Why do DAoC Emulators slowly start to die?

The recent buff patch hindered a lot of players - me included. It is obvious when DEVs decide to make this server, they only listen to the opinion of the public 30% of the time.

In the end, they will do as they wish to benefit what they want.

This server doesn't even feel like the Dark Age of Camelot anymore - the emphasis on 8-man and zerg fights is too apparent and it takes away a very important part of the game. You're killing the server that had a chance of a solid future but the constant and drastic changes are too impacting.

You are fiddling with the code and don't realize the impact it has on the numbers and the community. I've been here for a solid 4 months, non-stop, and this week I'm sure I wont be the only stealther leaving.

GL All, it's been fun.

Sat 11 May 2019 1:03 PM by vitu

k, cool. can I have your stuff?

Sat 11 May 2019 1:41 PM by dbeattie71

Stranded wrote: ↑
Sat 11 May 2019 12:58 PM
The recent buff patch hindered a lot of players - me included. It is obvious when DEVs decide to make this server, they only listen to the opinion of the public 30% of the time.

In the end, they will do as they wish to benefit what they want.

This server doesn't even feel like the Dark Age of Camelot anymore - the emphasis on 8-man and zerg fights is too apparent and it takes away a very important part of the game. You're killing the server that had a chance of a solid future but the constant and drastic changes are too impacting.

You are fiddling with the code and don't realize the impact it has on the numbers and the community. I've been here for a solid 4 months, non-stop, and this week I'm sure I wont be the only stealther leaving.

GL All, it's been fun.

Any free stuff by chance?

Sat 11 May 2019 1:55 PM by Taftaf

Got baited by that title. Should have been "qqqqqqqqqqqq"

Sat 11 May 2019 2:45 PM by sugaree

Stranded wrote: ↑
Sat 11 May 2019 12:58 PM
This server doesn't even feel like the Dark Age of Camelot anymore - the emphasis on 8-man and zerg fights is too apparent

Sounds like the same old DAOC to me brother...

Sat 11 May 2019 6:54 PM by Fayynne

A stealther is leaving? Oh no, whatever will we do.....

Sat 11 May 2019 7:53 PM by Riverseek3r

solid 4 months, non-stop?

Seriously? get a better hobby!

Sat 11 May 2019 8:25 PM by Effaermon

Well, I am sad to see you go and am happy you have stated why. The population has tanked significantly...I'd love to know why those missing folks left.

Sat 11 May 2019 10:17 PM by Luluko

certainly not the first and not last leaving because of that I have heard from at least 3 other people which arent happy about those changes and how its a nerf for solos that the buff value on charges and haste got lowered, while I like the change to the combined forces potion that other stuff shouldnt have been touched I hope its worth it just to keep a few people arround which specc in their buff specc line

While it doesnt affect me personally a lot since I dont play a stealther, but the direction is clear and broadsword mythic also had their thing for rarely listening to the solo community and if the small fishes leave even the big fishes will starve at one point. Live died also because of that and many other issues and it seems this server is trying to follow.

Sat 11 May 2019 10:29 PM by Sindralor

hey Stranded have a good one

People always start to belittle others
Make fun of them

but we all know whats gonna happen slowly but surely
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBfvlyEgqZk

Sun 12 May 2019 5:31 AM by lourock

Freeshards are a lot of fun the first month or so. I have played Genesis, uth 2 and now this one. They were all really fun for the first month. Everyone seems to race to get everything done. But then it gets stale. I can’t defend Uthgard devs they made a lot of mistakes however the player base of these shards tends to be the same crowd every time.

Another thing that I notice is that the freeshard players seem to take the game super serious , serious is never fun. People burn out on it, also like uth this server opened at the beginning of the year. Sorry but everyone who has any kind of RL besides maybe super obsessed low vitamin D people will take a break every time the weather gets nice.

Sun 12 May 2019 12:22 PM by chryso

I see a lot of posts like this but what I think they mean is: "I used to win a lot of fights because I was more buffed than the other guy. I can't win if everyone is buffed the same amount."

Sun 12 May 2019 2:03 PM by Luluko

chryso wrote: ↑
Sun 12 May 2019 12:22 PM
I see a lot of posts like this but what I think they mean is: "I used to win a lot of fights because I was more buffed than the other guy. I can't win if everyone is buffed the same amount."

more like " I used to be able to kill someone before the next sucker adds on me now I cant even take some rps with me when I die"

Sun 12 May 2019 6:01 PM by playtester99

Nostalgia wears off and alienation through poorly thought out changes.

Sun 12 May 2019 6:18 PM by Regulate

You should care when people leave, stealther or not tbh. What's wrong with this community? As if we're going to magically get more numbers playing DAOC in 2019.
Each loss is way more significant than other MMOs. You guys are petty and too focused on ingame tug-o-war to discuss game health.
Devs need solidarity to weather the storm of player complaints but when the complaints stop, everyone really loses. So add whatever .2 cents YOU think will help, but try not to aid in server destruction. please?

Sun 12 May 2019 6:39 PM by vitu

Regulate wrote: ↑
Sun 12 May 2019 6:18 PM
You should care when people leave, stealther or not tbh. What's wrong with this community? As if we're going to magically get more numbers playing DAOC in 2019.
Each loss is way more significant than other MMOs. You guys are petty and too focused on ingame tug-o-war to discuss game health.
Devs need solidarity to weather the storm of player complaints but when the complaints stop, everyone really loses. So add whatever .2 cents YOU think will help, but try not to aid in server destruction. please?

Why should we care?
This is a qq thread because that guy isn't happy with changes, he threatens to leave. Boo effin hoo.
Leave, if you don't like it any more, but don't cry like a 3 year old.

Sun 12 May 2019 8:56 PM by Jimmy0000

Stranded wrote: ↑
Sat 11 May 2019 12:58 PM
The recent buff patch hindered a lot of players - me included. It is obvious when DEVs decide to make this server, they only listen to the opinion of the public 30% of the time.

In the end, they will do as they wish to benefit what they want.

This server doesn't even feel like the Dark Age of Camelot anymore - the emphasis on 8-man and zerg fights is too apparent and it takes away a very important part of the game. You're killing the server that had a chance of a solid future but the constant and drastic changes are too impacting.

You are fiddling with the code and don't realize the impact it has on the numbers and the community. I've been here for a solid 4 months, non-stop, and this week I'm sure I wont be the only stealther leaving.

GL All, it's been fun.

The private server emulations that stay up the longest, are truest to the patch era they try to emulate, mechanically. Take the WOTLK icecrown/warmane server. It's pretty much an exact copy, mechanically, to WoW in 2008, plus a few QOL things added on, that are actually QOL and not 'balance decisions' It has so many players, even after it's been up for quite some time, you still have to que for an hour+ during NA primetime to get in line for the 3k player cap that is on the server.

Hell, even uthgard 1.0 stayed up with a halfway decent population for what? over 10 years? All the way up to mid 2015 it had like 350 people on, and about 650 on primetime.

This server should have tried to emulate it's predecessor Genesis. Genesis had the perfect philosophy; no intentional base mechanic changes (classes/combat etc) BUT... with QOL added on, such as faster leveling, and what not. All the classes had old RAs, and none of this 'everyone has everything' crap. If mythic thought that was balanced, again, they would have made it that way. They had professional testers they were paying actual money to, as well as actual designers they hired. They did what they did for a reason.
(Lol @ big, tank oriented individually strong mid groups constantly SOSing away, for example.)

The reason why this server has sprung a leak so fast, is it's almost totally customized, from a base mechanical point of view; I would think it would be obvious that daocers want to actually play DAOC, not DAOPHOENIX. Making a customized server like this defeats the entire purpose of trying to find a DAOC server to play DAOC on. Why this is lost on so many private server admins, is beyond me. The only explanation I can come up with, is most private servers that are highly customized are mainly making it for the staff and a select few like-minded people have something to play with (at the expense of the general player base) and see how long people will put up with it, and if they lose interest, and their server dies, pop-wise, they just go on to some other private server of some other game, and repeat the process.

That's basically the mindset of the staff on Warhammer RoR. As long as the staff is happy, and as long as they can buff the hell out of the one or two class archetypes they are biased toward so they can pwn everybody when they play, and as long as not too many people leave over it, then to hell with everyone else.

