Whens the next server launch?

Started 21 Sep 2019
by Ownnyn
in Tavern
So i was wondering when/where the next daoc server launch will be?

Now before you jump in there and be internet justice warriors, might atleast finish reading first.

Anyone remember the excitement for Phoenix launch? Remember getting up before the sun....taking vacation time, planning the xp routes, best camps, group comps, etc?

So a few years ago i was locked into heated arguments with Uthgard staff, about the future of the server. Prior to phoenix or origins, i told them point blank the population was dying.....and i knew.....absolutely without a doubt why. Well i must admit now i was wrong.....oh not about the server dying...as we came to find out not only was it on its death bed...last will and testaments were filled and signed.....but funeral arrangements were being made by next of kin.

No i was wrong about the why. My assumptions were that others, like myself, were unhappy with the many facets of the server settings. The xp grind, the slow action, long travel times, terrible class and realm balance. In short, the quality of life sucked.

Now im sure everyone is now asking why i think im wrong now? After all you mighta left for that same reason right? Greener pastures and all?

When i made that perdiction NA pop dropped to under 500. And now, with most of my grievances resolved on Phoenix, were back in the same boat. Population is weak and suffering.

Now i know this is not an EU problem....not yet atleast. And thats of course what was said back then too....but how did that fair for EU Uthgard?

Ive come to realize that perhaps, the best answer isnt specific to the ruleset... that certainly has an impact on the speed of decay, but rather.....people simply get bored, and move on, if only temporarily until something exciting happens.

Take a look at wow, with every expansion....a spike in population, followed by a slow decline.

I find it a bit fortuitous that the staff chose the name Phoenix. A small but interesting fact about the mythical bird....it dies a fiery death...but in its own ashes, is reborn. It dies so that it can comeback anew.

Now im gonna say something controversial. And maybe your first instinct is to shred the idea....to tell everyone how stupid the idea is....but i throw it out there and hooe that you atleast save judgement, till the end, if not atleast give it some thought first.

Ready....

Let it die.

Let the server die....so that like the mythical creature....Phoenix can be reborn in the ashes of its former self.

For lack of a better term, the idea im talking about is generally referred to Seasons. An idea thats been brought up before and generally dismissed. Even i have shrugged the idea off in the past. But the more servers i go through, the more servers that die, the better the idea sounds.

Think about your favorite sports team. At the end of the season, does it take its win record with it? Arnt there new players added, new changes, new stadiums or teams? Isnt each year a new year with new possibilities?

Rememer that excitement at launch? What if you could recreate that every year?

Well how would that look? Well im sure others could pin down the details better than I, but i would suspect that each season has long and short term benefits, bonuses or gifts that carry with you. Heres a few examples

Competing in season 1, will provide life ling bonuses, and short term bonuses that only affect season 2. Like xp, every 50 provides 1% life long bonus, capping at 5% per season, and a 5% bonus, capping at 25%, for following season. So if u had 5+ 50s, youd receive a 5% permanent bonus, and 25% xp bonus for only season 2. You can have similar bonuses for realm points with RR5s, or crafting bonuses for LGMs.

You could have unique titles, or a item reward for each season, like an 80 util ring for participation in season 1.

And the icing? Each season can bring new and unique rulesets. Want to do an FFA? How about old RAs and OF? You can even do new ideas or bat shit crazy ideas because each season allows you to reset it. Try letting all realms access all classes? Try your own versions of heretics or bainshees. Try a server with no realm switch timer. Try one with no way to switch realms.

And whats great about the daoc community is we already have prebuilt seasons in....every winter population is at its peak, while every summer population drops naturally.

Yes i know people not like having chars deleted. The idea was a bit off putting to me too. But i left live to play other games, or other servers. I left Uthgard to play Phoenix. I think at some point i realized that it wasnt the cumulative items i collected that mattered. It wasnt the realm ranks, number of lgm crafters, or even some title i collected that i enjoyed.

The most enjoyment ive had was playing with friends.

The same friends that log in a little less now, log off a bit earlier. The ones that, like me, grow a bit bored with the staleness.

So i ask.

