Returning Player: XP item changes were an awful idea

Started 7 Feb 2020
by WeaselSoup
in Tavern
I don't know when, or for what reasoning the XP item system was changed into its current state. I'll briefly explain the before and after.

Before: XP items are random drops from monsters and you can turn in a max of 10 per level/per monster type
After: XP items drop every 2 minutes guaranteed and you can turn in as many as you like at a drastically reduced ratio

In the old system you used to be able to solo level pretty well. You would go to an XP item spawn, solo kill there until you got 10 tokens and then go turn in your tokens + phoenix eggs and that got you most of the way to your level, if not all the way. Now you go there and have to grind a camp for 20 minutes to turn in 10 tokens which gives you... maybe a bubble of XP.

The old system benefitted solo players much more because it was simpler to move between camps each level and it was generally faster to get the items because they weren't shared between the whole group. This system also benefitted new players to the server/realm as it gave them clear places to go to farm to level. Now you have a system that is entirely geared toward the super wealthy existing players who can afford to just buy a ton of the xp items for their alt. It doesn't seem beneficial to the game in any possible way and definitely needs re-thought as the playerbase slowly dwindles and larger barriers of entry to new players become larger and larger problems.
Fri 7 Feb 2020 9:53 PM by Llaw
Now you go there and have to grind a camp for 20 minutes to turn in 10 tokens which gives you... maybe a bubble of XP.


Your commentary [something something, edited by Chevron]
Sat 8 Feb 2020 1:03 AM by Chevron
Let's keep it civil and constructive, please.

@WeaselSoup Make sure you choose XP Items that only just became available for your level. So for example as a level 20 choose one that starts at level 20. Those will net the most XP.
Sat 8 Feb 2020 5:48 PM by WeaselSoup
Chevron wrote:
Sat 8 Feb 2020 1:03 AM
Let's keep it civil and constructive, please.

@WeaselSoup Make sure you choose XP Items that only just became available for your level. So for example as a level 20 choose one that starts at level 20. Those will net the most XP.

That's fine but the way they work is if you try to do that the mobs are red/purple and you cant even solo them. It's a system that should benefit solo players and instead it always benefits players in a group. For reasons like you've just stated.
Sat 8 Feb 2020 6:49 PM by Quik
You know if you just play the game and focus on kill tasks and kill task item turn ins and eggs and snow/branches/earth, you will level really fast.

Xp items are a nice bonus but hardly needed and I recently took a RM from 1-30 in just a couple days not even worrying about xp items.
Sat 8 Feb 2020 9:52 PM by gotwqqd
Quik wrote:
Sat 8 Feb 2020 6:49 PM
You know if you just play the game and focus on kill tasks and kill task item turn ins and eggs and snow/branches/earth, you will level really fast.

Xp items are a nice bonus but hardly needed and I recently took a RM from 1-30 in just a couple days not even worrying about xp items.
It still is inferior to what we had prior
Sat 8 Feb 2020 11:32 PM by WeaselSoup
Quik wrote:
Sat 8 Feb 2020 6:49 PM
You know if you just play the game and focus on kill tasks and kill task item turn ins and eggs and snow/branches/earth, you will level really fast.

Xp items are a nice bonus but hardly needed and I recently took a RM from 1-30 in just a couple days not even worrying about xp items.

I do not mean this in a mean way. Leveling 1-30 in a few days is extremely slow and it just shows how much worse the new system is compared to the old one.
Sun 9 Feb 2020 4:24 PM by stewbeedoo
It is slower and that was the intent of the Devs.

However, the task tokens provide pretty good xp and I found that between my RvR main and farmer chars I get lots of tokens to give to alts I'm levelling.

Overall, I am ok with the change. I was upset at first, but leveling is still pretty fast.
Sun 9 Feb 2020 5:16 PM by Quik
WeaselSoup wrote:
Sat 8 Feb 2020 11:32 PM
Quik wrote:
Sat 8 Feb 2020 6:49 PM
You know if you just play the game and focus on kill tasks and kill task item turn ins and eggs and snow/branches/earth, you will level really fast.

Xp items are a nice bonus but hardly needed and I recently took a RM from 1-30 in just a couple days not even worrying about xp items.

