potion of lucidity - Phoenix Freeshard

Quick question. How exactly does the potion of lucidity work? And to that, would a stealthers already natural ability to see stealthed enemies have a stacking effect with the potion?

I'm curious if the potion adds a specific value to a class allowing them to detect stealthers. If so, does that mean that an inf ,for example, would be able to see an enemy stealther closer than a scout would? Also, would the scout then have greater detection than a non stealthed class?

Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks!

Mon 5 Oct 2020 9:02 AM by Sepplord

afaik it gives you a bonus to your detection range, so yes a stealther with pot will find stealthed targets easier than a visible using a pot

An assassin doesn't have a detection advantage over archers though, they both see eachother at the same distance (assassins see OTHER ASSASSINS worse though...so that results in archers being the best detectors, assassins are the best hiders)

Mon 5 Oct 2020 3:30 PM by Messerjockel

I love the potions.
Use them always when an assassin used vanish.
Very high rate of detection after vanish wears off and they are free RPS.
I recommended to everybody to have a bunch in inventory.

Flup, hib

Mon 5 Oct 2020 3:41 PM by Parole

I love them also. I exploit the hell out of these to find sneaks and kill them all. it is so easy to find them on both my visi and stealther characters, definitely the BEST thing Phoenix has ever done to help the game.

/sarcasm off

Mon 5 Oct 2020 3:53 PM by Messerjockel

Usually they have 5 charges, I would suggest to the Phoenix team to make them with 10 charges.
It would help to put the assassins in check which are usually hanging out around the dock or bridges or the path to the dock.

Flup, hib

Edited: Also to buy them with Gold and BP and not with claws only.

Mon 5 Oct 2020 4:15 PM by Delsaer

Because it is the 1 or 2 assassins that are out of control, not the hordes of archers in groups... 🤪

Mon 5 Oct 2020 4:19 PM by Messerjockel

Lucidity potions work on assassins and archers alike and I do not really see the problem by having an effective detection tool against stealth classes.

Flup, hib

Mon 5 Oct 2020 4:32 PM by Delsaer

I agree there should be some limited counter to stealth which I think lucidity does. 10 charges would be not a big deal if they did that. Though I do think the larger issue is stealth zergs of archers and mins (if alb). Compared to that assassins (especially solo) barely register.

Mon 5 Oct 2020 4:33 PM by Parole

Let's just take away stealth ability! Hooray

Mon 5 Oct 2020 4:41 PM by thirian24

Parole wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Oct 2020 4:33 PM
Let's just take away stealth ability! Hooray

Its for the best tbh

Mon 5 Oct 2020 5:28 PM by LolaEbola

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Oct 2020 4:41 PM
Parole wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Oct 2020 4:33 PM
Let's just take away stealth ability! Hooray

Its for the best tbh

I’m a full time assassin, and I really don’t find these to be a problem. I mean, stealth lore doesn’t really help them when you vanish and they run the opposite direction, which they usually seem to do. Vanishing is a mind game.

Mon 5 Oct 2020 7:48 PM by Messerjockel

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Oct 2020 4:41 PM
Parole wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Oct 2020 4:33 PM
Let's just take away stealth ability! Hooray

Its for the best tbh

I support that.
Remove stealth classes from Phoenix.
Will improve solo play and small men and siege warfare long term (more visible players because no stealth anymore around).

I hope the Phoenix team puts it up for vote soon.

Mon 5 Oct 2020 9:00 PM by thirian24

Messerjockel wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Oct 2020 7:48 PM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Oct 2020 4:41 PM
Parole wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Oct 2020 4:33 PM
Let's just take away stealth ability! Hooray

Its for the best tbh

I support that.
Remove stealth classes from Phoenix.
Will improve solo play and small men and siege warfare long term (more visible players because no stealth anymore around).

I hope the Phoenix team puts it up for vote soon.

Its true. It would really help the server health in the long run.

Mon 5 Oct 2020 9:34 PM by IdiamVonGawaine

Those potions are trash on a server that's supposed to pride itself on being pre-ToA.

Archers and stealthers group up because visi groups won't take them, and because they can't kill anything grouped with any semi-conscious non-afk healer.

If these pots were usable only by visi toons and gave them the same range as a specced stealther, ie, LOW, then there wouldn't be an issue. The way they work now FOR stealthers is a joke, however.

