Re: Supporting solos in a way benefiting everyone else too

If porting can be done right it is definitely a nice incentive. The game works well when players win some and lose some. Care should be given to encourage those players that lose more than their fair share (ie visi solo) to keep coming back to the fight.

Introducing QOL improvements at the bottom of the food chain is always a good idea for the RvR ecosystem.

Re: Supporting solos in a way benefiting everyone else too

i think this is part of the daoc experience and should not be changed. Certainly, for the individual it may be frustrating to be on the road for 10, 15 minutes only to be overrun by a group. On the other hand, the same argument could be made for groups of 8 that are on the move for minutes, only to be overrun by a zerg. Should they also get the option to quickly and easily port to another zone?!
And the number of solos also adds up, e.g. at the bridges around the spearheads (DC, Beno, Bled). If you stay there too long as a group, there will eventually be many solos - too many. Which is also part of the game experience. This would be omitted, because the solos would simply port directly from the Relic to wherever.
Same goes for levelers in the RVR areas. Right now they are atleast a bit safe because of the distance. Especially if they manage to kill the enemy, they may have some time of peace. If everyone could just port within seconds to those areas, everything would be full of stealthers or other adders killing the leveling groups more often - not so nice game experience for the leveling group, as those already cry alot in the region channel of beeing killed leveling in an rvr area.

Re: Supporting solos in a way benefiting everyone else too

wrote: While I sympathize with the plight of soloers in the game, I have to disagree with this implementation. The only thing keeping level 50s from camping relic docks is the distance. Plus, I play on Mid, and by NA time, sometimes, we don't even have a port, so if i'm getting camped at the only place I can roam out from that's pretty awful. That already happens without people being able to port out there.

Actually wouldn't it be great to find suitable action right outside your relic gate? Solos are the least dangerous to other solos :p And we all know how many 8men or smallmen roam/camp relic gates every day. Adding solos to the mix will give you more winable fights.

I think Midgard is the realm most in need of solo teleporters, especially with the realmwar being deep inside their realm very often = the Midgard solos have the longest travel time of everyone. If you don't have any port but Fensalir you can still get to 2 solo teleporters from there. (check my map : https://imgur.com/a/SfyMmpL)
Xpovoc, Jukaron, Nephamael, Lareya, Aideen, Njoro

Re: Supporting solos in a way benefiting everyone else too

wrote: I don't have an opinion about most of this, but I don't think there should be teleporters to the border keep zones; the only reason to go to those zones is to grief XPers (often greys), they don't need it made easier for them to be dicks.

i do share parts of your concern - even tho i think it will play out well in the end, here is why:

1) If someone reports a xpkiller via regionchat you will see at least 10 solos and 3 smallmen search that guy to remove him within a blink of an eye.

2) There will probably be a lot of conservative solos roaming their own solo port in areas instead of the ones in the enemy realms (a majority of solos feels more safe within their own realm). - Those will act as natural protectors to PvEers.

3) I personally regret everytime i join a rauma/fins/etc. group within a few minutes, cause the lack of PvP inc bores me to death. I only xp in the frontier to have exactly that thrill of PvP inc - and the best days xping on Phoenix are those where you have regular solo lvl50 inc trying to kill your lvlgroup - a lvl35+ lvlgroup has a very high chance to kill almost any solo lvl50 8v1 - those days give me the great feeling of Camlann/Mordred xping and make me want to xp another toon just to catch this PvP atmosphere. More solos incing your lvlgroups in the frontier will be good for winable frontier xpgroup encounters - it is the 8men/5+smallmen that roll xpgroups over and you have no chance to fight back, not the solos.

----------- ofc there is the issue with greykillers, but imo it is neglectable, simply because there will be many realmmates out to hunt these and greykillers are very rare on Phoenix.--------
Xpovoc, Jukaron, Nephamael, Lareya, Aideen, Njoro

Re: Supporting solos in a way benefiting everyone else too

I agree soloing needs a buff too, some valid points already in the thread. I think Nephamael summarized it pretty well, but i'm gonna put my subjective view here aswell, as one of the frequent mid soloers, that still boats all the way to Crauchon to get absolutely brutally murdered by SL FGA stealthers as i drop hehe.

In my post, I'm gonna refer to soloers as characters without speed 6 and stealth. and KDR as kill/death ratio.

