ROGs and and thier effect on satisfying PVE

I know some of you are only in DAOC for the hardcore PVP, this really won't interest you--- I am not so much into open field 8 mans, etc.. I prefer Relic defense and keep take/defense which isn't always available-- hence my love for exploring in PVE. To make a long story short, I thought ROGs were FANTASTIC leveling up-- but as I progress through the end game with my three different 50s, I've found the PVE side rather stale for two reasons-- All bosses have had their loot largely replaced with ROGs, so people circle around between the easiest ones over and over. Also, because the feather system favors the SI epic dungeons for farming feathers-- once you've done a particular boss once, there is no reason to go back if you didn't get the named item (non-rog) you wanted from him. All ROG farming boils down to farming the same popular high purp camps in your realm or in DF--- or hitting the same bosses again and again because they are simple to form up for and kill and their mechanics are widely known. I don't think this is server killing, its not really a QQ, there is still plenty to do and I still appreciate the server greatly-- it is just weird to love the server and all its great QOL changes and then feel like something is missing. Thanks if you read this far.

**Edit, addition** This also affects leveling, when you can get ROGs from everything and there is no real benefit (exp item/ bonus exp) it leaves large swathes of the game empty.

Sat 9 Feb 2019 1:25 AM by rubaduck

I get where you're coming from, and I understand that the PVE here is quite different from other freeshards as you have:

a) Rogs

b) Feathers

Now pve was never the "charm" in Daoc. It usually the same as in PVP, zergy. Most people did not and do not like pve at all just want to get their templates done to move out in RvR as quickly as possible, and the system we see now cater a lot to those players (me included). They did however do some very drastic changes here on phoenix compared to how Live ever was, and that is the boss health mechanic and spell/style damage they take. Instead of just ML9 focus pull every boss down, here you need to bring a team and give an effort. Most of the content is done with just a group with the exception of the epic dungeons which is tuned to 4 groups minimum. Every boss has increased life, hence why you can't focus pull them because you run out of power long before they even are remotely dead, and spells / styles always hit for max damage on epic mobs. This is in my opinion a fantastic change, because it forces people to actually participate if they want to do pve.

The problem is loot tables. Hands down, I personally do not want loot table with any ToA stats, it is in my opinion not fitting for the game because you'll end up with mega farming one location and create a monopoly for the strongest farmers in pve, when the real rewards of the game should come from pvp. I get that I have to do SOME pve to do PvP and I am fine with that, but grinding? Hell no! But that limits the actual pool of stats that are beneficial to a character. I would LOVE to see more jewellery, but the fact is that with 50 utility jewllery , and spellcrafted armor you can get a solid template and never look back at it. Or you can get some sweet procs from the raids, or weapons with some nasty effects. But thats it, and to me personally that's fine. It gives me enough incentive to do the pve raids, but not focus on it.

Do you have some ideas yourself that can be beneficial to make pve better to benefit both pve and pvp side of the the game?

Sat 9 Feb 2019 1:41 AM by HelloPancake

@rubaduck Actually I posted some weeks ago about "mini relics" that epic bosses could drop that could later be stolen by an enemy realm and then break when recovered so that we would have to farm the boss again (minor bonuses like 5 percent cash drops/ Rps etc). I also think raid bosses should give a small number of RPs like a task might.. in lore these bosses are a threat to the realm and so it isn't too much of a stretch. I know you hate loot tables but expanding the ROG system so that each boss has a chance at his own unique proc or stat to appear on a ROG might see people travel to the various bosses -- or alternatively to avoid what might become forcing people to visit these bosses for their "unique" stats on ROGs -- just make the high utility rog chances and feathers go up the longer it has been since a boss has been killed/farmed. (This last one is my favorite idea) -- the bosses that are rarely killed for whatever reason will build their chances so high that they always drop something great... This would encourage spreading out and not just locking down a circuit of the same world bosses or SI dungeon

Sat 9 Feb 2019 3:44 AM by rubaduck

The relic system you're describing was something that came with Labyrinth expansion, and while it is and or was an interesting feature, the fact is that it doesn't really give you incentive to do anything with them. It dwindled out after a year or so on laby when the population were at around 10-15 k on Ywain. I personally wouldn't mind if they added it, but I wouldn't use it for anything. It will also be very unfamiliar to those who didn't played past ToA which is a lot by the way on Phoenix.

