Is soloing dead? (At least for NA hours)

Started 23 May 2019
by LedriTheThane
in Tavern
Before I begin, I've always enjoyed playing the unorthodox, hybrid roles in mmorpg's. I understand they were never really the meta, but you know what? FUCK the meta. So please, I don't want to hear the whole "well you play a solo thane!!!"

Ever since the buff charge/pot changes, I haven't found nearly as many solo fights as I had used to. It's getting to the point where it's too aggravating as a solo player to want to continue this playstyle. I get the visi solo life is cruel as it is, but I'd at least have a record of something like, 20-15 pretty consistently. In my past fifteen or so solo sessions, there was only twice where I hadn't gone somewhere around a 3-10 ratio. I mean, sure, I'm not going to have great days soloing every single time. I get it, because it has happened prior to these changes. Usually whenever I have one of these off days, I just log off and call it a day and try again tomorrow. Happened to me with other video games too where I'd join a match, miss every shot, and then say "yep, not today lol".

Now, I'm not complaining about me being ran over here (as it's inevitable and a part of the game), but I can't find a single damn fight to make up for me being squashed anymore it feels like. I understand there is the whole "well, it sounds like you're having bad luck" but I don't think it's just that. It would be too coincidental to consider it all bad luck when there's a dramatic enough change in game and connectivity issues too. About a month ago, most of my fights were assassin's, but it's gotten to the point where the only stealthers I see consistently are the three realm rank 6 rangers that are normally in front of the mpk in Hadrian's, and the group of 6-7 alb stealthers in front of the mpk in Emain.

Also I understand not everyone had quit because of the buff charge/pot changes, but the backlash of the DDOSing as of late too. I'm just wondering from any actual soloers that might read this, have you quit? Do you find plenty of action and I'm just truly unlucky? If so, why? Doesn't need to necessarily be quitting Phoenix, but just soloing.
Thu 23 May 2019 11:30 PM by Bumbles
I stopped running a solo Visi a while back. It was either that or stop playing on the server. I was so pumped for the last event thinking MAYBE Solo players would be thrown a bone, a simple place they could play and while I didn't want 1v1 at least it was a quasi free for all and that is always fun. Now I play a solo Scout and I think about going back to Live on a daily basis...we shall see.
Fri 24 May 2019 12:19 AM by Luluko
cant say much havent really played solo 50 since the charges nerf, you could make a solo toon for thid if nothing goes in HW but solo action also depends heavily who has the ck and what time it is. But I wouldnt be surprised if most solo players stopped by now most should have been rr7+ by now and after that the progression gets so slow thats not really motivating to go on especially if nots really fun and you are most of the time just dodging grps.
Fri 24 May 2019 12:40 AM by Joc
No issue soloing here, but I am playing a stealth class. I can't imagine what its like playing a solo visi currently. I'd probably just play something else tbh.
Fri 24 May 2019 1:40 AM by gotwqqd
LedriTheThane wrote:
Thu 23 May 2019 11:23 PM
Before I begin, I've always enjoyed playing the unorthodox, hybrid roles in mmorpg's. I understand they were never really the meta, but you know what? FUCK the meta. So please, I don't want to hear the whole "well you play a solo thane!!!"

Ever since the buff charge/pot changes, I haven't found nearly as many solo fights as I had used to. It's getting to the point where it's too aggravating as a solo player to want to continue this playstyle. I get the visi solo life is cruel as it is, but I'd at least have a record of something like, 20-15 pretty consistently. In my past fifteen or so solo sessions, there was only twice where I hadn't gone somewhere around a 3-10 ratio. I mean, sure, I'm not going to have great days soloing every single time. I get it, because it has happened prior to these changes. Usually whenever I have one of these off days, I just log off and call it a day and try again tomorrow. Happened to me with other video games too where I'd join a match, miss every shot, and then say "yep, not today lol".

Now, I'm not complaining about me being ran over here (as it's inevitable and a part of the game), but I can't find a single damn fight to make up for me being squashed anymore it feels like. I understand there is the whole "well, it sounds like you're having bad luck" but I don't think it's just that. It would be too coincidental to consider it all bad luck when there's a dramatic enough change in game and connectivity issues too. About a month ago, most of my fights were assassin's, but it's gotten to the point where the only stealthers I see consistently are the three realm rank 6 rangers that are normally in front of the mpk in Hadrian's, and the group of 6-7 alb stealthers in front of the mpk in Emain.