I do not mean this in a mean way. Leveling 1-30 in a few days is extremely slow and it just shows how much worse the new system is compared to the old one.

I said a couple days, not a few and that is the difference of my 2 days to 3+.

I lvled from 1-30 in 2 days only playing a couple hours each day. If taking 4-5 hours to hit 30 is too slow I don't know what to tell you.

The current system is slower than the older one, but not by much when you add in all the ways you can get xp. The problem is (not talking about you on this, but a few others) people literally expect to be autotrained to 50 the minute they log in. Being able to hit max level in less than 24 hours played is not slow, the issue is that people just don't want to even try anymore.
Sun 9 Feb 2020 6:07 PM by Tillbeast
Is there really a need to level? I have got god knows how many levels on characters over several MMO's it just get repetetive. On the old EA live servers they had a monetary gain from you spending time levelling and crafting, a time sink that dug into your monthly subscription. No monthly subscription on pheonix. Maybe they should just do away with levelling as game really only begins at 50 unless you spend time in thidranki. Cannot see it ever happening but levelling is so out of date now even if its easier.
Sun 9 Feb 2020 7:32 PM by Quik
Tillbeast wrote:
Sun 9 Feb 2020 6:07 PM
Is there really a need to level? I have got god knows how many levels on characters over several MMO's it just get repetetive. On the old EA live servers they had a monetary gain from you spending time levelling and crafting, a time sink that dug into your monthly subscription. No monthly subscription on pheonix. Maybe they should just do away with levelling as game really only begins at 50 unless you spend time in thidranki. Cannot see it ever happening but levelling is so out of date now even if its easier.

This is an argument that has gone on for years on free shards. Everyone has their own opinion.

My personal opinion is the server would die rapidly if you had /lvl50 option like people want. There have been multiple free shards with /lvl50 and none of them lasted very long and none are currently around. If you can instantly make a new toon and raise to 50 you never really get attached to that toon and you never get any kind of loyalty. Again, it is just my opinion.

There is literally no way of knowing one way or the other because even if they did switch to a /lvl50 system and the server didn't die, all kinds of reasons would be brought up by the pro /lvl50 crowd, and if it did die all of those people in my court would be screaming how we were right.
Mon 10 Feb 2020 4:00 AM by rocketait
I think the new system has put many new players off, after watching youtubes or reading guides they feel they will be out in rvr in no time. However, it turns out the guides where for the old system and it's just going to take longer. Also yes you can trade task tokens but when you are just starting you don't have a 50 rvr player getting them and not needing them. Also the task tokens/limit on xp items per minute/and in general all the strange bonuses you get (kill a red and get tons less xp because it was a animal not a magical or whater) makes the whole leveling off-putting to a new player (just a flat bonus or zone bonus would be nice over mob type bonus). But then again I use to love leveling, the journey was half the fun, bgs made it interesting and exploring made it different (now I've been everywhere and this seems to be the only bg.. so it's just different)
Mon 10 Feb 2020 2:05 PM by Stoertebecker
Tillbeast wrote:
Sun 9 Feb 2020 6:07 PM
Is there really a need to level? I have got god knows how many levels on characters over several MMO's it just get repetetive. On the old EA live servers they had a monetary gain from you spending time levelling and crafting, a time sink that dug into your monthly subscription. No monthly subscription on pheonix. Maybe they should just do away with levelling as game really only begins at 50 unless you spend time in thidranki. Cannot see it ever happening but levelling is so out of date now even if its easier.

How many Insta lvl 50 shards are there? None
There were a few. How long did they last? Not long
Did they had a high population? Nope

If you wanna play on a well poulated server take it as it is. Uthgard didn`t last that long like Phoenix. Or you play EQ on live...have fun
Tue 11 Feb 2020 12:17 AM by WeaselSoup
This conversation is digressing from what the original post was about. All I am saying is if the changes were supposed to be an improvement. They were not an improvement and i'd like to know why they feel the new system is better. If it was supposed to be a nerf, well then congrats it was nerfed into the ground.
Tue 11 Feb 2020 12:56 AM by Quik
It wasn't nerfed into the ground...

When the server first opened you could hit 50 in a little under 24 hours if you had a good group. That was a common amount of time, although Hib's could be quicker because Ani's were perfect for AoE group setups.

