Debate these 2 archers - Phoenix Freeshard

I know they are in a bad spot at low RR, but the nostalgia is too strong on those 2 classes.
What is best?

Ranger (35 ST/ BL 34 / CD 50 / Bow 27 / Path 18)
High dual melee dmg
Good styles and growth rate
Low stat buffs
Low stealth MOS 6
Low archery

VS

Hunter (40 ST / 44 SP / 28 Bow / BC 40) or any other spec, he is more flexible. (OR 35 ST / 50 SP / 34 Bow / BC 32)
HIgh 2h Dmg
Ok style (Back stun mostly)
Good dex spec buff
Medium Stealth MOS 7
Low archery (to medium)

- Is the Hunter can dish out similar Damage with the spear?
- Does MOS 7 and higher makes a huge impact?
- Does the spec dex (63 vs potions for 39 value will have an impact or should I just stay with 32 BC?)
- Is sword worth it? (Slow 2h Sword vs Slow Spear)?
- Ranger seems to have the armor resist advantage, while hunter is weak to slash, is that a concern?
- More inputs?

Thanks in advance

Wed 4 Mar 2020 4:38 AM by The Skies Asunder

I haven't played as a Hunter on Phoenix, but it seems to me that generally Rangers are in a better place. The armor resists, damage add, shadow walker's blade debuff, and 30% ASR style all definitely help. I would suggest going to 39 blades on Ranger to make sure you get the ASR. Most Rangers trying to melee are speccing really high into PF for the DA, and better buffs as well.

Wed 4 Mar 2020 4:54 AM by Spiegal

hmm I guess the 39 BL is easier to land than the 50 CD.

Care to share a good Ranger spec?

Thanks

Wed 4 Mar 2020 1:07 PM by gromet12

Archers issues are about being basically defenseless, evade 3 is all you have, PD was the archer's once tool to stand a chance.

Wed 4 Mar 2020 3:24 PM by ptitbiscuit

As playing a hunter , u want absolutely the 35achery as u get rapide fire which is real useful to pull or rupt casters , also sword is from my experience good at pretty high rr like 7+ because its where you get good ras to do dammage and you want 2swords , 1 slowest you can find , and one quickest with a haste proc so you can swap when it procs. Spear is also a real good weapon but you will need 2 different spears as alb and hib have different kind of resists to slash and thrust , for a low rr hunter i would spec spear and koby race because spear dmg is based on dext/quick . Also you want the 43bs in my opinion because you want the yellow dextqui buff and red af . As ra you can go moa then to make it like its red buffs which will also increase your pots effectiveness . I think its sums up pretty well your different kind of playstyles you can have as hunter , if you have any other question can pm me on disc Spikeupyourbum and i ll gladly try to help you if i can🙂

Wed 4 Mar 2020 3:54 PM by Spiegal

Archers issues are about being basically defenseless, evade 3 is all you have, PD was the archer's once tool to stand a chance.

Hmm I don't get why archers haven't but casters do. Especially with the state of archery.

Wed 4 Mar 2020 4:28 PM by Horus

Blade melee rangers weren't bad before the dmg type vs armor nerf.
Now, not so sure.
Why not just go NS if you want to melee? The ability to easy weapons swap and apply tons of poisons? Vanish? ...And The NS DDs are just a effective as the weak sauce bow dmg here on Phoenix for the targets you'd be fighting.

Wed 4 Mar 2020 4:44 PM by gromet12

ptitbiscuit wrote: ↑
Wed 4 Mar 2020 3:24 PM
As playing a hunter , u want absolutely the 35achery as u get rapide fire which is real useful to pull or rupt casters , also sword is from my experience good at pretty high rr like 7+ because its where you get good ras to do dammage and you want 2swords , 1 slowest you can find , and one quickest with a haste proc so you can swap when it procs. Spear is also a real good weapon but you will need 2 different spears as alb and hib have different kind of resists to slash and thrust , for a low rr hunter i would spec spear and koby race because spear dmg is based on dext/quick . Also you want the 43bs in my opinion because you want the yellow dextqui buff and red af . As ra you can go moa then to make it like its red buffs which will also increase your pots effectiveness . I think its sums up pretty well your different kind of playstyles you can have as hunter , if you have any other question can pm me on disc Spikeupyourbum and i ll gladly try to help you if i can🙂

Spear is Str/Dex

So a Norse 70str/50dex will have the same combined stats as a Kobby for Spear (50str/70dex) and the Valkyn (65str/55dex) with the dwarf coming in last: the quickness and constitution will be different between them. But you have to make the choice between 70 con w/ the Norse vs 50 for the Kobby OR 50con w/ the Kobby vs 50 for the Norse, 45 for the Valk (I think its the lowest).

