I love NF but.....

Started 1 Jul 2019
by Subsonica
in Tavern
ok, i voted for NF, i always loved them. OF was so boring with a lot of zerg running up and down in Emain....

BUT

at this moment i don't see any improvement of RvR, just a chaotic zerg, no one taking advantage of smallmen zones, not a single 8 vs 8 fight in Ellan Vanin. only some zerging at respective docks of every realm.

Staff should consider the opportunity to add some fontier quest, for ex. collecting stuff for RPs in the mazes, RvR bonus taking the Ellan Vanin CK, killing tasks in EV docks, etc.

i don't know if it's already planned or not, but at this state of the art, i feel a strong sensation of incompleteness. and this obviously causes a detriment of RvR in NF

cheers
Mon 1 Jul 2019 4:07 PM by LedriTheThane
100% agreed.

I thought their solo/small man bonus in the ruins was such a small and laughable addition that did nothing but encourage bigger groups of people to get ran over near such places. I knew from the get go that it was going to be bad. Having only 1 zone for incentivized soloing is bad. I suggested Ellan Vannin to be the place since it's much larger so getting ran over is more easily avoidable.

The reason why soloing can work in live, and why there's a variety of people going everywhere, is because of the numerous incentives. Rubble/supply box quest that you can grab in ALL the ruins simultaneously as well as all over EV, the pictish quests, otherworldly ore and essences to be picked up all around, and the latest soloing hubs inside of each realm. You know, those fancy looking buildings. There needs to be more than just one solo and one small man hub at a time if the bonus will be solely a % based increase. You don't need to copy live with their quests, but there needs to be a little more than just that. I'd like to see EV be a really nice 8v8/small man vs small man/1v1 zone if possible.

(And I know people will argue about muh live population, but the issues with live aren't how they handle incentives in the frontiers, it's been the recent overhaul of class changes and the broken as shit Curse quest. At least, as of late. ToA stat changes and introduction of master levels was an issue back in the day but not anymore.)
Mon 1 Jul 2019 4:41 PM by Kampfar
You cant force ppl to solo duo smallmen 8v8 or whatever.
And in true love, there is no but!
Mon 1 Jul 2019 5:28 PM by ExcretusMaximus
You know what groups don't appreciate? Losing a fight because of lag.

You'll never find a lot of people on EV as long as the underlying architecture for two previous iterations is still being loaded on top of the current one.
Mon 1 Jul 2019 8:36 PM by lurker
Personally giving the game a break for a few weeks, waiting to see what happens.
NF was just zerg tastic or dead it seemed to me.

At least with OF the zerg was pretty much contained to emain. You could avoid it by going... pretty much anywhere else. It may have been quiet sometimes but there wasn't a zerg everywhere you went.
Mon 1 Jul 2019 10:25 PM by NoExit
Sorry, but two weeks after the majority has spoken and one week after it went live you asking for the next improvent because your former choice wasn´t the promised land?
Mon 1 Jul 2019 11:01 PM by lurker
NoExit wrote:
Mon 1 Jul 2019 10:25 PM
Sorry, but two weeks after the majority has spoken and one week after it went live you asking for the next improvent because your former choice wasn´t the promised land?

Not sure what your point is.
Whats an appropriate amount of time, in your eyes, before one can discuss things that might need improvement?
Just wait an arbitrary 3-4 weeks because....?
Tue 2 Jul 2019 2:51 AM by Saroi
I am surprised that some people are surprised that nothing changed. I mean didn't you play in the test week? Instead of keeps, towers were zerged, stealthers camping docks and bridges, sometimes a group comes there too and the usual solo twf people running up to keeps to suicide with their TwF. Most keep fights there were barely any defenders.

And I hope they do not change anything. You guys wanted NF for whatever reasons, then take it as it is. Forcing action in a specific area like the ruins will backfire again or be abused in some way from some people. Just like atm with the Keeptask all those TwF people who suicide at keeps are getting so much free rp's. BD Nr. 1 in 48h/rp with over 100k than the second one while.

