The Jedi Dilemma - Fairness, equality, and oh so much whining

Started 24 May 2019
by TsunamiSurprise
in Tavern
I've noticed that players are complaining a lot, these days. There have been a lot of changes, and the game doesn't exist without players. Make sure that when you're upset about something... you realize that a whole game is out there. Otherwise, your actions can directly and negatively impact the environment you're facing.

Once upon a time, there was an amazing MMO called Star Wars Galaxies. It was the first to ever hit 1 million subscribers (beating WoW narrowly), and snaked a lot of the players from DAoC. It was an awesome game that was filled with complicated game mechanics. When you'd learn one thing, you'd discover 12 more you need to figure out. And it goes on and on. After a year or so- you'd know it all... but this discovery and how classes integrate... it was mysitcal.

This was enough to keep players busy. They loved the game. A few balance tweaks were made, but the game was mostly an amazing time-sink that gathered very little criticism from players.

And then, I unlocked my Force Sensitive character. It was awesome. Finally, I got to be a Jedi. I trained for what felt like years (was days or maybe a week) and was making progress. Then, I was hit by lag and killed. This meant permadeath. But I was fine with it.

Cue the whining.

At this time, other Jedi began to come into the game- and facing lag, died in the same way. This permadeath was frustrating... because it wasn't even well deserved and you just lose your character. Still, in the live of a character some statistics were calculated that said the average Jedi would only face this kind of lag once or twice throughout their levelling progression.

The devs, wanting to appease the disgruntled players made it a 3-strikes and you're deleted change. I actually welcomed this, but I thought it was fine without it.

Just to give you a feel of how awesome Jedi were... I remember being in my apartment- hiding from the rest of the Universe. Bounty Hunters could get millions of credits for taking down a Jedi, so every player tried to find a way to lure out Jedis if they could find them (and call in their clan to help mop up the mess). I noticed a stationary red blip on my radar, and inquired in global chat about whomever it was. The blip ignored my hails. I assumed it was a bug- but I thought just to be safe... I'm going to relog. I relogged, and it was still there. I assumed it was a bug, because I waited for a few hours and the blip remained. I exited my dwelling and was immediately shot at (preventing me from re-entering my house aka.. safety). What ensued was a pincer of red blips. I have no idea how many, but I'd guess 13 total people came to attack me.

I was fighting for my life, now. This was it. Me vs them. If I win, I get to keep my life. If they win, millions of credits. It hardly seemed fair, but what followed was the most intense PvP experience of my life. Stunning people, big dps bursting, finding the medics... it was insane. With 12 of them down, I knocked out the bounty hunter and taunted him. I messaged him telling him that he's going to need at least 26, next time. I finished him and that was the end from this rag-tag group. Think about it... hours to camp me just to end in vain. They'd given up. 13 people spending 3 hours... it's too much. There are much better ways to profit.

Jedi were unbalanced. This is the way it was intended. It was awesome. You aren't supposed to engage with them- and they can lose everything for pking too many people (or walking into crowds to fight... everyone could engage with them). The players weren't supportive.

Cue the whining.

Jedis were nerfed so that they could take out 3 or 4 people- but probably not 10 anymore. Not unless they were really asleep at the wheel.

This was savage, because I could now be killed much more easily- and yet there's nothing special I get for winning. At this point, I sold my character on eBay for $1300 USD ($8.2 million USD by today's equivalence). But I continued to play the game.

People got upset that they couldn't find out how to become a Jedi. So the devs released the trick through a holocron system. They let everyone know how to attain it.

People were still upset. They thought it took too long and was too hard, they wanted another way.

The devs now completely changed everything, but added an easier path to Jedi (the Village). Jedi now lost permadeath, but could take out 2-3 of the best players in the game. This was a meh...

The players still thought Jedi was too difficult. So, they made it easier. They lowered difficulties to everything. Jedis had to be nerfed again (due to the growing number) and so they could take out probably 1-elite player and 1 medium skilled one.

The players still were unhappy- and eventually, Jedi became a selectable class at the character creation screen. They were nerfed completely to the point of only being on par (or worse) than every other character in the game.