Since the game is really about staying alive and trying to outlast your target...The Dorf makes alot sense. It doesnt have the stats going for it other than constitution, but seriously your dmg sucks no matter what, and you want to stay alive to try to live through viper lifebanes.

60 dmg stat (norse/kobby/valk) vs dwarf of 55 isn't so bad, the Dorf gets 80con (which isn't a rising stat for hunters) and the quick is lower. Depending on your spec this doesn't matter tbh, you want 250quick and it's not impossible here (50+10=60+23=83+75=158+93spec=251 if you go 50 BC)

Sword is 100% str and you can figure it out from there

Fri 6 Mar 2020 1:31 AM by pollojack

Ranger and Hunter are not in a bad spot at RR3 I have solod sins RR4-9. Purge 2, IP2-3. They also have access to MoArcane which is useful at higher RRs.

For both I wouldn't consider bow a priority nor 35 bow a necessity. Carry two bows, switch to the faster one when you need to rupt. Solo casters are rare and they typically don't carry DD charges while you should try to get a DD charge into your template to help rupt. Hurrikas quill mid or primal ring of fire/earth hib. Bow dmg is not that strong here with a 1-3% difference 49-52, really not worth going above 49 composite.

Stealth at 35 is fine. Some prefer 40 some 30. The speed difference isn't noticeable.

CD Isn't that impressive dmg wise. 39 Blades is however a must.

Spear should at least be 39, if not 44. Higher the better.

40 in PF or BC is a very good idea, MoArcane becomes very useful too. Your damage in melee, defenses, damage at range, and health are all boosted by MoArcane. Should have Purge 2-3, IP 3-4, MoP 3, Dex 2, Tough 2, before any MoArcane though. Ranger gets a 51 point str buff at 39 PF too which is 12 higher than buff pot, 4 str ~= 1% dmg. The dmg add for ranger is also nice, half the damage of the dmg charge.

Hunter pet is a free ~100 dmg, be sure to have it up as soon as you start the fight.

You will never get through tank/hybrid defenses so be sure to move to their sides.

Hunter three part anytime chain is not worth it, most defenses prevent it from being done. Same with off evade chain. Strongly suggest side slow and the 34 anytime.

Do not go sword on hunter unless you are dumping 44 into sword. Sword/Shield till you evade and use the first part of the chain, then switch 2H and use second part of the chain.

Worst part of hunter is ensuring you are using the right spear. I don't bother with anything but lifedrain proc for hunter, there aren't many good procs for mid and between shield switching and making sure you re using the right dmg vs your opponent it is a lot to juggle.

Feel free to open up with side stun on ranger or back stun on hunter. I think both are equal in 1v1 but hunter has an easier time with rupting thanks to their doggo. If doggo had disease proc hunter would def be OP.

Forgot races. Elf and Dwarf are chosen for the body resistance, good versus sins. I prefer Celt for the increased HP and Str. I currently use Norse but think Dwarf would be fine as well.

Fri 6 Mar 2020 4:52 AM by Forlornhope

pollojack wrote: ↑
Fri 6 Mar 2020 1:31 AM
Ranger and Hunter are not in a bad spot at RR3 I have solod sins RR4-9. Purge 2, IP2-3. They also have access to MoArcane which is useful at higher RRs.

For both I wouldn't consider bow a priority nor 35 bow a necessity. Carry two bows, switch to the faster one when you need to rupt. Solo casters are rare and they typically don't carry DD charges while you should try to get a DD charge into your template to help rupt. Hurrikas quill mid or primal ring of fire/earth hib. Bow dmg is not that strong here with a 1-3% difference 49-52, really not worth going above 49 composite.

Stealth at 35 is fine. Some prefer 40 some 30. The speed difference isn't noticeable.