Mon 5 Oct 2020 11:31 PM by daytonchambers

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Oct 2020 9:00 PM
Messerjockel wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Oct 2020 7:48 PM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Oct 2020 4:41 PM
Parole wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Oct 2020 4:33 PM
Let's just take away stealth ability! Hooray

Its for the best tbh

I support that.
Remove stealth classes from Phoenix.
Will improve solo play and small men and siege warfare long term (more visible players because no stealth anymore around).

I hope the Phoenix team puts it up for vote soon.

Its true. It would really help the server health in the long run.

I get my poo pushed in by FGs of both sneaks and visibles when playing my Hunter constantly. Like twice or more per hour constantly. And that's playing a stealther where I can cower away as they roam by looking for a "fair fight"

If I was forced to play nothing but visible characters there would simply be no reason to continue here, and I would put this game to bed for good.

Mon 5 Oct 2020 11:51 PM by LolaEbola

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Oct 2020 11:31 PM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Oct 2020 9:00 PM
Messerjockel wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Oct 2020 7:48 PM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Oct 2020 4:41 PM
Parole wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Oct 2020 4:33 PM
Let's just take away stealth ability! Hooray

Its for the best tbh

I support that.
Remove stealth classes from Phoenix.
Will improve solo play and small men and siege warfare long term (more visible players because no stealth anymore around).

I hope the Phoenix team puts it up for vote soon.

Its true. It would really help the server health in the long run.

I get my poo pushed in by FGs of both sneaks and visibles when playing my Hunter constantly. Like twice or more per hour constantly. And that's playing a stealther where I can cower away as they roam by looking for a "fair fight"

If I was forced to play nothing but visible characters there would simply be no reason to continue here, and I would put this game to bed for good.

Totally agree. I only play one character, and it’s a stealther. If they removed all stealthers from the server (I’d be amazed if that ever happened), I’d really have no choice but to quit playing.

Tue 6 Oct 2020 12:33 AM by thirian24

Cool, we'd lose probably 50 people who just grief play anyways.

Tue 6 Oct 2020 10:09 AM by Messerjockel

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 12:33 AM
Cool, we'd lose probably 50 people who just grief play anyways.

I play a 8L5 ranger but that is not my only character and would play just another of my 50.
I would not leave and the most stealth player would not do it either....but some would and the good of the many is more important than the good of the few.
I say, put it up for a vote.

Flup, hib.

Tue 6 Oct 2020 10:37 AM by Stoertebecker

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 12:33 AM
Cool, we'd lose probably 50 people who just grief play anyways.

You`ll lose more players than just 50 in the long run, and i could say playing a visible OP class like reaver, minst, champ or skald just on a visible class.

What next, banning Black Flag from the server just because they play good with a op setup, roflstomping all other into nirwana?

Tue 6 Oct 2020 12:49 PM by thirian24

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 10:37 AM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 12:33 AM
Cool, we'd lose probably 50 people who just grief play anyways.

You`ll lose more players than just 50 in the long run, and i could say playing a visible OP class like reaver, minst, champ or skald just on a visible class.

What next, banning Black Flag from the server just because they play good with a op setup, roflstomping all other into nirwana?

Well, I don't think they'd ban Black Flag. Never seen them roflstomp anybody. Maybe they can ban you for spreading false stories though.

Tue 6 Oct 2020 2:28 PM by DinoTriz

Anyone who wants to ban stealth play from the game needs to reevaluate themselves.

Tue 6 Oct 2020 2:33 PM by ExcretusMaximus

DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 2:28 PM
Anyone who wants to ban stealth play from the game needs to reevaluate themselves.

Why? They bring absolutely nothing of value to the game and are intrinsically toxic to the population.

Tue 6 Oct 2020 2:39 PM by DinoTriz

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 2:33 PM
Why? They bring absolutely nothing of value to the game and are intrinsically toxic to the population.

How are they toxic? Because they kill people? Don't most classes kill people? Isn't that the point of the game?

Tue 6 Oct 2020 3:16 PM by Bradekes

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 2:33 PM
DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 2:28 PM
Anyone who wants to ban stealth play from the game needs to reevaluate themselves.

Why? They bring absolutely nothing of value to the game and are intrinsically toxic to the population.

