Shaman RA's

Started 21 Apr 2020
by airo
in Midgard
What RA's do you get for a sham and in what order. Ill be doing RvR and PvE so are there essentials?
Fri 24 Apr 2020 9:18 AM by Laron
LW+Tireless, MCL, Purge II, them MoArcane until your spec buffs are (almost) capped. If you are cave speced, consider MoFocus. Ichor is also nice to have.
Sun 13 Sep 2020 12:44 PM by MacPrior
How much of MaArkane for caped buffs?
Sun 13 Sep 2020 1:32 PM by ExcretusMaximus
No need for Longwind or Tireless, just red endo yourself, it's literally one more conc than yellow and saves you two RSP.

Must haves are Purge 2, MCL 1, MoC 1, Ichor 1, though I would suggest Purge 3 as a baseline.

I found Aug Acuity 3 a must in order to buff everyone in my group, but we ran multiple casters when I was playing on Midgard, if you're pure tank you won't need quite as much.

To cap your yellow buffs you need MoArcane 9, this will give you 92 s/c, 93 d/q, 91 acuity; whether that is worth it to you or not is a personal decision.

Vehement Renewal is great, but only at level 3, before that it's not effective and after that it's too expensive for the return IMO.

Passives are always nice (dex, MoArt, etc) but I found no need for them.
Sun 13 Sep 2020 2:22 PM by MacPrior
Nice! Thanks, Gwymn, thanks.
And what spec would you suggest to take for a group shaman with a MoArc 9 ?
Sun 13 Sep 2020 11:45 PM by boridi
MacPrior wrote:
Sun 13 Sep 2020 2:22 PM
Nice! Thanks, Gwymn, thanks.
And what spec would you suggest to take for a group shaman with a MoArc 9 ?
43 aug, 27 cave, rest mend
Mon 14 Sep 2020 1:15 AM by Freedomcall
Getting Tireless, at least, is good imo.

I've once tested how many buffs shammy can do(race : koby / starting stat : +15dex, +10pie / spec : 43 aug, 27cave, 18mend)
1. 8 * s/c & d/q + 8 * red endu + 1 * base con & dex
2. 8 * s/c & d/q + 8 * red endu + 1 * base dex + 1 * red acuity
3. 8 * s/c & d/q + 8 * red endu + 2 * red acutiy
4. 8 * s/c & d/q + 2 * red endu + 6 yellow endu + 3 * red acuity
5. 8 * s/c & d/q + 3 * red endu + 1 yellow endu + 4 * red acuity
6. 8 * s/c & d/q + 1 * yellow endu + 5 * red acuity

What can you see from these results?
1. If you are a full tank grp with no cloth caster, you can base con/dex yourself as well.
2. If you have 1 caster in grp, you can base dex yourself and get base con from aug healer.
3. If you have 2 casters in grp, just ask healers for your bases.
4. This is an interesting part. If you have 3 casters in grp, giving yellow endu to non-melees enables you to spec/endu them all.
Your grp will have 2 healers+you as a basis anyway, so there are exactly 6 non-melees(2heals+1sham+3caster) for yellow endu.
5. Actually having 4 casters in grp will be really rare imo, unless you zerg.
You can give endu to 4 people at max. Just tell the others(choose non-melees) to use endu pot.
6. 5 casters.. only happens in zerg. Give yellow endu to yourself if you don't have LW and Just tell others to use endu pot.
Just explain why you can't give endu to them. They will understand.

I think 1~4 is the cases you will meet mostly, and I suggest you make it a habit to give yellow endu to supporters/casters and red endu to melees.
And if you want to perma sprint with yellow endu, you need Tireless.
Mon 14 Sep 2020 3:08 AM by ExcretusMaximus
MacPrior wrote:
Sun 13 Sep 2020 2:22 PM
Nice! Thanks, Gwymn, thanks.
And what spec would you suggest to take for a group shaman with a MoArc 9 ?

MoArc 9, there's only one spec for Aug, and that's 43 (some will tell you to stop a 42, don't listen to them, you want that red heat resist).

From there, you want either 27 Sub, or 31, your preference is all that matters as both bring value to the table.

The rest in Mending, of course.
Wed 16 Sep 2020 2:04 AM by MacPrior
I dont know but I think a group shaman needs 27 in cave. His job is rupt and desease. With 27 cave a shaman will have all you can need for rupt. actually it is mostly ae root. Its grey, but cost very little power, for pets it is still enough and it rupts all players even by resist.

In zerg you can rupt with ae dot.

