenix.
Every realm has trouble giving out full buffs, typically if you want full buffs you need to run one charge and in mid that is usually d/q for tanks (shamans don't get red d/q or red brain) and casters it is red brain for mid. Casters run endo pot, only tanks need yellow endo in mid, buffing this way with 1 charge on tanks/casters and endo pots on supports/casters you are fine buffing as a shaman.
Fri 15 Mar 2019 7:27 PM by kedelin
I spend most fights especially against casters running on my endo pot cause I'm out of range from shaman... shaman endo only 1k units
Fri 15 Mar 2019 8:22 PM by chryso
Yokahu wrote:
Thu 14 Mar 2019 12:43 PM
Oh look, a midgarian complaining that their core group have a class that buffs endurance lol.

Dude, you don’t have to be within 1000 range all the time... you won’t instantly run out of stamina if you leave the shammy’s range for a while. At least your core group have endu buff to support your melee classes.

He wasn't complaining about it but I will. Shaman endo buff costs a conc spot. That means 40% of the shaman buffing ability is going to endo.
Did I mention that shaman is the only mid class handing out spec buffs? Yeah, as a mid, I use buff pots even in full groups.
Fri 15 Mar 2019 11:34 PM by Luluko
Falken wrote:
Fri 15 Mar 2019 6:57 PM
Luluko wrote:
Fri 15 Mar 2019 2:02 PM
Falken wrote:
Thu 14 Mar 2019 11:21 PM
Problem with this is that any tank you add in alb is at an endurance deficit compared to the hib/mid group which actually has useful endo, assuming pally isn't in your core to get all the "stuff" that hib and mid have. Which is the exact point of this thread, everything is spread so far out over all the classes. We have all known this though it is no shock. Argueably Hib>mid>>>>Alb in terms of a 4 man core if you added warden to hib as they get both resists/pbt/heals/mez/demez/rupts - alb needs 1 more class when compared to other realms to get the same tools, which is why puging in alb is always a struggle with the same mentality to run a meta setup.
that 4 endu buff from shaman is neglectable not much range and you are almost at the buff cap if you buff everyone in your grp 2 speccs add to that 1-2 casters which need brain buff, maybe 1 warry who peels behind can get it tho. But the melees which push for damage usually also only rely on pots in mid. Then you just have to use endu heal pots or use some styles which cost less endu, so skald and anything with hammer specc shouldnt have an issue cant say much about zerks/svgs tho I havent played one yet on phoenix.
Every realm has trouble giving out full buffs, typically if you want full buffs you need to run one charge and in mid that is usually d/q for tanks (shamans don't get red d/q or red brain) and casters it is red brain for mid. Casters run endo pot, only tanks need yellow endo in mid, buffing this way with 1 charge on tanks/casters and endo pots on supports/casters you are fine buffing as a shaman.
yeah that would all make sense if you dont die every 5-10mins when either 4+ grps albs camp mmg in emain or 4+ hib grps camp mmg in hadrians...
then rather save the money for the charges and just use yellow buffs + endu pots this whole min maxing is barely worth it with all that zerging going on, at least not if you play eu prime time and beyond and have a shaman which doesnt die first on inc
Sat 16 Mar 2019 2:15 AM by phixion
Worst realm because it's afflicted with the zerg mentality, and everyone decided to make a Minstrel.
Sat 16 Mar 2019 7:55 AM by stridberg
Rule of thumb: If you're in Albion complaining about the other realms, you would also complain about Albion if you were in any of the other. People tending to whine about realm balance always seem to forget that DAoC is a game based around teamplay and many variables. At it's core the game revolves around randomness. Because a savage, after resisting four debuffed lifetaps, ran up to your cabbalist and won the lottery doesn't mean Midgard melee groups are better than alb caster groups.

I spent about 90% of my time on Albion, the rest in Hibernia, and I play Midgard for the first time on Phoenix.
Back then I always thought Albion to be the theoretically strongest realm based on individual class strength. Not in a very dominating fashion, more in the sense of "If a perfect robot controlled this Albion setup it would beat a perfect robot controlling any setup of another realm a majority of the time", and I still lean towards that notion. This conclusion is practically useless, as nobody plays perfect. If you're looking at a fight and you can't find something anyone in your team could've done better you weren't looking nearly hard enough.
Of course this is refering to 8 man groups, arguments for balance can't be made in a zerg environment where all balance and strategy more complex than simply moving in a direction gets thrown out of the window. While balance is also a very fragile thing when going below 8, Albion has hilariously powerful and fun smallman setups.

Getting out of the "the classes of my realm suck at XYZ and that's why I keep getting run over" mentality can drastically improve the fun one has with this game. If you're predispositioned for jumping to conclusions instead of calmly figuring out why a fight played out the way it did, your confirmation bias will lead you to frustration and cause you to make angry forum posts.
Sat 16 Mar 2019 5:12 PM by Seige
stridberg wrote:
Sat 16 Mar 2019 7:55 AM
Rule of thumb: If you're in Albion complaining about the other realms, you would also complain about Albion if you were in any of the other. People tending to whine about realm balance always seem to forget that DAoC is a game based around teamplay and many variables. At it's core the game revolves around randomness. Because a savage, after resisting four debuffed lifetaps, ran up to your cabbalist and won the lottery doesn't mean Midgard melee groups are better than alb caster groups.

I spent about 90% of my time on Albion, the rest in Hibernia, and I play Midgard for the first time on Phoenix.
Back then I always thought Albion to be the theoretically strongest realm based on individual class strength. Not in a very dominating fashion, more in the sense of "If a perfect robot controlled this Albion setup it would beat a perfect robot controlling any setup of another realm a majority of the time", and I still lean towards that notion. This conclusion is practically useless, as nobody plays perfect. If you're looking at a fight and you can't find something anyone in your team could've done better you weren't looking nearly hard enough.
Of course this is refering to 8 man groups, arguments for balance can't be made in a zerg environment where all balance and strategy more complex than simply moving in a direction gets thrown out of the window. While balance is also a very fragile thing when going below 8, Albion has hilariously powerful and fun smallman setups.