Just because most aren't realm driven doesn't mean stealthers aren't bringing anything to the table. They help in keep fights & scouting for enemy locations. Stealthers can bring down casters on walls very easily. Archers play big roles in keep takes & defense. Their stealth helps them get shots off without being tab targeted

Tue 6 Oct 2020 3:17 PM by Stoertebecker

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 12:49 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 10:37 AM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 12:33 AM
Cool, we'd lose probably 50 people who just grief play anyways.

You`ll lose more players than just 50 in the long run, and i could say playing a visible OP class like reaver, minst, champ or skald just on a visible class.

What next, banning Black Flag from the server just because they play good with a op setup, roflstomping all other into nirwana?

Well, I don't think they'd ban Black Flag. Never seen them roflstomp anybody. Maybe they can ban you for spreading false stories though.

Said the Hib.... /yawn

Tue 6 Oct 2020 3:25 PM by DinoTriz

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 3:17 PM
Said the Hib.... /yawn

I wouldn't reply to him. He's just a troll and an instigator. Brings nothing to the table or conversation.

Tue 6 Oct 2020 3:28 PM by DinoTriz

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 3:16 PM
Just because most aren't realm driven doesn't mean stealthers aren't bringing anything to the table. They help in keep fights & scouting for enemy locations. Stealthers can bring down casters on walls very easily. Archers play big roles in keep takes & defense. Their stealth helps them get shots off without being tab targeted

Pfft...toxic behavior.

Climbing walls?? Who does that? Scoundrels do.

Remove them.....from the game altogether....rofl

Tue 6 Oct 2020 3:44 PM by Stoertebecker

DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 3:25 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 3:17 PM
Said the Hib.... /yawn

I wouldn't reply to him. He's just a troll and an instigator. Brings nothing to the table or conversation.

Max your reading skills, 20 +11 gets you nowhere.

Tue 6 Oct 2020 3:55 PM by DinoTriz

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 3:44 PM
Max your reading skills, 20 +11 gets you nowhere.

Please stop. We already play a 20 year old Elf Simulator.

No need to embarrass us more.

Tue 6 Oct 2020 4:36 PM by LolaEbola

This thread is absolutely blowing my mind. It’s hard to believe these calls to get rid of all stealth classes are even serious suggestions.

Daoc without stealthers just isn’t daoc. I can’t believe any of us would be in favor of such a huge change from what daoc has always been.

I’m a stealther, and I don’t particularly like the 8 man playstyle. But, I would never suggest getting rid of 8 mans, and forcing them all into the zerg. I don’t come on here and call them toxic for killing me and /dismissing me after.

They’re doing their thing, and I’m doing mine. Support.

I really don’t think the GMs would ever even consider such a change, but just in case one of you is reading this, and thinking about it, I beg of you not to delete my class.

Tue 6 Oct 2020 4:44 PM by Stoertebecker

DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 3:55 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 3:44 PM
Max your reading skills, 20 +11 gets you nowhere.

Please stop. We already play a 20 year old Elf Simulator.

No need to embarrass us more.

The last point of this discussion was about to ban Stealthers from this server, or not?

You`ll lose more players than just 50 in the long run, and i could say playing a visible OP class like reaver, minst, champ or skald just on a visible class.
What next, banning Black Flag from the server just because they play good with a op setup, roflstomping all other into nirwana?

What point of what i wrote in context to this point do you not understand.
You can`t ban 6 classes from the game because a handful ppl think it`s toxic +/or garbage gameplay. What comes next? Ban a complete FG for their toxic (for my taste) gameplay in early morning hours where there is no resistance/competition? That isn`t the way i would go.

If you want to thin out the already small DAoC Community ...go on. Don`t expect raising numbers in fall/winter, be lucky that we still have a halfway stable base of players, no matter what they play and how.

Tue 6 Oct 2020 4:56 PM by bigne88

I tried thia pot again today. Honestly it dosent work that well. You still have to step on a stealther to spot him.

Tue 6 Oct 2020 4:59 PM by bigne88

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 4:44 PM
DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 3:55 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 3:44 PM
Max your reading skills, 20 +11 gets you nowhere.

Please stop. We already play a 20 year old Elf Simulator.

No need to embarrass us more.

The last point of this discussion was about to ban Stealthers from this server, or not?

You`ll lose more players than just 50 in the long run, and i could say playing a visible OP class like reaver, minst, champ or skald just on a visible class.
What next, banning Black Flag from the server just because they play good with a op setup, roflstomping all other into nirwana?