The players grew bored of this, and quit the game en masse. Afterwards, the game couldn't support itself and the game shut down.

Sound similar to another thing we see going on?

Stop whining just because things aren't going your way. Express your ideas, ask why they're going the direction they are, accept it and move on.
Sun 26 May 2019 12:35 PM by Luluko
is there a tldr somewhere?
Sun 26 May 2019 2:37 PM by Jatar
The good old days of SWG pre-cu! One of my guildmates sold his account for around that much as well. His char name was Brell or something like that. I had a low lvl jedi, named Rataj, and sold mine for $800 just before the fall!
Was the best game ever, until they patched it to death!

Have you been playing on SWGEMU? I checked it out and had some fun for awhile, but just couldn't get back into it.
Sun 26 May 2019 3:55 PM by TsunamiSurprise
I played on swg emu for a lil bit, but only a few days.

But yeah, the tldr is- If you whine too much about a game being broken (when it isn't broken, but you're just not handed everything you want on day one) and the whines gain momentum- the devs must patch it. If the devs patch your shitty idea, you ruin the game.
Sun 26 May 2019 5:28 PM by Luluko
TsunamiSurprise wrote:
Sun 26 May 2019 3:55 PM
I played on swg emu for a lil bit, but only a few days.

But yeah, the tldr is- If you whine too much about a game being broken (when it isn't broken, but you're just not handed everything you want on day one) and the whines gain momentum- the devs must patch it. If the devs patch your shitty idea, you ruin the game.

thanks for tldr version

guess not much of a point in arguing then if you disregard every valid critism/feedback as whines but I try to give some points.
The server is out for 2-3 months now, I think thats hardly day one but the start of the usual decline of daoc freeshards, obviously the devs cant do everything at once if they do it in their free time but they certainly had the time to write that a lot of features people want they arent willing to not even discuss. So guess you have a point aswell arguing/whining wont help anything here only to stop playing. But that wont help anyone who likes daoc tho since you need a population for rvr.

Currently my desire to login is at 0 and I dont even know if any changes would even motivate me anymore maybe the time for that has already passed but thats just me and most of the people with which I used to play with.
Sun 26 May 2019 6:15 PM by TsunamiSurprise
Where did I disregard all criticism as whines?

Look at some of these threads. It's the same point posted over and over for 8 pages. It's disgusting. You think that doesn't have a negative affect on both morale- and the direction the game is going? It does.

I mean, it's strange that you want to post about a game you have 0 desire to play- and then you admit you will never have any desire regardless of what changes come.

Why even bother? You're legit just being a troll. If you've made up your mind and nobody can change it, just start playing WoW or something.
Sun 26 May 2019 7:12 PM by Luluko
TsunamiSurprise wrote:
Sun 26 May 2019 6:15 PM
Look at some of these threads. It's the same point posted over and over for 8 pages. It's disgusting. You think that doesn't have a negative affect on both morale- and the direction the game is going? It does.

I mean, it's strange that you want to post about a game you have 0 desire to play- and then you admit you will never have any desire regardless of what changes come.

Why even bother? You're legit just being a troll. If you've made up your mind and nobody can change it, just start playing WoW or something.
You know what has more of an impact or on the morale than a few people complaining? If the devs just say "not gonna happen anytime soon" or "we have no plans for that" especially if you consider the likes and participation on some threads. Thats like having elections or debats in a dictatorship its just pointless and you are just there for arguing . Way more than a little heated discourse after all its the internet and if you have thick skin no problem really.

Its not strange to post about a game you used to play a lot . And who is the troll here? I never played wow. Guess that I wanted to have a tldr version got under your skin a little dont take that personal my attention span is pretty short these days, guess next time I wont even ask saves me the trouble to explain myself to someone like you who seems like a very ignorant person. (no offense)
Sun 26 May 2019 9:15 PM by phixion
Luluko wrote:
Sun 26 May 2019 12:35 PM
is there a tldr somewhere?