Currently you can STILL hit 50 in around 24 hours with a good group.

The only difference is that solo, before you could use a good farming toon to gather tons of xp items and you could lvl to 50 quick even while solo.

Now it is much harder to get xp items since they are on a 2 min timer, but on the flip side now if you are solo in addition to eggs you can also turn in task tokens as well as soil/branches/earth which adds up along with tasks.

I wish people would stop acting like the current system tripled the time it takes to hit 50 as that is completely false. It added very little time in the grand scheme of things.

In fact, if you are rich you could technically hit 50 faster now if you wanted to buy enough xp items from the market and just turn them all in since the limit was removed. So in reality, leveling CAN be faster now.

I think I read a thread somewhere on her from someone who tested it and said they hit 50 in like 4 hours doing pretty much that while solo.
Tue 11 Feb 2020 5:16 AM by Kampfar
Most ppl crying are ae-farmers, for normal classes that kill mob after mob there is no difference. IT feels even faster because Drops now guaranteed every 2 min
Tue 11 Feb 2020 7:07 AM by gotwqqd
Quik wrote:
Tue 11 Feb 2020 12:56 AM
It wasn't nerfed into the ground...

When the server first opened you could hit 50 in a little under 24 hours if you had a good group. That was a common amount of time, although Hib's could be quicker because Ani's were perfect for AoE group setups.

Currently you can STILL hit 50 in around 24 hours with a good group.

The only difference is that solo, before you could use a good farming toon to gather tons of xp items and you could lvl to 50 quick even while solo.

Now it is much harder to get xp items since they are on a 2 min timer, but on the flip side now if you are solo in addition to eggs you can also turn in task tokens as well as soil/branches/earth which adds up along with tasks.

I wish people would stop acting like the current system tripled the time it takes to hit 50 as that is completely false. It added very little time in the grand scheme of things.

In fact, if you are rich you could technically hit 50 faster now if you wanted to buy enough xp items from the market and just turn them all in since the limit was removed. So in reality, leveling CAN be faster now.

I think I read a thread somewhere on her from someone who tested it and said they hit 50 in like 4 hours doing pretty much that while solo.
Oh
You mean the guy who was banned?
Tue 11 Feb 2020 9:02 AM by Pao
WeaselSoup wrote:
Fri 7 Feb 2020 8:33 PM
I don't know when, or for what reasoning the XP item system was changed into its current state. I'll briefly explain the before and after.

Before: XP items are random drops from monsters and you can turn in a max of 10 per level/per monster type
After: XP items drop every 2 minutes guaranteed and you can turn in as many as you like at a drastically reduced ratio

In the old system you used to be able to solo level pretty well. You would go to an XP item spawn, solo kill there until you got 10 tokens and then go turn in your tokens + phoenix eggs and that got you most of the way to your level, if not all the way. Now you go there and have to grind a camp for 20 minutes to turn in 10 tokens which gives you... maybe a bubble of XP.

The old system benefitted solo players much more because it was simpler to move between camps each level and it was generally faster to get the items because they weren't shared between the whole group. This system also benefitted new players to the server/realm as it gave them clear places to go to farm to level. Now you have a system that is entirely geared toward the super wealthy existing players who can afford to just buy a ton of the xp items for their alt. It doesn't seem beneficial to the game in any possible way and definitely needs re-thought as the playerbase slowly dwindles and larger barriers of entry to new players become larger and larger problems.

Thats not true. The old system was worse for solo player. You only had 10 items to hand in you had to move spot after that to be effective. Now you can farm easy as a solo 30+ items and hand them in together.
Solo kill slow so there is no big difference. with the exp item gain. All who cry are the farmers to sell them on the market.
Tue 11 Feb 2020 9:11 AM by Rbuur
I'm just wondering if that 2 minute counter is a thing or not...

...
Tue 11 Feb 2020 3:00 PM by Horus
I recently solo leveled 2 more toons to 50, a eldritch and a mentalist (post the PVE changes). I understand these are pretty good solo toons.
Even though I had another 50 I didn't use him to twink out or finance. It just isn't necessary here with the ridiculously good drops at every level.

