Theurgist race? - Phoenix Freeshard

Is the Avalon Ian intell on this power hungry class too hard to pass?
Or the smaller more con Brit better?

Thu 18 Mar 2021 1:49 AM by ExcretusMaximus

Theurgist pets cost a percentage of total power pool, so having the higher pool of an Avalonian hurts you in cases where you're using numerical restorative items instead of percentage ones (potions and chunk vs MCL and RP).

Your call if the extra nuke damage is worth that trade-off.

Thu 18 Mar 2021 3:02 AM by gotwqqd

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Mar 2021 1:49 AM
Theurgist pets cost a percentage of total power pool, so having the higher pool of an Avalonian hurts you in cases where you're using numerical restorative items instead of percentage ones (potions and chunk vs MCL and RP).

Your call if the extra nuke damage is worth that trade-off.

I’ve read that the % was based on power pool before any increases.

Thu 18 Mar 2021 3:29 AM by easytoremember

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Mar 2021 3:02 AM
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Mar 2021 1:49 AM
Theurgist pets cost a percentage of total power pool, so having the higher pool of an Avalonian hurts you in cases where you're using numerical restorative items instead of percentage ones (potions and chunk vs MCL and RP).

Your call if the extra nuke damage is worth that trade-off.
I’ve read that the % was based on power pool before any increases.

Your base intelligence determines the base power pool. Any points at character creation, from the race, and from Augmented Acuity make that pool

Thu 18 Mar 2021 4:55 AM by ExcretusMaximus

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Mar 2021 3:02 AM
I’ve read that the % was based on power pool before any increases.

That's what it was on Live, here it's working differently.

I don't remember the exact numbers, but I remember the results: I cast one pet on my Theurg with 75 Intelligence from my gear, used MCL immediately before it reached its target, and got 33 power back; I then waited for MCL to come back and repeated the process with only 50 Intelligence, gaining only 22 power from MCL this time.

The pets are costing total power here; whether that is the intended behavior or not is another thing entirely.

Thu 18 Mar 2021 5:11 AM by gotwqqd

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Mar 2021 4:55 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Mar 2021 3:02 AM
I’ve read that the % was based on power pool before any increases.

That's what it was on Live, here it's working differently.

I don't remember the exact numbers, but I remember the results: I cast one pet on my Theurg with 75 Intelligence from my gear, used MCL immediately before it reached its target, and got 33 power back; I then waited for MCL to come back and repeated the process with only 50 Intelligence, gaining only 22 power from MCL this time.

The pets are costing total power here; whether that is the intended behavior or not is another thing entirely.

So regardless or intelligence and RA that increases power pool you will only cast same number of pets?
So it actually is beneficial from a PET CASTING view to have lower intelligence and no +power from items?
And then have the best regeneration and instant power recovery?

Thu 18 Mar 2021 8:55 AM by DJ2000

Yes and no. Same as with Paladins since the patch.
For % based spells its more "beneficial" to have as little mana pool as possible.

But the Theurgh, unlike the Paladin, also has regular value costs (CC, DD, etc.).
Which means, even though he will be able to cast the same amount of pets regardless, higher mana pool will allow him to use other spells more frequently as well.

Thu 18 Mar 2021 9:23 AM by lurker

Spells that cost a % are based on base manna pool amount anyway so they won't end up costing you more manna.

Thu 18 Mar 2021 10:06 AM by Blitze

I believe %spells calculate based on base power.

If this was not the case you would now be hearing complaints from paladins who have piety in their templates that they need to get rid off. As the lower the piety the better due to charges/regen/pots.

Thu 18 Mar 2021 12:25 PM by gotwqqd

Blitze wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Mar 2021 10:06 AM
I believe %spells calculate based on base power.

If this was not the case you would now be hearing complaints from paladins who have piety in their templates that they need to get rid off. As the lower the piety the better due to charges/regen/pots.

So what’s base power based on?

Thu 18 Mar 2021 1:54 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Since no one believes me, I made a video.

I forgot to cancel the sound though, so there's feedback and fan noise, so I'd mute it if I were you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO-sLmVvI5s

With 19 Intelligence pets cost 23 power, with 0 intelligence they cost 21 power; pets are based on total power pool.

Thu 18 Mar 2021 3:54 PM by DJ2000

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Mar 2021 1:54 PM
Since no one believes me, I made a video.

I forgot to cancel the sound though, so there's feedback and fan noise, so I'd mute it if I were you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO-sLmVvI5s

With 19 Intelligence pets cost 23 power, with 0 intelligence they cost 21 power; pets are based on total power pool.

100% correct.
i can confirm.

Thu 18 Mar 2021 6:14 PM by gotwqqd

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Mar 2021 1:54 PM
Since no one believes me, I made a video.

