Back to back weekends with new lowest pop count

Started 18 Mar 2019
by darad0
in Tavern
I'm impressed the numbers were so high for so long but it seems now the server will be settling. Also the weeknight counts are down. Let's check back in 1 more month and see what the pop looks like.

https://unixgeek.com/phoenix.html

I've also noticed the discord's game advice channel is much less active than it was 2-3 weeks ago (at least during EU times). This correlates with the graphs above.
Mon 18 Mar 2019 10:51 AM by dudis
I guess Saint Patrick’s Day could explain some of the reduced numbers too.
Mon 18 Mar 2019 12:54 PM by dbeattie71
Mid still seems to have a healthy pop, yesterday at one point there were 212 more mids than hibs and the top 4 classes listed in serverinfo were Skalds (160), BDs (158), Shaman (142), and Healers (140). Maybe the zerg stomping has stopped some from logging and a few more to switch to Mid.
Mon 18 Mar 2019 12:58 PM by Muradin
Nicer weather will also reduce the pop a tad. The numbers are not as important as the trends. I am seeing a good bit of brand new players coming to the game which is good, also seeing a good % of them hitting 50 which is even better. The server is pretty balanced, and the new task system has had a good effect on spreading out the action. When uth was healthy you could see the signs that it was on its way to shit a few months in, the low lvl zones were dead, and uth couldn't replace its inital player base. PHX has not had these problems so far.
Mon 18 Mar 2019 1:10 PM by gnefner
Server is still very healthy, and will be so for a long time I foresee. But yes, it seems now some of the more casual people might be jumping ship, together with, at least as far as I know, some of the poeple tired of the zerging.. I think in time, we will sit at around 2500-300, which is still the same or even more as the org US live servers had as capacity.
Mon 18 Mar 2019 1:52 PM by Ardri
Spring break, st patricks day weekend, 2+ month old server. Not surprising really. All that said, still getting zerg'd down by 4+ mfg during NA rvr timezone...
Mon 18 Mar 2019 4:29 PM by XLGrandma
they lost me with the teleport stuff....i'll be keeping an eye out to return when they base the game around taking keeps/relics like its supposed to be, not just a rp farmfest.
Mon 18 Mar 2019 4:39 PM by defiasbandit
A lot of players are leaving or playing less due to the current task system. I never got bored during the beta. The New New RAs and the way teleporting works has me disinterested.
Mon 18 Mar 2019 4:42 PM by keen
XLGrandma wrote:
Mon 18 Mar 2019 4:29 PM
they lost me with the teleport stuff....i'll be keeping an eye out to return when they base the game around taking keeps/relics like its supposed to be, not just a rp farmfest.
Old fz keeps and relics are poorly designed. Noone wants to fight those for longer than a week until everyone realised again how bad they are. So open world PvP is the best old fz can offer and to my taste is much superior to any keep fights even with new fz.
Mon 18 Mar 2019 5:30 PM by relvinian
XLGrandma wrote:
Mon 18 Mar 2019 4:29 PM
they lost me with the teleport stuff....i'll be keeping an eye out to return when they base the game around taking keeps/relics like its supposed to be, not just a rp farmfest.

Can i have your stuff?
Mon 18 Mar 2019 5:37 PM by Muradin
XLGrandma wrote:
Mon 18 Mar 2019 4:29 PM
they lost me with the teleport stuff....i'll be keeping an eye out to return when they base the game around taking keeps/relics like its supposed to be, not just a rp farmfest.

I hated the port system at first but the changes they have made, plus the updated task system means I maybe port 1/4th the time I did when they first dropped. TBH I even forget they are there half the time. I think they have the porter system as correctly balanced as your going to get it. I also think they have successfully split the action without killing it.

Don't hate the changes for the sake of hating. I hated both for specific reasons and they were both addressed.
Mon 18 Mar 2019 5:47 PM by Aervine
Muradin wrote:
Mon 18 Mar 2019 5:37 PM
XLGrandma wrote:
Mon 18 Mar 2019 4:29 PM
they lost me with the teleport stuff....i'll be keeping an eye out to return when they base the game around taking keeps/relics like its supposed to be, not just a rp farmfest.

I hated the port system at first but the changes they have made, plus the updated task system means I maybe port 1/4th the time I did when they first dropped. TBH I even forget they are there half the time. I think they have the porter system as correctly balanced as your going to get it. I also think they have successfully split the action without killing it.

Don't hate the changes for the sake of hating. I hated both for specific reasons and they were both addressed.

The only time I use the teleport now is when I initially go out for the first run to get a jump in or if I come back from being afk for a bit. Otherwise it is just silly to wait around for it when I could just head out into the action. I do still capture the flags I can to allow others to teleport in while I'm out and about though.

I think overall the teleporting is good and allows people to get into the action, I would however prefer if they were tied to the keeps though.
Tue 19 Mar 2019 3:53 AM by kmark101
The biggest advantage of the teleports is if a player suddenly afks he can catch up later easily. This is very friendly to groups and puts them into action, instead of waiting endlessly for that 1 player always.

Pop drop is noticeable, 75% of our guild stopped logging in, blaming various real life stuffs, but they all claim "I'll be back". We shall see. Also lots of new players every day. Midgard +200 number should not mislead anyone, those are pure pve players who never set foot in rvr, so it doesnt matter.
Tue 19 Mar 2019 5:31 AM by Sofely
If people stop Phœnix just because of Zergs and porters , they would have stop very soon whatever happens, so that’s not a problem !

When you love this game, you play, even if there are little things that you don’t like, simple as that
Tue 19 Mar 2019 6:11 AM by dbeattie71
kmark101 wrote:
Tue 19 Mar 2019 3:53 AM
The biggest advantage of the teleports is if a player suddenly afks he can catch up later easily. This is very friendly to groups and puts them into action, instead of waiting endlessly for that 1 player always.

Pop drop is noticeable, 75% of our guild stopped logging in, blaming various real life stuffs, but they all claim "I'll be back". We shall see. Also lots of new players every day. Midgard +200 number should not mislead anyone, those are pure pve players who never set foot in rvr, so it doesnt matter.

Yeah, those duos getting run down by 2 fgs with a side groups of BDs are just looking for mobs in the fz. 😂
Tue 19 Mar 2019 8:28 AM by Durgrim
kmark101 wrote:
Tue 19 Mar 2019 3:53 AM
The biggest advantage of the teleports is if a player suddenly afks he can catch up later easily. This is very friendly to groups and puts them into action, instead of waiting endlessly for that 1 player always.

Pop drop is noticeable, 75% of our guild stopped logging in, blaming various real life stuffs, but they all claim "I'll be back". We shall see. Also lots of new players every day. Midgard +200 number should not mislead anyone, those are pure pve players who never set foot in rvr, so it doesnt matter.

wow...so you do know 200 people on midgard and their gaming habits?
Impressive

/ironyoff
Tue 19 Mar 2019 9:37 AM by lurker
Just like to point out that we are discussing concurrent user numbers - not total active players. It’s an important distinction.

What does that mean? Well the number could fluctuate drastically even if not a single player decided to leave the server.

E.g. getting your character to 50 and templated? Perhaps your playing 4 hours a night to get this done. Once complete you may change you behaviour to playing only 1 hour a night after peak time. Meaning max concurrent players number drops but total active player number does not.

I’m not even suggesting this is the case and no one is leaving just that fluctuations in these numbers are nuanced and only the devs with access to the internal systems could give an accurate picture here.

IN reality it will be a mix of all these things. Of course some players will leave, some will play less after getting kitted for RvR, some will be seasonal players and others will take a break because of changes they don’t like.

Just be careful not to flip out based on numbers which are unclear in their meaning.
Tue 19 Mar 2019 12:57 PM by Greenangel
I would predict numbers go down as spring summers comes with better weather.

Or people just play less or at more different random times.

I probley play less summer on weekends. But be around more on week nights days.

That's why it is normally better open a server at start of winter or end summer like September
Tue 19 Mar 2019 1:37 PM by Aervine
dbeattie71 wrote:
Tue 19 Mar 2019 6:11 AM
kmark101 wrote:
Tue 19 Mar 2019 3:53 AM
The biggest advantage of the teleports is if a player suddenly afks he can catch up later easily. This is very friendly to groups and puts them into action, instead of waiting endlessly for that 1 player always.

Pop drop is noticeable, 75% of our guild stopped logging in, blaming various real life stuffs, but they all claim "I'll be back". We shall see. Also lots of new players every day. Midgard +200 number should not mislead anyone, those are pure pve players who never set foot in rvr, so it doesnt matter.

Yeah, those duos getting run down by 2 fgs with a side groups of BDs are just looking for mobs in the fz. 😂

Yeah you can definitely see the difference some nights in RvR. Sunday night EST there were ~220 mid 50s, ~130 hib 50s, ~120 alb 50s in frontier. The almost double mid numbers definitely showed. At one point there were reported 7-8 fgm running around together.
Tue 19 Mar 2019 2:35 PM by Brokenstring
I don't know too many gamer nerds that will suddenly go out into the sun because it's warmer. Certainly isn't true of me, although I wish it was.
Tue 19 Mar 2019 3:04 PM by dbeattie71
Aervine wrote:
Tue 19 Mar 2019 1:37 PM
dbeattie71 wrote:
Tue 19 Mar 2019 6:11 AM
kmark101 wrote:
Tue 19 Mar 2019 3:53 AM
The biggest advantage of the teleports is if a player suddenly afks he can catch up later easily. This is very friendly to groups and puts them into action, instead of waiting endlessly for that 1 player always.

Pop drop is noticeable, 75% of our guild stopped logging in, blaming various real life stuffs, but they all claim "I'll be back". We shall see. Also lots of new players every day. Midgard +200 number should not mislead anyone, those are pure pve players who never set foot in rvr, so it doesnt matter.

