Re: Bring back TOA without the Artiifacts/MLs

Throck wrote:
Sun 28 Mar 2021 9:16 PM
... If ToA is unnecessary then so is SI and most of the main continents that never see use. ...
Content wise, that is correct. But unlike SI, ToA introduced no new classes. Only Gear, Abilities/Mechanics and encounters.
Since the introduction of the PvP Event (xp events in general), the Main and SI zones are mostly underutilized. That used to be different.
Introducing this "emptiness" is justified how? Because other dead Zones in the Game make new dead zones fine?

Throck wrote:
Sun 28 Mar 2021 9:16 PM
My best memories of PvE are from ToA and its encounters. Are they needed for DAoC to function? Of course not. Are they desired by people I know for a fact they are.
If the Devs implement the Encounters into some sort of DS/HoH-Variant, would that not suffice? Do you need the entire barren Zone for these Encounters to exist?
You said that you can't disagree more with what i said. So tell me, what bothers you about what i said.
The fact that the encounters can be implemented in other ways?
That they could better balance the Encounters?
That the entire ToA expansion would take up Server resources?
etc.


Throck wrote:
Sun 28 Mar 2021 9:16 PM
If we are taking ToA off the table, I and many other people I have talked to, would love to see more radiable content that takes more than 30 minutes to complete and has an impact on how you gear yourself etc.
Can you elaborate on this a bit?
What exactly are you looking for?
Epic Dung. Raids do take longer than 30 mins for example.
What kind of "impact" on the Gear are you looking for? Gear to be able to "do" the Raid? Or Gear acuired by the Raid for other PvE Encounters? or Gear for RvR (aka Artifacts)?

Re: Bring back TOA without the Artiifacts/MLs

Throck wrote:
Sun 28 Mar 2021 11:06 PM
Takii wrote:
Sun 28 Mar 2021 10:23 PM
The thing you do have to keep in mind is that the data needed to populate zones on DAoC freeshards isn't actually in the client and needs to be recreated by developers to the best of their ability, so just because ToA zones exist on this server doesn't mean any of the content in the zones does (and possibly some of the server-side mechanics). Populating ToA would be a huge undertaking unless there is already a publicly available source from another freeshard that actually did this in the past.

This is available already on other freehsards through DOL. I have done all the MLs and many artifact encounters etc on them and they all worked perfectly.

That does not necessarily mean that is available widely to all DOL servers if that server had done their own implementation and didn't share it.

Re: Bring back TOA without the Artiifacts/MLs

Takii wrote:
Mon 29 Mar 2021 2:25 AM
Throck wrote:
Sun 28 Mar 2021 11:06 PM
Takii wrote:
Sun 28 Mar 2021 10:23 PM
The thing you do have to keep in mind is that the data needed to populate zones on DAoC freeshards isn't actually in the client and needs to be recreated by developers to the best of their ability, so just because ToA zones exist on this server doesn't mean any of the content in the zones does (and possibly some of the server-side mechanics). Populating ToA would be a huge undertaking unless there is already a publicly available source from another freeshard that actually did this in the past.

This is available already on other freehsards through DOL. I have done all the MLs and many artifact encounters etc on them and they all worked perfectly.

That does not necessarily mean that is available widely to all DOL servers if that server had done their own implementation and didn't share it.
Like Uthgard, Phoenix, Genesis and all others? =)

Re: Bring back TOA without the Artiifacts/MLs

I quite liked TOA as an experience in itself (not the arti grinding) but it had a too larger effect on PVP, not just in straight up game changing mechanics but widening the gap between the casual and the obsessed.

It would be nice to have it as an alternative levelling experience, or feather farming, maybe have a 2 group capped BG ML9 and a BG ML10. Maybe allow some drops but with their TOA stats stripped and others boosted to compensate?

I also think one or two abilities should be added in as RAs, perhaps one per class, for example give hero cowering bellow or climbing spikes (not an ML obvs...but an ability that ought to be in the game) for 10 RA points or something.

The thing is, anything is work for the devs and their limited time so anything they do ought to benefit as many people as possible. Gear wise and as far as accessibility is concerned we are on a pretty level playing field at the moment and perhaps outstanding balance issues are more important.
Pagan Death Cult

Re: Bring back TOA without the Artiifacts/MLs

Though i like the thought of some more content on the server it seems like alot of work to impliment 11 full zones of mobs + how many dungeons just for adding some more non-rogs to the game.

This could be done much smarter (easier) with other content though I it would be kind of cool with ToA, but really would be too much work.
Jero.

Re: Bring back TOA without the Artiifacts/MLs

I've been listening to some points made here and I agree partly with all of them.