Also I understand not everyone had quit because of the buff charge/pot changes, but the backlash of the DDOSing as of late too. I'm just wondering from any actual soloers that might read this, have you quit? Do you find plenty of action and I'm just truly unlucky? If so, why? Doesn't need to necessarily be quitting Phoenix, but just soloing.
I think your excursions and record need to be put in context.
Are you losing now vs multiples? Not winning anymore vs multiples and not crushing solo encounters? Maybe you were overpowered and the changes were justified.

Or is your tally only based on straight up 1v1 fights.
And who are you winning and losing to?
Fri 24 May 2019 1:53 AM by Bumbles
Pretty sure it's just a matter of not finding solo players anymore. Basically when servers are new there is a boom in population and people remember why they loved this game. After a while that dies down and you are left with the rest. We are in the after portion now.
Fri 24 May 2019 1:54 AM by LedriTheThane
gotwqqd wrote:
Fri 24 May 2019 1:40 AM
LedriTheThane wrote:
Thu 23 May 2019 11:23 PM
Before I begin, I've always enjoyed playing the unorthodox, hybrid roles in mmorpg's. I understand they were never really the meta, but you know what? FUCK the meta. So please, I don't want to hear the whole "well you play a solo thane!!!"

Ever since the buff charge/pot changes, I haven't found nearly as many solo fights as I had used to. It's getting to the point where it's too aggravating as a solo player to want to continue this playstyle. I get the visi solo life is cruel as it is, but I'd at least have a record of something like, 20-15 pretty consistently. In my past fifteen or so solo sessions, there was only twice where I hadn't gone somewhere around a 3-10 ratio. I mean, sure, I'm not going to have great days soloing every single time. I get it, because it has happened prior to these changes. Usually whenever I have one of these off days, I just log off and call it a day and try again tomorrow. Happened to me with other video games too where I'd join a match, miss every shot, and then say "yep, not today lol".

Now, I'm not complaining about me being ran over here (as it's inevitable and a part of the game), but I can't find a single damn fight to make up for me being squashed anymore it feels like. I understand there is the whole "well, it sounds like you're having bad luck" but I don't think it's just that. It would be too coincidental to consider it all bad luck when there's a dramatic enough change in game and connectivity issues too. About a month ago, most of my fights were assassin's, but it's gotten to the point where the only stealthers I see consistently are the three realm rank 6 rangers that are normally in front of the mpk in Hadrian's, and the group of 6-7 alb stealthers in front of the mpk in Emain.

Also I understand not everyone had quit because of the buff charge/pot changes, but the backlash of the DDOSing as of late too. I'm just wondering from any actual soloers that might read this, have you quit? Do you find plenty of action and I'm just truly unlucky? If so, why? Doesn't need to necessarily be quitting Phoenix, but just soloing.
I think your excursions and record need to be put in context.
Are you losing now vs multiples? Not winning anymore vs multiples and not crushing solo encounters? Maybe you were overpowered and the changes were justified.

Or is your tally only based on straight up 1v1 fights.
And who are you winning and losing to?

My record of 20-15 was my entire session. Some of these fights were me crushing people, some were me getting ran over. It evens out. Same with the 3-10 that it is now. I figured I clarified enough when I said solo session. I meant every deathblow and death. And yes, I'm losing many more multiples now. Not that I won many multiples in the first place, but I'm losing more now because that's all I find. Bard/whatever, Minstrel/whatever. It happens more than ever.

I don't think the changes were justified. It was a extremely small step to go and get the charge items and utilize them, and all real soloers would go out of their way to min/max like that. Soloing in a game like this is only meant for those that want to perform at an extreme peak. I very doubt a rr5/6 thane would be that OP to begin with.
Fri 24 May 2019 6:02 AM by Sepplord
the first few days after the change i felt like MORE soloers wer running, many low-RRs too...
since then the albstealthzerg has grown bigger and uglier imo
but those are small sample sizes, and the albs stealthzerg has always been big, maybe i just ran into one more often the last few days


i believe if there is a bigger shift in population than before, it would be more fault of the DDOS. I know quite a few people that wouldn't put up with it, they simply play something else instead of logging in 5times, LDing in between and having stutters during the rest.
Loosing hasterner speed due to LD when you just arrived at the milegate for example is also quite frustrating, especially for solo-visis
Fri 24 May 2019 6:30 AM by Pbuck
Action has dropped off significantly compared to some weeks ago( pre charge nerf,pre ddos ). I believe it is the inevitable devolution of daoc freeshards, as eventually you keep finding less but also harder to kill enemies until action becomes too bad to continue. Phoenix had managed to slow down this process by a lot and retain much of the original population until they decided to follow Uthgard's example and start "fixing" things no one wanted fixed- at least not in the way it was done-, and here we are. All in all, though , Uthgard, while being a terrible server for casuals and people with little time to play, did manage to survive for 1.5 years , so I doubt phoenix is at any risk any time soon. The only question is, if the game will be interesting to you and others like you, when the server reaches the final stable population state.Will the solo/small man scene still be around as a play style option then?
Fri 24 May 2019 6:32 AM by Arthoras
i play my hero for only 3 weeks now (a bit late to the party...) and i am 90% of time solo. for my luck i dont bought the charge items in my first week and then the changes were going live, so i never used the charges... so i cant miss them. for me soloing was allways fun on live. and it is fun here too, but it hardly depends on the time when you go out there.