Further on Warhammer Online Return of Reckoning. it barely resembles live Warhammer Online, and it is highly biased, and the staff favors certain class archetypes, and favors one faction, similarly to this place. (Here's a good example of private server bias on RoR. There's this stat, called weaponskill; it counters highly tanky specs on live, ANYONE could stack it on ANY melee class on live, but RoR just disabled weaponskill from working by like 75 percent, then they go and hand out 50 percent armor penetration to the classes the staff are biased toward, which in turn makes weaponskill stacking useless, and the classes that have the 50 percent armor penetration no longer need weaponskill, so they can just concentrate on the main damage stat, and critical hits, thus screwing the TTK up since they are now Kenshiro basically, with no weaponskill needed. So you get these 1 or two classes that just breathe on you and you die. It's stupid as hell.) The only reason why it still has 200 people playing it (from the 3500 or so that it lost over the course of 4 years) is because it's not QUITE as biased as this server is.
And the beauty of the situation is... when a staff member on RoR got tired of the bias, and created his own live-like server, it was a MILLION times funner and more balanced with the live mechanics, thus defeating the "supposed" purpose of all the custom "balance" changes in the first place on RoR... Only reason why Apoc didn't go over as well, is because too many people had too much investment in RoR, and the devs screwed up and made ONE huge mistake (too many NPCS in PVP) On private servers, it seems like "balance" is a code-word for "bias" Apoc is still around though, and they're still trying to improve it.

Balance decisions on base mechanics are not, and never will have anything to do with QOL; something to take note of to whatever staff members see this.

Mon 13 May 2019 5:25 AM by Joc

I've had no issues with the new buff changes really. I'm still able to kill the same targets as I did prior. There are lots of changes from the core patch level I have liked, but some I have thought were not good. Overall the population is currently supporting rvr on a solo, small man, 8v8, and zerg scale. I know the population is dwindling, but it still has plenty to play and enjoy. If it gets to a critical level I'll likely go back to live.

The devs here have done a great job overall and have handle most of the issues quickly and fairly from my point of view. There are definitely things I would change if I was in charge, but I'm not. I'm not the one putting in the time (unpaid) to make the changes and try to balance this shard. I'm just playing the final product and enjoying it. No doubt this server is highly customized, but many of the changes were asked for by the player base. Guild chat is supporting this in mass with only a few people saying they dont like the new buff changes.

I think these changes are far more popular than the opinions on the boards here would lead people to think.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Mon 13 May 2019 9:19 PM by The_Lexi

I'd say boredom.

I just don't have the time that I had growing up and DAoC is a game many of us grew up with when we had more time... I personally don't have the free time to level up the amount of characters I have established on the Live Servers .

So let's say I make 1 char here... I'd want an alt... a group char and a solo char... then maybe a support or a tank... etc.. it'd take ages for me to redo that. Or - I can go on the live servers and have my alts but on a dead server basically.

If DAoC live brought back Old Frontiers - I'd say it'd be the end of all daoc emulators. Broadsword just refuses to do that or for some odd legal issue... cannot. They won't even comment on it.. and if you ask on facebook… you are banned.

Mon 13 May 2019 10:07 PM by florin

Lack of good communication
Lack of community buy in on changes
Not meeting or setting expectations
Phoenix staff has done well but no one is perfect and we unreasonably expect perfect from them

Mon 13 May 2019 11:28 PM by hend

Jimmy0000 wrote: ↑
Sun 12 May 2019 8:56 PM
Stranded wrote: ↑
Sat 11 May 2019 12:58 PM
The recent buff patch hindered a lot of players - me included. It is obvious when DEVs decide to make this server, they only listen to the opinion of the public 30% of the time.

In the end, they will do as they wish to benefit what they want.

This server doesn't even feel like the Dark Age of Camelot anymore - the emphasis on 8-man and zerg fights is too apparent and it takes away a very important part of the game. You're killing the server that had a chance of a solid future but the constant and drastic changes are too impacting.

You are fiddling with the code and don't realize the impact it has on the numbers and the community. I've been here for a solid 4 months, non-stop, and this week I'm sure I wont be the only stealther leaving.

GL All, it's been fun.

The private server emulations that stay up the longest, are truest to the patch era they try to emulate, mechanically. Take the WOTLK icecrown/warmane server. It's pretty much an exact copy, mechanically, to WoW in 2008, plus a few QOL things added on, that are actually QOL and not 'balance decisions' It has so many players, even after it's been up for quite some time, you still have to que for an hour+ during NA primetime to get in line for the 3k player cap that is on the server.

Hell, even uthgard 1.0 stayed up with a halfway decent population for what? over 10 years? All the way up to mid 2015 it had like 350 people on, and about 650 on primetime.

This server should have tried to emulate it's predecessor Genesis. Genesis had the perfect philosophy; no intentional base mechanic changes (classes/combat etc) BUT... with QOL added on, such as faster leveling, and what not. All the classes had old RAs, and none of this 'everyone has everything' crap. If mythic thought that was balanced, again, they would have made it that way. They had professional testers they were paying actual money to, as well as actual designers they hired. They did what they did for a reason.
(Lol @ big, tank oriented individually strong mid groups constantly SOSing away, for example.)

The reason why this server has sprung a leak so fast, is it's almost totally customized, from a base mechanical point of view; I would think it would be obvious that daocers want to actually play DAOC, not DAOPHOENIX. Making a customized server like this defeats the entire purpose of trying to find a DAOC server to play DAOC on. Why this is lost on so many private server admins, is beyond me. The only explanation I can come up with, is most private servers that are highly customized are mainly making it for the staff and a select few like-minded people have something to play with (at the expense of the general player base) and see how long people will put up with it, and if they lose interest, and their server dies, pop-wise, they just go on to some other private server of some other game, and repeat the process.

That's basically the mindset of the staff on Warhammer RoR. As long as the staff is happy, and as long as they can buff the hell out of the one or two class archetypes they are biased toward so they can pwn everybody when they play, and as long as not too many people leave over it, then to hell with everyone else.

Further on Warhammer Online Return of Reckoning. it barely resembles live Warhammer Online, and it is highly biased, and the staff favors certain class archetypes, and favors one faction, similarly to this place. (Here's a good example of private server bias on RoR. There's this stat, called weaponskill; it counters highly tanky specs on live, ANYONE could stack it on ANY melee class on live, but RoR just disabled weaponskill from working by like 75 percent, then they go and hand out 50 percent armor penetration to the classes the staff are biased toward, which in turn makes weaponskill stacking useless, and the classes that have the 50 percent armor penetration no longer need weaponskill, so they can just concentrate on the main damage stat, and critical hits, thus screwing the TTK up since they are now Kenshiro basically, with no weaponskill needed. So you get these 1 or two classes that just breathe on you and you die. It's stupid as hell.) The only reason why it still has 200 people playing it (from the 3500 or so that it lost over the course of 4 years) is because it's not QUITE as biased as this server is.
And the beauty of the situation is... when a staff member on RoR got tired of the bias, and created his own live-like server, it was a MILLION times funner and more balanced with the live mechanics, thus defeating the "supposed" purpose of all the custom "balance" changes in the first place on RoR... Only reason why Apoc didn't go over as well, is because too many people had too much investment in RoR, and the devs screwed up and made ONE huge mistake (too many NPCS in PVP) On private servers, it seems like "balance" is a code-word for "bias" Apoc is still around though, and they're still trying to improve it.

Balance decisions on base mechanics are not, and never will have anything to do with QOL; something to take note of to whatever staff members see this.

I would not be surprise if a gm/dev is playing in a hib/mid mongo setup. Makes sense.

Tue 14 May 2019 12:30 AM by Bradekes

MMOs are hard to maintain in general.. The only way WoW has stayed alive so long is because of the constant added progression, which a server based on a single iteration of an MMO is even more susceptible to this inevitable happening..

People like change more than they realise as your brain expects to learn and develope more.. DAoC doesn't have enough strategy to keep your mind occupied... You might get to have a strategic battle every week or so but most is zerg and numbers and unexpected adds that determine the win or lose...

Tue 14 May 2019 2:32 AM by LedriTheThane

I feel the same way Stranded.

They decided to mess with the value of the buff charges and actually hindered numerous solo/duo type of classes, while 8 man's were left unaffected. Also, considering how some classes are designed and how certain stats affect classes differently, such as Thanes use dex for blocking/casting, while some only use for evading, it can greatly affect balancing.

I've complained about it numerous times when streaming. Overall, including my str/con buff, I had ultimately gained 7 str/con value, but I lose 18 dex, 25 quick, I think 3% swing speed, and 25af. Well, we all lose the latter two, but the first two are such a great hindrance compared to other classes because as a Thane (and Valewalkers included since they're very similar, except blocking) we lose a lot of casting speed to get off that potential interrupt and damage for an advantage since thanes are kinda shit with melee damage. I lose tons of quickness to the point where I have to reallocate my RA's into more melee based style, and play a more melee based style, instead of the hybrid style of utilizing casts more often. I get the whole "muh hybrid tax" but when Thanes already have numerous counters, extremely reliant on RA's, and were just made weaker in this playstyle, it's either I wait for the ST stun reset or else I'm entirely fucked.

Now with Friars, they lose only what? Con from the str/con charge? Champions gained more str/con than I did because of their buff value increase, and they were already the most insane 1v1 melee class in the game. I've had too many people argue with how "everyone is weaker" but they don't understand how these stats affect classes differently. You'd think people would know this from a game that's nearly 18 years old. I feel my character become legitimately weaker. Rather than barely losing against Champions, I get shit on. Rather than rofl stomping the rr3/rr4 friars, they nearly beat me.