I believe now is the time we need some new Battlegroup encounter as Sidi/Dragon/Legion have got a little stale. If it's they do open ToA then I don't see a huge issue with a new zone been added because it actually makes people explore more of DAoC. Some players may of never experienced ToA before as they left before ToA came out but it's a zone that is very fun to explore. I'm not suggesting we go back to doing Artiefact raiding, ML's etc but it would be great to have some sort of encounter there, i mean they don't have to open up the whole of ToA, maybe look at the dungeons and possibly modify that to make it raidable.

It's great they are doing stuff for 8mans but not everyone can setup and have time to do an 8man in DS/Celestius, some just want to join a big massive raid and run for a 1-2 hours and then leave. Also it looks healthy for the game to see 100+ come to these raids and I'm still getting to this day with Sidi/Legion/Dragon.

It's something to think about but if there is a possibility to bring out something new for Battlegroup raids, that would give a bit more life to those that like zerging. Even if it's a add on to Dartmoor where we have to do some sort of Dragon Campaign and kill 4 mini dragons, that was quite fun back in the day. Just don't do anything like Broadsword did with Otherworldly campaign or Dragon curse campaign as that was just carnage and the whole logic to those raids was completely chaotic and a mess.

Re: Bring back TOA without the Artiifacts/MLs

The problem with open world bg content is that there is no fixed amount of players. All encounter in any mmo with such a setting are comparatively lackluster, either you have fixed stats / abilities (as we currently do) or you have mob scaling.
Fixed stats / abilities makes it too difficult / long for small groups and just a trivial afk zerg sticking for larger groups.
Scaling is kinda weird and only really works up to a certain point.

Also implementing the toa encounter as they were would result in rather boring encounter with maybe some of the group encounter, 4.2 and most of 5 being the exceptions. Further, I don't think many people would like to relive the trauma caused by the ML 3 underwater stickfest.

Re: Bring back TOA without the Artiifacts/MLs

gruenesschaf wrote:
Fri 2 Apr 2021 3:04 PM
The problem with open world bg content is that there is no fixed amount of players. All encounter in any mmo with such a setting are comparatively lackluster, either you have fixed stats / abilities (as we currently do) or you have mob scaling.
Fixed stats / abilities makes it too difficult / long for small groups and just a trivial afk zerg sticking for larger groups.
Scaling is kinda weird and only really works up to a certain point.

Also implementing the toa encounter as they were would result in rather boring encounter with maybe some of the group encounter, 4.2 and most of 5 being the exceptions. Further, I don't think many people would like to relive the trauma caused by the ML 3 underwater stickfest.

I do understand a lot of the points you make, however, I do not think this has to be an all or nothing thing. For example, you could start by implementing one of the indoor instances, whichever you guys determine is easiest, and adjust it in some aspects. This way you could just make it a teleport to location and you have complete control over the entire zone. Make certain changes to the instance a vote, remove the trivial and tedious stuff, etc.

Re: Bring back TOA without the Artiifacts/MLs

Throck wrote:
Fri 2 Apr 2021 4:31 PM
gruenesschaf wrote:
Fri 2 Apr 2021 3:04 PM
The problem with open world bg content is that there is no fixed amount of players. All encounter in any mmo with such a setting are comparatively lackluster, either you have fixed stats / abilities (as we currently do) or you have mob scaling.
Fixed stats / abilities makes it too difficult / long for small groups and just a trivial afk zerg sticking for larger groups.
Scaling is kinda weird and only really works up to a certain point.

Also implementing the toa encounter as they were would result in rather boring encounter with maybe some of the group encounter, 4.2 and most of 5 being the exceptions. Further, I don't think many people would like to relive the trauma caused by the ML 3 underwater stickfest.

I do understand a lot of the points you make, however, I do not think this has to be an all or nothing thing. For example, you could start by implementing one of the indoor instances, whichever you guys determine is easiest, and adjust it in some aspects. This way you could just make it a teleport to location and you have complete control over the entire zone. Make certain changes to the instance a vote, remove the trivial and tedious stuff, etc.

Yep, this is on the same lines as I was suggesting above.

You don't have to implement the whole of ToA just the dungeons like ML 2 / ML 7 / ML 9 and possibly ML 10 and have a port in like Sidi with the Epic Dungeon. We just need something new for the pve side for battlegroups. I understand you see the afk side to battlegroups but not everyone does this and they do enjoy it. I think limiting new pve content to 8mans only is going to create a elite set of classes and not all classes can participate in those small pve instances.

We need to be diverse in how we approach pve content and try and make it available for everyone because there are people like us that do enjoy DAoC PvE and what it offers. It also gives us something different to do. Players want different content and to enjoy the DAoC experience and the more you offer the more enjoyable this game becomes.

The PvP event has been a success but let's look at the raiding also. I mean we could have a seasonal event with ToA if you prefer and just open it for a weekend event rather than opening it all the time where players can unlock the skins and glowing items. There is no need for stat increases or anything unless you can implement it into existing templates, where players don't need to re-template everything all over again.