the first week of my 3 weeks of play a was on holidays. it was fantastic. i found so many fights and had a lot of fun cause i could prevent the prime times. but now? on europian prime time it is nearly impossible to found a fight... naa... thats a lie. i found fights, but it is impossible to end them in time, so that the fight that started as 1v1 will stay a 1v1.

i had days with only 5 fights in my whole online time ( i am online for 2 to 3 hours on a working day)... then there are days with a lot of fights... others with no fights.

What i recognize is that the solos get fewer. you learn the names when you fight the same people most of the time. and i miss a lot of names the last days. but its clear. the OF regions are very small with a lot of choke points. its nearly impossible to pass the choke points in primetime. in nf you had so many entrypoints that the mass was equalizing better. but with only two entrypoints and a long walk you dont have a good distribution of people. And i think that many of the solo players from the other realms are NA... or must have other working time than my, so i never saw them.

Nevertheless i try it every day. i really like the challenge to go solo - and when i am unlucky and only found grps, or smallmen... ya... then its unlucky and i try agian. Nevermind.

(i hope this post is understandable.... my english is not that good, so i dont post very often in this forum)
Fri 24 May 2019 8:11 AM by Fames
Solo friar here, close to the point of giving up.
It was hard before, yes, but you ocasionally found a solo fight or a 1on2 / 1on3 you could kill something.

Solo stealther did not attack me anyways (or very rare), but when they did, some even beat me (don't know how that happened, i was told i could go afk and RA5 would win the fight while i was stunned).

Some of the solo stealther just stopped soloing (i feel like there are more hunter/sb duos now, than there are solo hunter and solo sbs combined).

And then there is the Zerg.
I tried HW and Odins at EU Prime, but mostly you get overrun by a fgh, which i kinda understand, since they have a harder time getting to emain.

So last option is emain. While it is hard, it still gave me better fights than HW/Odins.


Since i had a week off this week, i figured i could try soloing at EU mornings and middays, but in the morning there is hibzerg everywhere (most of the mornings this week, hib had more people in RvR than mid and alb combined) , that gets later on substituted by mid zerg. There are very rare occasions where you have a chance of getting through AMG.

So i started leveling a new toon.

I will try again , now that they made RA useless (i wouldnt even spend 5 Points into new RA5) and hope sneaks start attacking me again.

BR
Funus
Fri 24 May 2019 8:33 AM by Druth
As population dwindles, zerging will become less prominent.

Eventually it will settle upon mainly groups fighting each other and stealthers fighting each other.
Might be a little wriggle-room for visi solo, but doubt it.
Fri 24 May 2019 12:23 PM by Luluko
Fames wrote:
Fri 24 May 2019 8:11 AM
I will try again , now that they made RA useless (i wouldnt even spend 5 Points into new RA5) and hope sneaks start attacking me again.

BR
Funus

Huh havent read anything in the patchnotes about that how was RA nerfed exactly?
Fri 24 May 2019 12:55 PM by Gotmagi
I still find fights even though I only play like 60-90 minutes a night. The biggest problem is probably that people simply don't want to put in the effort to solo, people want to win and they hate to lose. Thats why the vast majority of soloers are playing assassins, they can destroy most other classes 1v1, pick off weak targets very easily and hide from full grps.

The biggest drawback to visible solo right now is not that I don't have speed, have to run long distances or die to duos/trios.. but the fact that every single guild grp/pug chases you and zergs you down without mercy, for very little gain. I've had guild grps chase me into a whole bunch of keep guards and waste multiple ra's/instas just to get some measly 200 rps. That mentality will never change so the few visible soloers left will be forced to either A) Go insane, B) make an assassin class or C) Quit playing.

The nights where you have 8 deaths and 1-2 solo kills can be pretty depressing
Fri 24 May 2019 1:03 PM by kratoxin
Gotmagi wrote:
Fri 24 May 2019 12:55 PM
I still find fights even though I only play like 60-90 minutes a night. The biggest problem is probably that people simply don't want to put in the effort to solo, people want to win and they hate to lose. Thats why the vast majority of soloers are playing assassins, they can destroy most other classes 1v1, pick off weak targets very easily and hide from full grps.