Getting out of the "the classes of my realm suck at XYZ and that's why I keep getting run over" mentality can drastically improve the fun one has with this game. If you're predispositioned for jumping to conclusions instead of calmly figuring out why a fight played out the way it did, your confirmation bias will lead you to frustration and cause you to make angry forum posts.

I've spent the majority of my Daoc time on Mid and Hib since release. I, like the majority of old Daocers concur that Alb is and was the weakest realm for many reasons. If your truly interested in those reasons then there are many threads on this forum explaining it. Also many on Uthgard thread. Also many on live forums. The information is there. I think the majority of conflict I have seen with this discussion is the knee jerk reaction of thinking by saying Alb is the weakest, that they can't compete. Alb def can compete and good Alb 8 mans have been scary since Daoc release. This doesn't change the core problems that Alb had and has. Some groups love the uphill fight.
My 2cents.
Sun 17 Mar 2019 11:38 AM by Cwtch
Alb definatly "seem" to be getting stronger in RVR.. on herald it seems most the top RP earners are albs... whereas in the past it was all blue n green
Mon 18 Mar 2019 2:19 PM by teiloh
Cwtch wrote:
Sun 17 Mar 2019 11:38 AM
Alb definatly "seem" to be getting stronger in RVR.. on herald it seems most the top RP earners are albs... whereas in the past it was all blue n green

Not from winning fights. From underpop bonus.
Mon 18 Mar 2019 2:58 PM by dudis
I guess there is a big difference between 8man potential and just random frontier action.

Albion has the strongest 8v8 and 8vX setups available in this era of daoc imo, if you get a group of people that play reasonably well together.
Mon 18 Mar 2019 3:52 PM by Salidry
I was about to write a long post about all this but in my opinion one of the main reasons alb could struggle in 8mans is no speedwarp+every realm has sos
Mon 18 Mar 2019 6:21 PM by Seige
dudis wrote:
Mon 18 Mar 2019 2:58 PM
I guess there is a big difference between 8man potential and just random frontier action.

Albion has the strongest 8v8 and 8vX setups available in this era of daoc imo, if you get a group of people that play reasonably well together.

Curious to know what the strongest 8man setups your speaking of?
Tue 19 Mar 2019 8:15 AM by dudis
Seige wrote:
Mon 18 Mar 2019 6:21 PM
dudis wrote:
Mon 18 Mar 2019 2:58 PM
I guess there is a big difference between 8man potential and just random frontier action.

Albion has the strongest 8v8 and 8vX setups available in this era of daoc imo, if you get a group of people that play reasonably well together.

Curious to know what the strongest 8man setups your speaking of?

One example would be a caster group. Tons of utility, tons of pets, everyone has long range, body damage synergy etc. There are obviously many variations of this. You can run only sorcs and cabs or put one or two theurgs in there, one or two minstrels, add a merc for more of a hybrid setup (two tanks) etc.

Another example that I dont see many people running to be fair is a 2 minstrel tank-group. That's basically purely for 8v8 though.
Tue 19 Mar 2019 12:43 PM by teiloh
Hib heat trains don't have less damage or utility than Alb groups and their casters' pets are stronger. if you have a Theurg for more pet interrupts you lose one on the train. Hib support is also better.

Eld Ment Chanter + whatever
Tue 19 Mar 2019 1:23 PM by Cami
The better team wins 95% of all 8v8, assuming an open field INC, competitive setups on both sides and similar RR with all active RAs being up.
In 19 of 20 cases, obvious mistakes were made leading to a defeat. Discussing the remaining 5% balance issues does not improve your team play.
If you can point out the best 8v8 team on Phoenix, I have no doubt, that those guys would still be superior in any other Realm.
Wed 20 Mar 2019 1:31 PM by wubbl0rz
i agree with you. alb is the worst realm. on no server i have seen albs getting farmed so hard like on phoenix.
when task is in alb there are almost no alb kills in the fz and snowdonia is a ~1h farm fest for skalds and smallmans with not much resistance.
if task is in hib it is a constant farming loop from amg to atk and back ... repeat for most of the day.

ive played almost entirely solo to 7L3 (which is not hard at all on phoenix) on skald and observed (and added ) alot of fights. and 90% the time albs getting destroyed (1v1, 8v8, 8vX, XvX ... does not matter). even minstrels which should be one of the best (if not the best) solo class getting destroyed because skalds got det.

only in the evening when mids are in TG and the hibs dont have the numbers out ... albs can sometimes dominate.

as a mid player i think alb needs some serious love on phoenix.
Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:45 PM by dudis
What would you even balance?

I tend to think it's a community issue, not a balance issue.

You might not agree with me that alb have very strong classes and possible setups, but even a mediocre setup with mediocre players can do well in rvr and they do all the time on mid/hib.

I dont know what it's like tro try and PUG on alb, but from a mids perspective, I very rarely see regular alb groups in the frontier. Mids and hibs however have a ton of guildgroups that are recognizable.
Wed 20 Mar 2019 3:18 PM by Cami
dudis wrote:
Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:45 PM
I dont know what it's like tro try and PUG on alb, but from a mids perspective, I very rarely see regular alb groups in the frontier. Mids and hibs however have a ton of guildgroups that are recognizable.

I am not aware of any regularly running competitive guild group in Albion. I see some guilds building a group twice a week for the evening, but those players do not login in-between. So there is basically no available player pool for competitive PUGs. Your two options are logging out or filling up the group with /lfg which both ends up being equally successful. This is definitely a community issue! There are quite a lot of good players, but they split into separate groups. Having 4 good groups at 5/8 is not helpful.
Wed 20 Mar 2019 4:28 PM by Dagerin
I'm not sure what 8-mans some of you are fighting, but there is little question alb groups are at a disadvantage right now. I feel like it's more of an issue with what we think a good group setup is however.