Yeah, those duos getting run down by 2 fgs with a side groups of BDs are just looking for mobs in the fz. 😂

Yeah you can definitely see the difference some nights in RvR. Sunday night EST there were ~220 mid 50s, ~130 hib 50s, ~120 alb 50s in frontier. The almost double mid numbers definitely showed. At one point there were reported 7-8 fgm running around together.

Yeah, people can play how they want. I have stealth so I can avoid the zergs. Kudos to those that don’t, I don’t know how they keep going out and getting run over. It’s probably frustrating for the mid zergers too. Less targets and getting 23 rps per kill. The balance is even more out of whack when the top 4 classes are Skald, Shaman, BD and Healer because the top class for hib will be Animist so the difference in rvr pop is more like 250.
Tue 19 Mar 2019 5:08 PM by otinanai
It was obvious that the pop would drop after they added flag porting and ruined RvR. Hopefully the devs can fix it before it's too late (by removing porting in RvR)
Tue 19 Mar 2019 5:59 PM by kistfd3s
Personally I feel that a lot of the changes that have been made are band-aid fixes, they don't really address the root causes of the issues and often are not well thought through. They do not attempt to consider the long-term effects of the changes they make and as such can occasionally produce undesirable outcomes that could have been pretty easily predicted.

For instance they clearly didn't consider how changing the RvR tasks to its current state, in combination with exp items, would essentially remove a percentage of players from even bothering to try and find a group for leveling. Why bother to spam in LFG while you chain kill yellows / ojs for kill tasks hoping a focus pull group takes pity on you and sends an invite when you can just run out into an RvR zone, die, go AFK and do whatever you want (read, clean the house, laundry), rinse and repeat every 15 minutes. Even at 49 you'll get roughly ~50% of a bubble every 15 minute task increment that goes by. You don't even need to find another player to die to, you can just go die to keep guards. Those stealthers you hate camping outside your PK or RvR zone gate killing greys? They're now your best friends, they maximize that time you can go AFK.

I also believe they do not do enough to motivate the player base to interact in unconventional ways. I have many ideas on how to do this but this is not the thread for me to write them up in, especially as they're not all fully thought through and I'd want to vet out any badly flawed ideas beforehand. If people genuinely want to hear ideas from a developer who has worked on major MMOs in the past, and has been in similar conversations many times before, I'm open to it, but it would take time and research, and some cooperation from the developers in terms of providing data about player habits on the server. That being said my experience in the industry also taught me that if players and developers aren't interested in seeing some changes beyond QoL then it's pretty pointless to even get into the conversation. (I learned that helping out on Vanguard at SOE.)

I wrote to the devs and offered to contribute in any way I can (whether that be coding, providing a new perspective on their ideas, or even donating money for server costs), and received no response. I appreciate all of their hard work, it's their server and they're free to do as they please with it. I'll support them regardless of their decisions because I understand that this is no easy task.

That being said, my honest thoughts are that If you want to see these servers survive more than a year with a steady population then you have to start thinking outside the box of conventional DAoC and start actually investigating the root causes of problems instead of putting band-aids on top of them.
Tue 19 Mar 2019 6:10 PM by defiasbandit
kistfd3s wrote:
Tue 19 Mar 2019 5:59 PM
Personally I feel that a lot of the changes that have been made are band-aid fixes, they don't really address the root causes of the issues and often are not well thought through. They do not attempt to consider the long-term effects of the changes they make and as such can occasionally produce undesirable outcomes that could have been pretty easily predicted.

For instance they clearly didn't consider how changing the RvR tasks to its current state, in combination with exp items, would essentially remove a percentage of players from even bothering to try and find a group for leveling. Why bother to spam in LFG while you chain kill yellows / ojs for kill tasks hoping a focus pull group takes pity on you and sends an invite when you can just run out into an RvR zone, die, go AFK and do whatever you want (read, clean the house, laundry), rinse and repeat every 15 minutes. Even at 49 you'll get roughly ~50% of a bubble every 15 minute task increment that goes by. You don't even need to find another player to die to, you can just go die to keep guards. Those stealthers you hate camping outside your PK or RvR zone gate killing greys? They're now your best friends, they maximize that time you can go AFK.

I also believe they do not do enough to motivate the player base to interact in unconventional ways. I have many ideas on how to do this but this is not the thread for me to write them up in, especially as they're not all fully thought through and I'd want to vet out any badly flawed ideas beforehand. If people genuinely want to hear ideas from a developer who has worked on major MMOs in the past, and has been in similar conversations many times before, I'm open to it, but it would take time and research, and some cooperation from the developers in terms of providing data about player habits on the server. That being said my experience in the industry also taught me that if players and developers aren't interested in seeing some changes beyond QoL then it's pretty pointless to even get into the conversation. (I learned that helping out on Vanguard at SOE.)

I wrote to the devs and offered to contribute in any way I can (whether that be coding, providing a new perspective on their ideas, or even donating money for server costs), and received no response. I appreciate all of their hard work, it's their server and they're free to do as they please with it. I'll support them regardless of their decisions because I understand that this is no easy task.

That being said, my honest thoughts are that If you want to see these servers survive more than a year with a steady population then you have to start thinking outside the box of conventional DAoC and start actually investigating the root causes of problems instead of putting band-aids on top of them.

Exactly.
Tue 19 Mar 2019 6:31 PM by dbeattie71
kistfd3s wrote:
Tue 19 Mar 2019 5:59 PM
Personally I feel that a lot of the changes that have been made are band-aid fixes, they don't really address the root causes of the issues and often are not well thought through. They do not attempt to consider the long-term effects of the changes they make and as such can occasionally produce undesirable outcomes that could have been pretty easily predicted.

For instance they clearly didn't consider how changing the RvR tasks to its current state, in combination with exp items, would essentially remove a percentage of players from even bothering to try and find a group for leveling. Why bother to spam in LFG while you chain kill yellows / ojs for kill tasks hoping a focus pull group takes pity on you and sends an invite when you can just run out into an RvR zone, die, go AFK and do whatever you want (read, clean the house, laundry), rinse and repeat every 15 minutes. Even at 49 you'll get roughly ~50% of a bubble every 15 minute task increment that goes by. You don't even need to find another player to die to, you can just go die to keep guards. Those stealthers you hate camping outside your PK or RvR zone gate killing greys? They're now your best friends, they maximize that time you can go AFK.

I also believe they do not do enough to motivate the player base to interact in unconventional ways. I have many ideas on how to do this but this is not the thread for me to write them up in, especially as they're not all fully thought through and I'd want to vet out any badly flawed ideas beforehand. If people genuinely want to hear ideas from a developer who has worked on major MMOs in the past, and has been in similar conversations many times before, I'm open to it, but it would take time and research, and some cooperation from the developers in terms of providing data about player habits on the server. That being said my experience in the industry also taught me that if players and developers aren't interested in seeing some changes beyond QoL then it's pretty pointless to even get into the conversation. (I learned that helping out on Vanguard at SOE.)

I wrote to the devs and offered to contribute in any way I can (whether that be coding, providing a new perspective on their ideas, or even donating money for server costs), and received no response. I appreciate all of their hard work, it's their server and they're free to do as they please with it. I'll support them regardless of their decisions because I understand that this is no easy task.

That being said, my honest thoughts are that If you want to see these servers survive more than a year with a steady population then you have to start thinking outside the box of conventional DAoC and start actually investigating the root causes of problems instead of putting band-aids on top of them.

Lol, I wondered why, grey con to me, were running out of DL, sitting down and going afk.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 10:47 PM by Armsmancer
Most of the posts here

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Questionable_cause

None of you know why the number is going down, but don't let that stop you from smuggling in that the reason must be something you have complained about in the past and are standing on this correlation and proclaim it as causation to further your unjustified and non-demonstrated conclusions and statements of changes you want all of us to endure.

To put it more simply:

The numbers were artificially boosted before for several reasons such as climate and just release hype. No game keeps its launch hype population over time but here we have people pointing at the launch number and where we stand now and acting like something is wrong. Join the rest of us who have played a video game before and acknowledge nothing is wrong here.

I see the same names making the same doomsday proclamations they have since beta. They said if this or that didn't change launch would suck and we'd be lucky to have a few hundred consistent players. The same players are in this thread, clearly have moved the goal posts, but have not changed their message. These people do not know how to examine data, and should be as far from a voice in the decision making process as possible. If they had a case they wouldn't be basing it off of ambiguous things like a population fluctuation they simply cannot put their finger on the cause of ; they assume, then proceed as if they confirmed that, they confirmed nothing.
Thu 21 Mar 2019 11:29 PM by kmark101
kistfd3s wrote:
Tue 19 Mar 2019 5:59 PM
Personally I feel that a lot of the changes that have been made are band-aid fixes, they don't really address the root causes of the issues and often are not well thought through. They do not attempt to consider the long-term effects of the changes they make and as such can occasionally produce undesirable outcomes that could have been pretty easily predicted.

For instance they clearly didn't consider how changing the RvR tasks to its current state, in combination with exp items, would essentially remove a percentage of players from even bothering to try and find a group for leveling.

I also believe they do not do enough to motivate the player base to interact in unconventional ways.

That being said, my honest thoughts are that If you want to see these servers survive more than a year with a steady population then you have to start thinking outside the box of conventional DAoC and start actually investigating the root causes of problems instead of putting band-aids on top of them.

This is exactly the wrong way of thinking for small, agile team projects. What do you expect, that the handful of actual developers this project has should quit their jobs, leave their families and sit in a cave for a year to ponder about grand scheme ideas? Would that make you more satisfied, will you consider those changes then "well considered and thoughtful"? Even if they all fail at the first actual real user data?