You can't change the mentality. If people zerged in OF, they will zerg in NF. If they zerged in NF general, they will zerg in all the forced bonus RP stuff added.
Tue 2 Jul 2019 8:23 AM by Nunki
Saroi wrote:
Tue 2 Jul 2019 2:51 AM
And I hope they do not change anything. You guys wanted NF for whatever reasons, then take it as it is. Forcing action in a specific area like the ruins will backfire again or be abused in some way from some people. Just like atm with the Keeptask all those TwF people who suicide at keeps are getting so much free rp's. BD Nr. 1 in 48h/rp with over 100k than the second one while.
EU prime here.
I agree with you, I love NF how it is and hope it stays that way (ofc open for some changes).
- Stealther camping docks and bridges is predictable action which is great.
- I see many 8x8 situations in EV which seems to be desired. EV porting system seems to be a great start.
- It is difficult to create incitations for solo / small groups without space to abuse it, but it is a great start and I saw several fights there. As soon as it attracts fgs roaming that area, you also motivate other fgs to farm those groups while they roll over a solo.
- Tower and Keep Retake Zergs are running most of the time (and that quite balanced in average), the port and tower system brings strategic depth which is amazing. I experienced more tower/keep attack/defence situations in 2 weeks of NF than in 2 months of OF (camping amg not included ). NF keeps are also way more enjoyable than OF keeps.

Every "feature" risks an abuse. Same case for keep multipliers and RvR tasks.
Keep multiplier got capped to 2.0 and task reward period got prolonged which "fixed" the massive rp gain through kamikaze twfs at keeps or keep campers.
Observing the rps / 48h of someone who plays 10h a day is not smart. Realistically he is at 5k+ / h, which is not much. He probably spends more rps than he earns.
He would earn less if people wouldn't stay afk at main keep gates, on the other side those people do it in order to gain up to 2k / h free rps while afking.

My conclusion so far (regarding EU primetime):
- Population is relatively stable, people seem to have fun in NF.
- Permanent action through EU primetime.
- Enough action of any kind, zerg, 8x8, small grp. Non speed 6 solo action was always difficult to achieve (without an arena zone).

I am happy so far.
Staff seems to be open minded for changes which is great. They try out things, modify or even shelve features based on experience or community backslash/votes and all that in their free time. I am personally impressed.
Tue 2 Jul 2019 11:42 AM by vadox
report for 07/01/2019

NF NA time - nothing is happening except one high rr alb group that knows what they doing pretty much rolling any mid or hib attempting to do casual rvr. Then they joined with more albs and that had done it for the most of non albs. No keep taking and almost no tower taking.

Rating of fun - 2.5 out of 10.

I'll keep you posted today (if I decide to log in).
Tue 2 Jul 2019 6:15 PM by Nachtfee
Fact is it´s called RvR, when you want your gangbang party play Counterstrike, this discussion is so annoyingly like what´s better OF or NF.
Tue 2 Jul 2019 7:14 PM by Pops999
vadox wrote:
Tue 2 Jul 2019 11:42 AM
report for 07/01/2019

NF NA time - nothing is happening except one high rr alb group that knows what they doing pretty much rolling any mid or hib attempting to do casual rvr. Then they joined with more albs and that had done it for the most of non albs. No keep taking and almost no tower taking.

Rating of fun - 2.5 out of 10.

I'll keep you posted today (if I decide to log in).

Dear diary,
Tue 2 Jul 2019 11:45 PM by Saroi
Nunki wrote:
Tue 2 Jul 2019 8:23 AM
Saroi wrote:
Tue 2 Jul 2019 2:51 AM
And I hope they do not change anything. You guys wanted NF for whatever reasons, then take it as it is. Forcing action in a specific area like the ruins will backfire again or be abused in some way from some people. Just like atm with the Keeptask all those TwF people who suicide at keeps are getting so much free rp's. BD Nr. 1 in 48h/rp with over 100k than the second one while.
EU prime here.
I agree with you, I love NF how it is and hope it stays that way (ofc open for some changes).
- Stealther camping docks and bridges is predictable action which is great.
- I see many 8x8 situations in EV which seems to be desired. EV porting system seems to be a great start.
- It is difficult to create incitations for solo / small groups without space to abuse it, but it is a great start and I saw several fights there. As soon as it attracts fgs roaming that area, you also motivate other fgs to farm those groups while they roll over a solo.
- Tower and Keep Retake Zergs are running most of the time (and that quite balanced in average), the port and tower system brings strategic depth which is amazing. I experienced more tower/keep attack/defence situations in 2 weeks of NF than in 2 months of OF (camping amg not included ). NF keeps are also way more enjoyable than OF keeps.