In mand for a shami will be usefull lot if mend -> more then 33 for quick cheap single heal or just 7 for cure desease and dot.
With 27 cave and 7 Mend still enough points for 46 Aug, its strg/ con in red, wich you dont need with a mastery of Arcane.

But 45 is a red resi buff for Cold. On other server cold is quite not an issue for mid, but on Phoenix a wizzard got cold debuff. I play also a wizzi and theurg and in both cases we use to use cold debuff 50% and cold nuke with wizards and theurgists.

So, why I dont take 45 aug as a shami, this provides enough points over for 27 cave and 12 mend.
Wed 16 Sep 2020 8:03 AM by inoeth
MacPrior wrote:
Wed 16 Sep 2020 2:04 AM
I dont know but I think a group shaman needs 27 in cave. His job is rupt and desease. With 27 cave a shaman will have all you can need for rupt. actually it is mostly ae root. Its grey, but cost very little power, for pets it is still enough and it rupts all players even by resist.

In zerg you can rupt with ae dot.

In mand for a shami will be usefull lot if mend -> more then 33 for quick cheap single heal or just 7 for cure desease and dot.
With 27 cave and 7 Mend still enough points for 46 Aug, its strg/ con in red, wich you dont need with a mastery of Arcane.

But 45 is a red resi buff for Cold. On other server cold is quite not an issue for mid, but on Phoenix a wizzard got cold debuff. I play also a wizzi and theurg and in both cases we use to use cold debuff 50% and cold nuke with wizards and theurgists.

So, why I dont take 45 aug as a shami, this provides enough points over for 27 cave and 12 mend.

this might be interesting for zerg ppl, in 8v8 wizzards are not a thing
Wed 23 Sep 2020 2:27 PM by Kappu
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Sun 13 Sep 2020 1:32 PM
No need for Longwind or Tireless, just red endo yourself, it's literally one more conc than yellow and saves you two RSP.

Must haves are Purge 2, MCL 1, MoC 1, Ichor 1, though I would suggest Purge 3 as a baseline.

I found Aug Acuity 3 a must in order to buff everyone in my group, but we ran multiple casters when I was playing on Midgard, if you're pure tank you won't need quite as much.

To cap your yellow buffs you need MoArcane 9, this will give you 92 s/c, 93 d/q, 91 acuity; whether that is worth it to you or not is a personal decision.

Vehement Renewal is great, but only at level 3, before that it's not effective and after that it's too expensive for the return IMO.

Passives are always nice (dex, MoArt, etc) but I found no need for them.

You know how much MOArcane you need to cap red buffs I'm just curious!

I also think on this server that people wanting red/capped buffs really underutilizes Shaman as another healing class, but that is my opinion. I don't think going 27 carve for a shit AE disease is worth it... Might be worth specing for AE root but I don't know.
Wed 23 Sep 2020 2:47 PM by DJ2000
moArc 3 gives u Red spec S/C of 91 and Red spec D/Q of 92 (93 is cap for both) which is enough in my opinion.
That also caps Base Dex at moArc2 to 62. while Base Con would be at 58 with moArc3
So a net value of +149 Str/con (-6 to cap) and +154 D/Q (-1 to cap) as the Cap for combined buffs is +155 for Players.

moArc4 would actually cap Red specs at 93. (Base con would be at 59)
So +152 Str/Con (-3 to cap) and +155 D/Q for the combined buffs at MoArc4.

FYI:
You would need moArc6 to cap the last Base Con to 62, even though moArc5 would suffice with 61.
Wed 23 Sep 2020 3:09 PM by Freedomcall
Kappu wrote:
Wed 23 Sep 2020 2:27 PM
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Sun 13 Sep 2020 1:32 PM
No need for Longwind or Tireless, just red endo yourself, it's literally one more conc than yellow and saves you two RSP.

Must haves are Purge 2, MCL 1, MoC 1, Ichor 1, though I would suggest Purge 3 as a baseline.

I found Aug Acuity 3 a must in order to buff everyone in my group, but we ran multiple casters when I was playing on Midgard, if you're pure tank you won't need quite as much.

To cap your yellow buffs you need MoArcane 9, this will give you 92 s/c, 93 d/q, 91 acuity; whether that is worth it to you or not is a personal decision.

Vehement Renewal is great, but only at level 3, before that it's not effective and after that it's too expensive for the return IMO.

Passives are always nice (dex, MoArt, etc) but I found no need for them.

You know how much MOArcane you need to cap red buffs I'm just curious!

I also think on this server that people wanting red/capped buffs really underutilizes Shaman as another healing class, but that is my opinion. I don't think going 27 carve for a shit AE disease is worth it... Might be worth specing for AE root but I don't know.