Whens the next server launch?
Sat 21 Sep 2019 3:33 PM by kiectred
For anyone who didn't wanna read it all: the summary is that he had a revelation that populations naturally decline over time (color me shocked) and that he wants seasons. That's it.
Sat 21 Sep 2019 4:23 PM by gotwqqd
Close
No place here for a competitor server question unless it is comparing mechanics
Sat 21 Sep 2019 4:47 PM by Vkejai
There have been so many changes past and planned I dont think Phoenix has actually launched properly yet.
Sat 21 Sep 2019 4:51 PM by Ownnyn
gotwqqd wrote:
Sat 21 Sep 2019 4:23 PM
Close
No place here for a competitor server question unless it is comparing mechanics

Obviously didnt read
Sun 22 Sep 2019 9:52 AM by relvinian
Was kind of a long post. The issue is, say you show up now and u make a new toon. U get to level up and then u start running into RR10 uber temped duos on voice.

To say you have no chance is being generous. The thrill of the launch is everyone is starting with nothing and trying to gain advantage so they can polish their epeens.

I think at some point you need to start telling stories. So that the story becomes more immersive and creates a paradigm which works for the population.

I had a long suggestion on uthgard once about a disaster which destroyed parts of the world and or a world destruction which forced people to flee the world to another world to survive.

Basically this bottle necked the population, which was too small, into a play area which was more appropriate to the actual population.

And it had the potential to tell a story.
Sun 22 Sep 2019 10:56 AM by Frigzy
What about simply capping Realm Rank character progression after launch? RR5 first 3 months then a new RR every 2 months or something. Then you'd be able to reach RR10 after a little over a year since launch.

This would also probably give the server a small population boost every 2 months with the upping of the cap. (And tempering the intial (almost unhealthy) hype rush)

It seems a bit stiff, but there might be something to this I think. Sure it might not entice players to no-life the server at launch as much, but maybe that's not such a bad thing. People often burn themselves out.

I do think there's an issue with high realm rank domination stalemates, especially in the longer term.
Mon 23 Sep 2019 7:55 AM by Sepplord
resets make it harder for the casual mass to ever compete, not easier

there's no way i am beating no-lifers in their initial rushing anywhere, and i rather fight a RR10 with my RR5 than fighting an RR5 with my RR2
at least at the higher RRs their progress is almost halted, and some get bored/switch toons etc...

Seasons cater to the no-lifers while i doubt that they are healthy for the server overall
Mon 23 Sep 2019 8:30 AM by gotwqqd
Sepplord wrote:
Mon 23 Sep 2019 7:55 AM
resets make it harder for the casual mass to ever compete, not easier

there's no way i am beating no-lifers in their initial rushing anywhere, and i rather fight a RR10 with my RR5 than fighting an RR5 with my RR2
at least at the higher RRs their progress is almost halted, and some get bored/switch toons etc...

Seasons cater to the no-lifers while i doubt that they are healthy for the server overall

Not to mention you would never get to experience life as a HIGH(RR8+) toon
Mon 23 Sep 2019 8:45 AM by Nunki
Frigzy wrote:
Sun 22 Sep 2019 10:56 AM
What about simply capping Realm Rank character progression after launch? RR5 first 3 months then a new RR every 2 months or something. Then you'd be able to reach RR10 after a little over a year since launch.

This would also probably give the server a small population boost every 2 months with the upping of the cap. (And tempering the intial (almost unhealthy) hype rush)

It seems a bit stiff, but there might be something to this I think. Sure it might not entice players to no-life the server at launch as much, but maybe that's not such a bad thing. People often burn themselves out.

I do think there's an issue with high realm rank domination stalemates, especially in the longer term.

Limitations usually scare people away, especially hard caps.

I really liked the idea of "scaling up" RP's on low RR's as it seems to be the case for everyone until RR5/6.
Great way to motivate new players and to even out the gap.