CD Isn't that impressive dmg wise. 39 Blades is however a must.

Spear should at least be 39, if not 44. Higher the better.

40 in PF or BC is a very good idea, MoArcane becomes very useful too. Your damage in melee, defenses, damage at range, and health are all boosted by MoArcane. Should have Purge 2-3, IP 3-4, MoP 3, Dex 2, Tough 2, before any MoArcane though. Ranger gets a 51 point str buff at 39 PF too which is 12 higher than buff pot, 4 str ~= 1% dmg. The dmg add for ranger is also nice, half the damage of the dmg charge.

Hunter pet is a free ~100 dmg, be sure to have it up as soon as you start the fight.

You will never get through tank/hybrid defenses so be sure to move to their sides.

Hunter three part anytime chain is not worth it, most defenses prevent it from being done. Same with off evade chain. Strongly suggest side slow and the 34 anytime.

Do not go sword on hunter unless you are dumping 44 into sword. Sword/Shield till you evade and use the first part of the chain, then switch 2H and use second part of the chain.

Worst part of hunter is ensuring you are using the right spear. I don't bother with anything but lifedrain proc for hunter, there aren't many good procs for mid and between shield switching and making sure you re using the right dmg vs your opponent it is a lot to juggle.

Feel free to open up with side stun on ranger or back stun on hunter. I think both are equal in 1v1 but hunter has an easier time with rupting thanks to their doggo. If doggo had disease proc hunter would def be OP.

Good post, one thing I have found though on my new hunter who's low rr is that I can regularly get off the evade style and it's follow up in just about every fight. The ASR is easier to pull off if you're having issues hitting the side style on an opponent.

Wed 1 Apr 2020 5:38 PM by Parole

One word.

Scout.

Wed 1 Apr 2020 6:37 PM by thirian24

Do yourself a favor and don't play a leaching ass archer.

Also, don't play alb as a sneak. Otherwise you'll get sucked into the alb stealth Zerg and never learn how to play your class.

Wed 1 Apr 2020 9:28 PM by Expfighter

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Wed 1 Apr 2020 6:37 PM
Do yourself a favor and don't play a leaching ass archer.

Also, don't play alb as a sneak. Otherwise you'll get sucked into the alb stealth Zerg and never learn how to play your class.

says the hib NS stealthzerg leader !

Wed 1 Apr 2020 10:53 PM by Cadebrennus

Horus wrote: ↑
Wed 4 Mar 2020 4:28 PM
Blade melee rangers weren't bad before the dmg type vs armor nerf.
Now, not so sure.
Why not just go NS if you want to melee? The ability to easy weapons swap and apply tons of poisons? Vanish? ...And The NS DDs are just a effective as the weak sauce bow dmg here on Phoenix for the targets you'd be fighting.

Agreed. The only reason I don't play an NS is because they're only Luri/Elf. I just can't go there.

Celt4Life

Thu 2 Apr 2020 11:03 AM by thirian24

Expfighter wrote: ↑
Wed 1 Apr 2020 9:28 PM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Wed 1 Apr 2020 6:37 PM
Do yourself a favor and don't play a leaching ass archer.

Also, don't play alb as a sneak. Otherwise you'll get sucked into the alb stealth Zerg and never learn how to play your class.

says the hib NS stealthzerg leader !

/induct

Thu 2 Apr 2020 11:12 AM by inoeth

i have both ranger and hunter, both melee spec

hunter:
50 spear / 47 pre rr9
42 bc
31 stealth / 35 pre rr9
27 bow
rr9
dwarf

ranger:
44 blades
29 cd
42 pf
13 bow
35 stealth
rr5
shar

both perform really good vs any target, even tanks are doable (except necros, bd, higher rr friars)
i do alot of weapon switching on both, especially on the ranger switching between slow and fast weapons
hunter only needs the fastest weapons you can get (3.9 thrust / 4.3 slash) dont bother with slow spears, you end up with 3s swing time when d/q debuff+asr applied
dont spec sword on hunter, you will do fine vs albs but suck vs hibs, also spear has far better styles (ragnarok is not as good as many ppl always claim)
rapid fire is not really needed, maybe as a ranger but i never missed it.
get d/q debuff weapons/charges and use asr styles

and most important advice: dont listen to cadebrennus