I found it just as fast as pre-changes. The ability to turn in more than 10 exp items per level is actually a good thing. It gives you the option to stay at a particularly good camp and farm where before it really made no sense once you hit your 10 item limit.

My technique (in general) for what it is worth.

Just start killing, working your way through mob camps focusing on hitting ones with exp item drops but also burning through the 15 kill mob types to get the task credit for mob type. When you've exhausted all the "mob type 15 kill" tasks that are convenient, focus on a good camp for your toon to get exp drops. Turn in items, collection tokens, eggs often at early levels...you would will fly through them. I will say if you have a lot of task tokens it might be good to sit on them for 24 hours for the task reset as more get taken with each turn in per task cycle.

As soon as you can (mid teens I think when solo) hit the frontier behind the relic gates. You are safe there for a few levels...plenty of good mob camps there and you get the bonus of tinders and branches. soil, snow. Turn them in often...sure once you are in the open frontier you will have to deal with gankers but who cares...a mild inconvenience....esp at low levels when you can get haste and get back to the camps quickly via keep ports as needed.

In general, just leverage all the exp possibilities, move camps, get that 15 or 31 kill count on mob type. Kill in the frontier, kill in the dungeon, kill in classic. All those task bonuses add up and movement is so easy with hasteners and teleport. As soon as you can leech a few RPs get regen and long wind. I think at 20 you can start using invigoration potions? There ya go, perma sprint w/haste to move around. Don't be afraid to respec. If you have a great camp but the mobs are heat sensitive and you are cold specced, respec to heat and burn through them. Respec back when you are done.

Leveling is quite easy and where it should be IMO.

And if you acquire some cash and at higher levels maybe you hit a time where it just doesn't seem progress is being made as fast as you would like, buy some exp drops from the merch to help get you over the hump. Cash is always easy to come by. You can always group but don't stand around waiting for a group...kill while you are looking.
Wed 12 Feb 2020 11:53 AM by Natashalove94
The worst thing about it, i did a test to see if i could make the same amount of xp while you run and turn in, not only do you make the same amount, in a group turning xp items in is useless now.

If i remember correctly they could give 5 bubbles per turn in if not more, the new guaranteed droprate does not change anything for the better.

I prefer the old way. But once again they made the game harder for newcoming players.

If they keep up with these ridiculous changes i will go back to live.
Wed 12 Feb 2020 12:11 PM by Kampfar
Natashalove94 wrote:
Wed 12 Feb 2020 11:53 AM
But once again they made the game harder for newcoming players.

No.
Just went hib with a fresh start. No Gold or anything transferred. 1st char about 24 hrs till lvl 45 (the point i stop lvling and go RVR ) and 2nd char 16 hours...
Wed 12 Feb 2020 2:43 PM by stewbeedoo
Rbuur wrote:
Tue 11 Feb 2020 9:11 AM
I'm just wondering if that 2 minute counter is a thing or not...

...

I farm XP items as my primary course of plat. Perhaps theoretically the code logic does not specify 1 drop every 2 minutes. But practically speaking it works out to exactly 2 minutes. I use a stopwatch if I am too lazy to salvage/sell rogs and just want the drops.
Wed 12 Feb 2020 5:16 PM by Sepplord
stewbeedoo wrote:
Wed 12 Feb 2020 2:43 PM
Rbuur wrote:
Tue 11 Feb 2020 9:11 AM
I'm just wondering if that 2 minute counter is a thing or not...

...

I farm XP items as my primary course of plat. Perhaps theoretically the code logic does not specify 1 drop every 2 minutes. But practically speaking it works out to exactly 2 minutes. I use a stopwatch if I am too lazy to salvage/sell rogs and just want the drops.