Basically, if you don't like a change, suck it up champ!
Mon 27 May 2019 4:00 AM by TsunamiSurprise
Luluko wrote:
Sun 26 May 2019 7:12 PM
TsunamiSurprise wrote:
Sun 26 May 2019 6:15 PM
Look at some of these threads. It's the same point posted over and over for 8 pages. It's disgusting. You think that doesn't have a negative affect on both morale- and the direction the game is going? It does.

I mean, it's strange that you want to post about a game you have 0 desire to play- and then you admit you will never have any desire regardless of what changes come.

Why even bother? You're legit just being a troll. If you've made up your mind and nobody can change it, just start playing WoW or something.
You know what has more of an impact or on the morale than a few people complaining? If the devs just say "not gonna happen anytime soon" or "we have no plans for that" especially if you consider the likes and participation on some threads. Thats like having elections or debats in a dictatorship its just pointless and you are just there for arguing . Way more than a little heated discourse after all its the internet and if you have thick skin no problem really.

Its not strange to post about a game you used to play a lot . And who is the troll here? I never played wow. Guess that I wanted to have a tldr version got under your skin a little dont take that personal my attention span is pretty short these days, guess next time I wont even ask saves me the trouble to explain myself to someone like you who seems like a very ignorant person. (no offense)

The TLDR proved you needed to be spoonfed. You don't value learning or experience, you just try for instant gratification. I'd bet this is a recurring theme in your life, and you're projecting upset feelings onto me. You're probably frustrated that something you enjoyed changed somehow.

You are, by definition, trolling this board. You don't like the game and you have said nothing they can do will make you come back. Still, you want to browse the forums? Why? You have so many friends here? I dunno, man. Just strange actions. I was happy to point this out, so that you could admit that you really wanted to go back to the game... and you just needed an outlet to vent.

But unfortunately for you, I know how to deal with trolls. You stop responding. You stop giving in to their need for attention. They go away quickly.
Mon 27 May 2019 9:31 AM by Luluko
TsunamiSurprise wrote:
Mon 27 May 2019 4:00 AM
Luluko wrote:
Sun 26 May 2019 7:12 PM
TsunamiSurprise wrote:
Sun 26 May 2019 6:15 PM
Look at some of these threads. It's the same point posted over and over for 8 pages. It's disgusting. You think that doesn't have a negative affect on both morale- and the direction the game is going? It does.

I mean, it's strange that you want to post about a game you have 0 desire to play- and then you admit you will never have any desire regardless of what changes come.

Why even bother? You're legit just being a troll. If you've made up your mind and nobody can change it, just start playing WoW or something.
You know what has more of an impact or on the morale than a few people complaining? If the devs just say "not gonna happen anytime soon" or "we have no plans for that" especially if you consider the likes and participation on some threads. Thats like having elections or debats in a dictatorship its just pointless and you are just there for arguing . Way more than a little heated discourse after all its the internet and if you have thick skin no problem really.

Its not strange to post about a game you used to play a lot . And who is the troll here? I never played wow. Guess that I wanted to have a tldr version got under your skin a little dont take that personal my attention span is pretty short these days, guess next time I wont even ask saves me the trouble to explain myself to someone like you who seems like a very ignorant person. (no offense)

The TLDR proved you needed to be spoonfed. You don't value learning or experience, you just try for instant gratification. I'd bet this is a recurring theme in your life, and you're projecting upset feelings onto me. You're probably frustrated that something you enjoyed changed somehow.

You are, by definition, trolling this board. You don't like the game and you have said nothing they can do will make you come back. Still, you want to browse the forums? Why? You have so many friends here? I dunno, man. Just strange actions. I was happy to point this out, so that you could admit that you really wanted to go back to the game... and you just needed an outlet to vent.

But unfortunately for you, I know how to deal with trolls. You stop responding. You stop giving in to their need for attention. They go away quickly.
I said I dont think they can do anything to motivate me right now. Who knows maybe in a few weeks thats different.

And I think I will take that advice in your last line thats certainly the wisest you wrote even tho you should apply those standards to your own ego sometimes .
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