Would you've kicked him?

Started 23 Aug 2019
by WingR
in Tavern
Hi,

today i went out with my lvl40 ani and formed a group.. nothing special so far.
The group filled up and with 6 people we thought "what else do we need?"

Since we pulled with Eld blots so far and needed bigger pulls i invited a bard (we had a menta).

The bard came and started to play the manasong... we told him that we have a menta and that he should play endo and pull.
He said "i'm eating right now... but after that... NP"

I was a bit annoyed that he would go for /lfg when he wants to eat something, but since he started to pull i thought that it wasnt worth the argument.
He said that he thinks that Eld pulls are better.. but the group told him that his pulls are better.. we ajusted the camp a bit so the enemys wouldnt lose aggro and run back..

Then the server restart timer came up. Shortly after that he said "AFK Bio... eld pull".. so the eld started to pull.
10 Minutes later i started to wonder if me might had fallen into the toilet.... a while later i just removed him from the party and thoguth to myself "i invite him back when he comes back...". I thought that it wouldnt be fair to the rest to level him while beeing afk, because i thought that he dinged and maybe wants to leech till serverdown. I've seen people go afk after lvlup before, because if they would log they're out, but if they stay they might get some exp.. even if they die and have to release they still earn something.

The moment i kicked him he moved to the side and wrote "wtf?"
He said that he helped his mother.. so i invited him back. I thought that it is a bit weird that someone who plays some good old DAoC is still living with his mother... but whatever... he could've said something and i thougth it was rude to not to so.. but i wanted the bigger pulls.

What now made me more annoyed is that that he didnt start to pull again... he told the Eld to pull and didnt heal or anything.. he just went back afk. I told him to pull... he said "go eld pull... your pulls are better", so i removed him from the party again. Since when do leechers tell the group how to play, right?

Now he started to tell me that i'm a kid for kicking him (yes, someone who is still living with his mother called me a kid.... i couldnt believe it but it happened).
His guildmember (Who was one of the first 2 people i invited) said something to defend him (like i was the one doing him wrong, because i said that i'm annoyed by him) . Since the guild name was german i wrote in german from that point on... but the group seemed to agree with me and he also didnt say anything anymore after that (seems like he wrote with the Bard in GC and told him what we wrote about).

1 Minute before the serverdown the bard gave me a send telling me the following: (i made a screenshot... translated from german)
Ok, now listen to me you little animist kiddo. I helped my mother and was back. I dont know why you're crying now but you will not write something bad about me. I'm part of one of the best mid guilds here and dont have to listen to a "nohand" like you.

I will avoid members of "die lettanten" from now on till they explain me why this guild seems to tolerate this behavior (his guildmember supported him if i'm right).
I'm almost 100% sure that this toxic person (i cant get over him living with his mother and calling me a kid...) got banned from games like league of legends before, because he fits my stereotype of a kid that has no friends, no job and seems to think that his status in a onlinegame makes him someone and that it is ok to shittalk on others if he feels like it.

I dont care in what guild you're on mid... you're living with your mother... and even if she's like 90 years old and needs help with her dipers it still doesnt mean that you can tell the group to level your bard. GTFO!

edit: to explain it... i dont mind it if people take care of their elders .. i know some players are 45+ IRL and their mothers are 75+ and need help.. it is the way he responded and acted all the time. If he would've said "sorry.. my mother is old and needs me... i have to afk for a while" then i would've said anything. But the fact that he did try to make others pull to afk over and over and later called me a kid... rly? He even said "i'm in a good mid guild... you are a nobody and are not allowed to say anything against me" makes me think that his guy needs a MASSIVE timeout to rethink his behavior in relation to other members of the community
Fri 23 Aug 2019 4:14 PM by chryso
I would have kicked him sooner than you did.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 4:27 PM by Aph
Haha that was awesome I love the fact that die lattanen called themselves one of the best guilds!
Fri 23 Aug 2019 4:49 PM by Leandrys
The bard came and started to play the manasong... we told him that we have a menta and that he should play endo and pull.
He said "i'm eating right now... but after that... NP"

This is the moment where you should have kicked that idiot.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 4:55 PM by vxr
Look, I am with you and from what you are saying, you seemed to have given him a couple of chances more than some other people would have, but I don't agree with this part:
I thought that it is a bit wierd that someone who plays some good old DAoC is still living with his mother... but whatever...