I forgot to cancel the sound though, so there's feedback and fan noise, so I'd mute it if I were you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO-sLmVvI5s

With 19 Intelligence pets cost 23 power, with 0 intelligence they cost 21 power; pets are based on total power pool.

So is this a test at level 1? Creation of all intell or none?
If so that doesn’t mean anything regarding increased intell through leveling, armor and RA’s
Maybe it’s true that base power is then the amount you have level 1 with race intel+creation points.
I think your “test” means little to the question
Though it could mean that low intelligence with zero creation points added to it is the best way to start a theurgist

Thu 18 Mar 2021 6:27 PM by ExcretusMaximus

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Mar 2021 6:14 PM
So is this a test at level 1? Creation of all intell or none?
If so that doesn’t mean anything regarding increased intell through leveling, armor and RA’s
Maybe it’s true that base power is then the amount you have level 1 with race intel+creation points.
I think your “test” means little to the question
Though it could mean that low intelligence with zero creation points added to it is the best way to start a theurgist

How many level one characters do you see with Raging Power 2, MCL 2, and 120 naked Dexterity?

If you're not going to pay attention, and believe your own eyes when presented with evidence, I'm not going to bother trying to help you anymore.

Thu 18 Mar 2021 11:02 PM by gotwqqd

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Mar 2021 6:27 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Mar 2021 6:14 PM
So is this a test at level 1? Creation of all intell or none?
If so that doesn’t mean anything regarding increased intell through leveling, armor and RA’s
Maybe it’s true that base power is then the amount you have level 1 with race intel+creation points.
I think your “test” means little to the question
Though it could mean that low intelligence with zero creation points added to it is the best way to start a theurgist

How many level one characters do you see with Raging Power 2, MCL 2, and 120 naked Dexterity?

If you're not going to pay attention, and believe your own eyes when presented with evidence, I'm not going to bother trying to help you anymore.

Thanks
Please keep your promise
I’d rather have no help than the type you give and the attitude that comes with it

Thu 18 Mar 2021 11:16 PM by easytoremember

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Mar 2021 6:27 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Mar 2021 6:14 PM
So is this a test at level 1? Creation of all intell or none?
If so that doesn’t mean anything regarding increased intell through leveling, armor and RA’s
Maybe it’s true that base power is then the amount you have level 1 with race intel+creation points.
I think your “test” means little to the question
Though it could mean that low intelligence with zero creation points added to it is the best way to start a theurgist

How many level one characters do you see with Raging Power 2, MCL 2, and 120 naked Dexterity?

If you're not going to pay attention, and believe your own eyes when presented with evidence, I'm not going to bother trying to help you anymore.

You got unlucky with number of INT difference being so close to 18 that it could be taken as a typo of that with the test being 0pts vs 30pts at creation, so he foregoed watching the video

Fri 19 Mar 2021 7:22 AM by Sepplord

The test shown in the video proves that the theurgist pet mana cost changes when an ITEM with Int is unequipped/equipped
So it proves that the manapool change from item-int changes pet cost
The claim that %-power cost spells use base-mana for the calculation has been falsified by Excretus' test

At that point, it doesn't matter if starting stats count into base mana or not
It is still an intresting question for theorycrafting, but for THIS THREADS question it is completely irrelevant.

Excretus gave the correct answer, from the start, as first comment and even followed up with videoproof.
Even without watching the video, how does the test has little use?

The one with the bad attitude here isn't Excretus...and anyone who knows gotwqqd's history knows that he likes to change the narrative according to his feelings and wishes instead of the facts

Fri 19 Mar 2021 8:54 AM by gotwqqd

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Mar 2021 7:22 AM
The test shown in the video proves that the theurgist pet mana cost changes when an ITEM with Int is unequipped/equipped
So it proves that the manapool change from item-int changes pet cost
The claim that %-power cost spells use base-mana for the calculation has been falsified by Excretus' test

At that point, it doesn't matter if starting stats count into base mana or not
It is still an intresting question for theorycrafting, but for THIS THREADS question it is completely irrelevant.

Excretus gave the correct answer, from the start, as first comment and even followed up with videoproof.
Even without watching the video, how does the test has little use?

The one with the bad attitude here isn't Excretus...and anyone who knows gotwqqd's history knows that he likes to change the narrative according to his feelings and wishes instead of the facts

Firstly
If you don’t know where the added intell comes from it has a huge bearing on relevance.

Not to mention there still are other factors like ethereal bond...does this add to base?
And claiming I’m changing the narrative?

Learn to read

Fri 19 Mar 2021 3:17 PM by ExcretusMaximus

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Mar 2021 8:54 AM
If you don’t know where the added intell comes from it has a huge bearing on relevance.

If only I had shown the stats page and how I added and removed the intelligence item.

Oh, wait, I did do those things...