Or would you prefer slick coding with iterations to try out various things, with closely monitored real data and easy backups? Because this is exactly what the Phoenix team is doing (again, in their free time)

Your proposed method is a recipe for failure. What the team is doing (quick, agile iterations, with mostly bug-free small implementation cycles) is the best possible way how you can push a project like this forward.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 12:15 AM by Armsmancer
For instance they clearly didn't consider how changing the RvR tasks to its current state, in combination with exp items, would essentially remove a percentage of players from even bothering to try and find a group for leveling.

So what? This isn't even the case by the way. Please log in and flip to LFG channel and screenshot now and then 10 minutes from now and show us all this void of "players even bothering to try and find a group for leveling." I think we won't be seeing two screen shots from you because this would expose you doth protest too much.

I also believe they do not do enough to motivate the player base to interact in unconventional ways.
Like how, with emotes? What is an unconventional way to interact with others we should be motivated in doing?

These are non-sequitur points that have no business in the data gathering or decision/action plans to do about anything at all. Seriously what are these two things even doing here in a discussion about player counts? Are we to believe people are not logging in because it is easier to level up? The first point is clearly about leveling so we aren't talking about bored RR6+'s.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 1:38 AM by Luluko
I still play way too much, I am currently at my third toon to reach lvl 50 and doing solo/smallman rvr when its less zergy and when I can get a decent grp at EU prime there is still lots of zerg action which gets you rps and only like 3-5 deaths in those zerg 2-3 hours played is already a win in my book. Also some new games like DMC5 and Sekiro just came out those could also explain the drop in population and I didnt even have the time yet to start one of those.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 2:00 AM by kistfd3s
kmark101 wrote:
Thu 21 Mar 2019 11:29 PM
This is exactly the wrong way of thinking for small, agile team projects. What do you expect, that the handful of actual developers this project has should quit their jobs, leave their families and sit in a cave for a year to ponder about grand scheme ideas? Would that make you more satisfied, will you consider those changes then "well considered and thoughtful"? Even if they all fail at the first actual real user data?

Or would you prefer slick coding with iterations to try out various things, with closely monitored real data and easy backups? Because this is exactly what the Phoenix team is doing (again, in their free time)

Your proposed method is a recipe for failure. What the team is doing (quick, agile iterations, with mostly bug-free small implementation cycles) is the best possible way how you can push a project like this forward.


Ok. You're entitled to your opinion and I'm not interested in arguing with you about it. Have a good one and I hope to see you in game!


Armsmancer wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 12:15 AM
For instance they clearly didn't consider how changing the RvR tasks to its current state, in combination with exp items, would essentially remove a percentage of players from even bothering to try and find a group for leveling.

So what? This isn't even the case by the way. Please log in and flip to LFG channel and screenshot now and then 10 minutes from now and show us all this void of "players even bothering to try and find a group for leveling." I think we won't be seeing two screen shots from you because this would expose you doth protest too much.

I also believe they do not do enough to motivate the player base to interact in unconventional ways.
Like how, with emotes? What is an unconventional way to interact with others we should be motivated in doing?

These are non-sequitur points that have no business in the data gathering or decision/action plans to do about anything at all. Seriously what are these two things even doing here in a discussion about player counts? Are we to believe people are not logging in because it is easier to level up? The first point is clearly about leveling so we aren't talking about bored RR6+'s.


Same as above.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 2:36 AM by Frigzy
kistfd3s wrote:
Tue 19 Mar 2019 5:59 PM
Personally I feel that a lot of the changes that have been made are band-aid fixes, they don't really address the root causes of the issues and often are not well thought through. They do not attempt to consider the long-term effects of the changes they make and as such can occasionally produce undesirable outcomes that could have been pretty easily predicted.

For instance they clearly didn't consider how changing the RvR tasks to its current state, in combination with exp items, would essentially remove a percentage of players from even bothering to try and find a group for leveling. Why bother to spam in LFG while you chain kill yellows / ojs for kill tasks hoping a focus pull group takes pity on you and sends an invite when you can just run out into an RvR zone, die, go AFK and do whatever you want (read, clean the house, laundry), rinse and repeat every 15 minutes. Even at 49 you'll get roughly ~50% of a bubble every 15 minute task increment that goes by. You don't even need to find another player to die to, you can just go die to keep guards. Those stealthers you hate camping outside your PK or RvR zone gate killing greys? They're now your best friends, they maximize that time you can go AFK.

I also believe they do not do enough to motivate the player base to interact in unconventional ways. I have many ideas on how to do this but this is not the thread for me to write them up in, especially as they're not all fully thought through and I'd want to vet out any badly flawed ideas beforehand. If people genuinely want to hear ideas from a developer who has worked on major MMOs in the past, and has been in similar conversations many times before, I'm open to it, but it would take time and research, and some cooperation from the developers in terms of providing data about player habits on the server. That being said my experience in the industry also taught me that if players and developers aren't interested in seeing some changes beyond QoL then it's pretty pointless to even get into the conversation. (I learned that helping out on Vanguard at SOE.)

I wrote to the devs and offered to contribute in any way I can (whether that be coding, providing a new perspective on their ideas, or even donating money for server costs), and received no response. I appreciate all of their hard work, it's their server and they're free to do as they please with it. I'll support them regardless of their decisions because I understand that this is no easy task.

That being said, my honest thoughts are that If you want to see these servers survive more than a year with a steady population then you have to start thinking outside the box of conventional DAoC and start actually investigating the root causes of problems instead of putting band-aids on top of them.

Amen.

PS: Population drop is actually a combination of all the points above as well as the mere fact that the server launch is always an incredible hypefest that's bound to recalibrate after a certain period. Server launches, especially DAoC ones are a prime recipe for a gaming burn out. Plenty of people sacrificed some RL to play Phoenix and are now getting back in to that old rhythm, inevitable cutting back on Dark Age a bit again.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 3:04 AM by jg777
A poll would more accurately reflect why population is lower and speculating or projecting causes is not meaningful.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 9:33 AM by Kimahri
population started to dip the same week that devs played around with envenom mechanics
Fri 22 Mar 2019 10:08 AM by florin
Kimahri wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 9:33 AM
population started to dip the same week that devs played around with envenom mechanics

Good god what a tool thing to say
Fri 22 Mar 2019 1:06 PM by Vlalkor
For me not playing right now, its a combo of RL, porting system and plain boredom from waiting to get RvR grps if guild isnt logged in, not worth my time right now to even try. I really do not like the porting system tho. Oh look i ported to a point (solo) got killed wait 15 min get RPs, repeat= not fun for me.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 3:09 PM by keen
Vlalkor wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 1:06 PM
Oh look i ported to a point (solo) got killed wait 15 min get RPs, repeat= not fun for me.
Porting is more or less shut down except for the home realm. I wouldn't call it gaming if you just go for the 15 min task rps, so for sure this is no fun. It also incredible inefficient, with rr2 you get 3k rp/h with that, much less if you are higher rr.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 3:14 PM by Kimahri
florin wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 10:08 AM
Kimahri wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 9:33 AM
population started to dip the same week that devs played around with envenom mechanics

Good god what a tool thing to say

It's true tho, go look at the Unix geek graph. I'm not saying it's the cause of population drop, just an observation
Fri 22 Mar 2019 7:40 PM by Quik
So I thought I would stop by and see how things are going.

I love how people like to say they KNOW the reasons the population is dropping when in reality NO ONE knows the reason for the population drop as a whole. The dev's here have always done a wonderful job as far as the game goes and I hope they continue with their success.

As far as my OPINION, since no one knows for sure, I personally think the drop is mainly from the frustration at RvR.

I personally think most people are quitting because they added ports. I think this immediately caused issues with players and what they expected from DAoC. I personally haven't played in quite awhile now and it comes down to ports for me. I don't want ports in the game period for rvr. I think it ruins the rvr experience for a lot of players. Personally I believe it is a combination of things related to how RvR is set up, but I really think it comes down to ports. If they ever takes ports out I would happily be one of the first coming back and playing again =).

Keep up the good work Pheonix staff, but I really hope you take a hard look at ports. All they do is make it easy for afkers to get there RP's (level doesn't matter as lvl 40's did it just as much as lvl 1's). Make people run and be active, stop encouraging them to take the easy and lazy way out.

Good luck everyone and have fun!!!
Fri 22 Mar 2019 7:56 PM by chryso
Imo you need to expect a certain amount of population drop. This is an almost 20 year old game. I think many people came to it for the nostalgia factor and they have made their toon and rvr'd a bit. There are other games out there that they want to play as well. I am not saying these people are leaving for good but they are not going to spend ALL of their time on this game. Did anyone seriously think that go live numbers would be permanent? That never happens.
Fri 22 Mar 2019 10:21 PM by Armsmancer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc

Done going into detail trying to connect dots for people, but I started growing a beard again the same week pop dropped so OFC I can shave if I want pop to return

reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Tue 26 Mar 2019 4:31 AM by SaintRon
Frigzy wrote:
Fri 22 Mar 2019 2:36 AM
kistfd3s wrote:
Tue 19 Mar 2019 5:59 PM
Personally I feel that a lot of the changes that have been made are band-aid fixes, they don't really address the root causes of the issues and often are not well thought through. They do not attempt to consider the long-term effects of the changes they make and as such can occasionally produce undesirable outcomes that could have been pretty easily predicted.

For instance they clearly didn't consider how changing the RvR tasks to its current state, in combination with exp items, would essentially remove a percentage of players from even bothering to try and find a group for leveling. Why bother to spam in LFG while you chain kill yellows / ojs for kill tasks hoping a focus pull group takes pity on you and sends an invite when you can just run out into an RvR zone, die, go AFK and do whatever you want (read, clean the house, laundry), rinse and repeat every 15 minutes. Even at 49 you'll get roughly ~50% of a bubble every 15 minute task increment that goes by. You don't even need to find another player to die to, you can just go die to keep guards. Those stealthers you hate camping outside your PK or RvR zone gate killing greys? They're now your best friends, they maximize that time you can go AFK.