You don't know his situation and you don't know his mothers situation. Also some cultures the kids live with the parents until they get married. So I am with you regarding how you handled the situation, but I ask you to reconsider that part. For example his mother could be a widow and sick and he could be taking care of her. Would you still think that way if that was true?

When I was leveling up, if I had to AFK for more than a couple of minutes I would let the group know and offer to disband until I am back. It seems that this player was trying to just AFK leech XP. Anyway my answer is yes, I would have kicked him.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 4:56 PM by ExcretusMaximus
He's a leech, but you're really hung up on the mother thing.

Ever consider that his mother lives with him, not the other way around?
Fri 23 Aug 2019 4:58 PM by Boltman
I'm not sticking up for him, but please note that there are some of us who do have our parents living with us. We take care of them, not the other way around..

My wife frequently has to go AFK to take care of her mother.

I'm just saying don't get hung up on that necessarily.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 5:05 PM by WingR
vxr wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 4:55 PM
You don't know his situation and you don't know his mothers situation. Also some cultures the kids live with the parents until they get married. So I am with you regarding how you handled the situation, but I ask you to reconsider that part. For example his mother could be a widow and sick and he could be taking care of her. Would you still think that way if that was true?

When I was leveling up, if I had to AFK for more than a couple of minutes I would let the group know and offer to disband until I am back. It seems that this player was trying to just AFK leech XP. Anyway my answer is yes, I would have kicked him.

See.. that is one of the points that made me pissed... i understand if his mother is sick and needs help, if he's 45 and she is 75+ and he quits his job to take care of her... i get that....

But the way he behaved (telling us what do to over and over), calling me a kid and bragging about his guild makes me think that he's a 14j old Fortnite/ League of Legends kid who thinks that he is smart by tricking other people into leveling him. I gave him so many chances and was willing to make it work... but he takes anything for granted.

When he said "i'm back" i thought we would be back to normal. I also would've let him stay if he would've said "sorry, i have to take care of my old mother... she's sick" but the way he did it... what the hell?

And if i kick you and you're back instandly somehow shows that you're on your second screen doing something else. If i would be in his situation i would've said that i'm sorry for the misunderstanding... this and that happened... maybe we're cool again next time. But what he did? WTF?
Fri 23 Aug 2019 5:42 PM by Aph
He was obviously not housing his mother. He's a basement warrior. Unemployed and ready to take over the frontiers. Dinner is at 8, 15 min afk np.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 5:52 PM by vxr
WingR wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 5:05 PM
vxr wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 4:55 PM
You don't know his situation and you don't know his mothers situation. Also some cultures the kids live with the parents until they get married. So I am with you regarding how you handled the situation, but I ask you to reconsider that part. For example his mother could be a widow and sick and he could be taking care of her. Would you still think that way if that was true?

When I was leveling up, if I had to AFK for more than a couple of minutes I would let the group know and offer to disband until I am back. It seems that this player was trying to just AFK leech XP. Anyway my answer is yes, I would have kicked him.

See.. that is one of the points that made me pissed... i understand if his mother is sick and needs help, if he's 45 and she is 75+ and he quits his job to take care of her... i get that....

But the way he behaved (telling us what do to over and over), calling me a kid and bragging about his guild makes me think that he's a 14j old Fortnite/ League of Legends kid who thinks that he is smart by tricking other people into leveling him. I gave him so many chances and was willing to make it work... but he takes anything for granted.

When he said "i'm back" i thought we would be back to normal. I also would've let him stay if he would've said "sorry, i have to take care of my old mother... she's sick" but the way he did it... what the hell?