I don't know. It's just frustrating they didn't see this through. It was really fun while it lasted but I feel as if so many soloers feel alienated so they quit, and I can barely find any solo fights as it is. As if all the assassins just got up and quit. I loved soloing and making videos but I'm probably gonna finish up this last one and call it on the solo videos. I swear, I've been ran over way more often than I ever had been since the changes, and it's not worth it or fun to me anymore.

Tue 14 May 2019 2:34 AM by LedriTheThane

Also, lets not forget what killed the live servers: constant and drastic changes to the game. I would still be playing live if it wasn't for the pre-class overhaul changes made in mid-2016, but I feel alienated there too.

Tue 14 May 2019 6:51 AM by Sindralor

Its not just stealthers, losing 25 dex/int is massive for casters in solo / duo / trio
Having around 270 dex is just miserable
rip my sm

Tue 14 May 2019 7:11 AM by Druth

All classes apart from selfbuffers got nerfed.
And I do not understand why people can't see that it's fair that selfbuffers have an advantage in their buffs.

Non-buffers already has a major advantage in pots, which many would argue should not even be there.

I realize this might take a drastic balance adjustment.
For example I've been an advocate for reflex attack on friars, and supporting them destroying dual wielders with it.
But friars just got a major buff with this, and so looking at Reflex Attack might be needed.

Tue 14 May 2019 8:25 AM by Sindralor

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 7:11 AM
All classes apart from selfbuffers got nerfed.
And I do not understand why people can't see that it's fair that selfbuffers have an advantage in their buffs.

Non-buffers already has a major advantage in pots, which many would argue should not even be there.

Selfbuffs are a hilariously bad and awfully flawed concept
Take a champion as example, does he really need any of those buffs?
Imagine Champ vs Arms with only selfbuffs or none at all - that fulltank gets stomped
Now give them access to every capped buff - who wins? still the champion
How does the already winning character earn another advantage over all the others?
Doesn't make much sense to me and i can't understand your thinking at all

Another example is a 37% haste SELF buff with a 5.x 2h weapon
yeah i dont see any issue here with those fucked up armor tables ( although thats another story )

In my opinon, everyone should have access to max buffs via tokens
And from there on start properly balancing the game around
and ffs give the hunter something in return for the sad spezialisation line that is beastcraft

This server is very broken in terms of balancing, I could go on and write for hours but no one would care so I'll just go watch Love Death and Robots

Tue 14 May 2019 8:54 AM by Druth

Sindralor wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 8:25 AM
Selfbuffs are a hilariously bad and awfully flawed concept
Take a champion as example, does he really need any of those buffs?
Imagine Champ vs Arms with only selfbuffs or none at all - that fulltank gets stomped
Now give them access to every capped buff - who wins? still the champion
How does the already winning character earn another advantage over all the others?
Doesn't make much sense to me and i can't understand your thinking at all

Another example is a 37% haste SELF buff with a 5.x 2h weapon
yeah i dont see any issue here with those fucked up armor tables ( although thats another story )

In my opinon, everyone should have access to max buffs via tokens
And from there on start properly balancing the game around
and ffs give the hunter something in return for the sad spezialisation line that is beastcraft

This server is very broken in terms of balancing, I could go on and write for hours but no one would care so I'll just go watch Love Death and Robots

First of all, don't compare arms to champ. Arms is a heavy tank with stoicism made for groups, champ is a hybrid with burst damage made for... solo?
It would be a travesty if the arms could both shake off CC, AND beat a champ in 1v1.

Secondly, what you advocate is removing the feature in DaoC of classes being unique.
Selfbuff classes are unique, giving everyone buffs removes that.
Then where do we stop?
All gets speed?
All gets this and that, and we end up with CS.

While DaoC evolved like it, it was not launched with buff bots as a theme (maybe behind the shadows, but not openly). Think it took me nearly a year to realize I was playing DaoC all "wrong".

Idiotic discussion, because the train has left, we have launched. But I think it would have been far better to embrace the unique of selfbuffers, and balance around no pots, no charges. Alchemy all in all was a unneeded craft, and if it was needed it was due to problems in the game.

Tue 14 May 2019 10:17 PM by Luluko

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 8:54 AM
Sindralor wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 8:25 AM
Selfbuffs are a hilariously bad and awfully flawed concept
Take a champion as example, does he really need any of those buffs?
Imagine Champ vs Arms with only selfbuffs or none at all - that fulltank gets stomped
Now give them access to every capped buff - who wins? still the champion
How does the already winning character earn another advantage over all the others?
Doesn't make much sense to me and i can't understand your thinking at all

Another example is a 37% haste SELF buff with a 5.x 2h weapon
yeah i dont see any issue here with those fucked up armor tables ( although thats another story )

In my opinon, everyone should have access to max buffs via tokens
And from there on start properly balancing the game around
and ffs give the hunter something in return for the sad spezialisation line that is beastcraft

This server is very broken in terms of balancing, I could go on and write for hours but no one would care so I'll just go watch Love Death and Robots

First of all, don't compare arms to champ. Arms is a heavy tank with stoicism made for groups, champ is a hybrid with burst damage made for... solo?
It would be a travesty if the arms could both shake off CC, AND beat a champ in 1v1.

Secondly, what you advocate is removing the feature in DaoC of classes being unique.
Selfbuff classes are unique, giving everyone buffs removes that.
Then where do we stop?
All gets speed?
All gets this and that, and we end up with CS.

While DaoC evolved like it, it was not launched with buff bots as a theme (maybe behind the shadows, but not openly). Think it took me nearly a year to realize I was playing DaoC all "wrong".

Idiotic discussion, because the train has left, we have launched. But I think it would have been far better to embrace the unique of selfbuffers, and balance around no pots, no charges. Alchemy all in all was a unneeded craft, and if it was needed it was due to problems in the game.

I and many others dont care about selfbuffers how many classes are that even 2-3 per realm of 12+ classes per realm?
If you balance your game arround 20% of your classes you are fucking up the other 80%. And I dont know about you but I rather see buff classes a little nerfed than having only zerging and only buffclasses/speed classes solo/smallman and even most speed classes prolly wouldnt solo here without pots since you could just fight nothing really. Unbuffed speed classes can maybe kill a gimped unbuffed archer and a caster then. Tanks are already rarely soloing because of no speed. I would have no problems if bufflines from warden/ranger/hunter got a few buffs but friar certainly not aslong he has access to RA and ST which are 2 of the best solo RA's in the game.

And dont even start with the history lessons how classic was, its 2019 many people here have played live and we are used QoL changes like bp speed/buff npcs and many are just here because the population on live is really bad less than 200 all realms and its free ofc. But I doubt its mostly because of the classic feeling at least not if you consider pvp balance. Most people will prolly agree that daoc pvp balance was the best arround when the dragon campaign started on live well at least those which sticked with daoc after toa/cata etc.

Tue 21 May 2019 10:12 AM by Erok

I don't even have a stealther at level 50 but I do not blame you. So funny how many people are so dismissive, yet don't realize they will have no one to play with in just a few months. Nerf nerf nerf every patch for the last couple months whether it be in RvR or even PvE droprates, this shit simply does not work on a freeshard. There's literally 500+ less people on at any given time than there were 3-4 weeks ago. Numbers do not lie. This server will not exist in less than a year at this rate.

Tue 21 May 2019 12:20 PM by stinsfire

Sindralor wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 8:25 AM
and ffs give the hunter something in return for the sad spezialisation line that is beastcraft

This server is very broken in terms of balancing, I could go on and write for hours but no one would care so I'll just go watch Love Death and Robots

The phonix devs might be technically skilld but they are really bad at game design and balancing in my opinion and they completely suck ass at communicating with the community. They don't inform us why they do something or why they compltely ignore the topic. Lets take archers for example. There are at least 200 pages written about Archers over the last months and devs haven't answered. The most recent topic has 30 pages alone, i have written countless analysis of archers/hunters and made suggestions just as dozens of people and devs dont give feedback at all. On top of that Ninja nerfs are happening and are undocumented (Hunter Pet was made to destealth hunter and Longshot can't be combined with critshot like you could in 1.65 times). The whole stealthgame the devs created is complete nonsense... you took all staple RAs away from Archers and gave assassins everything for cheap. Why the fuck are Archers the only class in the game that got PD taken away from them? Explain that to me. This RA always was crucial for any Archer looking to participate in the stealth game. Not possible to spec MOS to counter assassin detection range,

Plus permasprint completely fucks any ranged soloers.. no more endu management needed at all in soloing which was an important part of the solo game. NOONE HAD ENDU AS A SOLOER BACK THEN! You had to think about what to do. On phoenix.. just mindlessly spam shit and zoom to everyone with purge available in every fight.