The biggest drawback to visible solo right now is not that I don't have speed, have to run long distances or die to duos/trios.. but the fact that every single guild grp/pug chases you and zergs you down without mercy, for very little gain. I've had guild grps chase me into a whole bunch of keep guards and waste multiple ra's/instas just to get some measly 200 rps. That mentality will never change so the few visible soloers left will be forced to either A) Go insane, B) make an assassin class or C) Quit playing.

The nights where you have 8 deaths and 1-2 solo kills can be pretty depressing
I agree with you, that's why OF is very devastating for visi solo's all in all due to the choke points. If we had a NF kind of atmosphere it would change a lot of things imo making it more desirable to play a visi solo. As i play a Savage solo a lot, or try to at least..
Fri 24 May 2019 6:29 PM by spyderz33
Here is my 2 cents..

I agree with Ledri. Since the recent changes with buffs, this server has seen a drop in "solo" players or just regular players that liked to group small man. It could just be coincidence because players get burned out, however all at the same time?? When you mess with buff changes, it changes the "preferred" stats that some players WANT. Now, I am aware that some people are all for the buff changes and they were glad with the changes. But I didn't see the population dip so drastic because you hated the purple/charges. Mostly people were just annoyed at the timing of juggling the charges. Every night I was excited to log in and know that I was going to find fights as soon as I come out of the PK, get my solo fight and then probably get rolled by a group. Now it takes 15-30 minutes or longer to find a solo fight and still get rolled by a group. I'd also like to point out that with the recent changes I have seen more and more stealther group, even the rare ones that used to solo 100% of the time. I am not opposed to stealthers grouping, its part of the game. But, now you just hurt the visible solo players because now they don't have much of a shot when you get 3 Perfs or 3 Snipes to the face... The buff changes caused soloers to lose their source of realm points... Would also like to point out that with other recent changes hardly anyone wants to fight in Hadrians and Odins. Why would they when its easy for Mids and Albs can just port to emain and fight each other (sorry Hibernia). I think most of us just wanted a change in how much it cost to recharge or fix a way so we could stop juggling within a 10 min duration. Honestly, I wouldn't have any issue with the recharge cost as long as the duration of the buff was increased higher than 10 mins. And if no one liked juggling/recharging then just add the S/C D/Q purple buffs to combined forces and call it a day instead of nerfing the value. Yes we can all pay monthly and go back to live but how does that help Phoenix server. A majority came to Phoenix because it was a gem, something that brought nostalgia to us and felt like it was going in the right direction. It doesn't feel like that anymore. I really hope there are some upcoming POSITIVE changes that will bring back the community that we once had.
Sat 25 May 2019 5:04 AM by Runental
What community do you actually talk about?
As much as I like the server, I have to admit, the community here and Uthgard 2 is/was the worst I have ever seen on any server when it comes to PvP activities of any kind.
Anonymity and counter strike mentality all over the place, - RP greedy people since server release.
Noone cares about others but himself.
Back in the days on live servers and Uthgard 1, there was some kind of respect for your realmmates and even your enemies, where everyone had a place in the whole daoc universe.
This community thing is gone since years,- just hunting the next RR up, switch realm, steamrolling the same people you've played with 24 hours ago, insult & denounce not so skilled players in Discord, repeat... Daoc lives from a community,- no community, no longevity.. Always the same cycle.
The average daoc player from today want all as fast and easy as possible and hide behind his forum/discord/ingame Avatar. Long live the digital Anonymity!!!
Pure soloing here on Phoenix is almost impossible, and if you still try to pure run solo then you definitely have a masochistic predisposition.
Tumbs up anyway who still try to run solo, especially non speed visible ones.

/Runental
Sat 25 May 2019 6:40 AM by Pbuck
Contrary to what is expected, having less players and therefore less zergs does not equal a better solo experience. What really happens is that zones other than Emain remain mostly empty of solo/small man activity with the occasional appearance of some group who for some reason prefers to hunt solos and not go Emain. Eventually only Emain will have any decent action for anyone participating in RvR, but solos cant really play there unless they stick to the zerg and leech, but that is probably not the preferred play style for someone running solo.
Sat 25 May 2019 6:41 AM by lurker
As a minstrel who used to run out solo a bit - I can tell you I don’t bother anymore.

As a small man focused guild/group (c. Typically 3) I can tell you that we don’t bother running to find decent small man fights any more.

We take what we can get when we can get it.