Every "feature" risks an abuse. Same case for keep multipliers and RvR tasks.
Keep multiplier got capped to 2.0 and task reward period got prolonged which "fixed" the massive rp gain through kamikaze twfs at keeps or keep campers.
Observing the rps / 48h of someone who plays 10h a day is not smart. Realistically he is at 5k+ / h, which is not much. He probably spends more rps than he earns.
He would earn less if people wouldn't stay afk at main keep gates, on the other side those people do it in order to gain up to 2k / h free rps while afking.

My conclusion so far (regarding EU primetime):
- Population is relatively stable, people seem to have fun in NF.
- Permanent action through EU primetime.
- Enough action of any kind, zerg, 8x8, small grp. Non speed 6 solo action was always difficult to achieve (without an arena zone).

I am happy so far.
Staff seems to be open minded for changes which is great. They try out things, modify or even shelve features based on experience or community backslash/votes and all that in their free time. I am personally impressed.

I did /stats player the BD

120k rp's in 6 1/2 hours played. That is 18k/h. Yeah surely is not much. It is not just the afk people, if you attack guards you get bonus too. The multipler cap just was that you cannot make 600k+ a day like Stunbot did but you still are able to have 150-200k in a few hours.

Not sure about Ellan. I barely see any Killspam there, most people there are levelers or craftman quest because of the ghostly/ghastly. There are a lot of posts here that noone goes there, even after the teleporter. Ellan could be viable but the complaints are it is too laggy and not worth it.

EU Primetime is good but it is too zergy. Albs mostly have 180 in Frontier and everytime over 100 are in BG. 2 days ago there were even 143 albs in Frontier and 105 in BG, that doesn't leave much room for small man/8groups on Alb. Not sure about how it is in Mid but Hibs always have a very big BG too.

But in NA time you do not have that. Some realms barely have over 100. I played 4 am morning EU, which should be evening / midnight in NA, there was good solo action for me for a bit, until Hib who had 182 online began taking all Alb towers. Albs with around 130 online couldn't do anything to defend. Only port left was Hurbury but docks were camped by Mids same as the docks in Forest sauvage. At this point you are totally trapped, No port, no docks, no action. As a soloer you are way more depended on zerg to defend than in OF. If a realm has very low pop it is just over for them in NF. Good thing is the underpop bonus of 40/50% though. Some Albs did try to make a BG to get towers back for port but not much came and then some ALbs logged frustrated out which dropped the Alb players to around 100.
Fri 5 Jul 2019 9:10 AM by gnefner
3 realms each have huge zergs EU prime, and that's about all the action you can get.. Maybe you can find some poeple runing to said zergs..

It's horrible..
Fri 5 Jul 2019 9:23 AM by Ceen
gnefner wrote:
Fri 5 Jul 2019 9:10 AM
3 realms each have huge zergs EU prime, and that's about all the action you can get.. Maybe you can find some poeple runing to said zergs..

It's horrible..
+ You will miss 80 % of those few incs since they run another way.
It melted down to keep fights only as expected /yawn.
Fri 5 Jul 2019 12:32 PM by Nunki
gnefner wrote:
Fri 5 Jul 2019 9:10 AM
3 realms each have huge zergs EU prime, and that's about all the action you can get.. Maybe you can find some poeple runing to said zergs..

It's horrible..

That is really interesting.
I find solo battles, small man fights and I see fg's roaming around and battling each other.
All of that WHILE there are massive zergs running around which you can easily dodge in NF.

I understand different perspectives during different timezones, but I can't understand that both of us compare primetime EU while you don't see what I see...
Fri 5 Jul 2019 1:18 PM by Sepplord
my lvl40 healer that is idle-levelling off tasks from time to time got a solo kill recently while "defending" bledmeer (cough afk cough)

that proves that solokills come often and easy in NF

/thread
Fri 5 Jul 2019 1:29 PM by lurker
Nunki wrote:
Fri 5 Jul 2019 12:32 PM
That is really interesting.
I find solo battles, small man fights and I see fg's roaming around and battling each other.
All of that WHILE there are massive zergs running around which you can easily dodge in NF.