All I see is impulsive changes without thinking about the consequences. The whole task system was the most stupid thing I have ever seen in a PVP game and I don't get how they didn't predict how fkng stupid it would be.

Too many stupid custom changes where devs didn't see obvious consequences for the game. The task system is completely retarded and I dont understand how they didnt see that leveling by suicide and filling the FZ with hundreds of grey players wasn't stupid as fuck. On top of that it is impossible to defend keeps on this server. Noone wants to stand in a keep for 30 minutes in hope that the zerg will target this keep next and not another one. No mechanics to get into a keep once it is under siege. You can have awesome keepfights even with 50 defenders vs 90 attackers, but having to fight 90 people in the open field in order to enter the keep just makes large scale keep fights a rarity on this server.

I know.. the devs are doing this as a hobby project in their free time. I know this is all hard work that you are doing without getting compensated for it. I am a programmer myself. I know how tiresome programming can be. But let me tell you a short story. At my workplace... we have two kinds of developers.. at least I categorize them like this: 1. Autistic devs with insane programming skills 2. Non-Autistic devs with mediocre to insane programming skillls.
Yeah. I am not a docotor and I am not using autistic in its correct sense probably but you will understand what I mean.

So group number 1: They have awesome programming skills, they can program the most complicated shit, but they completely disregard accsablity, how people will perceive their program and how they will use it, what is comfortable to a user, what drives them away. For example they often don't understand making things easy instead of overly complex is the way to please the normal user. They dont understnd not everyone has the same knowledge of the program they use. And they completely suck at communicating. If you tell tham that what they are doing might be technically awesome but noone would ever use it that way, they get pissed at you. It is like they only see the technical expect but not how those technical aspects will feel to the average user.

And for me it feels like Phoenix is developed by people who are closer on the spectrum to number 1 than to number 2. Very bad communication and nonsensical/unfair changes and ignoring critical things that people are asking for. Why the hell do you make leveling piss easy but then force us to run the fkng same raid over and over again to equip our chars? This just doesnt make sense. You want to make the game more accesible but then you create a fkng item grind at level 50. (Why didnt you refund people who farmed for the charges?? Why the f do buffpots not get a timer increase with the changes lul?? Having to rebuff every 10 minutes as a stealther is so fkng annoying and got me killed so often on my hunter, because I just buffed in a dangerous place cause I was tired of camping somewhere for 8 minutes, then going to a safe place for a minute and back constantly).

I am sorry this post is such a terrible read and just written stream-of-conscience style without any structure but I am sitting at home with slight fever and too much time which resulted in this quite autistic post. (ironic, hu?)

I could go on and on, but I am going to stop here since this post is very unstructured, but after never getting any response to my thought-out posts I just dont care anymore.The devs dont seem to have any coherent plan or path they follow. They never outlined what their aim is. Everything they do seems to be completely random. If they keep running the server like this it will share the same faith as Uthgard caused by the same problem: Devs out of touch with the playerbase.

Originally I just wanted to write a two liner and say that I am going to watch GoT now and check if the latest season really is as bad as everyone says and now I ended up writing this angry wall of text. I love DAoC and I want to play it, but if devs keep handling the servers like this we will have three dead versions of daoc soon: Uthgard, Phoenix and broadsword.

Tue 21 May 2019 12:33 PM by Sepplord

The thing with communication is that it goes both ways...and so far most of the time they explain something, someone shows up and figuratively shits down their throat. Interacting with the community is a fulltime job and the devs are not doing this fulltime, and even if they were they would have different "jobs" to do within the staff.

And, of course, there are scenarios where not saying anything at all IS the best communciation for your goal. Because saying the truth would get bad feedback and lying would fall on your foot later down the road.

Tue 21 May 2019 12:37 PM by stinsfire

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 12:33 PM
And, of course, there are scenarios where not saying anything at all IS the best communciation for your goal. Because saying the truth would get bad feedback and lying would fall on your foot later down the road.

I'd love to hear the truth about making the weakest archetype(archers) intentionally weaker while handing out buffs to other classes like my Thane.

Tue 21 May 2019 1:11 PM by

gruenesschaf

stinsfire wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 12:20 PM
Sindralor wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 8:25 AM
and ffs give the hunter something in return for the sad spezialisation line that is beastcraft

This server is very broken in terms of balancing, I could go on and write for hours but no one would care so I'll just go watch Love Death and Robots

The phonix devs might be technically skilld but they are really bad at game design and balancing in my opinion and they completely suck ass at communicating with the community. They don't inform us why they do something or why they compltely ignore the topic. Lets take archers for example. There are at least 200 pages written about Archers over the last months and devs haven't answered. The most recent topic has 30 pages alone, i have written countless analysis of archers/hunters and made suggestions just as dozens of people and devs dont give feedback at all. On top of that Ninja nerfs are happening and are undocumented (Hunter Pet was made to destealth hunter and Longshot can't be combined with critshot like you could in 1.65 times). The whole stealthgame the devs created is complete nonsense... you took all staple RAs away from Archers and gave assassins everything for cheap. Why the fuck are Archers the only class in the game that got PD taken away from them? Explain that to me. This RA always was crucial for any Archer looking to participate in the stealth game. Not possible to spec MOS to counter assassin detection range,

Plus permasprint completely fucks any ranged soloers.. no more endu management needed at all in soloing which was an important part of the solo game. NOONE HAD ENDU AS A SOLOER BACK THEN! You had to think about what to do. On phoenix.. just mindlessly spam shit and zoom to everyone with purge available in every fight.

All I see is impulsive changes without thinking about the consequences. The whole task system was the most stupid thing I have ever seen in a PVP game and I don't get how they didn't predict how fkng stupid it would be.

Too many stupid custom changes where devs didn't see obvious consequences for the game. The task system is completely retarded and I dont understand how they didnt see that leveling by suicide and filling the FZ with hundreds of grey players wasn't stupid as fuck. On top of that it is impossible to defend keeps on this server. Noone wants to stand in a keep for 30 minutes in hope that the zerg will target this keep next and not another one. No mechanics to get into a keep once it is under siege. You can have awesome keepfights even with 50 defenders vs 90 attackers, but having to fight 90 people in the open field in order to enter the keep just makes large scale keep fights a rarity on this server.

I know.. the devs are doing this as a hobby project in their free time. I know this is all hard work that you are doing without getting compensated for it. I am a programmer myself. I know how tiresome programming can be. But let me tell you a short story. At my workplace... we have two kinds of developers.. at least I categorize them like this: 1. Autistic devs with insane programming skills 2. Non-Autistic devs with mediocre to insane programming skillls.
Yeah. I am not a docotor and I am not using autistic in its correct sense probably but you will understand what I mean.

So group number 1: They have awesome programming skills, they can program the most complicated shit, but they completely disregard accsablity, how people will perceive their program and how they will use it, what is comfortable to a user, what drives them away. For example they often don't understand making things easy instead of overly complex is the way to please the normal user. They dont understnd not everyone has the same knowledge of the program they use. And they completely suck at communicating. If you tell tham that what they are doing might be technically awesome but noone would ever use it that way, they get pissed at you. It is like they only see the technical expect but not how those technical aspects will feel to the average user.

And for me it feels like Phoenix is developed by people who are closer on the spectrum to number 1 than to number 2. Very bad communication and nonsensical/unfair changes and ignoring critical things that people are asking for. Why the hell do you make leveling piss easy but then force us to run the fkng same raid over and over again to equip our chars? This just doesnt make sense. You want to make the game more accesible but then you create a fkng item grind at level 50. (Why didnt you refund people who farmed for the charges?? Why the f do buffpots not get a timer increase with the changes lul?? Having to rebuff every 10 minutes as a stealther is so fkng annoying and got me killed so often on my hunter, because I just buffed in a dangerous place cause I was tired of camping somewhere for 8 minutes, then going to a safe place for a minute and back constantly).

I am sorry this post is such a terrible read and just written stream-of-conscience style without any structure but I am sitting at home with slight fever and too much time which resulted in this quite autistic post. (ironic, hu?)

I could go on and on, but I am going to stop here since this post is very unstructured, but after never getting any response to my thought-out posts I just dont care anymore.The devs dont seem to have any coherent plan or path they follow. They never outlined what their aim is. Everything they do seems to be completely random. If they keep running the server like this it will share the same faith as Uthgard caused by the same problem: Devs out of touch with the playerbase.

Originally I just wanted to write a two liner and say that I am going to watch GoT now and check if the latest season really is as bad as everyone says and now I ended up writing this angry wall of text. I love DAoC and I want to play it, but if devs keep handling the servers like this we will have three dead versions of daoc soon: Uthgard, Phoenix and broadsword.