I also believe they do not do enough to motivate the player base to interact in unconventional ways. I have many ideas on how to do this but this is not the thread for me to write them up in, especially as they're not all fully thought through and I'd want to vet out any badly flawed ideas beforehand. If people genuinely want to hear ideas from a developer who has worked on major MMOs in the past, and has been in similar conversations many times before, I'm open to it, but it would take time and research, and some cooperation from the developers in terms of providing data about player habits on the server. That being said my experience in the industry also taught me that if players and developers aren't interested in seeing some changes beyond QoL then it's pretty pointless to even get into the conversation. (I learned that helping out on Vanguard at SOE.)

I wrote to the devs and offered to contribute in any way I can (whether that be coding, providing a new perspective on their ideas, or even donating money for server costs), and received no response. I appreciate all of their hard work, it's their server and they're free to do as they please with it. I'll support them regardless of their decisions because I understand that this is no easy task.

That being said, my honest thoughts are that If you want to see these servers survive more than a year with a steady population then you have to start thinking outside the box of conventional DAoC and start actually investigating the root causes of problems instead of putting band-aids on top of them.

Amen.

PS: Population drop is actually a combination of all the points above as well as the mere fact that the server launch is always an incredible hypefest that's bound to recalibrate after a certain period. Server launches, especially DAoC ones are a prime recipe for a gaming burn out. Plenty of people sacrificed some RL to play Phoenix and are now getting back in to that old rhythm, inevitable cutting back on Dark Age a bit again.


If players were more accepting of less than ideal classes I'd support this sentiment - but since their approach is basically role a strong PVE class or solo - you can't fault the devs for putting in strong solo options.

DAoC players are horribly dogmatic and are literally their own worst enemy.
Tue 26 Mar 2019 1:30 PM by Elises
All my guild leaving (around 25 actives players ) because they ban 1 players for creating an account for his wife and son on the same computer . He never looging two account at the same time , its crazy too see how many people get ban for this reason , the population will continue to drop fast for this kind of reason.
Tue 26 Mar 2019 6:44 PM by Amp_Phetamine
Elises wrote:
Tue 26 Mar 2019 1:30 PM
All my guild leaving (around 25 actives players ) because they ban 1 players for creating an account for his wife and son on the same computer . He never looging two account at the same time , its crazy too see how many people get ban for this reason , the population will continue to drop fast for this kind of reason.

I find this incredibly difficult to even believe is half-true at face value...
Tue 26 Mar 2019 7:20 PM by Pao
I don't know why is there an issue with the tasks and porting. I ignore the task already for a while and there is plenty of action in all zones.

Task only for 35+ chars would be great. It's annoying to have 5+ greys adding all the time.
Tue 26 Mar 2019 7:49 PM by kmark101
Ports are amazing as they help to get into the action faster:

- Now we don't need to endlessly wait at portal keep for that 1 afk guy (it's always one, never two or three, always only one), cause we can run out and he can port when he is back and catch up. Alone for this, the port system is amazing because it saves lots of time (and annoyance) for the 7 other players.
- Non-speed classes (and even groups on caster speed, etc..) have some chance to venture into different zones due to ports.
- Ports are only available in 1 frorntier out of the 3, so what's the issue for ppl who hate? Just go to the other zones without ports...
- Hibs have a better chance to get back into the fight in Emain as soon as possible, instead of waiting and sticking afk for minutes after each loss.

My only comment about ports is that they should be connected to keeps, not flags, it would be even better that way (and more immersive as well). If you don't want to overhaul the system just change the flag coordinates and place the flags inside the walls of keeps
Tue 26 Mar 2019 8:22 PM by Fooj Fujiyama
Good I hope it keeps going down, tired of non stop zerging!
Tue 26 Mar 2019 8:32 PM by defiasbandit
I am convinced the current porting system hurt the population.
Tue 26 Mar 2019 10:31 PM by SaintRon
Elises wrote:
Tue 26 Mar 2019 1:30 PM
All my guild leaving (around 25 actives players ) because they ban 1 players for creating an account for his wife and son on the same computer . He never looging two account at the same time , its crazy too see how many people get ban for this reason , the population will continue to drop fast for this kind of reason.

Going to call BS.
Tue 26 Mar 2019 10:33 PM by SaintRon
kmark101 wrote:
Tue 26 Mar 2019 7:49 PM
Ports are amazing as they help to get into the action faster:

- Now we don't need to endlessly wait at portal keep for that 1 afk guy (it's always one, never two or three, always only one), cause we can run out and he can port when he is back and catch up. Alone for this, the port system is amazing because it saves lots of time (and annoyance) for the 7 other players.
- Non-speed classes (and even groups on caster speed, etc..) have some chance to venture into different zones due to ports.
- Ports are only available in 1 frorntier out of the 3, so what's the issue for ppl who hate? Just go to the other zones without ports...
- Hibs have a better chance to get back into the fight in Emain as soon as possible, instead of waiting and sticking afk for minutes after each loss.

My only comment about ports is that they should be connected to keeps, not flags, it would be even better that way (and more immersive as well). If you don't want to overhaul the system just change the flag coordinates and place the flags inside the walls of keeps

I like the keep idea - makes keeps more strategic and theme standpoint it would be like people waking up as you attacked.
Wed 27 Mar 2019 12:02 AM by Armsmancer
defiasbandit wrote:
Tue 26 Mar 2019 8:32 PM
I am convinced the current porting system hurt the population.

I already proved its my new beard as the cause, it has nothing to do with temperate weather returning, new games launching, natural entropy & boredom setting in, launch hype gone, none of that nonsense. It's the beard, and it is magnificent and it isn't going anywhere, so get used to the ghost towns! Pay no attention to the 2k+ players everynight, those are clearly russian bots, muahauahauahuahahaaa
Wed 27 Mar 2019 12:20 AM by defiasbandit
Armsmancer wrote:
Wed 27 Mar 2019 12:02 AM
defiasbandit wrote:
Tue 26 Mar 2019 8:32 PM
I am convinced the current porting system hurt the population.

I already proved its my new beard as the cause, it has nothing to do with temperate weather returning, new games launching, natural entropy & boredom setting in, launch hype gone, none of that nonsense. It's the beard, and it is magnificent and it isn't going anywhere, so get used to the ghost towns! Pay no attention to the 2k+ players everynight, those are clearly russian bots, muahauahauahuahahaaa

It's obviously a lot of things Rydia, but you can't ignore the controversy of the porting. Porting is fine, but it could have been implemented much better.
Wed 27 Mar 2019 12:26 AM by Quik
defiasbandit wrote:
Wed 27 Mar 2019 12:20 AM
Armsmancer wrote:
Wed 27 Mar 2019 12:02 AM
defiasbandit wrote:
Tue 26 Mar 2019 8:32 PM
I am convinced the current porting system hurt the population.

I already proved its my new beard as the cause, it has nothing to do with temperate weather returning, new games launching, natural entropy & boredom setting in, launch hype gone, none of that nonsense. It's the beard, and it is magnificent and it isn't going anywhere, so get used to the ghost towns! Pay no attention to the 2k+ players everynight, those are clearly russian bots, muahauahauahuahahaaa

It's obviously a lot of things Rydia, but you can't ignore the controversy of the porting. Porting is fine, but it could have been implemented much better.

Remember they did a poll, and a majority, although a slight majority it was still a majority, wanted NO porting.

They kept it in the game anyway so I'm not sure why they even did the poll if they were going to ignore it.

I do know my guild and the people I grouped with did not want porting of any kind. I firmly believe the porting is a huge reason people are leaving, but I also think it is RvR in general. I don't think it is the tasks as much as it is the dev's trying to please too many people at once and basically alienating more.
Wed 27 Mar 2019 12:26 AM by Armsmancer
defiasbandit wrote:
Wed 27 Mar 2019 12:20 AM
Armsmancer wrote:
Wed 27 Mar 2019 12:02 AM
defiasbandit wrote:
Tue 26 Mar 2019 8:32 PM
I am convinced the current porting system hurt the population.

I already proved its my new beard as the cause, it has nothing to do with temperate weather returning, new games launching, natural entropy & boredom setting in, launch hype gone, none of that nonsense. It's the beard, and it is magnificent and it isn't going anywhere, so get used to the ghost towns! Pay no attention to the 2k+ players everynight, those are clearly russian bots, muahauahauahuahahaaa

It's obviously a lot of things Rydia, but you can't ignore the controversy of the porting. Porting is fine, but it could have been implemented much better.

Nope just the beard. I confidently say this because I am providing as much evidence as everyone else and we stand on equal footing.

I just ordered some beard oil so prepare for a bigger population dip when amazon prime delivers it in 2 days.

This server's days are numbered.
Wed 27 Mar 2019 1:33 AM by phixion
My opinions... (meaning, I don't care if you think they are invalid, they still exist from my point of view).

Porting
Most old school players didn't like it, more casual players loved it. I hated it because it took away routes in which stealthers traditionally camped. We now have very few places left to go that gives us the opportunity to jump players who are on their own. People won't understand this unless they play a stealther, but I think everyone I've spoken to about it (that actually play a stealther) has said their chance of finding someone to jump as diminished massively. We are pushed closer to the PK to get away from the zergs at the milegates, and a large portion of our kills reward 0 RPs because of this.

Zerging
Fun for some, boring for others. I believe zerging was encouraged and actively promoted here. I said from the start, once the new players (who tend to zerg) get bored of zerging they will quit--it seems like that time is coming. Which IMO is a good thing.

