Re: Mid is the new Alb

Horus wrote:
Thu 23 Jan 2020 4:07 PM
Phoenix is broken atm.

Sad really, no need for it to be. Nice QoL changes but too much playing around too loosely with the classic rules has created something in RvR that is just out of whack.

PVE has been fine since beta. It is fine now. However there was no need to ever put any work into changing PvE it was super easy and accessible from day 1...except adding content which is fine for those that enjoy PvE.

As far as RvR...
It always was a tenuous balance between realms/classes...some may say it was never perfect but Phoenix really has screwed things up.

HP to DPS is way off...ranged damage barely moves HP bars...and all it takes is one interrupt to stop ranged dmg in its tracks. That is why it should be high. Unless you want to make melee attacks interruptable or remove the ability to interrupt bows or casting...the glass cannon formula must be in place. High damage, easy to stop is core to the classic formula.

CC used to be a critical tool for casters. Now it is worthless.

Places that should be defensive positions for ranged damage dealers are now nothing more than death traps to melee wall climbers and cheap/easy siege equipment spam which leads me to...

Siege equipment which used a be a tool for the strong and takes some planning to deploy now is spammed by anyone with a few gold in their pocket.

Buffs which used to make grouping with a buff class exceedingly valuable and made self buffing classes able to compete now are watered down by cheap availability for all so already strong classes can have their cake buffed and eat it too.

Remember when endurance management was a big part of warfare? There was a reason why that was put into place. Now it is a total non factor. I like perma-endurance as much as the next person but if we want to be honest, it is a game changer and messes with the DPS vs mobility formula balance immensely. Spell and bow ranges were not arbitrarily set . They were done based on the amount of time it takes someone to traverse that distance. 100% perma sprint breaks that formula. IMO there should be NO perma sprint under any condition. Some basic endo regen should be available via ra/spell/pot but nothing that allows perma sprint. You know that part on a style description where it says endurance cost? Remember when that meant something? Melee classes were not intended to be able to spam never ending styles. I can say that as on my ranger I was never intended to be able to spam rapid fire. That is why higher bow spec versions cost less endo. It was a pricey choice to make! Now I can just rapid fire with impunity. Sure it is nice for me, but to be fair was never intended by the classic design. Same with melee styles. The toothpaste is out of the tube on this one...not sure what could ever be rolled back...but it should be.

Too many field RAs. It is just silly at this point.

Not to be the "doom and gloom" guy, but I am already hearing the rumblings and seeing the signs. I hope it's not too late for Phoenix.

The Drunken Ranger!-keeping Devs honest since 2012
Also playing a dual-wielding Saracen
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https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2902

Re: Mid is the new Alb

Horus wrote:
Thu 23 Jan 2020 4:07 PM
Phoenix is broken atm.

....

Can only agree with you ... and the final kill came from the HP upgrade.

balance was always a hard things but it's now completely broken.

Re: Mid is the new Alb

Sepplord wrote:
Thu 23 Jan 2020 10:49 AM
The old Albion-clichee is the AMG-zerg.
Now it's the albion taskkeepzerg or benozerg.

From my POV i don't see nearly as many mids around bledmeer/taskkeep as i see albs that seem to have dedicated fullgrps or more camping their keepdoor until someone announces an inc in region chat.
Mid might be doing the same thing, but it's not like Albion has decreased their zergcamping strategy


I used to think the exact same thing when I played Hib. I'll roll out to see what was happening at Beno when I was on my NS. It was swarming with Albs 24/7. I never did understand why the hell it was like that.

Fast forward to me now playing on Alb. I've now realized why it's like that. It's because 8mans come there to pick off people running to the dock, 24/7. All day long. Beno's postern door in relation to the dock, gives enemies a perfect place to hit people coming out of that door. They don't have to worry about tons of guards, as there are only 2, and they don't have to worry about oil. So they roll up, smash anybody standing there, kill off the 2 guards and are now in position to Farm that postern door until they finally become overwhelmed. This is repeated all day long. No other keep is like this in relation to the dock.

So, why leave Beno, when the action is coming to your door step, literally all day.
Hwwaatt - NS RR11 Lone Enforcer
Hhwaat - Merc RR10

Re: Mid is the new Alb

thirian24 wrote:
Fri 24 Jan 2020 11:36 PM
Sepplord wrote:
Thu 23 Jan 2020 10:49 AM
The old Albion-clichee is the AMG-zerg.
Now it's the albion taskkeepzerg or benozerg.

From my POV i don't see nearly as many mids around bledmeer/taskkeep as i see albs that seem to have dedicated fullgrps or more camping their keepdoor until someone announces an inc in region chat.
Mid might be doing the same thing, but it's not like Albion has decreased their zergcamping strategy


I used to think the exact same thing when I played Hib. I'll roll out to see what was happening at Beno when I was on my NS. It was swarming with Albs 24/7. I never did understand why the hell it was like that.

Fast forward to me now playing on Alb. I've now realized why it's like that. It's because 8mans come there to pick off people running to the dock, 24/7. All day long. Beno's postern door in relation to the dock, gives enemies a perfect place to hit people coming out of that door. They don't have to worry about tons of guards, as there are only 2, and they don't have to worry about oil. So they roll up, smash anybody standing there, kill off the 2 guards and are now in position to Farm that postern door until they finally become overwhelmed. This is repeated all day long. No other keep is like this in relation to the dock.