PBAE insta disease is one of the best rupt/disease tool of this game.
It's worth for solo farm, solo rvr, small, 8man, zerg.... any kind of gameplay.
If you are not gonna use it, what about playing another class?
Wed 23 Sep 2020 3:21 PM by Kappu
Freedomcall wrote:
Wed 23 Sep 2020 3:09 PM
Kappu wrote:
Wed 23 Sep 2020 2:27 PM
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Sun 13 Sep 2020 1:32 PM
No need for Longwind or Tireless, just red endo yourself, it's literally one more conc than yellow and saves you two RSP.

Must haves are Purge 2, MCL 1, MoC 1, Ichor 1, though I would suggest Purge 3 as a baseline.

I found Aug Acuity 3 a must in order to buff everyone in my group, but we ran multiple casters when I was playing on Midgard, if you're pure tank you won't need quite as much.

To cap your yellow buffs you need MoArcane 9, this will give you 92 s/c, 93 d/q, 91 acuity; whether that is worth it to you or not is a personal decision.

Vehement Renewal is great, but only at level 3, before that it's not effective and after that it's too expensive for the return IMO.

Passives are always nice (dex, MoArt, etc) but I found no need for them.

You know how much MOArcane you need to cap red buffs I'm just curious!

I also think on this server that people wanting red/capped buffs really underutilizes Shaman as another healing class, but that is my opinion. I don't think going 27 carve for a shit AE disease is worth it... Might be worth specing for AE root but I don't know.

PBAE insta disease is one of the best rupt/disease tool of this game.
It's worth for solo farm, solo rvr, small, 8man, zerg.... any kind of gameplay.
If you are not gonna use it, what about playing another class?

I completely disagree you are the primary buffing class of your group and to put yourself in a situation where you are close enough to die is an absurd idea (until they give snare effects immunity)... You have other tools at your disposal with range to interrupt people and a complete spec line you are disregarding for a single spell on an 8-second recast timer. If you spec into Mend you have both interrupts and heals that are actually effective and can play similar to a Pac Healer.

I could say the same thing about not specing in Mend if you aren't going to use it why not play another class... I'll take a 200-280 point heal over an instant timer-based ability that puts me at risk which would potentially lose my group a fight by being unbuffed.
Wed 23 Sep 2020 3:27 PM by Kappu
DJ2000 wrote:
Wed 23 Sep 2020 2:47 PM
moArc 3 gives u Red spec S/C of 91 and Red spec D/Q of 92 (93 is cap for both) which is enough in my opinion.
That also caps Base Dex at moArc2 to 62. while Base Con would be at 58 with moArc3
So a net value of +149 Str/con (-6 to cap) and +154 D/Q (-1 to cap) as the Cap for combined buffs is +155 for Players.

moArc4 would actually cap Red specs at 93. (Base con would be at 59)
So +152 Str/Con (-3 to cap) and +155 D/Q for the combined buffs at MoArc4.

FYI:
You would need moArc6 to cap the last Base Con to 62, even though moArc5 would suffice with 61.

My plan is to spec 42 Aug for Red Acuity. I'm going to go MoA5 so that I can have some of the other toys available. Shaman is a really drab class without buff shears which kinda sucks.
Wed 23 Sep 2020 3:52 PM by Freedomcall
Kappu wrote:
Wed 23 Sep 2020 3:21 PM
Freedomcall wrote:
Wed 23 Sep 2020 3:09 PM
Kappu wrote:
Wed 23 Sep 2020 2:27 PM
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Sun 13 Sep 2020 1:32 PM
No need for Longwind or Tireless, just red endo yourself, it's literally one more conc than yellow and saves you two RSP.

Must haves are Purge 2, MCL 1, MoC 1, Ichor 1, though I would suggest Purge 3 as a baseline.

I found Aug Acuity 3 a must in order to buff everyone in my group, but we ran multiple casters when I was playing on Midgard, if you're pure tank you won't need quite as much.

To cap your yellow buffs you need MoArcane 9, this will give you 92 s/c, 93 d/q, 91 acuity; whether that is worth it to you or not is a personal decision.

Vehement Renewal is great, but only at level 3, before that it's not effective and after that it's too expensive for the return IMO.

Passives are always nice (dex, MoArt, etc) but I found no need for them.

You know how much MOArcane you need to cap red buffs I'm just curious!

I also think on this server that people wanting red/capped buffs really underutilizes Shaman as another healing class, but that is my opinion. I don't think going 27 carve for a shit AE disease is worth it... Might be worth specing for AE root but I don't know.