Class Imbalance
Playing a class that seems to have been left behind, or pushed aside can easily push people to just give up. I know a few friends who gave up on Hunters and Shadowblades because they were so gimped compared to their counterpart. Sure, they can switch realm and reroll, but nothing is going to replace the time and effort spent kitting out their characters.

Melee system
Heard it from a million different people at this point and experienced it myself many times; misses and evades feel so broken. I understand there was a change recently to this, so I'm hoping for the best. But when you witness 6/8 evades on numerous occasions with a 10% evade rate, you know something is wrong. I would call this GIMPMODE, it's as if your character has a brain fart and just can't hit anything. This alone has caused some major rage moments amongst my friends.

Feathers
To maintain on this server, you need an ungodly amount of feathers. Not only to make pots, but to sell them to maintain charges too--which is insanely expensive. I understand the reasoning behind the Feather system, but I feel as though I'll forever be running TG just to be able to RvR.

Hib Amnesa
Yeah, I'm sounding like a broken record, but I don't care. This ability ruins the game for a lot of people, there are people who don't play visibles because of it. I tried for a few days and got sick to death of it so shelved my visible. This issue has been left to fester for 3 months without a decision.

Old Frontiers
Choke points galore and too many people for the zone size. Hibs and their amnesia have a field day here picking every battle they want and running from those they don't.

These are MY disappointments with the server, the rest is great. But I can easily see how these "minor" issues could cause someone to give up playing and find something else to do with their time.
Wed 27 Mar 2019 12:53 PM by Amp_Phetamine
Armsmancer wrote:
Wed 27 Mar 2019 12:26 AM
defiasbandit wrote:
Wed 27 Mar 2019 12:20 AM
Armsmancer wrote:
Wed 27 Mar 2019 12:02 AM
I already proved its my new beard as the cause, it has nothing to do with temperate weather returning, new games launching, natural entropy & boredom setting in, launch hype gone, none of that nonsense. It's the beard, and it is magnificent and it isn't going anywhere, so get used to the ghost towns! Pay no attention to the 2k+ players everynight, those are clearly russian bots, muahauahauahuahahaaa

It's obviously a lot of things Rydia, but you can't ignore the controversy of the porting. Porting is fine, but it could have been implemented much better.

Nope just the beard. I confidently say this because I am providing as much evidence as everyone else and we stand on equal footing.

I just ordered some beard oil so prepare for a bigger population dip when amazon prime delivers it in 2 days.

This server's days are numbered.

I came from Live, with a continually active population of 300-350 during prime time. I think I can manage with 2,000+ daily...
Wed 27 Mar 2019 1:01 PM by Armsmancer
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Wed 27 Mar 2019 12:53 PM
I came from Live, with a continually active population of 300-350 during prime time. I think I can manage with 2,000+ daily...

Hey don't be bringing in this type of reason and sense of proportion in here. You must be new here, these forums are for people to opine daily about things they don't understand, to talk about how to manage thousands of people and several staff when they themselves haven't run as much as a lemonade stand or even had a successful game launch in Game Dev Tycoon.

Wed 27 Mar 2019 1:32 PM by Dominus
+1 for excellent use of grammar.
Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:29 PM by dante`afk
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Wed 27 Mar 2019 12:53 PM
I came from Live

Thanks. That explains your attitude/thinking process.
Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:32 PM by Amp_Phetamine
dante`afk wrote:
Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:29 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote:
Wed 27 Mar 2019 12:53 PM
I came from Live

Thanks. That explains your attitude/thinking process.

...and who exactly are you?

At least I have a thought process, you just throw out random #buffme posts with absolutely no reasoning whatsoever.
Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:50 PM by kistfd3s
Let's keep it civil guys, no reason to start flaming each other just because there is a difference of opinion.

State your opinion, do your best to back it up with examples, and always remember the person you're responding to is here because they want whats best for the server, the same way you do. We're all on the same team here.
Wed 27 Mar 2019 3:47 PM by Armsmancer
kistfd3s wrote:
Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:50 PM
Let's keep it civil guys, no reason to start flaming each other just because there is a difference of opinion.

State your opinion, do your best to back it up with examples, and always remember the person you're responding to is here because they want whats best for the server, the same way you do. We're all on the same team here.

Wed 27 Mar 2019 3:54 PM by phixion
kistfd3s wrote:
Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:50 PM
We're all on the same team here.

Nah, you're a dirty alb by the looks of it... I represent Midgard.

Wed 27 Mar 2019 6:31 PM by bigdaddyo
most quality players have quit due to porting and task change. damn shame. just roll it back to how it was with the initial tasks and the server is 99% fixed.
Wed 27 Mar 2019 7:40 PM by Pao
phixion wrote: My opinions... (meaning, I don't care if you think they are invalid, they still exist from my point of view).

Porting
Most old school players didn't like it, more casual players loved it. I hated it because it took away routes in which stealthers traditionally camped. We now have very few places left to go that gives us the opportunity to jump players who are on their own. People won't understand this unless they play a stealther, but I think everyone I've spoken to about it (that actually play a stealther) has said their chance of finding someone to jump as diminished massively. We are pushed closer to the PK to get away from the zergs at the milegates, and a large portion of our kills reward 0 RPs because of this.

Zerging
Fun for some, boring for others. I believe zerging was encouraged and actively promoted here. I said from the start, once the new players (who tend to zerg) get bored of zerging they will quit--it seems like that time is coming. Which IMO is a good thing.

Class Imbalance
Playing a class that seems to have been left behind, or pushed aside can easily push people to just give up. I know a few friends who gave up on Hunters and Shadowblades because they were so gimped compared to their counterpart. Sure, they can switch realm and reroll, but nothing is going to replace the time and effort spent kitting out their characters.

Melee system
Heard it from a million different people at this point and experienced it myself many times; misses and evades feel so broken. I understand there was a change recently to this, so I'm hoping for the best. But when you witness 6/8 evades on numerous occasions with a 10% evade rate, you know something is wrong. I would call this GIMPMODE, it's as if your character has a brain fart and just can't hit anything. This alone has caused some major rage moments amongst my friends.

Feathers
To maintain on this server, you need an ungodly amount of feathers. Not only to make pots, but to sell them to maintain charges too--which is insanely expensive. I understand the reasoning behind the Feather system, but I feel as though I'll forever be running TG just to be able to RvR.

Hib Amnesa
Yeah, I'm sounding like a broken record, but I don't care. This ability ruins the game for a lot of people, there are people who don't play visibles because of it. I tried for a few days and got sick to death of it so shelved my visible. This issue has been left to fester for 3 months without a decision.

Old Frontiers
Choke points galore and too many people for the zone size. Hibs and their amnesia have a field day here picking every battle they want and running from those they don't.

These are MY disappointments with the server, the rest is great. But I can easily see how these "minor" issues could cause someone to give up playing and find something else to do with their time.


To porting
Stealth game is fine you just have to adapt. There is prey everywhere.
Wed 27 Mar 2019 7:53 PM by SaintRon
phixion wrote:
Wed 27 Mar 2019 1:33 AM
My opinions... (meaning, I don't care if you think they are invalid, they still exist from my point of view).

Porting
Most old school players didn't like it, more casual players loved it. I hated it because it took away routes in which stealthers traditionally camped. We now have very few places left to go that gives us the opportunity to jump players who are on their own. People won't understand this unless they play a stealther, but I think everyone I've spoken to about it (that actually play a stealther) has said their chance of finding someone to jump as diminished massively. We are pushed closer to the PK to get away from the zergs at the milegates, and a large portion of our kills reward 0 RPs because of this.

Zerging
Fun for some, boring for others. I believe zerging was encouraged and actively promoted here. I said from the start, once the new players (who tend to zerg) get bored of zerging they will quit--it seems like that time is coming. Which IMO is a good thing.

Class Imbalance
Playing a class that seems to have been left behind, or pushed aside can easily push people to just give up. I know a few friends who gave up on Hunters and Shadowblades because they were so gimped compared to their counterpart. Sure, they can switch realm and reroll, but nothing is going to replace the time and effort spent kitting out their characters.

Melee system
Heard it from a million different people at this point and experienced it myself many times; misses and evades feel so broken. I understand there was a change recently to this, so I'm hoping for the best. But when you witness 6/8 evades on numerous occasions with a 10% evade rate, you know something is wrong. I would call this GIMPMODE, it's as if your character has a brain fart and just can't hit anything. This alone has caused some major rage moments amongst my friends.

Feathers
To maintain on this server, you need an ungodly amount of feathers. Not only to make pots, but to sell them to maintain charges too--which is insanely expensive. I understand the reasoning behind the Feather system, but I feel as though I'll forever be running TG just to be able to RvR.

Hib Amnesa
Yeah, I'm sounding like a broken record, but I don't care. This ability ruins the game for a lot of people, there are people who don't play visibles because of it. I tried for a few days and got sick to death of it so shelved my visible. This issue has been left to fester for 3 months without a decision.

Old Frontiers
Choke points galore and too many people for the zone size. Hibs and their amnesia have a field day here picking every battle they want and running from those they don't.

These are MY disappointments with the server, the rest is great. But I can easily see how these "minor" issues could cause someone to give up playing and find something else to do with their time.


DAoC was always about zerging. Some people don't like it because it takes away from individual contribution, but this game is literally a massive team game. Once you start thinking the game is just 8 v 8 death match it's not DAoC or rvr.

You might not be like this, but there are a lot of 8 mans that expect everyone else to stay out of "their" fight.

It's just as lame as expecting a 1 v 1.

PS - I think porting out is lame too for the same death match reason.
Wed 27 Mar 2019 8:24 PM by chryso
bigdaddyo wrote:
Wed 27 Mar 2019 6:31 PM
most quality players have quit due to porting and task change. damn shame. just roll it back to how it was with the initial tasks and the server is 99% fixed.