And if i kick you and you're back instandly somehow shows that you're on your second screen doing something else. If i would be in his situation i would've said that i'm sorry for the misunderstanding... this and that happened... maybe we're cool again next time. But what he did? WTF?


I agree with you 100% that he behaved inappropriately and I think you made the right call to boot him. My only gripe is that you fixated on the mother part. The reason someone has to AFK should be irrelevant. The only thing that should matter is the duration. If it's a short duration, it's okay to stay in the group. If its a long duration you gotta disband.

The bard mentioning his guild was.... lol, who cares. you can take your guild and... you know. No offense to that guild. I don't really know anything about them. But trying to bully your way because you are part of some guild is silly.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 6:01 PM by vxr
Aph wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 5:42 PM
He was obviously not housing his mother. He's a basement warrior. Unemployed and ready to take over the frontiers. Dinner is at 8, 15 min afk np.

lol, this is probably true, but you don't know that for a fact based on the OP. I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt. But to each their own. And even if he is a basement warrior, that is irrelevant to the situation. The only thing that is relevant is how he behaved.


"Dinner is ready!"
"One more minute mom, I gotta finish this level"
"Come up now or no dinner"
"Fuck.... Coming!"
"What did you say??????"
"I said coming... mom"
Sat 24 Aug 2019 10:33 AM by Hobbog
Hello Guys,
i am one of the older members of the guild "Die Lettanten" and try to sort my thoughts about what´s happened.

First of all, i´m sorry about the situation you discribed before. It´s not our way to interact with other players. We prefer an eviroment which is based on fairness, respect to other guildmembers and players and a lot of fun while playing! And yes, most of us are casual players.

So you discribed from your point of view and we know, every situation have a minimum of two points of views.
We will check the situation internally and talk to the one, you maybe ment in your post.
Are there any expectations from your side, how to handle with this situation? It seems so, because you have made such a big statement in the Phoenixforum.

Please let me know how to go further with it. I won´t discuss it in the forum.
Sat 24 Aug 2019 11:19 AM by majky666
@OP I admire your patience. I would kick him way sooner.
Sat 24 Aug 2019 2:25 PM by Topenga
patience is a virtue...and it seems it's yours @OP

fun fact - it's a german play with words - "Die Lettanten" or singular "Dilettant"
means something like an amateur...think it's the same in english: dilettante I guess!?
Sat 24 Aug 2019 5:36 PM by Sepplord
last time i was in a situation similar to that I was the afk-leecher :/

i had "the easier kid"-duty that night and it was only for a bit of levelling so i took the risk and joined a group. I was allowed a smokebreak in between and then had to go to the bathroom too, so i was gone over ten minutes. When i came back i apologized and they were okay with the explanation. Problem then though: under 5minutes later kid woke up and i had to spontaneously go afk again (still hammered a short typo-littered message "kid awoke" or something similar.
Usually it's a matter of 10-20seconds, put in pacifier and leave the room again...well this time it was almost 15minutes before i could get back.

When i cam back the group had kicked me. No surprise. No hard feelings.
I still approached in chat and explained what happened. They responded with understanding, and were sorry that they had already filled the spot. Which was perfectly fine with me, i was just happy that i had not landed on some peoples radar of being a AFK-leecher.

-- the end --

That's how such a situation goes when everyone involved is considerate and self-aware. The story you tell has so many red-flags, that bard deserved the kick 100%. The trashtalking afterwards i won't comment on, since i am not sure it didn't go both ways. And your obsession about someone living with their mom is really a bit weird and the tone is surely heated.