What point of what i wrote in context to this point do you not understand.
You can`t ban 6 classes from the game because a handful ppl think it`s toxic +/or garbage gameplay. What comes next? Ban a complete FG for their toxic (for my taste) gameplay in early morning hours where there is no resistance/competition? That isn`t the way i would go.

If you want to thin out the already small DAoC Community ...go on. Don`t expect raising numbers in fall/winter, be lucky that we still have a halfway stable base of players, no matter what they play and how.

Stealthers are a plague. Period.
I dont wanna ban them, just make a ghetto server just for them. A server for visi players and a server for stealthers.
Or, last option, put a maximum limit to stealthers that can log in. Lets say a 5% of a realm population can be made by stealthers. Add a queue to it ofc.

Tue 6 Oct 2020 5:07 PM by DinoTriz

This thread encouraged me to create a stealther out of spite.

Maybe I'll do Infil and group with 7 Minsts.

Or create an SB and help Loola because they are the one player on this server that doesn't make me want to commit self-delete.

I look forward to losing to all of you.

Tue 6 Oct 2020 7:52 PM by Messerjockel

Camelot unchained does it right. They learned from the assassins design flaws in DAOC.

https://camelotunchained.com/v3/stretch-goals/stealth-unchained/

See goal 2

Tue 6 Oct 2020 7:59 PM by protege

DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 5:07 PM
This thread encouraged me to create a stealther out of spite.

Maybe I'll do Infil and group with 7 Minsts.

Or create an SB and help Loola because they are the one player on this server that doesn't make me want to commit self-delete.

I look forward to losing to all of you.

Yeah, try it out and see how long you last on one of those "OP stealthing classes"

Tue 6 Oct 2020 8:01 PM by DinoTriz

Messerjockel wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 7:52 PM
Camelot unchained does it right. They learned from the assassins design flaws in DAOC.

https://camelotunchained.com/v3/stretch-goals/stealth-unchained/

See goal 2

I actually like how Team Fortress did Spies.

Imagine Keep Fights, but stealthers could disguise themselves as an enemy realm player.

Dark Age of Team Fortress.

Tue 6 Oct 2020 9:03 PM by Stoertebecker

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 4:59 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 4:44 PM
DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 3:55 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 3:44 PM
Max your reading skills, 20 +11 gets you nowhere.

Please stop. We already play a 20 year old Elf Simulator.

No need to embarrass us more.

The last point of this discussion was about to ban Stealthers from this server, or not?

You`ll lose more players than just 50 in the long run, and i could say playing a visible OP class like reaver, minst, champ or skald just on a visible class.
What next, banning Black Flag from the server just because they play good with a op setup, roflstomping all other into nirwana?

What point of what i wrote in context to this point do you not understand.
You can`t ban 6 classes from the game because a handful ppl think it`s toxic +/or garbage gameplay. What comes next? Ban a complete FG for their toxic (for my taste) gameplay in early morning hours where there is no resistance/competition? That isn`t the way i would go.

If you want to thin out the already small DAoC Community ...go on. Don`t expect raising numbers in fall/winter, be lucky that we still have a halfway stable base of players, no matter what they play and how.

Stealthers are a plague. Period.
I dont wanna ban them, just make a ghetto server just for them. A server for visi players and a server for stealthers.
Or, last option, put a maximum limit to stealthers that can log in. Lets say a 5% of a realm population can be made by stealthers. Add a queue to it ofc.

Blame the developers of the original game

Btw, currently ~8% sneaks of the total population. Would be boring without all the sneaky rp`s

Tue 6 Oct 2020 9:06 PM by Stoertebecker

Messerjockel wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 7:52 PM
Camelot unchained does it right. They learned from the assassins design flaws in DAOC.

https://camelotunchained.com/v3/stretch-goals/stealth-unchained/

See goal 2

There will be a form of stealth/camuflage, but not perma. jfyi

They said the same about it ESO *it`ll not be possible to perma stealth*,

Tue 6 Oct 2020 9:59 PM by thirian24

Go and vote for removing stealth from assassins and archers. Let you voice be heard.

Tue 6 Oct 2020 10:09 PM by DinoTriz

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 9:59 PM
Go and vote for removing stealth from assassins and archers. Let you voice be heard.

Do you even play this game?