LOL, "quality" players. I suppose you are the judge of who is a "quality" player.
Wed 27 Mar 2019 8:40 PM by Greenangel
SaintRon wrote:
Wed 27 Mar 2019 7:53 PM
phixion wrote:
Wed 27 Mar 2019 1:33 AM
My opinions... (meaning, I don't care if you think they are invalid, they still exist from my point of view).

Porting
Most old school players didn't like it, more casual players loved it. I hated it because it took away routes in which stealthers traditionally camped. We now have very few places left to go that gives us the opportunity to jump players who are on their own. People won't understand this unless they play a stealther, but I think everyone I've spoken to about it (that actually play a stealther) has said their chance of finding someone to jump as diminished massively. We are pushed closer to the PK to get away from the zergs at the milegates, and a large portion of our kills reward 0 RPs because of this.

Zerging
Fun for some, boring for others. I believe zerging was encouraged and actively promoted here. I said from the start, once the new players (who tend to zerg) get bored of zerging they will quit--it seems like that time is coming. Which IMO is a good thing.

Class Imbalance
Playing a class that seems to have been left behind, or pushed aside can easily push people to just give up. I know a few friends who gave up on Hunters and Shadowblades because they were so gimped compared to their counterpart. Sure, they can switch realm and reroll, but nothing is going to replace the time and effort spent kitting out their characters.

Melee system
Heard it from a million different people at this point and experienced it myself many times; misses and evades feel so broken. I understand there was a change recently to this, so I'm hoping for the best. But when you witness 6/8 evades on numerous occasions with a 10% evade rate, you know something is wrong. I would call this GIMPMODE, it's as if your character has a brain fart and just can't hit anything. This alone has caused some major rage moments amongst my friends.

Feathers
To maintain on this server, you need an ungodly amount of feathers. Not only to make pots, but to sell them to maintain charges too--which is insanely expensive. I understand the reasoning behind the Feather system, but I feel as though I'll forever be running TG just to be able to RvR.

Hib Amnesa
Yeah, I'm sounding like a broken record, but I don't care. This ability ruins the game for a lot of people, there are people who don't play visibles because of it. I tried for a few days and got sick to death of it so shelved my visible. This issue has been left to fester for 3 months without a decision.

Old Frontiers
Choke points galore and too many people for the zone size. Hibs and their amnesia have a field day here picking every battle they want and running from those they don't.

These are MY disappointments with the server, the rest is great. But I can easily see how these "minor" issues could cause someone to give up playing and find something else to do with their time.


DAoC was always about zerging. Some people don't like it because it takes away from individual contribution, but this game is literally a massive team game. Once you start thinking the game is just 8 v 8 death match it's not DAoC or rvr.

You might not be like this, but there are a lot of 8 mans that expect everyone else to stay out of "their" fight.

It's just as lame as expecting a 1 v 1.

PS - I think porting out is lame too for the same death match reason.

Daoc is realm vs realm warfare.

People's who want 8v8 or 1v1 are dumb as this is not what game was the or made for.

They can quit leave go play elsewere. There no loss to server.
Thu 28 Mar 2019 1:37 AM by dbeattie71
bigdaddyo wrote:
Wed 27 Mar 2019 6:31 PM
most quality players have quit due to porting and task change. damn shame. just roll it back to how it was with the initial tasks and the server is 99% fixed.

How many is most?
Thu 28 Mar 2019 5:06 AM by Warjon
First, thank you Devs for leaving this thread going. Always hate heavy handedness.

I love the opinions that are tossed out as facts. They speak for everyone!


I see North American time zones with a 1000 players, weeknights until midnight eastern. I see active LFG at all levels. I have not seen that for many many years. So my hopes are not dashed yet!

So to the Devs, be careful. Do not chase the NA and non Uth 1 or 2 players away! Nice seeing them again.

EU players? meh. Do what you wish with them! I only see them on weekends anyway.
Thu 28 Mar 2019 5:33 AM by Sofely
Bring back tasks like they were at start before a bunch of players décided that they weren’t good enough for them and do lobbyied with the staff. Lol.
Thu 28 Mar 2019 3:55 PM by MadDog
XLGrandma wrote:
Mon 18 Mar 2019 4:29 PM
they lost me with the teleport stuff....i'll be keeping an eye out to return when they base the game around taking keeps/relics like its supposed to be, not just a rp farmfest.

I Don't understand how can people quit an amazing game like Daoc for such a small change.

Daoc Community is a majority of 40-50 years old but they are the biggest cry babies that i've ever seen. There is more salt on this forum than WoW forum.

Just because you are 30-40-50 years old doesn't mean you know evertything. Its time to GROW UP and enjoy the server despite the change.

Or dev your own server and gtfo
Fri 29 Mar 2019 1:50 AM by Frieza
go mad dog! Honestly though, i dont think he is spitting the dummy at the change, i think he is upset he likes to play one way and no one else joins him. Thus if he cant get the devs to force people to play his way, then he leaves. aka cry baby.

You cant force people to play the same game the same way you want, ever. Some like to pve, some rvr, and some like to kill greys. if you cant find people to do what you love, then look harder! I love keep sieges!
Sat 30 Mar 2019 3:06 PM by Quik
MadDog wrote:
Thu 28 Mar 2019 3:55 PM
XLGrandma wrote:
Mon 18 Mar 2019 4:29 PM
they lost me with the teleport stuff....i'll be keeping an eye out to return when they base the game around taking keeps/relics like its supposed to be, not just a rp farmfest.

I Don't understand how can people quit an amazing game like Daoc for such a small change.

Daoc Community is a majority of 40-50 years old but they are the biggest cry babies that i've ever seen. There is more salt on this forum than WoW forum.

Just because you are 30-40-50 years old doesn't mean you know evertything. Its time to GROW UP and enjoy the server despite the change.

Or dev your own server and gtfo

Ummm...pretty sure he said he was GTFO because he didn't like the teleport stuff...

Not sure what your point is? He didn't whine or complain in any way. He simply said he was done with DAoC until ports are gone. Where was this salt you are complaining about? And if someone really dislikes a certain aspect of the game and wants to go somewhere else because of that change, where do you have the right to tell him to grow up and deal with it? He has his own computer and his own choice in games, if this DAoC shard isn't to his liking he has every right to go wherever he wants. I love how you seem to think you are the DAoC police though LOL.

I'm in agreement with him BTW, I keep checking back and chatting with friends on the boards, but I am also done until ports are gone.
Sat 30 Mar 2019 3:10 PM by Quik
Frieza wrote:
Fri 29 Mar 2019 1:50 AM
go mad dog! Honestly though, i dont think he is spitting the dummy at the change, i think he is upset he likes to play one way and no one else joins him. Thus if he cant get the devs to force people to play his way, then he leaves. aka cry baby.

You cant force people to play the same game the same way you want, ever. Some like to pve, some rvr, and some like to kill greys. if you cant find people to do what you love, then look harder! I love keep sieges!

Again, where was he trying to force anyone to play his way? Or how was he a crybaby? He simply said he was done until ports are gone.

I haven't played in a month or so now and I won't play any more until ports are gone either. It ruins the game for me and takes away from RvR. Do I expect them to change it because of me? No, I have voiced my opinion and will play other games because this is their server and they have the right to design it however they want, BUT I have the right to choose whatever game I want to play and I will.

If the dev's decide to remove ports I would happily return to the game and play hours every day again, but I don't see it happening so I have moved on and wish everyone here well.
Sat 30 Mar 2019 3:13 PM by waffel
I’m curious to see the population chart after this weekend. Feels like more and more are getting burned out.
Sat 30 Mar 2019 3:19 PM by Ashman
sidi/tg/galla gets old
Sat 30 Mar 2019 3:23 PM by Quik
waffel wrote:
Sat 30 Mar 2019 3:13 PM
I’m curious to see the population chart after this weekend. Feels like more and more are getting burned out.

For me it isn't being burned out, it is the ports in the game killing it for me. I love the server and 99% of what the dev's have done, but port's are just a prelude to dev's adding speed to all toons down the road and I just don't want to be there when it happens and it takes away from RvR for me.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 1:54 AM by dbeattie71
MadDog wrote:
Thu 28 Mar 2019 3:55 PM
XLGrandma wrote:
Mon 18 Mar 2019 4:29 PM
they lost me with the teleport stuff....i'll be keeping an eye out to return when they base the game around taking keeps/relics like its supposed to be, not just a rp farmfest.

I Don't understand how can people quit an amazing game like Daoc for such a small change.

Daoc Community is a majority of 40-50 years old but they are the biggest cry babies that i've ever seen. There is more salt on this forum than WoW forum.

Just because you are 30-40-50 years old doesn't mean you know evertything. Its time to GROW UP and enjoy the server despite the change.

Or dev your own server and gtfo

Yep.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 1:56 AM by dbeattie71
waffel wrote:
Sat 30 Mar 2019 3:13 PM
I’m curious to see the population chart after this weekend. Feels like more and more are getting burned out.