Mid is running huge tank train groups. Hib is more hybrid, but their most effective groups seem to be running bard/druid/druid/warden/3 or even 4 tanks.

Against an alb caster group, which is what everyone wants to run, with no speedwarp it is extremely difficult to deal with these groups. Especially against the hibs, they simply 5 man melee split and inturrupt everything until they can lock something down with stun and kill it. Mid is generally the same, with savages outputting caster DPS in a melee body. Alb group comps have to be very high RR and play perfectly in order to beat groups like this.

Against hybrid setups I agree, Alb can be competitive, but in our base minst/cleric/cleric/sorc/cab/theurg/caster/peel setup we are at a huge disadvantage. It pains me to say it as a theurgist but I think to have remotely equal footing with these melee groups, we need to bite the bullet and run similar setups.
Wed 20 Mar 2019 5:02 PM by Cami
Dagerin wrote:
Wed 20 Mar 2019 4:28 PM
Alb group comps have to be very high RR and play perfectly in order to beat groups like this.
I disagree, kiting is not that hard, it is quite easy to be precise. Unfortunately, 90% of the population does not even understand the basics of kiting. I see casters just standing there when 2 Trolls charging them with speed 6, Tanks in the peeler position straight running into the enemy backline or Cabalist immediately starting with debuff nukes on the first target they can reach.
You are probably correct, that Alb compositions are a bit more complex to play, but you do not have to play perfectly, just better than your enemy.
Wed 20 Mar 2019 6:50 PM by Dagerin
Cami wrote:
Wed 20 Mar 2019 5:02 PM
Dagerin wrote:
Wed 20 Mar 2019 4:28 PM
Alb group comps have to be very high RR and play perfectly in order to beat groups like this.
I disagree, kiting is not that hard, it is quite easy to be precise. Unfortunately, 90% of the population does not even understand the basics of kiting. I see casters just standing there when 2 Trolls charging them with speed 6, Tanks in the peeler position straight running into the enemy backline or Cabalist immediately starting with debuff nukes on the first target they can reach.
You are probably correct, that Alb compositions are a bit more complex to play, but you do not have to play perfectly, just better than your enemy.

Kiting is easy but when your entire group comp is subject to being inturrupted by and eventually killed by det 9 tanks you're going to be at a disadvantage, I don't care how you want to spin it. I didn't say Albs can't win, I said Alb groups needs to play very well in order to do it.

Clearly noone on Alb has figured out how to do that yet, so I think the point is clear that yes, in this patch and without ToA Alb is the worst realm at least for 8v8. I remember playing in OF on Hib, and the only Alb groups on Lance that were good were tank groups with polearmsmen that hit for 600 a swing. Caster groups just weren't a thing, or if they were they were just food for us. It wasn't until ToA gave us more range, faster speed, more damage, speedwarp etc that caster groups were really allowed to shine.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 8:37 AM by dudis
All alb casters have access to spells with > 1500 range and only wizards dont have a pet.

Det 9 tanks are also slowed down by disease, melee snares and ice pets. Just spread out and kite their tanks to overextend them, while you CC and send you pets on their support.

Rather simple, really. Just kite back whenever tanks get anywhere near you
Thu 21 Mar 2019 8:44 AM by Cami
Dagerin wrote:
Wed 20 Mar 2019 6:50 PM
Clearly noone on Alb has figured out how to do that yet, so I think the point is clear that yes, in this patch and without ToA Alb is the worst realm at least for 8v8.
So the reason, that there are no guild groups in Alb running daily is the proof of a broken balance or is it the other way around? Yes, the point you are trying to make is clear, it is just not proven and I highly doubt that it is true.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 3:27 PM by DinoTriz
I play Albion because we have pretty castles and vast plains.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 6:44 PM by kedelin
Cami wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 8:44 AM
Dagerin wrote:
Wed 20 Mar 2019 6:50 PM
Clearly noone on Alb has figured out how to do that yet, so I think the point is clear that yes, in this patch and without ToA Alb is the worst realm at least for 8v8.
So the reason, that there are no guild groups in Alb running daily is the proof of a broken balance or is it the other way around? Yes, the point you are trying to make is clear, it is just not proven and I highly doubt that it is true.

I don't know what time you play but na time there is constantly 3 to 4 alb guild groups plus the Lakers 16slot
Fri 22 Mar 2019 4:20 PM by Losse
Friar is getting buffed, start new thread based on that lol.

Alb has the most retired WWF wrestlers than any realm so thats a plus people don't think about.
Tue 26 Mar 2019 6:22 PM by Turtle006
Losse wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 4:20 PM
Alb has the most retired WWF wrestlers than any realm so thats a plus people don't think about.

What?
Tue 26 Mar 2019 10:36 PM by Komaf
I love the concept of Det 9 armsmen groups. It's a crying shame that even the great developers of this version of DAoC have still done little to change three realms spamming for bomb/heals/focus.

Few if any groups invite melee for anything - though I feel mid has a bit more luck since you can play a Thane, there.

My armsman has been 39 for two weeks...got four bubbles all day Saturday and mostly because only a few melee (infil and something) joined a small group that didn't have a cabalist/wizards and hence, people got bored and it died out after a short while.