Lets first try and summarize how the current solo playstyle is atm.

I think the current solo teleporters are completely useless. These are only worthwhile for the soloers that are already fine: Minstrel and Skald (and stealthers i guess).

I personally completely avoid taskzones and take a boat to Crauchon or Hadrian, here it is possible to find a fairfight or even a 1v2 which is still better than the alternative. However the issue is that within no time FG's/smallmen/stealthers will come after you (thanks to region chat) meanwhile that you need to make use of the hastener (WHICH IS VERY POPULATED), otherwise engaging/disengaging in combat is gonna be extremely difficult.

You will get tired of this procedure very quickly imo. Which is why it's very specific classes we usually see as soloers (Usually ones that have a chance vs a stealther) but also isn't reliant on a good engage like casters, since purge3 is free and most fights will be close to the keep and there will be tons of stealthers/adds, so you die or targets escape.). Simply horrible for a caster. You are gonna spend way too much time travelling around if you want to avoid this, and even if you increase your KDR, the amount of time you'll spend will NOT be exciting gameplay at all, and you'll most likely do terrible in terms of RP. I actually started on Phoenix as a eldritch and found it completely impossible to play solo.

Another example could be Autenn, a solo theurgist, I've personally killed this guy many times in Crauchan Gorge as a duo, and I feel bad (only a little hehe) knowing how long he spent travelling to get there, just so he can find some easy targets and good engages without adds that he crucially needs as a theurgist.

I also think one of the reasons people complain about sins is, that they don't have this travelling-issue at all, since because of VANISH (and being able to afk stealth until it's up again) are gonna spend way less time travelling compared to any other visible solo, also it's easy for them to group without speed...

I think it'd be a good and easy start if you allowed soloers to use the current smallmen teleporters (maybe even the one relic gates), at least then traveltime would be way better. NO one is really using the current solo teleporter, so I doubt it'll be a significant change except allowing more soloers to roam closer to relic gates and fewer FG's roaming bridges to find soloers, which I think is very good. It'd still be very slow without speed6, but better than now. An issue but unlikely could be mass stealthers/skald&minstrels "abusing this" solo teleporter and running to xp zones - Perhaps a teleporter that only allow soloers would be worth a test. That way you'll still have players at bridges fighting stealthers, stealth vs stealth etc. and you'll allow casters amongst other classes to finally solo again.

All in all, I don't think it's the OPTIMAL setup to force soloers to die over and over to FG's and have terrible KDR, since this means that after time, soloers will simply STOP or instead only camp beno/bled/crau, bridges/drop points and hunt ticks since it's unbearable to do anything else.


I'm personally getting tired of this "procedure". Let me hear your thoughts, especially the ones disagreeing.


-igotyaa.

Re: Supporting solos in a way benefiting everyone else too

I would welcome more benefits for solos, but i don't think mixing in arguments like "purge3 is free" or "assassins save traveltime because they can AFK for 15minutes until vanish is up" help the discussion. It just undermines the credibility of the good arguments.

Similarly hastener is not really a big issue. Needing hastener means you had a fight already that you survived. That is already a good solo run, because the real problem for soloers is getting killed by an overwhelming force. Ofcourse it still would help to have horses on shorter timer or similar, but mostly that's a secondary issue and not the primary problem during a solo-run

Re: Supporting solos in a way benefiting everyone else too

Sepplord wrote:
Thu 14 Jan 2021 7:38 AM
I would welcome more benefits for solos, but i don't think mixing in arguments like "purge3 is free" or "assassins save traveltime because they can AFK for 15minutes until vanish is up" help the discussion. It just undermines the credibility of the good arguments.

Similarly hastener is not really a big issue. Needing hastener means you had a fight already that you survived. That is already a good solo run, because the real problem for soloers is getting killed by an overwhelming force. Ofcourse it still would help to have horses on shorter timer or similar, but mostly that's a secondary issue and not the primary problem during a solo-run

And getting killed by overwhelming forces, happens way more frequently, because you're forced to roam around a crowded hastener (the ones at docks). Vanish allows stealthers to take risks unlike no other character (that has no SOS) near docks or deep into enemy territory, that itself is not a problem at all. It just makes the other soloers even more undermined imo. I agree, forget about vanish and purge.