PBAE insta disease is one of the best rupt/disease tool of this game.
It's worth for solo farm, solo rvr, small, 8man, zerg.... any kind of gameplay.
If you are not gonna use it, what about playing another class?

I completely disagree you are the primary buffing class of your group and to put yourself in a situation where you are close enough to die is an absurd idea (until they give snare effects immunity)... You have other tools at your disposal with range to interrupt people and a complete spec line you are disregarding for a single spell on an 8-second recast timer. If you spec into Mend you have both interrupts and heals that are actually effective and can play similar to a Pac Healer.

I could say the same thing about not specing in Mend if you aren't going to use it why not play another class... I'll take a 200-280 point heal over an instant timer-based ability that puts me at risk which would potentially lose my group a fight by being unbuffed.

Yeah right, shamans can play similar to Pac healer without 2 insta heals, cure NS and spread heals.
And you are just assuming about the cases when you are never being interrupted.
I didn't say you should rush into the enemy line right ahead and use pbae disease every 8 seconds.
But even if you try your best to play safe, some pets or melees will start to chase you and you will be forced to run around.
Losing the insta rupting tool while running is worse than losing your ability to heal.

Another thing is, what abilities do you get by speccing mend?
It's mostly about higher major heal and a bit better base grp heals.
Grp regen buff? It is not even a HoT and doesn't worth it using while in combat.
Wed 23 Sep 2020 3:56 PM by DJ2000
I think the Shaman Class is fine as is, obviously once people have seen or played other versions of this class, it can feel a bit lacking. But i think its actually to its benefit to not be overloaded like the Healer class.
Its helps to be more efficient playing as a Shaman to have rather fewer Tools, but those being are very efficient ones. If anything i feel "missing" on my qBar in certain situations is a PR, to be self-sufficient when RB a fallen member. But having to coordinate with a (Aug) Healer is not really all that bad or tough.

It really depends on each and everyone's playstyle, i wouldn't call something straight up wrong if it varies a bit from my own. So shouldn't you dismiss others.
Wed 23 Sep 2020 4:05 PM by Kappu
Freedomcall wrote:
Wed 23 Sep 2020 3:52 PM
Kappu wrote:
Wed 23 Sep 2020 3:21 PM
Freedomcall wrote:
Wed 23 Sep 2020 3:09 PM
Kappu wrote:
Wed 23 Sep 2020 2:27 PM
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Sun 13 Sep 2020 1:32 PM
No need for Longwind or Tireless, just red endo yourself, it's literally one more conc than yellow and saves you two RSP.

Must haves are Purge 2, MCL 1, MoC 1, Ichor 1, though I would suggest Purge 3 as a baseline.

I found Aug Acuity 3 a must in order to buff everyone in my group, but we ran multiple casters when I was playing on Midgard, if you're pure tank you won't need quite as much.

To cap your yellow buffs you need MoArcane 9, this will give you 92 s/c, 93 d/q, 91 acuity; whether that is worth it to you or not is a personal decision.

Vehement Renewal is great, but only at level 3, before that it's not effective and after that it's too expensive for the return IMO.

Passives are always nice (dex, MoArt, etc) but I found no need for them.

You know how much MOArcane you need to cap red buffs I'm just curious!

I also think on this server that people wanting red/capped buffs really underutilizes Shaman as another healing class, but that is my opinion. I don't think going 27 carve for a shit AE disease is worth it... Might be worth specing for AE root but I don't know.

PBAE insta disease is one of the best rupt/disease tool of this game.
It's worth for solo farm, solo rvr, small, 8man, zerg.... any kind of gameplay.
If you are not gonna use it, what about playing another class?

I completely disagree you are the primary buffing class of your group and to put yourself in a situation where you are close enough to die is an absurd idea (until they give snare effects immunity)... You have other tools at your disposal with range to interrupt people and a complete spec line you are disregarding for a single spell on an 8-second recast timer. If you spec into Mend you have both interrupts and heals that are actually effective and can play similar to a Pac Healer.

I could say the same thing about not specing in Mend if you aren't going to use it why not play another class... I'll take a 200-280 point heal over an instant timer-based ability that puts me at risk which would potentially lose my group a fight by being unbuffed.

Yeah right, shamans can play similar to Pac healer without 2 insta heals, cure NS and spread heals.
And you are just assuming about the cases when you are never being interrupted.
I didn't say you should rush into the enemy line right ahead and use pbae disease every 8 seconds.
But even if you try your best to play safe, some pets or melees will start to chase you and you will be forced to run around.
Losing the insta rupting tool while running is worse than losing your ability to heal.