What do you think about downscaling and upscaling factors for High/Low-RRs?
Mon 23 Sep 2019 8:55 AM by Sepplord
my problem with the scaling rewards (even if low RR catch up is nice) is that it makes the exponential increase while going through RRs so much steeper...
on top of the natural increase in needed RPs from rank to rank, you also have this diminishing bonus-RPs

not only do you need much more for the next RR, but you are also getting it slower and slower


Overall ofcourse it's still faster but there are minor psychological inconveniences that come with such a bonus
Mon 23 Sep 2019 9:28 AM by Hector
Great post, and spot-on. I think Phoenix has mastered the xp rates and pve content. The problem was the rapidly changing RvR changes beginning in late beta. Feels like we haven’t even launched yet.
Tue 24 Sep 2019 9:42 AM by Caemma
Nice post, i agree in a big part, but a little too much "out of boundaries" for most people that enjoy mmorpgs (which is slowly put up efforts to "permanently" improve their characters).

But, in case it could happen, I would rather redirect the seasons idea towards the end-game content only, both PvE and RvR, and do some of the things you said, keeping the classic feels:

PvE examples:
- You could rotate/introduce new encounters/instances.
- You could swap the epic dungeons between realms (re-assigning the usual drops)
- You could add tons of titles for what you achieve in previous seasons (records & such)

RvR examples:
- You could switch between OF and NF each time
- You could switch the ruleset to PvP and RvR
- You could open a gladiator arena each month
- You could switch the relic bonuses types
- RPs could decay in % based on your partecipation of the prior season, maybe with "check points" to reach.

And I'm sure there could be more ideas...

With that being said, I believe that the main problem with population decay is when you don't get anymore the fun you're looking for, and it happens either beacuse "the game get stale" for you (same boring rvr panorama if you're into rvr, or got all you needed if you're into pve), or in the worse case if you don't find "your game", which means you couldn't find what you were looking for once you arrived to the end-game (i know plenty of people who left cause the rvr is too much zergish and doesn't allow a proper competition or either smallman - hello? put back the arena concept!)

TLDR: If the endgame doesn't provide you the fun you're looking for, you will want to start over again or leave.
Wed 25 Sep 2019 11:12 AM by florin
A re launch would be interesting but the problem isn’t so much the game - yes it’s completely flawed - but the implementation choices and management on this server.

Given that will unlikely change, if there was a relaunch, learn from wow and implement phases.

Phase 1 - 1-50 - 1 month
Phase 2 epic raids - 1 month
Phase 3 - rvr - open up realm ranks capped at rr5
Phase 4 - open up relics
Phase 5 - trash the instances

Controlled release instead of a race to the top that incentivizes taking advantage of every exploit and imbalance not fixed
Wed 25 Sep 2019 11:38 AM by Numatic
Lots of things contribute to server decline. The initial nostalgia wears off and thats the first big drop you see. After that there are many factors. DAoC as a whole is a paltry comparison to depth of more modern MMO's. It's very limited in it's engagement. It's limited in what it can offer. And most people don't like to do the same thing over and over. Besides the couple PvE instance dungeons, thats all there is. RvR. Crafting is a joke comparatively speaking. Theres no major engaging PvE content. And no goal for RvR. Just go out and either run a meta 8man or get rolled as a soloer. Solo play in DAoC is garbage. But in DAoC it always has been. But solo play is something the mass of casual players enjoy. DAoC was always a niche game. It wasn't watered down to make casuals compete equally. But when the casuals leave, eventually the semi hardcore leave. And the only ones left in the end are the 50-100 primetime hardcore daoc players who sit in a burning house and refuse to admit its on fire (go look at uthgard). The players themselves contribute as well. More so than anything. That one CM got reamed for calling players "armchair developers" because they always think they know better than the devs. But it's true. Players constant whining about knowing a better way can ruin a game if the devs listen. I've seen it countless times (but blame the devs for not implementing it right lol). The hardcore players don't realize that their playstyle pushes out the population also. Most of the attitudes of players i have met here on phoenix have been abysmal. None of my toons are even in a guild. The vitriol and entitlement here is some of the worst i've seen in any game.

The fact is, with all the factors adding up, DAoC will never last long with a decent population. Eventually, all servers fade away.
Wed 25 Sep 2019 1:17 PM by Roto23
I made it through the first two paragraphs then decided it would be more interesting to go count the steps in my house.
Wed 25 Sep 2019 3:58 PM by gotwqqd
I’ve never seen so many whining bitches that all think they are the “professional” expert of how the server would be best implemented
Fri 27 Sep 2019 9:52 AM by relvinian
Server would be great if it wasn't for all those stupid players.
Fri 27 Sep 2019 6:21 PM by sugaree
Roto23 wrote:
Wed 25 Sep 2019 1:17 PM
I made it through the first two paragraphs then decided it would be more interesting to go count the steps in my house.