My point is simply that you NEVER see characters like sorc/caba/sm/ench solo roam about, and you very rarely see them jump at drop points to have a solo run. This is because the current "setup" is simply extremely rough for soloers, so rough that solo casters is NOT even a thing anymore.


Do you think solo-runs are only supposed to be boats to hadrian/emain or camping at your own bridge? Also do you solo yourself? What's your experience.

Re: Supporting solos in a way benefiting everyone else too

wrote: I think it'd be a good and easy start if you allowed soloers to use the current smallmen teleporters (maybe even the one relic gates)

Some solos already skip /fair toggle /fair list and grp up simply to use the smallmen teleporters, while each of them solo at another place.

I personally think the smallmen teleporters are 2 far away from the middle keeps to be a viable alternative to the docks.

Imo giving direct access to the smallmen teleporters from relic village is a bad idea, simply because the teleporters can be points of interest instead.

They just need to be as close as Docks are to a portkeep, so the solo teleporters will generate action around themselves even before porting to the desired target location.
And at best be behind a bridge different to the docks bridge.


I suggested to generate more points of interest in the frontier than only DC/Beno/Bled+task zone. Especially during primetime this clustering of the action hurts all non-zerg content.

The question is how many more areas should there be for action and how far should they be apart from each other?

If we don't want 3 port in zones in every realm we could cluster together the port ins into the middle zones. Or we could put the solo teleporters to the opposite of the dock's side of the rivers (example: DC west docks, DC east Solo Teleporter). So there would only be 3 more points of interest. I personally think this would be not enough and there needs to be at least 1 more port in zone at the middle zones tho, especially for primetime.
And this is especially important to a realm constantly under zerg siege (currently Midgard) - with no regular access to the outer portkeep/keeps.
Xpovoc, Jukaron, Nephamael, Lareya, Aideen, Njoro

Re: Supporting solos in a way benefiting everyone else too

wrote: I actually started on Phoenix as a eldritch and found it completely impossible to play solo

Solo caster was always tough, but the HP changes (generally great for most content) hurt solo casters the most out of all classes.
Solo casters didn't get anything in return and even got their own HP-gain reduced with a post rework adjustment on HP per con for different classes.

Since then solo casters have been close to extinction.

This can be explained very easily: A solo caster was able to kill enemies pretty quick before the HP changes, but now every solo caster class has to even kite assassins, as they have round about 2k HP and you do around 300 dmg/nuke = 7 nukes +1 resist = 8 nukes to kill an assassin or 9-10 if he uses heart+healpot, if he uses a dd charge to rupt you, you can't get him lower than 70% HP before he arrives without kiting.

This pretty much made all solo casters without snare nukes or being BD/SM stop already.

Maybe putting resistrate to 0 for all (lvl50 with mof)spells for solo casters would be a fix if that's codeable?!
........

Just now with the spell/debuff rework, snare nukes vs Determination have been nerfed to a level, where the one thing you had left to win fights with = snare kiting, got taken from them. I am pretty sure, if there will be no adjustment patch here, increasing single snare nuke snare duration and keeping the rebalanced level for aoe snares, we will see the total extinction of solo casters very soon (you can't hope to kill anything anymore in any 1vx if you fight vs 1 single det tank and can't even snare kite a det tank 1v1 anymore without secondary cc).

Another major annoyance is - since visible solo got harder and harder on Phoenix your main enemies are assassins, generally favored to win against casters by class vs class balance and if you win you run into a 75% vanish rate in clean 1v1s (a caster stands away from the target when he wins, giving him a 0% chance to find a stealther after vanish).

The vanish frustration is probably gonna be the main reason for me to stop playing my solo eld, even over getting zerged. I personally think vanish is a great RA to escape adds/getting ran down, but from the other side i see it used to deny me my 1v1 wins and my 1vx kills every day.

I think there is only 1 way to fix this, it would be simply making vanish unusable in a clean 1v1. But as assassins are most of whats left of the Phoenix solo community i don't think you can find majorities to strip it from them. I can only say i don't spec it on my sins and every solo assassin i talked to said respeccing out of vanish was the best thing they ever did. Think about it solos, denying a win to the few visible enemies you have left will not make them more likely to come back to fight again.

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The whole solo caster on Phoenix thing is tho to be honest a topic for itsself and does not rly belong into this threat about solo teleporters.
Xpovoc, Jukaron, Nephamael, Lareya, Aideen, Njoro