Frustrating.
Wed 27 Mar 2019 10:02 PM by Sevorin
Alb has the best stealth classes. Change my mind.
Thu 28 Mar 2019 5:50 AM by MacPrior
Albion has strongest classes.
Albion has access to very strong set ups - caster, melee and mixed.
But
Albion is a most difficult realm for group building.
and
Albion has always on every server huge part of population interested in PvE only.
A midgarder has nothing to do in inside realm after he hited the level 50 and got an equipment, he is permanently ready for RvR.
An Albioner after making first lvl 50, starts the next one, then a third one, then farms items for a perfect temp, then starts to farm items for a better temp and afterwords may be (!) he begins to think about RvR.
Thu 28 Mar 2019 1:17 PM by Seige
MacPrior wrote:
Thu 28 Mar 2019 5:50 AM
Albion has strongest classes.
Albion has access to very strong set ups - caster, melee and mixed.
But
Albion is a most difficult realm for group building.
and
Albion has always on every server huge part of population interested in PvE only.
A midgarder has nothing to do in inside realm after he hited the level 50 and got an equipment, he is permanently ready for RvR.
An Albioner after making first lvl 50, starts the next one, then a third one, then farms items for a perfect temp, then starts to farm items for a better temp and afterwords may be (!) he begins to think about RvR.

What makes a Cleric stronger than a healer? or Druid?
What makes a Sorc stronger than a bard? Healer?
What makes a Merc stronger than a bm? Zerker?
What makes a Cabby stronger than a Eld? Shaman?
When you make blanket statements at least give your reasoning behind them please. Obviously you can't do a mirror comparison, but if you look at the jobs of each class.
Seems to be a few people who truly think Albion is the strongest of the realms. Historically this isn't true without overwhelming numbers. I am starting to think I played/play a different game than some of you. I do agree with Albion being difficult to build the right groups. This is one of the key problems with Albion.. The reason its difficult to build the right groups is because of the weaknesses of the classes imo. Not that people won't group certain classes.
All of you who are complaining that, "Its not fair Alb simply wont group my class because of the so called meta and building the perfect group wah wah" There is a bloody reason your aren't chosen over those other classes.. Maybe if you realized that you would understand the majority of players gripes about Albion.
Thu 28 Mar 2019 3:07 PM by opossum12
I'm going to repeat myself, but Albion is the more difficult realm to do good, but has highest payoff.

You take shit players and make groups on the different realms, they should be:

- MID : OK, as long as you have a semi competent Pac, the rest can just go Mongo and do decent. Just look at Smakish and Natebruner, they are retarded but kind of make a mid tanker work.
- HIB : Again, do a tanker group and have a decent bard, you should be fine.
- ALB : Since the tanker option is not as strong as HIB/MID, then you don't have that easy braindead setup bad players can be decent at.

However, put really good players in the three realms, ALB is incredibly strong, mainly becuase of the raw damage and interrupt potential the classes have.

They have the best casters in Sorc, Cabby and Theurg (even though BD is slightly overtuned here with the insta lifetap on a 0.00001 sec cooldown). However, you need your best player on cabby as he is MA, nearsighter, needs to control a pet and DPS. You need a very good player on Minstrel to be able to manage pet, cc and rupts all at the same time, you can't cc their pets that can be really tough to manage (red con). And you need a good Armsman for peels. The clerics don't need a brain and the theurg just needs to have a basic understanding on what needs pets and which pets.

So.... Alb has highest barrier to entry but offers best potential in my opinion.
Thu 28 Mar 2019 3:11 PM by keen
Daoc doesn't reward playing harder to play setups. They are just harder to play. This doesn't mean they are superior to an equally well played pure tanker that is most likely the easiest to compete setup.
Thu 28 Mar 2019 3:48 PM by MadDog
Seige wrote:
Thu 28 Mar 2019 1:17 PM
MacPrior wrote:
Thu 28 Mar 2019 5:50 AM
Albion has strongest classes.
Albion has access to very strong set ups - caster, melee and mixed.
But
Albion is a most difficult realm for group building.
and
Albion has always on every server huge part of population interested in PvE only.
A midgarder has nothing to do in inside realm after he hited the level 50 and got an equipment, he is permanently ready for RvR.
An Albioner after making first lvl 50, starts the next one, then a third one, then farms items for a perfect temp, then starts to farm items for a better temp and afterwords may be (!) he begins to think about RvR.

What makes a Cleric stronger than a healer? or Druid?
What makes a Sorc stronger than a bard? Healer?
What makes a Merc stronger than a bm? Zerker?
What makes a Cabby stronger than a Eld? Shaman?
When you make blanket statements at least give your reasoning behind them please. Obviously you can't do a mirror comparison, but if you look at the jobs of each class.
Seems to be a few people who truly think Albion is the strongest of the realms. Historically this isn't true without overwhelming numbers. I am starting to think I played/play a different game than some of you. I do agree with Albion being difficult to build the right groups. This is one of the key problems with Albion.. The reason its difficult to build the right groups is because of the weaknesses of the classes imo. Not that people won't group certain classes.
All of you who are complaining that, "Its not fair Alb simply wont group my class because of the so called meta and building the perfect group wah wah" There is a bloody reason your aren't chosen over those other classes.. Maybe if you realized that you would understand the majority of players gripes about Albion.


Why comparing Sorc to bard and healer ?

Sorc are main CC or dps, they are strong AF, they have all the utility except nearsight and Disease but this point is covered by cabalist.
Thu 28 Mar 2019 4:28 PM by Seige
MadDog wrote:
Thu 28 Mar 2019 3:48 PM
Seige wrote:
Thu 28 Mar 2019 1:17 PM
MacPrior wrote:
Thu 28 Mar 2019 5:50 AM
Albion has strongest classes.
Albion has access to very strong set ups - caster, melee and mixed.
But
Albion is a most difficult realm for group building.
and
Albion has always on every server huge part of population interested in PvE only.
A midgarder has nothing to do in inside realm after he hited the level 50 and got an equipment, he is permanently ready for RvR.
An Albioner after making first lvl 50, starts the next one, then a third one, then farms items for a perfect temp, then starts to farm items for a better temp and afterwords may be (!) he begins to think about RvR.