No PD for Archers: not sure if you noticed but we basically have the NNF RAs with some backporting of OF RAs. Archers don't have pd since NNF.
Hunter destealthing when pet attacks is something that came around the time pets stopped attacking stealthed people.
Crit and longshot cannot be combined: open a bug report if you're sure it should work together
No one had endu back then: Right, endu potions didn't exist and we just invented them, long wind also wasn't available.
The task system increasing rvr participation from 10 - 20% to over 60% in beta is absolutely a testament to how flawed the general idea behind it was.
No other entry into the keeps: No other entry to keeps is just the way it is with OF keeps, that OF keeps basically are really shitty is probably no secret and everyone knows it.
Is it possible that this is not an i50 server and hence some minor effort is required to get a sc that you don't ever really have to change?
Could it possibly be that the 10min rebuffing being slightly inconvenient / dangerous for stealther is working as intended?

Tue 21 May 2019 2:05 PM by kratoxin

With all of these crazy changes/nerfs to salvage drops and item charges nerf, i also am leaving and will not return especially with population dropping hard to find any solos anymore etc. all i see is emain, emain, emain.... not much anywhere else so good luck. Can't farm gold for hours upon hours ruining RvR play time to keep up with recharges and buying feathers from other players since no raids are ran during US prime time and weekends you have to rush to get on at a certain time or you're screwed as well. also in my opinion the whole repairing gear dropping instantly is dumb as well... why repair something @ 96 durability only dropping it to 96.. making it to where you have to just BUY another piece quickly to replace it. This server is going to plummet quickly behind Live if these changes and nerfs to the economy keep up thanx. bye.

Sorry some people have a life and don't play as much as most of you, able to afford LGM in all crafts etc.

Tue 21 May 2019 2:49 PM by Mura

What game are you playing that you have to farm gold for hours and hours, ruining your RvR? Do 1 raid or DS run and sell the feathers to fund your pots and charges for at least a week.

It takes maybe 2 hours of pve a week to keep my gold reserves healthy. If that's too much to handle then maybe Fortnite is more your speed.

Tue 21 May 2019 5:15 PM by stinsfire

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 1:11 PM
No PD for Archers: not sure if you noticed but we basically have the NNF RAs with some backporting of OF RAs. Archers don't have pd since NNF.

A highly customized version of NF. Hybrids didn't have det back then, Skalds and Bards didnt have SOS etc. So can you explain to me why my Thane should get Det in combination with massive buffs to mana costs, damage and cast speed but my hunter doesn't get MOS and PD and no Buffs to BC? As always your way of arguing isn't logically coherent and invalid. You can't just say "But we have new RA blablabla and it was liket his back then when you have changed countless other things." By customizing everything you have completely invalidated that argument. Stop using it.
As I said you have zero plan on what you actually want to achieve with this server. Most changes appear random as fuck Probably the reason we now have a Clusterfuck of OF with homogenized New RAs and customized RA costs. Could have just sticked to OF or NF or at leasst not homogenize them for each realm you know.... maybe mythic had a reason our mid melee trains didn't have SOS back then?

Hunter destealthing when pet attacks is something that came around the time pets stopped attacking stealthed people.

No, it was introduced after Hunter pets recieved procs and styles and Hunters would group up and let their pets kill enemies while spamming laugh in stealth. They introduced it because pets were busted as fuck and Hunters didn't even have to actively fight to kill people. They could just send 3 pets on an enemy and as I said spam /laugh, /dance and /rofl in stealth. We don't have OP pets here.. so why do we need this change?

Crit and longshot cannot be combined: open a bug report if you're sure it should work together

Haha! A bug report?! LUL... And then you are telling me to prove something that is impossible to prove because there is no 1.65 server around anymore? Just like Uthred simply closed my Bug Report about Hunter pet destealthing the hunter without even giving me a comment. Sorry, but if you treat me like this.. why would I make another bug report? As I said.. you guys are awful when it comes to community interaction. I made a bug report and you basically said: "Go fuck yourself, we don't care" instead of giving me an answer why you introduced it this way or why you think it is beneficial for the server when Hunters are even shittier than they have to be.

I remember doing it back on live and I have asked countless times in advice for opinions of others if I have dreamed that. I got response from numerous hunters that they used to combine crit and longshot back then. Btw.. it was possible on Phoenix until a while ago and someone stealthnerfed it without mentioning it in any patch notes. Again... awesome community interaction. Clap clap

No one had endu back then: Right, endu potions didn't exist and we just invented them, long wind also wasn't available.

Yeah I absolutely remember LW and Tireless costing 1 point in 1.65 and every 50 having them. Crafting Endurance Pots required dropped materials which were rare and thus it was really hard to get endu pots back then. I don't remember many solos having endurance when I played classic live.
But you are right about endu potions existing back then. I checked it becaues I believed it was introduced later than 1.65. I was wrong on that part.

The task system increasing rvr participation from 10 - 20% to over 60% in beta is absolutely a testament to how flawed the general idea behind it was.

I don't know what the tasks were like in beta. I started phoenix when RvR tasks were basically abused to XP while being afk. If half of emain consists of grey players suiciding or level 50s getting tagged every 15 minutes and then staying in PK, its no wonder your RvR "participation" goes up. Do you truly believe people wouldn't have RvRed in DAoC if you didn't have tasks? I can count the number of people I met on phoenix who prefer pve over rvr on one hand.

No other entry into the keeps: No other entry to keeps is just the way it is with OF keeps, that OF keeps basically are really shitty is probably no secret and everyone knows it.

You know... you could make.. errm.. custom changes? I am not talking about NF keeps. You could have a rally NPC in each keep and if a single defender made it inside the keep he could click the NPC and alarm the whole realm that the keep is under siege and then allow people to port into the keep for a few minutes? Just an idea I came up with right now. Meaningful insta action with great keep fights guaranteed instead of PvDoor (Hello Pilz)

Is it possible that this is not an i50 server and hence some minor effort is required to get a sc that you don't ever really have to change?

Is it possible that running TG is the most boring activity I have ever done in any MMORPG I have played and the reason I don't roll toons anymore. You made leveling piss easy which is 100 times more enjoyable than joining a TG BG and then spamming the assist macro and my nuke for 90 minutes while I watch television. Plus I can maybe attain 1-3 raids each week which means it takes weeks for me to equip chars.
Made a shaman to farm instead to get my SC but well you nerfed farming. One day I will probably get bored of my 2 chars and then leave the server.

Could it possibly be that the 10min rebuffing being slightly inconvenient / dangerous for stealther is working as intended?

Why?
Working as intended doesn't mean that your intentions are good or that I agree with them.

Tue 21 May 2019 6:24 PM by

gruenesschaf

stinsfire wrote:
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 1:11 PM
No PD for Archers: not sure if you noticed but we basically have the NNF RAs with some backporting of OF RAs. Archers don't have pd since NNF.

A highly customized version of NF. Hybrids didn't have det back then, Skalds and Bards didnt have SOS etc. So can you explain to me why my Thane should get Det in combination with massive buffs to mana costs, damage and cast speed but my hunter doesn't get MOS and PD and no Buffs to BC? As always your way of arguing isn't logically coherent and invalid. You can't just say "But we have new RA blablabla and it was liket his back then when you have changed countless other things." By customizing everything you have completely invalidated that argument. Stop using it.

Check a char planner with NNF ras and compare to ours, surprise, aside from delve changes, no rr5s and backporting of some OF ras it's the same.

And what's that about endu potions? You misremembered something that it in fact existed? If you bothered to look further into it you'd even see that drops being required for end potions is wrong too, only end 4 needs them and end 4 isn't available here. And 1 point LW was a thing and actually you were able to skill LW higher.
And really, you take the behavior of classic live people wrt potions? Many people didn't have SC back then, here they do, almost nobody charged back then, almost everyone does(did) here. This is not 2002 classic live where basically nobody has any clue what they're doing, most people still playing this game actually care at some level and at least try to to see what options they have nowadays.

stinsfire wrote: Working as intended doesn't mean that your intentions are good or that I agree with them.

You don't have to agree with them. Every single of your posts is written only taking your tiny bubble into account with zero regard for anything else: if it's bad for you it's bad. Someone closed a bug that's not a bug but it's working as intended? Oh noes the bad people have no idea what they're doing. People are using what was available even back then more than they actually did back then? "Everyone is just wrong!" or "But it wasn't exactly that easy back then!" while at the same time regarding another point "But I want to instantly have gear!".

Tue 21 May 2019 7:00 PM by stinsfire

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 6:24 PM
stinsfire wrote:
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 1:11 PM
No PD for Archers: not sure if you noticed but we basically have the NNF RAs with some backporting of OF RAs. Archers don't have pd since NNF.

A highly customized version of NF. Hybrids didn't have det back then, Skalds and Bards didnt have SOS etc. So can you explain to me why my Thane should get Det in combination with massive buffs to mana costs, damage and cast speed but my hunter doesn't get MOS and PD and no Buffs to BC? As always your way of arguing isn't logically coherent and invalid. You can't just say "But we have new RA blablabla and it was liket his back then when you have changed countless other things." By customizing everything you have completely invalidated that argument. Stop using it.