Hopefully a few Mids get burned out lol.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 8:13 AM by Snoogy
I was playing Phoenix so hard with any minute of free time for a month, haven't touched it in a week+. Abruptly lost interest.. I guess the endgame RvR was too zergy and the task that made one zone the hotspot and the teleporting that I had issue with finally led me to more or less stop playing. Started to feel like a gimmicky freeshard..may pop in again on my ranger and check things out. At least now I don't spend time arguing with people on the forum about how a good amount of players hate the Zerg V Zerg only availability of RvR and just stopped subjecting myself to it 😂 was fun for awhile
Sun 31 Mar 2019 8:17 AM by Snoogy
Lol scrolling through this post seeing the same "stop crying cause people don't want to play your way" crap has made me happy I stopped playing whatevs
Sun 31 Mar 2019 8:25 PM by Andryah
Snoogy wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 8:13 AM
I was playing Phoenix so hard with any minute of free time for a month, haven't touched it in a week+. Abruptly lost interest.. I guess the endgame RvR was too zergy and the task that made one zone the hotspot and the teleporting that I had issue with finally led me to more or less stop playing. Started to feel like a gimmicky freeshard..may pop in again on my ranger and check things out. At least now I don't spend time arguing with people on the forum about how a good amount of players hate the Zerg V Zerg only availability of RvR and just stopped subjecting myself to it 😂 was fun for awhile

To quote you as a reference point for my perspective.......this illustrates a common problem with MMOs, or any online game these days.... people over play it to the point of premature burnout. Your first sentence pretty well says it all... "I was playing Phoenix so hard with any minute of free time for a month, haven't touched it in a week+. Abruptly lost interest"

While it may have been the zergy nature of RvR or the task system changes that you zeroed in on as your "reason" to stop playing, in reality.. when you play something so intensely as you admit you did.. you set yourself up to be triggered by something, anything really, as a cause to stop playing. In reality I think you simply went into an early burnout. This is not a knock on you personally, it is actually common with MMO game players these days.. any MMO really.

More specifically to your comments about the "zergy" nature of RvR... this has really always been an issue for some players where DAOC is concerned. As populations dwindled over time on the paid servers.... there was less zerg and more 8v8 or small group RvR for sure.. but this was an artifact of population decline coupled with the change to NF on the paid servers more than anything else. The reality is, over the long haul... more DAOC players enjoyed the unpredictability of the zerg approach to RvR then any other RvR derivative. For whatever reason... DAOC seems to thrive best in RvR when it is zerg driven. As a long time player of DAOC off and on over the years... 8 man premades and their dominance over time did more to turn players off of RvR then any other variation of game play since the game launched.

As for the task system and it's continuing evolution.. I really think players need to be more patient as the admins make adjustments to the game over time. Keep in mind this server has only been live for a few months.. and so far.. most of the adjustments made by the admins appear to have been for the better overall (though certainly not liked by 100% of players... because that is an impossibility in MMOs). I see the tension in discussions between zerg, small group, solo stealthers, etc that has always existed where DAOC RvR has been concerned. The tension will not go away no matter what the admins do or do not do, precisely because different players play different ways and have different preferences. From a stealthers perspective, there is valid concern about losing familiar choke points to ambush solo travelers due to the porting system.. but honestly I have heard this same complaint in one form or another for many years in DAOC. Stealthers, like very other class, simply need to adapt and be more creative rather then fixating on some easy ambush camp spots. And I say this as a person who has played a stealther for years and plan to do so again on Phoenix. Personally, I see stealthers thriving as 8 man stealth groups on this server, and at that scale they can in fact inflict a lot of damage, chaos, and disruption in RvR.

As to the topic at hand (player populations) as I write this post, there are nearly 3000 players online and there are roughly balanced between the three realms (+/- 5%). Of course that does not show the splits and numbers in RvR as it is a server wide metric, but my point remains... the server appears to continue stable in the 3000 range during the times of day and week when both EU and NA players are active in game.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 8:40 PM by Snoogy
You're actually totally right. It was a total burn out, and the final push to take a break was the redundant nature of RvR.. Half zergy and half overplaying being the reason for a break. Probably will come back soon and enjoy it after a hiatus.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 8:43 PM by Andryah
Snoogy wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 8:17 AM
Lol scrolling through this post seeing the same "stop crying cause people don't want to play your way" crap has made me happy I stopped playing whatevs

I honestly think you are calling out the wrong issue here. DAOC has ALWAYS been about diversity of play style and approach in RvR for a majority of players. And different play style preferences has in my memory always caused tension in discussions between players since DAOC launched nearly 20 years ago.

Given the many years DAOC has run, how it has evolved, and how players have kind of entrenched over time into a preferred play style, it is both 1) normal for said players to long for everyone to play the style they prefer and 2) other players to remind them that play style is not universal across the playerbase, and never will be.

What I admire though is the thoughtfullness of the administrators of Phoenix in terms of gathering feedback from the player base (of which they are also players) and observing and adjusting mechanics of play on the server at a pace much faster and more incremental then has been traditionally done on the live servers. They make adjustments to address valid issues (admittedly not always they way every player wants of course) and they continue to adjust on a regular basis. It shows that they care about the server, the game, and the player base as a whole, and that means a lot more to me as a player then seeing any one player preference becoming dominant among players. I expect the game will play quit differently a year from now then today as they continue to make adjustments. Overall, I appreciate that they have done a lot to remove what were actually deliberate tedious things in the different versions of the game that Mythic (et al) have done over the years.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 8:50 PM by Andryah
Snoogy wrote:
Sun 31 Mar 2019 8:40 PM
You're actually totally right. It was a total burn out, and the final push to take a break was the redundant nature of RvR.. Half zergy and half overplaying being the reason for a break. Probably will come back soon and enjoy it after a hiatus.

Personally, I am a firm believer in taking a break when burnout emerges. It's a healthy thing to do. So I acknowledge and appreciate your self-appraisal and outlook.

The really nice thing is... after a break, you can come back at any time and jump right back in again.

Personally, I have so many things on my list to do on Phoenix it will take me months to complete them all, mainly because I have a self imposed limit of 2 hours a day, so that I do not reach a point where I feel like it's a job, or I become susceptible to personal frustrations because something in game is not to my personal liking or preference. It also inoculates me from sitting on pins and needles waiting for changes by the admins, or sitting on my thumbs because I am bored or disappointed about something.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:11 AM by Frieza
i know exp is already super easy, but i really do recommend you bring back PLing now,

The population is diving in your levels 1-49, so its actually quuite hard to find groups in that space on all sides, sometimes easy and sometimes impossible.

If you allow PLing this removes this, and allows people to hit chars they want to play (more population). Yes there will be some left out in the cold, but just keep the group bonuses i.e. rare classes (i.e. stealthers) add a nice group bonus exp.

We need more new entrants to the 50 game in order to keep population, thus the recommendation above. I dont like giving people a easier way to 50 than what i had, but id much prefer 3 people to choose from in my group oppose to 1.

I can see downsides but as Snoog put it, he got burnt out when he got 50 and took a break. This is what we want to avoid. I tried logging a cabbie lvl 30, 2 nights ago, and a pull of 4 yellows and 1 oj got me like .1-.2.....and thats just too slow for me to put in the effort right now considering other life commitments. (yes i respect everyone is different in this regard).
Mon 1 Apr 2019 2:52 AM by Sofely
3000 players yesterday hehe.

This is incredible to see people that have stop keep posting on those forums and wanting to demotivate people because : « I m not OK with how Phœnix became so, as i am an asshole, i want everybody to go in my way »

Pathetic.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 5:17 AM by Sepplord
Frieza wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:11 AM
I can see downsides but as Snoog put it, he got burnt out when he got 50 and took a break. This is what we want to avoid. I tried logging a cabbie lvl 30, 2 nights ago, and a pull of 4 yellows and 1 oj got me like .1-.2.....and thats just too slow for me to put in the effort right now considering other life commitments. (yes i respect everyone is different in this regard).

i understand where you are coming from (although i disagree...when a hunter can level to 40 solo in 10-12hours then levelling is fast) but what you are ignoring in your cabbie example is that those 5mobs not only gave you 0.1-0.2bubbs, they gave you the same in Eggs on top. They also counted as 5/15 to AT LEAST one task, potentially up to 4tasks, and also have the potential to drop 1-2XP items.
Including all those factors, killing those 5mobs amounts to about 0.6-0.7bubbs plusminus, it'S just that you only see the 0.2 instantly and get the other rewards staggered
Mon 1 Apr 2019 5:46 AM by Amorphium
and too much powerleveling and/or any variation of /level will kill the game for newcomers, just a bad idea overall
Mon 1 Apr 2019 12:17 PM by chryso
Frieza wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:11 AM
i know exp is already super easy, but i really do recommend you bring back PLing now,

The population is diving in your levels 1-49, so its actually quuite hard to find groups in that space on all sides, sometimes easy and sometimes impossible.

This is a terrible idea. Your "solution" to bring back power leveling will just make finding a group even harder.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:59 PM by SaintRon
Frieza wrote:
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:11 AM
i know exp is already super easy, but i really do recommend you bring back PLing now,

The population is diving in your levels 1-49, so its actually quuite hard to find groups in that space on all sides, sometimes easy and sometimes impossible.

If you allow PLing this removes this, and allows people to hit chars they want to play (more population). Yes there will be some left out in the cold, but just keep the group bonuses i.e. rare classes (i.e. stealthers) add a nice group bonus exp.

We need more new entrants to the 50 game in order to keep population, thus the recommendation above. I dont like giving people a easier way to 50 than what i had, but id much prefer 3 people to choose from in my group oppose to 1.

I can see downsides but as Snoog put it, he got burnt out when he got 50 and took a break. This is what we want to avoid. I tried logging a cabbie lvl 30, 2 nights ago, and a pull of 4 yellows and 1 oj got me like .1-.2.....and thats just too slow for me to put in the effort right now considering other life commitments. (yes i respect everyone is different in this regard).

You're not supposed to just grind mobs to xp. Do kill tasks, turn in eggs and do personal tasks. Hell last night some Hibs camped the soil turn in. So I just went there every 15 to get gibbed for task credit.
Mon 8 Apr 2019 3:07 AM by Frieza
some great responses, and yes i do believe my suggestion will kill your lvling for 1-49 in groups of people of the same level.

however you all replied and said "yeah but you get eggs and task credit", therefore you all must be soloing already for the eggs to count right? Not only that but probably soloing for the items too so you get 100% of them? Therefore if that IS faster than a PL, i would imagine people would keep doing that to some degree?