I understand different perspectives during different timezones, but I can't understand that both of us compare primetime EU while you don't see what I see...

Is this you?

https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Nunki
Sat 6 Jul 2019 11:40 AM by Chaskha
I voted NF.
I'm glad with my choice but yes, it is not perfect. I used to be able in OF to go near a domination task, port, shroom in a forest on a hill and kill some solo running to do take the flag. Now, I'm only meat for stealthers as it's a clear view everywhere and for some reasons when I successfully plant, the damn shrooms are not firing anything (been a week I didn't try though so this may have been a bug fixed in the meantime).

The world is not perfect. The solution though is not to go alone, make buddies, start a group or two, run with them.

In the end, DAoC is about finding a good synergy with other people, no matter the map.
Sat 6 Jul 2019 1:40 PM by florin
For me nf is vastly superior - especially against the population killing rps farmers. Now that the pop is continuing its decline, weekend nights are going to be the only really active nights for NA players. Assuming each realm can field enough numbers.
Mon 8 Jul 2019 9:14 AM by gnefner
Nunki wrote:
Fri 5 Jul 2019 12:32 PM
gnefner wrote:
Fri 5 Jul 2019 9:10 AM
3 realms each have huge zergs EU prime, and that's about all the action you can get.. Maybe you can find some poeple runing to said zergs..

It's horrible..

That is really interesting.
I find solo battles, small man fights and I see fg's roaming around and battling each other.
All of that WHILE there are massive zergs running around which you can easily dodge in NF.

I understand different perspectives during different timezones, but I can't understand that both of us compare primetime EU while you don't see what I see...

To be fair, this weekend was actually pretty decent It jusr saddens me that with the current population, there's still 130+ from each damn realm, runing around banging on doors all day long, instead of looking for some real fights - but to each their own, I guess.
Mon 8 Jul 2019 12:51 PM by Lev
Subsonica wrote:
Mon 1 Jul 2019 3:29 PM
ok, i voted for NF, i always loved them. OF was so boring with a lot of zerg running up and down in Emain....

BUT

at this moment i don't see any improvement of RvR, just a chaotic zerg, no one taking advantage of smallmen zones, not a single 8 vs 8 fight in Ellan Vanin. only some zerging at respective docks of every realm.
well, some majority voted for NF. i hoped, most of them knew what they are voting for.

I did know nothing of NF anymore, as it was just too long ago (10+ years). and during the one week test I could not even remotely learn the new do's and don'ts. I am slowly beginning to learn to avoid the bad. I don't just ride boats to the end, run over bridges, run to docks unprepared, etc. etc. and I guess some players are in the same boat as me.
of course, this reduces action, where in the weeks test there was a lot of action at those points. and it will die down even further as more players become aware of the better ways. the problem is, if everyone can get everywhere on a more or less safe path, a vast amount of players is needed to create any action besides at the task keep or in a big BG taking towers. I have two options now: camp the task keep (if we own it) or join the BG (if there is one).
Fri 2 Aug 2019 9:12 PM by luffy
Which is why I voted to stay OF. I played NF on live and knew where it was going. The really good 8mans would roll all the casual 8 mans to the point where they just join the BG to at least get some RPS / fun. This would lead to good 8mans to get bored and slowly start to quit the game (since they tend not to like and criticize BG's). The BG's with less people would roam taking keeps and towers and avoid engagements with the other BG's with more people. So basically, you are PVE'ing keeps / towers. Every once and a while the BG with more people would trap the smaller BG and wipe them. The smaller BG leader would release and find that half of their BG released and did not come back due to frustration. Eventually, BG leaders start to hate leading and stop doing it. More people quit as no good action that cause's more people to quit. Eventually only the hard core DAOC fans remain. I hope this does not play out, but I am already starting to see it. With OF there was BG action, good 8 man groups had good groups to fight. The casual 8 mans would roam and team up with other casual 8 mans to fight the good 8 mans and have a chance. It was fun for the good 8 mans as they had a good challenge and bragging rights if they won against 2-3 groups which they often did. The only thing lacking with OF was the keep siege action was not as good as in NF; which I agree with. But, everything else was way better in OF. I say in 6 months do another vote and see if the population still agree's with NF.
Fri 2 Aug 2019 9:54 PM by gotwqqd
So what’s this strange reason the casual 8 man are not “joining up” against the elite ones? Instead now they join the Zerg?
Fri 2 Aug 2019 10:59 PM by Numatic
All I ever see is 8mans roaming for solo kills. And 8 out of 10 times when another 8 man shows up they run. It happens every single time I'm on. PK is notorious for being horrible against even numbers (especially now that they cant exploit twf) because all they ever do is engage soloers or small mans. Nobody wants fair fights anymore. They just wanna train roll over others. I'll see a dozen people on these forums saying they cant find fair 8man fights and watch these same people going to bled or beno to kill soloers. It makes me laugh. This is why we have zergs. The more numbers, the easier the kills. The only ones who are really seeking fair fights anymore are the masochists who solo/duo/trio etc. But even I'm guilty of it. I duo alot and we kill soloers a fair amount. Simply because we always get added anyways.
Sat 3 Aug 2019 12:54 AM by Moid
lurker wrote:
Mon 1 Jul 2019 11:01 PM
NoExit wrote:
Mon 1 Jul 2019 10:25 PM
Sorry, but two weeks after the majority has spoken and one week after it went live you asking for the next improvent because your former choice wasn´t the promised land?