Check a char planner with NNF ras and compare to ours, surprise, aside from delve changes, no rr5s and backporting of some OF ras it's the same.

And what's that about endu potions? You misremembered something that it in fact existed? If you bothered to look further into it you'd even see that drops being required for end potions is wrong too, only end 4 needs them and end 4 isn't available here. And 1 point LW was a thing and actually you were able to skill LW higher.
And really, you take the behavior of classic live people wrt potions? Many people didn't have SC back then, here they do, almost nobody charged back then, almost everyone does(did) here. This is not 2002 classic live where basically nobody has any clue what they're doing, most people still playing this game actually care at some level and at least try to to see what options they have nowadays.

stinsfire wrote: Working as intended doesn't mean that your intentions are good or that I agree with them.
You don't have to agree with them. Every single of your posts is written only taking your tiny bubble into account with zero regard for anything else: if it's bad for you it's bad. Someone closed a bug that's not a bug but it's working as intended? Oh noes the bad people have no idea what they're doing. People are using what was available even back then more than they actually did back then? "Everyone is just wrong!" or "But it wasn't exactly that easy back then!" while at the same time regarding another point "But I want to instantly have gear!".

I will reply to one thing:

Someone closed a bug that's not a bug but it's working as intended?

Working as intended when it only was introduced as a reaction to better pets when we have absolute trash pets here? Lol.. you dont make any sense at all,I love your "working as intended" arguments since they basically mean nothing. It translates to "It is correct because we want it this way".

Nice selective answer. Won't bother replying to the rest until you adressed the rest of my post, Your post just shows you are incapable of having a mature and factual discussion. You ignored 80% of my post and then went ad hominem. nice one. clap clap.

But good job displaying why you devs fail to cater to the playerbase or understand why the server has lost 66% of its playerbase. You are treating your players from a high horse when they disagree with you instead of just countering their arguments or respectfully talking to them.

Tue 21 May 2019 7:17 PM by

gruenesschaf

stinsfire wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 7:00 PM
Nice selective answer. Won't bother replying to the rest until you adressed the rest of my post, Your post just shows you are incapable of having a mature and open discussion. You ignored 80% of my post and then went ad hominem. nice one. You truly suck at discussions clap clap

But good job displaying why you devs fail to cater to the playerbase or understand why the server has lost 66% of its playerbase.

The only things I did not reply to is your failure to understand the purpose of the rvr tasks where you seriously think it has anything to do with some preferring pve over pvp and your suggestion on what to do with keeps. That's 2/8 not addressed aka 25% with one not being worth it and the other a suggestion.

With your deceptive behavior by trying to take high ground via pointing out ad hominem after insulting us and in general being just a nice person you now have a warning.

Tue 21 May 2019 8:27 PM by kratoxin

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 7:17 PM
stinsfire wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 7:00 PM
Nice selective answer. Won't bother replying to the rest until you adressed the rest of my post, Your post just shows you are incapable of having a mature and open discussion. You ignored 80% of my post and then went ad hominem. nice one. You truly suck at discussions clap clap

But good job displaying why you devs fail to cater to the playerbase or understand why the server has lost 66% of its playerbase.

The only things I did not reply to is your failure to understand the purpose of the rvr tasks where you seriously think it has anything to do with some preferring pve over pvp and your suggestion on what to do with keeps. That's 2/8 not addressed aka 25% with one not being worth it and the other a suggestion.

With your deceptive behavior by trying to take high ground via pointing out ad hominem after insulting us and in general being just a nice person you now have a warning.

Very unprofessional instead of PMing the players, sometimes i don't understand the way MODs treat others VIA comments etc.. pointing out their info etc.

Tue 21 May 2019 8:36 PM by

gruenesschaf

kratoxin wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 8:27 PM
Very unprofessional instead of PMing the players, sometimes i don't understand the way MODs treat others VIA comments etc.. pointing out their info etc.

Don't expect friendly replies if you don't start friendly. And I don't really see a reason to give a warning due to public behavior in private, if you start unfriendly and then receive a similar reply and then try to take the high ground by pointing out how unfriendly it is it's nothing but deceptive.

While I'd obviously prefer a friendly conversation, I really don't mind having an unfriendly one but lies or other deceptive behavior or straight up insults are just not tolerated.

Tue 21 May 2019 8:39 PM by Ceen

kratoxin wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 8:27 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 7:17 PM
stinsfire wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 7:00 PM
Nice selective answer. Won't bother replying to the rest until you adressed the rest of my post, Your post just shows you are incapable of having a mature and open discussion. You ignored 80% of my post and then went ad hominem. nice one. You truly suck at discussions clap clap

But good job displaying why you devs fail to cater to the playerbase or understand why the server has lost 66% of its playerbase.

The only things I did not reply to is your failure to understand the purpose of the rvr tasks where you seriously think it has anything to do with some preferring pve over pvp and your suggestion on what to do with keeps. That's 2/8 not addressed aka 25% with one not being worth it and the other a suggestion.

With your deceptive behavior by trying to take high ground via pointing out ad hominem after insulting us and in general being just a nice person you now have a warning.
Very unprofessional instead of PMing the players, sometimes i don't understand the way MODs treat others VIA comments etc.. pointing out their info etc.

It would be very unprofessional to hand out bans for random flames, oh wait, would it really be that bad? =)

Tue 21 May 2019 8:42 PM by PingGuy

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 8:36 PM
Don't expect friendly replies if you don't start friendly.

Can we just send this message out to the entire internet as an FYI?

Tue 21 May 2019 11:58 PM by Warjon

This is maybe the best argument I have seen on these free shards! A lot of info in it. I too could feel some of the flavor of Krat's feelings, though not his delivery of them. Then boom, those thoughts were trumped by a reasonable answer by one who is involved with actually making things happen.

Well said. It is always nice when Admin step forward with a peek behind the curtain so one can be sure there is a method to this madness!

Wed 22 May 2019 1:54 PM by Cadebrennus

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 1:11 PM
stinsfire wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 12:20 PM
Sindralor wrote: ↑
Tue 14 May 2019 8:25 AM
and ffs give the hunter something in return for the sad spezialisation line that is beastcraft

This server is very broken in terms of balancing, I could go on and write for hours but no one would care so I'll just go watch Love Death and Robots

The phonix devs might be technically skilld but they are really bad at game design and balancing in my opinion and they completely suck ass at communicating with the community. They don't inform us why they do something or why they compltely ignore the topic. Lets take archers for example. There are at least 200 pages written about Archers over the last months and devs haven't answered. The most recent topic has 30 pages alone, i have written countless analysis of archers/hunters and made suggestions just as dozens of people and devs dont give feedback at all. On top of that Ninja nerfs are happening and are undocumented (Hunter Pet was made to destealth hunter and Longshot can't be combined with critshot like you could in 1.65 times). The whole stealthgame the devs created is complete nonsense... you took all staple RAs away from Archers and gave assassins everything for cheap. Why the fuck are Archers the only class in the game that got PD taken away from them? Explain that to me. This RA always was crucial for any Archer looking to participate in the stealth game. Not possible to spec MOS to counter assassin detection range,

Plus permasprint completely fucks any ranged soloers.. no more endu management needed at all in soloing which was an important part of the solo game. NOONE HAD ENDU AS A SOLOER BACK THEN! You had to think about what to do. On phoenix.. just mindlessly spam shit and zoom to everyone with purge available in every fight.

All I see is impulsive changes without thinking about the consequences. The whole task system was the most stupid thing I have ever seen in a PVP game and I don't get how they didn't predict how fkng stupid it would be.

Too many stupid custom changes where devs didn't see obvious consequences for the game. The task system is completely retarded and I dont understand how they didnt see that leveling by suicide and filling the FZ with hundreds of grey players wasn't stupid as fuck. On top of that it is impossible to defend keeps on this server. Noone wants to stand in a keep for 30 minutes in hope that the zerg will target this keep next and not another one. No mechanics to get into a keep once it is under siege. You can have awesome keepfights even with 50 defenders vs 90 attackers, but having to fight 90 people in the open field in order to enter the keep just makes large scale keep fights a rarity on this server.

I know.. the devs are doing this as a hobby project in their free time. I know this is all hard work that you are doing without getting compensated for it. I am a programmer myself. I know how tiresome programming can be. But let me tell you a short story. At my workplace... we have two kinds of developers.. at least I categorize them like this: 1. Autistic devs with insane programming skills 2. Non-Autistic devs with mediocre to insane programming skillls.
Yeah. I am not a docotor and I am not using autistic in its correct sense probably but you will understand what I mean.

So group number 1: They have awesome programming skills, they can program the most complicated shit, but they completely disregard accsablity, how people will perceive their program and how they will use it, what is comfortable to a user, what drives them away. For example they often don't understand making things easy instead of overly complex is the way to please the normal user. They dont understnd not everyone has the same knowledge of the program they use. And they completely suck at communicating. If you tell tham that what they are doing might be technically awesome but noone would ever use it that way, they get pissed at you. It is like they only see the technical expect but not how those technical aspects will feel to the average user.