What makes a Cleric stronger than a healer? or Druid?
What makes a Sorc stronger than a bard? Healer?
What makes a Merc stronger than a bm? Zerker?
What makes a Cabby stronger than a Eld? Shaman?
When you make blanket statements at least give your reasoning behind them please. Obviously you can't do a mirror comparison, but if you look at the jobs of each class.
Seems to be a few people who truly think Albion is the strongest of the realms. Historically this isn't true without overwhelming numbers. I am starting to think I played/play a different game than some of you. I do agree with Albion being difficult to build the right groups. This is one of the key problems with Albion.. The reason its difficult to build the right groups is because of the weaknesses of the classes imo. Not that people won't group certain classes.
All of you who are complaining that, "Its not fair Alb simply wont group my class because of the so called meta and building the perfect group wah wah" There is a bloody reason your aren't chosen over those other classes.. Maybe if you realized that you would understand the majority of players gripes about Albion.


Why comparing Sorc to bard and healer ?

Sorc are main CC or dps, they are strong AF, they have all the utility except nearsight and Disease but this point is covered by cabalist.
Lol.
Im done here......
Fri 29 Mar 2019 12:29 AM by Freudinio
Unified RA's makes it almost impossible to run most of the old alb tank setups :\
Fri 29 Mar 2019 11:08 AM by faliv
2xminstrel, 2xcleric, 1xfriar, 3xmelee (nec optional) and you have a braindead melee sticksetup in alb too.

But as always: Albions biggest handicap are its players.
Fri 29 Mar 2019 2:11 PM by Seige
faliv wrote:
Fri 29 Mar 2019 11:08 AM
2xminstrel, 2xcleric, 1xfriar, 3xmelee (nec optional) and you have a braindead melee sticksetup in alb too.

But as always: Albions biggest handicap are its players.

Is that setup equal to 2xdruid 1xbard 1xwarden 4xBM or some other melee variant.. We've run 3 BM 1 VW with good success(offtopic)
Or 2xHealer 1x Shaman 1x Skald 3 savages zerk/warr/thane w/e ?

I don't understand how players wanting to run the most optimal group comps makes them braindead.. Where did this mentality come from? There is a reason that the best 8 mans are on Hib/Mid imo.
There is a good 8 man for Alb running around thats all RR7+.. Kudos to them for making it work.. You guys are scary to fight.
Fri 29 Mar 2019 2:19 PM by faliv
Seige wrote:
Fri 29 Mar 2019 2:11 PM
faliv wrote:
Fri 29 Mar 2019 11:08 AM
[...]
But as always: Albions biggest handicap are its players.

Is that setup equal to 2xdruid 1xbard 1xwarden 4xBM [...]

the most optimal group comps [...]

q.e.d.
Fri 29 Mar 2019 3:47 PM by Seige
faliv wrote:
Fri 29 Mar 2019 2:19 PM
Seige wrote:
Fri 29 Mar 2019 2:11 PM
faliv wrote:
Fri 29 Mar 2019 11:08 AM
[...]
But as always: Albions biggest handicap are its players.

Is that setup equal to 2xdruid 1xbard 1xwarden 4xBM [...]

the most optimal group comps [...]

q.e.d.

You have proven nothing? Maybe try answering the questions. There are two of em..
I don't understand how players wanting to run the most optimal group comps makes them braindead.---The one you seem to have a problem with.
-------------------------
Is that setup equal to 2xdruid 1xbard 1xwarden 4xBM or some other melee variant.. We've run 3 BM 1 VW with good success(offtopic)
Or 2xHealer 1x Shaman 1x Skald 3 savages zerk/warr/thane w/e ?
--------------------- The question you wont or can't answer?
Fri 29 Mar 2019 4:32 PM by FFpheonix
Braindead (in this thread) means "requiring little thought to do well."

There's very few Albs willing to run a melee group, and of those limited groups even less consider the potential of adding a Necro (for almost double damage on the assist train.)
Fri 29 Mar 2019 6:00 PM by Seige
FFpheonix wrote:
Fri 29 Mar 2019 4:32 PM
Braindead (in this thread) means "requiring little thought to do well."

There's very few Albs willing to run a melee group, and of those limited groups even less consider the potential of adding a Necro (for almost double damage on the assist train.)

I'd argue that Albs melee group versus hib/mid isn't "Braindead". As would many others..Choosing the more difficult group comp to compete with Mid/Hib 8 mans especially when Mid/Hib comparable groups are stronger is silly. Choosing to sub in mostly useless or niche classes in order to attempt to succeed is moronic at best when playing in a competitive environment . But I guess to each their own
QED
Fri 29 Mar 2019 6:57 PM by Turtle006
Seige wrote:
Fri 29 Mar 2019 2:11 PM
faliv wrote:
Fri 29 Mar 2019 11:08 AM
2xminstrel, 2xcleric, 1xfriar, 3xmelee (nec optional) and you have a braindead melee sticksetup in alb too.

But as always: Albions biggest handicap are its players.

Is that setup equal to 2xdruid 1xbard 1xwarden 4xBM or some other melee variant.. We've run 3 BM 1 VW with good success(offtopic)
Or 2xHealer 1x Shaman 1x Skald 3 savages zerk/warr/thane w/e ?

I don't understand how players wanting to run the most optimal group comps makes them braindead.. Where did this mentality come from? There is a reason that the best 8 mans are on Hib/Mid imo.
There is a good 8 man for Alb running around thats all RR7+.. Kudos to them for making it work.. You guys are scary to fight.

I don't see that Alb setup as anywhere near as good as the Hib/Mid equivalents you posted. The Alb group has a serious lack of CC, especially secondary CC. Sure Det helps with that, but the HIbs and Mids get Det also. Mincer stun is great for giving slam immunity to the enemy tanks, and 5s cast mezz is not beating instants, ever.