Not sure what your point is.
Whats an appropriate amount of time, in your eyes, before one can discuss things that might need improvement?
Just wait an arbitrary 3-4 weeks because....?
His point is that the problem wasn’t OF which is obvious because people voted against OF and for NF which a short time later they are now complaining about.

Then again it was always obvious the problem wasn’t OF or NF, the problem is partly the game design, partly the developers and partly the community (specifically the XvX crowd). I think the developers should give you XvX man idiots a zone for only XvX mans, then at least the rest of us don’t have to listen to you cry. The XvX crowd has been whining since day 1 and the dumbass developers have been accommodating you shockingly. First with the realm task change and it hasn’t stopped since and it never will.
Mon 5 Aug 2019 7:15 PM by lurker
Moid wrote:
Sat 3 Aug 2019 12:54 AM
blah blah... XvX man idiots blah blah... dumbass developers

You sound totally reasonable and worth engaging with, but a bit short on time so ill give it a miss!
Tue 6 Aug 2019 5:56 AM by Aph
Numatic wrote:
Fri 2 Aug 2019 10:59 PM
All I ever see is 8mans roaming for solo kills. And 8 out of 10 times when another 8 man shows up they run. It happens every single time I'm on. PK is notorious for being horrible against even numbers (especially now that they cant exploit twf) because all they ever do is engage soloers or small mans. Nobody wants fair fights anymore. They just wanna train roll over others. I'll see a dozen people on these forums saying they cant find fair 8man fights and watch these same people going to bled or beno to kill soloers. It makes me laugh.

Do you know the people that play 8man? I think I’ve seen 2 or 3 of those actually post on the forums... Don’t talk smack if you have nothing to back it up with.
Just because you see a pug roaming docks and stomping solos doesn’t mean it’s a general tendency.

And how would you notice all the good fights happening all over? That’s right, you can’t. You are on a bridge or at the docks...... 200 iq
Tue 6 Aug 2019 7:17 AM by bm01
NF is only slightly worse for 8vs8. Which is anyway the first play style to die out when the population inevitably drops after a few months.
Aph wrote:
Tue 6 Aug 2019 5:56 AM
Just because you see a pug roaming docks and stomping solos doesn’t mean it’s a general tendency.
It doesn't have anything to do with pick-up groups though, Philosopher Kingz for example are well known to roam around Bled trying to pull people. When you take the time to form a group or when your play time is scheduled, you don't simply stop playing because there's no 8vs8 action. You temporarily join zergs or stay near them, and kill solo / small groups.
Tue 6 Aug 2019 7:41 AM by Aph
I suppose you play late NA. I play scheduled hours as well and haven’t met any issues with action. There is always a Zerg to battle if all the other 8mans gave up. I would quit after 10 mins if my 8man was only killing solos and the likes though. No rps and no fun.

Pk runs a 4 man and they are not your general type of player.. in of they rolled solos in emain for HOURS in a row; instead of bashing the 8man play style people should call out these type of people.
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