Reasonable and easy to implement changes to archery

Started 23 Mar 2020
by jwalker
in Suggestions
I think most people would agree that archery in this server is not performing well. Lowish attack stats/speed vs. higher than original HP and AF forces the archers into a melee orientated style with little or no archery (see also how scout is suffering the most therefore). I recently played around with long shot and its okish, but 6 points for 1 shot every 5 minutes is questionable. However, I think this would be the way to go to make archery not only a bit better, but also less boring, Therefore I propose to change some of the existing abilitys and move the timed archers RAs into the bow line. Last but not least, we can take the opportunity to fix that stupid 20% unstealth mechanic on crit shot. Rapid fire can be used to increase the none crit shot DPS of archers, numbers can be adapted but that's the idea how to

Rapid fire (changed):
Bow 20 = rapid fire 1 (90% draw time, damage reduced to 92%)
Bow 25 = rapid fire 2 (80% draw time, damage reduced to 83%)
Bow 30 = rapid fire 3 (70% draw time, damage reduced to 74%) <- thats around 5,8% damage increase which matches the loss via resist changes
Bow 35 = rapid fire 4 (60% draw time, damage reduced to 65%) <- thats around 8% damage increase
Bow 40 = rapid fire 5 (60% draw time, damage reduced to 66%)
Bow 45 = rapid fire 6 (60% draw time, damage reduced to 68%)
Bow 50 = rapid fire 7 (60% draw time, damage reduced to 70%) <- thats about 16% damage increase and a 23% difference from current 52 comp spec to 68 total bow spec but only for rapid fire shots)

Long shot (changed, moved to skill line)
Bow 21 = Long shot 1 (breaks bubble, 110% range, recast 4 minutes)
Bow 26 = Long shot 2 (breaks bubble, 120% range, recast 2 minutes)
Bow 31 = Long shot 3 (breaks bubble, 130% range, recast 1 minutes)
Bow 36 = Long shot 4 (breaks bubble, 140% range, recast 30 seconds)
Bow 41 = Long shot 5 (breaks bubble, 150% range, recast 15 seconds)
Bow 46 = Long shot 6 (breaks bubble, 150% range, recast 8 seconds)

Volley (changed and moved to skill line)
Bow 34 = Volley 1 (current volley, recast 45 seconds recast)
Bow 39 = Volley 2 (current volley, recast 30 seconds recast)
Bow 44 = Volley 3 (current volley, recast 15 seconds recast)

Crit shot (extended after 27):
Bow 27 = Crit shot 9 (current last crit shot has a 20% increased draw time, 20% chance to unstealth)
Bow 30 = Crit shot 10 (like 9 but only 10% unstealth)
Bow 33 = Crit shot 11 (same as 9 but 0% unstealth)
Bow 36 = Crit shot 12 (same as 11 but only 10% longer draw time)
Bow 39 = Crit shot 12 (like 11 but same draw time as regular shot)

Quickshot
Bow level 1 = Free shot 1 (makes the next regular shot uninterruptable, 60% draw time, only 60% damage dealt, recast 30 seconds, can't combine with long, rapid or crit shot)

*Notes on rapid shot: 60% should be the maximum, as 5,0 bows (slowest for hunters) can already cap out at 60% with high quick and Mastery of arms. The difference in draw time vs. damage reduction is a direct BUFF to the archers dps, but without increasing crit shot damage.
*Notes on long shot: the ability to break bubble and then switch into crit shot is a great tool, added the ability to shot a runner from afar adds some utility. With higher bow spec the recast gets really low as an reward for speccing deep into bow
*Notes on quickshot: its a neat way to make the archers a bit less of a victim in the interrupt game and also gives higher specced archers a way to use their bow a bit more before in melee

EDIT: adapted the Volley recast, thought its 8 seconds ATM
Mon 23 Mar 2020 12:07 PM by MeatBicycle
Volley Changes are quite difficult because its easy to stack a few archers for volley assist. Thats even with the actual bow dmg as a gtae very hard. With such a low cd you can totally deny deffers on towers/keep just through volley spam because the volley damage is much higher than the gtae spells.
Mon 23 Mar 2020 2:56 PM by Cadebrennus
MeatBicycle wrote:
Mon 23 Mar 2020 12:07 PM
Volley Changes are quite difficult because its easy to stack a few archers for volley assist. Thats even with the actual bow dmg as a gtae very hard. With such a low cd you can totally deny deffers on towers/keep just through volley spam because the volley damage is much higher than the gtae spells.

You assume that Archers are in any way even close to being as semi-organised as Caster assist groups are organised. This generally does not happen.
Tue 24 Mar 2020 1:24 PM by Azrael
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 23 Mar 2020 2:56 PM
MeatBicycle wrote:
Mon 23 Mar 2020 12:07 PM
Volley Changes are quite difficult because its easy to stack a few archers for volley assist. Thats even with the actual bow dmg as a gtae very hard. With such a low cd you can totally deny deffers on towers/keep just through volley spam because the volley damage is much higher than the gtae spells.

You assume that Archers are in any way even close to being as semi-organised as Caster assist groups are organised. This generally does not happen.