I didn't even get that far but don't leave us hanging man, how many steps!?
Fri 27 Sep 2019 8:44 PM by Ownnyn
Roto23 wrote:
Wed 25 Sep 2019 1:17 PM
I made it through the first two paragraphs then decided it would be more interesting to go count the steps in my house.

You dont have the attention span to read a post, but still find the need to add your irrelevant comments.

Putting that aside, i too am interested......how many steps was it?
Fri 27 Sep 2019 9:20 PM by Caemma
relvinian wrote:
Fri 27 Sep 2019 9:52 AM
Server would be great if it wasn't for all those stupid players.
Woke up grumpy even today heh?

My stairs are made of 78 steps btw.
Fri 27 Sep 2019 10:09 PM by TsunamiSurprise
kiectred wrote:
Sat 21 Sep 2019 3:33 PM
For anyone who didn't wanna read it all: the summary is that he had a revelation that populations naturally decline over time (color me shocked) and that he wants seasons. That's it.

"Let it die," isn't an argument for anything other than a dog that got hit by a car when you're holding a rifle.
Sat 28 Sep 2019 4:14 PM by Chaskha
Frigzy wrote:
Sun 22 Sep 2019 10:56 AM
What about simply capping Realm Rank character progression after launch? RR5 first 3 months then a new RR every 2 months or something. Then you'd be able to reach RR10 after a little over a year since launch.

This would also probably give the server a small population boost every 2 months with the upping of the cap. (And tempering the intial (almost unhealthy) hype rush)

It seems a bit stiff, but there might be something to this I think. Sure it might not entice players to no-life the server at launch as much, but maybe that's not such a bad thing. People often burn themselves out.

I do think there's an issue with high realm rank domination stalemates, especially in the longer term.

This is an awesome idea.
I would agree on a general reset to max RR3 even full reset.
But then I would get rid of the tasks being earned by suicide (0 damage to another player) but remove the level limit.

Anyway, I don't think it's going to happen but it is funny to throw ideas/opinions on the forum
Sat 28 Sep 2019 4:44 PM by Roto23
sugaree wrote:
Fri 27 Sep 2019 6:21 PM
Roto23 wrote:
Wed 25 Sep 2019 1:17 PM
I made it through the first two paragraphs then decided it would be more interesting to go count the steps in my house.

I didn't even get that far but don't leave us hanging man, how many steps!?

25 interior steps. I didn't count outside
Thu 17 Oct 2019 5:40 AM by LedriTheThane
If they made a yearly launch of a new fresh server with different rule sets and added/different mechanics, that could be fairly interesting. Wouldn't need to worry about RR11/12 people destroying everything in sight and ruining the server.

Didn't need a super long post to suggest it though lol, but I get the point.
Thu 17 Oct 2019 10:09 AM by Lillebror
florin wrote:
Wed 25 Sep 2019 11:12 AM
A re launch would be interesting but the problem isn’t so much the game - yes it’s completely flawed - but the implementation choices and management on this server.

Given that will unlikely change, if there was a relaunch, learn from wow and implement phases.

Phase 1 - 1-50 - 1 month
Phase 2 epic raids - 1 month
Phase 3 - rvr - open up realm ranks capped at rr5
Phase 4 - open up relics
Phase 5 - trash the instances

Controlled release instead of a race to the top that incentivizes taking advantage of every exploit and imbalance not fixed

If they failed its this.
Rerollers and newcommers start at a disadvantage, economically (salvage) and due to epic raids (regular epic raids, DR summoners hall and legion, ppl have there credits now) and realm tasks, its tuned down. on top of ofc fighting the one char ppl that is rr8-12.

I never played an easyer server pve wise, and think its the right place to be.
Thu 17 Oct 2019 12:20 PM by borodino1812
Your best bet is an Uthgard wipe and relaunch, I wouldn't hold my breath on that one though. Until then, this is probably the best you'll get. Live.....?....oh dear..
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