Mids have Primary: CC, Heals, Buffs, Disease and DPS
Hibs have Primary: CC, Heals, Buffs, PBT and DPS
Albs have Primary Heals, Buffs and DPS and Secondary CC and no "extra trick" (PBT or Disease)
Fri 29 Mar 2019 7:17 PM by Ashenspire
Necro's AF debuff doesn't warrant them a slot in an alb melee group. A theurgist will add similar DPS with haste and DA while actually contributing in other areas like damage and disruption, and cc.
Fri 29 Mar 2019 8:25 PM by Seige
Glad to see some actual common sense in this thread.
Sat 30 Mar 2019 3:40 PM by Freudinio
faliv wrote:
Fri 29 Mar 2019 11:08 AM
2xminstrel, 2xcleric, 1xfriar, 3xmelee (nec optional) and you have a braindead melee sticksetup in alb too.

But as always: Albions biggest handicap are its players.

Congratulations on creating, quite possibly, the dumbest post on the internet. Quite a feat.
Sat 30 Mar 2019 10:38 PM by SaintRon
Ceen wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:12 PM
Cami wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 2:34 PM
I think this is a subjective impression from the Albion point of view, the Hibernian sun is brighter and the Midgard snow is cleaner, of course!
Where is a good Midgard setup easier to build than an Albion group? Hibernia might need one less class to meet the absolute minimal requirements, but this doesn't mean, that you can fill up with anything. I just assume, that each single group slot is under heavy min-max discussions in all 3 realms and black-white opinions about the one and only group setup are not restricted to one realm.
It's because of Albion gossip #1:
We need to run caba grp and can not form grps easily.
Let's face it none of the /region ae invite grps can stand a 8vs8, so if they would admit that point a alb grp is easy to build.

Cleric, Cleric, Sorc, Minstrel + dps

Just the same as

Druid, Druid, Bard
Healer, Healer, Shaman, Skald

"Celerity" or "hib has more heals" what ever is just a minor deviation if they accept that they simple can not win and should not build for 8vs8 ops:
The task zone is out there waiting for Albion


When I played live on my Sorc we ran:

Sorc, Cleric , Cleric, Paladin, Minstrel, + 3 DPS from whoever was available within the guild.

When you guys say the Alb group "doesn't have enough room for mez" you kinda sound clueless. We HAD to include a paladin back in the day.

I think you're just stuck making caster groups since that's what's leveling... so your rvr concerns are more... pve concerns.
Sat 30 Mar 2019 10:52 PM by Seige
SaintRon wrote:
Sat 30 Mar 2019 10:38 PM
Ceen wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:12 PM
Cami wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 2:34 PM
I think this is a subjective impression from the Albion point of view, the Hibernian sun is brighter and the Midgard snow is cleaner, of course!
Where is a good Midgard setup easier to build than an Albion group? Hibernia might need one less class to meet the absolute minimal requirements, but this doesn't mean, that you can fill up with anything. I just assume, that each single group slot is under heavy min-max discussions in all 3 realms and black-white opinions about the one and only group setup are not restricted to one realm.
It's because of Albion gossip #1:
We need to run caba grp and can not form grps easily.
Let's face it none of the /region ae invite grps can stand a 8vs8, so if they would admit that point a alb grp is easy to build.

Cleric, Cleric, Sorc, Minstrel + dps

Just the same as

Druid, Druid, Bard
Healer, Healer, Shaman, Skald

"Celerity" or "hib has more heals" what ever is just a minor deviation if they accept that they simple can not win and should not build for 8vs8 ops:
The task zone is out there waiting for Albion


When I played live on my Sorc we ran:

Sorc, Cleric , Cleric, Paladin, Minstrel, + 3 DPS from whoever was available within the guild.

When you guys say the Alb group "doesn't have enough room for mez" you kinda sound clueless. We HAD to include a paladin back in the day.

I think you're just stuck making caster groups since that's what's leveling... so your rvr concerns are more... pve concerns.

Doesn't have enough room for MEZ ?? Don't see anyone saying that.. Doesn't have enough room for ME? Think you are missing the point of the discussion or your willfully clueless.
Sat 30 Mar 2019 10:53 PM by opossum12
Ashenspire wrote:
Fri 29 Mar 2019 7:17 PM
Necro's AF debuff doesn't warrant them a slot in an alb melee group. A theurgist will add similar DPS with haste and DA while actually contributing in other areas like damage and disruption, and cc.

Take a guess at what was the strongest group in beta, just take a guess.

Now, imagine it was a necro tanker. Yes, that's what it was.

When I read comments like "minstrel is really good at giving tanks stun immunity", for sure if you put your biggest retard on the most important class you will suck. And then it's these same people that say "omg omg omg Albs are so baddddd, please help us".

Alb is extremely powerful when you habe good players, because of the power of its classes.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 12:16 AM by SaintRon
Seige wrote:
Sat 30 Mar 2019 10:52 PM
SaintRon wrote:
Sat 30 Mar 2019 10:38 PM
Ceen wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:12 PM
It's because of Albion gossip #1:
We need to run caba grp and can not form grps easily.
Let's face it none of the /region ae invite grps can stand a 8vs8, so if they would admit that point a alb grp is easy to build.

Cleric, Cleric, Sorc, Minstrel + dps

Just the same as

Druid, Druid, Bard
Healer, Healer, Shaman, Skald

"Celerity" or "hib has more heals" what ever is just a minor deviation if they accept that they simple can not win and should not build for 8vs8 ops:
The task zone is out there waiting for Albion


When I played live on my Sorc we ran:

Sorc, Cleric , Cleric, Paladin, Minstrel, + 3 DPS from whoever was available within the guild.

When you guys say the Alb group "doesn't have enough room for mez" you kinda sound clueless. We HAD to include a paladin back in the day.