Tue 6 Oct 2020 10:27 PM by Lokkjim

LolaEbola wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 4:36 PM
This thread is absolutely blowing my mind. It’s hard to believe these calls to get rid of all stealth classes are even serious suggestions.

Daoc without stealthers just isn’t daoc. I can’t believe any of us would be in favor of such a huge change from what daoc has always been.

I’m a stealther, and I don’t particularly like the 8 man playstyle. But, I would never suggest getting rid of 8 mans, and forcing them all into the zerg. I don’t come on here and call them toxic for killing me and /dismissing me after.

They’re doing their thing, and I’m doing mine. Support.

I really don’t think the GMs would ever even consider such a change, but just in case one of you is reading this, and thinking about it, I beg of you not to delete my class.

Look at it this way Lola, if they are considering it, they better be ready to pay out the cost of an assassin template and give you a free RR equivalent character.

Heck, all the solo assassins would just roll a minstrel or a skald and go back to soloing. Then everyone will complain about them.

Tue 6 Oct 2020 10:39 PM by DinoTriz

Stealthers are great sources of information when they're on your side and a great way to keep you on your toes when they're your enemy.

Imagine roaming the Frontier without feeling a threat around every corner.

Sounds boring. Smells weak.

JFK once said (yes, I'm quoting a president) "Do not pray for easier lives. Pray to be stronger men."

Wed 7 Oct 2020 1:55 AM by bigne88

DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 10:39 PM
Stealthers are great sources of information when they're on your side and a great way to keep you on your toes when they're your enemy.

Imagine roaming the Frontier without feeling a threat around every corner.

Sounds boring. Smells weak.

JFK once said (yes, I'm quoting a president) "Do not pray for easier lives. Pray to be stronger men."

Quite the opposite: more visible players around, more parties, more action.
If 1/3 of the server is playing hide and seek is crap.
Stealthers adds nothing of value, quite the opposite, they just grief on other players gameplay. They are made to kill the fun of visible classes.

Wed 7 Oct 2020 3:08 AM by DinoTriz

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 1:55 AM
They are made to kill the fun of visible classes.

Those evil devs! Why would they create such monsters?? This proves it...stealthers shouldn't exist.

You've convinced me. Man, how was I so wrong?

At last the truth comes out. Stealthers were created to ruin the fun of others. Now we should go after snipers in first person shooter games. I bet they were created to ruin other peoples fun as well! It's a conspiracy!

Wed 7 Oct 2020 3:26 AM by Messerjockel

I agree with bigne88.

Stealth classes cause a lot of grief. Tonight 9pm EST 8 alb stealth shut down dc dock.
Not sure they were grouped or just a convention by accident.
Further not sure they left because no hib came from dc anymore, means no RPs or if they were killed.
And yes, hib could have ported to nged and take the boat from there but some like me, logged, left for 1 hour and came back or logged for good for the night.
Less action means we all lost.

Flup, hib ranger.

Wed 7 Oct 2020 3:41 AM by Lokkjim

Messerjockel wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 3:26 AM
I agree with bigne88.

Stealth classes cause a lot of grief. Tonight 9pm EST 8 alb stealth shut down dc dock.
Not sure they were grouped or just a convention by accident.
Further not sure they left because no hib came from dc anymore, means no RPs or if they were killed.
And yes, hib could have ported to nged and take the boat from there but some like me, logged, left for 1 hour and came back or logged for good for the night.
Less action means we all lost.

Flup, hib ranger.

Doesn't feel good when it's happening to your realm, does it? Heck, Midgard deals with stealthers camping their docks every day and their border dock is probably the worst. Just put dock guards back at the docks and buff the stealth detection, but also give some sort of notification or whatever to the stealther that they are debuffed because of another same realm stealther in the area.

Wed 7 Oct 2020 7:52 AM by Stoertebecker

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 1:55 AM
DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Oct 2020 10:39 PM
Stealthers are great sources of information when they're on your side and a great way to keep you on your toes when they're your enemy.

Imagine roaming the Frontier without feeling a threat around every corner.

Sounds boring. Smells weak.

JFK once said (yes, I'm quoting a president) "Do not pray for easier lives. Pray to be stronger men."

Quite the opposite: more visible players around, more parties, more action.
If 1/3 of the server is playing hide and seek is crap.
Stealthers adds nothing of value, quite the opposite, they just grief on other players gameplay. They are made to kill the fun of visible classes.