And for me it feels like Phoenix is developed by people who are closer on the spectrum to number 1 than to number 2. Very bad communication and nonsensical/unfair changes and ignoring critical things that people are asking for. Why the hell do you make leveling piss easy but then force us to run the fkng same raid over and over again to equip our chars? This just doesnt make sense. You want to make the game more accesible but then you create a fkng item grind at level 50. (Why didnt you refund people who farmed for the charges?? Why the f do buffpots not get a timer increase with the changes lul?? Having to rebuff every 10 minutes as a stealther is so fkng annoying and got me killed so often on my hunter, because I just buffed in a dangerous place cause I was tired of camping somewhere for 8 minutes, then going to a safe place for a minute and back constantly).

I am sorry this post is such a terrible read and just written stream-of-conscience style without any structure but I am sitting at home with slight fever and too much time which resulted in this quite autistic post. (ironic, hu?)

I could go on and on, but I am going to stop here since this post is very unstructured, but after never getting any response to my thought-out posts I just dont care anymore.The devs dont seem to have any coherent plan or path they follow. They never outlined what their aim is. Everything they do seems to be completely random. If they keep running the server like this it will share the same faith as Uthgard caused by the same problem: Devs out of touch with the playerbase.

Originally I just wanted to write a two liner and say that I am going to watch GoT now and check if the latest season really is as bad as everyone says and now I ended up writing this angry wall of text. I love DAoC and I want to play it, but if devs keep handling the servers like this we will have three dead versions of daoc soon: Uthgard, Phoenix and broadsword.

No PD for Archers: not sure if you noticed but we basically have the NNF RAs with some backporting of OF RAs. Archers don't have pd since NNF.
Hunter destealthing when pet attacks is something that came around the time pets stopped attacking stealthed people.
Crit and longshot cannot be combined: open a bug report if you're sure it should work together
No one had endu back then: Right, endu potions didn't exist and we just invented them, long wind also wasn't available.
The task system increasing rvr participation from 10 - 20% to over 60% in beta is absolutely a testament to how flawed the general idea behind it was.
No other entry into the keeps: No other entry to keeps is just the way it is with OF keeps, that OF keeps basically are really shitty is probably no secret and everyone knows it.
Is it possible that this is not an i50 server and hence some minor effort is required to get a sc that you don't ever really have to change?
Could it possibly be that the 10min rebuffing being slightly inconvenient / dangerous for stealther is working as intended?

So why isn't Mastery of Stealth available as an RA then? MoS was a NNF thing like you said. You guys should pick a version (OF or NNF) and stick with it, instead of cherry-picking it for particular classes just because you like or don't like certain classes.

Wed 22 May 2019 2:10 PM by Dominus

would really love to see Schaaf respond to the lack of archery buffs since the community has been crying about this since beta. I know, I was one of the active hunters testing and suggesting. buff the pet! speed up 20%, %proc disease, bring back PD or fix MoS so ALL archers don't have to eat the initial perf in every fight.

Wed 22 May 2019 5:03 PM by

gruenesschaf

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 1:54 PM
So why isn't Mastery of Stealth available as an RA then? MoS was a NNF thing like you said. You guys should pick a version (OF or NNF) and stick with it, instead of cherry-picking it for particular classes just because you like or don't like certain classes.

The vesion of NNF we took (basically nnf as of 1.124) already had MoS given via stealth spec and it was no longer a RA

Wed 22 May 2019 8:25 PM by Numatic

Dominus wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 2:10 PM
would really love to see Schaaf respond to the lack of archery buffs since the community has been crying about this since beta. I know, I was one of the active hunters testing and suggesting. buff the pet! speed up 20%, %proc disease, bring back PD or fix MoS so ALL archers don't have to eat the initial perf in every fight.

looks like someone has a shoe to put in their mouth

Wed 22 May 2019 8:26 PM by Dominus

not a shoe, just my answer. Thx devs for jumping to assist with this imbalance. Really appreciate it.

Wed 22 May 2019 8:53 PM by Sayuri

Dominus wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 8:26 PM
not a shoe, just my answer. Thx devs for jumping to assist with this imbalance. Really appreciate it.

and now they put more imbalance to the game, lets watch assist of 3 hunter in stealth killing a player in 3 hit or just watch player using siege weapon to kill other player in their tp ?

Wed 22 May 2019 9:41 PM by Dominus

yeah that pet buff is going to be SOOOO OP lol. dude.

Wed 22 May 2019 10:18 PM by Sayuri

Dominus wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 9:41 PM
yeah that pet buff is going to be SOOOO OP lol. dude.

a blue pet that hit for 130 in every hit on infi yeah its op

Wed 22 May 2019 10:19 PM by Cadebrennus

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 5:03 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 1:54 PM
So why isn't Mastery of Stealth available as an RA then? MoS was a NNF thing like you said. You guys should pick a version (OF or NNF) and stick with it, instead of cherry-picking it for particular classes just because you like or don't like certain classes.

The vesion of NNF we took (basically nnf as of 1.124) already had MoS given via stealth spec and it was no longer a RA

So you went looking for just >< this tight of a window to find the version that fucked over Archers the most? Okay, some people are correct. You guys DO put more effort into the server than most people realize.

Wed 22 May 2019 10:31 PM by lourock

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 10:19 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 5:03 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 1:54 PM
So why isn't Mastery of Stealth available as an RA then? MoS was a NNF thing like you said. You guys should pick a version (OF or NNF) and stick with it, instead of cherry-picking it for particular classes just because you like or don't like certain classes.

The vesion of NNF we took (basically nnf as of 1.124) already had MoS given via stealth spec and it was no longer a RA

So you went looking for just >< this tight of a window to find the version that fucked over Archers the most? Okay, some people are correct. You guys DO put more effort into the server than most people realize.

Lol seriously, if you must borrow Ideas from live please go off of a mythic template not a John broadsword idea lol.

Wed 22 May 2019 11:13 PM by Cadebrennus

lourock wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 10:31 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 10:19 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 5:03 PM
The vesion of NNF we took (basically nnf as of 1.124) already had MoS given via stealth spec and it was no longer a RA

So you went looking for just >< this tight of a window to find the version that fucked over Archers the most? Okay, some people are correct. You guys DO put more effort into the server than most people realize.

Lol seriously, if you must borrow Ideas from live please go off of a mythic template not a John broadsword idea lol.

Wed 22 May 2019 11:48 PM by lourock

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 11:13 PM
lourock wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 10:31 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 10:19 PM
So you went looking for just >< this tight of a window to find the version that fucked over Archers the most? Okay, some people are correct. You guys DO put more effort into the server than most people realize.

Lol seriously, if you must borrow Ideas from live please go off of a mythic template not a John broadsword idea lol.

Way to meme somebody agreeing with you

Guess I need to work on my writing skills.

Thu 23 May 2019 1:00 AM by Cadebrennus

lourock wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 11:48 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 11:13 PM
lourock wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 10:31 PM
Lol seriously, if you must borrow Ideas from live please go off of a mythic template not a John broadsword idea lol.

Way to meme somebody agreeing with you Guess I need to work on my writing skills.

Sorry bud. I was honestly confused.

Thu 23 May 2019 3:01 AM by lourock

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 23 May 2019 1:00 AM
lourock wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 11:48 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 11:13 PM

Way to meme somebody agreeing with you Guess I need to work on my writing skills.

Sorry bud. I was honestly confused.

Np I think I should have said they instead of you if that makes sense.

Thu 23 May 2019 7:38 AM by Siouxsie

Sayuri wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 10:18 PM
Dominus wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 9:41 PM
yeah that pet buff is going to be SOOOO OP lol. dude.

a blue pet that hit for 130 in every hit on infi yeah its op

Not op when you consider infis and nightshades often kill hunters in seconds.
Now you no longer have total I-Win button over hunters.
qq.

Thu 23 May 2019 1:41 PM by Dominus

yeah, so he had 1/2 health this time when he killed the hunter instead of 3/4.. pet sooo OP lol

Fri 24 May 2019 5:07 AM by Raunz

All the changes coming in without consulting daoc pros is big yikes from me, all competitive esports titles even have balance and test teams consisted of ex pro players. Just because you play the game does not mean you understand it.