So, why leave Beno, when the action is coming to your door step, literally all day.

Albs have always been playing Baywatch at beno landing, it is as old a game as "show me yours, i show you mine".... Go to Beno this is what you get.

The thing is, that in regards to mids there is literally only 1 or maybe 2 groups roaming around EU time at the moment. Only other mids are solos, small mans or the big ass zerg they have running around.

Hibs and Albs at least have groups running around surfing around the zergs and offering some fun opposition and good fights, mids do not, only the 1-2 same groups.

The mid zerg is quite high RR and yet the groups do not dare to break off from the zerg..... Back in old frontiers you had the Weltenbrand noobs that zerged between AMG and MMG in Emain.... I mean, they were pathetic and you could usually kill them with a 2 decent groups teaming up to make quick work of them... but now the mid zerg is literally 8-10 times of what it was in old emain and they run very close, no groups running off to roam around the zergs, nope....
Most of the times if you actually do manage to find a mid group who got lost away from their zerg, they will be very high RR and still run away or SOS away if they have to to get back to the zerg simply refusing to take a group engage... i don't get it.

I am by no means an elitist and enjoy the zerg fights very much, but its crazy how there is literally NO mids anywhere else to be found than in the zerg.
Jero.

Re: Mid is the new Alb

Enyore wrote:
Sat 25 Jan 2020 12:58 AM
The mid zerg is quite high RR and yet the groups do not dare to break off from the zerg..... Back in old frontiers you had the Weltenbrand noobs that zerged between AMG and MMG in Emain.... I mean, they were pathetic and you could usually kill them with a 2 decent groups teaming up to make quick work of them...


The bus is now full of rr 10-11

To manage a bus you need casters with aoe and/or quick dps, when i took you max 5 shots do down a big fat tank now it takes you at least 5 or 6.

Also to play a decent realm war with under populated realm you need strategy and ability to fight in structure, we lost both. Defense in structure is just a big trap . Realm strategy is mobility, so where one or two fast group could cut a realm port by taking two or three towers in ennemy land to slow them down and have the zerg to move (more slowly) back to retake them it was possible but now you have to take a keep to do so.

Re: Mid is the new Alb

lacus wrote:
Sat 25 Jan 2020 8:54 AM
Enyore wrote:
Sat 25 Jan 2020 12:58 AM
The mid zerg is quite high RR and yet the groups do not dare to break off from the zerg..... Back in old frontiers you had the Weltenbrand noobs that zerged between AMG and MMG in Emain.... I mean, they were pathetic and you could usually kill them with a 2 decent groups teaming up to make quick work of them...


The bus is now full of rr 10-11

To manage a bus you need casters with aoe and/or quick dps, when i took you max 5 shots do down a big fat tank now it takes you at least 5 or 6.

Also to play a decent realm war with under populated realm you need strategy and ability to fight in structure, we lost both. Defense in structure is just a big trap . Realm strategy is mobility, so where one or two fast group could cut a realm port by taking two or three towers in ennemy land to slow them down and have the zerg to move (more slowly) back to retake them it was possible but now you have to take a keep to do so.

I really think you missed my point...................

The point is not that you cant, or how to, beat them......... the point is that the ONLY action vs mids that exist is this fight as none of the mids are running outside the zerg with exception of the select few.
Jero.

Re: Mid is the new Alb

While I agree with Horus on most points, what would be the use of higher HPs if damages would be scaled up too ?
Other than that, excellent points but I doubt it's ever addressed (because changing that would require some kind of reset and a loss of population => maybe in a year with a Phoenix II project if the population has dropped enough but currently I doubt there is a solution).

Re: Mid is the new Alb

Phoenix is not perfect, but has far less issues than Live.

On Live the gear, RAs, MLs, CLs, etc. made fights ridiculously long. On my Live Champ I fought Shouldataken the Pally for 25 minutes. Here the fights are usually 30-60 seconds. So I don't see the HP boost as a massive issue.

On Live endo management was a non-issue. Conversely, my Phoenix Hero can run out of endo pretty quick if I spam the anytime styles.

I'm just saying some valid points have been raised in this thread, but I don't think the situation is as dire.
Currently soloing on: Stewpidity Ranger, Stewdabaker Chanter, Stewthanasia Champ

Re: Mid is the new Alb

stewbeedoo wrote:
Sat 25 Jan 2020 8:03 PM
Phoenix is not perfect, but has far less issues than Live.

On Live the gear, RAs, MLs, CLs, etc. made fights ridiculously long. On my Live Champ I fought Shouldataken the Pally for 25 minutes. Here the fights are usually 30-60 seconds. So I don't see the HP boost as a massive issue.

On Live endo management was a non-issue. Conversely, my Phoenix Hero can run out of endo pretty quick if I spam the anytime styles.

I'm just saying some valid points have been raised in this thread, but I don't think the situation is as dire.

this!
imo the server is not the problem, imo its overall pretty much balanced. its the players and their desires. too many ppl that are happy with sticking the zerg pushing just one button. and all the players who seek challenging fights are just rolled over. thats why those guys left and the only players that stayed are the zergers.
Horg solo Hunter Einherjar Lone Enforcer
Keriala solo rr6 Ranger
Eik solo rr6 Shadowblade
Ean solo rr4 Paladin