You assume ppl don't change their behavior if a class/skill will be buffed/improved.
Tue 24 Mar 2020 6:14 PM by easytoremember
MeatBicycle wrote:
Mon 23 Mar 2020 12:07 PM
Volley Changes are quite difficult because its easy to stack a few archers for volley assist. Thats even with the actual bow dmg as a gtae very hard. With such a low cd you can totally deny deffers on towers/keep just through volley spam because the volley damage is much higher than the gtae spells.
On 15 sec reuse it's pretty much already constant load-fire, concise presses give 2-second downtime
Tue 24 Mar 2020 7:45 PM by Cadebrennus
Azrael wrote:
Tue 24 Mar 2020 1:24 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
Mon 23 Mar 2020 2:56 PM
MeatBicycle wrote:
Mon 23 Mar 2020 12:07 PM
Volley Changes are quite difficult because its easy to stack a few archers for volley assist. Thats even with the actual bow dmg as a gtae very hard. With such a low cd you can totally deny deffers on towers/keep just through volley spam because the volley damage is much higher than the gtae spells.

You assume that Archers are in any way even close to being as semi-organised as Caster assist groups are organised. This generally does not happen.

You assume ppl don't change their behavior if a class/skill will be buffed/improved.

I've been playing an Archer since classic. Unfortunately most of the players drawn to Archers/Assassins play in a "me first" fashion, even within a group/BG/etc., and even if played by people who normally know how to group play with other classes. Back on Live I stopped inviting Archers to our Visi groups (while playing an Archer myself, in a Visi group) because they would stay stealthed most fights and not contribute. It's a weird mindset people get the second they get access to a stealth button, and requires far more than a buff to a class to change that mindset, unfortunately.
Wed 25 Mar 2020 3:32 PM by pollojack
This will result in a RA dump into IP. I strongly suggest keeping Volley or Longshot as abilities that require points.

Additionally, having crit shot destealth based off of spec instead of composite spec kneecaps higher RR archers as they eventually reach a cap on how much bow they can drop for melee.
Thu 26 Mar 2020 12:22 PM by Parole
Increase Critshot by 200dmg to account for HP increases and spec AF buff everywhere, allow multiple crit shot if target is not running. No need for a “crit timer”. Allow critical shot ability the chance to bonus crit damage.
Fri 27 Mar 2020 10:35 AM by jwalker
pollojack wrote:
Wed 25 Mar 2020 3:32 PM
This will result in a RA dump into IP. I strongly suggest keeping Volley or Longshot as abilities that require points.

Additionally, having crit shot destealth based off of spec instead of composite spec kneecaps higher RR archers as they eventually reach a cap on how much bow they can drop for melee.

This already happens - currently even with 50 Bow you have a 20% chance to unstealth while loading crit shot and with an 20% increased draw time. The higher levels just decrease these negatives. A high RR hybrid ranger who wants to maintain 52 composite can easily keep 30 bow and is still better of than now (only 10%)

Which melee, hybrid ranger currently specs longshot? (except me). The ones that really have Volley on a considerable level you don't care about IP because they suck in melee due to 44 Bow. EDIT [realized curret Volley is v15 seconds so I adjusted the recasts in my original post). Yes you might shoot a 39 or 34 volley during a siege but with the longer recast it's negligable.
Fri 27 Mar 2020 10:38 AM by jwalker
Parole wrote:
Thu 26 Mar 2020 12:22 PM
Increase Critshot by 200dmg to account for HP increases and spec AF buff everywhere, allow multiple crit shot if target is not running. No need for a “crit timer”. Allow critical shot ability the chance to bonus crit damage.

Currently the crit shot damage is ok, but I would like crit shot to just do "double damage" instead of 100% damage + 100% critical hit and still have the ability to crit with it. Currently Falcon eye AND mastery of archery is questionable because both do not really do anything on a preloaded crit shot. I personally dislike the DPS of archery, crit shot damage feels ok to me.
Fri 27 Mar 2020 10:39 AM by jwalker
MeatBicycle wrote:
Mon 23 Mar 2020 12:07 PM
Volley Changes are quite difficult because its easy to stack a few archers for volley assist. Thats even with the actual bow dmg as a gtae very hard. With such a low cd you can totally deny deffers on towers/keep just through volley spam because the volley damage is much higher than the gtae spells.

Realized the current recast is 15 seconds. I Edit the post to make it 15 seconds at best!

Now unless you go 44 archery, volley gets worse. The Archers that do want to have volley ATM just spend the 8 ra points to have it at low recast.
Fri 27 Mar 2020 3:51 PM by pollojack
jwalker wrote:
Fri 27 Mar 2020 10:35 AM
pollojack wrote:
Wed 25 Mar 2020 3:32 PM
This will result in a RA dump into IP. I strongly suggest keeping Volley or Longshot as abilities that require points.

Additionally, having crit shot destealth based off of spec instead of composite spec kneecaps higher RR archers as they eventually reach a cap on how much bow they can drop for melee.

This already happens - currently even with 50 Bow you have a 20% chance to unstealth while loading crit shot and with an 20% increased draw time. The higher levels just decrease these negatives. A high RR hybrid ranger who wants to maintain 52 composite can easily keep 30 bow and is still better of than now (only 10%)

Which melee, hybrid ranger currently specs longshot? (except me). The ones that really have Volley on a considerable level you don't care about IP because they suck in melee due to 44 Bow. EDIT [realized curret Volley is v15 seconds so I adjusted the recasts in my original post). Yes you might shoot a 39 or 34 volley during a siege but with the longer recast it's negligable.
I use longshot to break BT. Useful in DF and when they are aren't being still in frontiers.
Sat 28 Mar 2020 12:42 PM by inoeth
even thoug i would not invest any more points than 27 into bow think these changes could make the archer classes more interesting for those you want to play pure archers. actually its the first archery suggestion which is not totally over the top like add flat 200 dmg (hi parole lol)
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