Fri 24 May 2019 5:51 AM by Sepplord

Raunz wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 5:07 AM
All the changes coming in without consulting daoc pros is big yikes from me, all competitive esports titles even have balance and test teams consisted of ex pro players. Just because you play the game does not mean you understand it.

competitive esports titles get balanced by competitive esports players

casual freeshard for aging people to relax in gets balanced by casual aging people that want to relax

seems like a good approach. This isn't an esport-server

PS: where do you get your insider information with whom exactly they talk for balancing btw.? Any other facts you have to share with us plebs

Fri 24 May 2019 7:13 PM by Fayynne

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 5:51 AM
Raunz wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 5:07 AM
All the changes coming in without consulting daoc pros is big yikes from me, all competitive esports titles even have balance and test teams consisted of ex pro players. Just because you play the game does not mean you understand it.

competitive esports titles get balanced by competitive esports players

casual freeshard for aging people to relax in gets balanced by casual aging people that want to relax

seems like a good approach. This isn't an esport-server

PS: where do you get your insider information with whom exactly they talk for balancing btw.? Any other facts you have to share with us plebs

For League riot commonly talks with pro's and high ranked one tricks when it comes to champions. They have their own balance team, but they do take the pro scene and top solo q into consideration.

Sat 25 May 2019 6:54 PM by Mac

DAoC Freeshards dont slowly die, they decay quite quickly and sometimes linger in a very reduced population state.

Sun 26 May 2019 7:11 AM by Chaskha

I would bet that 80% of QQ people are the ones who play every day for at least 4h (which does not imply that all the people playing 30h/week are whiners).
Just because when you have too much of something you get bored and instead of having a break and acknowledging the boredom, it's easier to complain that things are not pristine anymore.

Just quit for a few weeks, return, have fun again.

Mon 27 May 2019 2:47 PM by Sindralor

League of Legends is dogshit if you play top lane
If you get counterpicked you dont even get to play the game

Mon 27 May 2019 11:56 PM by Effaermon

Sindralor wrote: ↑
Mon 27 May 2019 2:47 PM
League of Legends is dogshit if you play top lane
If you get counterpicked you dont even get to play the game

Can someone translate this?

Tue 28 May 2019 12:18 AM by jhaerik

Effaermon wrote: ↑
Sat 11 May 2019 8:25 PM
Well, I am sad to see you go and am happy you have stated why. The population has tanked significantly...I'd love to know why those missing folks left.

Pretty much because most of the player base was looking for something similar to the Gareth/Lamorak/Ector ruleset.

Uthgard was too feature lite. People left.
Phoenix was too custom content feature heavy. (Slowly started to feel like ToA) So people left.

People just get sick of the 24/7 365 beta thing as well. Too many sweeping changes too quickly.

Tue 28 May 2019 12:19 AM by jhaerik

Effaermon wrote: ↑
Mon 27 May 2019 11:56 PM
Sindralor wrote: ↑
Mon 27 May 2019 2:47 PM
League of Legends is dogshit if you play top lane
If you get counterpicked you dont even get to play the game

Can someone translate this?

Rough translation, I like to first pick top laners with obvious weaknesses then complain when I get counterpicked.

Tue 28 May 2019 12:26 AM by Freedomcall

I play stealther, I didn't like this buff change, but i'm still playing and trying to adapt myself to new changes. I've respecced and bought new gears according to new change, and still winning fights.
This is just a video game. Just chill and enjoy.

I kinda agree that there are too many drastic changes and think this is bad for casuals thou. Devs should be more considerate that simple change can impact unexpected things and change "how to play a game". Experimenting things and changing spec/gears according to updates everytime is not the casuals can do.

Tue 28 May 2019 12:33 AM by Sindralor

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 28 May 2019 12:19 AM
Effaermon wrote: ↑
Mon 27 May 2019 11:56 PM
Sindralor wrote: ↑
Mon 27 May 2019 2:47 PM
League of Legends is dogshit if you play top lane
If you get counterpicked you dont even get to play the game

Can someone translate this?

Rough translation, I like to first pick top laners with obvious weaknesses then complain when I get counterpicked.

Spotted the Malphite player

Tue 28 May 2019 10:16 PM by lolhisup

I think it's because most of us are mentally messed up in some way, I mean, why are we trying to play this 20 year old game still? Most of the world moved on. And then, you get the same people, free shard after free shard, and it is like a fine liquor that becomes more refined by repeated distillation, the toxicity becomes more and more potent. Servers may start somewhat strong but then it goes down fast because of the toxic people that ruin everything, well ruin everything for everyone but themselves, but ultimately they will be the undoing of themselves at some point, as there won't be anyone left who wants to put up with it. But I guess they win in the end because they got to "enjoy" the game the longest?

For me I think the way to enjoy this game is to check up on it every once in a while and stick my foot in the water to see if it is comfortable or not.

Wed 29 May 2019 12:00 AM by djegu

lolhisup wrote: ↑
Tue 28 May 2019 10:16 PM
I think it's because most of us are mentally messed up in some way, I mean, why are we trying to play this 20 year old game still? Most of the world moved on. And then, you get the same people, free shard after free shard, and it is like a fine liquor that becomes more refined by repeated distillation, the toxicity becomes more and more potent. Servers may start somewhat strong but then it goes down fast because of the toxic people that ruin everything, well ruin everything for everyone but themselves, but ultimately they will be the undoing of themselves at some point, as there won't be anyone left who wants to put up with it. But I guess they win in the end because they got to "enjoy" the game the longest?

For me I think the way to enjoy this game is to check up on it every once in a while and stick my foot in the water to see if it is comfortable or not.

Thank you, great summary.

Thu 30 May 2019 10:40 AM by Chaskha

lolhisup wrote: ↑
Tue 28 May 2019 10:16 PM
I think it's because most of us are mentally messed up in some way, I mean, why are we trying to play this 20 year old game still? Most of the world moved on. And then, you get the same people, free shard after free shard, and it is like a fine liquor that becomes more refined by repeated distillation, the toxicity becomes more and more potent. Servers may start somewhat strong but then it goes down fast because of the toxic people that ruin everything, well ruin everything for everyone but themselves, but ultimately they will be the undoing of themselves at some point, as there won't be anyone left who wants to put up with it. But I guess they win in the end because they got to "enjoy" the game the longest?

For me I think the way to enjoy this game is to check up on it every once in a while and stick my foot in the water to see if it is comfortable or not.

I just think that the vocal minority of QQ people nowadays are listened to instead of sent to hell with a good "c'mon stfu, crybaby"... DAoC had drama back in 2002, forum feuds, insults, it hasn't changed. Just do not pay attention to whiners and life is great.
I agree we all are mentally screwed a bit though

Thu 30 May 2019 8:18 PM by Siouxsie

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Tue 28 May 2019 12:18 AM
Effaermon wrote: ↑
Sat 11 May 2019 8:25 PM
Well, I am sad to see you go and am happy you have stated why. The population has tanked significantly...I'd love to know why those missing folks left.

Pretty much because most of the player base was looking for something similar to the Gareth/Lamorak/Ector ruleset.

Uthgard was too feature lite. People left.
Phoenix was too custom content feature heavy. (Slowly started to feel like ToA) So people left.

People just get sick of the 24/7 365 beta thing as well. Too many sweeping changes too quickly.

One thing I don't get:

Why have a beta period and even an instant-50 period when, after launch, you completely change things around not only once, but many times?
I feel like, with all these changes, we should all get 10 free full respecs and 10 free RA respecs just so we can figure out how to work around the changes.

Especially now that we can't farm enough gold in 3 hours to buy a respec stone.

Sat 8 Jun 2019 4:10 AM by otinanai

Personally I quit because of flag porting and vanish making solo stealthing a frustrating experience. This is why you need to be careful with custom changes. One mistake and you alienate a big part of your playerbase.

Sat 8 Jun 2019 5:14 AM by silentcolin

otinanai wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Jun 2019 4:10 AM
Personally I quit because of flag porting and vanish making solo stealthing a frustrating experience. This is why you need to be careful with custom changes. One mistake and you alienate a big part of your playerbase.

Mostly this.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 2:58 PM by Frug

I left because I like PVE, and having done that I didn't feel like doing it again. Nothing wrong with the game, I just get over the novelty at some point.

The only freeshard of any game that I've seen that doesn't follow this "initial interest - hype - decline - equilibrium" curve is Project 1999. And it could be said that it did the same thing, it's just had a lot more "equilibrium" time than most admins/owners are willing to put in the time to keep things running. Like players, GMs get bored with it too.

IMO, a *VERY SMALL* portion of this is due to fixes, changes, patches, etc. It's 99% the novelty wearing off and the nostalgia having been satiated.

But, reasonable people disagree.

Thu 13 Jun 2019 3:00 PM by gotwqqd

Because it’s a 20 year old game?
Where ex players come to relive a game they QUIT!

Fri 14 Jun 2019 11:42 AM by vadox

because admins of these free shards are not video game industry professionals and work for free. slowly everyone fall to biased actions, time and staff constraints to keep up with fixes, introducing and promising things to destroy competition, not properly communicating with players - we all know its a non-profit business but players make this server so no matter how you look at it, player's opinions should drive the changes, population or lack of should drive the changes, each change being researched for potential damage/benefit and not plugged into players on a weekly basis.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 1:20 AM by Word

This one is sadly falling off the cliff now, population wise.