Therefore PLing would/ should only help the people who are time poor/ lazy. Which lets face it guys, if you're time poor and you cant see any achievement, you'll find another game, right?

I understand its a delicate balance and we dont want to ruin any core mechanics currently (and yes i worry my suggestion will do that too), however i just think when we drop from 3-4k to 1.5k, theres something that were not addressing potentially (or maybe this can be considered as normal), and personally, i feel thats getting another 50 (as it does take a bit of time - not too long, but its an effort).
Mon 8 Apr 2019 5:30 AM by Druth
People said the server would tank after 1-2 months.
It's like that doomsday religious cult (not gonna name it...), the end of the world just keeeps getting postponed, and eventually they will be correct.

Looking at the stats, the server has been far better at keeping it's player pop than Uthgard were. So they must be doing something right!
Mon 8 Apr 2019 7:44 AM by Ceen
Druth wrote:
Mon 8 Apr 2019 5:30 AM
People said the server would tank after 1-2 months.
It's like that doomsday religious cult (not gonna name it...), the end of the world just keeeps getting postponed, and eventually they will be correct.

Looking at the stats, the server has been far better at keeping it's player pop than Uthgard were. So they must be doing something right!
Not saying they dont do things right but 2/3 month is a short time period and Uthgard went from 4k to 2.5k, while phoenix went from 4k to 2.9k.
There will always be a decay but the question is at which number it will settle
Yesterday prime time in emain it felt like 10k players though ^^
Mon 8 Apr 2019 10:03 PM by Armsmancer
Ask 10 people here what is a good population number in a denomination of 100 and you'll get 10 different answers.

There's nothing here, just someone saying it rained today and a bunch of people trying to account for why when it was sunny all last week. SOUNDS LIKE ORC MISCHIEF TO ME

We have people complaining about zergs in adjacent threads about low pop counts. Pick one.

There's plenty of conjecture here though. Ask anyone for hard evidence and, well, pack a lunch, nobody has any. Its a Scooby-doo mystery why that is.

Ad hoc ergo propter hoc, ya'll.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL_vHDjG5Wk

Can we please understand this concept and just stop doing it, it is Logic 101 and embarrassing to read some of the lengths gone to and mental gymnastics people do to pin their unfavorite thing on a population drop.
Tue 9 Apr 2019 12:11 AM by Quik
Armsmancer wrote:
Mon 8 Apr 2019 10:03 PM
Ask 10 people here what is a good population number in a denomination of 100 and you'll get 10 different answers.

There's nothing here, just someone saying it rained today and a bunch of people trying to account for why when it was sunny all last week. SOUNDS LIKE ORC MISCHIEF TO ME

We have people complaining about zergs in adjacent threads about low pop counts. Pick one.

There's plenty of conjecture here though. Ask anyone for hard evidence and, well, pack a lunch, nobody has any. Its a Scooby-doo mystery why that is.

Ad hoc ergo propter hoc, ya'll.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL_vHDjG5Wk

Can we please understand this concept and just stop doing it, it is Logic 101 and embarrassing to read some of the lengths gone to and mental gymnastics people do to pin their unfavorite thing on a population drop.

NO!!!!

Sorry the population has dropped a few people just like some people thought it would...

I would rather keep the drama moving though...so...

OMG THE SKY IS FALLING!!!! Server is doomed! Will be only 70 people within months!!!! Am I doing ok so far?
Tue 9 Apr 2019 12:51 AM by relvinian
1. make a temp.
2. level to 50.
3. pvp to rr 6-7
4. make an alt.
5. rinse repeat.
6. login and have fun.

Step 6 doesn't take all day so you just login when you want, meet ur friends, etc.

1 and 2 should be switched unless ur rich.
Tue 9 Apr 2019 8:32 AM by lurker
Druth wrote:
Mon 8 Apr 2019 5:30 AM
Looking at the stats, the server has been far better at keeping it's player pop than Uthgard were. So they must be doing something right!

To be fair, that's not quite true... Obviously there are some differences, but largely the player loss has been quite similar (see image below Jan-April adjusted for the different starting dates for both servers).

Don't take this negatively however. I was slated for saying this previously on the forum, but player loss at the outset of a server is bound to happen.

The key question is how many can the server retain long term?

Personally I think phoenix will retain quite a few players and hopefully we won't see a continued decline like we did on uthgard.. Certainly they are listening to player concerns and making adjustments / great on communication / trying new things and actively developing the server. This is where uthgard fell down a bit, they stuck to their guns on 1.65 or bust and it didn't work. Phoenix customisations wont work for everyone and we should not expect them to.

Now the question remains, can the phoenix approach do any better long term... personally, I think it will. Anecdotally, it seems there is less winging here, but we all know the forum population is not representative of the 'casual player' who make up the bulk of these numbers. So only time will tell.

But I still expect to see the player numbers drop.

I would love to see some internal and accurate numbers from the devs rather than relying on concurrent counts which are inherently misleading, but i understand why they wouldn't want to do this / don't have the time.

Tue 9 Apr 2019 3:33 PM by kmark101
It's amazing that after 18 years or so people are still don't understand this...

Population in DAOC drops because when the PvE progression stops (when a character is templated) most of the population loses interest. The RvR dynamic is not too interesting and very tiresome to even start (running around in zones looking for fights, sometimes for 20 minutes without seeing anyone, sometimes zerged in 10 seconds) and most of the playerbase just does not bother with the hassle to form up RvR groups, buff, run out, fight, die, rinse and repeat... it's too tiresome and for what? There is no grand scheme goal and progression means little as everyone else progresses so your character is not getting stronger compared to the rest. Because of this, players of DAOC are - and always been - PvE centric and they start to quit at the moment when PvE progression stops (new instance is not progression, you can't have better or different gear, etc..). That's how every server since launch of this game been, be it official or freeshard, it's surprising that people still don't understand it.

How to fix it? Make a meaningful RvR endgame so PvE players might have a reason to stay. Mythic fixed this issue with Warhammer Online (which had other problems, but RvR endgame was not one of them). Population will be much more stable then (and only true hardcore PvE-ers will quit eventually). Another one would be the continous PvE progression through character (gear), but you can't do that without fundamentally change the logic of the game (increase templates, etc..).
Tue 9 Apr 2019 7:36 PM by jhaerik
Yeh mix between OF sucking more than I remember, and all the custom changes being for the worse have pretty much killed my play hours as well.

The task system is terrible. The feather system is terrible. The new instance is terrible. Mixing OF with semi-new RA's feels terrible as well.

It's still better than current live... but mainly cause it's free.
Tue 9 Apr 2019 7:40 PM by jhaerik
Quik wrote:
Tue 9 Apr 2019 12:11 AM
Armsmancer wrote:
Mon 8 Apr 2019 10:03 PM
Ask 10 people here what is a good population number in a denomination of 100 and you'll get 10 different answers.

There's nothing here, just someone saying it rained today and a bunch of people trying to account for why when it was sunny all last week. SOUNDS LIKE ORC MISCHIEF TO ME

We have people complaining about zergs in adjacent threads about low pop counts. Pick one.

There's plenty of conjecture here though. Ask anyone for hard evidence and, well, pack a lunch, nobody has any. Its a Scooby-doo mystery why that is.

Ad hoc ergo propter hoc, ya'll.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL_vHDjG5Wk

Can we please understand this concept and just stop doing it, it is Logic 101 and embarrassing to read some of the lengths gone to and mental gymnastics people do to pin their unfavorite thing on a population drop.

NO!!!!

Sorry the population has dropped a few people just like some people thought it would...

I would rather keep the drama moving though...so...

OMG THE SKY IS FALLING!!!! Server is doomed! Will be only 70 people within months!!!! Am I doing ok so far?

Well I called it on Uthgard back in beta testing.

And I called it here too.
Tue 9 Apr 2019 11:17 PM by Armsmancer
jhaerik wrote:
Tue 9 Apr 2019 7:40 PM
Quik wrote:
Tue 9 Apr 2019 12:11 AM
Armsmancer wrote:
Mon 8 Apr 2019 10:03 PM
Ask 10 people here what is a good population number in a denomination of 100 and you'll get 10 different answers.

There's nothing here, just someone saying it rained today and a bunch of people trying to account for why when it was sunny all last week. SOUNDS LIKE ORC MISCHIEF TO ME

We have people complaining about zergs in adjacent threads about low pop counts. Pick one.

There's plenty of conjecture here though. Ask anyone for hard evidence and, well, pack a lunch, nobody has any. Its a Scooby-doo mystery why that is.

Ad hoc ergo propter hoc, ya'll.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL_vHDjG5Wk

Can we please understand this concept and just stop doing it, it is Logic 101 and embarrassing to read some of the lengths gone to and mental gymnastics people do to pin their unfavorite thing on a population drop.

NO!!!!

Sorry the population has dropped a few people just like some people thought it would...

I would rather keep the drama moving though...so...

OMG THE SKY IS FALLING!!!! Server is doomed! Will be only 70 people within months!!!! Am I doing ok so far?

Well I called it on Uthgard back in beta testing.

And I called it here too.

Behold, the Nostradumas of our time. He can predict that boredom increases over time.

BEHOLD

BOW YA SHITS
Wed 10 Apr 2019 12:25 AM by BisbyHoughton
Calling it now, I will die at some point in my life.
Wed 10 Apr 2019 12:46 AM by dbeattie71
This plane that flew over my house landed, totally called it.
Wed 10 Apr 2019 2:12 AM by relvinian
"On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero." Chuck Palahniuk
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