That said... as the population decreases zerging will decrease but that will do little to change the ‘Zerg em down’ attitudes of most 8 man groups towards solo/small out there. So not sure it will improve much until the community comes to some form of consensus (area) for doing this stuff in.
Sat 25 May 2019 8:20 AM by cage
soloing for what? if you know the patch settings, you know which are the most OP solo chars. if you play this chars, you ll get some kills but after some weeks getting zerged, added and attacked by fg of stealthers the most quit the fun of running between mmg to amg and back.

* cant believe im saying that, but new frontiers is missing. dunno if TOA is, but nf for sure. port to breifine/jamt/pennine. spd potions or horses for non spd classes to solo.
Sat 25 May 2019 9:27 AM by grated
I'd say we have a combination of players realizing the game has the same issues it had years ago, nostalgia wearing off, and DDOS. ESO has a nice approach to soloing - everyone is able to hide, everyone has access to the same speed, everyone has access to the same stat buffs. These two combined give solos the ability to choose their fights (control). In DAoC solos lack control and it's frustrating. I don't take my runie out because the chance of a good fun fight is so low that it's not worth it - I'll get run down by visis or ganked by stealths.

NF helps because the choke points are removed. ToA helps with prescience nodes and traps, stealther movement is restricted.

While I'm sure a few salty players quit when the charge changes were made, it's not a significant factor. It's effect is greatly exaggerated.
Sat 25 May 2019 9:39 AM by Smilo
grated wrote:
Sat 25 May 2019 9:27 AM
ESO has a nice approach to soloing - everyone is able to hide, everyone has access to the same speed, everyone has access to the same stat buffs. These two combined give solos the ability to choose their fights (control). In DAoC solos lack control and it's frustrating.

I loved to solo on ESO... much better than DAOC. Roaming between villages hunting and questing at the same time was awesome.
Too bad battles are basically blob vs blob... it makes DAOC zergs look like an organized force.
Sat 25 May 2019 10:18 AM by Luluko
Runental wrote:
Sat 25 May 2019 5:04 AM
steamrolling the same people you've played with 24 hours ago

whats wrong with that? red is dead. If you come back over and over again thats your fault. Cant expect people respect everyone they grped with or even remember the names. By that logic If you grp with too many people you wont be able to attack anyone anymore.
Sat 25 May 2019 6:01 PM by Cadebrennus
grated wrote:
Sat 25 May 2019 9:27 AM
I'd say we have a combination of players realizing the game has the same issues it had years ago, nostalgia wearing off, and DDOS. ESO has a nice approach to soloing - everyone is able to hide, everyone has access to the same speed, everyone has access to the same stat buffs. These two combined give solos the ability to choose their fights (control). In DAoC solos lack control and it's frustrating. I don't take my runie out because the chance of a good fun fight is so low that it's not worth it - I'll get run down by visis or ganked by stealths.

NF helps because the choke points are removed. ToA helps with prescience nodes and traps, stealther movement is restricted.

While I'm sure a few salty players quit when the charge changes were made, it's not a significant factor. It's effect is greatly exaggerated.

Stealth eating endurance is one of the greatest contributions ESO made to mmorpg stealth classes. Absolutely brilliant.
Sat 25 May 2019 10:19 PM by Anelyn77
The novelty isn't there anymore really. It's not like it use to be where you're hooked up and live to play DaoC, get better at your class, get better gear, learn tactics vs other classes etc and keep going at it.

Now people actually stop playing if it isn't fun (for various reasons) and go do something else that is fun, it's 2019 after all.

If I'm on my skald heading into HW or Odins and 3-4 peeps grouped gank me repeatedly near entrance despite I don't attack them or blow RA's to try to get through, and am RS and won't even give them any RPs then I'll just stop doing it, log out, go watch some movies or play other games, or go out with buddies and have fun. I don't have to reach a number of RP's per day or anything.

Now with Molvik test ground this weekend, I presume it's a good hint that we will get NF in 3-5 months (depending how long it takes them to develop it), because as it is, OF is simply too small to accommodate everyone (plus hibs having problems getting to emain where most action is). With NF we will have plenty of room to make everyone happy, 1v1, stealth zergs camping bridges, archers on towers shooting peeps running nearby, small men roaming, FG vs FG, and of course zerg vs zerg with sieges and what not.

The server isn't as old as original servers were, so that you could create a stealthers or soloers community on disco or what have you, and peeps would not add + respect others (ofc random small men / FG's would add and that's fine).

Simply put, if you don't have fun, just log and do something else with your time, nobody here can instantly resolve your problem (be it the community on forums, other players in game, or the devs), it will take time to aleviate OF problems and bring more spark & fun to the game - IMHO.
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