I think you're just stuck making caster groups since that's what's leveling... so your rvr concerns are more... pve concerns.

Doesn't have enough room for MEZ ?? Don't see anyone saying that.. Doesn't have enough room for ME? Think you are missing the point of the discussion or your willfully clueless.


Someone literally typed that out earlier in this thread.

FFpheonix wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 1:07 PM
The other Realms are better at many things, when compared to what and Alb group can offer. Friar, Necromancer, Reaver, and Paladin do not make it into most Alb RvR groups. The main reason is the MIN/MAX of efficiency and utility per class and the 8 member group limit. Neither Hib nor Mid need to make a decision to leave Mezz out of their groups, that's a huge plus for them when forming a group.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 1:19 AM by Seige
SaintRon wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 12:16 AM
Seige wrote:
Sat 30 Mar 2019 10:52 PM
SaintRon wrote:
Sat 30 Mar 2019 10:38 PM
When I played live on my Sorc we ran:

Sorc, Cleric , Cleric, Paladin, Minstrel, + 3 DPS from whoever was available within the guild.

When you guys say the Alb group "doesn't have enough room for mez" you kinda sound clueless. We HAD to include a paladin back in the day.

I think you're just stuck making caster groups since that's what's leveling... so your rvr concerns are more... pve concerns.

Doesn't have enough room for MEZ ?? Don't see anyone saying that.. Doesn't have enough room for ME? Think you are missing the point of the discussion or your willfully clueless.


Someone literally typed that out earlier in this thread.

FFpheonix wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 1:07 PM
The other Realms are better at many things, when compared to what and Alb group can offer. Friar, Necromancer, Reaver, and Paladin do not make it into most Alb RvR groups. The main reason is the MIN/MAX of efficiency and utility per class and the 8 member group limit. Neither Hib nor Mid need to make a decision to leave Mezz out of their groups, that's a huge plus for them when forming a group.

Damn page 1.. Dont remember what his point was.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 4:13 PM by FFpheonix
I guess placing CC and Speed on Supports is bad for all of the other Realms? Running 3-4 Supports is better for RvR than being locked in to Minst, Sorc, and two Clerics.
Thu 18 Apr 2019 2:56 PM by PingGuy
People think Albion is the worst, but I bet they hold the record for the most people getting temp-muted due to being jackwagons in advice chat. Oh wait, that is part of why they are the worst.
Sat 15 Jun 2019 8:08 PM by Arla
I rolled Alb with a few friends. Looking to break the meta and have fun. I think Reavers have some interesting potential in RvR. No other realm has bolt range mezz. A primary speed class that gets a pet. I could go on, but my point is Alb has cool classes, the meta is made to be broken and can lead to some serious fun. Even with 8 manning here there is rarely a "clean hit". The opportunities abound for building interesting groups that could potentially fight more than 8 without being a prototypical extend group.
Sat 15 Jun 2019 10:23 PM by gotwqqd
Every realm has cool classes...seems like most just think it’s not the one they play
Sun 16 Jun 2019 12:42 PM by Bentleyzsht
Critical13 wrote:
Wed 13 Mar 2019 4:04 AM
I have been playing for about 2 months now and I think it's safe to say that Albion is the worst realm...in terms of RvR.

This isn't meant to bash our realm, but to identify the issues that cause us to be the worst.

What are some problems that we as Albs face and is there a possible solution?

Y'all always own thid tho.
Sun 16 Jun 2019 4:12 PM by teiloh
Arla wrote:
Sat 15 Jun 2019 8:08 PM
I rolled Alb with a few friends. Looking to break the meta and have fun. I think Reavers have some interesting potential in RvR. No other realm has bolt range mezz. A primary speed class that gets a pet. I could go on, but my point is Alb has cool classes, the meta is made to be broken and can lead to some serious fun. Even with 8 manning here there is rarely a "clean hit". The opportunities abound for building interesting groups that could potentially fight more than 8 without being a prototypical extend group.

Reavers, Minstrels and Sorcs are all much weaker on this server than they were/should be (along with Necromancers and Cabalists).

https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issues/c0a6a39f-20fb-48af-93f4-7bce72d2ce8e

https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issues/ed8a2e9e-2763-4c28-96e5-4387e9aa4d16
Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:19 AM by Tigerforce
The issue with Albion is that it is caster heavy. Not to mention more than half are RR4 and lower meaning no MoC. Alb has the best range casters in game, and at high RR and in the hands of good players, Alb is very hard to Vs. in a open field due to their ability to extend. (More so than a hib grp laying down tanglers).

Nothing but casters + Low RR = total loss vs a more balanced realm with melee for positionals and rupts.


That being said the only thing to really do Is make Alb melee more attractive. One of the main issues is a lack of celerity. Friars attack too slow, 2h Pally's are near useless, and are just completely outshined by Mid/Hib tanks. Mid has celerity, and Hib tanks have free IP2, 3rd blade for more dmg ect...
Mon 17 Jun 2019 9:22 PM by teiloh
Alb Casters are highly overrated. It's just that you need to have at least one in the group and it its on the Body train.

They are good but with Enchanter and BD resist debuffs interrupting and pet DoTs *not* for some bizarre justification, Alb caster groups are arguably a bit weaker.
Tue 18 Jun 2019 4:30 AM by Isavyr
Tigerforce wrote:
Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:19 AM
That being said the only thing to really do Is make Alb melee more attractive. One of the main issues is a lack of celerity. Friars attack too slow, 2h Pally's are near useless, and are just completely outshined by Mid/Hib tanks. Mid has celerity, and Hib tanks have free IP2, 3rd blade for more dmg ect...