Another thing is, what abilities do you get by speccing mend?
It's mostly about higher major heal and a bit better base grp heals.
Grp regen buff? It is not even a HoT and doesn't worth it using while in combat.

The idea that you have to have the same abilities as a Pac Healer to play like one is absurd... but you can assist with decent heals and interrupts which is what their job is so the playstyle is similar.

You spec into 27 Cave and all you are getting is a grey AE root and the disease. I'm not saying you run in, but you being chased means you aren't interrupting the targets that need to be interrupted so the disease is still pretty useless aside from hoping it's not resisted.

You can spec 22 or 33 Mend and yes while you are getting some items like Frigs they can be useful although I'll admit I'd be specing for the heal which is worth it IMO.

My point is mainly that I think people get stuck in the mindset that this is the spec you have to spec like this to play the class effectively whereas I'm saying the class can be just as if not more effective if you spec into a line so you can use it. I personally don't see the value in positioning myself in a situation to use the insta disease that could get me killed when I have other tools that do the same job at range that are in the baseline kit. The same can't be said for the Mend line as the baseline heals are garbage so specing for them is important.

Different strokes, but don't force yourself to play a class because there's an assumed "standard" spec.
Wed 23 Sep 2020 8:16 PM by ExcretusMaximus
Kappu wrote:
Wed 23 Sep 2020 3:21 PM
I'll take a 200-280 point heal over an instant timer-based ability that puts me at risk which would potentially lose my group a fight by being unbuffed.

Ah, yes, here we have the one person in the history of the game that has never had a pet, Minstrel, single tank, or tank train reach him. He has no need to disease and kite, his positioning is perfect and he has never been caught.

Probably because he's playing so far back as to be useless, so he can pretend to be a Healer and not fulfill his role as primary interrupter.
Tue 29 Sep 2020 6:38 PM by Kappu
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Wed 23 Sep 2020 8:16 PM
Kappu wrote:
Wed 23 Sep 2020 3:21 PM
I'll take a 200-280 point heal over an instant timer-based ability that puts me at risk which would potentially lose my group a fight by being unbuffed.

Ah, yes, here we have the one person in the history of the game that has never had a pet, Minstrel, single tank, or tank train reach him. He has no need to disease and kite, his positioning is perfect and he has never been caught.

Probably because he's playing so far back as to be useless, so he can pretend to be a Healer and not fulfill his role as primary interrupter.

I mean thanks for inadequately describing the scenario... So you get out of position on a Healer then what? No different than if you play a Shaman similarly to a Pac Healer. You are one of those people who think they know how every class has to be played instead of actually trying and enjoying specs that aren't meta. I find it humorous though that you believe since a Shaman is the "primary" interruption class on mid that a PBAE Insta Disease does that job I'm guessing you never actually cast any other spell in the Subterranean spec line. I guess I could say congrats you are playing the class if you even do and are effective every 8 seconds so you can not even be concerned if you're caught out. I mean seriously the argument that 1 spell is what makes you effective on a Shaman is a pretty absurd statement.
Tue 29 Sep 2020 10:42 PM by Zocci
Kappu wrote:
Tue 29 Sep 2020 6:38 PM
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Wed 23 Sep 2020 8:16 PM
Kappu wrote:
Wed 23 Sep 2020 3:21 PM
I'll take a 200-280 point heal over an instant timer-based ability that puts me at risk which would potentially lose my group a fight by being unbuffed.

Ah, yes, here we have the one person in the history of the game that has never had a pet, Minstrel, single tank, or tank train reach him. He has no need to disease and kite, his positioning is perfect and he has never been caught.

Probably because he's playing so far back as to be useless, so he can pretend to be a Healer and not fulfill his role as primary interrupter.

I mean thanks for inadequately describing the scenario... So you get out of position on a Healer then what? No different than if you play a Shaman similarly to a Pac Healer. You are one of those people who think they know how every class has to be played instead of actually trying and enjoying specs that aren't meta. I find it humorous though that you believe since a Shaman is the "primary" interruption class on mid that a PBAE Insta Disease does that job I'm guessing you never actually cast any other spell in the Subterranean spec line. I guess I could say congrats you are playing the class if you even do and are effective every 8 seconds so you can not even be concerned if you're caught out. I mean seriously the argument that 1 spell is what makes you effective on a Shaman is a pretty absurd statement.

Do you play a shaman?

If I ever find myself in a group with a non-flatulent shaman I'll be equally surprised and disappointed.
Thankfully that has not happened even once.
Keep the gasses flowing!
(at an appropriate level, I still expect reasonable buffs)
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