Stfu, it isn`t 1/3 of the server. It was ~8% at 8pm yesterday.
And who said that those players would even play on Phoenix without stealthers?
Each player on Phoenix has a value, and each player is a lost once he`s gone. Or do you think we have a endless pool of new players? What stuff are you smokin?

Wed 7 Oct 2020 8:22 AM by Noashakra

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 7:52 AM
Stfu, it isn`t 1/3 of the server. It was ~8% at 8pm yesterday.
And who said that those players would even play on Phoenix without stealthers?
Each player on Phoenix has a value, and each player is a lost once he`s gone. Or do you think we have a endless pool of new players? What stuff are you smokin?

It's between 10 and 20% max. And a good amount of them play in the BG...

Wed 7 Oct 2020 8:40 AM by bigne88

DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 3:08 AM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 1:55 AM
They are made to kill the fun of visible classes.

Those evil devs! Why would they create such monsters?? This proves it...stealthers shouldn't exist.

You've convinced me. Man, how was I so wrong?

At last the truth comes out. Stealthers were created to ruin the fun of others. Now we should go after snipers in first person shooter games. I bet they were created to ruin other peoples fun as well! It's a conspiracy!

Have you ever played a shooter?
Nobody likes campers. Nobody.
Amirite?

Ill repeat again: nothing wrong with stealther class per se. Is the amount of players doing so; try to get this please. It is the visible player count that matters, for the health of the server, for obvious reasons. If the reasons are not so obvious for you, we can discuss them together.

Wed 7 Oct 2020 8:44 AM by bigne88

Lokkjim wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 3:41 AM
Messerjockel wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 3:26 AM
I agree with bigne88.

Stealth classes cause a lot of grief. Tonight 9pm EST 8 alb stealth shut down dc dock.
Not sure they were grouped or just a convention by accident.
Further not sure they left because no hib came from dc anymore, means no RPs or if they were killed.
And yes, hib could have ported to nged and take the boat from there but some like me, logged, left for 1 hour and came back or logged for good for the night.
Less action means we all lost.

Flup, hib ranger.

Doesn't feel good when it's happening to your realm, does it? Heck, Midgard deals with stealthers camping their docks every day and their border dock is probably the worst. Just put dock guards back at the docks and buff the stealth detection, but also give some sort of notification or whatever to the stealther that they are debuffed because of another same realm stealther in the area.

Yea and than what happens if the doc is camped?
The army of stealthers goes somewhere else, probably killing expers.
Agree with guards and debuff.

Wed 7 Oct 2020 11:02 AM by DinoTriz

Here's something that no one has mentioned so far:

Stealthers are the counter to casters.

If you get rid of the spiders, you'll just have more misquitos.

Casters, who are already dominate in NF, will be MUCH worse if we got rid of Stealthers. People already joke that this is Dark Age of Casters.

What do you think will happen after banning Stealthers??

No one will play melee characters. You might as well turn the game into Call of Duty with everyone shooting each other with spells.

Sounds so lame. Who would want to play that?

Probably you guys because I imagine every one of you is a caster.

Guess what? If stealthers are camping a dock, tell your realmmates. Stealthers aren't invincible, ya know. Instead of trying to ban them, at least try something.

You're not entitled to your perfect form of gameplay served up on a silver platter.

I guarantee if you put a little effort in and overcome whatever obstacle you'll be more fufilled than whatever world you're asking for here.

Wed 7 Oct 2020 12:06 PM by Messerjockel

DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 11:02 AM
Here's something that no one has mentioned so far:

Stealthers are the counter to casters.

If you get rid of the spiders, you'll just have more misquitos.

Casters, who are already dominate in NF, will be MUCH worse if we got rid of Stealthers. People already joke that this is Dark Age of Casters.

What do you think will happen after banning Stealthers??

No one will play melee characters. You might as well turn the game into Call of Duty with everyone shooting each other with spells.

Sounds so lame. Who would want to play that?

Probably you guys because I imagine every one of you is a caster.

Guess what? If stealthers are camping a dock, tell your realmmates. Stealthers aren't invincible, ya know. Instead of trying to ban them, at least try something.

You're not entitled to your perfect form of gameplay served up on a silver platter.

I guarantee if you put a little effort in and overcome whatever obstacle you'll be more fufilled than whatever world you're asking for here.