A lot of outdated information regarding tanks on this server. In classic, the above was somewhat true regarding 2h Paladins. Here, you have side and back snare, and 7 and 9s follow-up stuns. Armsman gets any-time snare, and both the arms and Pally do comparable damage to other tanks. The primary difference is styles, and Albion isn't lacking. Should you have mentioned Mercenary, I'd agree, but unfortunately that's how it was in classic too. The mercenary has poor snare potential and is designed more for 1v1 than group-play. As for friar being too slow--that's up to you; they can have very fast staves, and with their self-haste, swing like a quick 1-hander.
Tue 18 Jun 2019 4:57 AM by Gorgoroth
I agree with Alb being the "worst" realm, under certain definitions.

Building RVR groups in Alb is not easy, but possible (unless you are stealth, then you easily group up all the time). But that was always the case with Albion.
Not many classes really stand out much or - at least to me - are particularly interesting to play (except maybe a Minstrel, they are pretty cool).

PvE levelling is centred (or at least was when I played alb here) around Caba Pet pulling. Melee Teams rarely formed or did so only as a result of not finding a group with casters.

I can't speak for Hibernia or say how things look there, but Midgard has many viable group setups and i cant see players spamming the LFG as they don't find groups, whatever they play.
Thu 20 Jun 2019 1:54 PM by Horus
As an old time alb player I can say Phoenix has done quite a bit to buff out many of the worst problems Alb had.

1. Easy endo regen (sorry palys)
2. Det on light tanks (Reaver is prob the best rvr tank in the game with determination)
3. Improved wiz earth line.

As far as classes I think Alb does just fine. All things being meta/equal and given the "rock, scissors , paper" comparison...

Alb = Rock
Hib = Paper
Mid = Scissors

Not a bad place to be...
Fri 21 Jun 2019 6:27 AM by MacPrior
Horus wrote:
Thu 20 Jun 2019 1:54 PM
1. Easy endo regen (sorry palys)
2. Det on light tanks (Reaver is prob the best rvr tank in the game with determination)
3. Improved wiz earth line.



I like Albion, but I found this statement was somehow... strange.
1 . Pala has to twist his chants permanent in order to keep power and provide endu. 1 hour run through FZ searching enemy contact is just pain for a pala. Or, he has to use a forbidden macro.
Easy endu looks for me different.

2 . Reaver istnt a light tank, he is a Hybrid, like VW, Thane, Skald, Warden, Champion. And each of them got a possibility to skill Determination. So, no advantage for Alb in this piont too.
Light tanks are Merc, Bersi, Sauvage and BM. And they getting automatically stoizism additional to Det.

3. Improved Wizz sonds good. He is good. But he got some utilities which a Runi and an Eldrich always have had.
Fri 21 Jun 2019 5:33 PM by teiloh
Horus wrote:
Thu 20 Jun 2019 1:54 PM
1. Easy endo regen (sorry palys)
2. Det on light tanks (Reaver is prob the best rvr tank in the game with determination)
3. Improved wiz earth line.

Every Hib and Mid group has some kind of de-haste, if their melees don't use it already, which brings Reaver DPS down significantly.
Sat 22 Jun 2019 12:31 AM by rodsta69
MacPrior wrote:
Fri 21 Jun 2019 6:27 AM
Horus wrote:
Thu 20 Jun 2019 1:54 PM
1. Easy endo regen (sorry palys)
2. Det on light tanks (Reaver is prob the best rvr tank in the game with determination)
3. Improved wiz earth line.



I like Albion, but I found this statement was somehow... strange.
1 . Pala has to twist his chants permanent in order to keep power and provide endu. 1 hour run through FZ searching enemy contact is just pain for a pala. Or, he has to use a forbidden macro.
Easy endu looks for me different.

2 . Reaver istnt a light tank, he is a Hybrid, like VW, Thane, Skald, Warden, Champion. And each of them got a possibility to skill Determination. So, no advantage for Alb in this piont too.
Light tanks are Merc, Bersi, Sauvage and BM. And they getting automatically stoizism additional to Det.

3. Improved Wizz sonds good. He is good. But he got some utilities which a Runi and an Eldrich always have had.

I think the person you quoted meant that endo regen is easy to access because of potions, which fixed the Alb problem of only having end regen via Pallies which as you stated are a pain to keep endo going and they also seem to be a very unpopular class here. But everyone can use pots and have end regen whether you have a Pally in your group or not.
Tue 30 Jul 2019 8:59 AM by Herf
In my opinion Albs is not weaker. It's a bit different to Play as many used from A: Live or B: other freeshards with more classic conepts.

The introduction of the elemental debuffs in the Wiz matter spec line is one of the best buffs the Alb caster Setup formations could have.

It opens the possibility that the sorc can Play main CC without the need to be the assist nuker, to focus on mezz, demezz and single rooting
This would open here as a Approach in a caster Setup 1 matterwiz played like ench without pet - 46 /45 if you don't take the last bolt )Matter 28 Cold, debuffing own base nuke
2 Theurgs, one as the classical earth/ice interrupter with moc1 for heavy petting one as main assister with high cold spec and more dps concentrated RA Setup ( and secondary Petting Slot for main theu having no mana or rupt.

Sure main Argument against - no assist with a big high dvelve spec nuke like Hib caster.

If you go hybrid you can take a reaver with you - cold dmg on Levi with debuff is an awesome Thing imho

The levi debuff opens up to tank grps with reavers and mercs with cold dd weapons - arms too of course - with the Level 34 30% cold debuff from a sorc ( i assume a split spec sorc ) this is an awesome assisttrain and a good Interrupt potential with sorc minst and reaver

So, conclusion after wall of text:

Caster Setup 1 min 1 cler 1 friar 1 sorc 1 wizz 2 theu +x (reaver for social spot) maybe full ice wiz for hard assist maybe 3rd theu?

Tank Setup 1 min 1 cler 1 friar 1 sorc 1-2 reaver merc arms

Just ideas. And very hard to Play because we all have to Change our playstyle we built up over a decade or more.
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