Wouldn't shun the complete guild over actions of one, though it's good that the guildmaster is involved in resolving the situation
Sat 24 Aug 2019 10:57 PM by borodino1812
Assuming that your side of the story is correct, and I have no reason to assume otherwise, I'd say you were beyond patient.
Sun 25 Aug 2019 4:21 AM by Gweinyth
Sepplord wrote:
Sat 24 Aug 2019 5:36 PM
last time i was in a situation similar to that I was the afk-leecher :/

i had "the easier kid"-duty that night and it was only for a bit of levelling so i took the risk and joined a group. I was allowed a smokebreak in between and then had to go to the bathroom too, so i was gone over ten minutes. When i came back i apologized and they were okay with the explanation. Problem then though: under 5minutes later kid woke up and i had to spontaneously go afk again (still hammered a short typo-littered message "kid awoke" or something similar.
Usually it's a matter of 10-20seconds, put in pacifier and leave the room again...well this time it was almost 15minutes before i could get back.

When i cam back the group had kicked me. No surprise. No hard feelings.
I still approached in chat and explained what happened. They responded with understanding, and were sorry that they had already filled the spot. Which was perfectly fine with me, i was just happy that i had not landed on some peoples radar of being a AFK-leecher.

-- the end --

That's how such a situation goes when everyone involved is considerate and self-aware. The story you tell has so many red-flags, that bard deserved the kick 100%. The trashtalking afterwards i won't comment on, since i am not sure it didn't go both ways. And your obsession about someone living with their mom is really a bit weird and the tone is surely heated.

Wouldn't shun the complete guild over actions of one, though it's good that the guildmaster is involved in resolving the situation

I agree with you. There should be communication and respect. My elderly mother and three dogs live with me and I have to go afk to assist her or do the dogs in/out thing. I tell my group when I have to go afk. I rarely give a reason if it is something with my mother. If it is the dogs I can estimate it will be one to two minutes and I will tell my group. I cannot always estimate with my mother. Most of the time, I have had no issues with groups because I do keep the communication open.

The bard in this case was given multiple chances and deserved to be dropped.
Sun 25 Aug 2019 9:41 AM by Chaskha
I've played several time with <Die Lettanten> and my impression is quite good so I wouldn't jump to the conclusion a whole guild is to be blamed for the bad behaviour of one member.

Other than that, rude people can go solo.
Sun 25 Aug 2019 11:30 PM by LedriTheThane
Nothing wrong with living with your mother no matter your age. Stupid generalization, worse than being too lenient with a leeching asshole. And your edit is entirely a contradiction to what you said anyways.
Mon 26 Aug 2019 12:43 AM by florin
If you’re an adult male and living with your mother for any other reason than you are taking care of her...then it’s questionable. Other wise we are looking at a Psycho scenario. If you’re a female, it’s acceptable to live with your parents while they prepare the dowry. Praise be.

But for real ..know your audience, it’s a bunch of lazy pot head misfits playing a 20 year old game cause it’s free, some of us have jobs and a family and a McMansion but most of us are peasants. So please don’t judge us, we might be autistic.
Mon 26 Aug 2019 12:01 PM by Luriella
1. I was the eld who was to pull.
2. I know, that some ppl of that Guild are special, not many but too much to stay with them.
3. Group Leader decides who has to be kicked, when a char is too long afk or cut down fun.
4. If i had been leader, i would kick him much earlier.
5. Those ppl are the reason i was 95% solo lvling.
6. Next day that bard was invited in a rvr grp i was with, i immediatly look for another grp becaus he starts again make advices from his selfdeclared rich wisdom.
Tue 27 Aug 2019 4:46 PM by neonow
Luriella wrote:
Mon 26 Aug 2019 12:01 PM
2. I know, that some ppl of that Guild are special, not many but too much to stay with them.

hi, it would be nice to tell the guildleaders ingame the names of these persons....as hobbog wrote: this is not our way to interact with other players and we dont want to be a guild with a a negative impression...if u want, tell hobbog or me here the names via message or ask ingame for guildleaders.

thnx
Thu 29 Aug 2019 2:23 PM by Fugax
I would have kicked him sooner. This is DAOC not real life! Maybe for some it is, but nah...
Sat 31 Aug 2019 1:51 PM by Luluko
Only way I would let a bard afk in grp would be if he is just an endu bot and the rest of grp has heals and enough melees to make use of that endu song or if he was a close friend and would come back soon. But not somebody like that which I dont even know.
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