I called for a hib grp with lucidity potions in region but none was close and we had anyway only 1/2 of the alb and 1/3 of the mid players in the frontier.
As said, I logged after a while and came back later.

Flup,hib

Wed 7 Oct 2020 12:32 PM by Tashkent

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 1:55 AM
Quite the opposite: more visible players around, more parties, more action.
If 1/3 of the server is playing hide and seek is crap.
Stealthers adds nothing of value, quite the opposite, they just grief on other players gameplay. They are made to kill the fun of visible classes.

Killing the fun of others can do visibles just as good as stealthers. The visibles I've seen tend to avoid equal numbers. Everyone seems to prefer adding and farming docks/level spots. Where's the value in there?

Wed 7 Oct 2020 12:44 PM by bigne88

Tashkent wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 12:32 PM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 1:55 AM
Quite the opposite: more visible players around, more parties, more action.
If 1/3 of the server is playing hide and seek is crap.
Stealthers adds nothing of value, quite the opposite, they just grief on other players gameplay. They are made to kill the fun of visible classes.
Killing the fun of others can do visibles just as good as stealthers. The visibles I've seen tend to avoid equal numbers. Everyone seems to prefer adding and farming docks/level spots. Where's the value in there?

Adding fights is another matter, yea. But hey, you can interact, both as friend and as enemy, with visible players: they bring value while exping, you can party with in pvp, you can decide how to engage the fight.
Vs. stealthers it isnt bilateral the interaction, but one way only. This is a problem, for a small server.

Visible class has bilateral (trilateral, since is 3 realms) interaction with each other and the success of the single relays on the others. Every single visible player is a content creator for himself and all the other players, including stealtherals.

Stealthers dosent give anything to the others, because obviously is quite impossible to interact with an invisible person, unless is too late.

And I can be ok with meler stealthers, because they take it close and personal; but archers....jeeeeez, they are the stereotype of a leecher: he dosent want to play with others bevause loves to hide from everyone, but also he cant solo because the class is subpar (except rangers maybe) compared to all the others, so all he can do is sit on a bridge tower and leech on his realm mates fights.
Bleah.

Sorry shit englando

Wed 7 Oct 2020 1:05 PM by DinoTriz

Wanting to remove Stealthers because they don't add value to PVE play sounds pretty vindictive. You could add PVE utility, like melee style CC, like how Rogues in WoW use Sap, etc. It's more risky than applying a mez, but lasts longer or something. Maybe a smoke bomb or something that is a PBAOE miss chance (like Dirty Tricks). Again, these could be PVE only abilities.

Stealthers could bring a different type of value to RVR as well. They were originally the only ones who could climb walls. Maybe give them Siege Wrecker, so they can sabotage siege equipment.

There are a ton of options you could go with. A lot of Stealthers just want to scratch that stealth itch and giving them those options may pull them off of less interesting things like camping bridges and docks.

Wed 7 Oct 2020 1:31 PM by Stoertebecker

Good that alb fg`s are not running with a scout as a peeler

Wed 7 Oct 2020 1:39 PM by DinoTriz

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 1:31 PM
Good that alb fg`s are not running with a scout as a peeler

If it was any good it would be current meta by now.

Armsman runs circles around Scout when it comes to peels.

Wed 7 Oct 2020 2:20 PM by bigne88

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 1:31 PM
Good that alb fg`s are not running with a scout as a peeler

Many 8v8 tried it, me included. It is not bad, for sure, and is a nice meme. But an armsman does the peel and the tank way better.

Wed 7 Oct 2020 2:24 PM by bigne88

DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 1:05 PM
Wanting to remove Stealthers because they don't add value to PVE play sounds pretty vindictive. You could add PVE utility, like melee style CC, like how Rogues in WoW use Sap, etc. It's more risky than applying a mez, but lasts longer or something. Maybe a smoke bomb or something that is a PBAOE miss chance (like Dirty Tricks). Again, these could be PVE only abilities.

Stealthers could bring a different type of value to RVR as well. They were originally the only ones who could climb walls. Maybe give them Siege Wrecker, so they can sabotage siege equipment.

There are a ton of options you could go with. A lot of Stealthers just want to scratch that stealth itch and giving them those options may pull them off of less interesting things like camping bridges and docks.