Rps for PVE is a no go, and I know you mean well with it but the problem is that any incentive that can increase the strength in pvp other then gear should be done in pvp, or else it will be a feature that people will take an advantage of and straight up abuse. That is unhealthy for the game because it takes people who could be in the RvR zone, and put them in a PvE zone to safely farm RP's. Regardless of how much it awards. To put it mild, healing in RVR nets you RP's, and that was a feature that was HEAVILY debated during the beta and is now so low you don't even notice it. So in perspective it is not a healthy mechanic to have, just to satisfy those who choose to play more pve and gain RR at the same time.

I like the idea of more stat specific RoG's dropping from zones or bosses. One of my biggest frustration now is finding TON'S of good RoG's but everything has a LOT of Thrust resistance, spirit resistance and crush resistance, but almost never energy resistance, matter resistance or body resistance. So every template is more skewered. It will also make the the zones more populated because if one zone has a higher chance of dropping rogs with xResistance type, people will circulate a lot more. Or maybe even just give the bosses that function instead of zones, I don't know. If it is possible then this will be very attractive to me.

Sat 9 Feb 2019 2:24 PM by Sepplord

The main problem i would have is that imo it would make certain zones/bosses more attractive to certain classes

Depending on the "must have" fearheritems, different classes have different resists already covered
That would lead to situations where people need others to join simply to help pur, while they can not get anything of worth for themselves.

I rather have the ability to build a group and kill bosses for ROGs and everyone having a chance at finding something usefull

Sat 9 Feb 2019 5:04 PM by HelloPancake

Which is why my favorite idea is to increase the chance of high utility ROGs and increase the feather reward based on how long since the boss was last killed--- that would see groups going to all four corners of the realm to check on bosses that aren't often killed.

Sat 9 Feb 2019 5:06 PM by Afuldan

HelloPancake wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 5:04 PM
Which is why my favorite idea is to increase the chance of high utility ROGs and increase the feather reward based on how long the boss hasn't been killed--- that would see groups going to all four corners of the realm to check on bosses that aren't often killed.

There should be a cap on util though. You want to get a 90+ util? Dragon. 80ish util like the SI necklace at most. Boost feathers, but the highest util rogs should stay with the toughest PvE mobs in the game.

Thu 14 Feb 2019 10:19 PM by ashmir_daoc

I disagree with the OP. I'm someone who (used to) only cares about RvR; 8v8 and 8vX specifically. PVE in this game for me was always just a 'get it done asap' so I could RvR. The rog system actually introduces an element to this game that it never had for me: The Item Hunt. I never looked at any item drops in the past; I knew what items I needed for my template and didn't care about anything else, so all you ended up doing was a few quests and killing 8,000 warshadows. Now, from 1 till even after 50, I check out every drop. Every time a rog drops, I get excited, because it can be an upgrade for what I'm currently wearing, or at 50, it could be a potentially fantastic template item. It brings an element I loved from Diablo into the mix.

So, to me, Rogs have made pve exponentially more satisfying. Thank you, devs!

Mon 18 Feb 2019 9:40 PM by DinoTriz

I see where OP is coming from.

That being said, high end dungeons still drop unique items. Maybe only the main SI raid though.

But I get it. It doesn't really incentivize someone to reach out and kill a specific boss somewhere.

I do like the RoG system though. Reminds me of Borderlands kind of. Not as crazy, but similar.

Tue 19 Feb 2019 12:06 AM by waffel

Can a solo get high Util roll ROGs killing high red/low purple mobs or are they only available to groups killing high purple?

Thu 28 Feb 2019 2:46 PM by illike

waffel wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 12:06 AM
Can a solo get high Util roll ROGs killing high red/low purple mobs or are they only available to groups killing high purple?

I also would love to know this

Thu 28 Feb 2019 3:19 PM by Ceen

There is no satisfying PvE except for ML runs done first time.