Does that mean you stop 2min time and kill a single mob, collect drop, and wait another 2min? Because if that works then no way can the system work as intended by clock. Should be easy to test but im too lazy.
Otherwise it is just your killspeed coinciding with a droprate of approximately one item per 2min. But then faster killspeed should result in more drops and slower killspeed in less
Wed 12 Feb 2020 8:28 PM by The Skies Asunder
I will have to do some actual testing, clearly anecdotes are not evidence. Though I will say, it SEEMS like there is a time coded in for them. Was recently on Alb pulling stacks of Danoans with a matter cab, and never getting more than one item at a time, regardless of how many I killed at once. I'll make a thread if I get some time to record test data though.
Wed 12 Feb 2020 8:59 PM by Vkejai
If you wait 2min between kills you will get the kill task item. There are probably a few that ain't on the 2min timer tho
Wed 12 Feb 2020 10:09 PM by stewbeedoo
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 12 Feb 2020 5:16 PM
stewbeedoo wrote:
Wed 12 Feb 2020 2:43 PM
Rbuur wrote:
Tue 11 Feb 2020 9:11 AM
I'm just wondering if that 2 minute counter is a thing or not...

...

I farm XP items as my primary course of plat. Perhaps theoretically the code logic does not specify 1 drop every 2 minutes. But practically speaking it works out to exactly 2 minutes. I use a stopwatch if I am too lazy to salvage/sell rogs and just want the drops.

Does that mean you stop 2min time and kill a single mob, collect drop, and wait another 2min? Because if that works then no way can the system work as intended by clock. Should be easy to test but im too lazy.
Otherwise it is just your killspeed coinciding with a droprate of approximately one item per 2min. But then faster killspeed should result in more drops and slower killspeed in less
That is exactly how it works. I can kill as many mobs as I can but will only get the xp item every 2 minutes. Or I can be lazy and just kill 1 mob every 2 minutes.
Wed 12 Feb 2020 10:11 PM by Sepplord
Then i guess you (or anyone else who has actually tested it) should file a bug report with specifics
Thu 13 Feb 2020 3:15 PM by cma1978
Regardless of white knights trying to justify what a terrible system it is. It is basically wasting your time now, i guess that's why most ignore xp items alltogether.
Fri 14 Feb 2020 6:28 AM by amnvex
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 12 Feb 2020 5:16 PM
stewbeedoo wrote:
Wed 12 Feb 2020 2:43 PM
Rbuur wrote:
Tue 11 Feb 2020 9:11 AM
I'm just wondering if that 2 minute counter is a thing or not...

...

I farm XP items as my primary course of plat. Perhaps theoretically the code logic does not specify 1 drop every 2 minutes. But practically speaking it works out to exactly 2 minutes. I use a stopwatch if I am too lazy to salvage/sell rogs and just want the drops.

Does that mean you stop 2min time and kill a single mob, collect drop, and wait another 2min? Because if that works then no way can the system work as intended by clock. Should be easy to test but im too lazy.
Otherwise it is just your killspeed coinciding with a droprate of approximately one item per 2min. But then faster killspeed should result in more drops and slower killspeed in less

I've tested this system on bog frogs. Every 2 minutes that go by, I get a guaranteed drop the next mob after those 2 minutes, so I only really kill ~5-7 mobs every 10 minutes.

If it's not 2 minutes, I don't get a drop, but the moment it crosses over, I do. I don't know how or why, but that's how it works.
Fri 14 Feb 2020 9:40 AM by borodino1812
amnvex wrote:
Fri 14 Feb 2020 6:28 AM
Sepplord wrote:
Wed 12 Feb 2020 5:16 PM
stewbeedoo wrote:
Wed 12 Feb 2020 2:43 PM
I farm XP items as my primary course of plat. Perhaps theoretically the code logic does not specify 1 drop every 2 minutes. But practically speaking it works out to exactly 2 minutes. I use a stopwatch if I am too lazy to salvage/sell rogs and just want the drops.

Does that mean you stop 2min time and kill a single mob, collect drop, and wait another 2min? Because if that works then no way can the system work as intended by clock. Should be easy to test but im too lazy.
Otherwise it is just your killspeed coinciding with a droprate of approximately one item per 2min. But then faster killspeed should result in more drops and slower killspeed in less

I've tested this system on bog frogs. Every 2 minutes that go by, I get a guaranteed drop the next mob after those 2 minutes, so I only really kill ~5-7 mobs every 10 minutes.

If it's not 2 minutes, I don't get a drop, but the moment it crosses over, I do. I don't know how or why, but that's how it works.

I can confirm this is how it works. When I am lazy I alt-tab out for two minutes, then return. Once 2 minutes have passed, you get an item.
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