Dont get me wrong, I dont wanna devs removing stealthers, just reducing their numbers (maybe giving visi classes more appeal).
I feel that many people resolve on playing a stealther because they are super casual (or super edgy) and dosent have the time or the will (or just lazy) to build a team wirh random people, so for them is easyer to just log and have a self sufficent class to play.
Problem is: if we all behave like that, is the end of this game.

Im completly agree on giving stealthers sone tools to be more appealing and usefull in pve (exping and whatnot).

Wed 7 Oct 2020 7:42 PM by LolaEbola

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 2:24 PM
DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 1:05 PM
Wanting to remove Stealthers because they don't add value to PVE play sounds pretty vindictive. You could add PVE utility, like melee style CC, like how Rogues in WoW use Sap, etc. It's more risky than applying a mez, but lasts longer or something. Maybe a smoke bomb or something that is a PBAOE miss chance (like Dirty Tricks). Again, these could be PVE only abilities.

Stealthers could bring a different type of value to RVR as well. They were originally the only ones who could climb walls. Maybe give them Siege Wrecker, so they can sabotage siege equipment.

There are a ton of options you could go with. A lot of Stealthers just want to scratch that stealth itch and giving them those options may pull them off of less interesting things like camping bridges and docks.

Dont get me wrong, I dont wanna devs removing stealthers, just reducing their numbers (maybe giving visi classes more appeal).
I feel that many people resolve on playing a stealther because they are super casual (or super edgy) and dosent have the time or the will (or just lazy) to build a team wirh random people, so for them is easyer to just log and have a self sufficent class to play.
Problem is: if we all behave like that, is the end of this game.

Im completly agree on giving stealthers sone tools to be more appealing and usefull in pve (exping and whatnot).

I’m a full time stealther, and also one of only a handful of people in Midgard who regularly lead BGs. Not everybody plays the same. My playstyle doesn’t fit into a little box, and I’d argue my stealther contributes to the realm.

Just my two cents.

Wed 7 Oct 2020 8:22 PM by Stoertebecker

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 2:24 PM
DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 1:05 PM
Wanting to remove Stealthers because they don't add value to PVE play sounds pretty vindictive. You could add PVE utility, like melee style CC, like how Rogues in WoW use Sap, etc. It's more risky than applying a mez, but lasts longer or something. Maybe a smoke bomb or something that is a PBAOE miss chance (like Dirty Tricks). Again, these could be PVE only abilities.

Stealthers could bring a different type of value to RVR as well. They were originally the only ones who could climb walls. Maybe give them Siege Wrecker, so they can sabotage siege equipment.

There are a ton of options you could go with. A lot of Stealthers just want to scratch that stealth itch and giving them those options may pull them off of less interesting things like camping bridges and docks.

I feel that many people resolve on playing a stealther because they are super casual (or super edgy) and dosent have the time or the will (or just lazy) to build a team wirh random people, so for them is easyer to just log and have a self sufficent class to play.

Those players usually run with the Zerg. If you take playing a stealther serious you`ll need time to play.
Building a pickup group in eu morning hours ends up getting steamrolled by a hib-tank fg or a alb caster fg, not only once...multiple times. Not so many options left if you don`t wanna donate rp`s on a silver plate. One option is playing an archers or an assasin, another option is play something else.

Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:48 PM by bluefalcon420

Hi what is the counter to these again? Oh wait there t one because mez poisons and tangle snare (other TOA abilities were left out)

People bitch so hard about sneaks despite us being 5 shot by most things.

Not all of us stealth zerg, but we're all punished for it.

Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:56 PM by bluefalcon420

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 8:40 AM
DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 3:08 AM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 1:55 AM
They are made to kill the fun of visible classes.

Those evil devs! Why would they create such monsters?? This proves it...stealthers shouldn't exist.

You've convinced me. Man, how was I so wrong?

At last the truth comes out. Stealthers were created to ruin the fun of others. Now we should go after snipers in first person shooter games. I bet they were created to ruin other peoples fun as well! It's a conspiracy!

Have you ever played a shooter?
Nobody likes campers. Nobody.
Amirite?

Ill repeat again: nothing wrong with stealther class per se. Is the amount of players doing so; try to get this please. It is the visible player count that matters, for the health of the server, for obvious reasons. If the reasons are not so obvious for you, we can discuss them together.

You chose to put bard and vw in your sig. Get out of here, griefer. If you've ever had problems with sneaks it's because you suck not because they're op.